What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Chicago Public Schools & Rahm Emmanuel have gone insane (1 Viewer)

rockaction

Footballguy
The thing is, a diploma can be whatever each State decides they want it to be. 
I'm not entirely sure of that though you have experience in the field. Considering the extensive entanglement of the federal constitution and public education law, I'm pretty sure that the 14th Amendment would run contra to any such statement you make, especially given the nature of compulsory education until the age of sixteen. I'd imagine there are state courts, district courts, and federal courts that would have say in this both according to state charters and federal charters, and that this type of thing will fail miserably at the state level. Again, there are others on the board more skilled than I, but I immediately wonder what is up with this proposal.  

But it's sort of just a gut feeling.  

 

Quez

Footballguy
I guess these kids are going to have to hurry up and find some chump to front them college tuition if they want a diploma.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ilov80s

Footballguy
I'm not entirely sure of that though you have experience in the field. Considering the extensive entanglement of the federal constitution and public education law, I'm pretty sure that the 14th Amendment would run contra to any such statement you make, especially given the nature of compulsory education until the age of sixteen. I'd imagine there are state courts, district courts, and federal courts that would have say in this both according to state charters and federal charters, and that this type of thing will fail miserably at the state level. Again, there are others on the board more skilled than I, but I immediately wonder what is up with this proposal.  

But it's sort of just a gut feeling.  
I am certainly no legal expert. Just look at the graduation requirements across the States. Graduating from Michigan doesn't mean the same as graduating from Colorado. In Michigan, students must take Alg 1, Alg 2, Geometry, a 4th math class, Chemistry, Physics, Biology, 4 years of English, US History, World History, Econ, Govt, 2 years of foreign language, Gym, computer classes. In Colorado, the only State required grad requirement is 0.5 credits of government. Then there is Georgia that has 4 different tracks to a diploma.  Some States have special honors diplomas. 

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
The obvious reason behind this is to absolve the city school system from responsibility to ensure basic literacy, mathematical competence, or any life skills.

"Little Johnny told us he was going to Chicago City College, if he can't read it's their fault."
False. However, there is an interesting angle to this. In a neighboring district, there was a student with a disability. The mom was very very aggressive in advocating for her child. Anyway, flash forward a few years after the kid is done with school and the mom is now trying to sue the district because she claims her kid has no employable skills. 

 

Juxtatarot

Footballguy
So a kid has to get an acceptance letter to a community college (how hard can that be?) but not go. This hardly seems like something to be concerned about.

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
So a kid has to get an acceptance letter to a community college (how hard can that be?) but not go. This hardly seems like something to be concerned about.
Especially considering most schools have reps from colleges come and visit high schools regularly. Many will do on-site admissions. A kid can do this during the school day. 

 

RedmondLonghorn

Footballguy
They don't have to actually attend college or anything. They just need an acceptance letter. It's not hard to get an acceptance letter to community college. 
Which is a great argument against this rule. 

It just creates a bureaucratic process that is mostly a sham, with dubious goals.

 

David Dodds

Administrator
The high schools where I live in CA have a requirement to complete 40 hours of community service your senior year to get a diploma.  30-40% of the kids fake it by knowing someone who can lie for them.  The smart move these days is just getting the GED with a few months to go and using that time to prep hard for the SAT.  

 

RedmondLonghorn

Footballguy
Or, their intentions are as stated in the article.
You're right. Allow me to amend my statement.

It just creates a bureaucratic process that is mostly a sham, with dubious chances to have the intended effect and a near certainty to have some negative unintended consequences.

 

Juxtatarot

Footballguy
You're right. Allow me to amend my statement.

It just creates a bureaucratic process that is mostly a sham, with dubious chances to have the intended effect and a near certainty to have some negative unintended consequences.
 I suspect there will be students who actually take positives steps toward their future due to the rule.  How many? I don't know. 

 

squistion

Footballguy
So a kid has to get an acceptance letter to a community college (how hard can that be?) but not go. This hardly seems like something to be concerned about.
Not too terribly burdensome either to apply, and the diploma won't be taken back if they decide not to attend. Plus those who have found jobs should be covered under "internships and apprenticeships". It would seem that the only kids not getting a diploma would be those who don't intend to work and can't get off the dime to send an application to a JC.

I don't see any constitutional issues either. Not certain what the problem is here. Would seem that those always complaining about people living off food stamps and government assistance would be in favor of an incentive/prod to make it more likely kids after HS will either get a job or have something lined up to better themselves.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

MaxThreshold

Footballguy
Not too terribly burdensome either to apply, and the diploma won't be taken back if they decide not to attend. Plus those who have found jobs should be covered under "internships and apprenticeships". It would seem that the only kids not getting a diploma would be those who don't intend to work and can't get off the dime to send an application to a JC.

I don't see any constitutional issues either. Not certain what the problem is here. Would seem that those always complaining about people living off food stamps and government assistance would be in favor of an incentive/prod to make it more likely kids after HS will either get a job or something lined up to better themselves.
I'm assuming that you're also okay with drug testing for government assistance then?  After all, we want people to better themselves, right?

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Juxtatarot

Footballguy
The high schools where I live in CA have a requirement to complete 40 hours of community service your senior year to get a diploma.  30-40% of the kids fake it by knowing someone who can lie for them.  The smart move these days is just getting the GED with a few months to go and using that time to prep hard for the SAT.  
Heaven forbid seniors actually do the work and the parents see the value. 

 

Higgs

Footballguy
Even here in the FFA, I doubt anybody will come in here to defend this.


Not too terribly burdensome either to apply, and the diploma won't be taken back if they decide not to attend. Plus those who have found jobs should be covered under "internships and apprenticeships". It would seem that the only kids not getting a diploma would be those who don't intend to work and can't get off the dime to send an application to a JC.

I don't see any constitutional issues either. Not certain what the problem is here. Would seem that those always complaining about people living off food stamps and government assistance would be in favor of an incentive/prod to make it more likely kids after HS will either get a job or have something lined up to better themselves.
Aaaaaaand there you have it.  :lmao:

 

squistion

Footballguy
 I suspect there will be students who actually take positives steps toward their future due to the rule.  How many? I don't know. 
A small percentage who apply at JC will probably attend because they got nothing else to do, while if they hadn't applied they would be sitting home sponging off their parents or hanging out with their friends. Even if just a few who better themselves as a consequence should make worthwhile.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

sbonomo

Footballguy
What a nut job.  College is not the right answer for every student.  Now those that probably could care less about graduating are further set up for failure by not receiving the diploma they earned.  Absolute train wreck.  

 

Ramblin Wreck

Footballguy
Not too terribly burdensome either to apply, and the diploma won't be taken back if they decide not to attend. Plus those who have found jobs should be covered under "internships and apprenticeships". It would seem that the only kids not getting a diploma would be those who don't intend to work and can't get off the dime to send an application to a JC.

I don't see any constitutional issues either. Not certain what the problem is here. Would seem that those always complaining about people living off food stamps and government assistance would be in favor of an incentive/prod to make it more likely kids after HS will either get a job or have something lined up to better themselves.
This surprises no one.

 

Dr Oadi

Footballguy
This is likely even unconstitutional at a state or federal level, not to mention insane, policy-wise.
The government mandating you insure yourself is constitutional so mandating you have an approved next step from government schools seems like a reasonable and constitutional governmental action. 

This is where I thought it might be unconstitutional. Right-to-work doctrine is probably very broad unless you're -- ahem -- an NCAA football player.  
Right to work doesn't exist in Illinois. 

 

squistion

Footballguy
What a nut job.  College is not the right answer for every student.  Now those that probably could care less about graduating are further set up for failure by not receiving the diploma they earned.  Absolute train wreck.  
It is a good thing because college is not being required for every student.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Getting a job is another alternative that is given in the form of "internships and apprenticeships" under which most jobs should qualify.  
No. That's wrong. Apprenticeships and interships have clear meanings, and they aren't pure wage labor.

 

squistion

Footballguy
No. That's wrong. Apprenticeships and interships have clear meanings, and they aren't pure wage labor.
Is that how it is defined under what is proposed? Let us see how this is interpreted once the requirement is enacted. I would bet most jobs would be considered meeting the requirements. Kids are not going to be forced to go to college if it means they or their families can't support themselves. Please.

 

Dr Oadi

Footballguy
Getting a job is another alternative that is given in the form of "internships and apprenticeships" under which most jobs should qualify.  
Does most min wage "right out of HS school" open positions classify themselves as internships and apprenticeships?

This is funneling kids their school systems failed into pouring more money into their education systems  or go kill Russians. The apprenticeships and internships options are laughable to the kids this policy hurts the most.  

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Is that how it is defined under what is proposed? Let us see how this is interpreted once the requirement is enacted. I would bet most jobs would be considered meeting the requirements. Kids are not going to be forced to go to college if it means they or their families can't support themselves. Please.
Dear God, this is such a dumb law, and such a dumb argument, I'm doing myself some good and dropping out.

 

saintfool

Dead sexy
Rahm opened up Chicago city colleges to any graduate to attend free. This helps communities actually get kids into those city colleges which, in theory, can do a lot of good. Either creating a more skilled local work force, reduce the student loan debt for college graduates, or simply give Chicago youth in communities at risk options beyond a life of crime.

At the end of the day, Rahm's pandering but he's pandering from a place of love.

 

MaxThreshold

Footballguy
Rahm opened up Chicago city colleges to any graduate to attend free. This helps communities actually get kids into those city colleges which, in theory, can do a lot of good. Either creating a more skilled local work force, reduce the student loan debt for college graduates, or simply give Chicago youth in communities at risk options beyond a life of crime.

At the end of the day, Rahm's pandering but he's pandering from a place of love.
Oh Jesus Christ.  This is the kind of excuse every lefty with a cause-of-the-week likes to use to make life miserable for everyone.  #### that - it's nothing but bs to force control from you to them.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

rockaction

Footballguy
Oh Jesus Christ.  This is the kind of excuse every lefty with a cause-of-the-week likes to use to make life miserable for everyone.  #### that - it's nothing but bs to force control from you to them.
That was very much a totality argument. I get it, it's just that it becomes totalitarianism at some point. To insist on basic literacy skills to enter the labor force is one thing. To then insist on complete and total social conformation as an adult to get your expected value from the parens patriae is obnoxiousnesses, and typically Rahm and meddling Democratic.  

 

squistion

Footballguy
That was very much a totality argument. I get it, it's just that it becomes totalitarianism at some point. To insist on basic literacy skills to enter the labor force is one thing. To then insist on complete and total social conformation as an adult to get your expected value from the parens patriae is obnoxiousnesses, and typically Rahm and meddling Democratic.  
Totalitarianism? :lol:  

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Totalitarianism? :lol:  
Yes, that's what he is doing. He's trying to solve a societal problem by using the totality of the state. 

Forced until sixteen, no benefits unless satisfying the ever-reaching requirements of of it. It's total. My professors and friends admit measures like these are totalitarian in every sense of the word; not sure why you'd laugh. 

 

squistion

Footballguy

Users who are viewing this thread

Top