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Dion Lewis (3 Viewers)

Anarchy99 said:
Can anyone think of a RB that missed half the season and then came back and did really well? I can't remember anyone. Now that I think of it, I can't even remember a RB that missed half a season and then came back, but my memory isn't that great.
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I don't really see the point of this exercise. The number of players that missed half a season and came back is going to be very small. The number of those guys that were actually starting caliber players is going to be even smaller.

 
I didn't expect that that there were many backs that came back from a serious injury in-season. My overall talking point was whether someone could come back mid season from an injury and produce at a high level. Clearly every case is different, but like many other injuries, Lewis may not start out the way he started last year.

 
chad in Indy said:
Well. The biggest argument I can think of is that the IR list with the designated to return option is only 4 years old, so there are very few players who have had this option.  Before that, teams would have just IR'd the player for the season.
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This is a very good point.

 
White's main weakness is he doesn't run the ball at that effectively. Is he Lewis? No, He's not Faulk, Woodhead, or Vereen either. I'm sure part of the reason Bedard thinks White is a liability is a couple of times he missed a block and Brady got pressured and hit. I'm still waiting for Foster to get a shot, and now that Gaffney is back in the fold some people will want to see what he could do as well. I guess I'm not really sure what Bedard expects or who he thinks they could get at a reasonable cost. Also not sure why Bedard thinks Foster is positively, absolutely not an option.

Bedard even mentioned what I did earlier. They only need someone to find a hole in the defense and run upfield (and into the end zone if close enough). In White's case, he is the beneficiary of other targets drawing the coverage and he seemingly is the leftover guy that's open. In Lewis' case, Lewis is more often the intended target as a mismatch, which is 180 degrees the opposite of White.

 
Anarchy99 said:
White's main weakness is he doesn't run the ball at that effectively. Is he Lewis? No, He's not Faulk, Woodhead, or Vereen either. I'm sure part of the reason Bedard thinks White is a liability is a couple of times he missed a block and Brady got pressured and hit. I'm still waiting for Foster to get a shot, and now that Gaffney is back in the fold some people will want to see what he could do as well. I guess I'm not really sure what Bedard expects or who he thinks they could get at a reasonable cost. Also not sure why Bedard thinks Foster is positively, absolutely not an option.

Bedard even mentioned what I did earlier. They only need someone to find a hole in the defense and run upfield (and into the end zone if close enough). In White's case, he is the beneficiary of other targets drawing the coverage and he seemingly is the leftover guy that's open. In Lewis' case, Lewis is more often the intended target as a mismatch, which is 180 degrees the opposite of White.
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Pretty easy to see what Bedard wants...another quality RB...right now he is uncomfortable with the position if Lewis can not make it back...I agree as well...I wish there was another threat at that position that isn't as one-dimensional as both Blount and White are...now being able to do something about it this far into the season is another story...

As for Foster he is a little perplexing...I don't really remember a player in his situation...a RB they are hardly using that doesn't contribute too much on special teams...that is not a common scenario in the BB era...maybe they feel he just isn't ready but like him enough that they don't want to take the chance of losing him by attempting to put him on the practice squad... 

 
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A player on the practice squad is not protected. Anyone on a practice squad can be signed by another team as long as he is added to the 53-man roster.

The RB situation in NE hasn't really changed in years. They have gone with defined rolls and specialists for the past decade. We have discussed that teams can usually decipher the play call based on the personnel in the game. I agree that they need someone that can wear many hats, but that hasn't happened in forever. The last time they made a move for a top back was for Dillon. Not sure who they could snag if they really wanted to go after someone. Jamal Charles seems like the typical target . . . older, coming off injury, wearing out his welcome on another franchise, and probably motivated to show that he still has gas in the tank.

 
BassNBrew said:
Starting him with confidence.
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Ha! Come visit the pool after a few years and some things don't change. 

In seriousness, I have Dion in multiple leagues.  I will wait to see him practice or have a game without practice before starting him.  

 
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I have Lewis stashed on the IR in two leagues.  Hoping my patience pays off.  Could really use a difference maker for the stretch run.

 
Dion Lewis - RB - Patriots


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6483/dion-lewis

The Boston Herald believes it's "certainly possible" Dion Lewis' (PUP, knee) return "isn't imminent."
Lewis was eligible to practice this week, but couldn't. The Patriots have a 21-day window to bring him back onto the practice field and many exercise that right for as long as possible before activating him. Lewis is only stash worthy in deeper leagues. James White will be the passing-down back indefinitely.

Source: Boston Herald
Oct 21 - 1:06 PM
 
 
 
 
 

 
gethugefast1 said:
Dion Lewis - RB - Patriots


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6483/dion-lewis

The Boston Herald believes it's "certainly possible" Dion Lewis' (PUP, knee) return "isn't imminent."
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Dion Lewis has previously played for the Eagles and the Colts and I believe he was released from both teams.   He had half a season of very good play at NE, but we cant overlook the fact that most of his career he has been nothing special.  Now he is trying to come back from a very serious injury and the Patriots have very little invested in Lewis.  If they add Lewis they have to make another roster change and cut someone.   

You add to that the fact that James White is playing extremely well right now and the team is on a roll.  I think there is a good chance that the Patriots decide to either leave Lewis on IR or wait until there is an injury.  Why mess with something that is working when there is little if any upside from White to Lewis?  Bottom line, I think there is a chance we dont see Lewis this year. 

 
CaptainJT said:
Dion Lewis has previously played for the Eagles and the Colts and I believe he was released from both teams.   He had half a season of very good play at NE, but we cant overlook the fact that most of his career he has been nothing special.  Now he is trying to come back from a very serious injury and the Patriots have very little invested in Lewis.  If they add Lewis they have to make another roster change and cut someone.   

You add to that the fact that James White is playing extremely well right now and the team is on a roll.  I think there is a good chance that the Patriots decide to either leave Lewis on IR or wait until there is an injury.  Why mess with something that is working when there is little if any upside from White to Lewis?  Bottom line, I think there is a chance we dont see Lewis this year. 
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I completely disagree with this assessment.

IMO the decision will be solely based on Lewis' health.  If he's ready to play he will.  If he's not he's not.

I don't see the Pats not activating a healthy Lewis. 

 
VaTerp said:
I completely disagree with this assessment.

IMO the decision will be solely based on Lewis' health.  If he's ready to play he will.  If he's not he's not.

I don't see the Pats not activating a healthy Lewis. 
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I think that Lewis's injury is severe enough that he may not return to what he was this season and there is the chance that he may reinjure his knee.  The safest play would be to get Lewis healthy and play White.  If White gets injured the Patriots can activate Lewis and move forward without missing a step.  In the meantime, just run White out and let Lewis get stronger and healthier.

 
CaptainJT said:
Dion Lewis has previously played for the Eagles and the Colts and I believe he was released from both teams.   He had half a season of very good play at NE, but we cant overlook the fact that most of his career he has been nothing special.  Now he is trying to come back from a very serious injury and the Patriots have very little invested in Lewis.  If they add Lewis they have to make another roster change and cut someone.   

You add to that the fact that James White is playing extremely well right now and the team is on a roll.  I think there is a good chance that the Patriots decide to either leave Lewis on IR or wait until there is an injury.  Why mess with something that is working when there is little if any upside from White to Lewis?  Bottom line, I think there is a chance we dont see Lewis this year. 
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FWIW, the Eagles were extremely high on Lewis out of college. They were just higher on Shady, Bryce Brown and Chris Polk.  Joe Banner drafted him, thought he was very good....to the point that when he left Philly in 2012 and went to CLE....he traded for Lewis.  

 
CaptainJT said:
I think that Lewis's injury is severe enough that he may not return to what he was this season and there is the chance that he may reinjure his knee.  The safest play would be to get Lewis healthy and play White.  If White gets injured the Patriots can activate Lewis and move forward without missing a step.  In the meantime, just run White out and let Lewis get stronger and healthier.
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I don't even think that it's debatable that the Pats would much rather have Lewis playing than White. Either Lewis is healthy or he's not. I don't envision a situation where they hold Lewis out if he is healthy enough to play. As soon as he can suit up, White will be back on the bench.

 
Thunderlips said:
FWIW, the Eagles were extremely high on Lewis out of college. They were just higher on Shady, Bryce Brown and Chris Polk.  Joe Banner drafted him, thought he was very good....to the point that when he left Philly in 2012 and went to CLE....he traded for Lewis.  
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Thanks for some of the details. I was unaware that Cleveland traded for Lewis.

 
Anarchy99 said:
I don't even think that it's debatable that the Pats would much rather have Lewis playing than White. Either Lewis is healthy or he's not. I don't envision a situation where they hold Lewis out if he is healthy enough to play. As soon as he can suit up, White will be back on the bench.
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I guess this is where we disagree.  In my opinion White is playing very well, and very close to the level Lewis was at last year.   My personal view is that there would not be a noticable step up in talent or production with Lewis... and if there is not a huge difference between the 2 players, then there isnt a reason to mess with what is working.

 
Starting to think I should drop Lewis for guys who are actually playing instead of hanging on to a FF playoff lottery ticket that won't be worth anything.

 
CaptainJT said:
I guess this is where we disagree.  In my opinion White is playing very well, and very close to the level Lewis was at last year.   My personal view is that there would not be a noticable step up in talent or production with Lewis... and if there is not a huge difference between the 2 players, then there isnt a reason to mess with what is working.
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I am assuming you are a White owner who wants him to keep his role, but there is a huge difference. Lewis averaged about 1.5 yards more per rush and per reception more than White so he was far more productive per touch. Lewis also averaged almost 90 yards a game compared to White's 50 yards per game this year so he was much more of an impact overall. 

If Lewis is healthy, he'll play over White. There is no saving him for next year for a lesser player  at Brady's age.

 
CaptainJT said:
I guess this is where we disagree.  In my opinion White is playing very well, and very close to the level Lewis was at last year.   My personal view is that there would not be a noticable step up in talent or production with Lewis... and if there is not a huge difference between the 2 players, then there isnt a reason to mess with what is working.
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White is an OK player...Lewis is electric...it's not too close either...I posted this earlier but it is worth repeating:

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/greg-bedard-thinks-james-white-hurts-new-england-patriots-need-dion-lewis-or-trade

 
CaptainJT said:
I guess this is where we disagree.  In my opinion White is playing very well, and very close to the level Lewis was at last year.   My personal view is that there would not be a noticable step up in talent or production with Lewis... and if there is not a huge difference between the 2 players, then there isnt a reason to mess with what is working.
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I own Lewis and am holding out hope. That said, this makes complete sense to me. And maybe it's not white keeping all of the role, but Lewis and white splitting more evenly than last year. The patriots are winning, and have momentum after all. Why change much?

 
Boston said:
White is an OK player...Lewis is electric...it's not too close either...I posted this earlier but it is worth repeating:

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/greg-bedard-thinks-james-white-hurts-new-england-patriots-need-dion-lewis-or-trade
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I tend to agree, the RB that will stay in will be the one that can be a dual threat (to conceal intention - esp in no-huddle) but also won't get Brady killed with missed assignments.

Dion Lewis is that guy, they were 7-0 with him because he was one of their top playmakers on offense.  Some of the runs were simply electrifying.  This is one of those things where the stat line doesn't tell the whole story, and White owners should be handcuffing with Dion wherever possible.

 
stbugs said:
I am assuming you are a White owner who wants him to keep his role, but there is a huge difference. Lewis averaged about 1.5 yards more per rush and per reception more than White so he was far more productive per touch. Lewis also averaged almost 90 yards a game compared to White's 50 yards per game this year so he was much more of an impact overall. 

If Lewis is healthy, he'll play over White. There is no saving him for next year for a lesser player  at Brady's age.
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Good points.  But you have to remember White has played only 2 games with Brady and about the same with a healthy Gronk.  The defense had no one to fear from the New England offense.  White has played most of his games with Garapolo and Brissett.  All 7 games Lewis played last year were with a healthy Brady and Gronkowski.  The defenses had to double Gronk and provide help shading towards Edelman.  That left Lewis to work with plenty of space with one of the best short yardage passers in NFL history.  

It is tough to compare the 2 when the situation last year is so differnt thant the first 4 games this year. (This season White also had the entire preseason to work with the first team offense and Brady).  To be honest, it wouldnt surprise me if Belichick hasnt even told Josh McDaniels what he plans to do with Lewis this year...

 
2ksports said:
I tend to agree, the RB that will stay in will be the one that can be a dual threat (to conceal intention - esp in no-huddle) but also won't get Brady killed with missed assignments.

Dion Lewis is that guy, they were 7-0 with him because he was one of their top playmakers on offense.  Some of the runs were simply electrifying.  This is one of those things where the stat line doesn't tell the whole story, and White owners should be handcuffing with Dion wherever possible.
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I have never quite understood why BB who almost always values diversity in his players sometimes goes with a non-dual threat RB (especially one that is just OK)...especially with an offense who's strength is the the ability to do anything...BJGE used to bug me...not a bad RB but you knew he wasn't catching the ball and I always felt that made things easier for the defense...Blount and White both fall into that one-dimensional category as well...they both can contribute but because they are pretty one-dimensional it is one less thing for the D to worry about it...RB's like Faulk and Vereen in the last Super Bowl both had more diversity in their game and I feel that made a big difference...(like you point out) the thing Lewis also brings which they have never had under BB is the home run threat...he has the ability to take every play the distance...when you add that to their other weapons you have an offense that is beyond difficult to defend...if they have a healthy Lewis in the playoffs it could be a difference-maker...last year during the Denver loss White just wasn't capable of making those plays...     

 
CaptainJT said:
Good points.  But you have to remember White has played only 2 games with Brady and about the same with a healthy Gronk.  The defense had no one to fear from the New England offense.  White has played most of his games with Garapolo and Brissett.  All 7 games Lewis played last year were with a healthy Brady and Gronkowski.  The defenses had to double Gronk and provide help shading towards Edelman.  That left Lewis to work with plenty of space with one of the best short yardage passers in NFL history.  

It is tough to compare the 2 when the situation last year is so differnt thant the first 4 games this year. (This season White also had the entire preseason to work with the first team offense and Brady).  To be honest, it wouldnt surprise me if Belichick hasnt even told Josh McDaniels what he plans to do with Lewis this year...
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No reason to focus on this year's production when White played for New England last year too. Under the same circumstances Lewis averaged 2.3 yards per carry and 0.5 yards per reception more than White. 

 
Now that he is off the PUP doesn't New England have to make a decision to put Lewis on the active roster or season ending IR in the next 3-4 weeks?

 
Chaka said:
Now that he is off the PUP doesn't New England have to make a decision to put Lewis on the active roster or season ending IR in the next 3-4 weeks?
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Not off the PUP yet. I believe they changed the rules that teams have until Week 12 to take a player off the PUP list  and still have three weeks to activate him. So Lewis theoretically could be active for Week 15. 

 
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Anarchy99 said:
Not off the PUP yet. I believe they changed the rules that teams have until Week 12 to take a player off the PUP list  and still have three weeks to activate him. So Lewis theoretically could be active for Week 15. 
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Really? First I've heard of it, thought 6 weeks was still the rule for PUP.

 
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Chaka said:
Really? First I've heard of it, thought 6 weeks was still the rule for PUP.
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I believe the rule is that the player must come off PUP after 6 weeks.  Then, they have a 5 week window in which they need to start practicing.  Once they start practicing, there is a 3 week window within which the team must activate the player to the 53 man roster.  

So he's off, I think.  But he hasn't started practicing.  And once he does start it could be 3 weeks before they activate him.  So it is possible that Dion does not play until week 15.  

I kept Dion in a keep-3 league because he was such a late pick that his potential pay off was too good to pass up. But I did so with the understanding that I might not get to use him this year.  Though, I had been hoping all along that this was just a clean-up as initially reported, and the PUP had something to do with Brady's suspension allowing them an extra roster spot.  

 
Thoughts on ROS PPR assuming he returns to practice without further incident?

Wondering if I should roll dice and drop Duke Johnson for Lewis?

 
Lewis should not be rushed back, but make no mistake that Lewis is a significant upgrade over White for the sole reason that when White is in the game, the defense can cheat towards a pass while with Lewis the D must play the run more honestly.  Maybe against 80% of the teams this ultimately does not matter, but against a playoff D like Denver, Seattle or Minnesota, this will matter greatly.  It mattered in the AFCCG last year when without both Lewis and Blount, Denver had zero worries about playing the run.

 
Speaking of which - has anyone bought recently?  Mostly asking for dynasty leagues, but... are guys valuing him as what he was, or expecting a huge discount?

 
so if he practices they need to activate within 21 days, so that points to most likely a week10 start after the bye as the most likely or possibly week 11 if they bring him along slowly.

 
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