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Dating Advice - I blew and now acting on emotion. Is there anything I can do now? (2 Viewers)

STEADYMOBBIN 22

Footballguy
@Spiderman what are your interests and hobbies? Talk about them in here. What’s something that you’re super interested in? There’s somebody here that’s also into it. Dive into tha to keep your mind off of this.

Who’s your favorite football team? I’ll talk **** about them.
Dallas Cowboys-- GO!
MM is a dope!
Lamb hasn’t shown me he’s ready
Elliott smokes too much weed. (Conditioning)

That’s all I got!
 

Terminalxylem

Footballguy
There are almost 8 billion people in the world, and more than half of them have the right set of holes. Although it may seem impossible atm, you’ll have plenty of opportunities to find other women with whom you’re compatible.

Assuming your current mental state is temporary, the only red flag I see in pursuing future relationships is the delay accompanying your first, “serious” girlfriend. @Spiderman , why did it take you 40+ years to experience heartbreak?
 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
... This past Saturday, I asked her, via text, if she would want to talk soon about us again. After close to 3 days with no response, I decided that I needed to send her a text laying out some things that I haven't said previously.

With her lack of response since we saw each about 10 days ago, and very disconnected text messages, the reality is that she probably may have broken up with me when we saw each other even though she didn't come out and say that. At the very least, she needed time to absorb, which means space. I have kept out hope because she didn't come right out with it, but as time goes on and she isn't really giving me anything definitive, I decided to do what is probably very stupid. At the same time, I thought I had one chance to try and fight for us. I sent her flowers and a long message this evening......


Women generally choose men based on their immediate utility and their perceived social status/value.

When you no longer offer immediate utility, then everything said in the past, all promises, all statements, all discussion of the "future" are all essentially null and void in their behavior.

Women are either "All In" or they are "All Out" Anything inbetween is All Out. In effect, this person is a coward. She lingers because her next situation is not secure yet. If it was, she would have immediately cut ties openly.

I've said this before in the FFA, years ago, and many people got angry when I said it. I said - Imagine for the guys here who are married with kids, and you get into a car accident, God forbid and tragically, and you were paralyzed from the waist down. What would happen? Well she's not going to leave the day you come home from the hospital. Because her entire social network will turn on her. But many will do that anyway. But give it 2-3 years, when another reason can be concocted, and people have seen the injury/disability as normalized, and then there's the exit strategy. Some might stay, but resent you for it.

If a woman is All Out, in any form, then just walk. Consider yourself lucky you weren't married, had kids together, lived together or had mixed finances/business together.

The higher your perceived social status, the more your negatives or the negative circumstances would be rationalized as positive. If you were Chris Hemsworth, she would wait. She'd move for you. She'd stress out staring at the phone hoping you'd call every night.

I'll give you an example. Raising my godson opened up an entire new social dynamic where basically I was forced to interact with a bevy of new single mothers and even married women looking to step out or "trade up" on their beleaguered husbands. What did I know about raising kids? I knew nothing. My godson's father didn't ask me for help because I had some kind of heart of gold and was a thoughtful parent that fell out of a John Hughes film. I was picked because I could keep the kid safe from harm and I had the financial warchest to provide a stable practical all access environment in his formative years. So I hired a full time nanny. I wanted the kid to have a positive adult female influence in his life. I understood that was important. But to the endless waves of single mothers, I was someone who could afford a full time nanny. Not some random one either, but a hard vetted fully trained one you can only get from high level word of mouth. For those women, that was the status involved that made my "quirks" to become either tolerable or endearing. I didn't date this women, but the hard calculation in what I could provide in terms of potential utility was always on the table. Make no mistake for the married guys in here, your wife is very likely constantly weighing out all her potential options. That's human nature and biological imperative. We are hardwired to assess our next best resource move to survive.

This woman you mention is a coward. She lingers because it's in her best utility to linger. Things might not work out with new options and she wants that safe stable reliable proven option to fall back on if it blows up on her. However, that won't stop her from testing another new option later. Just because she's staying today doesn't mean she's committed.

Never treat anyone like a priority when they treat you like an option. The only exception to that rule is your own biological children. But everyone else should be held to a standard where your dignity is not being dragged through the mud. It is undignified to treat someone like a priority who treats you like an option.

The practical test of the value of modern commitment is NOT the ugly war stories of bad divorce and cheating across the FFA archives. The real cautionary tales are the guys you hear about who actually have it pretty good compared to the 99 percent out there and STILL say don't get married, don't commit, don't put yourself in a position where you cannot easily walk away.

Aside from women who are related to you, and where you actually have some obligations, it's always best to treat all romantic interactions with women, particularly American women, as merely temporary alliances.

This is not a commentary on you as a person, if you are a good person or not, or even a good "mate" or not. This is all about your current utility and the overall perception of it. Treat all your romantic endeavors like socks. You wear them, and when they stop being useful or no longer offer trouble free value, then you replace them. Just be honest about where you stand, what you will do and your intentions. If your status is high enough, most attractive women will rationalize the interaction. If it's not, they will demand more. The problem here is when you status is not high enough, you'll always be resented for it, because it's a reflection on them. Women quietly and ruthless judge other women on the flaws of their committed men, because it's a widespread public statement of what they can practically get. It always has to come back to them.

The things I am saying right now, does it apply to all women? I would say "nearly all" for the sake of diplomacy.

Let's test out the basic parameters of "nearly all" Let's say you ran into a burning building rigged with C4 like in a Lethal Weapon movie. And you had that scenario for 1,000,000,000 times. Maybe one time out those trial runs, you might not be incinerated and blown apart. That's what I mean by "nearly all"

Anyone who thinks I'm wrong, go out and observe the world around you. It's not like I'm magically concocting some radical ideas here that move beyond the basic eye test.
 

Zow

Footballguy
... This past Saturday, I asked her, via text, if she would want to talk soon about us again. After close to 3 days with no response, I decided that I needed to send her a text laying out some things that I haven't said previously.

With her lack of response since we saw each about 10 days ago, and very disconnected text messages, the reality is that she probably may have broken up with me when we saw each other even though she didn't come out and say that. At the very least, she needed time to absorb, which means space. I have kept out hope because she didn't come right out with it, but as time goes on and she isn't really giving me anything definitive, I decided to do what is probably very stupid. At the same time, I thought I had one chance to try and fight for us. I sent her flowers and a long message this evening......




Never treat anyone like a priority when they treat you like an option. The only exception to that rule is your own biological children. But everyone else should be held to a standard where your dignity is not being dragged through the mud. It is undignified to treat someone like a priority who treats you like an option.
@GordonGekko I'm intrigued by your intentional use of "biological" before children. My intrigue is sparked because you have shared at length the love and care you have for your godson and, at least from my drawn inferences from your comments, you treat him as if he were your own son. Additionally, I have shared that I'm an adoptive father.

Given the above, did you intentionally omit non-biological children to your lone caveat of your general rule?* If so, why?


*FWIW I agree with your general rule, I just think it should also apply to adoptive children, stepchildren, etc.
 

fruity pebbles

Footballguy
... This past Saturday, I asked her, via text, if she would want to talk soon about us again. After close to 3 days with no response, I decided that I needed to send her a text laying out some things that I haven't said previously.

With her lack of response since we saw each about 10 days ago, and very disconnected text messages, the reality is that she probably may have broken up with me when we saw each other even though she didn't come out and say that. At the very least, she needed time to absorb, which means space. I have kept out hope because she didn't come right out with it, but as time goes on and she isn't really giving me anything definitive, I decided to do what is probably very stupid. At the same time, I thought I had one chance to try and fight for us. I sent her flowers and a long message this evening......


Women generally choose men based on their immediate utility and their perceived social status/value.

When you no longer offer immediate utility, then everything said in the past, all promises, all statements, all discussion of the "future" are all essentially null and void in their behavior.

Women are either "All In" or they are "All Out" Anything inbetween is All Out. In effect, this person is a coward. She lingers because her next situation is not secure yet. If it was, she would have immediately cut ties openly.

I've said this before in the FFA, years ago, and many people got angry when I said it. I said - Imagine for the guys here who are married with kids, and you get into a car accident, God forbid and tragically, and you were paralyzed from the waist down. What would happen? Well she's not going to leave the day you come home from the hospital. Because her entire social network will turn on her. But many will do that anyway. But give it 2-3 years, when another reason can be concocted, and people have seen the injury/disability as normalized, and then there's the exit strategy. Some might stay, but resent you for it.

If a woman is All Out, in any form, then just walk. Consider yourself lucky you weren't married, had kids together, lived together or had mixed finances/business together.

The higher your perceived social status, the more your negatives or the negative circumstances would be rationalized as positive. If you were Chris Hemsworth, she would wait. She'd move for you. She'd stress out staring at the phone hoping you'd call every night.

I'll give you an example. Raising my godson opened up an entire new social dynamic where basically I was forced to interact with a bevy of new single mothers and even married women looking to step out or "trade up" on their beleaguered husbands. What did I know about raising kids? I knew nothing. My godson's father didn't ask me for help because I had some kind of heart of gold and was a thoughtful parent that fell out of a John Hughes film. I was picked because I could keep the kid safe from harm and I had the financial warchest to provide a stable practical all access environment in his formative years. So I hired a full time nanny. I wanted the kid to have a positive adult female influence in his life. I understood that was important. But to the endless waves of single mothers, I was someone who could afford a full time nanny. Not some random one either, but a hard vetted fully trained one you can only get from high level word of mouth. For those women, that was the status involved that made my "quirks" to become either tolerable or endearing. I didn't date this women, but the hard calculation in what I could provide in terms of potential utility was always on the table. Make no mistake for the married guys in here, your wife is very likely constantly weighing out all her potential options. That's human nature and biological imperative. We are hardwired to assess our next best resource move to survive.

This woman you mention is a coward. She lingers because it's in her best utility to linger. Things might not work out with new options and she wants that safe stable reliable proven option to fall back on if it blows up on her. However, that won't stop her from testing another new option later. Just because she's staying today doesn't mean she's committed.

Never treat anyone like a priority when they treat you like an option. The only exception to that rule is your own biological children. But everyone else should be held to a standard where your dignity is not being dragged through the mud. It is undignified to treat someone like a priority who treats you like an option.

The practical test of the value of modern commitment is NOT the ugly war stories of bad divorce and cheating across the FFA archives. The real cautionary tales are the guys you hear about who actually have it pretty good compared to the 99 percent out there and STILL say don't get married, don't commit, don't put yourself in a position where you cannot easily walk away.

Aside from women who are related to you, and where you actually have some obligations, it's always best to treat all romantic interactions with women, particularly American women, as merely temporary alliances.

This is not a commentary on you as a person, if you are a good person or not, or even a good "mate" or not. This is all about your current utility and the overall perception of it. Treat all your romantic endeavors like socks. You wear them, and when they stop being useful or no longer offer trouble free value, then you replace them. Just be honest about where you stand, what you will do and your intentions. If your status is high enough, most attractive women will rationalize the interaction. If it's not, they will demand more. The problem here is when you status is not high enough, you'll always be resented for it, because it's a reflection on them. Women quietly and ruthless judge other women on the flaws of their committed men, because it's a widespread public statement of what they can practically get. It always has to come back to them.

The things I am saying right now, does it apply to all women? I would say "nearly all" for the sake of diplomacy.

Let's test out the basic parameters of "nearly all" Let's say you ran into a burning building rigged with C4 like in a Lethal Weapon movie. And you had that scenario for 1,000,000,000 times. Maybe one time out those trial runs, you might not be incinerated and blown apart. That's what I mean by "nearly all"

Anyone who thinks I'm wrong, go out and observe the world around you. It's not like I'm magically concocting some radical ideas here that move beyond the basic eye test.

Be an interesting thread in and of itself but I’m sure it would get locked before the second page. Seems to be all about attention these days. Whatever will get you the highest amount. From partner on down.
 

Terminalxylem

Footballguy
The things I am saying right now, does it apply to all women? I would say "nearly all" for the sake of diplomacy.

Let's test out the basic parameters of "nearly all" Let's say you ran into a burning building rigged with C4 like in a Lethal Weapon movie. And you had that scenario for 1,000,000,000 times. Maybe one time out those trial runs, you might not be incinerated and blown apart. That's what I mean by "nearly all"

Anyone who thinks I'm wrong, go out and observe the world around you. It's not like I'm magically concocting some radical ideas here that move beyond the basic eye test.
Yikes. That’s super cynical.

As an (amicably) divorced, remarried guy, I can admit the dynamic you describe exists. But it’s not “nearly all“ long-term relationships. Then again, going through life thinking as you do will invariably poison a partnership, so maybe it does apply to nearly all of your relationships?
 

rockaction

Footballguy
I would also say that I see Gekko's dynamic at work in a lot of relationships and within our culture, but there are plenty of women who have dropped out of that line of thinking because it's a lethal, cutthroat world that doesn't even benefit the prettiest and smartest of women.

Gekko is also forgetting that as women become economic agents in full, they too have **** you money whereby they can pick and choose their mate other than for utility's sake. Now, this is rare, but I see it happening more and more in society.

This is not to disparage Gekko or his line of reasoning. It's basic PUA and alpha/beta MRA stuff. But as prevalent as the situations he describes are, there's a lot of path not beaten down yet by successful women in our society because, quite simply, history hasn't shown us yet what happens when one lives in a borderline matriarchy (which we borderline live in now).
 

fatness

against the grain
... This past Saturday, I asked her, via text, if she would want to talk soon about us again. After close to 3 days with no response, I decided that I needed to send her a text laying out some things that I haven't said previously.

With her lack of response since we saw each about 10 days ago, and very disconnected text messages, the reality is that she probably may have broken up with me when we saw each other even though she didn't come out and say that. At the very least, she needed time to absorb, which means space. I have kept out hope because she didn't come right out with it, but as time goes on and she isn't really giving me anything definitive, I decided to do what is probably very stupid. At the same time, I thought I had one chance to try and fight for us. I sent her flowers and a long message this evening......


Women generally choose men based on their immediate utility and their perceived social status/value.

When you no longer offer immediate utility, then everything said in the past, all promises, all statements, all discussion of the "future" are all essentially null and void in their behavior.

Women are either "All In" or they are "All Out" Anything inbetween is All Out. In effect, this person is a coward. She lingers because her next situation is not secure yet. If it was, she would have immediately cut ties openly.

I've said this before in the FFA, years ago, and many people got angry when I said it. I said - Imagine for the guys here who are married with kids, and you get into a car accident, God forbid and tragically, and you were paralyzed from the waist down. What would happen? Well she's not going to leave the day you come home from the hospital. Because her entire social network will turn on her. But many will do that anyway. But give it 2-3 years, when another reason can be concocted, and people have seen the injury/disability as normalized, and then there's the exit strategy. Some might stay, but resent you for it.

If a woman is All Out, in any form, then just walk. Consider yourself lucky you weren't married, had kids together, lived together or had mixed finances/business together.

The higher your perceived social status, the more your negatives or the negative circumstances would be rationalized as positive. If you were Chris Hemsworth, she would wait. She'd move for you. She'd stress out staring at the phone hoping you'd call every night.

I'll give you an example. Raising my godson opened up an entire new social dynamic where basically I was forced to interact with a bevy of new single mothers and even married women looking to step out or "trade up" on their beleaguered husbands. What did I know about raising kids? I knew nothing. My godson's father didn't ask me for help because I had some kind of heart of gold and was a thoughtful parent that fell out of a John Hughes film. I was picked because I could keep the kid safe from harm and I had the financial warchest to provide a stable practical all access environment in his formative years. So I hired a full time nanny. I wanted the kid to have a positive adult female influence in his life. I understood that was important. But to the endless waves of single mothers, I was someone who could afford a full time nanny. Not some random one either, but a hard vetted fully trained one you can only get from high level word of mouth. For those women, that was the status involved that made my "quirks" to become either tolerable or endearing. I didn't date this women, but the hard calculation in what I could provide in terms of potential utility was always on the table. Make no mistake for the married guys in here, your wife is very likely constantly weighing out all her potential options. That's human nature and biological imperative. We are hardwired to assess our next best resource move to survive.

This woman you mention is a coward. She lingers because it's in her best utility to linger. Things might not work out with new options and she wants that safe stable reliable proven option to fall back on if it blows up on her. However, that won't stop her from testing another new option later. Just because she's staying today doesn't mean she's committed.

Never treat anyone like a priority when they treat you like an option. The only exception to that rule is your own biological children. But everyone else should be held to a standard where your dignity is not being dragged through the mud. It is undignified to treat someone like a priority who treats you like an option.

The practical test of the value of modern commitment is NOT the ugly war stories of bad divorce and cheating across the FFA archives. The real cautionary tales are the guys you hear about who actually have it pretty good compared to the 99 percent out there and STILL say don't get married, don't commit, don't put yourself in a position where you cannot easily walk away.

Aside from women who are related to you, and where you actually have some obligations, it's always best to treat all romantic interactions with women, particularly American women, as merely temporary alliances.

This is not a commentary on you as a person, if you are a good person or not, or even a good "mate" or not. This is all about your current utility and the overall perception of it. Treat all your romantic endeavors like socks. You wear them, and when they stop being useful or no longer offer trouble free value, then you replace them. Just be honest about where you stand, what you will do and your intentions. If your status is high enough, most attractive women will rationalize the interaction. If it's not, they will demand more. The problem here is when you status is not high enough, you'll always be resented for it, because it's a reflection on them. Women quietly and ruthless judge other women on the flaws of their committed men, because it's a widespread public statement of what they can practically get. It always has to come back to them.

The things I am saying right now, does it apply to all women? I would say "nearly all" for the sake of diplomacy.

Let's test out the basic parameters of "nearly all" Let's say you ran into a burning building rigged with C4 like in a Lethal Weapon movie. And you had that scenario for 1,000,000,000 times. Maybe one time out those trial runs, you might not be incinerated and blown apart. That's what I mean by "nearly all"

Anyone who thinks I'm wrong, go out and observe the world around you. It's not like I'm magically concocting some radical ideas here that move beyond the basic eye test.
Sorry to hear about your bad opinion of women and your confusion about disaster movies imitating romantic relationships. I hope things work better for you in the future so you don't have to crap up someone else's honest thread.

/married 45 years to my best friend
 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
Yikes. That’s super cynical.
It is his usual negative view of women.

I have nothing against the OP, but if he carried more of my traits and viewpoints, he'd probably be more successful in his romantic endeavors with the opposite sex.

I care what women think if I've assessed that they are a reasonable and thoughtful person with actual integrity. I don't however care how women feel. And plenty of women are OK with that I don't care how they feel because they are often working an angle. In the dating/relationship marketplace, women are always working an angle. So are many men.

If you have enough on a status level, nearly all women who are attracted to you will rationalize away the things they don't like to try to get the things they want or think that they want.

Something I said back in 2006 is there is a huge difference in "someone who happens to be in charge in the most technical and tedious sense" and someone who just "takes command" Women love a man who takes command. I don't take command to impress women. I do it because that's how you get things done in life. It's how you run a business and lead a household. I can, at times, be a moody person. Brooding. Sometimes volatile. If you are a middle class earner who doesn't work out and got soft in the belly and in the heart, attractive women see that moody as "toxic" However when I do it, because I have certain status checkmarks they like, I'm suddenly labeled as "passionate" or "fiercely hypnotic"

If we are talking about some basic "dating advice" in this thread - There are things that women say out in public about dating and relationships, which is mostly a bunch of canned sanitized virtue signaling statements. And then there is what they do by their actions. When it comes to what women have to say about relationships, I really don't care. The FFA is littered with threads from beleaguered former husbands who tried to "listen" to their former wives. And how did that typically work out ? Does that offend people?

Here's something else I said back in 2006. If a woman tells you what she wants, she's very likely telling you what she thinks she wants at that given moment. Hidden by said virtue signaling, smoke and glitter. But the only universal thing that women consistently want is to snatch away the absolute desire of their most bitter rivals. Nothing makes most women want you more than knowing the other woman she despises wants you too.

So "take command" That means be decisive, have a plan, be disciplined, and take charge. Do you think a majority of women want to fill a role that is typically reserved for men throughout recorded human history? Go toil all day to earn a living and make brutal decisions about the future? No, the majority of women want to latch onto a guy like myself and pick out a vacation house that they don't have to pay for themselves.

So let's recap here.

1) If you assess the person in front of you has no integrity, then just don't give a single damn about what they think and how they feel. It's almost always best to cut hat person entirely out of your life.

2) If you assess the women in front of you has integrity, then care about what she thinks, in context, but never invest yourself in how she feels. Feelings mean nothing, the only truth is in actions.

3) Women say a lot. Most can't stop running the perpetual chirping routine. That's their nature. However what matters are actions. Watch what women say, but only pay attention to the things that they actually do. Again, the only truth in his life are your actions.

4) Take command. Go out and run your life. Be decisive. Be confident in your choices and stand by them, whether they work out or not. Act with actual integrity. If you say you are going to do something, then barring some disaster, go and do it. Sometimes women are in roles where they are in charge, but most don't want to be in charge. And in a romantic dating or relationship situation, they really don't want to be in charge.

So eventually someone here will say - You are only talking about certain kinds of women. Here's the hard truth. The majority of women all want the same basic things, it's just most don't have the leverage to get those things. The ones who appear more compliant or more reasonable are simply running a different strategy. And the reason for years, many men in the FFA posted about their marriage woes and divorces, is because even if most women will change their tactics to get that wedding ring or commitment, many resent having to do it. They didn't change for the sake of the relationship, they just wore a different mask because their real identity wasn't enough to get what they wanted, and at some point, the mask falls off. And then there is nothing left at that point but the lingering rage.

Life Lesson 101 from Old Man Gekko - Women's core nature doesn't change, but sometimes their tactics change. If you meet a woman and you think "Wow, this one is so different from the rest!" then odds are she's hot to trot for your current status level and she's running a strategy you've never seen before.
 

CletiusMaximus

Footballguy
Imagine for the guys here who are married with kids, and you get into a car accident, God forbid and tragically, and you were paralyzed from the waist down. What would happen? Well she's not going to leave the day you come home from the hospital. Because her entire social network will turn on her. But many will do that anyway. But give it 2-3 years, when another reason can be concocted, and people have seen the injury/disability as normalized, and then there's the exit strategy. Some might stay, but resent you for it.

I'm still earning but paralyzed from the waist down? This is my wife's dream marriage.
 

simey

Footballguy
"Narcissism falls along the axis of what psychologists call personality disorders, one of a group that includes antisocial, dependent, histrionic, avoidant and borderline personalities. But by most measures, narcissism is one of the worst, if only because the narcissists themselves are so clueless."
 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
“fiercely hypnotic” ay caramba

hit the showers


If a woman finds a man very attractive, she will be prone, on the average, to make "excuses" for his past, his actions, his behavior and things about him that other people just don't like.

I could have processed through an endless parade of single mothers and married women when I was raising my godson, back when he was very young. But I didn't. I don't really drive myself around. Sometimes, but most of the time, it was more efficient to have a full time driver/security element, and for myself to do work in the back while traveling from place to place. Also at certain financial benchmarks, from a liability standpoint, it's better for you to not drive yourself. I'm not a drinker, but if I wanted to have a drink, I don't have to worry about a DUI. I don't want to worry about getting into some kind of accident where I am personally liable in a much different context. It's good to have another set of hands, or another two sets of hands, to help on occasion.

But women notice that. They notice everything. They noticed that I had a full time driver. They saw my full time nanny with my godson. They knew through the gossip grapevine that happens around parents and schools that sometimes I just outright paid for things at the schools, for the sake of my godson's benefit. The parents associated with the school sports teams started to figure out I was buying sports equipment for the teams. I don't live extravagantly, but women pay attention that I have nice shoes, nice suits, nice watch and listen to how I walk, talk and interact with people.

Your presentation and how you carry yourself denotes your public status.

Something I said back in 2006 here is - Don't go out of your way to impress women for the sake of impressing women. Live an "exceptional life" and attractive women will naturally gravitate towards you. When they see something good going on, something of immense value, desirable and fun, they want to be a part of that.

Don't go out and try to impress women. Instead live a life that's impressive to you. To your value system. Some women will vibe with that and want to be a part of that. Some won't. And that's OK too. My natural pathway was fundamentally impressive to that endless range of middle aged single mothers. But the critical point is I did it for myself, for a better life for myself, to fulfill my sense of values. Most guys don't take care of their health, they don't workout, they don't act with confidence, they don't have hobbies, they don't know how to talk to people, they just sit in the background and wait for something to happen. In contrast, I was USDA prime cut in comparison.

You'll hear a lot of women say they want a man "who is ambitious"

What is the cost of "ambition"? It's pretty damn expensive. It's easy for many women to say, especially those who are very attractive, because they don't have to pay the brutal cost to have the trappings of success. But many men here know. They know the price of a real career and to carve your place into that career and to defend the things you have in said career. It's not easy. It's insanely hard. The standards of "The Checklist" are different for men and women.

Most men just want a woman who is cute/pretty, pleasant, not too much drama, and is willing to have lots of sex with him.

What do women want? It's an endless checklist. Endless. It goes on forever. Because it's easy to make those demands when it's not them toiling to build a career from scratch like many men do without the benefit of opportunities that come from "being the hot girl"

So for "dating advice", what happened to those single mothers? Well they saw me with clear markers of status, but they also saw me teaching my godson how to throw a spiral. How to field a ground ball. How to stand up straight and give a firm handshake. I did it because that's what a parent does for his son. He teaches him how to develop skills and survive the world. But to women, to those single mothers, it was some indicator in their internal fantasies, about how I would be a good surrogate parent. I.E. If I can love a child that's not my own, I'd love their child too if it was a blended family. Along with the fantasy land big house, vacations, nice stuff, monthly allowance, nice cars, etc, etc. Many of them were so entitled, tone deaf and selfish that they thought I had and did those things to impress them No, I did those things because I wanted to be a good father. My responsibility is to be a good father, not to fulfill someone's imagination while I wash away their bad credit record.

Life Lesson 101- It's never about you. It's about how you and your pathway makes other people feel about themselves.

So, for all intents and purposes, for these many single mothers, I was basically Big Foot. You don't think he exists, but there he is, he's right there, leaving foot prints. I had no previous marriages, and no previous kids of my own. I had money. Good career. Tall. Handsome. Took command. Thoughtful. Generous. Good soft skills - good communicator, negotiator, problem solver.

That's what women do. They see your life, then imagine it as their own. That's what it means when they want "ambition" in men. They want a part of a successful man's desirable lifestyle without any of the toil and bloodshed to get there.

Now anyone who has seen myself post here in these forums for 16 plus years knows that I don't espouse my lifestyle to anyone. I always point out everything costs you something. And with any power comes the burden of obligation and responsibilities. I do have more power than many other guys out there, but I also have more burdens to carry for it. You pay for everything in this life. I am not ungrateful for the blessings I have, but I don't paint it rose tinted for anyone here. I lay down the practical mechanics of the trade offs for "success"

So that's my advice for the OP for "dating advice" Live your life on your own terms. To your own value system. Only allow good people with integrity into your life. If some women want to go along for the ride for a while, OK, if that works out. If they don't then show them the door.

Don't chase sexy women. Go and live a sexy life.
 

Bluesbomber

Footballguy
I have been with my girl friend since March of 2021. Probably until June of 2022 (the last ~3 months), things have been going well. About 4 - 5 months into our relationship, it had become a long distance relationship, but we were making it work. I did most of the traveling, which was fine. We went to a few of her family weddings in April and early July of this year, but by July there were some issues developing. My girlfriend has much more relationship experience than me, I just don't have much sadly. She is much more into expressing yourself and I tend to not do that. Over time, and in the recent months, there were some issues that developed with communication. I think she contributed to me shutting down at times, but I agree with her that we need to work on that. By June as our problems with long-distance were also creating issues - prices were going up on airfares, I was traveling less. In her opinion, when I left, it would almost reset the relationship and probably wasn't wrong. She started to ask me about moving to her new location and I think I became scared, which lead me to be more closed down, stubborn, etc. I didn't realize it July because our conversations were going bad, and I think, looking back, I was more concerned with right than listening to her, but as recently as later July, we were still talking about me spending more time in her new location than now.

Between early August and until this past weekend, we hadn't talked on the phone, just pretty regular texting, but nothing serious. We saw each other last weekend. She was in town to see her mom who recently had some surgery. She spent the afternoon with me, and we had lunch and talked. The conversation was not uncomfortable, no tension like some of our phone calls. She did say out loud that she wasn't sure that she was actually ready for this relationship after her past ones, and that my lack of relationship experience are both real issues and made her have to understand what was next for us. She sort of hinted at dating outside of us, and that we could find our way back to each other, but I said I wasn't interested in that, just working things out with her. Looking back, I don't know if she was telling me that was what she was doing and I just didn't hear it, but she actually say that was what she was doing and the timeline for doing that is hard to believe is even possible. I told her I wanted to do what I could do and improve, etc. I think it was clear where I stood and she mentioned she needed to absorb and really think on what she needed. Over the last 10 days, there have been some very generic texts, but nothing about where we stood and she was often delayed in even responding. This past Saturday, I asked her, via text, if she would want to talk soon about us again. After close to 3 days with no response, I decided that I needed to send her a text laying out some things that I haven't said previously.

With her lack of response since we saw each about 10 days ago, and very disconnected text messages, the reality is that she probably may have broken up with me when we saw each other even though she didn't come out and say that. At the very least, she needed time to absorb, which means space. I have kept out hope because she didn't come right out with it, but as time goes on and she isn't really giving me anything definitive, I decided to do what is probably very stupid. At the same time, I thought I had one chance to try and fight for us. I sent her flowers and a long message this evening.

Below is the message I sent - it's long and I removed a few specific things, but it covers most everything. I guess I am holding out hope that I haven't lost her over the last 2-3 months and she will see how much I want to change and do what I can to find our way back to each other - again, most of our relationship has been great, but I do think recent months we haven't connected very well. In my head, while it's possible she could be threw with me, I don't think she would be in any serious relationship considering we were still talking (not productively) through early August, for the most part regular texting and she actually saw me 10 days ago. I don't know why she would see me, keep some line of communication going if she was completely done (her last text to me was on Friday), but I realize I am probably not being rational here. I guess I would be pretty destroyed if she started dating someone else in early August after 1.5 years of us, not actually officially breaking up with me and listening to her talking about her past as a reason to be cautious about her future. It wouldn't be better, but some finality would probably help me.

Maybe the answers are obvious and we are done, but what do you think?
Do I have any moves yet (good or bad)?
Why wouldn't she just respond and tell me things are over?
Is there any timeframe where she could respond?
Is there any reason for me to be optimistic?
I realize that this could also push her away if she's feeling stressed.
Like I said above, I don't think I could forgive myself if I didn't try to say everything. Maybe a bad move, but it wasn't like current status was working either. I thought I took a very self-reflective look that took on heads on some of the things that were coming up in our recent conversations that made things not go well. It may be too late, and I know sending a message can look desperate, but that's why I am. I love her, I think she felt the same about me, and just hoping that the last few months weren't when this ended.

I'm suffering mentally right now and am having a hard time processing. Optimism can help me right now if there's something else I can do or maybe if you think my message can help.

Message sent:

I sent flowers to you today as a way to show you I am thinking of you, and did some much needed recent self-reflection.
I am SO sorry for how our recent conversations have gone. I have been insensitive and showed a lack of empathy in not understanding or asking about your past - I realize how much it matters to who you are. I certainly should have done more this past weekend when we saw each other, but it also opened by eyes to realize my flaws, and self-reflect in how much I have hurt you and what matters most to me - you. I was way too stubborn and took too long to understand how I took us off-track. It took me time to understand that I was afraid of committing myself fully to our relationship when you asked about living in xxxxxx in late June. I was scared, closed off, distant, defensive and stopped listening in our relationship. It hurt our closeness, bond, intimacy and I am so ashamed that I let my fear overcome our connection. You did nothing wrong, I was just scared and I let that that hurt us.
I want to share with you what I learned and how I will do everything possible to regain our connection and your belief in us. I am asking for a leap of faith now and am pleading with you to not close the door on something that has been so meaningful to both of us. I know I have damaged our relationship and I do not mean to not give you space, but I want to fight for us and show you, not just through words, but through actions that our future can be amazing together in xxxxxx.
I am ALL in for every aspect of our lives together and I should have said much sooner. I have made mistakes in being defensive, guarded and didn't treat you like you were my partner. I treated you like you didn't matter when you have always mattered most to me.
I want to re-establish what we were building together and with some work, I do want to live in xxxxx with you full time - not in a year, but much sooner. You are what matters and I want to show that through my actions. I am so blessed to have found the most amazing person (you) who cares so much for me, and I hope I haven't squandered it.

You have made me a better person, but I need to do better in being fully supportive of you and sharing myself, being vulnerable. I want a life with you if you give me that chance. I really do think that we are two peas in a pod.
I need your help now. I am asking for something that I may not deserve and don't mean to pressure you. You told me that relationships are not just about logic, but emotion. I realize now how right you were and I will give every part of myself through my support, understanding and empathy, listening to you more deeply and improving our communication. I want to earn your faith back. Everything I said should have been said much sooner, and I will do better to improve our relationship. I realize how unique our relationship has been, and with recent self-reflection, I want to be part of everything in your life, and vice versa - the good, bad, normal, challenging, all of it!
When we saw each other in xxxxx, you mentioned you needed to absorb my comments on my hope for us continuing our relationship, what you need, and what our future is. I hope you are still absorbing. If you haven't given up on us, I would like to come to xxxxx this weekend and share even more, but I would do it in any way you'd allow me.

You are my best friend, my partner, my rock. You are my family..... I am so in love with you and want to continue together on our life journey that we began.

Let me know your thoughts and if you are willing to take a leap with me. I said a lot, but it's because you matter to me deeply. I am sorry for not sharing how scared I was, but I will make changes both for me, and for us. Our relationship is worth saving and I really believe our lives are better with us together, not apart.

I hope to hear back soon. I miss you so much and want to find our way back to each other. I hope you feel the same.
I Love You
Long distance relationships do not work...
 

GordonGekko

Footballguy

As an (amicably) divorced, remarried guy, I can admit the dynamic you describe exists. But it’s not “nearly all“ long-term relationships. Then again, going through life thinking as you do will invariably poison a partnership, so maybe it does apply to nearly all of your relationships?


"You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough." - Mae West



A "poisoned partnership" requires at least one low value/low character person.

When relationships go toxic, the common cause is one of -

A) A single person of low character/zero integrity

B) Both people are of low character/zero integrity

People will naturally behave in line with their real character. Over time, the "mask" they wear falls off. Spend enough time with someone and the real person eventually comes out. Toxic people will drag you down, it's not a matter of "If", it's a matter of "When"

I'm not a low character person. I'm not a person of zero integrity. I don't allow those people into my life. I don't allow those people near my godson. Surround yourself with high quality people who have good values and live by those values and you won't suffer "poison" in your relationships.

A lot of my advice to the OP is to look at people's actions ( that's the real truth) and look for markers of their overall character. Don't be an option for anyone. Only invest in people who treat you like a real priority.

Somehow you've tried to hilariously and tragically morph that into some pathway into yet another personal attack. It's actually good advice. Not just for the OP, but for everyone.

Let's see if I get this right. You stood before your family, your coworkers, your friends, people whom were close to you, before God and likely in a church, and swore your life to someone. Then later either you or the other person ( that you chose) reneged on those promises or both of you did together, then you later did it all over again. Swore your life and devotion to someone else. Words matter. Promises matter. Giving your word matters. I don't casually say the words "Through sickness and health, til death do us part" I weigh out those kind of words. I never spoke them because it's not the life I want to live. I recognized that very early.

I'm unwilling to live in a manner contrary to my value system. I won't speak those words because they wouldn't be true. They wouldn't be in line with living with real integrity.

You've sworn your life to someone. Then later did it again with someone else. And look how causally you dismiss surrendering your word and bond. What's the value of your word now?

But you can only be you. And do to yourself and others, like I discussed above, in a manner that is line with your overall character.

So let's be honest here, between the two of us, which of us has really "poisoned a partnership"?
 

GordonGekko

Footballguy
Sorry to hear about your bad opinion of women and your confusion about disaster movies imitating romantic relationships. I hope things work better for you in the future so you don't have to crap up someone else's honest thread.

/married 45 years to my best friend



“It was more than physical attraction; it was the broken thing inside him she loved most of all, the unreachable place where he kept his sadness. Because that was the thing about Peter Jaxon that nobody knew but her, because she loved him like she did: how terribly sad he was. And not just in the day-to-day, the ordinary sadness everyone carried for the things and people they had lost; his was something more. If she could find this sadness, Sara believed, and take it from him, then he would love her in return.”

- Justin Cronin, The Passage



Women aren't complicated. They desire to tame a successful man that simultaneously can't be broken but is already broken at the exact same time.

Nothing is sexier to a woman that a man she has to wait in line for and she knows if she gets her chance, and screws it all up, there will be a line around the block for his attention otherwise.

I see exactly what people are and pay attention exactly to what they do in their actions. I don't try to rationalize their behavior. I'm willing to have uncomfortable conversations about the actual human condition.

I'm an interesting person. I say interesting things. I can have interesting conversations. I know how to talk to people. At times, I can be thoughtful, kind and generous. I say and do what I want, when I want, and I don't give a damn if people like it or not. Whether people agree or not, it all comes from a genuine place. I don't go out of my way to treat people poorly. I actually treat most people very well. Lots of attractive women get infatuated with myself because I'm a puzzle they can't understand. They want to fix that "unreachable place" deep inside my soul.

The kind of men that most women find incredibly sexy are those with high social status that are mysteries that they desperately want to unlock.

To have something or someone "special" , then it naturally implies a large contrast point. That means there has to be a lot of of "not special" out there. What is the benefit of meeting "The One" if there are endless parades of high quality candidates out there for relationships and dating? So when I point out the toxic and flawed elements of the majority in the dating and relationship market, I'm almost immediately personally attacked. However in order for you stance to be true, it removes the entire element of someone being "special and unique" in a way to speaks to a person. That hard contrast where you are joyful that you found that one diamond in the rough.

My viewpoint of the majority of modern American women ( not all, but a vast majority) SPECIFICALLY FOR DATING AND RELATIONSHIPS has not changed. Not in 16 plus years on these forums. I consider the majority of them, not all but nearly all, SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO DATING AND RELATIONSHIPS to be toxic unhinged emotional terrorists. I don't negotiate with terrorists. I'm not going to pretend that what I believe to be emotional terrorists should be seen as something else for the sake of virtue signaling. Want proof? Look back into the archive of the FFA, where guys, all types of guys here from all kinds of backgrounds, talk about their relationship woes, marriage woes, dating woes, divorce woes, and on and on and on. This is my take on things, no one has to agree. If they see it differently, then they see it differently. But the part that really rubs so many the wrong way is that I'm extremely persuasive about my positions and viewpoints. They just don't come out of nowhere. They come with lots of context and lots of nuance behind them.

If you found someone "very special", then I'm happy for you. I also believe the overall community here would also be happy for you. Why would I begrudge you that happiness? Why would anyone here begrudge you that joy and peace in your life? But in order to have that "very special", how does that exist without a wide contrast to it? Do you think your wife would be pleased to know you believe there are lots of other "very special" women out there too? No, because women want to feel like they are a unique and a rare diamond in the rough. Odds are she would privately resent your position right now. So, for the contrast to exist, for myself to point it out, somehow that's now wrong? That's a terrible thing to discuss?

By being right, I'm offering "proof of life" about the quality of your relationship. By going on the typical cheap personal attack as you have, you are actually denouncing the quality of your relationship. I'm not doing that, you are doing that.

You swore you life to someone, then created maybe the truly worst "bad opinion" of them by association, just so you could attack me. And you failed at it. So you paid a lot for nothing. But that's your choice, your free speech, your decision.

When it comes to actually honoring your relationship and your commitment and showing real respect for it in public, I hope things work out better for you in the future.
 
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