D. Jackson or R. Moss (1 Viewer)

[Blackjacks]

With both of these guys being highly touted wr's I'm wanting to see who you would want more on your team. Moss definetly has more ability but if he doesn't catch his bomb can sometimes have a less than spectacular game. Where as D-Jax might not be as skilled but always seems to be very steady and every once in awhile gets you a big game. Who would you want to go into battle with?

 

[mbuehner]

I love D-Jax, but this is no contest. All thing being equal anyway.

 

[H.K.]

I love D-Jax, but this is no contest. All thing being equal anyway.

I agree. When healthy, Moss is by far the most talented WR in the game, and he is capable of carrying a FF team for a season. Now that the Raiders have Brooks, I would expect him to win this vote by a decent margin because he is much more of a TD threat.

 

[-OZ-]

While DJax was underrated, perhaps he's become overrated recently, if people are preferring him to Randy Moss.

Randy Moss is a top 5 dynasty WR, DJax probably top 10.

 

[sib]

This is easy - I'd rather have DJax. Aaron Brooks is basically a more athletic version of Kerry Collins. Great arm, but has happy feet and makes dumb decisions. Hasselbeck is a Pro-Bowl QB who knows how to get DJax the ball.

Passing offense - no contest. Clear advantage is for DJax. Mike Holmgren's offensive system is much more friendly to a passing attack than Art Shell/Raiders OC had in their previous tenure.

Team - Hasselbeck, O-Line, Shaun Alexander, playmakers on defense - another no contest. Djax has the much better team around him, while Randy Moss will be double and triple-teamed throwing his hands in the air when other Brooks pass gets intercepted

 

[Frank Black]

Easy for me, in favor of Djax. Moss's days as an elite WR are done. He has shown us that when he's hurt, he can't produce the same as an elite WR like TO can when TO is hurt. Just as we used to talk about how when the likes of F. Taylor or K. Warner were studs in their prime "when they were healthy," it is time to acknowledge that Moss now falls under this category.

 

[sjanson]

Yardage league = Moss

Catches league = Jackson

 

[Liquid Tension]

Easy for me, in favor of Djax. Moss's days as an elite WR are done. He has shown us that when he's hurt, he can't produce the same as an elite WR like TO can when TO is hurt. Just as we used to talk about how when the likes of F. Taylor or K. Warner were studs in their prime "when they were healthy," it is time to acknowledge that Moss now falls under this category.

Folks I am happy to see 1/3 of the people even on a "smart" site like this would rather have DJax. I would trade DJax and get Moss back in ANY type of league. Glad to see ho wmany people still don't get it

 

[Blackjacks]

Easy for me, in favor of Djax. Moss's days as an elite WR are done. He has shown us that when he's hurt, he can't produce the same as an elite WR like TO can when TO is hurt. Just as we used to talk about how when the likes of F. Taylor or K. Warner were studs in their prime "when they were healthy," it is time to acknowledge that Moss now falls under this category.

Folks I am happy to see 1/3 of the people even on a "smart" site like this would rather have DJax. I would trade DJax and get Moss back in ANY type of league. Glad to see ho wmany people still don't get it

I like Moss, don't get me wrong. I guess I'm just saying he's alittle bit to inconsistent for me. If I had to go into every game with him needing to get me anywhere from 8-12 points I think I'd rather have Moss but the chances of Moss having more points at the end of the year are pretty good. D-Jax is just very consistent.

 

[LHUCKS]

Depends on the league and your risk appetite.

survivor or tournament H2H(WCOFF)...give me Moss.

Normal H2H...give me D-JAX.

FF is an art not a science.

 

[H.K.]

By the numbers:

1) DJax has has one season (2004) when he had more FF points than Moss, but Moss played three fewer games and the difference that year was only six points between them.

2) Moss has had double digit TD's in 6 out of 8 seasons, DJax has never had more than 9, and he onlyu did that once.

3) Moss has over 1000 receiving yards 7 out of 8 seasons - lone exception was 2004 when he missed three games. DJax has surpassed 1000 only 3 times in 6 years.

4) DJax has 37 career TD's, Moss has 38 in his last three seasons.

ETA: These are regular season numbers taken from FBG player pages.

 

[LHUCKS]

By the numbers:

1) DJax has has one season (2004) when he had more FF points than Moss, but Moss played three fewer games and the difference that year was only six points between them.

D JAX is young, many WRs don't reach their prime until years 4/5. In years 4/5 Jackson had 1100 yards and was on pace for much more than that in year 6 with Hasselbeck peaking.

2) Moss has had double digit TD's in 6 out of 8 seasons, DJax has never had more than 9, and he onlyu did that once.

People don't like D-JAX over Moss because of high TD numbers...it's about less risk.

3) Moss has over 1000 receiving yards 7 out of 8 seasons - lone exception was 2004 when he missed three games. DJax has surpassed 1000 only 3 times in 6 years.

D JAX had over 1100 in years 4/5 of his career and was well over that pace in year 6. Moss picked up the game quicker than any other WR in his first years, but that doesn't have anything to do with what D-JAX is capable of.

4) DJax has 37 career TD's, Moss has 38 in his last three seasons.

Again, taking career numbers is unfair to D-JAX for several reasons, I'll also add that Hasselbeck is in the prime of his career now, which should contribute to career numbers for Jackson.Bottom line: expect career numbers from Jackson, without the risks that are associated with Moss.

 

[H.K.]

By the numbers:

1) DJax has has one season (2004) when he had more FF points than Moss, but Moss played three fewer games and the difference that year was only six points between them.

D JAX is young, many WRs don't reach their prime until years 4/5. In years 4/5 Jackson had 1100 yards and was on pace for much more than that in year 6 with Hasselbeck peaking.

2) Moss has had double digit TD's in 6 out of 8 seasons, DJax has never had more than 9, and he onlyu did that once.

People don't like D-JAX over Moss because of high TD numbers...it's about less risk.

3) Moss has over 1000 receiving yards 7 out of 8 seasons - lone exception was 2004 when he missed three games. DJax has surpassed 1000 only 3 times in 6 years.

D JAX had over 1100 in years 4/5 of his career and was well over that pace in year 6. Moss picked up the game quicker than any other WR in his first years, but that doesn't have anything to do with what D-JAX is capable of.

4) DJax has 37 career TD's, Moss has 38 in his last three seasons.

Again, taking career numbers is unfair to D-JAX for several reasons, I'll also add that Hasselbeck is in the prime of his career now, which should contribute to career numbers for Jackson.Bottom line: expect career numbers from Jackson, without the risks that are associated with Moss.

Good post LHUCKS, but you are fighting facts with assertions. I love DJax, this year as well, but Moss' numbers dwarf Jackson's. Here's another factor: I see Seattle having another good season in the win column, so I'll expect DJax to have some quiet fourth quarters next year as they run out the clock. Conversely, I would expect Moss to be getting plenty of looks for a full sixty minutes next year as the Raiders play catch-up.

 

[anakin]

I have both on my dynasty team...I am a happy man.

 

[H.K.]

I have both on my dynasty team...I am a happy man.

you should be.

 

[LHUCKS]

Good post LHUCKS, but you are fighting facts with assertions.

what part of my post wasn't fact, or can't be backed by facts?

I love DJax, this year as well, but Moss' numbers dwarf Jackson's.

Again there are several reasons why you just can't take their career numbers and and analyze them in a black box. a) Hasselebeck now in his prime(which hurt Jackson's numbers when he wasn't)

b) Jackson now reaching his prime(evident by his steady increase from year 4 to 5 to 6.

c) Moss has been getting injured more and more each year...WRs with Moss height typically don't last too long in the NFL...at least not at their peak.

d) Moss picked up astronomical numbers in years 1/2/3...almost every WR in the history of the NFL doesn't start off like that, so comparing Moss career numbers to any WR isn't fair, especially one like D-Jax who has played with a developing QB for the better part of his career.

Here's another factor: I see Seattle having another good season in the win column, so I'll expect DJax to have some quiet fourth quarters next year as they run out the clock. Conversely, I would expect Moss to be getting plenty of looks for a full sixty minutes next year as the Raiders play catch-up.

I see this as a positive as well. I also love the Brooks signing for Moss' numbers...could be huge...lots of upside, no doubt about it.

 

[Frank Black]

By the numbers:

1) DJax has has one season (2004) when he had more FF points than Moss, but Moss played three fewer games and the difference that year was only six points between them.

D JAX is young, many WRs don't reach their prime until years 4/5. In years 4/5 Jackson had 1100 yards and was on pace for much more than that in year 6 with Hasselbeck peaking.

2) Moss has had double digit TD's in 6 out of 8 seasons, DJax has never had more than 9, and he onlyu did that once.

People don't like D-JAX over Moss because of high TD numbers...it's about less risk.

3) Moss has over 1000 receiving yards 7 out of 8 seasons - lone exception was 2004 when he missed three games. DJax has surpassed 1000 only 3 times in 6 years.

D JAX had over 1100 in years 4/5 of his career and was well over that pace in year 6. Moss picked up the game quicker than any other WR in his first years, but that doesn't have anything to do with what D-JAX is capable of.

4) DJax has 37 career TD's, Moss has 38 in his last three seasons.

Again, taking career numbers is unfair to D-JAX for several reasons, I'll also add that Hasselbeck is in the prime of his career now, which should contribute to career numbers for Jackson.Bottom line: expect career numbers from Jackson, without the risks that are associated with Moss.

 

[H.K.]

what part of my post wasn't fact, or can't be backed by facts?

These: D JAX is young, many WRs don't reach their prime until years 4/5. In years 4/5 Jackson had 1100 yards and was on pace for much more than that in year 6 with Hasselbeck peaking.

This is not proof positive that DJax is peaking, just an opinion.

People don't like D-JAX over Moss because of high TD numbers...it's about less risk.

Is there some sort of poll that supports this claim?

D JAX had over 1100 in years 4/5 of his career and was well over that pace in year 6. Moss picked up the game quicker than any other WR in his first years, but that doesn't have anything to do with what D-JAX is capable of.

Potential vs. actual. No proof.



Again, taking career numbers is unfair to D-JAX for several reasons, I'll also add that Hasselbeck is in the prime of his career now, which should contribute to career numbers for Jackson.

Unfair how? Would make the same argument for comparing career numbers of Moss vs. Engram.

All I did was show what has actually happened, you are dealing in hypotheticals.

Of course, you could be right, but history is your enemy here.

 

[LHUCKS]

D JAX is young, many WRs don't reach their prime until years 4/5. In years 4/5 Jackson had 1100 yards and was on pace for much more than that in year 6 with Hasselbeck peaking.

This is not proof positive that DJax is peaking, just an opinion.

The fact that his ppg increased from years 4 to 5 to 6 in addition to the fact that this is the NFL historical trend isn't proof?

People don't like D-JAX over Moss because of high TD numbers...it's about less risk.

Is there some sort of poll that supports this claim?

No, but I'm willing to bet money that the risks associated with Moss are the primary concern with his potential production.

D JAX had over 1100 in years 4/5 of his career and was well over that pace in year 6. Moss picked up the game quicker than any other WR in his first years, but that doesn't have anything to do with what D-JAX is capable of.

Potential vs. actual. No proof.

the proof is in the increasing ppg for D-JAX, coupled with the NFL historical trend for peak WR years, coupled with Hasselbecks increasing passer rating. That should be plenty.

Again, taking career numbers is unfair to D-JAX for several reasons, I'll also add that Hasselbeck is in the prime of his career now, which should contribute to career numbers for Jackson.

Unfair how? Would make the same argument for comparing career numbers of Moss vs. Engram.

Unfair for reasons previously stated: Moss' #'s in his first years inflate his career totals when compared to any other WR, if we're projecting for next year, you're better off looking at recent years and analyzing the high impact factors.

 

[H.K.]

The fact that his ppg increased from years 4 to 5 to 6 in addition to the fact that this is the NFL historical trend isn't proof?

No, it is not not proof that it will continue to rise, or fail to decline. For all we know, he has had his career year.



I'm willing to bet money that the risks associated with Moss are the primary concern with his potential production.

Even you agree that this is 100% supposition on your part. Besides, Jackson missed more games last year than Moss has in his entire career. This should speak to risk.

the proof is in the increasing ppg for D-JAX, coupled with the NFL historical trend for peak WR years, coupled with Hasselbecks increasing passer rating. That should be plenty.

Tech stocks were kicking butt from 1995-2000, how have they been since? Your still speculating.



Unfair for reasons previously stated: Moss #'s in his first years inflate his career totals when compared to any other WR, if we're projecting for next year, you're better off looking at recent years and analyzing the high impact factors.

Holding Moss' success against him in this argument is illogical. Besides, I compared Moss last three seasons to Jackson's entire career and Moss still has more TD's in the recent time span you are evaluating.

 

[Blackjacks]

Good post guys but I do somewhat have to agree with Lhucks here. Your putting Moss's career numbers up there while he's not on the same team, doesn't have the same coordinator or the same qb. The doubt isn't skill, it's who will preform from this point on. I think everyone on this board will agree that Moss is more talented than D-Jax, probably more talented than any other WR in the NFL. The facts are DJax is in a comfortable offense with an ALLPRO at Qb with a coach who's always like to pass the ball. Moss is now with Aaron Brooks, pro's and con's there, with a newly coached team. How he will be used is definetly a ?. Career numbers mean nothhing here due to these reasons.

 

[LHUCKS]

The fact that his ppg increased from years 4 to 5 to 6 in addition to the fact that this is the NFL historical trend isn't proof?

No, it is not not proof that it will continue to rise, or fail to decline. For all we know, he has had his career year.

Well then I guess we can't use Moss' career numbers, especially those with a different team and a different QB.

I'm willing to bet money that the risks associated with Moss are the primary concern with his potential production.

Even you agree that this is 100% supposition on your part. Besides, Jackson missed more games last year than Moss has in his entire career. This should speak to risk.

No, this is based on what I have seen and read...and Jackson's injury was much different than Moss'.

the proof is in the increasing ppg for D-JAX, coupled with the NFL historical trend for peak WR years, coupled with Hasselbecks increasing passer rating. That should be plenty.

Tech stocks were kicking butt from 1995-2000, how have they been since? Your still speculating.

Again, if I'm speculating then you're speculating...this is a silly argument.

Unfair for reasons previously stated: Moss #'s in his first years inflate his career totals when compared to any other WR, if we're projecting for next year, you're better off looking at recent years and analyzing the high impact factors.

Holding Moss' success against him in this argument is illogical.

How is it illogical? the best indicator of a WRs performance are his recent years' stats, not career stats...everybody knows this.

Besides, I compared Moss last three seasons to Jackson's entire career and Moss still has more TD's in the recent time span you are evaluating.

Again, TDs are not the concern with Moss obviously.Health, changing environment are his risks.

 

[LHUCKS]

Good post guys but I do somewhat have to agree with Lhucks here. Your putting Moss's career numbers up there while he's not on the same team, doesn't have the same coordinator or the same qb. The doubt isn't skill, it's who will preform from this point on. I think everyone on this board will agree that Moss is more talented than D-Jax, probably more talented than any other WR in the NFL. The facts are DJax is in a comfortable offense with an ALLPRO at Qb with a coach who's always like to pass the ball. Moss is now with Aaron Brooks, pro's and con's there, with a newly coached team. How he will be used is definetly a ?. Career numbers mean nothhing here due to these reasons.

Exactly.

 

[sib]

Good post guys but I do somewhat have to agree with Lhucks here. Your putting Moss's career numbers up there while he's not on the same team, doesn't have the same coordinator or the same qb. The doubt isn't skill, it's who will preform from this point on. I think everyone on this board will agree that Moss is more talented than D-Jax, probably more talented than any other WR in the NFL. The facts are DJax is in a comfortable offense with an ALLPRO at Qb with a coach who's always like to pass the ball. Moss is now with Aaron Brooks, pro's and con's there, with a newly coached team. How he will be used is definetly a ?. Career numbers mean nothhing here due to these reasons.

You hit the nail on the head. Randy Moss isn't playing for Denny Green anymore..doesn't have Linehan as a OC anymore. He isn't playing in a dome anymore..he doesn't have Culpepper throwing him the rock anymore. Completely different set of circumstances than his early yrs in the league

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Similarities: Age- 2 years separate Moss (29) and D-Jack (27). Injury Risk- Both had injuries last year so both assume some risk.

Beyond that I don't see how this is even debatable. Moss could fall on his face and still go over 1200 yards (6 times) and 10 TDs (6 times). D-Jack has never done either.

 

[Blackjacks]

Good post guys but I do somewhat have to agree with Lhucks here. Your putting Moss's career numbers up there while he's not on the same team, doesn't have the same coordinator or the same qb. The doubt isn't skill, it's who will preform from this point on. I think everyone on this board will agree that Moss is more talented than D-Jax, probably more talented than any other WR in the NFL. The facts are DJax is in a comfortable offense with an ALLPRO at Qb with a coach who's always like to pass the ball. Moss is now with Aaron Brooks, pro's and con's there, with a newly coached team. How he will be used is definetly a ?. Career numbers mean nothhing here due to these reasons.

You hit the nail on the head. Randy Moss isn't playing for Denny Green anymore..doesn't have Linehan as a OC anymore. He isn't playing in a dome anymore..he doesn't have Culpepper throwing him the rock anymore. Completely different set of circumstances than his early yrs in the league

Your right guys. The Randy ratio is no longer in affect. Think of all the great or even really good wr's out there. Do you think if they got 15 balls thrown their way even a good wr would put up great #'s, right?

 

[Blackjacks]

Similarities: Age- 2 years separate Moss (29) and D-Jack (27). Injury Risk- Both had injuries last year so both assume some risk.

Beyond that I don't see how this is even debatable. Moss could fall on his face and still go over 1200 yards (6 times) and 10 TDs (6 times). D-Jack has never done either.

How many times has he done that with the Raiders?

 

[H.K.]

How is it illogical? the best indicator of a WRs performance are his recent years' stats, not career stats...everybody knows this.

WR's have large turnover among the top 10 in FF stats from year to year. The production at this position is erratic.

Look at guys like Galloway, Santana Moss, Muhammad, etc. recently, as proof statements.

In a PPR format only four out of ten WRs repeated in the top 10 from 2004 - 2005. Even worse, none of the top three WR's in 2004 even made the top 10 last year.

In conclusion, we both agree that DJax should be studly next year, but you favor his potential based on his upward trend in a more stable situation over Moss' historical performance and unclear future. Good discussion. It's been fun, but I gotta get some work done.

 

[LHUCKS]

In conclusion, we both agree that DJax should be studly next year, but you favor his potential based on his upward trend in a more stable situation over Moss' historical performance and unclear future. Good discussion. It's been fun, but I gotta get some work done.

Good synopsis.

 

[H.K.]

Similarities: Age- 2 years separate Moss (29) and D-Jack (27).  Injury Risk- Both had injuries last year so both assume some risk. 

Beyond that I don't see how this is even debatable.  Moss could fall on his face and still go over 1200 yards (6 times) and 10 TDs (6 times).  D-Jack has never done either.

How many times has he done that with the Raiders?

*sigh*OK last one:

What are the percentages DJax goes over 1000 yards and 8 TD's in a season with the Seahawks?

Answer: 33% (2 times in 6 seasons)

FWIW, Moss is 100% in the same category with the Raiders, and that was in an injury plagued disappointment of a season.

 

[LHUCKS]

Similarities: Age- 2 years separate Moss (29) and D-Jack (27).  Injury Risk- Both had injuries last year so both assume some risk. 

Beyond that I don't see how this is even debatable.  Moss could fall on his face and still go over 1200 yards (6 times) and 10 TDs (6 times).  D-Jack has never done either.

How many times has he done that with the Raiders?

What are the percentages DJax goes over 1000 yards and 8 TD's in a season with the Seahawks? Answer: 33% (2 times in 6 seasons)

Dude, for reasons previously stated this is a totally flawed comparison.

 

[Blackjacks]

Similarities: Age- 2 years separate Moss (29) and D-Jack (27). Injury Risk- Both had injuries last year so both assume some risk.

Beyond that I don't see how this is even debatable. Moss could fall on his face and still go over 1200 yards (6 times) and 10 TDs (6 times). D-Jack has never done either.

How many times has he done that with the Raiders?

*sigh*OK last one:

What are the percentages DJax goes over 1000 yards and 8 TD's in a season with the Seahawks?

Answer: 33% (2 times in 6 seasons)

FWIW, Moss is 100% in the same category with the Raiders, and that was in an injury plagued disappointment of a season.

Okay 1 moreD-Jax was hurt last year and in 2002 (not dress) so 1st of all that's 2 out of 4 with 2004 being 1 td shy and 200 yards over. 2nd He has a completely different Qb throwing to him now, an All Pro at that. 3rdly He has no competition for catches like he did in the past. That's fine you keep on thinking your getting the Moss of old and I'll take the D-Jax of the present.

2001 SEA 16 70 1081 15.4 64 8 44 0 0

2002 SEA 13 62 877 14.1 48 4 37 2 2

2003 SEA 16 68 1137 16.7 80 9 54 1 1

2004 SEA 16 87 1199 13.8 56 7 59 2 1

2005 SEA 6 38 482 12.7 48 3 29 0 0

Career 83 378 5489 14.5 80 37 254 7 6

These numbers show that a healthy D-Jax should be able to pull down atleast 1200 yards and 9 td's. I'll take those #'s over Moss's.

 

[H.K.]

These numbers show that a healthy D-Jax should be able to pull down at least 1200 yards and 9 td's. I'll take those #'s over Moss's.

2006 Moss 78/1200/11 > DJax 83/1120/8

 

[Blackjacks]

These numbers show that a healthy D-Jax should be able to pull down at least 1200 yards and 9 td's. I'll take those #'s over Moss's.

2006 Moss 78/1200/11 > DJax 83/1120/8

Based on ???????????????????? I can give reasons for expectations, where are yours?

Not trying to be a jerk but I can say that Kevan Barlow will run for over 2,000 yards.

Is that a statement or what should happen due to a trend? Yours is just a statement and mine is a trend.......I'll go with the trend.

 

[H.K.]

These numbers show that a healthy D-Jax should be able to pull down at least 1200 yards and 9 td's. I'll take those #'s over Moss's.

2006 Moss 78/1200/11 > DJax 83/1120/8

Based on ???????????????????? I can give reasons for expectations, where are yours?

Not trying to be a jerk but I can say that Kevan Barlow will run for over 2,000 yards.

Is that a statement or what should happen due to a trend? Yours is just a statement and mine is a trend.......I'll go with the trend.

OK, since you are so high on trends, here's one:YPC Averages

DJax

2003 16.7

2004 13.8

2005 12.7

Moss

2003 14.7

2004 15.7

2005 16.8

See a trend?

Seriously, Moss will be healthy this season so he'll produce much better than last year. Therefore, he'll catch about a ball more a week than he did last year and play a full 16 games, so TD's should increase a bit, too.

FWIW I projected DJax at a 13.5 YPC, so I think he'll rebound, too.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Good arguments both ways for Moss and D-Jax.

I think both players will be great this year and the next while.

If I had to choose between these 2 guys I take Moss in a heart beat. I mean if it came down to the draft and it was your turn to pick and WR was your next move and you had it narrowed down to these 2 guys, I can't see many if any passing over Moss and selecting D-Jax. Moss' numbers have been down a bit the last 2 years but that is due to injury. I don't see this trend continuing. Remember Moss' numbers are on par with the great J. Rice and Moss is still in the prime age for a WR. I just find it hard to pass this guy up.

 

[LHUCKS]

Moss' numbers have been down a bit the last 2 years but that is due to injury. I don't see this trend continuing.

Why?

 

[Blackjacks]

These numbers show that a healthy D-Jax should be able to pull down at least 1200 yards and 9 td's. I'll take those #'s over Moss's.

2006 Moss 78/1200/11 > DJax 83/1120/8

Based on ???????????????????? I can give reasons for expectations, where are yours?

Not trying to be a jerk but I can say that Kevan Barlow will run for over 2,000 yards.

Is that a statement or what should happen due to a trend? Yours is just a statement and mine is a trend.......I'll go with the trend.

OK, since you are so high on trends, here's one:YPC Averages

DJax

2003 16.7

2004 13.8

2005 12.7

Moss

2003 14.7

2004 15.7

2005 16.8

See a trend?

Seriously, Moss will be healthy this season so he'll produce much better than last year. Therefore, he'll catch about a ball more a week than he did last year and play a full 16 games, so TD's should increase a bit, too.

FWIW I projected DJax at a 13.5 YPC, so I think he'll rebound, too.

You know he's gonna be healthy, wow. Hey who's gonna win the superbowl Oh wise one. That's a guess. I also don't think ypc mean anything. Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, Boldin, Fitz and Harrison's were all below Moss's. Does that mean you'd rather have Moss over all of them to? Ypc just shows me that D-Jax is getting more targets and becoming more of a possession wr. Which I think is good news, any time my wr can get his hands all the ball gives him a chance. As where Randy's catches have gone down and his Ypc have gone up which brings me back to my original thought if he doesn't catch a long bomb he's useless.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Moss' numbers have been down a bit the last 2 years but that is due to injury.  I don't see this trend continuing. 

Why?

Don't have an answer just have a hunch he won't be injured this year. Brooks also makes it more appealing as well..

 

[LHUCKS]

Moss' numbers have been down a bit the last 2 years but that is due to injury.  I don't see this trend continuing. 

Why?

Don't have an answer just have a hunch he won't be injured this year. Brooks also makes it more appealing as well..

Fair enough...at least you have the nutsack to admit it's a hunch.

 

[-OZ-]

Moss' numbers have been down a bit the last 2 years but that is due to injury. I don't see this trend continuing.

Why?

Don't have an answer just have a hunch he won't be injured this year. Brooks also makes it more appealing as well..

Fair enough...at least you have the nutsack to admit it's a hunch.

Aren't most projections "hunches" right now?Randy has too much talent, and Brooks tends to lock on one WR.

Horn generally received about 1300 yards and 8-11 TDs. Moss should do a bit better.

Over the last 6 years, Darrell Jackson's best years are less than Horn's average years. It's just a hunch, but I think Randy Moss is a better WR than Horn.

 

[H.K.]

You know he's gonna be healthy, wow. Hey who's gonna win the superbowl Oh wise one. That's a guess. I also don't think ypc mean anything.

Do you have a crystal ball guaranteeing DJax won't get hurt again? As I stated earlier, DJax has missed more games than Moss with injury even though Moss has been in the league longer. You make the same assumption that DJax will be healthy, too, so its a circular argument based on nothing other than pure speculation.

Last season Moss was obviously slowed by numerous ailments, yet he was on the field every week except one. This was a huge factor in his less than usually spectacular statisitics. With an off-season to heal up, there is no reason (or news) that he will be less than 100% by opening day.

As far as YPC, my projections are for Moss to have a decrease in YPC due to more catches, yet I also feel that DJax will have a slight increase in YPC because he will be 100% going into the season.

 

[Dancing Bear]

I agree with -OZ- with respect to hunches.

I would say that folks are understating Aaron Brooks accomplishments and his potential. For 4 years in a row he was a Top-10 QB. In those 4 years Horn was also a Top-10 WR. Horn also had a 5th Top-10 WR with the combination of Blake/ Brooks. Horn took 5 years to mature along with a team change and figure out the NFL

I believe that Aaron Brooks and Randy Moss will figure it out, and Brooks will lead Moss back to his pre-injury numbers.

The one concern that I have for Moss is that he has been injured twice now on strange "contact" plays which ended up in awkward falls. In both instances he somehow pulled muscles instead of hurting joints, bones, etc. And then he was not able to heal quickly; maybe this was a lack of restraint on his part in pushing too hard to come back ...

 

[Blackjacks]

You know he's gonna be healthy, wow. Hey who's gonna win the superbowl Oh wise one. That's a guess. I also don't think ypc mean anything.

Do you have a crystal ball guaranteeing DJax won't get hurt again? As I stated earlier, DJax has missed more games than Moss with injury even though Moss has been in the league longer. You make the same assumption that DJax will be healthy, too, so its a circular argument based on nothing other than pure speculation.

Last season Moss was obviously slowed by numerous ailments, yet he was on the field every week except one. This was a huge factor in his less than usually spectacular statisitics. With an off-season to heal up, there is no reason (or news) that he will be less than 100% by opening day.

As far as YPC, my projections are for Moss to have a decrease in YPC due to more catches, yet I also feel that DJax will have a slight increase in YPC because he will be 100% going into the season.

I don't think, unlike you, I ever stated that I know D-Jax will be healthy. It's funny how you'll say Moss was hurt and it hurt his numbers but D-Jax was out. It's like your saying he wasn't as good as usual because of injury yet he's played in more games (even though not at 100%.) Pick which way your going with here, you can't have both sides. My arguement has never,ever,ever been that D-Jax is more talented it has been he has a better qb and a better system.

 

[H.K.]

It's like your saying he wasn't as good as usual because of injury yet he's played in more games (even though not at 100%.) Pick which way your going with here, you can't have both sides. My arguement has never,ever,ever been that D-Jax is more talented it has been he has a better qb and a better system.

Here is the crux of the matter: Moss wasn't as good as usual because he played hurt....but he still played and put up Top 20 WR numbers despite being banged up and missing a game. DJax was not even able to stay on the field, therefore, the advantage of durability goes to Moss.Do the Seahawks have a better QB and system? I'll say yes, but from a fantasy perspective I think Moss is in a better situation for individual production. Alexander is scoring option number one and two in Seattle, and the Seahawks will pound a weaker division, so throwing for a full game may not be necessary most weeks. The Raiders, on the other hand, will be on the other end of the spectrum.

 

[Blackjacks]

It's like your saying he wasn't as good as usual because of injury yet he's played in more games (even though not at 100%.) Pick which way your going with here, you can't have both sides. My arguement has never,ever,ever been that D-Jax is more talented it has been he has a better qb and a better system.

Here is the crux of the matter: Moss wasn't as good as usual because he played hurt....but he still played and put up Top 20 WR numbers despite being banged up and missing a game. DJax was not even able to stay on the field, therefore, the advantage of durability goes to Moss.Do the Seahawks have a better QB and system? I'll say yes, but from a fantasy perspective I think Moss is in a better situation for individual production. Alexander is scoring option number one and two in Seattle, and the Seahawks will pound a weaker division, so throwing for a full game may not be necessary most weeks. The Raiders, on the other hand, will be on the other end of the spectrum.

Might be the best part of your arguement. I agree Alexander is a scoring machine and usually Seattle plays ahead in the second half. But, considering the last 5 years the loser in the super bowl has gone to crap the following year I think we could easily see this change this year. So if your relying on the to be the only reason to take Moss think I need a better answer.

 

[H.K.]

Might be the best part of your arguement. I agree Alexander is a scoring machine and usually Seattle plays ahead in the second half. But, considering the last 5 years the loser in the super bowl has gone to crap the following year I think we could easily see this change this year. So if your relying on the to be the only reason to take Moss think I need a better answer.

Interesting notion. Why wouldn't Seattle be as good this year? The lost Hutch, that may hurt. They'll play a tougher schedule, too. Seems like the primary reason most SB losers tank the following season is usually injury related to key players...i.e.-McNabb last year and half the Panther roster the previous season.

Why I Like Moss More: He is a rare, otherworldly talent. Historically he has been a superstar, he is on a team that will make it a point to get him the ball, and he has enough talent around him to keep defenses from completely focusing on him alone. The defense stinks, too, so they'll need to score a lot to win.

DJax is a good player in a great system with good talent around him so he will be top 10, IMHO Moss returns to the top 3 WR's.

 

[LHUCKS]

Historically he has been a superstar

not in recent history...see '04 and '05 totals.

 

[Blackjacks]

Might be the best part of your arguement. I agree Alexander is a scoring machine and usually Seattle plays ahead in the second half. But, considering the last 5 years the loser in the super bowl has gone to crap the following year I think we could easily see this change this year. So if your relying on the to be the only reason to take Moss think I need a better answer.

Interesting notion. Why wouldn't Seattle be as good this year? The lost Hutch, that may hurt. They'll play a tougher schedule, too. Seems like the primary reason most SB losers tank the following season is usually injury related to key players...i.e.-McNabb last year and half the Panther roster the previous season.

Why I Like Moss More: He is a rare, otherworldly talent. Historically he has been a superstar, he is on a team that will make it a point to get him the ball, and he has enough talent around him to keep defenses from completely focusing on him alone. The defense stinks, too, so they'll need to score a lot to win.

DJax is a good player in a great system with good talent around him so he will be top 10, IMHO Moss returns to the top 3 WR's.

Again I agree Moss is more talented but where you don't get my point is he was a superstar on a different team. What is Art Shell's past to make you think he'll get him the ball. I could wrong on this but last time he was the Raiders coach weren't they a big time running team (Bo Jackson and Marcus Allen). I mean he was an o-line man in the nfl, I doubt the first option for him will be to throw up a bomb to Moss like Linehan and Green use to do in Minn.

 

[H.K.]

Again I agree Moss is more talented but where you don't get my point is he was a superstar on a different team. What is Art Shell's past to make you think he'll get him the ball. I could wrong on this but last time he was the Raiders coach weren't they a big time running team (Bo Jackson and Marcus Allen). I mean he was an o-line man in the nfl, I doubt the first option for him will be to throw up a bomb to Moss like Linehan and Green use to do in Minn.

Moss will be a focal point in that offense, he is too high profile, too talented, and too expensive not to be utilized as much as possible. Al Davis loves the vertical passing game, and he is still there driving the bus.