Coach Morris Buttermaker
Footballguy
I'm guessing Kamala would score 45-50% approval on this board. Pelosi might even get 30% here!
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Do you approve or disapprove of the way Joe Biden is handling his job as president? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
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MAC_32
Footballguy
I long ago accepted my opinion is the minority but one's feelings of a president's job performance should not matter and a good answer can't exist when the question is binary. That said, pick a side and one's feelings are an engaging subject. Fruitful discourse cannot happen when you're asking responders to put themselves in boxes in an already toxic environment, but in our society we value engagement more than productivity so this is exactly the sort of ineffective format we (un?)intentionally covet.
Thanks. But I disagree. I think fruitful discussion can happen over the topic of how one thinks the president is doing. I think we've seen it here. I think we've seen that not every environment has to be toxic. And more to the point, when people try, even a little, environments that have the potential to be toxic can be less so. At least that's my premise for this forum. And how we have a productive forum. Whether we're able to do that or not is mostly up to you folks.
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Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
Of how she is handling her job as vice-president? I think that's a bit too high. While I voted "approve" on Biden, I believe I'd vote "disapprove" on Harris. Happy to cast a vote should a poll arise. I'm unsure where my opinion lies on Pelosi without giving it extensive thought.
MAC_32
Footballguy
It may be semantics, but in the world of politics words alone can't express how massive of a difference there is between one's feelings and their thoughts.
Shutout
Footballguy
Which should be extremely concerning for Democrats, due in no small part to the fractured pocketing of separation in how questions are decompartmentalized and the population of density of democratic voting sects. Toss in the margin of error and it puts the numbers (about 42% currently) and we are at a number where the last time it was at this point, the party lost 40+ seats in the midterms.
It's interesting to have a poll like this. We should consider the demographic density of where those voting are coming from to help paint the overall picture. I'm not saying this is the answer, but I can say during the past 6-7 months I have been ALL over the United States and every single day, everywhere I am, I see a LOT of people talking about how bad normal people and families are struggling and it's pretty clear in that view that approval is low.
Shutout
Footballguy
The problem here is that you are basing your conclusion on record and the other side with the other opinion is basing it not on Bidens record to determine approval, but the fear of what they perceive the alternative is.
The General
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
Jimmy Carter has lived long enough to die knowing he was not the worst president in United States history.
We have to be realistic here if we are able to be honest with ourselves. The people who say they don't approve cite a lot of very particular issues that are right there to be seen.
The people who say they do approve say, at best, tend to agree with some of the things the disapprovers say but then pull back on mainly inflation (stating it's out of Bidens control) and the handling of the Ukraine situation.
The current administration absolutely has control to combat inflation. It's a known formula. You can't print and manufacture money with no backing (and several other things) and not experience inflation. We know this.
In regards to Ukraine, two things are happening. There is credit being given to Biden that belongs to Putin. Putin is the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" factor who has galvanized the other world powers, not anything Biden or his VP has done to meet and rally and instill confidence in other world leaders. Putin's straw stirred this drink. Secondly, there is this presentation that Biden is "handling it well". But these people don't take it out a step further and aknowledge that this is a reactionary step being taken and that during the previous four years, there were no wars or scenarios to have to react to and THAT is the glaring shortcomings in that the job done by this administration did not plan or proactively lead to PREVENT the activities being somewhat praised. That should be considered.
We have to be realistic here if we are able to be honest with ourselves. The people who say they don't approve cite a lot of very particular issues that are right there to be seen.
The people who say they do approve say, at best, tend to agree with some of the things the disapprovers say but then pull back on mainly inflation (stating it's out of Bidens control) and the handling of the Ukraine situation.
The current administration absolutely has control to combat inflation. It's a known formula. You can't print and manufacture money with no backing (and several other things) and not experience inflation. We know this.
In regards to Ukraine, two things are happening. There is credit being given to Biden that belongs to Putin. Putin is the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" factor who has galvanized the other world powers, not anything Biden or his VP has done to meet and rally and instill confidence in other world leaders. Putin's straw stirred this drink. Secondly, there is this presentation that Biden is "handling it well". But these people don't take it out a step further and aknowledge that this is a reactionary step being taken and that during the previous four years, there were no wars or scenarios to have to react to and THAT is the glaring shortcomings in that the job done by this administration did not plan or proactively lead to PREVENT the activities being somewhat praised. That should be considered.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Shutout said:
that's the thing - the alternative was Trump and mean tweets and childish name calling .... but we didn't have record gas, record covid deaths, record inflation, record illegals, Russia invading other countries ......... none of that happened with Trump years, we know that 100% for a fact.
people can pretend it'd have been worse with Trump - but that's guesstimations and again, no Biden vote in their wildest estimations of a second Trump Presidency would have guess things in 18 months would be as bad as they are ... with TRUMP President
they have their Biden and its this bad - nobody can vote Biden doing a good job honestly IMO unless a bad job is nuclear war and global depression
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
Yup, mean tweets and childish name-calling are the only bad things that happened during the Trump presidency. Can't think of any other missteps.
The General
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I didn't say that
But we're far, far worse off now than 18 months ago ... that's 100% undeniable fact
which brings me back to the question - just how bad does it have to get before Biden voters admit this was a disaster electing him? nuclear war? global depression? mass energy/food shortages ?
I mean we're so far worse than anyone would have predicted and STILL he's being rated as doing good ?
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
This statement flies the face of the understanding that humans are not perfect and we all make mistakes, presidents included. If one (fairly substantial) mistake is all it takes to qualify as having a failed presidential term then every presidential term through our history can be claimed to have been a failure. No need to pick sides, it's all of them. Using your logic I can say this with complete confidence because there have been exactly zero presidential terms with zero mistakes made. None of them have a perfect record of decisions made during their term.
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
I deny that we're far, far worse off now than 18 months ago.
I hope one day you can acknowledge the difference between subjective opinions and objective facts.
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I deny this. Rather emphatically.
18 months ago Covid-19 was ravaging this country. Most of the shopping centers I managed were shuttered. Las Vegas was closed down. The entire state of Hawaii was closed down (someone I know there has offered me an image I will never forget: a sea of rental cars on Maui, covering many square miles, all unused for months.) I knew restauranteurs, nail salons, massage, hair salons who either went out of business or went to the very edge. And of course, all of the deaths.
Biden stopped all of that. After Trump’s mishandling and sheer incompetence, Biden rescued our economy with his stimulus, by stressing mask wearing, and by making the vaccines quickly available to all Americans. What he could not foresee, what nobody could foresee, is that so many people would refuse to wear masks and refuse to take vaccines. That caused so much unnecessary heartaches and more deaths and set things back. Who knew that people would be so stubborn for political and (frankly) ignorant, anti-science reasons? Most of us couldn’t have guessed.
Even so, we are far far far better off than we were. Not even a question.
supermike80
Footballguy
So your ONLY qualifier is covid? Which literally had nothing to do with Biden? Right..Good measuring stick
timschochet
Footballguy
No. I was replying to the statement that we are far worse off and that it’s “100% undeniable.” I deny it.
And I also give Biden far more credit for dealing with Covid than you and many others do. I think history will as well.
The General
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
All of that was shut down BY Democrats ... and for 40-60,000 dead people
and as the numbers climbed to 100,000, 300,000, 500,000, 700,000 ..... all the way until today's numbers of 981,000 dead ....... as the numbers climbed everything opened more and more IN SPITE OF THE DEATHS
and I remind you - Biden has more deaths in his term than Trump did - that's a fact, and remember what Joe said " 220,000 Americans dead. If you hear nothing else I say tonight, hear this. Anyone who's responsible for not taking control — in fact, not saying, I take no responsibility, initially — anyone who is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as President of the United States of America"
There was no rescue - there was response to a catastrophe in the shutdowns that were planned and executed with everyone full well knowing what the expense would be.
C'mon man, who are you trying to kid here?
If you think we're better off with more dead people, record inflation, record gas prices, record illegals coming across the border, war in Russia/Ukraine, North Korea testing nuclear, increased crime ....... I mean if that's far, far better .... then again I ask a simple question - what would have to happen for things to be WORSE ??
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
I agree - the debacle in doing it was a black eye to the nation and the world saw it as a weakness but he DID get us out
Manster
Footballguy
Ok sure, but demographically, this forum seems to attract more left leaning folks.....why is that?
In my experience, even living in liberal western OR, this forum is further left leaning than what I see on a day-to-day.
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timschochet
Footballguy
I disagree with everything you wrote here except- record number of illegals? Are you sure about that? If so that’s a great thing.
The more illegal immigrants that come here, the better off our economy is, and the better off we are. As a whole our society benefits from increased immigration, including and especially illegal immigration. So that makes me very happy if it’s true.
timschochet
Footballguy
We’ve discussed this many times and I still have no idea whether or not this forum is more left or right.
But my very firm impression is that, since 2021, more right wingers post here than left wingers. So even if you’re correct and the right wingers are a minority, they are louder and post more often. At least that’s how it seems to me, I have no numbers to back it up. I offer as proof the fact that I’m pretty liberal, I post a lot, and those who express disagreement with me outnumber those who agree with me.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
you disagree? ok answer me this
who has more covid deaths on their watch - Biden or Trump?
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
Hey @Stealthycat why is there always, and I mean always, so much dead space in your posts after your last sentence/question?
On a scale of 1 (barely) to 10 (couldn't possibly believe it any more strongly) how strongly do you believe the bolded?
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
I'm not sure - is that consistent? I'm not adding lines or anything ???? maybe if I edit a post it does it?
the moops
Footballguy
Stop with this. We can all look at the numbers.
Just come out and say what you want to say
I see the blank space too on just your other posts. Not any other posters. Weird. Not sure why. But on this post, there wasn't any.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Biden has more deaths on his watch - that's a fact. Biden has vaccines that Trump didn't. Biden and Democrats hammered on Trump and covid response/deaths .......and in the 18 months after taking office, Biden has more deaths than anyone could ever have imagined.
If Biden "stopped all of that" .......... where is the success? Number of deaths? Number of infections? There were months going by without test kits, with deaths soaring, and not a Democrat a one called for again doing shutdowns (you know, the one that killed the economy Biden is now being given credit for saving?)
its been 18-24 short months - I'm not forgetting how it all went, I'm surprised others are
The General
Footballguy
If we remained locked down and therefore had lower deaths is that considered a win in this death toll stat you are keeping?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Well me? I wouldn't blame Trump or Biden for a virus. Responses maybe, but not a virus and not how people choose to live their lives. But since we DID blame Trump (and I point to Democrats and what Biden said) then in turn we'll also blame Joe in the same way and the bottom line is death numbers and infections. We can talk about vaccines available, testing etc too and how all that got messed up but Fed Govt doesn't ever do anything much right so that's just what that is.
If we had remained locked down IMO we'd have had similar deaths. its a virus, it was going to spread everywhere anyway.
The General
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I kinda have to - I spent 4 years watching all the blame on Trump .... I understand better now that a POTUS gets all the blame with rare rare exception.
Biden is going to get all the blame equally and fairly like Trump did. But Biden is a horrible POTUS, the numbers show it and only magic in the next 2 years can save him from going down as the worst President ever for economy/debt/inflation/illegals etc
Its far, far worse than any Biden voter imagined.
The General
Footballguy
You are saying you don’t want to assign blame unfairly but you are doing so out of duty?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
yessir !! I figure what's good for the goose is good for the gander don't you ?
but more like I now understand everything is blamed on the President - Democrats taught me that with Trump.
Alyssa Milano is not correct - you don't get to be hateful and mean for 4 years without it being remembered
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
When I read these posts they come across as being vindictive, childish and immature.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I'm simply gauging Biden the SAME WAY .... his mental health, what he says, how this nation is running under him etc etc
Do you want me to treat Biden differently ?
I don't think that's a fair description of the posts you quoted. They are critical. But he explains his point and why. I don't necessarily agree with him. But the quotes are not vindictive, childish or immature here in my opinion.
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The General
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Eh. Pretty indifferent. He's better than Trump, but that's a pretty low bar.
We'll just disagree then.
He wrote:
I don't agree with him. But that's pretty tame criticism. Calling that childish or immature seems awfully unfair to me.
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