Chicago Bears 2012 Offseason Thread (1 Viewer)

[Warpig]

Why does Brandon Marshall have a 'Q' beside him on MFL? What injury is he rocking?

 

[Statcruncher]

The only thing I've heard is that Marshall missed the Wednesday practice but it was a coach's decision. I know he had a shoulder issue but assumed it wasn't an issue.

 

[RBM]

Lach probably out for rest of regular season. We are totally screwed.

Shea should be learning the position. He will never work with his hand on the ground.

I don't know if he can do either really well.

I don't know, but after watching him for 10 games, LB seems like a better spot for him.

 

[flapgreen]

Barring a miraculous turn around, this will be the 5th missed playoff in the last 6 years. Where does the end of the line begin with Lovie? You can't do much worse at missing the playoffs for that many years. I'm hoping Emery doesn't give him another free pass.

 

[Power Monster]

What a bummer all the excitement of the playoff push and this team goes in the tank in December. All this Cutler coming in being the all pro stud QB that the Bears always hungered for and now it will be yet another injury to kill another season. Just pathetic!

 

[twistd]

I think the playoff hopes are about done. I think the Bears lose next week and are tied with at least a couple of the teams chasing them. I really think the Bears win one more game. They will win either in AZ or in Detroit. What a disappointing season. I would like to see Tice fired. I don't want to hear any more of this crap about him being an offensive line genius. I think he has been a very weak OC. I don't think they will fire Lovie. I thin that Emery has to come up with at least three new offensive line starters for next year.

 

[Power Monster]

I think the playoff hopes are about done. I think the Bears lose next week and are tied with at least a couple of the teams chasing them. I really think the Bears win one more game. They will win either in AZ or in Detroit. What a disappointing season. I would like to see Tice fired. I don't want to hear any more of this crap about him being an offensive line genius. I think he has been a very weak OC. I don't think they will fire Lovie.

I agree they will not fire Lovie. The only way this Bears team gets to the elite level is if the McCaskys go away. They are clueless. No SB since 1985!!!!!!!!! I am SICK OF THE MEDIOCRITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[twistd]

What a bummer all the excitement of the playoff push and this team goes in the tank in December. All this Cutler coming in being the all pro stud QB that the Bears always hungered for and now it will be yet another injury to kill another season. Just pathetic!

I wish Tice and Emery had to play QB behind this pitiful excuse of an offensive line. Let them take a beating like Cutler has all season. Maybe they would realize the significance of the problem. I'd like to know if Emery realized how bad this o-line is before the season started. I wonder if they are going to continue with the illusion that Webb is going to be a quality starter. Left tackles are tough to find. And the Bears have blown their last two tackle picks. I hope Carimi can play guard, or he was a completely wasted pick.

 

[twistd]

I think the playoff hopes are about done. I think the Bears lose next week and are tied with at least a couple of the teams chasing them. I really think the Bears win one more game. They will win either in AZ or in Detroit. What a disappointing season. I would like to see Tice fired. I don't want to hear any more of this crap about him being an offensive line genius. I think he has been a very weak OC. I don't think they will fire Lovie.

I agree they will not fire Lovie. The only way this Bears team gets to the elite level is if the McCaskys go away. They are clueless. No SB since 1985!!!!!!!!! I am SICK OF THE MEDIOCRITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Emery did a good job bringing in Bush, Campbell, and Marshall. And then drafting Jeffrey was good. So far McClellin has shown nothing, and neither has Rodriguez. The draft doesn't look so good right now. The only player who has contributed is Jeffrey. But it really concerns me that he didn't seem to realize just how bad the o-line was. I'd like to know if there were not any free agents that he felt were any good. Or if he over-estimated the talent they currently had at the position. Maybe the draft just didn't work out for the o-line prospects they had an interest in, or if he didn't think it was a priority. Bobby Massie went right after the Bears picked Rodriguez in the fourth round. I wish we could go back and swap those picks. Cutler is probably your most valuable player. You should be doing everything you can do to protect him. They certainly haven't done that.

 

[Power Monster]

I think the playoff hopes are about done. I think the Bears lose next week and are tied with at least a couple of the teams chasing them. I really think the Bears win one more game. They will win either in AZ or in Detroit. What a disappointing season. I would like to see Tice fired. I don't want to hear any more of this crap about him being an offensive line genius. I think he has been a very weak OC. I don't think they will fire Lovie.

I agree they will not fire Lovie. The only way this Bears team gets to the elite level is if the McCaskys go away. They are clueless. No SB since 1985!!!!!!!!! I am SICK OF THE MEDIOCRITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Emery did a good job bringing in Bush, Campbell, and Marshall. And then drafting Jeffrey was good. So far McClellin has shown nothing, and neither has Rodriguez. The draft doesn't look so good right now. The only player who has contributed is Jeffrey. But it really concerns me that he didn't seem to realize just how bad the o-line was. I'd like to know if there were not any free agents that he felt were any good. Or if he over-estimated the talent they currently had at the position. Maybe the draft just didn't work out of o-line prospects, or if he didn't think it was a priority. Cutler is probably your most valuable player. You should be doing everything you can do to protect him. They certainly haven't done that.

All it is just bumbling away chances in the draft. The Bears are going out and grabbing high priced free agents to fill in the holes that their lame drafting left behind. Emery better go and get that OL fixed through the draft but they NEVER learn.All we are going to hear about is the injuries killed the Bears playoff chances AGAIN when they just sucked vs. teams with winning records this year. The beat goes on- injuries costing the Bears their season when it is not the big underlying reason as to why they cannot win a Super Bowl. The bottom line is that this team sucks at evaluating talent and THIS is why they do not rise to the elite level. With respect to the current team, I keep seeing the game highlights and Cutler is sitting in the pocket and he is throwing picks. Hester is dropping critical passes but Lovie is drinking his own Kool aide thinking hester is an NFL receiver. The defense just fell apart in late November and December is starting off even worse. Forte is not giving them the million dollar production. The ST unit is no where near what it was. The WR core is average after Marshall and Jeffery and the tight end is just bad. That stat line for Davis today was horrible. I thought the dummies drafted Olsen to fill that roll but everyone wanted to trade him to get a pass blocking TE and the pass blocking still SUCKS!This is just a fine example of the bumbling Bears where tradtion reins supreme and thousands of dummies drool over the chance to go see this mess.

 

[geoff8695]

It's been hard watching this organization squander the window of opportunity opened with the additions of Cutler and Peppers to the team.

Marshall's presence also gave us all hope for one last run at a title before Cutler's brain turns into scrambled eggs and before the defense reaches its collective expiration date.

Unfortunately, the oline is still in shambles, the defense is too old and injured, Mike Martz appears to have taken any semblance of 1st down efficiency and most of the RB pass plays with him on his way out of town, and it would appear that Brandon Marshall is about two years too late to the party.

I have no idea what to expect over the next few games; even if the Bears do make the playoffs, I believe they are most likely one and done.

However, I'm not going to lay all of that at the feet of Phil Emery.

I'll reserve judgment on Emery and give him a pass for the 2012 draft. He didn't really have time to implement all of the changes he wanted, and had to rely on the old regime's coaches and scouting reports/dept. going into last season's draft. And he didn't sit on his hands, nor did he throw money around foolishly in free agency. He addressed concerns at the offensive skill positions, and tried to foster a healthy working relationship with the staff and talent on hand, before implementing his own organizational philosophy.

We should at least give Emery credit for attempting to address several needs and integrating coaches and organizational members he inherited and was stuck with upon his arrival. That's just not an ideal situation for a new GM and he handled it with decisiveness and class. I don't think there is a GM in the NFL that could have righted all the Bears problems in 2012 given the same circumstances.

Not bad considering the hand dealt him.

Starting in 2013 and moving forward, Emery is 100% on the hook for draft and all personnel/coaching/football organization decisions. If he makes terrible decisions and draft picks from this point on with his own system and preparations then you can start warming up your tar and emptying your down pillows into a pile outside his office.

For now, I like enough of what I've seen and heard and realize that there was so much work to do going into this season (and still A LOT more to do in the coming offseason) that I don't think it's realistic to think Emery could accomplish everything by now. I hate to wait as much as the next guy - but give it some time brohans.

 

[twistd]

I think the playoff hopes are about done. I think the Bears lose next week and are tied with at least a couple of the teams chasing them. I really think the Bears win one more game. They will win either in AZ or in Detroit. What a disappointing season. I would like to see Tice fired. I don't want to hear any more of this crap about him being an offensive line genius. I think he has been a very weak OC. I don't think they will fire Lovie.

I agree they will not fire Lovie. The only way this Bears team gets to the elite level is if the McCaskys go away. They are clueless. No SB since 1985!!!!!!!!! I am SICK OF THE MEDIOCRITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Emery did a good job bringing in Bush, Campbell, and Marshall. And then drafting Jeffrey was good. So far McClellin has shown nothing, and neither has Rodriguez. The draft doesn't look so good right now. The only player who has contributed is Jeffrey. But it really concerns me that he didn't seem to realize just how bad the o-line was. I'd like to know if there were not any free agents that he felt were any good. Or if he over-estimated the talent they currently had at the position. Maybe the draft just didn't work out of o-line prospects, or if he didn't think it was a priority. Cutler is probably your most valuable player. You should be doing everything you can do to protect him. They certainly haven't done that.

All it is just bumbling away chances in the draft. The Bears are going out and grabbing high priced free agents to fill in the holes that their lame drafting left behind. Emery better go and get that OL fixed through the draft but they NEVER learn.All we are going to hear about is the injuries killed the Bears playoff chances AGAIN when they just sucked vs. teams with winning records this year. The beat goes on- injuries costing the Bears their season when it is not the big underlying reason as to why they cannot win a Super Bowl. The bottom line is that this team sucks at evaluating talent and THIS is why they do not rise to the elite level. With respect to the current team, I keep seeing the game highlights and Cutler is sitting in the pocket and he is throwing picks. Hester is dropping critical passes but Lovie is drinking his own Kool aide thinking hester is an NFL receiver. The defense just fell apart in late November and December is starting off even worse. Forte is not giving them the million dollar production. The ST unit is no where near what it was. The WR core is average after Marshall and Jeffery and the tight end is just bad. That stat line for Davis today was horrible. I thought the dummies drafted Olsen to fill that roll but everyone wanted to trade him to get a pass blocking TE and the pass blocking still SUCKS!This is just a fine example of the bumbling Bears where tradtion reins supreme and thousands of dummies drool over the chance to go see this mess.

We have seen what the Bears look like without Cutler, and it isn't pretty. Cutler looks much better with a real NFL receiver like Marshall. Jeffrey might be a solid guy too. I agree that Hester is just never going to be more than a gadget type receiver. Use him for a few bubble screens, reverses, and send him deep a few times in four wide sets. Other than that he is a liability. But Cutler isn't throwing from a clean pocket very much. And they struggle running between the tackles. I think that with even an average o-line Forte will look all-world. And Cutler will be vastly improved.I agree about Olsen. It is unfortunate that they let Martz get rid of him. But there were guys available in free agency. Tamme was out there, and so was Dreesen. Even Dallas Clark would be an improvement on who they have. Any of those guys could have been had very reasonably. What is troubling is the inability to evaluate talent. You have to believe that they thought that Spaeth, Kellen Davis, and Kyle Adams were adequate at TE. That was dead wrong. They looked at the offensive line talent and thought it was alright. That was dead wrong. I just hope these were exceptions, rather than an indication of Emery's ability to evaluate talent.

 

[twistd]

It's been hard watching this organization squander the window of opportunity opened with the additions of Cutler and Peppers to the team. Marshall's presence also gave us all hope for one last run at a title before Cutler's brain turns into scrambled eggs and before the defense reaches its collective expiration date.Unfortunately, the oline is still in shambles, the defense is too old and injured, Mike Martz appears to have taken any semblance of 1st down efficiency and most of the RB pass plays with him on his way out of town, and it would appear that Brandon Marshall is about two years too late to the party. I have no idea what to expect over the next few games; even if the Bears do make the playoffs, I believe they are most likely one and done. However, I'm not going to lay all of that at the feet of Phil Emery.I'll reserve judgment on Emery and give him a pass for the 2012 draft. He didn't really have time to implement all of the changes he wanted, and had to rely on the old regime's coaches and scouting reports/dept. going into last season's draft. And he didn't sit on his hands, nor did he throw money around foolishly in free agency. He addressed concerns at the offensive skill positions, and tried to foster a healthy working relationship with the staff and talent on hand, before implementing his own organizational philosophy. We should at least give Emery credit for attempting to address several needs and integrating coaches and organizational members he inherited and was stuck with upon his arrival. That's just not an ideal situation for a new GM and he handled it with decisiveness and class. I don't think there is a GM in the NFL that could have righted all the Bears problems in 2012 given the same circumstances.Not bad considering the hand dealt him.Starting in 2013 and moving forward, Emery is 100% on the hook for draft and all personnel/coaching/football organization decisions. If he makes terrible decisions and draft picks from this point on with his own system and preparations then you can start warming up your tar and emptying your down pillows into a pile outside his office.For now, I like enough of what I've seen and heard and realize that there was so much work to do going into this season (and still A LOT more to do in the coming offseason) that I don't think it's realistic to think Emery could accomplish everything by now. I hate to wait as much as the next guy - but give it some time brohans.

I'm willing to give him some time. I think the Marshall trade was terrific. I think that getting Campbell and Bush made sense. In hindsight, I'm not overly impressed with the draft. Jeffrey looks like he can play, but no one else has shown anything. That doesn't mean that they won't develop, but you like to see something to feel confident that you have some players.Emery had to have signed off on promoting Tice. That was a mistake. I am not sure how much opportunity he had to make changes before the season. Curious to see what, if any, changes he makes in that group in the offseason. All in all, this team is collapsing. They just aren't very good, and they are falling apart. Everyone, from the players, to the coaching staff, to the front office have to stop and take a long look at what has to change, because this is unacceptable.

 

[geoff8695]

I'm willing to give him some time. I think the Marshall trade was terrific. I think that getting Campbell and Bush made sense. In hindsight, I'm not overly impressed with the draft. Jeffrey looks like he can play, but no one else has shown anything. That doesn't mean that they won't develop, but you like to see something to feel confident that you have some players.Emery had to have signed off on promoting Tice. That was a mistake. I am not sure how much opportunity he had to make changes before the season. Curious to see what, if any, changes he makes in that group in the offseason. All in all, this team is collapsing. They just aren't very good, and they are falling apart. Everyone, from the players, to the coaching staff, to the front office have to stop and take a long look at what has to change, because this is unacceptable.

Emery's changes have been organizational and scouting and largely behind the scenes - but they (along with his high motor/work ethic) will hopefully pay dividends in talent evaluation and improving the Bears drafts moving forward. If nothing else, he's no 'yes man' and is firmly in control of football operations. That's a really good thing as far as I'm concerned.I don't think anyone was beating down the door to take over the OC position - and I think Lovie had designs on pushing Martz out in favor of Tice. Angelo and Lovie threw Martz under the bus on that one so I credit the OC debacle as an inherited trainwreck, rather than Emery's fault.Honestly, Martz is a great playcaller and would have been able to use Marshall/Jeffery and the rest of the pieces on offense a hell of a lot better than Tice IMO. Martz also was great at incorporating the RBs into the passing game and keeping on Cutler's #### about the need for maintaining solid fundamentals and mechanics rather than just relying on freakish physical talents and letting poor mechanics lead to the ball sailing on him and turning the ball over. Of course, on the negative side of the ledger - Martz didn't like Cutler calling plays, didn't implement enough designed roll outs, and was infatuated with deep drops and the long ball. However, I think Martz would have done a better job with THIS offense (and the 2012 added weapons) had he not been made the scapegoat of 2011.

 

[RBM]

Too early to kill Emery, although it is hard to believe he thought it was ok just ignoring the o line all offseason.

As for Lovie; it's been an inconsistent 8 years. I've liked him at times, didn't like him at times. I think overall I've had a positive view of him. But barring a miracle run in the playoffs, it's time to dispose of him and his staff. Bring a new coach and with that begin the transformation of this old team. The window for this defense and its current core is unfortunately closed. The offense has some promising pieces at the skill positions. We need a tight end and 5 new starters on the line.

 

[geoff8695]

Too early to kill Emery, although it is hard to believe he thought it was ok just ignoring the o line all offseason.As for Lovie; it's been an inconsistent 8 years. I've liked him at times, didn't like him at times. I think overall I've had a positive view of him. But barring a miracle run in the playoffs, it's time to dispose of him and his staff. Bring a new coach and with that begin the transformation of this old team. The window for this defense and its current core is unfortunately closed. The offense has some promising pieces at the skill positions. We need a tight end and 5 new starters on the line.

I agree that the biggest personnel issue is the o-line and the need for a legit TE, but would settle for one Tackle, one interrior lineman, and a legit TE. Then BPA with an emphasis on young talent to eventually replace aging defenders.This past offseason I was clamoring for Martellus Bennett, and was disappointed that he went to the Giants on the cheap when the Bears needed a TE who can block like an o-linemen and catch like a WR. Bennett is that guy and he signed a one year deal elsewhere. He's a FA at the end of this season, but will probably be cost-prohibitive at this point. However, he's exactly the kind of TE that the Bears need IMO. Despite the price tag, it might be worth considering.As for Lovie, I don't mind if he is allowed to finish out his contract next season. This is his defense - and some of the aging personnel are still effective in Lovie's defense for the time being. At least the team plays hard under Lovie, and if the oline situation were to improve maybe Lovie's patchwork defense can squeak out one more run at a title in 2013. It's not like the defense isn't giving them a chance to win right now. They're losing to good teams in most cases, and losing by one score or less in games with an offense failing to put up more than 1-2 TDs per game.Fix the oline, show me a TE that can both block and catch, open up the playbook where 'max protect' isn't required to have any chance of keeping Cutler upright, and I'll dare to dream again next year no matter who the head coach is...

 

[twistd]

I'm willing to give him some time. I think the Marshall trade was terrific. I think that getting Campbell and Bush made sense. In hindsight, I'm not overly impressed with the draft. Jeffrey looks like he can play, but no one else has shown anything. That doesn't mean that they won't develop, but you like to see something to feel confident that you have some players.Emery had to have signed off on promoting Tice. That was a mistake. I am not sure how much opportunity he had to make changes before the season. Curious to see what, if any, changes he makes in that group in the offseason. All in all, this team is collapsing. They just aren't very good, and they are falling apart. Everyone, from the players, to the coaching staff, to the front office have to stop and take a long look at what has to change, because this is unacceptable.

Emery's changes have been organizational and scouting and largely behind the scenes - but they (along with his high motor/work ethic) will hopefully pay dividends in talent evaluation and improving the Bears drafts moving forward. If nothing else, he's no 'yes man' and is firmly in control of football operations. That's a really good thing as far as I'm concerned.I don't think anyone was beating down the door to take over the OC position - and I think Lovie had designs on pushing Martz out in favor of Tice. Angelo and Lovie threw Martz under the bus on that one so I credit the OC debacle as an inherited trainwreck, rather than Emery's fault.Honestly, Martz is a great playcaller and would have been able to use Marshall/Jeffery and the rest of the pieces on offense a hell of a lot better than Tice IMO. Martz also was great at incorporating the RBs into the passing game and keeping on Cutler's #### about the need for maintaining solid fundamentals and mechanics rather than just relying on freakish physical talents and letting poor mechanics lead to the ball sailing on him and turning the ball over. Of course, on the negative side of the ledger - Martz didn't like Cutler calling plays, didn't implement enough designed roll outs, and was infatuated with deep drops and the long ball. However, I think Martz would have done a better job with THIS offense (and the 2012 added weapons) had he not been made the scapegoat of 2011.

I couldn't disagree more about Martz. I think Martz is one of he most over-rated coaches who ever coached in the NFL. IF you noticed, his system never worked in any place except St Louis. I think the system succeeded, not because Martz was so brilliant, but because he had Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce and Kurt Warner in St Louis, coupled with a really good offensive line. In each of his stops Martz never tried to adjust the offense to the talent he had, he insisted on trying to force the talent in to his system. The Bears players didn't fit the system at all, but Martz insisted on forcing the system on that group of players. The most successful teams now are heavily utilizing their TEs. Athletic TEs are having great success in the NFL. Martz had no use for the TE. The best teams are able to adjust calls at the line of scrimmage. Martz didn't allow that. If Martz was a truly great offensive mind he would have had the flexibility to create around the talent he had. Martz couldn't do that. Bill Walsh was a great offensive mind. Lots of teams have played some version of the West Coast offense. No one except Martz ever tried playing his scheme. That should tell you something. The NFL is a copycat league. If the system worked, more teams would do it. Martz got very lucky that he happened to have an exceptional group of players in St Louis that made him look really good. If Martz was still in Chicago things would be worse than they already are. Tice is not very good, but Martz would be no improvement.In contrast, look at how Shanahan has adjusted the Redskins offense to fit RGIII. That is the sign of a really talented coach. He adopts a system that takes advantage of what his players do well.

 

[geoff8695]

I couldn't disagree more about Martz. I think Martz is one of he most over-rated coaches who ever coached in the NFL. IF you noticed, his system never worked in any place except St Louis. I think the system succeeded, not because Martz was so brilliant, but because he had Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce and Kurt Warner in St Louis, coupled with a really good offensive line. In each of his stops Martz never tried to adjust the offense to the talent he had, he insisted on trying to force the talent in to his system. The Bears players didn't fit the system at all, but Martz insisted on forcing the system on that group of players. The most successful teams now are heavily utilizing their TEs. Athletic TEs are having great success in the NFL. Martz had no use for the TE. The best teams are able to adjust calls at the line of scrimmage. Martz didn't allow that. If Martz was a truly great offensive mind he would have had the flexibility to create around the talent he had. Martz couldn't do that. Bill Walsh was a great offensive mind. Lots of teams have played some version of the West Coast offense. No one except Martz ever tried playing his scheme. That should tell you something. The NFL is a copycat league. If the system worked, more teams would do it. Martz got very lucky that he happened to have an exceptional group of players in St Louis that made him look really good. If Martz was still in Chicago things would be worse than they already are. Tice is not very good, but Martz would be no improvement.In contrast, look at how Shanahan has adjusted the Redskins offense to fit RGIII. That is the sign of a really talented coach. He adopts a system that takes advantage of what his players do well.

There are nuances to the NFL game, game planning, and matchups that Martz was able to identify and exploit far better than Tice. Keep in mind that with Marshall and Jeffery, Tice has FAR superior talent at the skill positions than Martz did, yet Martz was able to get more out of Cutler, Forte, and greater offensive efficiency on the whole. Martz's use of Kellen Davis in the red zone had many of you fooled into thinking that he would be a breakout TE in 2012.How is that working out?I won't deny Martz's arrogance or his lack of emphasizing the TE, but if you look at his ability to call a game, the efficiency of the Bears offenses under Martz vs. under Tice, his willingness to bust Cutler's balls to work on proper mechanics and fundamentals, and his creativity in making use of the paltry talent that the Bears possessed - then you just might find a little more respect for the lemonade he created out of the lemons handed to him on the oline and skill positions.I'm not saying that Martz is Bill Walsh, but you have to put things in their proper context. Two years ago absolutely NO ONE wanted the Bears OC position. They had to dig deep and were fortunate just to come up with Martz, who was desperate for a chance to continue coaching in the NFL.Tice is a downgrade.

 

[flapgreen]

I couldn't disagree more about Martz. I think Martz is one of he most over-rated coaches who ever coached in the NFL. IF you noticed, his system never worked in any place except St Louis. I think the system succeeded, not because Martz was so brilliant, but because he had Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce and Kurt Warner in St Louis, coupled with a really good offensive line. In each of his stops Martz never tried to adjust the offense to the talent he had, he insisted on trying to force the talent in to his system. The Bears players didn't fit the system at all, but Martz insisted on forcing the system on that group of players. The most successful teams now are heavily utilizing their TEs. Athletic TEs are having great success in the NFL. Martz had no use for the TE. The best teams are able to adjust calls at the line of scrimmage. Martz didn't allow that. If Martz was a truly great offensive mind he would have had the flexibility to create around the talent he had. Martz couldn't do that.

Bill Walsh was a great offensive mind. Lots of teams have played some version of the West Coast offense. No one except Martz ever tried playing his scheme. That should tell you something. The NFL is a copycat league. If the system worked, more teams would do it. Martz got very lucky that he happened to have an exceptional group of players in St Louis that made him look really good. If Martz was still in Chicago things would be worse than they already are. Tice is not very good, but Martz would be no improvement.

In contrast, look at how Shanahan has adjusted the Redskins offense to fit RGIII. That is the sign of a really talented coach. He adopts a system that takes advantage of what his players do well.

There are nuances to the NFL game, game planning, and matchups that Martz was able to identify and exploit far better than Tice. Keep in mind that with Marshall and Jeffery, Tice has FAR superior talent at the skill positions than Martz did, yet Martz was able to get more out of Cutler, Forte, and greater offensive efficiency on the whole. Martz's use of Kellen Davis in the red zone had many of you fooled into thinking that he would be a breakout TE in 2012.How is that working out?

I won't deny Martz's arrogance or his lack of emphasizing the TE, but if you look at his ability to call a game, the efficiency of the Bears offenses under Martz vs. under Tice, his willingness to bust Cutler's balls to work on proper mechanics and fundamentals, and his creativity in making use of the paltry talent that the Bears possessed - then you just might find a little more respect for the lemonade he created out of the lemons handed to him on the oline and skill positions.

I'm not saying that Martz is Bill Walsh, but you have to put things in their proper context. Two years ago absolutely NO ONE wanted the Bears OC position. They had to dig deep and were fortunate just to come up with Martz, who was desperate for a chance to continue coaching in the NFL.

Tice is a downgrade.

This part is definitely true. Practically had to beg for anyone to take it. It was pathetic.The rest, I mostly disagree with. Davis is a bum. I think most already knew that. Lord knows I did. Martz almost got Cutler murdered numerous times. He's awful and has no place in today's NFL, probably why he retired. Tice is far below average as well, something that many of us knew as well.

 

[flapgreen]

Are we really giving Emery a pass for not getting an upgrade at probably the most important position? Screw him for thinking Webb was acceptable.Hard to even post about it anymore.

 

[flapgreen]

OL: After watching practice today, i'm not worried about the OL...seriously. Gabe Carimi looked like a stud in the 1 on 1 drills and looked solid throughout all of practice. He's our starting RT despite Chris Williams getting some time over there today. Webb looked good at LT...I was shocked. I only saw one play all day where he got beat and it was by Julius Peppers(then again Peppers is one of the best DE's in the NFL). RG Lance Louis looks huge...listed at 320. Spencer played better than I thought at LG...i'm cheering for Chilo Rachel/Edwin Williams to break into the starting lineup. Chris Williams got beat bad two plays in a row at RT...then again it was his first day at RT all camp. James Brown looked solid at RT and should make the roster...great UFA pickup. Overall, I feel much better about the OL than I thought entering today.

Notice Benson hasn't been on in months. Big Shocker!!!

 

[ditka311]

I agree that the OLine needs help but I give Emery a pass on that. Maybe I am overlooking the deep FA pool or numerous amounts of All Pro tackles available at the Bears' draft position this year. I think there was limited opportunity to address this position this year.

Emery came in and fixed some of the major holes in this team. Primarily the lack of a #1 WR and a #2 WR and a decent backup QB. It's pretty much impossible to fill every hole in one offseason. That said, there are some good OL free agents this year and maybe they can snag one of them. At the same time, there are going to be some major gaps to fill on the defensive side of the ball, primarily at LB.

 

[flapgreen]

I agree that the OLine needs help but I give Emery a pass on that. Maybe I am overlooking the deep FA pool or numerous amounts of All Pro tackles available at the Bears' draft position this year. I think there was limited opportunity to address this position this year. Emery came in and fixed some of the major holes in this team. Primarily the lack of a #1 WR and a #2 WR and a decent backup QB. It's pretty much impossible to fill every hole in one offseason. That said, there are some good OL free agents this year and maybe they can snag one of them. At the same time, there are going to be some major gaps to fill on the defensive side of the ball, primarily at LB.

I agree with most of this. I know Emery couldn't come in and ignore Lovie and Tice's opinion and do whatever ge liked at the very beginning. He gave Lovie and Tice their chance and they blew it, if things continue in this direction. I hope the McClellin pick works out, but that isn't looking good so far either. Jones was the obvious pick at that position, if they were going DE. Look who drafted him. Such a disappointing year.

 

[Power Monster]

Some great discussion here.

As crazy as it is- the packer game is obviously huge for a number of reasons. A win on Sunday will wash away a lot of the frustration. It looks bleak with the current failures and the injuries but this is about as desperate as it gets. A loss at home to the Packers would be horrible. A win would be redeption for Lovie and the team. This game is going to land on Cutler, Forte, the OL and the offensive game plan. It would be beyond hopeless to see a key player get hurt in this game or even a missed field goal by the Bears. No more injury excuses.

 

[mbuehner]

Here's the thing- I think Lovie can be a good coach... with a lot of help. He needs a strong GM to evaluate talent, especially offensively, because he is a guy that believes in his guys. That can be a good thing, it gets his guys to play their hearts out for him generally. But obviously it can't make up for talent. I think Emery might be the kind of true GM that gives a coach like Smith the players EMERY knows he needs (I hope so)... even given this rough first season. I agree with Flap that if he was going to retain Lovie and his staff, he pretty much had to put faith in their evaluations.

But now that trust has been let down, so its time for Emery to step up and next season craft the team by his own best judgement. Now that COULD mean Lovie is retained... there are going to be a crap ton of teams looking for coaches this offseason and not a lot of prime talent to bid for. If Tice is tossed and somebody else brought in as OC with some a more modern offense in mind, I think Lovie can concentrate on his defense and be alright. That could well be a better bet than some second or third tier HC choice... at least for a year. I'm not a Lovie apologist, but there are a LOT of head coaches being run out of their towns, and lot of them for far worse sins than Lovie's. He hasn't been drafting the last 6 or 7 years after all.

 

[flapgreen]

Geez, Gould to IR.

 

[flapgreen]

And Steltz.

 

[Statcruncher]

Goodell need to look at limiting the amount of pre-game warmups that teams can have. I'm so tired of seeing healthy players cut-down during these needless activities.

 

[flapgreen]

Well there goes that.

 

[RBM]

Pathetic. Teams are pretty similar too. One giant, glaring difference. I cannot stress how enormous the one difference is.

Cutler is not even on Rodgers planet. Difference has always been apparent...but today it was so glaring. As long as Bears-Pack is about Cutler vs Rodgers....we have no shot.

 

[twistd]

I haven't had a strong feeling about Lovie. At this point I think you need to clean house. This is a bad team, and they need a change. Lovie is exceptional at excuses, not much else.

 

[flapgreen]

Urlacher hammering fans for booing at the game. Not a good look on you, Brian.

 

[RBM]

Urlacher hammering fans for booing at the game. Not a good look on you, Brian.

Idiotic comments. Said they were the only team in the division to get booed by their own fans a week after the Vikings fans booed Ponder all day long against us.

 

[flapgreen]

Went to Bears camp today, here are my thoughts.QB: Cutler looks good. A few throws were off, but otherwise pretty solid. It was nice to see him look off the safety and then hit Marshall up the seam for a TD. Jason Campbell looks pretty good as well. It's very reassuring to see a quality backup QB, he can help develop those young weapons. RB: Forte looks cut and a little bigger, however just as athletic. Could be in the best shape of his career. Michael Bush is big...he goes into the line and can move the pile. He's also much more athletic than i've seen and could envision lots of receptions for him as well. Kahil Bell looks solid and will make a good 3rd RB. Lorenzo Booker/Armando Allen have little chance to make the team.TE: Wow how things have changed in a year. The TE's are being used and often. Kellen Davis is big and athletic, he was lost in Martz's offense but not in this one. He displayed good hands, has a large catch radius, and good after the catch. Evan Rodriguez was surprising as well. He got many looks and is athletic...really reminds me of a poor mans Aaron Hernandez. Quicker twitch TE with good hands. Spaeth is still a solid blocker and Kyle Adams has an outside chance of making the team.WR: It's just so different to have a WR like this in Chicago. Marshall is literally never covered. The one thing that impressed me about Marshall is that he's not only good, but he's a hard worker. He went 100% all the time, I wasn't expecting that type of work ethic. Devin Hester lined up as the other starter and he looks quick/smooth/fast/athletic as well...did have an easy drop in Skelly though. Alshon Jeffery disappointed me today, I had high expectations and perhaps they were too high. He just didn't seem to put in a ton of effort. He doesn't look heavy or slow...I just didn't see high effort(maybe it's because Marshall puts in so much effort). Earl Bennett looks pretty good and healthy. Devin Thomas impressed me...athletic kid. Eric Weems didn't practice. Dane Sanzenbacher does everything right and looks smooth, but he's just small and not elite.OL: After watching practice today, i'm not worried about the OL...seriously. Gabe Carimi looked like a stud in the 1 on 1 drills and looked solid throughout all of practice. He's our starting RT despite Chris Williams getting some time over there today. Webb looked good at LT...I was shocked. I only saw one play all day where he got beat and it was by Julius Peppers(then again Peppers is one of the best DE's in the NFL). RG Lance Louis looks huge...listed at 320. Spencer played better than I thought at LG...i'm cheering for Chilo Rachel/Edwin Williams to break into the starting lineup. Chris Williams got beat bad two plays in a row at RT...then again it was his first day at RT all camp. James Brown looked solid at RT and should make the roster...great UFA pickup. Overall, I feel much better about the OL than I thought entering today.DL: Peppers is a huge human being and shouldn't be that athletic. The one play he made Webb look bad, he literally tossed him like a rag doll. Izzy looked very average and thinner than in years past. Shea McClellin has a high motor and flashed some athletic ability...however he looks very raw and doesn't look like a first round pick right now. I was very very very impressed with Corey Wootton today. He looks fully recovered from the knee injuries(in fact I asked him after practice and he said he feels great) and appears bigger than Julius Peppers. He is quick off the edge and strong against the run. He made Chris Williams look like a rookie in 1 on 1's. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if he ended up a starter opposite Peppers. Stephen Paea looks like a whole new person on the field, super quick and strong. One play I saw him toss an OL, another I saw him burn by him with his quickness. Henry Melton is very quick in person as well...he might've gained a little weight in the offseason. Matt Toenia is a run stuff and offers nothing in terms of pass rush. Brian Price didn't look great today, hopefully he can get in the flow soon.LB: Urlacher didn't practice so Roach played MLB. I didn't really focus on the LB's so I can't comment.DB: Tim Jennings looks much improved from last season...better shape and possibly stronger. Seems confident as well. Didn't see Tillman a whole lot. The CB that really impressed me was Kelvin Hayden. He looks healthy and made plays. Larger size and was making plays today. Rookie Greg McCoy looked athletic as well. Didn't see much from the Safety position, but Brandon Hardin looks legit. He is very athletic and huge. He made a couple of interceptions and could contribute this season on defense.Overall, I think this is a playoff team because it's much improved. I also came away today thinking the team has more depth than in past seasons, which gives a sense of comfort in case injuries pop up.

No wonder you like Daryl Drake so much. You two know about the same amount about football. Where you been, brah? Come back!!!

 

[flapgreen]

But find me something that shows me WHY he's a good coach, instead of giving me reasons why he wasn't able to succeed. We're all held accountable, at least most of us, for how we perform on our jobs. What single wide receiver has Drake made better? You won't find anything significant. I promise you that. Whether you be like him or not, the guy isn't a very good coach. On an already mediocre staff, he's dead weight. Spin things a thousand different ways, but thep part of the team he is in charge hasn't done well. Simple as that.

Johnny Knox. 5th round pick developed into an almost 1,000 yard WR...Drake made him better.

I think Flap has a point. Knox is a decent receiver, but the Bears have not had a 1000 yard receiver since 2002. If you are a receiver coach, and year after year your group is mediocre, at some point you have to take some responsibility for it. We have to hope that he can do a better job with this group of receivers. This certainly seems to be the best core of talent that the Bears have had in many years. If they struggle now he needs to be fired.

Chicago hasn't had a Good QB and a #1 WR since...Kramer to Conway??? I don't think it's fair to throw the builder under the bus when he has to use rotten wood to build a home.If after this year all the WRs are terrible...then yes it's Drake's fault.

They won't be terrible, just not as good as they could be. Brandon Marshall will never be terrible. I'm hoping Bates will have enough control to overcome Drake's immense deficiencies.

Sadly, it didn't happen.

 

[flapgreen]

If the Bears would've addressed OL in the first four rounds, I'd admit my reaction to the McCellin pick was over board. That hasn't happened, though. And there were so many guys there in rounds 3 and 4 to do so. Instead, we decided to make 2 very questionable picks on guys who weren't even very successful at their own positions in college.

Pretty much...

As usual, Lovie will get questioned about the OL for the entire offseason. Happens every year. Wonder why, Lovie?

This time, he won't be around to be questioned about it. Thank God!

Tice: "Devin is going to be on the field. If he’s not on the field, then they should fire me.’’Don't worry, ticket thief. You will more likely get hammered due to the OL, but I wouldn't count out anything.

Sup, Tice?

Ugh... not again. Why must the team always look to expand his role? Seems obvious he should have a limited role on offense as a WR3 or WR4 type and then serve as the team's return specialist.

(TheHuddle) Chicago Bears WR Devin Hester is expected to have a more significant role in the offense this season because the team plans to use him in a variety of ways.Analysis: This is the diametric opposite of earlier talk out of Chicago that suggested Hester will be limited to specific packages. The Bears certainly have more talent at wide receiver than in years past, and if Matt Forte holds out they'll be forced to throw more which would likely give Hester a larger role. There's no question Hester is a playmaker with the ball in his hands, but as it stands there doesn't look to be enough of those opportunities in Chicago to significantly expand his fantasy value.

We all see how that worked out...again.

 

[flapgreen]

Another note: I think we need to make the distinction between liking a player and liking a pick. I don't mind Shea as a player but I think the pick is terrible.

If he puts on 15 pounds and grows 3 inches, I like the pick.

He's the same size as Mercilus...is he too small?

Not to play lb, which is what Mercilus is doing. Wrong again, Benny. Time for you to disappear for a year.

 

[KCitons]

I'm not sure which is worse. Being wrong about a prediction and having Flapgreen call you out 4 months later. Or being Flapgreen and responding to your own comments 8 months later.

 

[flapgreen]

I'm not sure which is worse. Being wrong about a prediction and having Flapgreen call you out 4 months later. Or being Flapgreen and responding to your own comments 8 months later.

Or people calling me out for being overly critical of the team and then getting bothered by me bumping some of those posts. It goes both ways, guy. Notice I only called out Benson because he's the guy who calls others out and then disappears for months until he thinks everyone forgot about it. I didn't bump abother person's post in this thread who called me out for being critical of the team's decisions , but I could have.

 

[KCitons]

I'm not sure which is worse. Being wrong about a prediction and having Flapgreen call you out 4 months later. Or being Flapgreen and responding to your own comments 8 months later.

Or people calling me out for being overly critical of the team and then getting bothered by me bumping some of those posts. It goes both ways, guy. Notice I only called out Benson because he's the guy who calls others out and then disappears for months until he thinks everyone forgot about it. I didn't bump abother person's post in this thread who called me out for being critical of the team's decisions , but I could have.

Call him out all you want. But what's the purpose of quoting yourself. That smacks of desperation. Look at me!! Look at me!!! I was right once on a message board.

 

[flapgreen]

I'm not sure which is worse. Being wrong about a prediction and having Flapgreen call you out 4 months later. Or being Flapgreen and responding to your own comments 8 months later.

Or people calling me out for being overly critical of the team and then getting bothered by me bumping some of those posts. It goes both ways, guy. Notice I only called out Benson because he's the guy who calls others out and then disappears for months until he thinks everyone forgot about it. I didn't bump abother person's post in this thread who called me out for being critical of the team's decisions , but I could have.

Call him out all you want. But what's the purpose of quoting yourself. That smacks of desperation. Look at me!! Look at me!!! I was right once on a message board.

lol. Ok. I'm so desperate. It's a messageboard. I can bump all of the posts I like. What does it matter to you, enough to spend the time to respond, apparently. Your only posts in here are responses to me.Eta: btw, I'm usually right. Hth

 

[Statcruncher]

You need a new keyboard after that flapgreen? The problem is you constantly pump out ridiculously gloomy comments about everything all the time. I know you probably don't understand it, but to many people you're nothing but white noise. Your complaints are so constant and relentless that whatever insight or valid points you have get flushed because no one wants to wade through the volume of crap your keyboard produces. Coupled with your smug delivery it's pretty annoying. I'm doing myself a favor and blocking you. I'd rather read Sabertooth's and sho nuff's stuff than yours.

 

[flapgreen]

We're both better off for it. If you're going to be bothered by some random dude on messageboard, block me and forget about it.

 

[sho nuff]

You need a new keyboard after that flapgreen? The problem is you constantly pump out ridiculously gloomy comments about everything all the time. I know you probably don't understand it, but to many people you're nothing but white noise. Your complaints are so constant and relentless that whatever insight or valid points you have get flushed because no one wants to wade through the volume of crap your keyboard produces. Coupled with your smug delivery it's pretty annoying. I'm doing myself a favor and blocking you. I'd rather read Sabertooth's and sho nuff's stuff than yours.

Wow...thats low....to flap.Hey may be negative...but it seems there is a legit reason as his posts have generally been spot on in his criticism.

 

[Statcruncher]

Wow...thats low....to flap.Hey may be negative...but it seems there is a legit reason as his posts have generally been spot on in his criticism.

Ugh, did you do this just to make me read some of his old posts? Of course some of his criticisms are accurate, when you spew opinions constantly you'll hit on some. I randomly picked 2 pages in this thread and pull these quotes, wonder why he didn't bump these.

Don't forget Wootton was hurt in college and during each of his first two seasons in the league. He appears to be dead weight at this point. I doubt he will make the team this season.

Trade down and take Alshon? Are you nuts? No way should that turd be our first pick. That guy is trouble and everyone knows it. The Bears will never go for him. He's more of a Jets type guy. Bears would be much better off going for Sanu or Martin, if they're available in the 2nd.

 

[sho nuff]

Wow...thats low....to flap.Hey may be negative...but it seems there is a legit reason as his posts have generally been spot on in his criticism.

Ugh, did you do this just to make me read some of his old posts? Of course some of his criticisms are accurate, when you spew opinions constantly you'll hit on some. I randomly picked 2 pages in this thread and pull these quotes, wonder why he didn't bump these.

Don't forget Wootton was hurt in college and during each of his first two seasons in the league. He appears to be dead weight at this point. I doubt he will make the team this season.

Trade down and take Alshon? Are you nuts? No way should that turd be our first pick. That guy is trouble and everyone knows it. The Bears will never go for him. He's more of a Jets type guy. Bears would be much better off going for Sanu or Martin, if they're available in the 2nd.

Not sure why you would bump the last one.Alshon surely has not proven he is anything great at this point.

 

[Statcruncher]

His quote "The Bears will never go for him" seems like it might have been a miss since they drafted him.

 

[Almas_4th_Child]

Wow...thats low....to flap.Hey may be negative...but it seems there is a legit reason as his posts have generally been spot on in his criticism.

Ugh, did you do this just to make me read some of his old posts? Of course some of his criticisms are accurate, when you spew opinions constantly you'll hit on some. I randomly picked 2 pages in this thread and pull these quotes, wonder why he didn't bump these.

Don't forget Wootton was hurt in college and during each of his first two seasons in the league. He appears to be dead weight at this point. I doubt he will make the team this season.

Trade down and take Alshon? Are you nuts? No way should that turd be our first pick. That guy is trouble and everyone knows it. The Bears will never go for him. He's more of a Jets type guy. Bears would be much better off going for Sanu or Martin, if they're available in the 2nd.

Not sure why you would bump the last one.Alshon surely has not proven he is anything great at this point.

Not sure why you continually enter a Bears thread only to egg on/make fun of a user when they're wrong/make fun of a team when they're wrong. Do you really get you thrills in life seeking attention in such a way? Sad sad world you live in.He's better than a "turd". Sure he had some PI calls, but he's played well thus far and that's with two injuries, plus being a rookie.

 

[flapgreen]

Wow...thats low....to flap.Hey may be negative...but it seems there is a legit reason as his posts have generally been spot on in his criticism.

Ugh, did you do this just to make me read some of his old posts? Of course some of his criticisms are accurate, when you spew opinions constantly you'll hit on some. I randomly picked 2 pages in this thread and pull these quotes, wonder why he didn't bump these.

Don't forget Wootton was hurt in college and during each of his first two seasons in the league. He appears to be dead weight at this point. I doubt he will make the team this season.

Trade down and take Alshon? Are you nuts? No way should that turd be our first pick. That guy is trouble and everyone knows it. The Bears will never go for him. He's more of a Jets type guy. Bears would be much better off going for Sanu or Martin, if they're available in the 2nd.

Not sure why you would bump the last one.Alshon surely has not proven he is anything great at this point.

The jury is still out on Alshon, but he's performed much better than I thought he would so far. Enough to take him in the first? Nope. He's been hurt for half of the season.Wooten has managed to stay healthy for most of this season, but has been very mediocre since the first few weeks, but not "dead weight" when he's actually on the field. If he can stay healthy, he will likely be the starter. My negativity is well documented in here, Sho. Obviously, I'm aware of it. It's difficult not to be when you get hammered by the Packers every year. Emery seems to be turning things around, though. Lovie, Tice, and a lack of talent is the problem at this point. The defense will slowly be transitioning to younger players soon. If they're going to make a change at headcoach, the time is now.

 

[flapgreen]

His quote "The Bears will never go for him" seems like it might have been a miss since they drafted him.

Yep. Stat> hi!!!!!!