Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Carson Palmer returning next week? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cst2006
- Start date
Bengals just gave someone a nice raise recently. I forget who. A DB? I don't know their cap situation but one has to wonder if that was sending a message to Carson and not leaving (what he deems) enough for him.
Right now, a 3rd from the 49ers, seems like a good deal for both. I don't see many teams that are so poor a the QB position that he could walk on and make them instantly better without a camp. I think it was that Bengals writer Geoff stating at the beginning that tampering rules would dramatically affect everything Carson wants to happen. In this situation it's almost sad but true.
Right now, a 3rd from the 49ers, seems like a good deal for both. I don't see many teams that are so poor a the QB position that he could walk on and make them instantly better without a camp. I think it was that Bengals writer Geoff stating at the beginning that tampering rules would dramatically affect everything Carson wants to happen. In this situation it's almost sad but true.
pittstownkiller
Footballguy
Does the teams paring down to 53 man rosters, make a decision on Palmer more likely to happen today?
It should. This is payday and Carson went right after Brown's checkbook. I think there's a roster exemption, but I don't think Carson would qualify and I don't think the NFLPA can back a guy that isn't participating. It'd be a slippery slope for them. I imagine Brown has already been through every scenario with the NFL "powers that be" to know exactly what he can do here. All Carson's rights are based upon him participating.
pittstownkiller
Footballguy
So where are we? Does Palmer just have to report and they have to welcome him back, does it force Brown to release him or have to pay him and put him on the 53?'Bri said:
Fighting Noles
Footballguy
If I was Seattle I'd be begging & pleading Mike Brown with every ounce of effort (trade/picks, etc) I could muster right now....If they haven't been already.
TJax is simply awful....And I know Palmer isn't what he once was but he is still wayyyy better an NFL QB than TJax.
TJax is simply awful....And I know Palmer isn't what he once was but he is still wayyyy better an NFL QB than TJax.
Not to get ahead of ourselves, but if that were to be the case, how big of a bump would that be for Rice and Miller in Seattle?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
A LOT!!!
But that is not actually what is happening yet. I wouldn't use it as a draft model tonight.
NJ
Footballguy
This is their final 53 man roster according to Bengals.com. Not sure what this means for Palmer???
QBS (2): Andy Dalton ®, Bruce Gradkowski (6).
WRS (6): Andre Caldwell (4), Quan Cosby (3), A.J. Green ®, Jerome Simpson (4), Jordan Shipley (2), Ryan Whalen ®.
RBS (4): Cedric Benson (7), Brian Leonard (5), Cedric Peerman (2), Bernard Scott (3).
FB (1): Chris Pressley (3).
TE (3): Colin Cochart ®, Chase Coffman (3), Jermaine Gresham (2).
OL (9): G Clint Boling ®, T Anthony Collins (4), C Kyle Cook (4), , G Otis Hudson (1), G Nate Livings (4), Dennis Roland (4), T Andre Smith (3), C Reggie Stephens (2), T Andrew Whitworth (6).
DL (8): T Geno Atkins (2), E Carlos Dunlap (2), E/T Jon Fanene (7), Robert Geathers (8), E Michael Johnson, T Domata Peko (6) E/T Frostee Rucker (6), T Pat Sims (4).
LBs (7): OLB Thomas Howard (6), OLB Brandon Johnson (6), OLB Manny Lawson (6), OLB Dontay Moch (3), MLB Rey Maualuga (3), OLB Vincent Rey (2), MLB Dan Skuta (3).
DBS (10): CB Nate Clements (11), S Chris Crocker (9), CB Leon Hall (5), CB Kelly Jennings (6), Taylor Mays (2), S Jeromy Miles (1), S Reggie Nelson (5), S Robert San6ds ®, CB Morgan Trent, S Gibril Wilson (8).
SPECIALISTS (3): LS Clark Harris (3), P Kevin Huber (3), K Mike Nugent (7).
QBS (2): Andy Dalton ®, Bruce Gradkowski (6).
WRS (6): Andre Caldwell (4), Quan Cosby (3), A.J. Green ®, Jerome Simpson (4), Jordan Shipley (2), Ryan Whalen ®.
RBS (4): Cedric Benson (7), Brian Leonard (5), Cedric Peerman (2), Bernard Scott (3).
FB (1): Chris Pressley (3).
TE (3): Colin Cochart ®, Chase Coffman (3), Jermaine Gresham (2).
OL (9): G Clint Boling ®, T Anthony Collins (4), C Kyle Cook (4), , G Otis Hudson (1), G Nate Livings (4), Dennis Roland (4), T Andre Smith (3), C Reggie Stephens (2), T Andrew Whitworth (6).
DL (8): T Geno Atkins (2), E Carlos Dunlap (2), E/T Jon Fanene (7), Robert Geathers (8), E Michael Johnson, T Domata Peko (6) E/T Frostee Rucker (6), T Pat Sims (4).
LBs (7): OLB Thomas Howard (6), OLB Brandon Johnson (6), OLB Manny Lawson (6), OLB Dontay Moch (3), MLB Rey Maualuga (3), OLB Vincent Rey (2), MLB Dan Skuta (3).
DBS (10): CB Nate Clements (11), S Chris Crocker (9), CB Leon Hall (5), CB Kelly Jennings (6), Taylor Mays (2), S Jeromy Miles (1), S Reggie Nelson (5), S Robert San6ds ®, CB Morgan Trent, S Gibril Wilson (8).
SPECIALISTS (3): LS Clark Harris (3), P Kevin Huber (3), K Mike Nugent (7).
Money got him in...he evolved to be the moron he is today due to his hard work. I hate the fact that he is from my alma mater.I could absolutely see Mike Brown doing that. He might be a Dartmouth graduate, but that dude is a moron.My prediction if Palmer shows up: he will be deactivated for every game, for the entire season. He will not be traded, nor will he play 1 down. Welcome back to Bungleland
Last edited by a moderator:
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
I really think they are going to just burn roster spot 53 with him if he reports. Perhaps they dress him as QB 3 and he carries a clip board. I do not see him playing ahead of Dalton, I really don't.
As for Palmer helping Benson, Cedric Benson would disagree (he has said so himself). I think plugging Palmer in early (without 2 injuries occurring) would probably not go well in that locker room - the leadership (Whit, Benson) haven't exactly been Carson cheerleaders this offseason.
Everyone says the Bengals should get a high pick for him. I'm hard pressed to think of a team that really would give up a 1st or 2nd rounder for him to get his bloated $11.5m salary. During the middle of last year he seemed to be a likely cap casualty if anything.
I would be intrigued to see what happens. My hope, to be honest, is that he comes in and is kept benched/inactive and away from the team. Whether a trade comes or not. It'd have to be a mega-offer to have Brown think about it I think (I believe a 1st rounder is that criteria for Brown - but perhaps not).
I totally believe Mike Brown would spend the $11.5m and have Carson sit rather than get his trade wish. I think Brown sees a bigger thing here - one that he thinks would be costly for him down the road in dealing with unhappy players. People can free to agree or not. There are plenty of examples of teams sticking fast in terms of player demands (Giants with Osi, Eagles with DeSean, amongst others) - so it's not entirely unusual stuff we have here.
The Bengals are not going to win the Luck "sweepstakes". I actually wouldn't be surprised if they traded that pick for a big package (like the ones they have turned down in the past) based on the way things turned out with their last overall #1 pick.
-QG
As for Palmer helping Benson, Cedric Benson would disagree (he has said so himself). I think plugging Palmer in early (without 2 injuries occurring) would probably not go well in that locker room - the leadership (Whit, Benson) haven't exactly been Carson cheerleaders this offseason.
Everyone says the Bengals should get a high pick for him. I'm hard pressed to think of a team that really would give up a 1st or 2nd rounder for him to get his bloated $11.5m salary. During the middle of last year he seemed to be a likely cap casualty if anything.
I would be intrigued to see what happens. My hope, to be honest, is that he comes in and is kept benched/inactive and away from the team. Whether a trade comes or not. It'd have to be a mega-offer to have Brown think about it I think (I believe a 1st rounder is that criteria for Brown - but perhaps not).
I totally believe Mike Brown would spend the $11.5m and have Carson sit rather than get his trade wish. I think Brown sees a bigger thing here - one that he thinks would be costly for him down the road in dealing with unhappy players. People can free to agree or not. There are plenty of examples of teams sticking fast in terms of player demands (Giants with Osi, Eagles with DeSean, amongst others) - so it's not entirely unusual stuff we have here.
The Bengals are not going to win the Luck "sweepstakes". I actually wouldn't be surprised if they traded that pick for a big package (like the ones they have turned down in the past) based on the way things turned out with their last overall #1 pick.
-QG
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Mike Brown getting a lot of credit as a savvy owner. 35% winning record since he owned the team, enough said.
Bruce Leroy
Footballguy
Hilarious! Palmer pulling a "Favre"
redBourne
Footballguy
That's what I was thinking. So far, I haven't been giving Palmer any grief for sitting out. Even more so after reading this article from espn. Perhaps Palmer has seen the same thing from inside the 'company'. I really wonder what Palmer would have been elsewhere. I remember sitting on my couch when he was drafted and thinking, good luck with that. I don't think Brown is going to let Palmer sit on the bench for that much money. It's a big hit to the pocket. He may force him into the starting lineup hoping for a big hit Shapiro style. Ok that was a cheap shot. From a fan (not bengals) perspective, I think cutting him from the roster is the best way to go.
Brown still gets to say "we put the best players on the field we possibly could" without having to take the cash hit. But we'll see.
Last edited by a moderator:
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
But what if they do try to put him in? Does he go in and suck on purpose or does he refuse to play?I don't think him showing up is the last step for either side.At the end of the day, Palmer's physical well-being is what he's gambling with.My prediction if Palmer shows up: he will be deactivated for every game, for the entire season. He will not be traded, nor will he play 1 down. Welcome back to Bungleland
Riffraff
Footballguy
Doubt he's that unprofessional. Just hurts his chances of ever being traded.But what if they do try to put him in? Does he go in and suck on purpose or does he refuse to play?My prediction if Palmer shows up: he will be deactivated for every game, for the entire season. He will not be traded, nor will he play 1 down. Welcome back to Bungleland
I don't think him showing up is the last step for either side.
At the end of the day, Palmer's physical well-being is what he's gambling with.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
Brown is trying to avert mutiny. It's plain and simple. And it might work.Is he facing mutiny because of his own mismanagement? Probably.But trading Palmer isn't going to resolve those underlying issues which make players want to mutiny. It will only make it worse because every player who wants out will just pull a Palmer from that point forward.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
Not so sure, myself.At this point, I could see it going Keyshawn Johnson vs. Jon Gruden. How did that ever resolve? I seem to recall Johnson being deactivated but without pay because he was being insubordinate or somesuch. If Palmer reports but won't play, can they not pay him?Doubt he's that unprofessional. Just hurts his chances of ever being traded.But what if they do try to put him in? Does he go in and suck on purpose or does he refuse to play?My prediction if Palmer shows up: he will be deactivated for every game, for the entire season. He will not be traded, nor will he play 1 down. Welcome back to Bungleland
I don't think him showing up is the last step for either side.
At the end of the day, Palmer's physical well-being is what he's gambling with.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Mutiny? Those 53 players are thanking their lucky stars that they are cashing checks right now. maybe a few of them have an attitude but Dalton/AJ/Benson...those guys are happy to get paid millions right now.
Riffraff
Footballguy
Conduct detrimental to the team = no pay and no play.Not so sure, myself.At this point, I could see it going Keyshawn Johnson vs. Jon Gruden. How did that ever resolve? I seem to recall Johnson being deactivated but without pay because he was being insubordinate or somesuch. If Palmer reports but won't play, can they not pay him?Doubt he's that unprofessional. Just hurts his chances of ever being traded.But what if they do try to put him in? Does he go in and suck on purpose or does he refuse to play?My prediction if Palmer shows up: he will be deactivated for every game, for the entire season. He will not be traded, nor will he play 1 down. Welcome back to Bungleland
I don't think him showing up is the last step for either side.
At the end of the day, Palmer's physical well-being is what he's gambling with.
redBourne
Footballguy
Can they play that card regardless? Or does Carson have some solid ground to fight with?
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
What happens if a player gets cut between now and Game 1? Do they still get their complete salary?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
MT is the Lawman round here. I think if they are on the 53 man roster and they are cut before the week 1 games are in the books they are not on the hook. I only base that on Terrell Owens not being able to sign with a team until after week 1 because nobody wants to be on the hook all season...at least that's the word on the streets, or maybe that's just fluff stuff from the agents.So if someone is on the roster tonight but say the team finds another player they like better that is cut by another team, they then can cut a player of their choosing to sign that guy and I don't think they owe the player they cut anything,
teamramrod
Footballguy
Bungles cut LeFevour today leaving them with 2 QBs on the roster. I think that means Palmer's return is a done deal.
My 2 cents
Peace
My 2 cents
Peace
Riffraff
Footballguy
He would have to do something to deserve it. Refusing to play would do it. Intentionally throwing a game would have to be proven, but the league would take action. Again, nothing he would do if he actually wanted to play for another team.Pretty sure they reduced the amount of weeks that a player can be suspended after the Keyshawn incident.
Steel Dillo
Footballguy
I think it would be funny if he came back as a starter & called nothing but running plays in the huddle just to piss Brown off.
redBourne
Footballguy
Are you sure? This article insinuates that Jarrad Page was put on IR a few years back for a heated argument with Haley. I wonder if the NFL really investigates these or not.
Last edited by a moderator:
yeah that would be like not honoring your contract and leaving your teamates hung out to dry.....oh wait.....Doubt he's that unprofessional. Just hurts his chances of ever being traded.But what if they do try to put him in? Does he go in and suck on purpose or does he refuse to play?My prediction if Palmer shows up: he will be deactivated for every game, for the entire season. He will not be traded, nor will he play 1 down. Welcome back to Bungleland
I don't think him showing up is the last step for either side.
At the end of the day, Palmer's physical well-being is what he's gambling with.
hutchins929
Footballguy
hutchins929
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
Most teams are keeping only 2 QBs this year, thanks to the elimination of the Emergency Quarterback Rule. LeFevour could be added to the Practice Squad, which would give the Bengals 3 QBs to practice with.
To the owner, maybe, but to the rest of his teammates, definitely. If he did that, the OL might forget how to block.
hutchins929
Footballguy
Catbird
Footballguy
I think people are attributing a lot of attitude and negtivity to Palmer that doesn't fit his character at all. He has been a stand up guy in the worst run tam in football for most of a decade. He always plays with all he has. When they lose he takes the wrap, when they win he applauds teammates. He calls guys out who don't give their all. Despite deteriorating talent from the arm injury, he has been all that is good (which hasn't been much) with the Bengals.
I think he had reason to believe (an understanding from Brown?) that Lewis was leaving, but when they made the playoffs in '09 and Lewis instead got re-hired, I think Palmer couldn't stand the idea of playing the rest of his career in such an awful situation. This was the only way he knew to get out. Should he have honored his contract? At some level 'Yes', but this is the only leverage a player has and everyone makes that call for themselves. Leaving the team without a starting QB was the one thing I think you can call him out on, which to me says a lot about how awful and hopeless that situation is. But trying to force a trade from a situation he couldn't live with isn't illegal and he is clearly willing to accept the consequences.
If he comes in, I have no doubt he will give it his all (he would be an idiot not to: teammate attitude can get him killed, playing at less than full speed is the best way to get hurt, teams won't take him if not productive ...). I think its just as likely he stays retired unless he can get the team to work something out. Threatening to come in and get paid is about the only leverage he has left, and if he does I have no doubt it will be 100%. That's just who he is.
I think he had reason to believe (an understanding from Brown?) that Lewis was leaving, but when they made the playoffs in '09 and Lewis instead got re-hired, I think Palmer couldn't stand the idea of playing the rest of his career in such an awful situation. This was the only way he knew to get out. Should he have honored his contract? At some level 'Yes', but this is the only leverage a player has and everyone makes that call for themselves. Leaving the team without a starting QB was the one thing I think you can call him out on, which to me says a lot about how awful and hopeless that situation is. But trying to force a trade from a situation he couldn't live with isn't illegal and he is clearly willing to accept the consequences.
If he comes in, I have no doubt he will give it his all (he would be an idiot not to: teammate attitude can get him killed, playing at less than full speed is the best way to get hurt, teams won't take him if not productive ...). I think its just as likely he stays retired unless he can get the team to work something out. Threatening to come in and get paid is about the only leverage he has left, and if he does I have no doubt it will be 100%. That's just who he is.
Captain Hook
Footballguy
I don't see any evidence that Palmer is even thinking about coming in
He knew what he was doing; sold his house; and doesn't need the money
He knew what he was doing; sold his house; and doesn't need the money
Palmer stated his case in a way that I thought many fans and opposing teams could relate to. To do some knucklehead thing like throw games or just call running plays would end his career (no team would be interested) and doesn't seem anything like the guy.
His issue made me think of Barry and it still does. I'm displeased how it's gone down. The whole process has been terrible. Brown hasn't seemed open to anything, but instead seemed like he enjoyed the idea of trapping him. I'm sure he didn't know when he would feel that he had lost for too many years, so that he signed a contract only holds 90% of the weight it should with me.
It's a little (only a little) frustrating to know that a player doesn't have any right to have a genuine opportunity to win. I'm not one of those soapbox "this is my right" types so I'd rather not go down that road. I'm not sure if another player (other than Barry or Carson) would have made me feel as such, but at some point it should be OK for the guy to simply want a chance to win.
His issue made me think of Barry and it still does. I'm displeased how it's gone down. The whole process has been terrible. Brown hasn't seemed open to anything, but instead seemed like he enjoyed the idea of trapping him. I'm sure he didn't know when he would feel that he had lost for too many years, so that he signed a contract only holds 90% of the weight it should with me.
It's a little (only a little) frustrating to know that a player doesn't have any right to have a genuine opportunity to win. I'm not one of those soapbox "this is my right" types so I'd rather not go down that road. I'm not sure if another player (other than Barry or Carson) would have made me feel as such, but at some point it should be OK for the guy to simply want a chance to win.
It's been pretty well reported in tweets that if he shows he gets 10-11 mil and that he plans to show. I agree, it doesn't seem like him. Through it all, he hasn't been about getting away with anything and he put plenty of work in for this team the last ten? years or so. It's possible his agent tried a threat that he'd show and they'd have to pay the $. Regardless, it is my opinion that Goodell should have ordered a mediator to sit down with Brown and Carson. Unlike most, I do think the fans have a right to know if their favorite player will play for their team. They're buying tickets ahead of time, it shouldn't be unheard of for them to have an idea if a star(well he is in Cincy) will be playing for them. The barebones of the NFL is that it's entertainment we pay for. Anyhow this is why I think it should be forced. Brown and Carson probably have a right to a standoff as if they're in the wild west, but those fans shouldn't have to watch too long.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Huh? what's the new rule?
[scooter]
Footballguy
In the past, teams could only activate 45 players on game day, plus a 46th player who was designated as the Emergency Quarterback.In 2011, the NFL changed that rule, allowing teams to activate 46 players at any position.
Thus, there is less incentive to keep 3 active quarterbacks on the roster. Teams would rather use that 46th spot for someone that could actually contribute to a game.
None_More_Black
Footballguy
Yeah but now a third qb can come into the game without disallowing the starter to re-enter. Running qbs now have more value. Depends on the team.
[scooter]
Footballguy
It does make sense that running QBs would have more value......but so far very few teams have decided to utilize that strategy. Only a handful of teams are keeping a running QB as their #3 (Joe Webb in Minnesota, Tim Tebow in Denver....Terrelle Pryor I suppose) but it remains to be seen if those QBs will get any playing time during the regular season.The rule change could have a significant impact on the way quarterbacks are developed in the NFL.
Sake-Bombers
Footballguy
I don't fully understand the long term implications of what's happening. Is it more than likely that Palmer ends up as QB somewhere by next year, regardless of whether or not he reports? Or is he never able to go anywhere else unless he reports to the Bengals first?
[scooter]
Footballguy
Palmer owes 4 "active" years to the Bengals. Even if he sits out for 4 years, he'll still owe the Bengals 4 more years before he can sign with another team.That's the bad news.
The good news is that if Palmer reports to the team, then Cincinnati MUST either pay him $11.5 million or cut him*. So, his best chance of resurrecting his career is to report to Cincinnati and then force Mike Brown's hand.
* edit: or trade him.
Last edited by a moderator:
