*** Complain about the officials thread *** (1 Viewer)

[Evilgrin 72]

I just heard from reliable imaginary sources out of the league office that the AFSAFARE (adjusted final score acounting for all referee error) is 24 to 28. No word yet on which score gets assigned to which team.

DW is the greatest.

 

[PsychoMan]

The Stevens catch/fumble may have benefitted the Seahawks more if it were called. They ended up punting the ball out of the endzone after that. Maybe the change of possession on the fumble could have pinned the Steelers deeper in their own territory. The calls that hurt the Seahawks directly influenced the outcome of the game. The so-called bad calls against the Steelers indirectly effected the game, at best.

Yeah, and MAYBE Alexander fumbles at the 1 after the holding call on Locklear, and the Seahawks come away with nothing. Don't say it can't happen - I saw it happen two weeks ago to a guy who fumbles less than Alexander.That's just it - the people killing the officials are so quick to assume that this play or that play cost the Seahawks all these points, but any call that went against the Steelers "didn't directly affect the game." How do you know that Seattle even scores the one TD they had if the call an illegal block in the back on that INT return. If they do, it's 15 yards from the spot of the foul, which sets Seattle up at around their own 25 or 30, rather than the Pittsburgh 20. How does this not affect the outcome of the game?

If the ONE D-Jax touchdown that was called back for the interference call WAS a touchdown, they would have been down 21-14. The entire end of the game would have been played differently knowing they were down by one score and not two.

 

[CalBear]

You want some cheese with that whine?

 

[3C's]

The block in the back on Roethlisberger is a blatant no-call. He's running down the sideline trying to get an angle on the guy and gets blasted squarely in the back. Even my mother jumped up and yelled about that, and she is a Giants fan. No flag.

Even my wife saw that one. And she's not a football fan at all. Her comments:"Hey, that guy pushed #7 down from behind. He can't do that can he? And why was number 99 in green or blue, or whatever that is, grabbing his butt while he's running down the field."

(#99 appeared to cramp up)

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Maybe he knocks it out of bounds, but we were never given a chance to find out.  That is certainly more of a judgment call than the Jackson non-TD I am STILL seeing people gripe about, even though it was clearly out of bounds.

That call on Jackson was an easy one. He never came close to getting both feet down in bounds.

And maybe blocks in the back happen on every return, but they're still penalties.  What is bewildering me is that people seem to be conceding that half of these "awful" calls, were in fact penalties, but "shouldn't have been called." (Not saying this is YOUR contention, but it is the contention of some others.)

My argument would be that the tick-tacky stuff was called on Seattle, but not Pittsburgh:-Jackson being called for OPI on a touchdown, but Ward wasn't on the long pass to the 2 when his hand check was just as blatant.

-Seattle having a long play brought back on a questionable holding call and Pittsbrugh scoring minutes later on a long play when they had a hold just as blatant, if not moreso.

Hey, I will (and have) fully concede that overall, the Seahawks got the short end of the stick on the officiating. Bottom line though : it was a few ticky-tack calls that happened to go the Steelers' way. Certainly, Seattle still had tons of chances to win the game, and I can (and have) tick off 10 reasons that were totally in Seattle's control that did more to cost them the game than a few calls.I have seen MUCH more poorly officiated games generate less outcry. I think people just like to egg us Steeler fans on because they know we'll rise to what we know damn well is stinky bait.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah, and MAYBE Alexander fumbles at the 1 after the holding call on Locklear, and the Seahawks come away with nothing. Don't say it can't happen - I saw it happen two weeks ago to a guy who fumbles less than Alexander.

Well, many who have argued that Roethlisberger didn't score on his run have said it is very likely Pitt goes for it on 4th down and probably scores the next play anyway, so I think it is only fair to concede that Seattle likely would have scored following 1st and goal from the 2 as well, especially considering Seattle has the best goalline back in football.

That's just it - the people killing the officials are so quick to assume that this play or that play cost the Seahawks all these points, but any call that went against the Steelers "didn't directly affect the game." How do you know that Seattle even scores the one TD they had if the call an illegal block in the back on that INT return. If they do, it's 15 yards from the spot of the foul, which sets Seattle up at around their own 25 or 30, rather than the Pittsburgh 20. How does this not affect the outcome of the game?

Considering that Seattle had several punt returns brought back in the first half as a result on phantom penalties, I say the block in the back on Roethlisberger was karma.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The Stevens catch/fumble may have benefitted the Seahawks more if it were called. They ended up punting the ball out of the endzone after that. Maybe the change of possession on the fumble could have pinned the Steelers deeper in their own territory. The calls that hurt the Seahawks directly influenced the outcome of the game. The so-called bad calls against the Steelers indirectly effected the game, at best.

Yeah, and MAYBE Alexander fumbles at the 1 after the holding call on Locklear, and the Seahawks come away with nothing. Don't say it can't happen - I saw it happen two weeks ago to a guy who fumbles less than Alexander.That's just it - the people killing the officials are so quick to assume that this play or that play cost the Seahawks all these points, but any call that went against the Steelers "didn't directly affect the game." How do you know that Seattle even scores the one TD they had if the call an illegal block in the back on that INT return. If they do, it's 15 yards from the spot of the foul, which sets Seattle up at around their own 25 or 30, rather than the Pittsburgh 20. How does this not affect the outcome of the game?

If the ONE D-Jax touchdown that was called back for the interference call WAS a touchdown, they would have been down 21-14. The entire end of the game would have been played differently knowing they were down by one score and not two.

And Holmgren still would have butchered the clock management and the Steelers still would have won.

 

[yellowdog]

You're reaching. Who are trying to convince? Feeling guilty? Just enjoy the gift win the best you can.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If the ONE D-Jax touchdown that was called back for the interference call WAS a touchdown, they would have been down 21-14. The entire end of the game would have been played differently knowing they were down by one score and not two.

Exactly. And let us not forget the refs allowing Pittsburgh to call a timeout after the play clock had hit zero. They converted a third down on the next play.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Yeah, and MAYBE Alexander fumbles at the 1 after the holding call on Locklear, and the Seahawks come away with nothing.  Don't say it can't happen - I saw it happen two weeks ago to a guy who fumbles less than Alexander.

Well, many who have argued that Roethlisberger didn't score on his run have said it is very likely Pitt goes for it on 4th down and probably scores the next play anyway, so I think it is only fair to concede that Seattle likely would have scored following 1st and goal from the 2 as well, especially considering Seattle has the best goalline back in football.

That's just it - the people killing the officials are so quick to assume that this play or that play cost the Seahawks all these points, but any call that went against the Steelers "didn't directly affect the game."  How do you know that Seattle even scores the one TD they had if the call an illegal block in the back on that INT return.  If they do, it's 15 yards from the spot of the foul, which sets Seattle up at around their own 25 or 30, rather than the Pittsburgh 20.  How does this not affect the outcome of the game?

Considering that Seattle had several punt returns brought back in the first half as a result on phantom penalties, I say the block in the back on Roethlisberger was karma.

Fine, but you can't have it both ways. If it was karma and was a make-up for calls that didn't go Seattle's way, then people need to drop this "refs gave the Steelers the game" argument. If you contend the refs called the whole game one-sidedly towards Pittsburgh, you cannot defend that non-call.

 

[3MTA3]

The Stevens catch/fumble may have benefitted the Seahawks more if it were called. They ended up punting the ball out of the endzone after that. Maybe the change of possession on the fumble could have pinned the Steelers deeper in their own territory. The calls that hurt the Seahawks directly influenced the outcome of the game. The so-called bad calls against the Steelers indirectly effected the game, at best.

I completely agree with this. I noticed the same thing - they would have recovered the ball deep in their own territory anyway; it wouldn't have affected the game at all. The calls that hurt the Seahawks DID directly influence the game much much more. People shouldn't be comparing the "calls that hurt the Steelers" with them.

See, now here's where those that are complaining are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Because the subsequent play(s) after the fumble amounted to nothing, then it's pretty much a "who cares" attitude about this blown call. However, because of what transpired after the holding call, that one goes into the book as "egregious". Blame this game on the refs all you want, there were bad calls on both sides, the Steelers made the best of the blown calls against them and Seattle did nothing to overcome theirs.

 

[The Jerk]

The Stevens catch/fumble may have benefitted the Seahawks more if it were called. They ended up punting the ball out of the endzone after that. Maybe the change of possession on the fumble could have pinned the Steelers deeper in their own territory. The calls that hurt the Seahawks directly influenced the outcome of the game. The so-called bad calls against the Steelers indirectly effected the game, at best.

Yeah, and MAYBE Alexander fumbles at the 1 after the holding call on Locklear, and the Seahawks come away with nothing. Don't say it can't happen - I saw it happen two weeks ago to a guy who fumbles less than Alexander.That's just it - the people killing the officials are so quick to assume that this play or that play cost the Seahawks all these points, but any call that went against the Steelers "didn't directly affect the game." How do you know that Seattle even scores the one TD they had if the call an illegal block in the back on that INT return. If they do, it's 15 yards from the spot of the foul, which sets Seattle up at around their own 25 or 30, rather than the Pittsburgh 20. How does this not affect the outcome of the game?

If the ONE D-Jax touchdown that was called back for the interference call WAS a touchdown, they would have been down 21-14. The entire end of the game would have been played differently knowing they were down by one score and not two.

And Pittsburgh would have tried to score points rather than just kill clock if their lead was 7 instead of 11.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

You're reaching. Who are trying to convince? Feeling guilty? Just enjoy the gift win the best you can.

I'm reaching? you're coming up with hypothetical scenarios of what MIGHT have happened if certain plays went a different way, and I'm reaching ?

 

[3MTA3]

The Stevens catch/fumble may have benefitted the Seahawks more if it were called. They ended up punting the ball out of the endzone after that. Maybe the change of possession on the fumble could have pinned the Steelers deeper in their own territory. The calls that hurt the Seahawks directly influenced the outcome of the game. The so-called bad calls against the Steelers indirectly effected the game, at best.

Yeah, and MAYBE Alexander fumbles at the 1 after the holding call on Locklear, and the Seahawks come away with nothing. Don't say it can't happen - I saw it happen two weeks ago to a guy who fumbles less than Alexander.That's just it - the people killing the officials are so quick to assume that this play or that play cost the Seahawks all these points, but any call that went against the Steelers "didn't directly affect the game." How do you know that Seattle even scores the one TD they had if the call an illegal block in the back on that INT return. If they do, it's 15 yards from the spot of the foul, which sets Seattle up at around their own 25 or 30, rather than the Pittsburgh 20. How does this not affect the outcome of the game?

If the ONE D-Jax touchdown that was called back for the interference call WAS a touchdown, they would have been down 21-14. The entire end of the game would have been played differently knowing they were down by one score and not two.

Exactly, so instead of sitting on a lead, the Steelers drive down to score another TD. We can do this all day long.

 

[Ghost Rider]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/n...tory?id=2321636

SEATTLE -- Despite the Seahawks' disappointing Super Bowl loss, thousands of Seattle fans showed up Monday at Qwest Field to welcome the players home and congratulate them on their season.

Coach Mike Holmgren told the homecoming crowd that some of the officials' calls from Sunday's 21-10 loss still rankled.

"We knew it was going to be tough going up against the Pittsburgh Steelers," Holmgren said. "I didn't know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts as well."

The fans roared their agreement.

"Refs suck!" they shouted in unison.

The focus of the fans' rage, a day after their team lost in Seattle's first trip to the Super Bowl, included a Darrell Jackson touchdown catch that was taken away by a penalty and a disputed TD run by Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger.

One call robbed the Seahawks of a touchdown; the other gave the Steelers a touchdown.

"The officiating left a lot to be desired," said Dale Baxman, a fan who took a half-day off work to attend the rally.

Vicky Phillips, another fan, was more direct.

"I think we need new refs," she said.

But more than griping about the officials, the fans, collectively referred to as the team's "12th Man," turned out to thank their team.

"I'm here to support them, let them know it's all right," said Tracy Rogers of Seattle, who called in sick -- brokenhearted, really -- to join the crowd. The Seahawks estimated attendance at about 15,000 although other observers thought the crowd was smaller.

Teenagers Malissa Dunn, Nickey Horgan and Gena Copley took a parents-sanctioned day off from school to paint their faces blue and green and score a front-row seat.

"We won in our hearts," said Horgan, 15. "We're still No. 1."

Gov. Chris Gregoire, who traveled to Detroit to watch the game, told fans to be proud of the team that won the NFC Championship, has the league MVP in Shaun Alexander and boasts seven Pro Bowlers.

Holmgren and other team officials praised the raucous legion of fans who are known for raising the decibel level in Qwest Field to among the loudest in the NFL.

"We just want to thank you for sticking with us all season," he said.

The entire Seahawks squad took the stage under an unusually sunny Seattle sky.

"I just want to thank you for your unwavering support," linebacker Lofa Tatupu said.

Alexander drew cheers -- and perhaps raised hopes -- with his comments about next year's Super Bowl XLI in sunny Florida. The star running back's contract is expiring and, if the team doesn't re-sign him before March 3, he will become one of the league's most coveted free agents.

"Next year, our last game of the season will be a win in Miami," he told the crowd.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The Stevens catch/fumble may have benefitted the Seahawks more if it were called. They ended up punting the ball out of the endzone after that. Maybe the change of possession on the fumble could have pinned the Steelers deeper in their own territory. The calls that hurt the Seahawks directly influenced the outcome of the game. The so-called bad calls against the Steelers indirectly effected the game, at best.

I completely agree with this. I noticed the same thing - they would have recovered the ball deep in their own territory anyway; it wouldn't have affected the game at all. The calls that hurt the Seahawks DID directly influence the game much much more. People shouldn't be comparing the "calls that hurt the Steelers" with them.

See, now here's where those that are complaining are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Because the subsequent play(s) after the fumble amounted to nothing, then it's pretty much a "who cares" attitude about this blown call. However, because of what transpired after the holding call, that one goes into the book as "egregious". Blame this game on the refs all you want, there were bad calls on both sides, the Steelers made the best of the blown calls against them and Seattle did nothing to overcome theirs.

Exactly, and that's the whole point. Yeah, the refs missed some calls in this game, but it happens in every game. Those contending that it was ALL one-siedde are incorrect. Those claiming that it cost Seattle the game are more interested in using a quick and easy excuse instead of acknowledging all the things Seattle could have done to win, but didn't.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Fine, but you can't have it both ways. If it was karma and was a make-up for calls that didn't go Seattle's way, then people need to drop this "refs gave the Steelers the game" argument. If you contend the refs called the whole game one-sidedly towards Pittsburgh, you cannot defend that non-call.

The karma comment was a joke, hence the . Okay, let's assume they did blow that call on Roethlisberger being blocked in the punt. That still makes blown or bad calls at like 8-1 in favor of the Steelers.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

[Coach Mike Holmgren told the homecoming crowd that some of the officials' calls from Sunday's 21-10 loss still rankled.

"We knew it was going to be tough going up against the Pittsburgh Steelers," Holmgren said. "I didn't know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts as well."

Mike. That's not going to help you get calls going forward. Take a page from Cowher's book after the (much much much more horrible) Polamalu call and simply say the guys are human and sometimes make mistakes, but you have to overcome that as a team and leave it behind you.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Fine, but you can't have it both ways.  If it was karma and was a make-up for calls that didn't go Seattle's way, then people need to drop this "refs gave the Steelers the game" argument.  If you contend the refs called the whole game one-sidedly towards Pittsburgh, you cannot defend that non-call.

The karma comment was a joke, hence the . Okay, let's assume they did blow that call on Roethlisberger being blocked in the punt. That still makes blown or bad calls at like 8-1 in favor of the Steelers.

I know - my response was aimed at you, but rather the excuse-makers out there. And I disagree, I think it was more like 3-2 in favor of the Steelers, that's my point. Yes, Seattle got the short end of it, but not enough to claim a resounding 11-point win (which wouldn't have been that close were it not for an uncharacteristically brutal INT by Roethlisberger) was a "gift" win, like some of these fishermen would have you believe.

 

[Ghost Rider]

[Coach Mike Holmgren told the homecoming crowd that some of the officials' calls from Sunday's 21-10 loss still rankled.

"We knew it was going to be tough going up against the Pittsburgh Steelers," Holmgren said. "I didn't know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts as well."

Mike. That's not going to help you get calls going forward. Take a page from Cowher's book after the (much much much more horrible) Polamalu call and simply say the guys are human and sometimes make mistakes, but you have to overcome that as a team and leave it behind you.

Wouldn't you agree that it is much easier to bite your tongue about one bad call in a game you still ended up winning that it is about having numerous bad calls go against you in a Super Bowl loss?

 

[jurb26]

If the ONE D-Jax touchdown that was called back for the interference call WAS a touchdown, they would have been down 21-14. The entire end of the game would have been played differently knowing they were down by one score and not two.

Exactly. And let us not forget the refs allowing Pittsburgh to call a timeout after the play clock had hit zero. They converted a third down on the next play.

Yes, that pentalty did take away a TD. So why don't you direct you're hissy fit towards the guilty party, DJax. He DID push off and it WAS a pentalty. I agree that their where questionable calls in this game, but this was not one of them.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

[Coach Mike Holmgren told the homecoming crowd that some of the officials' calls from Sunday's 21-10 loss still rankled.

"We knew it was going to be tough going up against the Pittsburgh Steelers," Holmgren said. "I didn't know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts as well."

Mike. That's not going to help you get calls going forward. Take a page from Cowher's book after the (much much much more horrible) Polamalu call and simply say the guys are human and sometimes make mistakes, but you have to overcome that as a team and leave it behind you.

Wouldn't you agree that it is much easier to bite your tongue about one bad call in a game you still ended up winning that it is about having numerous bad calls go against you in a Super Bowl loss?

MUCH easier. Doesn't mean Holmgren still shouldn't have done so. is it going to help him with the refs going forward? Is it going to help his team next year to give them excuses why they lost?

 

[Newman]

It seems like Steeler fans think that if they argue about it long enough, they're going to change the minds of those that think Seattle got screwed.

It's kind of like the argument about whether or not USC should've been able claim a share of the title a couple of years ago. Neither side will ever be able to convince the other. Arguing about it is a somewhat fruitless exercise.

 

[PsychoMan]

[Coach Mike Holmgren told the homecoming crowd that some of the officials' calls from Sunday's 21-10 loss still rankled.

"We knew it was going to be tough going up against the Pittsburgh Steelers," Holmgren said. "I didn't know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts as well."

Mike. That's not going to help you get calls going forward. Take a page from Cowher's book after the (much much much more horrible) Polamalu call and simply say the guys are human and sometimes make mistakes, but you have to overcome that as a team and leave it behind you.

I think we all understand that Seattle wasn't able to overcome some of these calls, and Pittsburg did in the past and blah blah blah Pittsburg won - we know that. The Polamalu call was much more horrible, but Pittsburg won that game - thats why we didn't hear cowher or all of the pro-Pitt posters complaining about it. You have to at least admit that IF (as a pitt fan) you would have been in the other fans shoes, you would be pretty pissed as well.Pittsburg won; they had a great finish to their season, we're all happy for Cowher and Bettis and polamalaual etc ... but at least admit that you would have some complaints of your own if you hadn't won a super bowl because of a series of questionable calls ...

 

[Ghost Rider]

If the ONE D-Jax touchdown that was called back for the interference call WAS a touchdown, they would have been down 21-14. The entire end of the game would have been played differently knowing they were down by one score and not two.

Exactly. And let us not forget the refs allowing Pittsburgh to call a timeout after the play clock had hit zero. They converted a third down on the next play.

Yes, that pentalty did take away a TD. So why don't you direct you're hissy fit towards the guilty party, DJax. He DID push off and it WAS a pentalty. I agree that their where questionable calls in this game, but this was not one of them.

If you have a copy of the game anywhere (VHS, Tivo, etc.), please go watch the replay of Ward's catch at the 2 and try and tell me his hand-checking was any less blatant than what Jackson's was. What Jackson did was technically a penalty, yes. So was what Ward did not. That is the difference. Seattle was hit with a tick-tacky foul. Pittsburgh was not.

 

[yellowdog]

The Stevens catch/fumble may have benefitted the Seahawks more if it were called. They ended up punting the ball out of the endzone after that. Maybe the change of possession on the fumble could have pinned the Steelers deeper in their own territory. The calls that hurt the Seahawks directly influenced the outcome of the game. The so-called bad calls against the Steelers indirectly effected the game, at best.

I completely agree with this. I noticed the same thing - they would have recovered the ball deep in their own territory anyway; it wouldn't have affected the game at all. The calls that hurt the Seahawks DID directly influence the game much much more. People shouldn't be comparing the "calls that hurt the Steelers" with them.

See, now here's where those that are complaining are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Because the subsequent play(s) after the fumble amounted to nothing, then it's pretty much a "who cares" attitude about this blown call. However, because of what transpired after the holding call, that one goes into the book as "egregious". Blame this game on the refs all you want, there were bad calls on both sides, the Steelers made the best of the blown calls against them and Seattle did nothing to overcome theirs.

The phantom holding call against Seattle took away a play that put them on the 2 yard line. FACT. The ticky tack OPI on Jackson took points off the board. FACT. The best you can come up with on calls that went against the Steelers are hypothetical what-ifs. So go ahead and enjoy it the best your consciences will allow.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

It seems like Steeler fans think that if they argue about it long enough, they're going to change the minds of those that think Seattle got screwed.

It's kind of like the argument about whether or not USC should've been able claim a share of the title a couple of years ago. Neither side will ever be able to convince the other. Arguing about it is a somewhat fruitless exercise.

No it isn't, it passes the time.I have no delusions about changing the haters' minds, and really, who cares? It has no bearing on anything - the Steelers are the champs, and there's nothing anyone can say or do to change that. There's no asterisk, and frankly, after the teams they had to beat on the road just to get to this game, no one is EVER going to be able to tell me they don't deserve this.

I'm simply wasting my work day away (notice no posts after about 5:00 - heh heh) and trying to give the referees a little bit of credit. They weren't as bad or as one-sided as people are making it sound.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Wouldn't you agree that it is much easier to bite your tongue about one bad call in a game you still ended up winning that it is about having numerous bad calls go against you in a Super Bowl loss?

MUCH easier. Doesn't mean Holmgren still shouldn't have done so. is it going to help him with the refs going forward? Is it going to help his team next year to give them excuses why they lost?

I know what you are saying. Maybe Holmgren is thinking that those particular officials will never work another playoff game against as a result. If the NFL has a brain, none of those officials will ever work another playoff game again.

 

[brettdj]

Here are 3 plays from the game, with pics and explainations from professionals.

another board

 

[Mik789fl]

You want some cheese with that whine?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The Stevens catch/fumble may have benefitted the Seahawks more if it were called. They ended up punting the ball out of the endzone after that. Maybe the change of possession on the fumble could have pinned the Steelers deeper in their own territory. The calls that hurt the Seahawks directly influenced the outcome of the game. The so-called bad calls against the Steelers indirectly effected the game, at best.

I completely agree with this. I noticed the same thing - they would have recovered the ball deep in their own territory anyway; it wouldn't have affected the game at all. The calls that hurt the Seahawks DID directly influence the game much much more. People shouldn't be comparing the "calls that hurt the Steelers" with them.

See, now here's where those that are complaining are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Because the subsequent play(s) after the fumble amounted to nothing, then it's pretty much a "who cares" attitude about this blown call. However, because of what transpired after the holding call, that one goes into the book as "egregious". Blame this game on the refs all you want, there were bad calls on both sides, the Steelers made the best of the blown calls against them and Seattle did nothing to overcome theirs.

The phantom holding call against Seattle took away a play that put them on the 2 yard line. FACT. The ticky tack OPI on Jackson took points off the board. FACT. The best you can come up with on calls that went against the Steelers are hypothetical what-ifs. So go ahead and enjoy it the best your consciences will allow.

Consciences will allow...... nice one.

The block in the back no-call took gave the Seahawks over 50 yards on their only TD-drive. FACT, not a hypothetical what-if. They likely don't even score if not for that terrible no-call. You make it sound as if there's never a questionable call in a football game.

I'm going to watch the parade on TV - you can sit there and stew over the "phantom" calls. We're the Champs whether you like it or not....

 

[Franknbeans]

Wouldn't you agree that it is much easier to bite your tongue about one bad call in a game you still ended up winning that it is about having numerous bad calls go against you in a Super Bowl loss?

MUCH easier. Doesn't mean Holmgren still shouldn't have done so. is it going to help him with the refs going forward? Is it going to help his team next year to give them excuses why they lost?

I know what you are saying. Maybe Holmgren is thinking that those particular officials will never work another playoff game against as a result. If the NFL has a brain, none of those officials will ever work another playoff game again.

This I can get behind. If officials obviously make mistakes in the biggest game of their careers, they should have to wait some time before getting another chance, if ever. It will be interesting to hear what the director of officiating has to say about all the close calls on Wednesday.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Here are 3 plays from the game, with pics and explainations from professionals.

another board

Gee, a neutral forum where people actually agree with the refs calls ! An officials forum, no less.Thanks brett, only further confirms that people here are just trying to rile us Steeler fans up.

Parade time !

 

[The Jerk]

The Stevens catch/fumble may have benefitted the Seahawks more if it were called. They ended up punting the ball out of the endzone after that. Maybe the change of possession on the fumble could have pinned the Steelers deeper in their own territory. The calls that hurt the Seahawks directly influenced the outcome of the game. The so-called bad calls against the Steelers indirectly effected the game, at best.

I completely agree with this. I noticed the same thing - they would have recovered the ball deep in their own territory anyway; it wouldn't have affected the game at all. The calls that hurt the Seahawks DID directly influence the game much much more. People shouldn't be comparing the "calls that hurt the Steelers" with them.

See, now here's where those that are complaining are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Because the subsequent play(s) after the fumble amounted to nothing, then it's pretty much a "who cares" attitude about this blown call. However, because of what transpired after the holding call, that one goes into the book as "egregious". Blame this game on the refs all you want, there were bad calls on both sides, the Steelers made the best of the blown calls against them and Seattle did nothing to overcome theirs.

The phantom holding call against Seattle took away a play that put them on the 2 yard line. FACT. The ticky tack OPI on Jackson took points off the board. FACT. The best you can come up with on calls that went against the Steelers are hypothetical what-ifs. So go ahead and enjoy it the best your consciences will allow.

So the hypothetical Alexander TD after what you claim is a phantom holding call is allowable, but other hypotheticals are not. Is that how it works?

 

[3MTA3]

Here are 3 plays from the game, with pics and explainations from professionals.

another board

Lock it down

 

[Ghost Rider]

I'm going to watch the parade on TV - you can sit there and stew over the "phantom" calls. We're the Champs whether you like it or not....

Heh...I won't be stewing at all. Heck, I was rooting for Pittsburgh and wanted to see them win, but it just sucks to see them win in such a controversial way. Like it or not, this win is tainted in the eyes of millions of football fans. And the worst part of it is that it is not the Steelers fault. It isn't their fault the officials sucked.

 

[gadkins]

Here are 3 plays from the game, with pics and explainations from professionals.

another board

It's funny that everyone is gettin on the officials for makin the right calls.

 

[yellowdog]

I'm not a fan of either team. I am a fan of good football. What I saw Sunday night was an injustice to fans like me. That is why I'm pissed. I have nothing against the Steeler fans on this board, mostly just funnin' with ya. Enjoy your championship. But I truly hope for a better performance by the stripes next year.

 

[Godsbrother]

These online petitions are always effective.

 

[jurb26]

If the ONE D-Jax touchdown that was called back for the interference call WAS a touchdown, they would have been down 21-14. The entire end of the game would have been played differently knowing they were down by one score and not two.

Exactly. And let us not forget the refs allowing Pittsburgh to call a timeout after the play clock had hit zero. They converted a third down on the next play.

Yes, that pentalty did take away a TD. So why don't you direct you're hissy fit towards the guilty party, DJax. He DID push off and it WAS a pentalty. I agree that their where questionable calls in this game, but this was not one of them.

If you have a copy of the game anywhere (VHS, Tivo, etc.), please go watch the replay of Ward's catch at the 2 and try and tell me his hand-checking was any less blatant than what Jackson's was. What Jackson did was technically a penalty, yes. So was what Ward did not. That is the difference. Seattle was hit with a tick-tacky foul. Pittsburgh was not.

I wont lie, I have not watched the replays of what Ward did or did not do on that play down field in great detail. I was amazed by the play Ben made too much to really concentrate on it. I do have the game tapped though, so when I get time I will watch it all over again. From you're explanation though, I don't see how these things are the same. Hand-checking is a great bit different from straight arming and pushing off and initiating contact a 2nd time after seperation has already been created. You also agree that what DJax did was illegal. For some reason he should not be called for it though. How many times now have we had to hear this. The Ref was standing RIGHT THERE! Do you really think that he was supposed to see this happen, 5 ft away from him and not throw a flag? Do you realize how absurd that sounds? Again, I did not see Wards downfield actions in great detail and I will observe them again when I have time. Is it possible though that even if there was some hand-checking or some pushing going on that the ref was simply NOT IN POSITION to see it like he was for the DJax one? I mean we are talking about a totally differnet animal here as far as the type of play. One was in a condenced field and also at a position of the field that a Ref will always be in position to see, the endline. The other was a broken scramble play that was 37 yds down field and opposite of the playside action. As I have said before, players get caught sometimes others don't. Those are the breaks. DJax got caught. Why do people seem intent on castrating an official for making the right call when it was obvious that he could not have missed it?I saw calls missed on both teams. Sea got aways with some holds that I thought could have been called as well as a legit block in the back on one of Warricks returns. Pitt got away with some holds and possibly a few guys lining up offsides (NZ infractions that seemed iffy or a bit too close for comfort). There was another possible block in the back that could have been called on Bens horrible Int by Sea during the return. There was also a possible horsecollar tackle that could have been called on Pitt. There was the missed fumble that would have benifited Pitt but an early whislte stopped play early. It seems like most people are manufacturing a lot of things to complain about here. You say that the officials called some ticky tacky things vs. Sea. Well, do you realize how ticky tacky a lot of you actually sound?

 

[The Jerk]

Here are 3 plays from the game, with pics and explainations from professionals.

another board

But it's much more fun to emphasize what some sportswriters and random fans think about the calls than what other officials think about them, especially when it appears that most of the posting officials find that the calls were more correct than incorrect.Edit to add:

Oh, wait. I know what happened here. The NFL set up this forum immediately after the game and put all of the responses in just to help make the cover-up of their fix more complete. Good job, NFL!

 

[jetpack]

Here are 3 plays from the game, with pics and explainations from professionals.

another board

But it's much more fun to emphasize what sportswriters think about the calls than what other officials think about them, especially when it appears that most of the posting officials find that the calls were more correct than incorrect.Edit to add:

Oh, wait. I know what happened here. The NFL set up this forum immediately after the game and put all of the responses in just to help make the cover-up of their fix more complete. Good job, NFL!

I really think this needs to be sent to the media, or at least have its own thread in the forum so that people can see this.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I think we have the makings of a Superbowl first. I smell a "do over" in our near future.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Okay, I just flipped on my copy of the game and THERE WAS NO BLOCK IN THE BACK ON ROETHLISBERGER on that INT return. That guy hit him from the side. The Seattle player had caught up to Roethlisberger and while his right hand was on back, the brunt of the push that knocked him down was from his left hand which was on the side of Roethlisberger's body, which was already turned sideways to the left as he looked for the ball carrier.

 

[Kleck]

I'd like to see someone yelling about the refs address any of these points :

1) On the 2nd interception Roethlisberger threw, he was pushed squarely in the back during the INT return and knocked on his face, allowing the play to continue another 30-40 yards. No flag there. Why?

I agree. Block in the back. Should have enforced a penalty from the spot of the foul.

2) On the Jerramy Stevens "incompletion" - he catches the ball, establishes possession by getting both feet down, and has completed his "football move" before he is hit and loses possession. It is blown dead before the Steelers can recover the fumble, although relays showed it could EASILY have been ruled a fumble. This is a judgment call that went Seattle's way, why is this not mentioned?

Because it would have had no impact on the game. Seattle punted on the next play. The result of the fumble or the punt would have been the same. If anything, it would have been one less play that was run adding some more time to the clock.

3) On Hasselbeck's fumble, he was touched on his thigh on the way down. As such, he was ruled "down by contact" and the fumble was overturned, maintaining possession for Seattle. However, the rulebook describes "down by contact" as : "when a player with possession of the ball is made to touch the ground (other than hands or feet) by a defensive player." There is no way that Hasselbeck went down as a result of that contact, he was already in the process of going down, when the hand brushed his leg. Thus, it was at the referee's discretion as to whether or not to overturn that. He could have ruled that Hasselbeck went down on his own, and ruled the play a fumble and still been in total compliance with the rules. It was a judgment call that went Seattle's way.

You're grasping at straws now. This one is futile. He was touched on the way down. No argument to be made here.You have no reason to do this. Game over. Your team made plays and won. Seattle had chances and didn't win. You don't have to defend your title. Trying to do so and rationalize it will only feed the trolls and/or people that just want to argue.

 

[Kosar]

These online petitions are always effective.

 

[shredhead]

Evilgrin, I know you went to the parade and I truly hope you enjoy it. I still get chills from the Broncos first superbowl victory and the parade that followed. This is something you will enjoy for years to come. I compred it to the Broncos superbowl because A) I am a Broncos fan and B) a lopt of the younger Steeler fans either weren't around or were too young to remember the Sttelers dynasty in the 70's ( I was young but I do remember it enough to have the Steelers be my 2nd favorite team for 30 some years now. Mean Joe Greene, Lambert, Hamm, Franco Harris, Rocky Blier, Swann, and Stallworth good memories)

I will comment on your two plays though ( I hope you see this after the parade)

1. I agree Clearly a block in the back on rothlisberger on Herndon's INT. Bad officiatinjg not in the Steelers favor.

2. Steven's fumble: I am torn on this one. I am actually leaning toward the call on the field. If it was reviewed, I don't think there was enough evidence to call it a catch. I think he was still moving (or bobbling ) the ball in his arms and never had it tucked away hence he never established complete control. Now I had the benefit of the replay. You have to realize how fast this happened in "real" time. When I first saw the play live, I thought it was IN-COM-PLETE (sorry that only happens in mile high) I never saw anything to change my mind on that one. Definately questionable and definately a judgement call.

Now to everyone else. Quit saying that the Rothlisberger TD was clearly a TD. We wouldn't have a 23 page thread about it if it was clear. I don't buy the photo because it was not taken at a 90 degree angle of the goal line. My initial reaction on this one live was no TD. As with the Steven's fumble, I have not seen anything to change my mind on this one either. I will say however, that the Steelers at the very least score a FG on the next play. I don't think it changed the outcome of the game. Seattle had plenty of chances after that. Clock mismanagment was a much bigger reason for Seattle's loss than that questionable call. Again it was a judgement call.

Holding,and OPI calls were actually the right calls. Ticky tack maybe but they were correct. ( just like I can get a speeding ticket for driving 32 in a 30 mph zone if the cop wants to give me one)

Holding on the Randle El pass to Ward: I didn't see it so I won't comment.

Overall, I agree with Evilgrin, the officiating was not good, but it was also not as biased towards the Seahawks as many people believe.

There was just more judgement calls in this game than your average game. the magnitude of the game is what made it seem worse than any other game. There were 10 times as many people watching this one. There was no bias. There is no asterisk. The Steelers are World Champions....Enjoy it!!!

 

[tattoofan]

http://new.petitiononline.com/nfl12006/petition.html

man these grapes sure are sour.

 

[shredhead]

Oh God I forgot to comment on the chop block on Hasslebeck. I would have to look at it again to see if he hit the blocker first or the ball carrier. Sounds like it was the right call but a bad rule. The tackler should be able to dive at the ball carrier and if a blocker gets in the way then too bad. If it is a deliberate dive at the blocker then it should still be a penalty. I don't think it was deliberate. The rule needs to be more clear. Again the deliberate word I used would just bring another human judgement into yet another rule.

 

[Seehawk]

I notice many of the Steeler fans are discounting much of this as "haters" or sour grapes by the losers and other similar things. Forget trying to dissect each individual play for a moment and step back and actually look at the results of some of the polls being run in referance to the game.

I think the poll here about who would win the game was about 60/40 for the Steelers yet the poll above asking if the Refs cost Seattle the game is breaking the opposite way.

ESPN has an interesting poll up that allows you vote on each individual play. Nearly 70% claim bad officiating in general, 60% think the pass interference was bad, only about 50% disagree with the Roeth rushing TD.

The Pittsburgh Post Gazette, in the heart of Steeler country, has a poll asking if the game was fairly officiated and 51% say no. That's 51% of respondents to a poll on the Pittsburgh newspaper on the Steeler's Page.

Turn off the "Red Alert Full Defensive Alert Mode" for a minute and realize it's not Steeler haters or Seahawk fans that are fomenting this "controversy", it's the majority of football fans in general. Is it possible....just possible....that as Steeler fans your opinions on these questions might be a bit clouded? That perhaps Seehawk fans and Steeler fans aren't exactly the best people to be dissecting this?