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Did we stop remembering 9/11 in here? (1 Viewer)

General Malaise said:
NCCommish said:
timschochet said:
Tony Jabroni said:
General Malaise said:
timschochet said:
Pearl Harbor changed every aspect of American life, culture, and society. 9/11 did not, though it could have.

Just like Pearl Harbor, in the week after 9/11 nearly every American was energized and motivated. We all wanted to do SOMETHING- we were willing to make sacrifices. The President could have proposed anything at that point- for instance a Manhattan project like effort to get us off oil- and we would have gone along with it. We would have gone along with anything. No President since FDR had that much power, and it could be argued that Bush had more power because of the greater resources available to him. He had the entire nation behind him.

But for better or worse, President Bush told us to go on with our lives. He'd take care of things with the existing military forces; the rest of us should just continue working, playing, spending, doing all the things we did before 9/11. No sacrifice was asked for. Except for a few security changes, society really wasn't affected in noticeable ways.
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Well, you see, Timmy...back then, there was a little thing called WWII going on in the world. Kinda didn't have that this go around. But neat little observation, Captain Clueless.
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Yeah. I wasn't going to comment. Only Timmay would muck up a thread like this.
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:kicksrock: Wasn't trying to muck anything up. I was only making an observation which I've thought about for quite some time. I don't think it's especially controversial. Carry on.
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Although I am a big fan of GM and Tony I have to agree with Tim here. The reality is W could've motivated the American populace to do just about anything. Instead he told us to go shopping. Tim is hardly the first to comment on this and it's silly to dismiss it out of hand because it's pretty true.
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I would argue that his pleas to go out and support America by shopping and living our lives normally was a large measure in preventing a market crash and lead to a 4th quarter rally that prevented an economic disaster. The day of 9/11, the Futures Market was in free fall. Markets closed for a week to regroup and when they opened, they were bright red with panic sellers outnumbering everybody. By the end of the year, the markets had stabilized.

We were absolutely terrified as a country after this. Most of us weren't alive in 1941 and can't fathom what it was like to be attacked by another country as we were at Pearl Harbor. But 9/11 was even scarier than that - this wasn't a country attacking us. It was rogue terrorists who took over commercial airlines with box cutters and used the planes as weapons to bring down the two biggest buildings in America. That could have been any of us on those planes or in those buildings. That's a hell of a thing to wrap your head around and I think Bush deserves credit for giving us reassurance that this wouldn't happen again (and knock on wood, it hasn't).

And again, what did you want Bush to do? End our dependence on oil? Not every barrel of oil comes from a terrorist. And let me ask you this - do you drive an electric car? Do you Tim? If you do, props to you, but I don't. How do you convince an entire country to give up their gas guzzling cars for more expensive electric cars? Especially when every person in your administration, political party and family are tied deeply into oil.

I just don't understand what you wanted Bush to do differently. This wasn't an attack by a country we could go after and I do think he f'd up big time by lying to get us into Iraq and have my reservations about our war in Afghanistan. But look....at the end of the day, Bin Laden is dead. Most of his higher ups are dead. Hussein is dead. We haven't had a domestic terrorist attack on our home turf since (though I suppose you can count the Boston Marathon bombings). We haven't had a commercial airline hijacked since 9/11. An electric car is easier to buy today than it was on 9/11, and cheaper too. Solar panels and wind farms aren't perfect, but I can opt into them if I want to spend more money on my electric bill (I don't and I have no objection to hydro power). We've green-lighted a nuclear plant for the first time since 3 Mile Island.

I'm not attacking Tim for his commentary, but I do think his timing is bad. I also think it's a bit misguided. And let the record show that I hate George Bush more than I hate any other past president. I hate him when he ran the Rangers. I was very vocal in my hatred for him. But give the guy a break here. He made us feel better, safer and more patriotic in the aftermath and we needed that. He was a good leader during this crisis. Criticizing him for not ending dependence on foreign oil is just.....dumb. IMO.
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Come on GM. W not only did nothing with a nation that wanted to do something he went out and blew every bit of public support we had worldwide with the stupid misadventure in Iraq. Because he wanted to be the War President.

 
Just watching a show on the Military Channel with the 9/11 tapes of faa and military. Wow. I never realized how clueless the FAA and Military was during the entire process. They had no idea what was going on the entire time, literally getting information from the news on TV. Even after the third plane hit The Pentagon, they still couldn't find the other plane. The terrorists could have hit as many targets as they wanted. The military couldn't even get jets to Washington very fast. The FAX had minima like interaction with the military. Even after the fighter jets got there, they had no authorization to shoot down any planes. Crazy stuff

 
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flapgreen said:
Just watching a show on the Military Channel with the 9/11 tapes of faa and military. Wow. I never realized how clueless the FAA and Military was during the entire process. They had no idea what was going on the entire time, literally getting information from the news on TV. Even after the third plane hit The Pentagon, they still couldn't find the other plane. The terrorists could have hit as many targets as they wanted. The military couldn't even get jets to Washington very fast. The FAX had minima like interaction with the military. Even after the fighter jets got there, they had no authorization to shoot down any planes. Crazy stuff
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An interesting film is "United 93", in which many of the military and FAA people who were there portray themselves. Including Ben Sliney, who was the FAA operations manager in charge (on his first day on the job, having been recently promoted to the position).

 
Can't believe it's been 13 years. I still think about this all the time. Such unimaginable devastation. :(

I hope the folks who lost loved ones have found some semblance of normalcy and peace.

 
Not a day go by without a reminder - nay, multiple reminders. It's Long Island (a lot of policemen, firemen, commuters to Wall Street), so it does hit home. Stickers on cars / windows, remember and never forget decals, and signs on police stations, fire houses etc.

 
"9/10: The Final Hours" is on the National Geographic channel right now. Being replayed at 11:00.

I thought I saw all the 9/11 programming there was, but this one is new to me.

 
Koya said:
Not a day go by without a reminder - nay, multiple reminders. It's Long Island (a lot of policemen, firemen, commuters to Wall Street), so it does hit home. Stickers on cars / windows, remember and never forget decals, and signs on police stations, fire houses etc.
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A kid I played softball with -- his older brother was working in one of the towers where the first plane hit. They think/hope he died instantly, due to the location of his office being near the strike zone. Just unthinkable terribleness.

 
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Raider Nation said:
Can't believe it's been 13 years. I still think about this all the time. Such unimaginable devastation. :(

I hope the folks who lost loved ones have found some semblance of normalcy and peace.
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Around here we are more often reminded of the aftermath.

 
Raider Nation said:
"9/10: The Final Hours" is on the National Geographic channel right now. Being replayed at 11:00.

I thought I saw all the 9/11 programming there was, but this one is new to me.
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Is that the one filmed by the French film crew who happened to be embedded with a fire station literally in the shadow of the Twin Towers?

 
Raider Nation said:
T Bell said:
Raider Nation said:
"9/10: The Final Hours" is on the National Geographic channel right now. Being replayed at 11:00.

I thought I saw all the 9/11 programming there was, but this one is new to me.
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Is that the one filmed by the French film crew who happened to be embedded with a fire station literally in the shadow of the Twin Towers?
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Not sure. I didn't see it from the start.
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There's one done by a French film crew - they at one point were inside the towers with the firefighters. They had footage in the lobby and you hear crashing/thudding noises in the background, and someone realizes and says aloud that those are bodies hitting the atrium because people are jumping. Haunting as ####.

 
Raider Nation said:
Koya said:
Not a day go by without a reminder - nay, multiple reminders. It's Long Island (a lot of policemen, firemen, commuters to Wall Street), so it does hit home. Stickers on cars / windows, remember and never forget decals, and signs on police stations, fire houses etc.
Click to expand...
A kid I played softball with -- his older brother was working in one of the towers where the first plane hit. They think/hope he died instantly, due to the location of his office being near the strike zone. Just unthinkable terribleness.
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In my school district, there was a cul de sac... 8 houses I believe in all on the small court street. 5 fathers were lost that day (I may be slightly off, but you get the picture). That is all too familiar a refrain. It was such a concentrated population - wall street / financial folk and first responders, that many neighborhoods had no one directly touched while others were hit really hard. But all were affected and no one more than a step removed (and likely not even that) from being hit.

Personally, I was really fortunate. No one I knew directly (at least not well) lost their life. But I had a LOT of friends work in the area, some in the building, others who were going to meetings in the building. Stories (from friends), of dodging falling body parts and seeing bloodies bodies on the ground. I have others, first responders, who live every day knowing they may be diagnosed with cancer or some other illness (all the while it's difficult to get payments, all the while the gov't, at least as I understand it, minimalized the real dangers, not that it would have mattered to these guys)

 
T Bell said:
Raider Nation said:
T Bell said:
Raider Nation said:
"9/10: The Final Hours" is on the National Geographic channel right now. Being replayed at 11:00.

I thought I saw all the 9/11 programming there was, but this one is new to me.
Click to expand...
Is that the one filmed by the French film crew who happened to be embedded with a fire station literally in the shadow of the Twin Towers?
Click to expand...
Not sure. I didn't see it from the start.
Click to expand...
There's one done by a French film crew - they at one point were inside the towers with the firefighters. They had footage in the lobby and you hear crashing/thudding noises in the background, and someone realizes and says aloud that those are bodies hitting the atrium because people are jumping. Haunting as ####.
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I heard about that.

 
Raider Nation said:
T Bell said:
Raider Nation said:
T Bell said:
Raider Nation said:
"9/10: The Final Hours" is on the National Geographic channel right now. Being replayed at 11:00.

I thought I saw all the 9/11 programming there was, but this one is new to me.
Click to expand...
Is that the one filmed by the French film crew who happened to be embedded with a fire station literally in the shadow of the Twin Towers?
Click to expand...
Not sure. I didn't see it from the start.
Click to expand...
There's one done by a French film crew - they at one point were inside the towers with the firefighters. They had footage in the lobby and you hear crashing/thudding noises in the background, and someone realizes and says aloud that those are bodies hitting the atrium because people are jumping. Haunting as ####.
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I heard about that.
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I'd forgotten I'd posted that. Crazy that I used the same words to describe it.

 
Did you guys see the "The 9/11 Surfer" on The Discovery Channel last week? Amazing story. That guy worked for the Port Authority, and when the tower he was in came down, he "rode the building" 15 stories down and survived. He broke both legs and ended up sitting on a small slab of concrete about 7 floors up. The firemen found him just before flames got to him.

 
My 5th grade daughter asked me last week, "What's nine-eleven? We were talking in school about disasters and one of the boys said that." So I told her as age appropriately as I could. She was amazed by my recounting of the day and how I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing when I first found out. She asked if she could research it online and I told her she might not like what she finds as far as images go. She pulled up the images of the Twin Towers on fire, the famous shot of the 2nd plane just about to hit the South Tower and the people fleeing the debris cloud right after collapse and I told her I remember it like it happened yesterday.

I always knew the conversations would get more difficult as my girls grew up. I guess it was just a matter of time before we were talking about 9/11.

 
Often, as I wait for the light at Herald Square, I look south down Sixth to the Freedom Tower. It's going to be a little tougher tomorrow.

Never forget.

 
Raider Nation said:
"9/10: The Final Hours" is on the National Geographic channel right now. Being replayed at 11:00.

I thought I saw all the 9/11 programming there was, but this one is new to me.
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Watching it now.

Good doc. Except I can't help but think.....

'you were a clerk at a comfort inn in Portland, Maine. Do you really need to be silhouetted?'

'Oh! And the same goes for you pizza slinger.'

 
Raider Nation said:
Can't believe it's been 13 years. I still think about this all the time. Such unimaginable devastation. :(I hope the folks who lost loved ones have found some semblance of normalcy and peace.
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My oldest kid was just 5 weeks old when it happened. I had also just started a job a few months earlier. I still remember that day - holding my boy and watching the coverage. It was surreal and a very sobering thought knowing that unthinkable evil existed out there and we wouldn't always be able to protect him.

My father is a retired fireman and they sold remembrance t-shirts in his county. I wore mine the other day just by chance and the kids asked me about it. It's still difficult to discuss and make sense of.

 
The Middle East is probably more unstable than it was then. We have just as many Islamic enemies who hate us more than ever. al-Qaeda has been largely destroyed (maybe) but ISIS is potentially just as dangerous. The Taliban had to flee Kabul but they haven't been eliminated, and the second we leave Afghanistan, they're a big threat to come back.

There are only two historical events in this country that compare to 9/11. After Fort Sumter, the North was united and the eventual result was the destruction of the Confederacy. After Pearl Harbor the entire nation was united and the eventual result was the defeat of Japan and Germany.

After 9/11, the entire nation was united and that eventual result has been...what? What have we accomplished?

 
Raider Nation said:
http://picload.org/image/cgwliod/9-12-201412-20-17am.jpg
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Ugh. One of my better friends back then -- and now -- worked at MCI (WorldCom?) and was right across from the Pentagon. I was down there, too, but in MD. I was moving back to the NE and had given notice. My landlord knocked on the door and woke me up to tell me what happened. We sat there and watched the television in disbelief. He was a WWII vet. We were just stunned. That picture you posted reminded me of frantically calling my friends that day, only to be told there was no service.

All of us in the NE had friends we were legitimately scared for and were calling that day, constantly hoping nobody had suffered the fate of what we saw on TV, unable to reach our friends in NY and DC because most services were shut down. Turns out a kid we had saved from a drunken snowbank endeavor in college had indeed died. He's still listed as "missing" in the section of our alumni mag. They never found him. One kid that joined our frat after I'd graduated actually escaped the buildings, and had run a bunch of miles to get away from the carnage. He was a casual long-distance runner, and described himself as just running from the carnage when it happened. He kept going.

Awful. :(

It was weird to work in DC at that time. Tanks lined the streets. People were upset and scared. We celebrated the MCI guy's birthday at a bar a few days later (the night of the candlelight vigil) and there were literally only twenty people out at one of the most popular bars in DC. Met a foreign policy expert who spoke off the record to me and said weird #### (no truther stuff, but obviously stuff he shouldn't have been discussing). It was a weird time, though nothing like for the victims in NY.

Enough of the personal memory. RIP.

 
timschochet said:
The Middle East is probably more unstable than it was then. We have just as many Islamic enemies who hate us more than ever. al-Qaeda has been largely destroyed (maybe) but ISIS is potentially just as dangerous. The Taliban had to flee Kabul but they haven't been eliminated, and the second we leave Afghanistan, they're a big threat to come back.

There are only two historical events in this country that compare to 9/11. After Fort Sumter, the North was united and the eventual result was the destruction of the Confederacy. After Pearl Harbor the entire nation was united and the eventual result was the defeat of Japan and Germany.

After 9/11, the entire nation was united and that eventual result has been...what? What have we accomplished?
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We had an actual enemy to defeat after those events, not an ideology.

 
Raider Nation said:
timschochet said:
Raider Nation said:
Can we have one day to admire the spirit and resiliency of our citizens, tim?
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Sure. How about tomorrow?
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Tomorrow you can resume being cynical and rebellious, yes.
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No, tomorrow is 9/11, and I won't offer any political opinion on this subject tomorrow. Today was 9/10, so I thought it was OK to express my frustration at our inability to resolve the issues that gave us that horrible day.

 
cstu said:
timschochet said:
The Middle East is probably more unstable than it was then. We have just as many Islamic enemies who hate us more than ever. al-Qaeda has been largely destroyed (maybe) but ISIS is potentially just as dangerous. The Taliban had to flee Kabul but they haven't been eliminated, and the second we leave Afghanistan, they're a big threat to come back.

There are only two historical events in this country that compare to 9/11. After Fort Sumter, the North was united and the eventual result was the destruction of the Confederacy. After Pearl Harbor the entire nation was united and the eventual result was the defeat of Japan and Germany.

After 9/11, the entire nation was united and that eventual result has been...what? What have we accomplished?
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We had an actual enemy to defeat after those events, not an ideology.
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We had an actual enemy to defeat after 9/11, just not an easily identifiable one.

 
butcher boy said:
Ari Fleischer has been live tweeting this morning about what it was like with the President on 9/11. He's lining up his tweets with the same time the events happened that morning. It's fascinating.

https://twitter.com/AriFleischer
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Wow

At 10:32, the Pres. reported an amazing phone call. POTUS was talking to the military aide while he (Bush) was on the phone with the VP
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A call came into the switchboard saying 'Angel is next,'" Bush said. 'Angel' was the codeword for Air Force One.
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Col. Tillman, upon hearing the news, posted an armed Air Force Security Officer at the base of the steps leading up to the cockpit of AFOne.
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Think about that. Aboard one of the most secure spots on earth, with nothing but trusted aides/Secret Service, the fear was an inside attack
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jamny said:
RIP Harry

Knew him from the neighborhood as a kid and went to HS with him and his twin brother.
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Seriously? Surreal.

Cantor Fitzgerald was one of our largest clients. I didn't know Harry but I sat in meetings with him. Other guys on the OPS team knew him and said he was a great guy.

 
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