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Powell is still the long play here IMO. What's a realistic over / under on how many games Ivory's hamstrings last in a featured role?
Doesn't say much about Ivory if the guy who sucks is averaging almost an entire yard more per carry, does it? None of them are all that good as NFL RBs, but Powell is the most valuable in FF because he can at least get out of his car at the stadium without pulling something.
I believe someone posted in here that Ivory, because of injury, has never played four consecutive games in either college or the NFL.
you're analysis isn't even worth reading. Powell sucks dude. ivory has averaged almost 5 ypc in his nfl career. start watching games and you might actually learn something.
If anything, they both suck, "dude." Ivory's YPC against dime defenses in NO as a change of pace back is totally irrelevant to what he's capable of as a featured RB against a steady diet of 8 in the box in NY. The Saints pull guys in off the street every year and get results d/t the passing threat.
Twas me, just so people know exactly what they're dealing with again..
This doesn't include Ivory once again re-injuring his hammy earlier in the season.
this would be a whole lot easier to debate if you actually used facts. anyways, you're entitled to your opinion.and if anything he is underrated not overrated. almost everyone in here is saying he has untapped potential and if he can stay healthy, we might get a glimpse. not sure what else to say.
Can you please list a few examples of guys the Saints pulled off the street that got rushing results?
What facts are you looking for? Ivory had good efficiency metrics in a part time role in NO, where every RB outside of Mark Ingram has looked great, up to and including UDFA Khiry Robinson this year.
Yeah. He should try using hard hitting fact based arguments like "Powell sucks dude" and the ever popular "Start watching games" to prove his points. It's solid analyses like those that keep everyone coming back for more around here.
Good stuff. Thanks.
Damn Week 8 byes.
Pierre Thomas wasn't pulled off the street. He was an UDFA out of Illinois that started over Mikel LeShoure his senior year and beat out Saints' third round pick Antonio Pittman in camp. He's shown to be a solid runner, while a highly drafted prospect has failed.
blindly stating his ypc all came from dime packages is weak and false. I don't need to provide analysis here. I want to see him play a few games with the jets prior to using ivory's ypc from Sunday as a baseline moving forward. that's actually the point here. so many of you are "what have you done for me lately" types.
No. Not the implication that is implied when some one says "The Saints pull guys in off the street every year and get results..."
Ivory's contract was 3 years at $6 million. Less than the Jets gave Mike Goodson this same offseason. It's backup money.
The point, which I'm not sure how you are entirely missing, is that virtually every RB to get touches in NO for years, outside of Mark Ingram, has put up stellar per-touch numbers. None of them were highly regarded prior to that. It's pretty strong, if circumstantial, evidence that NO is capable of making any RB look much better than they actually are. Ivory's contract, the price the Jets paid for him in the trade, the fact that NO let him go, the lack of interest in him as a RFA, the fact that he wasn't drafted in the first place, and his (lack of) performance this year all further support the idea that he's just a guy.Balanced against that we have the eyeball test of some keyboard warriors who over drafted the guy in FF.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000164740/article/chris-ivory-new-york-jets-agree-to-10m-contract
IMO being an undrafted free agent is pretty much the very definition of pulling a guy off the streets. What else would it mean?
If you are going to focus on the word "all", which CdL never used, then I absolutely agree with you. But do you really think it is unreasonable to suggest that defenses who go against the Saints might play more nickel and dime coverages then they would against the Jets? Is that really such a crazy notion?
It is not exactly accurate to say that any RB the Saints plugged in (except Ingram) performed well on a per touch basis.
Your "point" is basically based entirely off of one back, Pierre Thomas, and maybe he's just good - there have been UDFA players at every position that have far exceeded expectations. Not sure how your missing that? Mark Ingram has failed miserably and Ivory and Robinson haven't had enough carries to be statistically significant examples. Why have the Saints bothered to keep paying Thomas when any street free agent RB could be successful playing for their team?
Not a big fan of arguing semantics, sorry. Knock yourself out with the pro-Ivory crowd, however.
I have made points on both sides of the Ivory debate. You just didn't notice the other ones.
Guessing I probably know more about my cost of acquisition than do you, chief. None of the three leagues I grabbed him in use FAAB in the offseason after the rookie / FA draft, when I grabbed him in FCFS waivers after another owner cut him following the Jets' signing of Goodson and the trade for Ivory. Didn't even remember who I cut, but after checking it was Isaac Redman, Juron Criner, and Cedric Peerman. So yeah, I'll stand on "he was free."
I don't always argue semantics. But when I do, I prefer to win.
These aren't just guys off the streets. The Saints have some really good scouts and have acquired quite a few talented undrafted free agents through the hard work and knowledge of the Saints Scouting dept. and thats not just at Running back they have done it on defensive and offensive line, WR ,QB all over the place. I am not sure how this fits into this discussion topic though. If your trying to use the Saints ability to find these guys as a knock on Ivory youll have to try a bit harder. I don't see any connection.Coeur de Lion said:
