Teens: Are they worse, or am I old? (1 Viewer)

[Todem]

Look…..we are going to get great parenting and utter ****show parenting.

Bottom line.

Also social media is a plague…..and the participation trophy culture has also infected kids not to learn “you gotta put in the hard work to achieve” and sometimes you can put in all that hard work and still lose….so what are you going to do then? Quit? Or keep grinding.

Discipline is learning to love what you don’t like to do because….you gotta do it to either get better, get healthier, get stronger etc etc.

That is what is being lost among the youth today and it all starts at home.

 

[dgreen]

Whether or not you think teens are worse now than teens in previous generations, I hope we can all agree that there is no worse demographic throughout the history of the world than a teenage boy.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Whether or not you think teens are worse now than teens in previous generations, I hope we can all agree that there is no worse demographic throughout the history of the world than a teenage boy.

Well, I've always put it this way:
Teenage boys are stupid
Teenage girls are crazy

 

[Witz]

Teens these days are horrible in that they think they have it tough (mine included). They really don’t.

Did they walk to school uphill both ways in the snow like I did? I don’t think so.

 

[dgreen]

Whether or not you think teens are worse now than teens in previous generations, I hope we can all agree that there is no worse demographic throughout the history of the world than a teenage boy.

Well, I've always put it this way:
Teenage boys are stupid
Teenage girls are crazy

I was thinking more about the obnoxiousness, which I guess is mostly them thinking their stupidness funny.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Whether or not you think teens are worse now than teens in previous generations, I hope we can all agree that there is no worse demographic throughout the history of the world than a teenage boy.

I posted in the college thread that when we dropped my son off at college a couple months ago I felt guilty because it was supposed to be an emotional moment for me, but my wife and I were practically high-fiving each other as we drove away from his dorm.

 

[ghostguy123]

Perhaps a lot of the same reasons kids suck these days are also making parents and parenting suck even more.

 

[msudaisy26]

Perhaps a lot of the same reasons kids suck these days are also making parents and parenting suck even more.

This isn't a chicken or egg type of situation. Parenting molds kids into who they become, not the other way around. Of course there are exceptions with mental health and other factors.

 

[Hoh]

Peer pressure is 24-7

 

[ghostguy123]

Perhaps a lot of the same reasons kids suck these days are also making parents and parenting suck even more.

This isn't a chicken or egg type of situation. Parenting molds kids into who they become, not the other way around. Of course there are exceptions with mental health and other factors.

Huh??
I'm saying, things are available to kids these days that weren't a couple decades ago.
That also holds true for adults.

 

[Ben & Jerry's]

I agree the teaching model and curriculum is outdated. The US Dept of Education is a bloated mass of beaurocracy and could be trimmed by hundreds if not thousands.

Social media has been both a blessing and a curse. We are letting unknown outside influences teach our children.

TikTok is more or less digital fentanyl.

 

[msudaisy26]

Perhaps a lot of the same reasons kids suck these days are also making parents and parenting suck even more.

This isn't a chicken or egg type of situation. Parenting molds kids into who they become, not the other way around. Of course there are exceptions with mental health and other factors.

Huh??
I'm saying, things are available to kids these days that weren't a couple decades ago.
That also holds true for adults.

Sorry your post wasn't very clear. I read it as kids suck and this makes parents suck.

 

[ghostguy123]

Perhaps a lot of the same reasons kids suck these days are also making parents and parenting suck even more.

This isn't a chicken or egg type of situation. Parenting molds kids into who they become, not the other way around. Of course there are exceptions with mental health and other factors.

Huh??
I'm saying, things are available to kids these days that weren't a couple decades ago.
That also holds true for adults.

Sorry your post wasn't very clear. I read it as kids suck and this makes parents suck.

Correct, I did NOT mean that, lol

 

[belljr]

So thought of this thread today. Played golf with my buddy and his 16 year old son. He's a bit know it ally but overall decent kid. Well today it went off the rails quickly. He said something to his dad that was very disrespectful then something else. I actually almost said something it was that bad. So my buddy is embarrassed and off to the side made a offhand comment like I just want to punch him in the face sometimes. I said if I talked to my dad like that or my son did whatever club was in my hand right or wrong would have been wrapped around our necks : ....not even a joke

 

[Ilov80s]

When adults get buried and stressed, they cope in various ways or just flat out shut down. Why should kids be different? That's why I find it hard to agree with posts above about kids not playing outside or doing certain things we used to do. When should they do it?

There's a bunch of kids out there doing absolutely nothing productive from after school till bed time.

Same as it ever was

 

[Ilov80s]

17th year teaching, I am in a large middle class HS. Some kids are quite well to do but we have plenty of kids with some rough backgrounds as well. Kids are a little different, they do need more hand holding and have more learned helplessness. They also are less social. However, they are also kinder, get into less trouble, are more respectful, more accepting of others, etc. It's just maybe what this generation is. I generally like them and don't think the sky is falling. My suggestions for parents would be:

- don't get your kid a phone until high school, let me them figure themselves out a bit before you give them that much power and connection
- monitor and talk about what they are doing on their phones, like seriously they might be doing some real weird stuff like I've heard stories of 11 year girls talking to grown men and 14 year old boys sucked into NAZI propaganda
- try to get them to read and write because that is where kids are really struggling now, if they want video game time they better also have book time
- parents get your butt off social media and netflix and your phone as well, be good role model. Talk with your kids, hang out with them, be present for them consistently.
- give them room to try things and fail, stop being so over protective

 

[msudaisy26]

17th year teaching, I am in a large middle class HS. Some kids are quite well to do but we have plenty of kids with some rough backgrounds as well. Kids are a little different, they do need more hand holding and have more learned helplessness. They also are less social. However, they are also kinder, get into less trouble, are more respectful, more accepting of others, etc. It's just maybe what this generation is. I generally like them and don't think the sky is falling. My suggestions for parents would be:

- don't get your kid a phone until high school, let me them figure themselves out a bit before you give them that much power and connection
- monitor and talk about what they are doing on their phones, like seriously they might be doing some real weird stuff like I've heard stories of 11 year girls talking to grown men and 14 year old boys sucked into NAZI propaganda
- try to get them to read and write because that is where kids are really struggling now, if they want video game time they better also have book time
- parents get you butt off social media and netflix and your phone as well, be good role model. Talk with your kids, hang out with them, be present for them consistently.
- give them room to try things and fail, stop being so over protective

This is a pretty good list, but as an educator I would add a couple things.

Phones are okay in middle school with limits. Sometimes practices, detention, make up sessions happen.

Parents limit social media/phone time in front them. You need to be on all the platforms so you know what to expect. As a mother of a 10 year I feel like I need to start learning about all the social media outlets since I only have Facebook.

Last point is the the best and most important of all.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I have been a high school teacher for the past decade-plus. I teach kids that range from having GPAs that start with 0, to kids that get full rides to Ivy League schools. I see it all. The school I teach at is large (over 2,500 students), in the suburbs, and in general is a "good" school, but we do have our share of behvaior issues. There are fights, kids smoke in the bathrooms, they don't follow the dress code rules, they're late to class etc.

But, to be honest the thing I notice the most, is their lack of desire to do -ANYTHING- that they don't enjoy or that requires any level of effort, whatsoever.

This goes from my lowest achieving students, to my highest. The learned helplessness is just off-the-charts bad this year, and has been getting worse every year. I teach Juniors, their social/emotional characteristics feel much closer to what 6th or 7th graders were like 20 years ago.

I have to hand-hold and spoon-feed, EVERYTHING to these kids. It is insane.

I don't know if I should blame parenting, the pandemic, social media, the kids themselves, or myself or some other thing I haven't even considered.

Is anybody else that lives, works or interacts with teenagers seeing the same thing or am I just old (37) now?

Thanks.

Hi @Goldminer1 I don't have a good answer. I'm usually inclined to lean toward all generations have thought the one previous was worse. I think some of it us.

BUT,mostly wanted to thank you for being a teacher. The world needs more thoughtful teachers. Thank you.

 

[gianmarco]

17th year teaching, I am in a large middle class HS. Some kids are quite well to do but we have plenty of kids with some rough backgrounds as well. Kids are a little different, they do need more hand holding and have more learned helplessness. They also are less social. However, they are also kinder, get into less trouble, are more respectful, more accepting of others, etc. It's just maybe what this generation is. I generally like them and don't think the sky is falling. My suggestions for parents would be:

- don't get your kid a phone until high school, let me them figure themselves out a bit before you give them that much power and connection
- monitor and talk about what they are doing on their phones, like seriously they might be doing some real weird stuff like I've heard stories of 11 year girls talking to grown men and 14 year old boys sucked into NAZI propaganda
- try to get them to read and write because that is where kids are really struggling now, if they want video game time they better also have book time
- parents get you butt off social media and netflix and your phone as well, be good role model. Talk with your kids, hang out with them, be present for them consistently.
- give them room to try things and fail, stop being so over protective

Love your post overall. Our son didn't get his phone until he was a freshman and he was the ONLY one that didn't have one. Since 6th grade. Ugh. But, it'll be the same with our girls. And I don't care if they are the only ones again as well

I wanted to address the bolded, though. This to me is such a big deal and yet is such a Catch-22.

Having gone through the college process the last couple years, it's a completely different world than when I did it 30 years ago. It's been mentioned here and in other spots how having good grades/test scores and being well rounded (extra curriculars) used to be enough to get you into most any school. The process used to be fun. We'd get mailers, you send in whatever applications, and then you get to hear back, usually in a positive way if you were at least a halfway decent student.

That's not the case anymore and kids know this. It's INCREDIBLY stressful for them and I don't remember it ever being like that for us when I was at that age. You basically need everything to be perfect to have a shot at that place you might want to go. College acceptances are not as easy to come by despite what seems like higher grades and test scores and other stuff across the board.

So, when you know that's the case, it's REALLY hard to say "yep, I'm not helping you out here, you're going to have to see what happens when you fail or mess something up". It sounds hyperbolic, but that one lesson could end up having negative life changing consequences even if it's overall a good thing to happen for overall growth and responsibility. It's so sad and unfortunate. Kids absolutely have to learn how to fail and pick themselves up but parents can be handcuffed with letting that happen knowing how large the consequences could be downstream that do NOT match whatever the failure might have been.

It's crazy, but I think my son is better off learning that lesson now in college from the sense that he can fix it and learn from it without future negative consequences than if it happened in high school. And that is so sad to me.

My perception of this could be off, but I'll tell you it was very real in my head as he navigated through high school if he ever ran into issues. It's not a concern for me at all, right now, now that he's in college.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

17th year teaching, I am in a large middle class HS. Some kids are quite well to do but we have plenty of kids with some rough backgrounds as well. Kids are a little different, they do need more hand holding and have more learned helplessness. They also are less social. However, they are also kinder, get into less trouble, are more respectful, more accepting of others, etc. It's just maybe what this generation is. I generally like them and don't think the sky is falling. My suggestions for parents would be:

- don't get your kid a phone until high school, let me them figure themselves out a bit before you give them that much power and connection
- monitor and talk about what they are doing on their phones, like seriously they might be doing some real weird stuff like I've heard stories of 11 year girls talking to grown men and 14 year old boys sucked into NAZI propaganda
- try to get them to read and write because that is where kids are really struggling now, if they want video game time they better also have book time
- parents get you butt off social media and netflix and your phone as well, be good role model. Talk with your kids, hang out with them, be present for them consistently.
- give them room to try things and fail, stop being so over protective

With our son we held out on a phone until before his freshman year in high school - 4 years ago. That was tough. We just got my daughter her first phone last month - she's in 7th grade. Her school is very diverse in terms of income levels and she is by far the last one to get a phone. It is very hard these days to wait even this long (7th grade) to get your kid a phone for socialization reasons. We still have extremely strict phone rules by comparison to her peers but not having one was pretty much no longer an option for us.

 

[belljr]

My daughter was the last phone person in 7th grade. She didn't do social media. We got the phone because it was the first year of being home alone after school/sports. Her anti social media was a good thing but also a negative because it held her back maybe a little socially....but she is still a quiet kid

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I know personally, I just coasted through my teenage years academically and I turned out fine. My kids read more books in a year than I read before college. LOL.

I'm not going to knock kids for reading books, but one of the other big issues I am seeing, is that kids don't go outside and interact with each other in person. No joke, I literally had a kid bring me blades of grass on Monday to prove that he had gone outside over the weekend.

They are able to communicate electronically 24/7 and so physically going to your friend's house to play video games, or to play wiffle ball, doesn't happen very much anymore. The social development of kids seems to have -really- suffered because of this. You may be familiar with studies on how beneficial "unsupervised play" is for young children, it is important for "older" kids too, but in today's world, they get very little of it, in person.

I think its just different. I thought this was a funny situation which made me look at things differently. My daughter liked to watch other people play minecraft (this is actually a thing on youtube) so I asked her wouldn't you rather just play it yourself. She then asked me why is that different than me watching other people play football all day. Obviously there's some nuisance to that, but I felt the analogy was valid. Kids these days spend their time differently than we did and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that. If my teenagers want to spend their free time on tiktok rather than spending it watching movies and sports like I did, that's their business.

Thats a very fair point. I think that this is the part, that I need to get better at, is just accepting that these kids are of a different time and world than I grew up in. I'm right in the meaty part of the Millennial curve - born in 1986.

5 Years Old: Persian Gulf War
9 Years Old: OKC Bombing / OJ Trial
12 Years Old: Princess Diana dies / Seinfeld Ends / Google is Founded / Homerun Chase / Clinton Impeached
13 Years Old: Columbine
14 Years Old: Y2K
15 Years Old: 9/11& War on Terror
16 Years Old: Iraq War
17 Years Old: Facebook Launches
19 Years Old: Hurricane Katrina
21 Years Old: Housing Crisis
22 Years Old: Obama sworn-in (Historic)

Kids that are in high school today, remember, none of those events. But, they were all a big part of my youth and development in terms of the culture and world I was a part of.

If you're 17 years old today, you were 9/10 years old when the election cycle of 2016 started. So essentially, your entire life since you've been a "big kid" has been an insane time politically and a global pandemic. Not great, and also, not their fault.

It’s fun reading about Millenials who are disappointed in the attitude and behavior of kids today.

Signed,
Gen X

 

[Ilov80s]

Yeah these kids in high school right now haven’t exactly been given the best of this country and that’s not their fault, that’s on us adults. I wouldn’t be too excited about my future if I was 15 right now. The world is a mess and the adults only seem to want to drink, smoke weed and fight about literally everything.

 

[jwb]

Yeah these kids in high school right now haven’t exactly been given the best of this country and that’s not their fault, that’s on us adults. I wouldn’t be too excited about my future if I was 15 right now. The world is a mess and the adults only seem to want to drink, smoke weed and fight about literally everything.

I hear this a lot from my nephews (18 / 17). The future looks very bleak to them. Right now, a major concern for them is picking a career that AI isn't going to obliterate in the next decade. They also see very limited paths to moving out.

I think about when I was 18 (1984) - the future looked awesome, and I couldn't wait to get out there, start making grown-up money, and living my life. And fairly quickly I was also able to afford a decent apartment on just a little over minimum wage (basically an assistant managers hourly wage).

Kids now have it tough. Tougher than I/we did, that's for sure.

 

[Ilov80s]

Yeah these kids in high school right now haven’t exactly been given the best of this country and that’s not their fault, that’s on us adults. I wouldn’t be too excited about my future if I was 15 right now. The world is a mess and the adults only seem to want to drink, smoke weed and fight about literally everything.

I hear this a lot from my nephews (18 / 17). The future looks very bleak to them. Right now, a major concern for them is picking a career that AI isn't going to obliterate in the next decade. They also see very limited paths to moving out.

I think about when I was 18 (1984) - the future looked awesome, and I couldn't wait to get out there, start making grown-up money, and living my life. And fairly quickly I was also able to afford a decent apartment on just a little over minimum wage (basically an assistant managers hourly wage).

Kids now have it tough. Tougher than I/we did, that's for sure.

Yeah for sure, the 90s were a great time to be a teen. The future looked great, the internet was exploding and changing the world. Politics were relatively civil. Then I had to go through 9/11, the recession and the absolute hellscape of the last few years and I just feel lucky I was able to get through all that and get myself fully established. Financially, I am still not fully recovered from the recession and the way it hit the teaching field in Michigan. But I am good, my wife makes good money and we got a very nice house at a time when it was affordable. But man, I have a hard time explaining to the kids why they should be excited about anything in the state of the world right now. The adults in this country have totally made a mess of a pretty good thing.

 

[Ilov80s]

Was reading something online which made me think of this thread. It seems like there have slowly been some instances of HS boys using deepfake technology to spread fake nude pictures of HS girls. Worst part is that theres not really any laws against this. Obviously schools can still suspend, expel, etc. It really sucks though. What a terrible thing to happen to a girl.

 

[rockaction]

It seems like there have slowly been some instances of HS boys using deepfake technology to spread fake nude pictures of HS girls

Remember the scene in Sixteen Candles where all the freshman pay money to see the underwear of "fully-eged sophomore meat" displayed in the bathroom of their school at the school dance? Somehow this "ingenuity" doesn't surprise me given that it's that ingrained in our DNA. And that you probably don't need all the girls to give you a "deep fake." There were girls in my stepniece's class giving away nude booty and other shots and the like. On Twitter, never mind Snapchat.

In other completely unsurprising news, the guy from Girls Gone Wild just offered to buy them out and re-package the noodz to all these guys' friendz for like 10K up front!

I'm kidding, but can't you see nefarious corporate involvement in such a scheme? From the ground up to the belly up.

 

[rockaction]

And yes, teens seem worse because their means to seem worse and wield power are ever-growing in scope. From things like social media to other intangibles like parents wanting to be friends rather than feared adults, teens wield a ton of power these days over everything, be it voluntary or not.

But really, they're nicer to each other in person and in meatspace groups than we ever were. We were a nasty bunch. These kids are nicer on the whole, but they carry this damaged weight around with them. Probably because so many of them are unchurched. But that's my opinion for another day.

An entire generation doesn't lose God and all of the sudden not feel the after-effect and loss of the gifts that a big three religion God gave us. (Sounds like a sports conference, doesn't it? The Big Three Religion Conference -- right here in New Jersey!)

 

[Ilov80s]

And yes, teens seem worse because their means to seem worse and wield power are ever-growing in scope. From things like social media to other intangibles like parents wanting to be friends rather than feared adults, teens wield a ton of power these days over everything, be it voluntary or not.

But really, they're nicer to each other in person and in meatspace groups than we ever were. We were a nasty bunch. These kids are nicer on the whole, but they carry this damaged weight around with them. Probably because so many of them are unchurched. But that's my opinion for another day.

An entire generation doesn't lose God and all of the sudden not feel the aftereffect and loss of the gifts that a big three religion God gave us. (Sounds like a sports conference, doesn't it? The Big Three Religion Conference -- right here in New Jersey!)

I won't touch the God stuff but yes they are nicer but more damaged perhaps. I think it's the same reason we all carry more burdens. The evil of the world is so much more front and center, impossible to avoid now. With the internet, all information is instantly available and unfortunately, so much of that information is awful.

If a major goal of people, families and society is to protect our children, we are failing miserably.

 

[Ilov80s]

It seems like there have slowly been some instances of HS boys using deepfake technology to spread fake nude pictures of HS girls

I'm kidding, but can't you see nefarious corporate involvement in such a scheme? From the ground up to the belly up.

I sure can

 

[massraider]

I'm unmarried with no kids. Disclaimer so that some know not to bother reading further.

My reflex answer is that parents are worse, but one thing I think for sure is that parenting is much much harder now. I probably believe that parents are worse now, AND parenting is much harder. But I think they are both worse, parents and kids. Doesn't really matter the chicken or the egg. This been going on a while. 2000 was 23 years ago. Little kids sucked then, and now they have little kids.

An entire generation doesn't lose God and all of the sudden not feel the aftereffect

Three generations of households that need two incomes gets my vote. Who is around to keep the kids off the screens? To actually mold their development?

How about 3 generations of kids eating garbage? Bunch of obese people raising obese kids, and developing illnesses just from eating like a person with nothing to lose.

 

[Da Guru]

Two words - social media

Without a doubt! Parents are also worse but I agree that parenting with social media has made it a difficult job. What I see now though is too many parents want to be their kids best friends, not their mom or dad. Being a mom and dad is not easy if you want your kids to like you all the time.

My wife and I always told our kids. We are your mom dad first, your best friends second. As they got older you become their best friends and parents.

 

[Galileo]

17th year teaching, I am in a large middle class HS. Some kids are quite well to do but we have plenty of kids with some rough backgrounds as well. Kids are a little different, they do need more hand holding and have more learned helplessness. They also are less social. However, they are also kinder, get into less trouble, are more respectful, more accepting of others, etc. It's just maybe what this generation is. I generally like them and don't think the sky is falling. My suggestions for parents would be:

- don't get your kid a phone until high school, let me them figure themselves out a bit before you give them that much power and connection
- monitor and talk about what they are doing on their phones, like seriously they might be doing some real weird stuff like I've heard stories of 11 year girls talking to grown men and 14 year old boys sucked into NAZI propaganda
- try to get them to read and write because that is where kids are really struggling now, if they want video game time they better also have book time
- parents get you butt off social media and netflix and your phone as well, be good role model. Talk with your kids, hang out with them, be present for them consistently.
- give them room to try things and fail, stop being so over protective

Love your post overall. Our son didn't get his phone until he was a freshman and he was the ONLY one that didn't have one. Since 6th grade. Ugh. But, it'll be the same with our girls. And I don't care if they are the only ones again as well

I wanted to address the bolded, though. This to me is such a big deal and yet is such a Catch-22.

Having gone through the college process the last couple years, it's a completely different world than when I did it 30 years ago. It's been mentioned here and in other spots how having good grades/test scores and being well rounded (extra curriculars) used to be enough to get you into most any school. The process used to be fun. We'd get mailers, you send in whatever applications, and then you get to hear back, usually in a positive way if you were at least a halfway decent student.

That's not the case anymore and kids know this. It's INCREDIBLY stressful for them and I don't remember it ever being like that for us when I was at that age. You basically need everything to be perfect to have a shot at that place you might want to go. College acceptances are not as easy to come by despite what seems like higher grades and test scores and other stuff across the board.

So, when you know that's the case, it's REALLY hard to say "yep, I'm not helping you out here, you're going to have to see what happens when you fail or mess something up". It sounds hyperbolic, but that one lesson could end up having negative life changing consequences even if it's overall a good thing to happen for overall growth and responsibility. It's so sad and unfortunate. Kids absolutely have to learn how to fail and pick themselves up but parents can be handcuffed with letting that happen knowing how large the consequences could be downstream that do NOT match whatever the failure might have been.

It's crazy, but I think my son is better off learning that lesson now in college from the sense that he can fix it and learn from it without future negative consequences than if it happened in high school. And that is so sad to me.

My perception of this could be off, but I'll tell you it was very real in my head as he navigated through high school if he ever ran into issues. It's not a concern for me at all, right now, now that he's in college.

And it is a catch 22 in the schools as well. This is what leads to all of the hand holding; spoon feeding; bending over backwards to give kids 2nd, 3rd, or more chances; inflated grades, and generally lowered expectations which are all detrimental to the educational process. I have been teaching for 33 years. 30 yrs ago, if a kid failed (a test, a class, whatever) it was on the kid. When it happens today, administration and parents are quick to point at the teacher. I am not saying either of these is right or wrong, just pointing out a difference that I have seen evolve over the years. The reality is that there is a collective failure contributing to these issues. I try my best to be reflective of my work and continually improve what I do to create the best learning environment and experiences for each of my students. It can be a circus act sometimes to trying to boost the higher achieving students to the next level while simultaneously holding onto the rope that the lower ended students are clinging onto. Students are all individuals with dramatically different needs. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the system is poorly structured for individualization. Sadly, I see teachers succumb to the pressures all the time. It is easier to for them to tweak the grades or design a class that is easier to pass, or do a lot of hand holding then it is to deal with the accusatory "why do so many kids struggle or fail in your class?" problem. Schools don't have to face the "why are the graduation rates so low?" or the 'why aren't we as good as the neighboring district?" issue. Many just turn a blind eye and move along as if there is no problem for self preservation. Johnny eventually learns he doesn't really need to do much to be pushed through the system. If he has got a pulse, he'll graduate.

 

[Caveman33]

I'm unmarried with no kids. Disclaimer so that some know not to bother reading further.

My reflex answer is that parents are worse, but one thing I think for sure is that parenting is much much harder now. I probably believe that parents are worse now, AND parenting is much harder. But I think they are both worse, parents and kids. Doesn't really matter the chicken or the egg. This been going on a while. 2000 was 23 years ago. Little kids sucked then, and now they have little kids.

An entire generation doesn't lose God and all of the sudden not feel the aftereffect

Three generations of households that need two incomes gets my vote. Who is around to keep the kids off the screens? To actually mold their development?

How about 3 generations of kids eating garbage? Bunch of obese people raising obese kids, and developing illnesses just from eating like a person with nothing to lose.

I'm also unmarried without kids, so maybe that renders me biased, but I believe in the devolution of humanity. It's often said that every generation claims the next is worse, but how far back does that date? 1900-1920s are known as the Greatest Generation and maybe they were? Is it possible that every generation has gotten incrementally worse since then?

Technology will continue to evolve because there will always be outliers. Incredibly intelligent people who build upon the ideas of their predecessors. However, if we look at the average person today and compare them to the average person in past generations, are we doing better? There are many studies showing how birth rate increases as intelligence decreases. While many may claim that this has not led to generational intelligence decline, I suspect the "grading curve" is constantly being adjusted. It seems like the majority of teens are diagnosed and/or being medicated for something. Environmental factors are another influence working against current and future generations. Who knows how negatively we are affected by all the plastic, pesticides, and other toxins that the Greatest Generation did not contend with.

 

[PIK95]

I’m sure it doesn’t help this generation to see our generation at each other’s throat over every single topic under the sun. Every opinion, every stance is subject to ridicule and criticism. It’s not enough anymore to say “I disagree”, it’s “I disagree, you’re evil.” The only safe identity or stance is to have none at all. Who can blame them for avoidance?

The NBA threads are the worst. And the kids LOVE the NBA. I blame SA.Smith

 

[snellman]

17th year teaching, I am in a large middle class HS. Some kids are quite well to do but we have plenty of kids with some rough backgrounds as well. Kids are a little different, they do need more hand holding and have more learned helplessness. They also are less social. However, they are also kinder, get into less trouble, are more respectful, more accepting of others, etc. It's just maybe what this generation is. I generally like them and don't think the sky is falling. My suggestions for parents would be:

- don't get your kid a phone until high school, let me them figure themselves out a bit before you give them that much power and connection
- monitor and talk about what they are doing on their phones, like seriously they might be doing some real weird stuff like I've heard stories of 11 year girls talking to grown men and 14 year old boys sucked into NAZI propaganda
- try to get them to read and write because that is where kids are really struggling now, if they want video game time they better also have book time
- parents get you butt off social media and netflix and your phone as well, be good role model. Talk with your kids, hang out with them, be present for them consistently.
- give them room to try things and fail, stop being so over protective

Love your post overall. Our son didn't get his phone until he was a freshman and he was the ONLY one that didn't have one. Since 6th grade. Ugh. But, it'll be the same with our girls. And I don't care if they are the only ones again as well

I wanted to address the bolded, though. This to me is such a big deal and yet is such a Catch-22.

Having gone through the college process the last couple years, it's a completely different world than when I did it 30 years ago. It's been mentioned here and in other spots how having good grades/test scores and being well rounded (extra curriculars) used to be enough to get you into most any school. The process used to be fun. We'd get mailers, you send in whatever applications, and then you get to hear back, usually in a positive way if you were at least a halfway decent student.

That's not the case anymore and kids know this. It's INCREDIBLY stressful for them and I don't remember it ever being like that for us when I was at that age. You basically need everything to be perfect to have a shot at that place you might want to go. College acceptances are not as easy to come by despite what seems like higher grades and test scores and other stuff across the board.

So, when you know that's the case, it's REALLY hard to say "yep, I'm not helping you out here, you're going to have to see what happens when you fail or mess something up". It sounds hyperbolic, but that one lesson could end up having negative life changing consequences even if it's overall a good thing to happen for overall growth and responsibility. It's so sad and unfortunate. Kids absolutely have to learn how to fail and pick themselves up but parents can be handcuffed with letting that happen knowing how large the consequences could be downstream that do NOT match whatever the failure might have been.

It's crazy, but I think my son is better off learning that lesson now in college from the sense that he can fix it and learn from it without future negative consequences than if it happened in high school. And that is so sad to me.

My perception of this could be off, but I'll tell you it was very real in my head as he navigated through high school if he ever ran into issues. It's not a concern for me at all, right now, now that he's in college.

And it is a catch 22 in the schools as well. This is what leads to all of the hand holding; spoon feeding; bending over backwards to give kids 2nd, 3rd, or more chances; inflated grades, and generally lowered expectations which are all detrimental to the educational process. I have been teaching for 33 years. 30 yrs ago, if a kid failed (a test, a class, whatever) it was on the kid. When it happens today, administration and parents are quick to point at the teacher. I am not saying either of these is right or wrong, just pointing out a difference that I have seen evolve over the years. The reality is that there is a collective failure contributing to these issues. I try my best to be reflective of my work and continually improve what I do to create the best learning environment and experiences for each of my students. It can be a circus act sometimes to trying to boost the higher achieving students to the next level while simultaneously holding onto the rope that the lower ended students are clinging onto. Students are all individuals with dramatically different needs. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the system is poorly structured for individualization. Sadly, I see teachers succumb to the pressures all the time. It is easier to for them to tweak the grades or design a class that is easier to pass, or do a lot of hand holding then it is to deal with the accusatory "why do so many kids struggle or fail in your class?" problem. Schools don't have to face the "why are the graduation rates so low?" or the 'why aren't we as good as the neighboring district?" issue. Many just turn a blind eye and move along as if there is no problem for self preservation. Johnny eventually learns he doesn't really need to do much to be pushed through the system. If he has got a pulse, he'll graduate.

I agree with this. Keep in mind that this was 15 years ago, so things have changed some but not much. Our son was in kindergarten and we could see that school was a struggle for him. We pushed to hold him back, but they said no, he was ready for first grade. We kept pushing and pushing trying to be able to hold him back, but the teacher and the principal both said that we could not hold him back. After that, he continued to struggle with school and all through elementary school they would threaten to hold him back, but just kept pushing him through. When he got to high school and grade and credits mattered, he was past the point of no return and we were told that it was our fault because we didn't hold him back. Pandemic year was his junior year and needless to say that was a wash because if he wasn't doing his work when he had structure, there was no way he was going to do it on his own. I could have taken the whole year off and sat next to him all day long and he still wouldn't have gotten his work done. He dropped out of high school his senior year. Smart kid, just no drive or determination when it comes to academics. I often beat myself up over if things would have been different had we fought even harder to have him held back in Kindergarten and succeeded.

 

[Galileo]

17th year teaching, I am in a large middle class HS. Some kids are quite well to do but we have plenty of kids with some rough backgrounds as well. Kids are a little different, they do need more hand holding and have more learned helplessness. They also are less social. However, they are also kinder, get into less trouble, are more respectful, more accepting of others, etc. It's just maybe what this generation is. I generally like them and don't think the sky is falling. My suggestions for parents would be:

- don't get your kid a phone until high school, let me them figure themselves out a bit before you give them that much power and connection
- monitor and talk about what they are doing on their phones, like seriously they might be doing some real weird stuff like I've heard stories of 11 year girls talking to grown men and 14 year old boys sucked into NAZI propaganda
- try to get them to read and write because that is where kids are really struggling now, if they want video game time they better also have book time
- parents get you butt off social media and netflix and your phone as well, be good role model. Talk with your kids, hang out with them, be present for them consistently.
- give them room to try things and fail, stop being so over protective

Love your post overall. Our son didn't get his phone until he was a freshman and he was the ONLY one that didn't have one. Since 6th grade. Ugh. But, it'll be the same with our girls. And I don't care if they are the only ones again as well

I wanted to address the bolded, though. This to me is such a big deal and yet is such a Catch-22.

Having gone through the college process the last couple years, it's a completely different world than when I did it 30 years ago. It's been mentioned here and in other spots how having good grades/test scores and being well rounded (extra curriculars) used to be enough to get you into most any school. The process used to be fun. We'd get mailers, you send in whatever applications, and then you get to hear back, usually in a positive way if you were at least a halfway decent student.

That's not the case anymore and kids know this. It's INCREDIBLY stressful for them and I don't remember it ever being like that for us when I was at that age. You basically need everything to be perfect to have a shot at that place you might want to go. College acceptances are not as easy to come by despite what seems like higher grades and test scores and other stuff across the board.

So, when you know that's the case, it's REALLY hard to say "yep, I'm not helping you out here, you're going to have to see what happens when you fail or mess something up". It sounds hyperbolic, but that one lesson could end up having negative life changing consequences even if it's overall a good thing to happen for overall growth and responsibility. It's so sad and unfortunate. Kids absolutely have to learn how to fail and pick themselves up but parents can be handcuffed with letting that happen knowing how large the consequences could be downstream that do NOT match whatever the failure might have been.

It's crazy, but I think my son is better off learning that lesson now in college from the sense that he can fix it and learn from it without future negative consequences than if it happened in high school. And that is so sad to me.

My perception of this could be off, but I'll tell you it was very real in my head as he navigated through high school if he ever ran into issues. It's not a concern for me at all, right now, now that he's in college.

And it is a catch 22 in the schools as well. This is what leads to all of the hand holding; spoon feeding; bending over backwards to give kids 2nd, 3rd, or more chances; inflated grades, and generally lowered expectations which are all detrimental to the educational process. I have been teaching for 33 years. 30 yrs ago, if a kid failed (a test, a class, whatever) it was on the kid. When it happens today, administration and parents are quick to point at the teacher. I am not saying either of these is right or wrong, just pointing out a difference that I have seen evolve over the years. The reality is that there is a collective failure contributing to these issues. I try my best to be reflective of my work and continually improve what I do to create the best learning environment and experiences for each of my students. It can be a circus act sometimes to trying to boost the higher achieving students to the next level while simultaneously holding onto the rope that the lower ended students are clinging onto. Students are all individuals with dramatically different needs. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the system is poorly structured for individualization. Sadly, I see teachers succumb to the pressures all the time. It is easier to for them to tweak the grades or design a class that is easier to pass, or do a lot of hand holding then it is to deal with the accusatory "why do so many kids struggle or fail in your class?" problem. Schools don't have to face the "why are the graduation rates so low?" or the 'why aren't we as good as the neighboring district?" issue. Many just turn a blind eye and move along as if there is no problem for self preservation. Johnny eventually learns he doesn't really need to do much to be pushed through the system. If he has got a pulse, he'll graduate.

I agree with this. Keep in mind that this was 15 years ago, so things have changed some but not much. Our son was in kindergarten and we could see that school was a struggle for him. We pushed to hold him back, but they said no, he was ready for first grade. We kept pushing and pushing trying to be able to hold him back, but the teacher and the principal both said that we could not hold him back. After that, he continued to struggle with school and all through elementary school they would threaten to hold him back, but just kept pushing him through. When he got to high school and grade and credits mattered, he was past the point of no return and we were told that it was our fault because we didn't hold him back. Pandemic year was his junior year and needless to say that was a wash because if he wasn't doing his work when he had structure, there was no way he was going to do it on his own. I could have taken the whole year off and sat next to him all day long and he still wouldn't have gotten his work done. He dropped out of high school his senior year. Smart kid, just no drive or determination when it comes to academics. I often beat myself up over if things would have been different had we fought even harder to have him held back in Kindergarten and succeeded.

Sorry to hear about his/your struggle. Don't beat yourself up, because you can't possibly know what, if anything, would be different. How is he doing now? Did he find productive employment or a trade to dive into?

 

[snellman]

17th year teaching, I am in a large middle class HS. Some kids are quite well to do but we have plenty of kids with some rough backgrounds as well. Kids are a little different, they do need more hand holding and have more learned helplessness. They also are less social. However, they are also kinder, get into less trouble, are more respectful, more accepting of others, etc. It's just maybe what this generation is. I generally like them and don't think the sky is falling. My suggestions for parents would be:

- don't get your kid a phone until high school, let me them figure themselves out a bit before you give them that much power and connection
- monitor and talk about what they are doing on their phones, like seriously they might be doing some real weird stuff like I've heard stories of 11 year girls talking to grown men and 14 year old boys sucked into NAZI propaganda
- try to get them to read and write because that is where kids are really struggling now, if they want video game time they better also have book time
- parents get you butt off social media and netflix and your phone as well, be good role model. Talk with your kids, hang out with them, be present for them consistently.
- give them room to try things and fail, stop being so over protective

Love your post overall. Our son didn't get his phone until he was a freshman and he was the ONLY one that didn't have one. Since 6th grade. Ugh. But, it'll be the same with our girls. And I don't care if they are the only ones again as well

I wanted to address the bolded, though. This to me is such a big deal and yet is such a Catch-22.

Having gone through the college process the last couple years, it's a completely different world than when I did it 30 years ago. It's been mentioned here and in other spots how having good grades/test scores and being well rounded (extra curriculars) used to be enough to get you into most any school. The process used to be fun. We'd get mailers, you send in whatever applications, and then you get to hear back, usually in a positive way if you were at least a halfway decent student.

That's not the case anymore and kids know this. It's INCREDIBLY stressful for them and I don't remember it ever being like that for us when I was at that age. You basically need everything to be perfect to have a shot at that place you might want to go. College acceptances are not as easy to come by despite what seems like higher grades and test scores and other stuff across the board.

So, when you know that's the case, it's REALLY hard to say "yep, I'm not helping you out here, you're going to have to see what happens when you fail or mess something up". It sounds hyperbolic, but that one lesson could end up having negative life changing consequences even if it's overall a good thing to happen for overall growth and responsibility. It's so sad and unfortunate. Kids absolutely have to learn how to fail and pick themselves up but parents can be handcuffed with letting that happen knowing how large the consequences could be downstream that do NOT match whatever the failure might have been.

It's crazy, but I think my son is better off learning that lesson now in college from the sense that he can fix it and learn from it without future negative consequences than if it happened in high school. And that is so sad to me.

My perception of this could be off, but I'll tell you it was very real in my head as he navigated through high school if he ever ran into issues. It's not a concern for me at all, right now, now that he's in college.

And it is a catch 22 in the schools as well. This is what leads to all of the hand holding; spoon feeding; bending over backwards to give kids 2nd, 3rd, or more chances; inflated grades, and generally lowered expectations which are all detrimental to the educational process. I have been teaching for 33 years. 30 yrs ago, if a kid failed (a test, a class, whatever) it was on the kid. When it happens today, administration and parents are quick to point at the teacher. I am not saying either of these is right or wrong, just pointing out a difference that I have seen evolve over the years. The reality is that there is a collective failure contributing to these issues. I try my best to be reflective of my work and continually improve what I do to create the best learning environment and experiences for each of my students. It can be a circus act sometimes to trying to boost the higher achieving students to the next level while simultaneously holding onto the rope that the lower ended students are clinging onto. Students are all individuals with dramatically different needs. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the system is poorly structured for individualization. Sadly, I see teachers succumb to the pressures all the time. It is easier to for them to tweak the grades or design a class that is easier to pass, or do a lot of hand holding then it is to deal with the accusatory "why do so many kids struggle or fail in your class?" problem. Schools don't have to face the "why are the graduation rates so low?" or the 'why aren't we as good as the neighboring district?" issue. Many just turn a blind eye and move along as if there is no problem for self preservation. Johnny eventually learns he doesn't really need to do much to be pushed through the system. If he has got a pulse, he'll graduate.

I agree with this. Keep in mind that this was 15 years ago, so things have changed some but not much. Our son was in kindergarten and we could see that school was a struggle for him. We pushed to hold him back, but they said no, he was ready for first grade. We kept pushing and pushing trying to be able to hold him back, but the teacher and the principal both said that we could not hold him back. After that, he continued to struggle with school and all through elementary school they would threaten to hold him back, but just kept pushing him through. When he got to high school and grade and credits mattered, he was past the point of no return and we were told that it was our fault because we didn't hold him back. Pandemic year was his junior year and needless to say that was a wash because if he wasn't doing his work when he had structure, there was no way he was going to do it on his own. I could have taken the whole year off and sat next to him all day long and he still wouldn't have gotten his work done. He dropped out of high school his senior year. Smart kid, just no drive or determination when it comes to academics. I often beat myself up over if things would have been different had we fought even harder to have him held back in Kindergarten and succeeded.

Sorry to hear about his/your struggle. Don't beat yourself up, because you can't possibly know what, if anything, would be different. How is he doing now? Did he find productive employment or a trade to dive into?

He is living with his dad now, working for a local farmer who has a large feedlot and farm. Was injured pretty bad at work, requiring surgery and is probably going to be laid up a few months. I asked him if he was working on his GED because now would be the perfect time to work on it. He said no, but he was going to get his chauffer's license so he can drive semi. 21 years old and plenty life in front of him, I just hope he is able to find his way and be successful in whatever he does.