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Classic Album Discussion Thread: The Kinks-Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Pt. 1 (4 Viewers)

Great album. Could listen to it every day straight through. Used to do just that in high school. Also love 1 & 4, obviously. And the rest too. But I think 2 is a solid representative choice. With a purple umbrella and a fifty cent hat.

 
If you are into vinyl or if you are an audiophile, then you need to hear the Robert Ludwig-mastered version of Led Zeppelin II. (They will have "RL" etched into the wax near the label.) Arguably the best-sounding rock album, ever.

 
Joe Summer said:
If you are into vinyl or if you are an audiophile, then you need to hear the Robert Ludwig-mastered version of Led Zeppelin II. (They will have "RL" etched into the wax near the label.) Arguably the best-sounding rock album, ever.
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I always thought that one of Page's best talents was making good sounding records back when there were a lot of crummy sounding records.

It helps to have a solid base of tapes to work off of when doing a re-master?

 
The Robert Ludwig master was done in 1969. The later pressings were done without him (sometimes using inferior tapes).

The 1990 and 2015 remasters have their plusses and minuses, but nothing beats an original 1969 LP in my opinion.

 
Great album.  I listened to a lot of LZ back in the day, but never owned an album other than IV.  Around the time I was in college, one of their anthologies came out, and that is where I heard them mostly in the begining.  I listened to those non stop for many years.  I learned most of their songs through that, but never got the flavor for their full almbums until later.

II is great, though I listened to so much LZ in my late teens and 20s, I don't "love" most of their stuff anymore.  I wont turn it off if it comes on, but I just played it out myself.

The only exception to that is She's Just a Woman.  I can't help but crank it whenever that one comes on, still have to listen to it on 10.

 
Probably in the minority but my favorite Zep tune was off of Zeppelin IV.  When the levee breaks is there all time best.  Of course just my opinion.

 
While I have a personal love for Zep III, since it was the first one I ever bought, there is no doubting the mastery of II & IV. In my HS days I would say that Rush was the greatest band of all time, but that title goes to Zeppelin now.

I was coming home from school on the subway, psyched to be getting tickets to see them for the first time when I got home, in Philly no less so a road trip was in store. As I was talking about it, this girl I knew thought I was making a joke. I had no idea what she was talking about and did not believe her when she told me Bonham had died. I thought she was the one joking. I practically ran home, dropped everything on the floor of my room and turned on the radio. Moby **** was playing, and I knew. Devastated.

 
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Leroy Hoard said:
I always thought that one of Page's best talents was making good sounding records back when there were a lot of crummy sounding records.

It helps to have a solid base of tapes to work off of when doing a re-master?
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All of Page's session work came in handy when it came to capturing the band in the studio.  Their early records have a markedly cleaner and more modern sound than most contemporary hard rock and set the precedent for loads of recordings that followed.

LZ and LZ II both were released in 1969 but I think of them as the first rock albums of the 1970s because of their sound.

 
rustycolts said:
Probably in the minority but my favorite Zep tune was off of Zeppelin IV.  When the levee breaks is there all time best.  Of course just my opinion.
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It was always one of my favorites, but the scene in Argo really took it next level.  And if I had to choose a stand alone song that's probably it.  But it still doesn't quite get to the Heartbreaker-Living Loving Maid-Ramble On sequence.  Sequencing is a huge deal for me when it comes to music and a big reason why I'm salty about most of what's out today.  I wish I were old enough to have heard this when it initially came out, but I'll never forget when I first heard that trio one after the other.

 
Arizona Ron said:
My daughter likes a band called Greta Van Fleet.  They sound a lot like Led Zeppelin to me. I'm not mad about it though, I kinda like that there's rock bands still out there.  I'd love to see rock come back in a big way. 
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I hope these guys are not shtick - and I don't think they are.  Zeppelin redux is nice, but probably doesn't have a long shelf life.  If these guys develop though...

 
I just finished reading through this whole thread.  I cannot believe in all the replies not one mention of The Doors.  Break on through to the other side.  Also People are Strange especially these days.

 
Arizona Ron said:
My daughter likes a band called Greta Van Fleet.  They sound a lot like Led Zeppelin to me. I'm not mad about it though, I kinda like that there's rock bands still out there.  I'd love to see rock come back in a big way. 
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One of the best rock bands out of Detroit since The White Stripes 

 
jamny said:
While I have a personal love for Zep III, since it was the first one I ever bought, there is no doubting the mastery of II & IV. In my HS days I would say that Rush was the greatest band of all time, but that title goes to Zeppelin now.

I was coming home from school on the subway, psyched to be getting tickets to see them for the first time when I got home, in Philly no less so a road trip was in store. As I was talking about it, this girl I knew thought I was making a joke. I had no idea what she was talking about and did not believe her when she told me Bonham had died. I thought she was the one joking. I practically ran home, dropped everything on the floor of my room and turned on the radio. Moby **** was playing, and I knew. Devastated.
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Zeppellin is my favorite band far and away. I listened to them incessantly from 8/9th grade through college. Used to come back from class daily, throw headphones on when I had a break and take a nap with Zeppelin on. I can't remember the exact sequence of events but I was in freshmen year in college (1980) when they had announced a tour date in Buffalo. I had never seen them so this was my chance, was excited to try and get tix. At some point later, sitting in English 201, I heard Bonham had died and of course the Buffalo date was cancelled. 

My one friend from high school, I mentioned him earlier and he morphed into a punk rock guy later, in melodramatic teenager fashion, took to wearing a black armband around campus in recognition of Bonham's death. I still chuckle at that.

I'd have a hard time arguing anyone's choice as best album (mostly), so many fantastic classics. I'd probably go with 4 as "best" (not real controversial) but my personal favorite, that still gets tons of play at my house, is "Physical Graffiti". Love that album. Had just played "Presence" the other day and still play Stairway all the time. I know that's the most overplayed song in the history of forever but I just never tire of it. I might be the only one.

My first Zeppelin albums were found in stacks of my uncle's albums at my grandparents house. He had moved out and left them all behind. If I recall he had 1-4. He ended up giving me whatever I wanted from his pile. I took the Zeppelin and an Animals (I think?) album that had "House of the Rising Sun" on it. I still wonder what else he had in that pile that I left behind because I wasn't familiar with it.

So much great, interesting music from this group. Still one of my biggest disappointments that I never saw them live.

 
MAC_32 said:
I hope these guys are not shtick - and I don't think they are.  Zeppelin redux is nice, but probably doesn't have a long shelf life.  If these guys develop though...
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That is how Wolfmother started out. While I don't care for thier new stuff, they definitely were successful when they went a new direction. 

 
Joe Mammy said:
Hammer of the Gods is an interesting read although some have said it's embellished on LZ's destructive road tour habits. In Chuck Klostermans book IV he wrote that he asked Robert Plant about the book while interviewing him for Spin Magazine, Plant replied that had never even read it!

I did see LZ live in the Big Sombrero in 1977. 2.5 songs that is- a torrential downpour came soon after the concert started and the band left the stage. A riot ensued on the ground level and the cops beat the fans off the field in riot gear (I was thankfully sitting in the stands with my friends). Big headlines in the Tampa Tribune the next day, "Led Zeppelin will never be invited to Tampa again!"
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I was in the Army in 77 but I did go see them at Tampa Stadium in 73.  They broke the Beatles attendance record at that concert.

 
timschochet said:
Led Zeppelin II (1969)

Side One

Whole Lotta Love

What Is and What Should Never Be

The Lemon Song

Thank You

Side Two

Heartbreaker

Living Loving Maid (She’s Just a Woman) 

Ramble On

Moby ****

Bring It On Home

I was a bit out of my comfort zone with Rush; not so much these guys as I listened to them incessantly back in the day and sometimes still do. The only question in my mind was which album to bring up first. I chose this one because, IMO, it’s nearly flawless. I’m not going to attempt to compare it to their other great records (though by all means I invite anyone who wants to do just that). I just happen to adore every song listed above and that’s enough for me. If I had to choose a favorite? Heartbreaker. Might be my #1 guitar riff ever. So good.   
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Like A Night at the Opera this is one of those perfect classic albums. Just song after song of ear candy that I never get tired of spinning (OK, not spinning but whatever the would be the MP3/CD equivalent). Really hard to pick a favorite off of this one but if forced I'd go with The Lemon Song. Their debut was good but IMO this took them to another level.

P.S. As great as this album is my personal favorite is Physical Graffiti

P.P.S. If you don't have the remasters do you're self a favor and get em. A coworker told me they were worth the double dip and I was skeptical. He let me borrow one and comparable to my version is was a pretty stark and noticeable difference. The remasters also come with an option for bonus discs but the need for those are hit/miss. If you do get the remasters the ones where the bonus are worth it are Coda and Physical Graffiti. Coda comes with two extra discs with several new songs (i.e. St. Tristan’s Sword) and some great remixes. I dropped about $110 for the remasters (with three of them being bonus variety) and think it was worth it.

Here's a link that gives a pretty good synopsis of the bonus material: Led Zep remasters and bonus material

 
Good call on LZII - all classics no filler. Another one of those albums that is so overplayed, but for good reason. Personally I am more of a Physical Graffiti guy, but that’s just a personal preference and I love every one of their albums through Physical.

 
I lost a lot of respect for them when not only did I learn that they stole music but then when I heard the actual songs they stole, I was astonished at how blatant the copying actually was.  And these were many of the songs that ended up being their big hits. Did that ever get resolved?  Like did they end up having permission and later gave the credit to the original song writers?  They have so much talent, I don't know why they had to resort to that.  

 
Ilov80s said:
One of the best rock bands out of Detroit since The White Stripes 
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No joke...there's always one band at those weekend rock festivals that plays in the middle of the day in which I've never heard of that blows the doors off - this year, it was them.  I get that a lot of people were into them before now, but seeking out new music has fallen down my priority list.  Looking around that day I'd say I was one of about several thousand others that went from who are these guys to I need to see them again sometime over the course of an hour.

 
Scoresman said:
I lost a lot of respect for them when not only did I learn that they stole music but then when I heard the actual songs they stole, I was astonished at how blatant the copying actually was.  And these were many of the songs that ended up being their big hits. Did that ever get resolved?  Like did they end up having permission and later gave the credit to the original song writers?  They have so much talent, I don't know why they had to resort to that.  
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I think their ripoff reputation is overrated. Sure they lifted a few riffs here and there, but many artists of that era did the same. And considering their vast volume of material that was fresh and original, I think they shouldn't be scrutinized nearly as much.

FWIW, they won the lawsuit that Randy California's estate accused Stairway to Heaven of ripping off Spirit's "Taurus" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye7hCIWwhGE. Very similar sound, but it's a pretty generic riff from my understanding.

 
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zamboni said:
I think their ripoff reputation is overrated. Sure they lifted a few riffs here and there, but many artists of that era did the same. And considering their vast volume of material that was fresh and original, I think they shouldn't be scrutinized nearly as much.

FWIW, they won the lawsuit against Randy California's estate for Stairway to Heaven allegedly ripping off Spirit's "Taurus" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye7hCIWwhGE. Very similar sound, but it's a pretty generic riff from my understanding.
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Look up the dazed and confused ripoff.  It's more than just a few riffs.  

 
Jedi Knight said:
I like most of your list with a few exceptions:

Moving Pictures, Signals and Clockwork Angels are the three albums that I can listen to from beginning to end and enjoy every single song, so I have them 1-2-3.  All the rest have at least one song that I consider "meh" and I skip over.

Vapor Trails is very under-rated and I consider better than the three above it.  Especially the song Ghost Rider.

I would add Exit Stage Left as their live version of Jacob's Ladder is MUCH better than the studio version on Permanent Waves.

These are all just little nit-picks and every Rush fan has their favorites.  Most of your list is spot-on.

For the record, Rush is the only band I know that could put on a three and half hour concert one night, do another the next night and never repeat a song.  And you would have a great time at either one.  I know, I know....I'm sure some will argue that...but I'm many beers down the road- so I thought I'd throw that out.
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I totally agree about Exit Stage Left and in fact:

Red Barchetta

Broons Bane/The Trees/Xanadu

Jacobs Ladder

La Villa Strangiato

A Passage To Bangkok

Are all the best on Exit Stage Left.

I actually really like Vapor Trails too.....but I think songwriting wise is the weakest link in their entire catalog......not that I think the debut is anything special....but Working Man alone is better than anything on VT. Bastille Day the same as well as By Tor and The Snow Dog....hence why they are above VT. I can find one song on every studio album they have that is better than anything on VT. Sonically it was a trainwreck for their high standards. I was thrilled when they re-mixed it. And it's funny, most of the re-mix is much better, but some songs I prefer the crappy ### mastering job they did on the original release LOL. For the record the title track Vapor Trails is by far my favorite track on VT. Ghost Rider and Earthshine are also excellent tunes too.

 
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rustycolts said:

Thank you. How have I not heard that before?
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It was a bonus track on the 2015 re-issue of "Coda". Zep remastered all of their albums in 2015 and included "companion discs" with each album. Most of the bonus tracks are not very interesting (because they're just slightly different mixes of what we already know and love), but there are a few gems to be found:

"Sugar Mama" (unreleased song from LZI sessions)
"La La" (unfinished song from LZII sessions)
"Whole Lotta Love" (alternate vocal)
"Bring It On Home" (alternate take)
"Since I've Been Loving You" (alternate take)
"Jennings Farm Blues" (unreleased instrumental from 1969)
"Key To The Highway/Trouble In Mind" (outtake from "Hats Off To Roy Harper" session)
"St. Tristan's Sword" (unfinished song from LZIII sessions)
"Friends" (1972 recording with the Bombay Symphony Orchestra)
"Trampled Under Foot" (rough mix with vocals up front)
"Everybody Makes It Through" (early version of "In The Light")
"Royal Orleans" (alternate version with Plant impersonating the vocal stylings of Dr. John)
"10 Ribs & All" (experimental instrumental from 1975)

And they'll be releasing some more unreleased stuff later this year, to celebrate their 50th anniversary. There's a rumor of a live recording from 1968 but nothing confirmed yet.

 
Reading through this thread makes me sad that Rock has basically died.  I really hope at some point it can make a comeback.  Artist like Clapton,Duane and Greg Allman,Neil Young and so many others that were just so creative.  Makes me want to break out old Albums like Spooky Tooths you broke my heart so I busted your jaw and of course much to my wifes chagrin all of my Zappa albums.  

 
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jamny said:
See I think after looking at your list, I realize why I usually don't think any newer albums sound like "old Rush" Old Rush to me is like Caress of Steel, 2112 and Fly By Night, not Moving Pictures and Permanent Waves. I'll check out some of the newer ones mentioned though. The last one I tried listening to is Snakes and Arrows and it just felt like more of the same.
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Yep...I am a second generation Rush fan (Moving Pictures was my start). Pioneer fans began with debut, FBN, COS and 2112. 

I love that period as well. But yeah Hemispheres - Hold Your Fire for me is their ultimate prime. The progression of their song writing sound textures, and infusion of more new wave/alternative is incredible. I find it the most interesting phase of the band and the most growth they ever had. They were truly experimenting and taking in everything sonically that was going on around them.

 
MAC_32 said:
I hope these guys are not shtick - and I don't think they are.  Zeppelin redux is nice, but probably doesn't have a long shelf life.  If these guys develop though...
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They are good....but not as good as these guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MA0m1K2jW4

and this song too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnEZzLSPNZY

I have every single one of their albums......they are ####### fantastic live too. This is rocks last great hope along with The Foo Fighters, Steven Wilson and Muse right now.

Rival Sons are the truth people.

 
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rustycolts said:
Maybe I don't know where to listen.  Does not seem to be a station where I am that plays rock.  Mostly just pop and classic rock.  Is Imagine Dragons considered Rock?  I hear them quite often.
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XM/Sirus radio and listen to Octane and you will hear rock is alive and well...but classic style rock and the guitar solo are lost arts right now. But in time they will come back around. My son (taking right after me thank god) is an avid/highly skilled baseball player and rock drummer. He is a seriously talented drummer in fact. Has seriously great chops and his main influences are:

Rush

Queensryche

Dream Theater

Led Zeppelin 

Slipknot

Ghost

Porcupine Tree

 
Scoresman said:

Look up the dazed and confused ripoff. It's more than just a few riffs.
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I don't think that it's entirely fair to describe "Dazed And Confused" as a ripoff:

- Jim McCarty (Yardbirds drummer) first heard the original version of the song and presented it to the rest of the group.
- Page assumed that it was a traditional blues song.
- Page (with help from Plant) re-wrote the lyrics and added new musical parts.
- Page listed himself as the songwriter when he submitted it to the record label (which was standard practice when re-writing a traditional blues song).
- the record label's researchers ran a background check on the song and found no reason to change the writing credit.

I think that Page has a pretty good argument that he acted appropriately (at least in terms of the 1960s music industry). It's not Page's responsibility to verify if his songwriting credit was 100% accurate or not -- it's the responsibility of the record label (which didn't do enough due diligence) and the original songwriter (who voluntary chose not to file a claim).

 
rustycolts said:
Maybe I don't know where to listen.  Does not seem to be a station where I am that plays rock.  Mostly just pop and classic rock.  Is Imagine Dragons considered Rock?  I hear them quite often.
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Here's just a few bands/artists from this decade that could have been played on the radio in the 70s:

The White Stripes: My Doorbell

Ruen Brothers: All My Shades of Blue

Ray Lamontange: Jolene

Alabama Shakes: Don't Wanna Fight

Tedesci Trucks Band: Made Up My Mind

The Record Company: Life To Fix

Wilco: What Light

Amos Lee: Windows Are Rolled Down

 
Todem said:
Yep...I am a second generation Rush fan (Moving Pictures was my start). Pioneer fans began with debut, FBN, COS and 2112. 

I love that period as well. But yeah Hemispheres - Hold Your Fire for me is their ultimate prime. The progression of their song writing sound textures, and infusion of more new wave/alternative is incredible. I find it the most interesting phase of the band and the most growth they ever had. They were truly experimenting and taking in everything sonically that was going on around them.
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My musical direction also went a different way than Rush. Their original hard rock days fit right in with the bands I listened to like Zeppelin, AC/DC, Sabbath, Alice Cooper, etc. and as they went more progressive, I was going towards bands like Priest and Maiden and onto Slayer and Megadeth. I'll always have a soft spot for Rush though and never begrudge them of their success, never look at them as selling out, even as "my band", the one that most people had never heard of, gained more and more popularity. It was an amicable break-up. :D  As I listen to Counterparts right now, I get nostalgic, something I don't usually do. It's like thinking about an old girlfriend and realizing why you broke up but still remembering the good times.

 
jamny said:
My musical direction also went a different way than Rush. Their original hard rock days fit right in with the bands I listened to like Zeppelin, AC/DC, Sabbath, Alice Cooper, etc. and as they went more progressive, I was going towards bands like Priest and Maiden and onto Slayer and Megadeth. I'll always have a soft spot for Rush though and never begrudge them of their success, never look at them as selling out, even as "my band", the one that most people had never heard of, gained more and more popularity. It was an amicable break-up. :D  As I listen to Counterparts right now, I get nostalgic, something I don't usually do. It's like thinking about an old girlfriend and realizing why you broke up but still remembering the good times.
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Sweet. My personal favorites from Counterparts:

Animate

Cut To The Chase

Between Sun and Moon

Alien Shore

Double Agent

Cold Fire

Leave That Thing Alone (incredible instrumental)

Everyday Glory

Enjoy it man!!!

I also love Iron Maiden, Dio, Queensryche and Dream Theater.

 
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Todem said:
Sweet. My personal favorites from Counterparts:

Animate

Cut To The Chase

Between Sun and Moon

Alien Shore

Double Agent

Cold Fire

Leave That Thing Alone (incredible instrumental)

Everyday Glory

Enjoy it man!!!
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:lmao:  Just finished it and Stick it Out was my clear favorite.

 
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