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Classic Album Discussion Thread: The Kinks-Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Pt. 1 (2 Viewers)

Uruk-Hai said:
No hard rock band has as many great songs as Zep. But I think Deep Purple's best is better than anything Black Sabbath did (& I like Sabbath).
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Sabbath is much better than Deep Purple in my view.  But, my view is not better than yours.   Just different.  

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Machine Head is, IMO, a little better. It's their ZoSo or Paranoid. But I'm really splitting hairs here.
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Yeah, you really can’t go wrong with either Machine Head or In Rock.

I do think that the subsequent band lineup doesn’t get enough credit. Coverdale was no Gillan by any stretch, but Glenn Hughes brought another element with his soaring vocals and every bit of steady bass work that Roger Glover provided.

 
On that note, @timschochet, I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I do appreciate this thread, and your steady moderation of it.

 
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Emerson Lake & Palmer- Brain Salad Surgery (1973)

Jerusalem

Toccata

Still...You Turn Me On

Benny the Bouncer

Karn Evil 9 1st Impression Part 1

Karn Evil 9 1st Impression Part 2

Karn Evil 9 2nd Impression

Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. It’s a show in which Keith Emerson plays a dozen keyboard instruments, Greg Lake sings his lungs out, and Carl Palmer performs the bat drumming you’re going to hear anywhere (particularly on Toccata.) The best prog rock record ever? Maybe? 

 
timschochet said:
Emerson Lake & Palmer- Brain Salad Surgery (1973)

Jerusalem

Toccata

Still...You Turn Me On

Benny the Bouncer

Karn Evil 9 1st Impression Part 1

Karn Evil 9 1st Impression Part 2

Karn Evil 9 2nd Impression

Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. It’s a show in which Keith Emerson plays a dozen keyboard instruments, Greg Lake sings his lungs out, and Carl Palmer performs the bat drumming you’re going to hear anywhere (particularly on Toccata.) The best prog rock record ever? Maybe? 
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Emerson should have stuck to one keyboard - the piano - and had a time limit on how long he could solo during each song. He was talented, but so overboard and his playing so bloated that he was a parody of what he thought he was. I ate this crap up when I was a pretentious kid, but I saw it for what it was when I became a pretentious adult.

"Still...You Turn Me On" is a really good song, though. So is "From The Beginning" and "Lucky Man" (until Emerson ruins it towards the end). All three are Lake ballads and it's fitting that these three get the most classic rock radio play these days rather than ELP's more "ambitious" stuff, which has not aged well at all.

 
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Not the best prog rock record ever. It's not even the best ELP record! 

I was a huge ELP fan in my younger days, but I rarely listen to them anymore. I still like some of their material a lot, but some of their bombast is a bit much.  And they were a bunch of arrogant guys, so when you factor that in with the style of their music, it's no wonder they were called pretentious, and then that word got attached to bands lumped into the prog rock pool even though many were not.  ELP is much to blame for the negative stereotypical opinion that many have of progressive rock in general.

All that aside, I still like about half of this album a lot.  The first two parts of Karn Evil 9 are great, and the other "hits," Jerusalem and Still...You Turn Me On, are still really good.  

 
I would agree that while ELP is fantastically talented, their material is often hit or miss. You could certainly pull some of their best material from the debut, Tarkus, Brain Salad Surgery and Trilogy into a sensational double album, but any single album has some overkill.

Talent wise, I’d call it a push among them, Yes and King Crimson, but the latter two had a better output of individual albums.

 
Is it me or does ‘Benny’ not really fit with the rest of the album? Seems kinda off.

‘Still...’ is such a great song. Love Greg Lake’s voice. Karn Evil 9 1st Pt. 2 is one of my all time favorites.

 
Mr. Ected said:
‘Still...’ is such a great song. Love Greg Lake’s voice.
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Agreed - It’s a really cool song. Although one of the weirder rhyming lyrics:

Every day a little sadder
A little madder?
Someone get me a ladder

Wish my ladder had that much power.

 
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Uruk-Hai said:
Emerson should have stuck to one keyboard - the piano - and had a time limit on how long he could solo during each song. He was talented, but so overboard and his playing so bloated that he was a parody of what he thought he was. I ate this crap up when I was a pretentious kid, but I saw it for what it was when I became a pretentious adult.

"Still...You Turn Me On" is a really good song, though. So is "From The Beginning" and "Lucky Man" (until Emerson ruins it towards the end). All three are Lake ballads and it's fitting that these three get the most classic rock radio play these days rather than ELP's more "ambitious" stuff, which has not aged well at all.
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This is prettymuch my feeling too. 

 
I was around 12-13 years old when I first "heard" ELP. It was 1984, and I used to fall asleep listening to the radio. One night, I was listening to a song that just absolutely blew me away. I had never heard anything like it before, and I was simply hooked. I hoped that at the end, the DJ would mention the artist/song. For whatever reason, I was sleeping on the floor in my room at the time... my head underneath my desk. When the song finished, the DJ gave me the info. I quickly grabbed a pencil and wrote it down on the underside of my desk. I didn't want to forget. I don't remember if I wrote down Emerson, Lake & Palmer, but I definitely remember writing down "TRILOGY". I've been a huge fan ever since.

 
jwb said:
This is prettymuch my feeling too. 
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A ginormous ELP fan, i always thought of the ballads as no more than contrast for them, like when i first moved to New Mexico and the abuelitas would trick you into eating something way too hot for you, but always had crema at the ready. Here's your pablum, can we get back to the fire now?!

 
wikkidpissah said:
A ginormous ELP fan, i always thought of the ballads as no more than contrast for them, like when i first moved to New Mexico and the abuelitas would trick you into eating something way too hot for you, but always had crema at the ready. Here's your pablum, can we get back to the fire now?!
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I have no idea what this really means, but now I have no choice but to give BSS another listen. You rock, Wikkid. 

 
The Cars (1978)

Good Times Roll

My Best Friend’s Girl

Just What I Needed

I’m In Touch With Your World

Don’t Cha Stop

You’re All I Got Tonight

Bye Bye Love

Moving In Stereo

All Mixed Up 

I was planning on selecting this album a lot earlier but that was back when we were doing classic rock only and there was some debate as to whether or not this was classic rock or New Wave. Whatever it is, it’s a bunch of pop songs that still sound fresh 40 years later. For me these guys were much like the Steve Miller band in that they were fun, catchy, loud rock and roll, without pretense. They have a number of pretty good albums, but the first one falls into great category (although CandyO comes close, and has the best album cover ever.) 

 
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Not a huge Cars fan, but this album is iconic and awesome.  1978 was a terrific year for New Wave, Punk, and Synth Pop.  Glad these guys are in the RNRHOF.

 
During my brief time working at an AOR/Classic Rock station, me and another guy went through our playlists trying to find the perfect classic rock album, based on how many songs from a single album we played.  This was in the mid 90s.  We were shocked to see that The Cars was right up there with Zep IV and Boston's debut with the most songs.  It's Classic Rock Radio perfection.  We played six tunes from this one in heavy rotation.  

Moving in Stereo

Bets Friend's Girl

Just What I Needed

By Bye Love

You're All I've Got Tonight

Good Times Roll

 
Well, i'm partial because i've known Greg Hawkes since i was 16 from living at the same loosely-cubiclized loft when i was a runaway and he was a student @ Berklee School of Music and supported him thru his first two bands - Orphan & Fabulous Furniture (getting to know the great Martin Mull in the process) - and because when Ric Ocasek bought Intermedia Studios in Boston he gave free or heavily discounted studio time to several bands i was connected with (Ocasek really had a vision, once he renamed it Synchrosound, of being to New Wave what Bearsville in Woodstock had been to Rock and gave significant support to a lot of talented folk in the process)

The Cars were two great bands. Their greatest accomplishment may have been as the only assemblage of musicians who could stand Ben Orr for more than twelve seconds. The Brian Jones of his time, Ben had all the talent in the world but a vision of himself that no one else could see nor abide. Had he found his Keith Richards or Steve Stevens, we would be talking about one of his albums during this thread. Instead he found a superior musician and person who appreciated him enough to integrate him into what he was doing. The results were quite remarkable.

 
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I have a soft spot for The Cars. Very fresh and new sound when they came out that does seem to hold up well. Very much a soundtrack of my youth type album. Great vocals, tight musicianship.

 
wikkidpissah said:
Well, i'm partial because i've known Greg Hawkes since i was 16 from living at the same loosely-cubiclized loft when i was a runaway and he was a student @ Berklee School of Music and supported him thru his first two bands - Orphan & Fabulous Furniture (getting to know the great Martin Mull in the process) - and because when Ric Ocasek bought Intermedia Studios in Boston he gave free or heavily discounted studio time to several bands i was connected with (Ocasek really had a vision, once he renamed it Synchrosound, of being to New Wave what Bearsville in Woodstock had been to Rock and gave significant support to a lot of talented folk in the process)

The Cars were two great bands. Their greatest accomplishment may have been as the only assemblage of musicians who could stand Ben Orr for more than twelve seconds. The Brian Jones of his time, Ben had all the talent in the world but a vision of himself that no one else could see nor abide. Had he found his Keith Richards or Steve Stevens, we would be talking about one of his albums during this thread. Instead he found a superior musician and person who appreciated him enough to integrate him into what he was doing. The results were quite remarkable.
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That's quite the take. Thanks for that, man. Ric Ocasek and the Bad Brains "Rock For Light" compilation remix is a thing of legend in punk circles. Not in a good way, of course, but I love how Ocasek went off the beaten path in a lot of different ways. Ocasek was also behind the controls for Weezer's first album and their second eponymous "Green Album," the likes of which are still being played on travel resort commercials everywhere, for good or ill. 

But Ocasek and that whole Mass. Ave. scene (as Rhino would call it) is fascinating to me, mainly because one always thinks of NY and No Wave/New Wave, but Boston, its younger brother, had a pretty darn good scene to begin with.  

 
It's interesting that while Ocasek was seen as the front man, the hits are prettymuch split evenly between him and Orr singing. But they also sound similar enough that one could be forgiven for thinking the band had one singer.

 
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WhatDoIKnow said:
Maybe the best 4 songs to close out an album (IMO).  All Mixed Up is my favorite,
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Their debut is great. The four songs you mentioned make up all of side two on the album, and they perfectly flow right into one another. "All Mixed Up" is also my favorite. 

 
Agree with everyone here. Every song is good and still sounds fresh. I imagine for awhile The Cars were written off as 80s fluff. I know that is how many I knew viewed them in the early- mid 90s. I think over time the significance of their influence on rock has grown. Also, I like that they considered calling the it "The Cars Greatest Hits" which would be an incredible level of balls for a debut album but damn if the name doesn't fit. You could put this album up against the greatest hits of any 80s bands and The Cars hang track for track. 

 
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One odd thing about the Cars is they are known as a terrible live concert act.  I saw them in the early 80's and was incredibly hyped.  They did all the songs, but it was one of the most boring and disappointing live acts I've seen.  I gave them another chance a few yeas later - same thing. Since then, I've heard the same story from others many times over.

Great record though - an all timer.

 
Ilov80s said:
Agree with everyone here. Every song is good and still sounds fresh. I imagine for awhile The Cars were written off as 80s fluff. I know that is how many I knew viewed them in the early- mid 90s. I think over time the significance of their influence on rock has grown. Also, I like that they almost considred calling "The Cars Greatest Hits" which would be an incredible level of balls for a debut album but damn if the name doesn't fit. You could put this album up against the greatest hits of any 80s bands and The Cars hang track for track. 
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That is a good take.  I never really thought about how great this record was.  When these songs were being rolled out, it just seemed like good 80s music.  Now, it has to be considered one of the best debuts albums.  I have heard these songs so many times and they haven't gotten old.  

Tim nailed this selection. 

 
jwb said:
It's interesting that while Ocasek was seen as the front man, the hits are prettymuch split evenly between him and Orr singing. But they also sound similar enough that one could be forgiven for thinking the band had one singer.
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Ive heard people say this before but they sound nothing alike imo. Ric has a quirky stylized approach and Ben was much more melodic which shines through when he sang backup as well

 
I like longtime Globe music guy Jim Sullivan’s take on The Cars

Musically, the sleek, Roxy Music-influenced band often brought a detached sort of cool — like the "frozen fire" girl they sing about in "Let’s Go" — to the catchiest of songs.

The Cars formed in 1976, its members coming from various other groups. They began life playing in the Boston clubs like the Rat, bringing a more synth-and-guitar oriented sound to the punk world. Boston Phoenix critic M. Howell, who covered them in those early days, praised their “cohesion and polish” and their ability to be “pop yet sophisticated, yet pull off the masterstroke of being both intelligent and emotional, no easy matter.”

The Cars took their place among emerging new bands that crashed the mainstream like the Police, Talking Heads, Devo and The Pretenders. Back in 1995, Hawkes said, “I always thought of us as a pop-art band, in the Warhol sense certainly, but also we were pop and sort of arty."

What the Cars did was bring a certain moodiness, quirkiness and ironic detachment to the mainstream with songs like "Just What I Needed," "My Best Friend's Girl," "Good Times Roll" and "You're All I've Got Tonight" — also, major league pop hooks from Ocasek and a textural sensibility. Other reference points: the Velvet Underground, Suicide, Kraftwerk.

They became one of the rare bands spawned by punk rock that broadened the terms without losing the edge. A minimalistic, Beat-inspired lyricist, singer-guitarist Ric Ocasek put wry twists on pop cliches, worked with paradoxes and wrote, time and time again, about women who — if you conjured them up — seemed to be gorgeous, icy, dangerous or unattainable. It wasn't that Ocasek's and Orr's vocals had no emotion, but there was a distance. They were the voices of someone, a desperate romantic maybe, trying to connect, but not quite able to do it.
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Bruce Dickinson said:
I'm just a wee bit too young to catch The Cars debut in real time (Heartbeat City was my formal introduction to The Cars), so I didn't have the same "what a revelation" reaction to the debut album than those who were around for it.  But it's a terrific album from a band that clearly belongs in the RNRHOF, and I'll +1 everyone who has discussed how well their music has aged.  IMO The Cars are underrated as an influence on a lot of 90s/00s artists: that guitar riff from No Doubt's first single is a straight-up Cars derivative.  
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Definitely on the bolded. It's obvious that a lot of the indie darlings of the last 20 years listened to these guys.

I resisted this album when it came out for a couple of reasons: a) the d1ckwad preppies and jocks I was in HS with loved it so I had to hate it and b) I listened almost exclusively to AOR (dying though it was) and black rock radio.

I couldn't hold out long, though, because this record is straight loaded with goodness. Great melodies, hooks flying everywhere, fantastic playing, singing, and writing.

 
timschochet said:
For me these guys were much like the Steve Miller band in that they were fun, catchy, loud rock and roll, without pretense
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I’d love to give you a Singapore caning for even mentioning these two in the same sentence. To quote the late great Boston pol Dapper O’Neil

“For Chrissakes, it makes you sick, for Chrissake “

 
I'll put this here just because - skip to the bolded if the background is tldr material. My wife got me a subscription to Modern Drummer, including their digital archives, for Fathers Day, and I've been reading their back issues, starting with their first one in 1977. I'm up to the April 1978 issue now, which has Carmine Appice as the cover/featured artist interview. As I read through these, I go back and listen to/watch whoever it is they've interviewed. So with Appice his first prominent role was as the drummer for Vanilla Fudge. Can someone explain Vanilla Fudge to me? They're pretty horrible. Were they sort of embracing campiness or were they actually in earnest with their act? I couldn't listen to/watch much of their stuff before moving on. Fortunately Appice's next big gig was with Cactus (which was basically started by him and another guy from Vanilla Fudge) - I've enjoyed listening to that act much, much more than Vanilla Fudge. Solid hard rock act there.

 
Gr00vus said:
I'll put this here just because - skip to the bolded if the background is tldr material. My wife got me a subscription to Modern Drummer, including their digital archives, for Fathers Day, and I've been reading their back issues, starting with their first one in 1977. I'm up to the April 1978 issue now, which has Carmine Appice as the cover/featured artist interview. As I read through these, I go back and listen to/watch whoever it is they've interviewed. So with Appice his first prominent role was as the drummer for Vanilla Fudge. Can someone explain Vanilla Fudge to me? They're pretty horrible. Were they sort of embracing campiness or were they actually in earnest with their act? I couldn't listen to/watch much of their stuff before moving on. Fortunately Appice's next big gig was with Cactus (which was basically started by him and another guy from Vanilla Fudge) - I've enjoyed listening to that act much, much more than Vanilla Fudge. Solid hard rock act there.
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VF was definitely an interesting band. Very talented, but also very hit or miss. Almost tried to be *too* psychedelic in a psychedelic era.

As you said, Appice and Tim Bogert left Fudge to start Cactus. Agreed a very solid hard rock band - I’ve heard several later metal bands cite them as influences.

Appice and Bogert also did some solid work when they joined forces as Beck, Bogert & Appice. Some of Appice’s best later work came as Rod Stewart’s drummer - the combination of him and bass player Phil Chen (who also played with Beck) was a dynamite rhythm section.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
One odd thing about the Cars is they are known as a terrible live concert act.  I saw them in the early 80's and was incredibly hyped.  They did all the songs, but it was one of the most boring and disappointing live acts I've seen.  I gave them another chance a few yeas later - same thing. Since then, I've heard the same story from others many times over.

Great record though - an all timer.
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I've never seen the Cars live.  But they were my wife's first concert, in 1984, and she had the same experience as you.  They must've really been terrible in concert.

I agree, great album, though.

 
Warren Zevon- Excitable Boy- 1978

Johnny Strikes Up the Band

Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner

Excitable Boy

Werewolves of London

Accidentally Like a Martyr

Night Time in the Switching Yard

Veracruz

Tenderness on the Block

Lawyers, Guns and Money

Zevon was an amazing songwriter and this is his best overall effort. I find “Night Time in the Switching Yard”’to be kind of forgettable; every other song here is a classic. The title song is a rather disturbing narrative of a rapist/murderer. “Werewolves” is one of the great rock songs ever. My favorite is the opening “Johnny Strikes Up the Band”. Just a brilliant record. 

 
Warren Zevon is my all-time favorite artist.  Thanks for this one, Tim.

I think his eponymous album is better (certainly different), but this is the one everybody knows and your analysis is right on (Nighttime in the Switching Yard is pure filler, the rest is great).

Here's an excellent article from just last week on the 15th anniversary of his death.

 
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