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Conservative - Different meanings (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant

Joe Bryant

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Random thought I had today. I’m interested in words as y’all know. And one word that interests me is “conservative”.

con·serv·a·tive adjective

1. averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values.

2. (in a political context) favoring free enterprise, private ownership, and socially traditional ideas.
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In how it means two things. Lots of people equate Conservative with right leaning politically and Republicans. But the other meaning is “keeping it the mostly the same”.

A friend of mine yesterday in talking about his son's decision to attend college or not said that he would like him to go because he is conservative. Going to college in that aspect had nothing to do politically. 

And it makes me wonder, could you say the politically conservative person seeking to change a policy is taking an anti conservative position? That’s the kind of thing I think about when I’m not thinking about Football or BBQ. Just so you know.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Random thought I had today. I’m interested in words as y’all know. And one word that interests me is “conservative”.

In how it means two things. Lots of people equate Conservative with right leaning politically and Republicans. But the other meaning is “keeping it the mostly the same”.

A friend of mine yesterday in talking about his son's decision to attend college or not said that he would like him to go because he is conservative. Going to college in that aspect had nothing to do politically. 

And it makes me wonder, could you say the politically conservative person seeking to change a policy is taking an anti conservative position? That’s the kind of thing I think about when I’m not thinking about Football or BBQ. Just so you know.
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Did he want him to go to college so that he would loosen up on his 'conservativeness'?

Regarding the anti-conservative position, I really think it depends on if the policy they are trying to change is seen as a progressive policy or not.  

 
Conservatives arent adverse to change.  We're adverse to sudden, dramatic change that is done without thinking things thru.

We'd rather be methodical and thoughtful with change rather than charging into it like a bull in a China shop like most Democrat policies and changes.

I take exception to the first part of the 1st definition.

 
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BladeRunner said:
Conservatives arent adverse to change.  We're adverse to sudden, dramatic change that is done without thinking things thru.

We'd rather be methodical and thoughtful with change rather than charging into it like a bull in a China shop like most Democrat policies and changes.

I take exception to the first part of the 1st definition.
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Why do you take exception to the word?  It’s from a dictionary.  

 
Joe Bryant said:
Random thought I had today. I’m interested in words as y’all know. And one word that interests me is “conservative”.

In how it means two things. Lots of people equate Conservative with right leaning politically and Republicans. But the other meaning is “keeping it the mostly the same”.

A friend of mine yesterday in talking about his son's decision to attend college or not said that he would like him to go because he is conservative. Going to college in that aspect had nothing to do politically. 

And it makes me wonder, could you say the politically conservative person seeking to change a policy is taking an anti conservative position? That’s the kind of thing I think about when I’m not thinking about Football or BBQ. Just so you know.
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That definition mostly describes me.  The slight difference is that although I agree with honoring the past of those before me, I think most would agree some socially traditional ideas need to be challenged.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like your friend is saying that colleges are "liberal", which of course they are.  For most kids, higher education is there to challenge your beliefs, make you look inward, and discover what most drives you.  It's nonsense the way the right paints them as if they are some sort of democrat brainwashing centers, though.

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
That definition mostly describes me.  The slight difference is that although I agree with honoring the past of those before me, I think most would agree some socially traditional ideas need to be challenged.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like your friend is saying that colleges are "liberal", which of course they are.  For most kids, higher education is there to challenge your beliefs, make you look inward, and discover what most drives you.  It's nonsense the way the right paints them as if they are some sort of democrat brainwashing centers, though.
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I think the point you're missing is that they challenge your beliefs not with differing beliefs, but with beliefs that follow the liberal Dogma.

Meaning, there is only one prevailing ideology on college campuses.  They're not challenging your beliefs, they're indoctrinating you to the beliefs they want you to have.

 
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2Squirrels1Nut said:
Reading between the lines, it sounds like your friend is saying that colleges are "liberal", which of course they are.  For most kids, higher education is there to challenge your beliefs, make you look inward, and discover what most drives you.  It's nonsense the way the right paints them as if they are some sort of democrat brainwashing centers, though.
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That wasn’t my take. I interpreted his friend saying that he favored his kid going to college because he’s conservative, as stating that going to college is the typical standard path for high school graduates that correlates with general upward mobility. In other words, it’s the conservative choice. 

 
It's all about time, erosion, and the change of words. Being a "conservative" person meant the first definition, BladeRunner notwithstanding. In time, most people that had a conservative temperament favored things such as free enterprise over socialism, which was a more radical transformation of society than keeping a basic market-based system. Given that, then conservative-minded people started teaming with those who favored free enterprise and we have today's lexical conundrum, which is where a "conservative" actually opts for the dynamism of the free market rather than the old world socialism of the hunter-gatherers and argiculturalists, which predate free-market theory. 

It all depends where you're starting and what your frame of reference is to. If by "conservative" one means that the beginning point is the Enlightenment free-marketers, then yes, a conservative hearkens back to this as his or her reference point. This is what we mean by "conservative" today. 

if it hearkens back something else, then the term "conservative" as applied to politics makes no sense in its modern context. 

It's just like the political designation "liberal" doesn't even mean what "classical liberal" used to mean. Even within a political context, the word changed. 

 
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bigbottom said:
That wasn’t my take. I interpreted his friend saying that he favored his kid going to college because he’s conservative, as stating that going to college is the typical standard path for high school graduates that correlates with general upward mobility. In other words, it’s the conservative choice. 
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Fair enough.

 
bigbottom said:
That wasn’t my take. I interpreted his friend saying that he favored his kid going to college because he’s conservative, as stating that going to college is the typical standard path for high school graduates that correlates with general upward mobility. In other words, it’s the conservative choice. 
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Yes. That's how he meant it. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Yes. That's how he meant it. 
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Just an fyi for your friend, Mike Rowe (dirty jobs) was on the Tim Pool podcast this past week and has some really interesting takes on trades vs degrees. 

The actual conservative move might be to promote a trade skill.

In fantasy terms it would hugely increase earning floor, but might maximize earning ceilings. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
In how it means two things. Lots of people equate Conservative with right leaning politically and Republicans. But the other meaning is “keeping it the mostly the same”.
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Those two meanings are not so different, IMO. It's just that "keep it mostly the same" is basically a euphemism for "keep it the way it was before it started changing."

 
Max Power said:
Just an fyi for your friend, Mike Rowe (dirty jobs) was on the Tim Pool podcast this past week and has some really interesting takes on trades vs degrees. 

The actual conservative move might be to promote a trade skill.

In fantasy terms it would hugely increase earning floor, but might maximize earning ceilings. 
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Agreed. I know several folks that have gone the trade route lately with excellent results. 

 
Mile High said:
Yeah if everyone wants to be a electrician. Lots of trades your body pays the price later in life.
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And we're paying the price currently by a bunch of college educated morons.  :shrug:

I'll take the guy who can build and hook up a ####ter over the Interpretive Dance and SJW major.

 
BladeRunner said:
Conservatives arent adverse to change.  We're adverse to sudden, dramatic change that is done without thinking things thru.

We'd rather be methodical and thoughtful with change rather than charging into it like a bull in a China shop like most Democrat policies and changes.

I take exception to the first part of the 1st definition.
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That is your definition of "conservative" but it isn't my dads.

 
Max Power said:
And college kids cant earn enough to pay their debts. 
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What do  people do when they get injured and have no eduction to fall on?  

You can make good money installing tile, but when your knees are shot at 50, what do you do for the next 20 years?  

 
Sabertooth said:
What do  people do when they get injured and have no eduction to fall on?  

You can make good money installing tile, but when your knees are shot at 50, what do you do for the next 20 years?  
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Learn to code.

Isnt that what you guys always say?

Also, office people get injured too.  Hell, you can get injured srepping out you front door on your way TO work.

You should consider the bubble wrap trade if youre that worried.

 
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slow change is fine, as long as there’s progress.  “conservative” today seems to mean no change.

 
GoBirds said:
:goodposting:

Great point for all the Liberals that always point to their education…..yet so many can’t even be responsible for their own debts. I’ll take the guy that handles his responsibilities in the real world over any extra degrees every time. 
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I feel the same way about small business owners. How many of them took out PPP loans and never repaid them? I'll take the guy that handles his responsibilities in the real world.

 
Sabertooth said:
What do  people do when they get injured and have no eduction to fall on?  

You can make good money installing tile, but when your knees are shot at 50, what do you do for the next 20 years?  
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Hopefully, after laying tile for 20 years, they can hire a lot of that out - start their own company and fill the role of sales/quoting/management.

 
Sabertooth said:
What do  people do when they get injured and have no eduction to fall on?  

You can make good money installing tile, but when your knees are shot at 50, what do you do for the next 20 years?  
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Power through it or hope you develop enough managerial skills over the years to move into a staff or support role.

 
Interesting topic.  Like some others in here, I don’t like the “aversion to change” bit in the definition.  I live in the Liberal bastion of Connecticut and there are a lot of things I want changed here.  My identification as a Republican is more centered around anti-statism Libertarian beliefs. 

 
Max Power said:
Power through it or hope you develop enough managerial skills over the years to move into a staff or support role.
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And if you don’t?  Say you were just a very skilled tile setter who didn’t really care about things like managerial finance, human resource law, business law, proper accounting practices.  Where would one go to learn those things I wonder?

As somebody who left behind the corporate bull#### and 9-5 gig for good 4 years ago to enter the trades, I totally get what you are saying.  
 

I see a lot of beat up old contractors stocking shelves at Menards and Home Depot.  The man who installed my moms kitchen back in the early 90s, which just a work of art by the way, works stocking shelves now. It’s just so beneath him.  But he got hurt.  Sad.  
 

 
Sabertooth said:
And if you don’t?  Say you were just a very skilled tile setter who didn’t really care about things like managerial finance, human resource law, business law, proper accounting practices.  Where would one go to learn those things I wonder?

As somebody who left behind the corporate bull#### and 9-5 gig for good 4 years ago to enter the trades, I totally get what you are saying.  
 

I see a lot of beat up old contractors stocking shelves at Menards and Home Depot.  The man who installed my moms kitchen back in the early 90s, which just a work of art by the way, works stocking shelves now. It’s just so beneath him.  But he got hurt.  Sad.  
 
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So are you saying no one can ever go into the trades because they might get hurt?

 
ekbeats said:
Interesting topic.  Like some others in here, I don’t like the “aversion to change” bit in the definition.  I live in the Liberal bastion of Connecticut and there are a lot of things I want changed here.  My identification as a Republican is more centered around anti-statism Libertarian beliefs. 
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Just bizarre to “not like” a definition that has been in the dictionary for a long time.

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
That definition mostly describes me.  The slight difference is that although I agree with honoring the past of those before me, I think most would agree some socially traditional ideas need to be challenged.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like your friend is saying that colleges are "liberal", which of course they are.  For most kids, higher education is there to challenge your beliefs, make you look inward, and discover what most drives you.  It's nonsense the way the right paints them as if they are some sort of democrat brainwashing centers, though.
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Yep, but I still white flagged arguing about it a long time ago. Anyone with that mindset is incapable of being convinced otherwise.  

There is a range of potential outcomes that must be considered when going the trades route. There is also a range of potential outcomes that must be considered when pursuing higher ed. A similar dynamic exists with any number of other potential paths. It's on each individual to decision make short and long term accordingly. And it isn't binary. Those treating it as such are part of our perpetual problem and one reason why our education system is beyond repair. It'll take generations and we lack the patience to see it through, but we'll never get to that point because of our existing divisions. 

 
MAC_32 said:
Yep, but I still white flagged arguing about it a long time ago. Anyone with that mindset is incapable of being convinced otherwise.  

There is a range of potential outcomes that must be considered when going the trades route. There is also a range of potential outcomes that must be considered when pursuing higher ed. A similar dynamic exists with any number of other potential paths. It's on each individual to decision make short and long term accordingly. And it isn't binary. Those treating it as such are part of our perpetual problem and one reason why our education system is beyond repair. It'll take generations and we lack the patience to see it through, but we'll never get to that point because of our existing divisions. 
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I agree with your post although as I previously conceded misunderstood the OP. 

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
I agree with your post although as I previously conceded misunderstood the OP. 
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You did, but I think you accidentally ended up down a similarly interesting path as Joe. Higher ed leans liberal, put pursuing higher ed leans conservative, and considering change does not. Maybe it's the hangover and lack of sleep, but I find that whole dynamic rather interesting.

 
MAC_32 said:
You did, but I think you accidentally ended up down a similarly interesting path as Joe. Higher ed leans liberal, put pursuing higher ed leans conservative, and considering change does not. Maybe it's the hangover and lack of sleep, but I find that whole dynamic rather interesting.
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First, I almost posted something similar to your previous post. If you go to school to be a plumber, the instructors aren't going to spend any time trying to get you to consider being an electrician or construction worker.   That's how I, incorrectly, arrived at my previous response and difference between conservative and liberal in respects to education. 

 
Sabertooth said:
And if you don’t?  Say you were just a very skilled tile setter who didn’t really care about things like managerial finance, human resource law, business law, proper accounting practices.  Where would one go to learn those things I wonder?

As somebody who left behind the corporate bull#### and 9-5 gig for good 4 years ago to enter the trades, I totally get what you are saying.  
 

I see a lot of beat up old contractors stocking shelves at Menards and Home Depot.  The man who installed my moms kitchen back in the early 90s, which just a work of art by the way, works stocking shelves now. It’s just so beneath him.  But he got hurt.  Sad.  
 
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Yeah it's easy to say. If you're a skilled tradesman after 20 or more just move it to management. The true is after 20 years or more your body is going to be paying the price.

 
Mile High said:
Yeah it's easy to say. If you're a skilled tradesman after 20 or more just move it to management. The true is after 20 years or more your body is going to be paying the price.
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So no trades?  Just shut them down?  Wut?  Everyone learn to code?

 
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Mile High said:
Yeah it's easy to say. If you're a skilled tradesman after 20 or more just move it to management. The true is after 20 years or more your body is going to be paying the price.
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Right one way or the other you will begin to breakdown physically.  Rotator cuffs and knees for those who avoid accidents.  

 
Sabertooth said:
Right one way or the other you will begin to breakdown physically.  Rotator cuffs and knees for those who avoid accidents.  
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Well you keep complaining about people getting hurt. Who do you expect to do all that stuff? 

Should we just get rid of the trades all together? Is that your solution? Really?

 
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