Did the Lions get bent over by the refs? (1 Viewer)

[TobiasFunke]

Is there a rule against overturning calls after announcing them? If not, you're wasting your time. People are acting like it was changed after a play was run.

No, there isn't, and I tried to explain earlier (as have many commentators, so don't take my word for it) that the weirdness resulted from a miscommunication among the officials because they don't work together and don't know each other, due to the NFL's somewhat bizarre playoff assignment system for its zebras. Morelli got the call from the back judge (who threw the flag), either face to face or in his headset. The back judge then conferred with the head linesman (I don't know where the side judge, who works the same side as the HL, was on the play; I guess he must have been farther downfield watching another eligible receiver) and agreed to pick up the flag, but they either thought Morelli saw what they were doing or didn't act fast enough. So Morelli made the announcement although the flag had already been picked up, without knowing it. It was very unusual, sure, but it's really not that hard to understand how it happened. I clearly remember a Hochules game two or three seasons ago where Ed announced a penalty, then reversed it with a second announcement, but (a) it wasn't a playoff game, (b) Ed naturally offered a two-paragraph explanation for what happened, and © no one cared.

As for Morelli not making an announcement that the flag was being picked up, I'm pretty sure he did, and the rest of his explanation after "there is no foul on the play" was drowned out because the crowd noise was deafening. Buck declared immediately that the flag was being picked up, so it evidently wasn't that hard to tell what was going on from the press box.

The Dez Bryant thing is pretty weak. It was a substitution period. People are acting like players coming on the field without their helmets to sub in never happens, but it does; it's just not usually captured by the cameras.

I completely respect the views of anyone who feels it was DPI even though I disagree, but some of the other stuff in this thread (about this NEVER happening before, the Dez nonsense, "the NFL wanted the Cowboys to win" - which is news to Cowboys fans like me who haven't seen a lot of evidence of this NFL favoritism with our one previous playoff win since freaking 1995 - class action suits, etc.) is a bit surprising.

Dez was coming in to play defense on 4th and 1?

I hate conspiracy theories and I don't think there's any afoot here, but there's ample evidence of one-sided calls in the entire 4th quarter, not just on that one play. Flags were 5-0 in the 4th in favor of Dallas, with the Cowboys twice being bailed out on their stalled final drive by defensive holding (in the second instance the pass only got off thanks to a blatant hold in the pocket) while multiple instances of defensive holding the other way went uncalled (here's one from the Lions' final drive).

It's just the nature of today's NFL. Holding happens on every play- both ways thanks to the Seahawks success with "physical" play in the defensive backfield- so the refs' judgment is going to play a much bigger role in the outcome as compared to other sports. This week it happened to all go in the Cowboys' favor.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Is there a rule against overturning calls after announcing them? If not, you're wasting your time. People are acting like it was changed after a play was run.

No, there isn't, and I tried to explain earlier (as have many commentators, so don't take my word for it) that the weirdness resulted from a miscommunication among the officials because they don't work together and don't know each other, due to the NFL's somewhat bizarre playoff assignment system for its zebras. Morelli got the call from the back judge (who threw the flag), either face to face or in his headset. The back judge then conferred with the head linesman (I don't know where the side judge, who works the same side as the HL, was on the play; I guess he must have been farther downfield watching another eligible receiver) and agreed to pick up the flag, but they either thought Morelli saw what they were doing or didn't act fast enough. So Morelli made the announcement although the flag had already been picked up, without knowing it. It was very unusual, sure, but it's really not that hard to understand how it happened. I clearly remember a Hochules game two or three seasons ago where Ed announced a penalty, then reversed it with a second announcement, but (a) it wasn't a playoff game, (b) Ed naturally offered a two-paragraph explanation for what happened, and © no one cared.

As for Morelli not making an announcement that the flag was being picked up, I'm pretty sure he did, and the rest of his explanation after "there is no foul on the play" was drowned out because the crowd noise was deafening. Buck declared immediately that the flag was being picked up, so it evidently wasn't that hard to tell what was going on from the press box.

The Dez Bryant thing is pretty weak. It was a substitution period. People are acting like players coming on the field without their helmets to sub in never happens, but it does; it's just not usually captured by the cameras.

I completely respect the views of anyone who feels it was DPI even though I disagree, but some of the other stuff in this thread (about this NEVER happening before, the Dez nonsense, "the NFL wanted the Cowboys to win" - which is news to Cowboys fans like me who haven't seen a lot of evidence of this NFL favoritism with our one previous playoff win since freaking 1995 - class action suits, etc.) is a bit surprising.

Ooh, now your positional points make more sense. Geezus...

BTW, I hope you take this the right way.

Okay, sure. Your views don't bother me. As for my supposed inherent bias, I thought it was DPI all the way based on live action and was hollering a big rant for my viewing buddies about how Hitchens should really turn his head around, isn't playing in the Big Ten anymore, etc. Then they showed the replays and I noticed what Pettigrew did and saw that it was faceguarding.

 

[Jack White]

One of the worst calls I've ever seen. I also can't recall a ref ever picking up a flag after announcing the penalty over the PA. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was a Lions fan.

1. Scoring 6 points in the last 48 minutes of the game
2. Giving up a 76 yard TD on 3rd and 12 right before half
3. DeAndre Levey missing the tackle on 3rd and 10 which Dez turnined into a 50 yarder
4. Jim Caldwell not going for it on 4th and 1
5. Sam Martin flat out choking with a 10 yard shank

The call is what it is. Part of winning has to be overcoming adversity. They lost because they didn't make enough plays. One play isn't the whole game.

I'm not going to read the rest of this thread, because you absolutely nailed it.

Was it a bad call? I think it was.

Did it, in and of itself, cost Detroit the game? It did not.

 

[culdeus]

It was a PI, but that was no slam dunk win from that point. Keep in mind they didn't score a TD from the first quarter on. So assuming that holds they get 3 there. At best.

Still plenty of time for the rest of everything to shake out as it did in the 8 minutes left, Stafford to pull a Stafford, or Detroit simply doesn't score there.

 

[TobiasFunke]

One of the worst calls I've ever seen. I also can't recall a ref ever picking up a flag after announcing the penalty over the PA. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was a Lions fan.

1. Scoring 6 points in the last 48 minutes of the game
2. Giving up a 76 yard TD on 3rd and 12 right before half
3. DeAndre Levey missing the tackle on 3rd and 10 which Dez turnined into a 50 yarder
4. Jim Caldwell not going for it on 4th and 1
5. Sam Martin flat out choking with a 10 yard shank

The call is what it is. Part of winning has to be overcoming adversity. They lost because they didn't make enough plays. One play isn't the whole game.

I'm not going to read the rest of this thread, because you absolutely nailed it.

Was it a bad call? I think it was.

Did it, in and of itself, cost Detroit the game? It did not.

It came pretty close to costing Detroit the game by itself. If the call stands it's a first down in field goal range with the distinct possibility that Detroit scores a TD and ends the game- and even if they don't and the next Dallas drive ended in a TD, Detroit would have only needed a FG on that final drive, which would have changed their approach and their odds of success

Sure, Detroit could have simply negated the error by going for it on fourth down instead of punting (a moronic decision) and converting. Or they could have shifted the odds a bit with a decent punt. But both teams make mistakes in every game. That doesn't change the fact that the call likely changed the outcome.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

did anybody post this in this thread yet?:

http://deadspin.com/nfl-execs-pissed-that-head-of-officiating-seen-on-cowbo-1618048217

 

[Da Guru]

One of the worst calls I've ever seen. I also can't recall a ref ever picking up a flag after announcing the penalty over the PA. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was a Lions fan.

1. Scoring 6 points in the last 48 minutes of the game
2. Giving up a 76 yard TD on 3rd and 12 right before half
3. DeAndre Levey missing the tackle on 3rd and 10 which Dez turnined into a 50 yarder
4. Jim Caldwell not going for it on 4th and 1
5. Sam Martin flat out choking with a 10 yard shank

The call is what it is. Part of winning has to be overcoming adversity. They lost because they didn't make enough plays. One play isn't the whole game.

I'm not going to read the rest of this thread, because you absolutely nailed it.

Was it a bad call? I think it was.

Did it, in and of itself, cost Detroit the game? It did not.

It came pretty close to costing Detroit the game by itself. If the call stands it's a first down in field goal range with the distinct possibility that Detroit scores a TD and ends the game- and even if they don't and the next Dallas drive ended in a TD, Detroit would have only needed a FG on that final drive, which would have changed their approach and their odds of success

Sure, Detroit could have simply negated the error by going for it on fourth down instead of punting (a moronic decision) and converting. Or they could have shifted the odds a bit with a decent punt. But both teams make mistakes in every game. That doesn't change the fact that the call likely changed the outcome.

This is how I feel as well. Did the Refs mistake cost them the game? No Did it change the outcome? Yes. High % the Lions come away from that drive with at least 3. So even if the Cowboys scored a TD the Lions would only need a FG instead of a TD to win. A TD scored at that point would have probably iced the game. So the Refs mistake did influence the outcome of the game. Just don`t know to what degree.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Is there a rule against overturning calls after announcing them? If not, you're wasting your time. People are acting like it was changed after a play was run.

No, there isn't, and I tried to explain earlier (as have many commentators, so don't take my word for it) that the weirdness resulted from a miscommunication among the officials because they don't work together and don't know each other, due to the NFL's somewhat bizarre playoff assignment system for its zebras. Morelli got the call from the back judge (who threw the flag), either face to face or in his headset. The back judge then conferred with the head linesman (I don't know where the side judge, who works the same side as the HL, was on the play; I guess he must have been farther downfield watching another eligible receiver) and agreed to pick up the flag, but they either thought Morelli saw what they were doing or didn't act fast enough. So Morelli made the announcement although the flag had already been picked up, without knowing it. It was very unusual, sure, but it's really not that hard to understand how it happened. I clearly remember a Hochules game two or three seasons ago where Ed announced a penalty, then reversed it with a second announcement, but (a) it wasn't a playoff game, (b) Ed naturally offered a two-paragraph explanation for what happened, and © no one cared.

As for Morelli not making an announcement that the flag was being picked up, I'm pretty sure he did, and the rest of his explanation after "there is no foul on the play" was drowned out because the crowd noise was deafening. Buck declared immediately that the flag was being picked up, so it evidently wasn't that hard to tell what was going on from the press box.

The Dez Bryant thing is pretty weak. It was a substitution period. People are acting like players coming on the field without their helmets to sub in never happens, but it does; it's just not usually captured by the cameras.

I completely respect the views of anyone who feels it was DPI even though I disagree, but some of the other stuff in this thread (about this NEVER happening before, the Dez nonsense, "the NFL wanted the Cowboys to win" - which is news to Cowboys fans like me who haven't seen a lot of evidence of this NFL favoritism with our one previous playoff win since freaking 1995 - class action suits, etc.) is a bit surprising.

Dez was coming in to play defense on 4th and 1?

I hate conspiracy theories and I don't think there's any afoot here, but there's ample evidence of one-sided calls in the entire 4th quarter, not just on that one play. Flags were 5-0 in the 4th in favor of Dallas, with the Cowboys twice being bailed out on their stalled final drive by defensive holding (in the second instance the pass only got off thanks to a blatant hold in the pocket) while multiple instances of defensive holding the other way went uncalled (here's one from the Lions' final drive).

It's just the nature of today's NFL. Holding happens on every play- both ways thanks to the Seahawks success with "physical" play in the defensive backfield- so the refs' judgment is going to play a much bigger role in the outcome as compared to other sports. This week it happened to all go in the Cowboys' favor.

4th and 1? Huh? A DPI call results in a first down spot foul. But in any event, I was wrong by implying that Bryant was coming in; I should have said that players coming off the bench during sub periods, whether they're coming in to the game or not, happens all the time. Almost universally, the officials do nothing or issue a warning to the player to get back on the bench, huddle up, or get to their position, as applicable. You can see a lot of this stuff with decent seats at a game; because of the size of the field, the cameras miss a lot, particularly involving the officials.

I'm glad you're not into conspiracy theories, but embarked on one anyway. In any event, the fourth quarter penalties were actually 5-1 in favor of Dallas; Terrance Williams was called for a false start on the play right before he caught the go-ahead TD. And of the Lions' five 4Q penalties, one was Whitehead's helmet-to-helmet blasting of Beasley, one was a delay of game on Stafford, and one was that false start on CJohnson on the final drive. Real solid evidence of one-sidedness.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

One of the worst calls I've ever seen. I also can't recall a ref ever picking up a flag after announcing the penalty over the PA. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was a Lions fan.

• Scoring 6 points in the last 48 minutes of the game
• Giving up a 76 yard TD on 3rd and 12 right before half
• DeAndre Levey missing the tackle on 3rd and 10 which Dez turnined into a 50 yarder
• Jim Caldwell not going for it on 4th and 1
• Sam Martin flat out choking with a 10 yard shank

The call is what it is. Part of winning has to be overcoming adversity. They lost because they didn't make enough plays. One play isn't the whole game.

/thread

 

[rockaction]

One of the worst calls I've ever seen. I also can't recall a ref ever picking up a flag after announcing the penalty over the PA. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was a Lions fan.

• Scoring 6 points in the last 48 minutes of the game
• Giving up a 76 yard TD on 3rd and 12 right before half
• DeAndre Levey missing the tackle on 3rd and 10 which Dez turnined into a 50 yarder
• Jim Caldwell not going for it on 4th and 1
• Sam Martin flat out choking with a 10 yard shank

The call is what it is. Part of winning has to be overcoming adversity. They lost because they didn't make enough plays. One play isn't the whole game.

/thread

No. If the umps let A-Rod slap the ball out of our hands in the '04 ALCS, the Red Sox lose. Nope. Not correct.

 

[Tom Servo]

Goodell probably has a direct line into the ref's earpiece. Obviously the league wants "America's Team" to progress as far as possible in the postseason. It's good for their brand. Why even play the game if you aren't going to call it fairly? Just give Dallas a bye. It's turning into wrestling, a complete farce of a sport.

Must've been the same NFL that kept them out of the playoffs most of the last few years.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

That BS acting job by the punter that gave the Lions a 1st down deep in their own territory after the Cowboys held them was more of a controversial call, IMO. He was yoking it up and slapping five after it was called. Total crap.

The Willie McGinest™

 

[Guest]

Was there any doubt the Lions would be involved in some type of controversy?

 

[rockaction]

Officials have to get the calls right. They have to have the appearance that there is no conflict of interest. I'm not going conspiracy, or even remotely such, because I saw the head of the officiating crew a few weeks ago in a game, and it was awful.

This stinks. They got bent.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Was there any doubt the Lions would be involved in some type of controversy?

Somebody check Bobby Layne's grave site. Laughter was said to be heard.

 

[jomar]

4th and 1? Huh? A DPI call results in a first down spot foul. But in any event, I was wrong by implying that Bryant was coming in; I should have said that players coming off the bench during sub periods, whether they're coming in to the game or not, happens all the time. Almost universally, the officials do nothing or issue a warning to the player to get back on the bench, huddle up, or get to their position, as applicable. You can see a lot of this stuff with decent seats at a game; because of the size of the field, the cameras miss a lot, particularly involving the officials.

what does any of this have to do with Dez running onto the field to yell at the referees?

 

[Sabertooth]

Was there any doubt the Lions would be involved in some type of controversy?

Typical fan reaction. Never their fault. Always need to point the finger.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Is there a rule against overturning calls after announcing them? If not, you're wasting your time. People are acting like it was changed after a play was run.

No, there isn't, and I tried to explain earlier (as have many commentators, so don't take my word for it) that the weirdness resulted from a miscommunication among the officials because they don't work together and don't know each other, due to the NFL's somewhat bizarre playoff assignment system for its zebras. Morelli got the call from the back judge (who threw the flag), either face to face or in his headset. The back judge then conferred with the head linesman (I don't know where the side judge, who works the same side as the HL, was on the play; I guess he must have been farther downfield watching another eligible receiver) and agreed to pick up the flag, but they either thought Morelli saw what they were doing or didn't act fast enough. So Morelli made the announcement although the flag had already been picked up, without knowing it. It was very unusual, sure, but it's really not that hard to understand how it happened. I clearly remember a Hochules game two or three seasons ago where Ed announced a penalty, then reversed it with a second announcement, but (a) it wasn't a playoff game, (b) Ed naturally offered a two-paragraph explanation for what happened, and © no one cared.

As for Morelli not making an announcement that the flag was being picked up, I'm pretty sure he did, and the rest of his explanation after "there is no foul on the play" was drowned out because the crowd noise was deafening. Buck declared immediately that the flag was being picked up, so it evidently wasn't that hard to tell what was going on from the press box.

The Dez Bryant thing is pretty weak. It was a substitution period. People are acting like players coming on the field without their helmets to sub in never happens, but it does; it's just not usually captured by the cameras.

I completely respect the views of anyone who feels it was DPI even though I disagree, but some of the other stuff in this thread (about this NEVER happening before, the Dez nonsense, "the NFL wanted the Cowboys to win" - which is news to Cowboys fans like me who haven't seen a lot of evidence of this NFL favoritism with our one previous playoff win since freaking 1995 - class action suits, etc.) is a bit surprising.

Dez was coming in to play defense on 4th and 1?

I hate conspiracy theories and I don't think there's any afoot here, but there's ample evidence of one-sided calls in the entire 4th quarter, not just on that one play. Flags were 5-0 in the 4th in favor of Dallas, with the Cowboys twice being bailed out on their stalled final drive by defensive holding (in the second instance the pass only got off thanks to a blatant hold in the pocket) while multiple instances of defensive holding the other way went uncalled (here's one from the Lions' final drive).

It's just the nature of today's NFL. Holding happens on every play- both ways thanks to the Seahawks success with "physical" play in the defensive backfield- so the refs' judgment is going to play a much bigger role in the outcome as compared to other sports. This week it happened to all go in the Cowboys' favor.

4th and 1? Huh? A DPI call results in a first down spot foul. But in any event, I was wrong by implying that Bryant was coming in; I should have said that players coming off the bench during sub periods, whether they're coming in to the game or not, happens all the time. Almost universally, the officials do nothing or issue a warning to the player to get back on the bench, huddle up, or get to their position, as applicable. You can see a lot of this stuff with decent seats at a game; because of the size of the field, the cameras miss a lot, particularly involving the officials.

I'm glad you're not into conspiracy theories, but embarked on one anyway. In any event, the fourth quarter penalties were actually 5-1 in favor of Dallas; Terrance Williams was called for a false start on the play right before he caught the go-ahead TD. And of the Lions' five 4Q penalties, one was Whitehead's helmet-to-helmet blasting of Beasley, one was a delay of game on Stafford, and one was that false start on CJohnson on the final drive. Real solid evidence of one-sidedness.

There's a significant difference between saying the calls favored one team and saying that the calls favored one team as part of a conspiracy to achieve a certain result.

My bad on the 5-1 count, you're right about that. However, the calls clearly favored one team- just the defensive holding calls/non-calls clearly could have gone both ways on several occasions and went Dallas's way each time. But I don't think it was because anyone wanted Dallas to win. It was just poor reffing and home cooking (there's a reason everyone fights hard for home playoff games). That stuff happens all the time. Just terrible luck for Detroit, not a conspiracy theory holding them down.

 

[jhib]

For those thinking it was a slam-dunk PI call, is it the hand on the shoulder or something else?

The reason I felt the call could have pretty easily gone either way was that the receiver was initiating the contact (ignoring the earlier hold, of course). From the one view, it is pretty clear that Hitchens' left hand goes up to the shoulder at the end of a motion to push away Pettigrew's arm to get his hand off his facemask. And since Pettigrew is still moving in that direction (with only his arms moving toward the ball) it doesn't seem that the hand to the shoulder does very much actual pushing.

And I hate the Cowboys...

 

[TobiasFunke]

For those thinking it was a slam-dunk PI call, is it the hand on the shoulder or something else?

The reason I felt the call could have pretty easily gone either way was that the receiver was initiating the contact (ignoring the earlier hold, of course). From the one view, it is pretty clear that Hitchens' left hand goes up to the shoulder at the end of a motion to push away Pettigrew's arm to get his hand off his facemask. And since Pettigrew is still moving in that direction (with only his arms moving toward the ball) it doesn't seem that the hand to the shoulder does very much actual pushing.

And I hate the Cowboys...

I think the fact that it was thrown and called and then later reversed is what has everyone's panties in a bunch. You don't see that a lot.

IMO the missed defensive holding earlier in the same play was far worse than the missed PI. Hitchens pulled on the bottom of Pettigrew's jersey at around the 37/38 yard line and slows him up considerably.

 

[Smack Tripper]

For those thinking it was a slam-dunk PI call, is it the hand on the shoulder or something else?

The reason I felt the call could have pretty easily gone either way was that the receiver was initiating the contact (ignoring the earlier hold, of course). From the one view, it is pretty clear that Hitchens' left hand goes up to the shoulder at the end of a motion to push away Pettigrew's arm to get his hand off his facemask. And since Pettigrew is still moving in that direction (with only his arms moving toward the ball) it doesn't seem that the hand to the shoulder does very much actual pushing.

And I hate the Cowboys...

At a minimum, there was a hold on the play, can't find the screen grab right now but the defender has Pettigrew's shirt tail at one point

 

[Tom Servo]

/thread

Failing to hold a lead cost Detroit the game, as did turning the ball over three times, as did shanking a punt and failing to make Dallas drive any appreciable chunk of the field, as did letting Tony Romo lead a game-winning drive, complete with a fourth-down conversion, as did failing to answer in the 2:32 Matthew Stafford was given to go 80 yards. The Cowboys were better, and better later, and deserved to win the game, and if the Lions caught a strange and bad break on the controversial no-call, they had multiple chances to render it meaningless, and did not.

 

[McGarnicle]

At minimum, we should all be able to agree that shuffling up the officiating crews for the playoffs is the height of stupidity. How the league has not figured this out yet is mind-boggling.

 

[jomar]

lets assume for a minute that this was the worst PI call in the history of the game. does that not make it a penalty for a player to run onto the field and start screaming at the refs?

even if the NFL is going to argue that the right call was made on the PI, what can they say about 6 referees missing a player on the field (without his helmet on making him stick out even more) yelling about the bad call? mind you, he wasn't a few feet on the field, he was well onto the field. how can one of the best officiating crews the NFL has miss something so obvious?

 

[Jack White]

One of the worst calls I've ever seen. I also can't recall a ref ever picking up a flag after announcing the penalty over the PA. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was a Lions fan.

1. Scoring 6 points in the last 48 minutes of the game
2. Giving up a 76 yard TD on 3rd and 12 right before half
3. DeAndre Levey missing the tackle on 3rd and 10 which Dez turnined into a 50 yarder
4. Jim Caldwell not going for it on 4th and 1
5. Sam Martin flat out choking with a 10 yard shank

The call is what it is. Part of winning has to be overcoming adversity. They lost because they didn't make enough plays. One play isn't the whole game.

I'm not going to read the rest of this thread, because you absolutely nailed it.

Was it a bad call? I think it was.

Did it, in and of itself, cost Detroit the game? It did not.

It came pretty close to costing Detroit the game by itself. If the call stands it's a first down in field goal range with the distinct possibility that Detroit scores a TD and ends the game- and even if they don't and the next Dallas drive ended in a TD, Detroit would have only needed a FG on that final drive, which would have changed their approach and their odds of success

Sure, Detroit could have simply negated the error by going for it on fourth down instead of punting (a moronic decision) and converting. Or they could have shifted the odds a bit with a decent punt. But both teams make mistakes in every game. That doesn't change the fact that the call likely changed the outcome.

This is how I feel as well. Did the Refs mistake cost them the game? No Did it change the outcome? Yes.

Do you realize you contradicted yourself?

In a 60-minute game, the outcome never comes down to one bad call by an official. The players decide the outcome, and the fact is the Dallas players outperformed the Detroit players over the course of 60 minutes.

 

[pantagrapher]

I thought it was clearly PI. But I also don't care.

 

[Zow]

Uh, I seriously thought the class action suit was some fishing about Zangrilli.

I'll bow out of this. That's not what I was

defending. That's, um, a touch litigious.

Yeah I was wondering where you got that.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

In my mind the real shame here was that both teams, the Lions and the Cowboys, could not have been simultaneously screwed out of the win by poor officiating.

Sadly one of them had to be allowed to move on.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Detroit scored 3 points in the entire second half. Just saying.

 

[jomar]

/thread

Failing to hold a lead cost Detroit the game, as did turning the ball over three times, as did shanking a punt and failing to make Dallas drive any appreciable chunk of the field, as did letting Tony Romo lead a game-winning drive, complete with a fourth-down conversion, as did failing to answer in the 2:32 Matthew Stafford was given to go 80 yards. The Cowboys were better, and better later, and deserved to win the game, and if the Lions caught a strange and bad break on the controversial no-call, they had multiple chances to render it meaningless, and did not.

2 TOs came on the last drive, one on the final play. 3 TOs is slightly misleading, I'd say.

also, they didn't let Romo lead a game winning drive. in fact, twice they held on 3rd down. one time Dallas went for it and picked it up (with Witten jumping offsides on 4th down but not called) and the other 3rd down Levy was called for a hold while the officials missed an obvious holding on the tackle for Dallas. either of those calls go the other way and we might be talking about a Lions victory. but they didn't and these kind of calls happen every game. what doesn't happen every game is textbook PI calls made correctly but then changed after announced. and players running out on the field to complain about calls not getting flagged.

Detroit has lost games in worse ways than this so this is nothing new to Lion fans. what is nice is that the nation got to see it this time and, hence, the national outcry. the referees should've let the call stand, penalize Dez as well, and let Detroit lose the game on their own, as they probably would have done anyway. as it happened, it changed the entire scope of the game. would Detroit have scored a TD and put the game away? kick a FG and lose 24-23? kick a FG and win 23-17? kick a fg and win 26-24? turn the ball over and lose 24-20? we'll never know because of incompetent officiating.

if I were a Dallas fan, I wouldn't have a problem saying we got a gift or two and took advantage. I don't have a problem saying we got gifts against NO and ATL this year to win those games. of course, we didn't them from the referees, it was the other team but we still got lucky.

 

[Thunderlips]

Detroit was in a great situation and let themselves get beat. Yes, those were two bad calls that affected that drive (admittedly if they maintain that drive it puts them in a better position to win).......

* To me, (besides Dallas benefitting from the call) the real problem is in how the refs handled it; no explanation.

 

[McGarnicle]

Detroit scored 3 points in the entire second half. Just saying.

Lions only had 11 guys on the field, Cowboys had 18.

 

[msudaisy26]

I am not a Lion fan, but I live in Michigan. Does anyone think I can get some money from this law suit? How much money are we talking? Is it a lock that we win and I should book my vacation now? Maybe i should edit the first part of my post, will that disqualify me from my portion of the decision?

Any lawyers that could answer my question? TIA

 

[TobiasFunke]

/thread

Failing to hold a lead cost Detroit the game, as did turning the ball over three times, as did shanking a punt and failing to make Dallas drive any appreciable chunk of the field, as did letting Tony Romo lead a game-winning drive, complete with a fourth-down conversion, as did failing to answer in the 2:32 Matthew Stafford was given to go 80 yards. The Cowboys were better, and better later, and deserved to win the game, and if the Lions caught a strange and bad break on the controversial no-call, they had multiple chances to render it meaningless, and did not.

You can make the "they could have won the game anyway" argument about every blown call, because every team does good and bad things in every game.

The 1972 US Olympic basketball team could have just made more shots and rendered the final play meaningless. Miami could have ended the 2003 Fiesta Bowl in regulation or won in the second overtime and rendered the controversial pass interference call meaningless. The Cardinals could have regrouped and gotten the outs after the Don Denkinger blown call in Game 6 or just won Game 7. Does that mean those teams had nothing to complain about?

 

[jhib]

For those thinking it was a slam-dunk PI call, is it the hand on the shoulder or something else?

The reason I felt the call could have pretty easily gone either way was that the receiver was initiating the contact (ignoring the earlier hold, of course). From the one view, it is pretty clear that Hitchens' left hand goes up to the shoulder at the end of a motion to push away Pettigrew's arm to get his hand off his facemask. And since Pettigrew is still moving in that direction (with only his arms moving toward the ball) it doesn't seem that the hand to the shoulder does very much actual pushing.

And I hate the Cowboys...

I think the fact that it was thrown and called and then later reversed is what has everyone's panties in a bunch. You don't see that a lot.

IMO the missed defensive holding earlier in the same play was far worse than the missed PI. Hitchens pulled on the bottom of Pettigrew's jersey at around the 37/38 yard line and slows him up considerably.

For those thinking it was a slam-dunk PI call, is it the hand on the shoulder or something else?

The reason I felt the call could have pretty easily gone either way was that the receiver was initiating the contact (ignoring the earlier hold, of course). From the one view, it is pretty clear that Hitchens' left hand goes up to the shoulder at the end of a motion to push away Pettigrew's arm to get his hand off his facemask. And since Pettigrew is still moving in that direction (with only his arms moving toward the ball) it doesn't seem that the hand to the shoulder does very much actual pushing.

And I hate the Cowboys...

At a minimum, there was a hold on the play, can't find the screen grab right now but the defender has Pettigrew's shirt tail at one point

Yeah, I see that. There are a lot of other things that happened during the play and directly after. I guess I was just trying to focus on that one call and whether or not it was so obviously PI as a lot of people have claimed.

 

[shadyridr]

It saddens me that about 1\3 of football guys don't understand football

almost as sad as those who don't know which way the division symbol faces.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

It saddens me that about 1\3 of football guys don't understand football

almost as sad as those who don't know which way the division symbol faces.

lol

 

[MattFancy]

* To me, (besides Dallas benefitting from the call) the real problem is in how the refs handled it; no explanation.

That's my biggest gripe.

You see calls get missed in every game. It happens. You also see flags get picked up all the time. However, you don't see a penalty get announced by the ref and the ball spotted to the spot of the foul and then have the ref announce there was no penalty and move the ball back to the original spot. Especially without an explanation. Hell, Hochuli would still be explaining what happened.

It just made no sense to me that the back judge was over ruled so easily by the head linesmen. But, that's what happens when the NFL comes up with their great idea of "All-Star Crews" for the playoffs. You get guys that haven't worked with one another and become unsure of themselves.

 

[GroveDiesel]

It was clearly a horrible call, as was the non-call on Dez Bryant.

That said, the Lions still had lots of opportunities to win the game. Instead, their coach essentially quit by punting on the ensuing play. Let's all keep in mind that Jim Caldwell had a lot to do with the result.

Overturning the pea fly was awful. But, Stafford throwing a horrible pass to begin with was awful too. So was Caldwell not going for it on 4th and 1 in that situation. Worst of all was the 10 yard punt. After fake going for it on 4th down and taking the 5 yard delay of game, a 10 yard punt netted them 5 yards. That's just unreal.

So the refs were bad, but the Lions took a car with a flat tire and immediately steered it directly off of a cliff. And the. Poured gasoline on it and lit it on fire.

 

[Anarchy99]

Haven't read the thread, but they missed four infractions on the same play.

The first was defensive holding. The defender grabbed and held on to the receiver's jersey.

Next the receiver grabs the face mask of the defender, so should have been a face mask, illegal hands to the face, or an offensive pass interference call.

Next would be the blown defensive pass interference call, which I don't know what the rules are if the offensive player's infraction contributes to a defender making a penalty if it is then still a penalty. Pettigrew straight armed the defender and was holding his face mask and upon release the defender ran into him.

The last one was Bryant running on to the field. IMO, he should have been given an unsportsmanlike penalty for being on field without a helmet on or getting in the grill of the ref when he was not even on the field for the play.

Net result should have been replay the down for offsetting penalties and also assessing 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty against Dallas which would have been a first down.

 

[nittanylion]

I'm probably on a pretty sparsely populated island with this POV, but I'm a firm supporter of 'Jordan Rules' across all sports, that give intangible advantages to consistantly superior Teams and/or home Teams. In this case, I mean that I think it's absolutely OK for the home team, especially during a playoff game, to get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to anything questionable or borderline. I like home-field advantage to mean something big, and I don't mind if that extends to what happens on the field. Winning on the road should be as tough as it gets, IMO, and I'm OK if that means the officials slant borderline calls in favor of the Team that put themselves in position to be playing in front of their home crowd. Want to 'get the calls', then either be a consistent winner, or play your way into hosting a game.

I can't imagine I'm the only one who's seen a ticky-tack foul get called against a home team and said something to the effect of: "You just can't make that call against the home team, especially during a playoff game!!!"

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I'm OK with that kind of stuff.

 

[rockaction]

I'm probably on a pretty sparsely populated island with this POV, but I'm a firm supporter of 'Jordan Rules' across all sports, that give intangible advantages to consistantly superior Teams and/or home Teams. In this case, I mean that I think it's absolutely OK for the home team, especially during a playoff game, to get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to anything questionable or borderline. I like home-field advantage to mean something big, and I don't mind if that extends to what happens on the field. Winning on the road should be as tough as it gets, IMO, and I'm OK if that means the officials slant borderline calls in favor of the Team that put themselves in position to be playing in front of their home crowd. Want to 'get the calls', then either be a consistent winner, or play your way into hosting a game.

I can't imagine I'm the only one who's seen a ticky-tack foul get called against a home team and said something to the effect of: "You just can't make that call against the home team, especially during a playoff game!!!"

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I'm OK with that kind of stuff.

This is too dumb for a real comment, so I'll just fart.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I voted yes. Not for the call itself, but for the way in which it was handled.

 

[Sabertooth]

Losers lose. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised.

 

[Capella]

The league would also help itself if they held officials to the same scrutiny as players and coaches with respect to the media. To have written quotes from a pool reporter is just weak.

Sounds like you have your first motion in your case.

 

[D in the D]

I'm probably on a pretty sparsely populated island with this POV, but I'm a firm supporter of 'Jordan Rules' across all sports, that give intangible advantages to consistantly superior Teams and/or home Teams. In this case, I mean that I think it's absolutely OK for the home team, especially during a playoff game, to get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to anything questionable or borderline. I like home-field advantage to mean something big, and I don't mind if that extends to what happens on the field. Winning on the road should be as tough as it gets, IMO, and I'm OK if that means the officials slant borderline calls in favor of the Team that put themselves in position to be playing in front of their home crowd. Want to 'get the calls', then either be a consistent winner, or play your way into hosting a game.

I can't imagine I'm the only one who's seen a ticky-tack foul get called against a home team and said something to the effect of: "You just can't make that call against the home team, especially during a playoff game!!!"

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I'm OK with that kind of stuff.

The Pistons used to say something to the effect of "in order to beat the Celtics in the Garden by two, you have to beat them by 20." I guess they were probably complaining about home cooking but at least understood it going in.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Can someone clear something up for me?

- I was told that some or all instant replay reviews now get coordinated directly with the ref oversight team in the league office - is that true?

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/03/26/nfl-officiating-replay

Is this necessarily a good thing, I mean the league having a direct line to refs in-game?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

* To me, (besides Dallas benefitting from the call) the real problem is in how the refs handled it; no explanation.

That's my biggest gripe.

You see calls get missed in every game. It happens. You also see flags get picked up all the time. However, you don't see a penalty get announced by the ref and the ball spotted to the spot of the foul and then have the ref announce there was no penalty and move the ball back to the original spot. Especially without an explanation. Hell, Hochuli would still be explaining what happened.

It just made no sense to me that the back judge was over ruled so easily by the head linesmen. But, that's what happens when the NFL comes up with their great idea of "All-Star Crews" for the playoffs. You get guys that haven't worked with one another and become unsure of themselves.

I presume, but do not know, that there is a hierarchy among the officials as to who has greater responsibility for a call. Is it usual for a head linesman, watching that the q.b. does not cross the line of scrimmage and then throw the ball, and also presumably responsible for watching that offensive linemen do not get downfield before a pass is thrown, to make a call, or to over rule a call made in the defensive backfield?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I am not a Lion fan, but I live in Michigan. Does anyone think I can get some money from this law suit? How much money are we talking? Is it a lock that we win and I should book my vacation now? Maybe i should edit the first part of my post, will that disqualify me from my portion of the decision?

Any lawyers that could answer my question? TIA

Treble punitive damages are a lock under the circumstances, so you should go ahead and book the vacation now. Make it Arizona on Feb. 1, as I expect the US Supreme Court to jump past the formalities and award the NFC crown to the Lions in redress for this outrage.

 

[MattFancy]

Can someone clear something up for me?

- I was told that some or all instant replay reviews now get coordinated directly with the ref oversight team in the league office - is that true?

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/03/26/nfl-officiating-replay

Is this necessarily a good thing, I mean the league having a direct line to refs in-game?

Yes, all reviews are reviewed in NY as well as at the games and the VP of Officiating goes over the call with the ref when he is under the hood.

Definitely seems a little strange, but believe MLB/NHL and possibly NBA have the same type of thing where the league office is reviewing the plays. But, I don't think we've seen pics of the VP of Officiating from those leagues partying with an owner either.