Devin Hester is a better football player then Jamaal Charles? (1 Viewer)

[GridironMenace]

One of the things people aren't acknowledging about Hester is that he's a returner first and foremost because he's not good enough to be a star as a receiver. Most special teams aces are that because they're not good enough to start regularly and excel as skill position players. While Hester has given it the ol' college try as a starter at WR, no one would argue he's been a very good receiver, much less a great one.

an interesting dynamic to gp wirh this point (I'm not really sure who's side I think it supports). The Bears recognized the talent of Hester with the ball in his hands, so they converted him to WR and reduced his return duties. Obviously, in retrospect Hester would have had more value returning kicks full time. It looks like the Bears are beginning to accept this fact and are going to maximize his return duties again. So, the Bears are now saying a stud returnman is more valuable than an OK WR (the basic tradeoff they are making). If this is true, it could be a decent way to close the gap in value from "traditional" skill players to the return game. How good does a returnman have to be to be worth as much as a stud WR or RB? Obviously, the Bears thought the stud WR was worth more than the stud returnman because they made the change to begin with hoping Hester would pan out as a WR. How good would he have to be so that he was a WR first and a returnman second? I'm really not sure. If Hester was a 65/1000/6 type of WR, does he ever handle more than 50% of the the punt return duties?

There's a lots of ways to cut this jib...*** Many guys are returners early in their careers and then when they emerge as full time contributors on offense/defense, they have their return duties reduced/removed*** Guys that are returners for long periods of time have generally been ruled out as full-time contributors on offense/defense*** Anyone arguing that special teams is "1/3" of the game is making a strawman. Of course it's a facet of the game, but the personnel who focus primarily on special teams are generally considered lesser players than those who are mainly on offense/defense.

right first of all, the best players on the team generally don't play ST thats usually the guys that couldn't make the cut on offense or defense so to be fair, with awesome blocking Hester was scoring tds against Bums on S/T, while Charles was playing against the BIG BOYS from the AFC, Big time starters, not S/T Fodder... Its easy to tell who is just starting arguments. Everyone knows Charles is better then hester, More important to the team and changes the game more... Hester lovers you are done... Case Closed its already a fact. Hester scored 14 tds whooopie do he did it against brian munnervill haha geez PERIOD

This post just makes you look so dumb. How old are you? 14? Funny how Hester only scores TD's because of good blocking, but Charles scores TD's (well did score 5 whole TD's last year) without blocking. The fact that Charles has one of the best offensive lines in the game doesn't matter. The fact that Charles had the easiest strength of schedule against the run in the league last year doesn't have an impact on his yards per carry. Sure buddy. Not even Jason Wood, would agree with this post of yours. A matter of fact, I dare Wood to agree with you on the above post. He wouldn't dare, because he would lose all credibility as this is one of the dumbest posts I've read in the "Shark" Pool. Who let you out of the fresh water anyways? Anyways, Wood, want to support the above drivel?

 

[eakfootball]

Let me ask a questain, do people who are arguing for the Hester side, actually think Hester will get in the hall, or just think he is better than Charles?

 

[chitlins3]

I'm not so sure I wouldn't take DeSean over Hester in the return game for next year. Sure Hester has a had a much better career, but I guarantee Jackson has more return TDs next year.

This is just so stupid. Why put yourself out there with this unsubstantiated guesswork. There is nothing to base your opinion on other than blind guesswork. History says that you would be wrong as Hester scores more times per touch than Jackson. Your opinion is baseless. You're entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts. Please, don't let facts get in the way.

Jackson probobly has a better chance at the HOF than Hester since he is an elite receiver and return man. But it is a lost cause since neither Hester, Charles, or Jackson have any shot at getting in. But if I had to rank there chances it would go 1. Charles, 2. Jackson, 3. Hester.

Wrong again. You guys need to learn to separate the difference between getting into the HoF as a WR, a HB and a ST player. Jackson has no shot of getting into the HoF as a WR. Charles has no shot of getting into the HoF as a HB. Hester has no shot at getting into the HoF as a WR. HOWEVER, Hester is the greatest return man ever. What is so hard to understand about that? Seriously, that shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp. If Hester continues to dominant the return game and give the Bears an incredible field position advantage, he has a great shot at getting in as the first special teams player ever to get in.

I don't understand this post. How can there be a "difference between getting into the HoF as a WR, a HB and a ST player" when no special team player other than Stenerud has ever gotten in? The fact that there is only one special teamer inducted indicates that there is no separate distinction or evaluation process for special teams players. Also, the sentence "he has a great shot at getting in as the first special teams player ever to get in" made my head explode. How can Hester have a "great shot" if no returner and only one kicker have ever gotten in? Is it possible? Sure, anything's possible, but how can he have a "great shot" when him getting in flies in the face of the HOF's voting history from its inception to the present?I also don't understand the quick dismissal of Charles' HOF chances in this thread. He already has an AP First Team All-Pro selection at 23, and is averaging 6.0 ypc for his career (for reference, Charles has 487 carries in his career. The top qualifying RB - Marion Mottley at 5.7 ypc - had 828). Does he have years of work to do? Obviously. But there is nothing on his resume to date to indicate he has "no shot" - if he has a couple more first team all-pro selections and keeps his career ypc over 5 he is going to have a chance. Put it this way - if Charles has 6-7 more years just like last year he would be a stone cold lock for the HOF.

 

[D.J.]

Let me ask a questain, do people who are arguing for the Hester side, actually think Hester will get in the hall, or just think he is better than Charles?

Its pretty tough to argue who is better.between them, to be honest. Its like asking if a minivan is better than a pickup. They are completely different types.of vehicles. I know thats.how the arguement started, who is better. And I think that hester impacts the game more. I also agree with the premise that there are a lot more rb in the league that can equal the overall results of charles (yards, tds) if put in a similar situation. there arent many that I think can do what hester does. So, I think hester is a better returnman than charles is a rb. In that sense I would say hester is a better player. But I see the arguement that charles plays a more important position

 

[chitlins3]

One of the things people aren't acknowledging about Hester is that he's a returner first and foremost because he's not good enough to be a star as a receiver. Most special teams aces are that because they're not good enough to start regularly and excel as skill position players. While Hester has given it the ol' college try as a starter at WR, no one would argue he's been a very good receiver, much less a great one.

What's your point? He's the best special teams player in the history of the NFL. No one here is arguing that he is a good WR. He's an average (or even below average) WR. He has a legit shot at the HoF as the first return man to get in. Charles doesn't have a shot in h*ll to get in the HoF as a player at any position.Wood 2 questions:1) Which player is more replaceable: Charles or Hester?2) Charles and Arenas for Hester and Forte. Does KC do that deal?

How do you know that Charles doesn't have a shot in Hell to get in???? he is only 24 and in his 4th year. what if he has another 6-8 1000 yard seasons then what are you gonna say dude... You sound so idiotic right now You should just go back to where you came from, your argument holds no water, We learned here that the rankings are futile and no one cares what NFL network has to say or gridiron so go marry hester and shut up

If Hester has another 7 1,000 yard seasons, I'll say that he's a good HB. Even if he does that- which is doubtful- but for the sake of arguement let's say that he does, he still wouldn't get in. He won't have anywhere near the TD's numbers and another 7,000 yards will put him at about 9,500 yards and no one near the HoF. Charles will have a good career, but not HoF worthy as HB.The bar is so high to make the HoF as a HB that Charles can't meet it. Whereas Hester is the best return man ever. Everything he does from this point forward just adds additional distance between him and other return men. If the HoF committee recognizes that, Hester has a legit shot as the first special teams player ever to be enshrined. I feel like a broken record because no one is willing to accept this FACT. Not opinion. Fact.

Again, how can it be "FACT" when your whole premises is based on a variable - "If the HoF committee recognizes that". To date, the HOF committee has not been recognizing ST players. And again, you are selling Charles short for the sake of your argument. If he has 7 seasons of exactly 1,000 yards per season, sure he wouldn't get in. If he has 7 more seasons like the last 1.5 he would have an excellent chance.

 

[GridironMenace]

I'm not so sure I wouldn't take DeSean over Hester in the return game for next year. Sure Hester has a had a much better career, but I guarantee Jackson has more return TDs next year.

This is just so stupid. Why put yourself out there with this unsubstantiated guesswork. There is nothing to base your opinion on other than blind guesswork. History says that you would be wrong as Hester scores more times per touch than Jackson. Your opinion is baseless. You're entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts. Please, don't let facts get in the way.

Jackson probobly has a better chance at the HOF than Hester since he is an elite receiver and return man. But it is a lost cause since neither Hester, Charles, or Jackson have any shot at getting in. But if I had to rank there chances it would go 1. Charles, 2. Jackson, 3. Hester.

Wrong again. You guys need to learn to separate the difference between getting into the HoF as a WR, a HB and a ST player. Jackson has no shot of getting into the HoF as a WR. Charles has no shot of getting into the HoF as a HB. Hester has no shot at getting into the HoF as a WR. HOWEVER, Hester is the greatest return man ever. What is so hard to understand about that? Seriously, that shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp. If Hester continues to dominant the return game and give the Bears an incredible field position advantage, he has a great shot at getting in as the first special teams player ever to get in.

I don't understand this post. How can there be a "difference between getting into the HoF as a WR, a HB and a ST player" when no special team player other than Stenerud has ever gotten in? The fact that there is only one special teamer inducted indicates that there is no separate distinction or evaluation process for special teams players. Also, the sentence "he has a great shot at getting in as the first special teams player ever to get in" made my head explode. How can Hester have a "great shot" if no returner and only one kicker have ever gotten in? Is it possible? Sure, anything's possible, but how can he have a "great shot" when him getting in flies in the face of the HOF's voting history from its inception to the present?

Legit point. I say that because there has never been a player that is so head and shoulders above players at his position. In the past, a returner is a returner. Sure, some were better than others. But none had the impact on the game as Hester does. So the fact that his VBD (if you will) is so much higher than the next best player at his position, gives him unprecedented value. The HoF committee may just recognize that.

I also don't understand the quick dismissal of Charles' HOF chances in this thread. He already has an AP First Team All-Pro selection at 23, and is averaging 6.0 ypc for his career (for reference, Charles has 487 carries in his career. The top qualifying RB - Marion Mottley at 5.7 ypc - had 828). Does he have years of work to do? Obviously. But there is nothing on his resume to date to indicate he has "no shot" - if he has a couple more first team all-pro selections and keeps his career ypc over 5 he is going to have a chance. Put it this way - if Charles has 6-7 more years just like last year he would be a stone cold lock for the HOF.

He'll need more than 5 TD's per season and he won't play against the leagues easiest rushing schedule every year either.

 

[Jason Wood]

I see a lot of people pointing to Hester's TDs as proof he's the best return man ever. He's the most prolific scorer, but I'm not sure I'm ready to put him ahead of Gayle Sayers or Mel Gray for the best returner ever. Either way, I don't see how Hester has a real shot unless he does what he did in his first five years again in the next five.

I also think that Hester's inability to star as a receiver will be a SIGNIFICANT barrier to him when the voters get around to discussing his candidacy.

 

[Tau837]

Let's talk about this supposed monster advantage Chicago has had in starting field position thanks to Hester. Hester has been with Chicago for 5 seasons. Let's examine their average starting field position in the three years prior to his arrival:

2003: 33.05 yard line (180 drives)

2004: 32.12 yard line (205 drives)

2005: 33.63 yard line (188 drives)

Now let's examine the difference with Hester.

2006: 32.24 yard line (191 drives)

2007: 34.43 yard line (201 drives)

2008: 31.18 yard line (198 drives)

2009: 32.31 yard line (185 drives)

2010: 33.37 yard line (189 drives)

Before drawing any conclusions, let's examine what percentage of Chicago's returns Hester had:

2006: 67/109 (61.5%)

2007: 85/111 (76.6%)

2008: 63/116 (54.3%)

2009: 31/119 (26.1%)

2010: 45/92 (48.9%)

So, if we should give Hester credit for 2010, we have to also give him credit for 2006-2008. 2009 is the only real aberration here. So let's ignore 2009 and compare the average starting field position for Chicago before Hester and with Hester:

2003-2005 (pre-Hester): 32.91 yard line

2006-2008, 2010 (with Hester): 32.81 yard line

Hmm, not seeing any real advantage here. And even if we cut it down to just 2006-2007 to make it as advantageous to Hester as possible, it doesn't really show a significant difference:

2006-2007 (with Hester): 33.36 yard line

That's less than half a yard difference than in the three years prior to Hester's arrival.

I realize this is simplistic analysis, and there are a number of factors that go into starting field position. Plus, I assume TD returns are not included; Hester has 14 in 5 years, compared to 5 for Bears returners from 2003-2005. But that's not what I'm talking about here. The TDs are obviously the primary reason this conversation is happening. But some Hester fans are trying to add starting field position onto this, and it doesn't seem to be justified.

If anyone has different facts that help illuminate Hester's impact on starting field position, let's see them.

 

[Tau837]

I see a lot of people pointing to Hester's TDs as proof he's the best return man ever. He's the most prolific scorer, but I'm not sure I'm ready to put him ahead of Gayle Sayers or Mel Gray for the best returner ever. Either way, I don't see how Hester has a real shot unless he does what he did in his first five years again in the next five.

I also think that Hester's inability to star as a receiver will be a SIGNIFICANT barrier to him when the voters get around to discussing his candidacy.

Especially the bolded.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

if given the chance there are probably hundreds of players that could have put up the numbers Hester has as a return man.....remember the key part of that is "if given the chance"....heck if Charles was a return man only I would bet his numbers would be close or better...Chris Johnson....Barry Sanders.....Eric Dickerson....etc....fact is those players are too valuable elsewhere to take a chance of them getting hurt on special teams.....Devis Hester is not deemed...."too valuable"....

Charles could do what Hester does.....Hester cannot do what Charles does....

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

if given the chance there are probably hundreds of players that could have put up the numbers Hester has as a return man.....remember the key part of that is "if given the chance"....heck if Charles was a return man only I would bet his numbers would be close or better...Chris Johnson....Barry Sanders.....Eric Dickerson....etc....fact is those players are too valuable elsewhere to take a chance of them getting hurt on special teams.....Devis Hester is not deemed...."too valuable"....Charles could do what Hester does.....Hester cannot do what Charles does....

Any proof to back this up?I'll wait...

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Let's talk about this supposed monster advantage Chicago has had in starting field position thanks to Hester. Hester has been with Chicago for 5 seasons. Let's examine their average starting field position in the three years prior to his arrival:

2003: 33.05 yard line (180 drives)

2004: 32.12 yard line (205 drives)

2005: 33.63 yard line (188 drives)

Now let's examine the difference with Hester.

2006: 32.24 yard line (191 drives)

2007: 34.43 yard line (201 drives)

2008: 31.18 yard line (198 drives)

2009: 32.31 yard line (185 drives)

2010: 33.37 yard line (189 drives)

Before drawing any conclusions, let's examine what percentage of Chicago's returns Hester had:

2006: 67/109 (61.5%)

2007: 85/111 (76.6%)

2008: 63/116 (54.3%)

2009: 31/119 (26.1%)

2010: 45/92 (48.9%)

So, if we should give Hester credit for 2010, we have to also give him credit for 2006-2008. 2009 is the only real aberration here. So let's ignore 2009 and compare the average starting field position for Chicago before Hester and with Hester:

2003-2005 (pre-Hester): 32.91 yard line

2006-2008, 2010 (with Hester): 32.81 yard line

Hmm, not seeing any real advantage here. And even if we cut it down to just 2006-2007 to make it as advantageous to Hester as possible, it doesn't really show a significant difference:

2006-2007 (with Hester): 33.36 yard line

That's less than half a yard difference than in the three years prior to Hester's arrival.

I realize this is simplistic analysis, and there are a number of factors that go into starting field position. Plus, I assume TD returns are not included; Hester has 14 in 5 years, compared to 5 for Bears returners from 2003-2005. But that's not what I'm talking about here. The TDs are obviously the primary reason this conversation is happening. But some Hester fans are trying to add starting field position onto this, and it doesn't seem to be justified.



If anyone has different facts that help illuminate Hester's impact on starting field position, let's see them.

Lots of things impact field position.In Chicago, they run a cover 2 scheme in the "bend don't break" format. Which allows the opponents to gain yardage slowly and hoping they will make a mistake. It hopefully will allow less points, but they often gain yardage.

Chicago has yielded poor to average offenses, yardage wise for the greater part of the past two decades...which would give opponents better field position to start at...thus hurting starting field position.

Turnovers...Rex and Jay.

 

[D.J.]

if given the chance there are probably hundreds of players that could have put up the numbers Hester has as a return man.....remember the key part of that is "if given the chance"....heck if Charles was a return man only I would bet his numbers would be close or better...Chris Johnson....Barry Sanders.....Eric Dickerson....etc....fact is those players are too valuable elsewhere to take a chance of them getting hurt on special teams.....Devis Hester is not deemed...."too valuable"....Charles could do what Hester does.....Hester cannot do what Charles does....

I'm not sure that I agree. a lot of players that start their careers as backups and go on to be stars start with special teams. I don't think that any have shown the ability that hester has. I understand your point that stars dont play special teams once they become stars but most dont start there. They start on special teams and sometimes are very good, but not to hesters level. also, a returner is a.pretty different skillset than a reciever or a rb. I wouldnt assume that being a stud at one means you will.be a stud at another (see hester trying to be a wr, though for what its worth hester could probably be a good wr if he had played the.postion through college. I think the.nfl is.just too difficult for.most players to learn a new.position in)

 

[Stinkin Ref]

if given the chance there are probably hundreds of players that could have put up the numbers Hester has as a return man.....remember the key part of that is "if given the chance"....heck if Charles was a return man only I would bet his numbers would be close or better...Chris Johnson....Barry Sanders.....Eric Dickerson....etc....fact is those players are too valuable elsewhere to take a chance of them getting hurt on special teams.....Devis Hester is not deemed...."too valuable"....Charles could do what Hester does.....Hester cannot do what Charles does....

Any proof to back this up?I'll wait...

proof of what...?...it is simply a statement saying that there have been plenty of talented players that if given the chance to really only be return men, would probably be able to do what Hester does or even more.....you really can't argue that as many guys would have probably been really good return men if that is all they focused on...heck if Deion Sanders did it full time for his career and nothing else (which is basically what we are talking about with Hester), Hester probably wouldn't be in the same ball park....but unlike Hester, he had other skills that were too valuable to his team to just keep him on special teams only....if all Charles or Chris Johnson focused on was being "return guys", I bet they could be pretty explosive....the HOF has proven to be about actual football players, not being a one trick pony....Hester is a great return man....just not a HOF football player.....would I take him as my "all time return man"....maybe....but that don't mean he's a hall of famer....he won't sniff it.....

 

[T with T]

I'm not so sure I wouldn't take DeSean over Hester in the return game for next year. Sure Hester has a had a much better career, but I guarantee Jackson has more return TDs next year. Jackson probobly has a better chance at the HOF than Hester since he is an elite receiver and return man. But it is a lost cause since neither Hester, Charles, or Jackson have any shot at getting in. But if I had to rank there chances it would go 1. Charles, 2. Jackson, 3. Hester.

It would take Desean Jackson's entire career to eclipse Hester's return TDs just last year.Return TDs:

Hester in 2010=3

Desean Jackson in 2010=1

Jackson in 2009=2

Jackson in 2008=1

Attempts:

Desean Jackson 2008,2009,2010=101

Hester in 2010= 45

Give me a break

But Desean is 100 times better wr and Hester is just a st guy... thats the diff... Desean is way better then hester

Who's arguing WR? Nobody.100 times is facetious. Desean Jackson is overrated as a WR b/c he is flashy, kid had 47 receptions last year...Hester had 40.

to bad desean had double the yards and tds... receptions aren't the only thing... Desean is 100 times better then hester bud.. as for Gridiron. your done bud

 

[T with T]

I'm not so sure I wouldn't take DeSean over Hester in the return game for next year. Sure Hester has a had a much better career, but I guarantee Jackson has more return TDs next year.

This is just so stupid. Why put yourself out there with this unsubstantiated guesswork. There is nothing to base your opinion on other than blind guesswork. History says that you would be wrong as Hester scores more times per touch than Jackson. Your opinion is baseless. You're entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts. Please, don't let facts get in the way.

Jackson probobly has a better chance at the HOF than Hester since he is an elite receiver and return man. But it is a lost cause since neither Hester, Charles, or Jackson have any shot at getting in. But if I had to rank there chances it would go 1. Charles, 2. Jackson, 3. Hester.

Wrong again. You guys need to learn to separate the difference between getting into the HoF as a WR, a HB and a ST player. Jackson has no shot of getting into the HoF as a WR. Charles has no shot of getting into the HoF as a HB. Hester has no shot at getting into the HoF as a WR. HOWEVER, Hester is the greatest return man ever. What is so hard to understand about that? Seriously, that shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp. If Hester continues to dominant the return game and give the Bears an incredible field position advantage, he has a great shot at getting in as the first special teams player ever to get in.

I don't understand this post. How can there be a "difference between getting into the HoF as a WR, a HB and a ST player" when no special team player other than Stenerud has ever gotten in? The fact that there is only one special teamer inducted indicates that there is no separate distinction or evaluation process for special teams players. Also, the sentence "he has a great shot at getting in as the first special teams player ever to get in" made my head explode. How can Hester have a "great shot" if no returner and only one kicker have ever gotten in? Is it possible? Sure, anything's possible, but how can he have a "great shot" when him getting in flies in the face of the HOF's voting history from its inception to the present?I also don't understand the quick dismissal of Charles' HOF chances in this thread. He already has an AP First Team All-Pro selection at 23, and is averaging 6.0 ypc for his career (for reference, Charles has 487 carries in his career. The top qualifying RB - Marion Mottley at 5.7 ypc - had 828). Does he have years of work to do? Obviously. But there is nothing on his resume to date to indicate he has "no shot" - if he has a couple more first team all-pro selections and keeps his career ypc over 5 he is going to have a chance. Put it this way - if Charles has 6-7 more years just like last year he would be a stone cold lock for the HOF.

I told all you fellow sharks that Gridiron is either a troll or a disinformant lookin to rawl up the fellow sharks... Obviously the kid has no clue what he is talking about... Its already proven fact that charles is a stud and if he continues his 6.0 ypc hr he will be in the HOF..> Hester has 0 chance to get in the HOF and I will put anything on that bud... I got paypal if you wanna test me.... You need to wake up or grow up... Sharks don't like disinformants or trolls.... Trying to justify Hester as a HOF but not charles who is 24 and avg 6.0 ypc wake up man Gridiron with hester Case closed Grid go back to the kiddie land, the sharks are discussing stuff.. Before you talk about my dumb posts, ask some fellow sharkers about my credibility, I have tons of it pal, so take your head out of the sand... Hester had 2 good seasons and hasn't done didly squat since...

 

[SproutDaddy]

if given the chance there are probably hundreds of players that could have put up the numbers Hester has as a return man.....remember the key part of that is "if given the chance"....heck if Charles was a return man only I would bet his numbers would be close or better...Chris Johnson....Barry Sanders.....Eric Dickerson....etc....fact is those players are too valuable elsewhere to take a chance of them getting hurt on special teams.....Devis Hester is not deemed...."too valuable"....Charles could do what Hester does.....Hester cannot do what Charles does....

Any proof to back this up?I'll wait...

proof of what...?...it is simply a statement saying that there have been plenty of talented players that if given the chance to really only be return men, would probably be able to do what Hester does or even more.....you really can't argue that as many guys would have probably been really good return men if that is all they focused on...heck if Deion Sanders did it full time for his career and nothing else (which is basically what we are talking about with Hester), Hester probably wouldn't be in the same ball park....but unlike Hester, he had other skills that were too valuable to his team to just keep him on special teams only....if all Charles or Chris Johnson focused on was being "return guys", I bet they could be pretty explosive....the HOF has proven to be about actual football players, not being a one trick pony....Hester is a great return man....just not a HOF football player.....would I take him as my "all time return man"....maybe....but that don't mean he's a hall of famer....he won't sniff it.....

So, basically you don't have any proof. You're just speaking hypothetically which in no way supports your argument.

 

[T with T]

JC is the only rb to have over 1000 yards with less then 200 carries, then he follows it up with 1450 rushing yards and 6.4 ypc, leads the lead in ypc 2 years in a row, its not just easy schedule... haha I love how people try to justify why the guy was OUT OF THIS WORLD last year with nearly 2000 yards from scrimmage but has no chance to enter HOF... how do you know who will or wont.. You sound like you should go to Tennis... football isn't for you

 

[T with T]

JC is the only rb to have over 1000 yards with less then 200 carries, then he follows it up with 1450 rushing yards and 6.4 ypc, leads the lead in ypc 2 years in a row, its not just easy schedule... haha I love how people try to justify why the guy was OUT OF THIS WORLD last year with nearly 2000 yards from scrimmage but has no chance to enter HOF... how do you know who will or wont.. You sound like you should go to Tennis... football isn't for you

 

[SproutDaddy]

JC is the only rb to have over 1000 yards with less then 200 carries, then he follows it up with 1450 rushing yards and 6.4 ypc, leads the lead in ypc 2 years in a row, its not just easy schedule... haha I love how people try to justify why the guy was OUT OF THIS WORLD last year with nearly 2000 yards from scrimmage but has no chance to enter HOF... how do you know who will or wont.. You sound like you should go to Tennis... football isn't for you

I think it's time for mommy to take your internet priveleges away.

 

[T with T]

JC really only played 2 years because his rookie season in 08 he only had 57 carries, that doesn't count.. so for the two years he actually got carries he tore it up... stop hating grid... Hester is a chump best return man ever.... Gale sayers is better then Hester, and Hester like the last guy brought out is only ST player because he sucks at wr and Cb.... he was a lousy cb at MIAMI with stone hands, he is nowhere near the level of a JC... Charles is on the same level as Chris Johnson... Would you say Chris Johnson isn't as good as Hester.... I doubt it... Lets hear what you gotta say to that big shot

 

[T with T]

glorified Cb turned st player because he couldn't do anything else... JC is a Hb first but could be a returner as evidenced by that Sweet Punt return Td in 09 vs Pitt.... stop it you are sounding dumber by the minute grid

 

[T with T]

JC is the only rb to have over 1000 yards with less then 200 carries, then he follows it up with 1450 rushing yards and 6.4 ypc, leads the lead in ypc 2 years in a row, its not just easy schedule... haha I love how people try to justify why the guy was OUT OF THIS WORLD last year with nearly 2000 yards from scrimmage but has no chance to enter HOF... how do you know who will or wont.. You sound like you should go to Tennis... football isn't for you

I think it's time for mommy to take your internet priveleges away.

Mommy??? who are you sprout... Im 30 years old pal, I have my own home, computer and Do what I want, but thats besides the fact, Don't come to me when you don't know me bud

 

[T with T]

If you don't wanna get drug thru the mud don't come at me saying im DUMB... once you do that its over.. I give you choices and Grid Chose his... sorry pal... Come up with some better stats/arguments then just trying to bash people because I bash back but harder

 

[T with T]

Don't get your panties tied in a knot grid just some early season smack talk because I have been backing Charles since he was at Texas and was on message boards after his rookie year where he had only 50 atts and told everyone he was a stud in the making... peoplewere saying he was to small and couldn't be a starter. In his 2 season where he received 180+ carries and has been dominant... over 6ypc last two years.. As for not running against good competition, what about in the Playoffs splitting two, TWO of the NFL supposed top five players R. Lewis, E. Reed, maybe the best lb, safety combo ever and he split them guys like nothing and ran 50... Competition from last year to this year is irrelevant to me, especially since the NFL changes so much defensively. Go back and look at stats most top defensive teams from a year before are horrible the next year, so it is virtually impossible to even conclude that the schedule is tough. I hate when people bring that up it is the dumbest argument in the world... Don't be upset you didn't draft charles and you took stewart it will be ok

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

if given the chance there are probably hundreds of players that could have put up the numbers Hester has as a return man.....remember the key part of that is "if given the chance"....heck if Charles was a return man only I would bet his numbers would be close or better...Chris Johnson....Barry Sanders.....Eric Dickerson....etc....fact is those players are too valuable elsewhere to take a chance of them getting hurt on special teams.....Devis Hester is not deemed...."too valuable"....Charles could do what Hester does.....Hester cannot do what Charles does....

Any proof to back this up?I'll wait...

proof of what...?...it is simply a statement saying that there have been plenty of talented players that if given the chance to really only be return men, would probably be able to do what Hester does or even more.....you really can't argue that as many guys would have probably been really good return men if that is all they focused on...heck if Deion Sanders did it full time for his career and nothing else (which is basically what we are talking about with Hester), Hester probably wouldn't be in the same ball park....but unlike Hester, he had other skills that were too valuable to his team to just keep him on special teams only....if all Charles or Chris Johnson focused on was being "return guys", I bet they could be pretty explosive....the HOF has proven to be about actual football players, not being a one trick pony....Hester is a great return man....just not a HOF football player.....would I take him as my "all time return man"....maybe....but that don't mean he's a hall of famer....he won't sniff it.....

Again it's just an opinion based on no facts.Want a fact? Deion Sanders had 9 return TDs on 367 attempts= 1 TD per 40.8 attempts. That's double what it takes Hester.One Trick Pony? Peyton Manning is only great at passing the football...or Deion Sanders is only great at shutting down WRs.Do they say Peyton Manning isn't good at running the football or Deion Sanders can't tackle well? No, to get to the HOF you need to be amazing at something for at least 5 years or very good at something for a long time.Discounting Hester now is blind. What if he returns another 10 for TDs over the rest of his career(he is 28 now), would he be HOF material then?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

JC is the only rb to have over 1000 yards with less then 200 carries, then he follows it up with 1450 rushing yards and 6.4 ypc, leads the lead in ypc 2 years in a row, its not just easy schedule... haha I love how people try to justify why the guy was OUT OF THIS WORLD last year with nearly 2000 yards from scrimmage but has no chance to enter HOF... how do you know who will or wont.. You sound like you should go to Tennis... football isn't for you

I think it's time for mommy to take your internet priveleges away.

Mommy??? who are you sprout... Im 30 years old pal, I have my own home, computer and Do what I want, but thats besides the fact, Don't come to me when you don't know me bud

The way you treat everyone else in this thread because they don't agree with you shows your lack of maturity.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Don't get your panties tied in a knot grid just some early season smack talk because I have been backing Charles since he was at Texas and was on message boards after his rookie year where he had only 50 atts and told everyone he was a stud in the making... peoplewere saying he was to small and couldn't be a starter. In his 2 season where he received 180+ carries and has been dominant... over 6ypc last two years.. As for not running against good competition, what about in the Playoffs splitting two, TWO of the NFL supposed top five players R. Lewis, E. Reed, maybe the best lb, safety combo ever and he split them guys like nothing and ran 50... Competition from last year to this year is irrelevant to me, especially since the NFL changes so much defensively. Go back and look at stats most top defensive teams from a year before are horrible the next year, so it is virtually impossible to even conclude that the schedule is tough. I hate when people bring that up it is the dumbest argument in the world... Don't be upset you didn't draft charles and you took stewart it will be ok

Nobody is saying Charles is a bad player. I like Charles. In fact, in a dynasty rookie draft that occurs prior to the NFL Draft...I took Jamaal Charles ahead of Chris Johnson and Felix Jones.It takes so much more for RB to get to the HOF and RBs are much more replaceable. Hester is one of a kind currently.

 

[T with T]

JC is the only rb to have over 1000 yards with less then 200 carries, then he follows it up with 1450 rushing yards and 6.4 ypc, leads the lead in ypc 2 years in a row, its not just easy schedule... haha I love how people try to justify why the guy was OUT OF THIS WORLD last year with nearly 2000 yards from scrimmage but has no chance to enter HOF... how do you know who will or wont.. You sound like you should go to Tennis... football isn't for you

I think it's time for mommy to take your internet priveleges away.

Mommy??? who are you sprout... Im 30 years old pal, I have my own home, computer and Do what I want, but thats besides the fact, Don't come to me when you don't know me bud

The way you treat everyone else in this thread because they don't agree with you shows your lack of maturity.

I treat others very fairly until I feel I have been disrespected, then I can step it to another level. He called me childish and dumb and I didn't think too highly of it, what's wrong with a man defending himself, I never was talking smack to you, so why don't you just butt out of it ok?

 

[T with T]

im upset with all the negative feedback I see coming in on a J. Charles thread, no one cares about hester

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

im upset with all the negative feedback I see coming in on a J. Charles thread, no one cares about hester

Hence my reason to present facts in the argument and "butt" in.

 

[Tau837]

 

[Sabertooth]

Let me ask a questain, do people who are arguing for the Hester side, actually think Hester will get in the hall, or just think he is better than Charles?

He's technically in the Hall already isn't he? At least some of his memorabilia?

 

[Sabertooth]

Has Charles ever lead the league in rushing? Has he ever even led his conference? How about division?

 

[SproutDaddy]

JC is the only rb to have over 1000 yards with less then 200 carries, then he follows it up with 1450 rushing yards and 6.4 ypc, leads the lead in ypc 2 years in a row, its not just easy schedule... haha I love how people try to justify why the guy was OUT OF THIS WORLD last year with nearly 2000 yards from scrimmage but has no chance to enter HOF... how do you know who will or wont.. You sound like you should go to Tennis... football isn't for you

I think it's time for mommy to take your internet priveleges away.

Mommy??? who are you sprout... Im 30 years old pal, I have my own home, computer and Do what I want, but thats besides the fact, Don't come to me when you don't know me bud

The way you treat everyone else in this thread because they don't agree with you shows your lack of maturity.

I treat others very fairly until I feel I have been disrespected, then I can step it to another level. He called me childish and dumb and I didn't think too highly of it, what's wrong with a man defending himself, I never was talking smack to you, so why don't you just butt out of it ok?

I never called you childish or dumb. I merely insinuated that you were acting immature. You are the only person I've seen call someone names in this thread. You called Gridiron Menace and idiot and dumb. I've been given a two month timeout for the same thing, which is why I said what I did. As it stands though, yes, you are being a child about a player you obviously have on your fantasy team. This whole argument isn't as big of a deal as you've made it out to be.

 

[SproutDaddy]

Let me ask a questain, do people who are arguing for the Hester side, actually think Hester will get in the hall, or just think he is better than Charles?

I just think his ranking above Charles is justified thus far in their careers. He's meant much more to his team and has accomplished more in his career. He was a huge part of them reaching the Superbowl the year they did. At this point, he has more of a chance to get into the hof than Charles.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

if given the chance there are probably hundreds of players that could have put up the numbers Hester has as a return man.....remember the key part of that is "if given the chance"....heck if Charles was a return man only I would bet his numbers would be close or better...Chris Johnson....Barry Sanders.....Eric Dickerson....etc....fact is those players are too valuable elsewhere to take a chance of them getting hurt on special teams.....Devis Hester is not deemed...."too valuable"....

Charles could do what Hester does.....Hester cannot do what Charles does....

Any proof to back this up?

I'll wait...

proof of what...?...it is simply a statement saying that there have been plenty of talented players that if given the chance to really only be return men, would probably be able to do what Hester does or even more.....you really can't argue that as many guys would have probably been really good return men if that is all they focused on...heck if Deion Sanders did it full time for his career and nothing else (which is basically what we are talking about with Hester), Hester probably wouldn't be in the same ball park....but unlike Hester, he had other skills that were too valuable to his team to just keep him on special teams only....if all Charles or Chris Johnson focused on was being "return guys", I bet they could be pretty explosive....the HOF has proven to be about actual football players, not being a one trick pony....Hester is a great return man....just not a HOF football player.....would I take him as my "all time return man"....maybe....but that don't mean he's a hall of famer....he won't sniff it.....

Again it's just an opinion based on no facts.Want a fact? Deion Sanders had 9 return TDs on 367 attempts= 1 TD per 40.8 attempts. That's double what it takes Hester.

One Trick Pony? Peyton Manning is only great at passing the football...or Deion Sanders is only great at shutting down WRs.

Do they say Peyton Manning isn't good at running the football or Deion Sanders can't tackle well? No, to get to the HOF you need to be amazing at something for at least 5 years or very good at something for a long time.

Discounting Hester now is blind. What if he returns another 10 for TDs over the rest of his career(he is 28 now), would he be HOF material then?

no...not even close

 

[Chadstroma]

How many times do they need to say it? The NFL Network did not make the list. Active players voted. I think the problem is that the definition of what you were voting for was never really defined. Some take it off of body of work, some off of last years stats, some look at upside... and I am sure there are other factors like popularity and what not. It is also the first time this was done. I have a feeling that next year the list may be a little refined.

 

[GridironMenace]

If you don't wanna get drug thru the mud don't come at me saying im DUMB... once you do that its over.. I give you choices and Grid Chose his... sorry pal... Come up with some better stats/arguments then just trying to bash people because I bash back but harder

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

 

[T with T]

Has Charles ever lead the league in rushing? Has he ever even led his conference? How about division?

he was 2nd in the league in rushing last year and had 100 less rush atts then the leader foster... Charles led the lead for 2 seasons straight in YPC. He has been in the league for 3 years. What is your point, you sound like a ding bat with no stats???? Charles is amazing man wake up

 

[SproutDaddy]

Wow.......I'm simply speechless.

 

[T with T]

Let me ask a questain, do people who are arguing for the Hester side, actually think Hester will get in the hall, or just think he is better than Charles?

I just think his ranking above Charles is justified thus far in their careers. He's meant much more to his team and has accomplished more in his career. He was a huge part of them reaching the Superbowl the year they did. At this point, he has more of a chance to get into the hof than Charles.

Wrong, the list was for 2011, as it clearly states that but I think your on to something, it had a career type of feel to it, thats really the only justification of Ray lewis ahead of Patrick Willis, Demarcus ware and James Harrison... Anyways Charles has a better chance to get to the HOF then Hester trust me, and you believe diff you are being led wrong son.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Great stuff T and T (TNT...very clever)

Been awhile since I've seen this sort of shtick in the The Shark Pool.

 

[GridironMenace]

Been awhile since I've seen this sort of shtick in the The Shark Pool.

The sad thing is that it isn't 'schtick'.

 

[T with T]

close lol