Does Favre still get credit (1 Viewer)

[Beergogglz]

LOL! How did I know these comments were going to come from Bearsgogglz & creamoftheVikes?So you 2 are saying that 1 game defines a 13 year stellar career by a QB? You guys have even less acumen than I thought - and even I didn't think that was possible.

Not at all. I'm saying that the game yesterday was a perfect illustration of my earlier point: Favre's mistakes the past few years more than balance his singlehanded efforts that win games. No more, no less.And by the way, I'm not a Bears fan. Just an NFL fan in general.

 

[Beergogglz]

Hold on now PK, let's not go down the "not Farve's fault it was the refs". The facts are that he throws a TON of INT in the redzone which speaks volumns about his play. This game they were down 4 pts and he threw an INT. They were then down by 11 and had plenty of time to pull out a win (or tie) and again threw a terrible pass for another INT. Finally, his almost TD to DD was a terrible decision, one that an experienced QB should never make.Don't blame the Refs now, this was a game that they were favored and Farve had many shots to win but didn't.

Actually, the 3rd pick was a great throw to DD (albeit into double coverage), but the safety made a great play to take it away. I can't fault Favre for that one.

 

[Beergogglz]

Few QBs can seemingly cost you the game then march em' right back and almost win it. For me, the negatives+positives ALMOST cancel each other out there. Yep he cost em'. Big deal, he's won enough for them. Also, point of this thread, they scored 8 points in like a minute. Tell me any playoff opponent isn't frightenned by that happening to them? He throws it so hard so on the numbers he's one of few QBs that I don't mind hearing the announcers say "he'd have caught it anyway, it would have stuck to his chest" or whatever. It really just shoots right in there so fast. TV and slo mo and all prolly take away from this but that is a fast fast ball and extremely hard to defend.

Yet another example of the, "Well, he's done good stuff in the past, so it's ok to ignore his mistakes now" mentality....

 

[packersfan]

Now, the refs sure did their damnedest to help GB along, what with picking up that flag after Bratt pegged the ref with the ball (only after he batted his eyelashes at them, though), and then that horse#### pass interference call immediately thereafter. 

And you call the Packer fans in this thread biased. :rotflmao: But yup, Favre's 2 INTs were huge plays in the game -- especially the one in the Red Zone. That was an absolute killer and a huge turning point in the game. No doubt about it.

And this hits home what some of us were saying before. Why Farve acts shocked when he threw that terrible INT in the redzone is beyond me..he has done that plenty of times before.

Not this season. Coming into today, Favre had thrown just 1 INT inside the 10-yard line. Oh, that info came courtesy of the link you provided, so thanks for that. Also, that INT was his first in 161 pass attempts at Lambeau this season, so he clearly hasn't been throwing many INTs lately at home. And I notice you still are unable to prove he "loses more games than he wins."

Question:Who has the second most INT in the redzone since 1991?

You continue to deflect the more pertinent question, but it's become more than obvious you can't prove the point you continue to try and make. I'm all for an unbiased discussion about Favre or any player, but honestly you've made one point time after time after time and haven't been able to provide a shred of evidence to support it. Meanwhile, myself and others have provided mountains of evidence to back up our point of view.If you want to talk about Favre then bring something to the table that actually attempts to support your position. Until you do that, I'm out. Have a Happy Holidays.

 

[Bri]

Few QBs can seemingly cost you the game then march em' right back and almost win it. For me, the negatives+positives ALMOST cancel each other out there. Yep he cost em'. Big deal, he's won enough for them. Also, point of this thread, they scored 8 points in like a minute. Tell me any playoff opponent isn't frightenned by that happening to them? He throws it so hard so on the numbers he's one of few QBs that I don't mind hearing the announcers say "he'd have caught it anyway, it would have stuck to his chest" or whatever. It really just shoots right in there so fast. TV and slo mo and all prolly take away from this but that is a fast fast ball and extremely hard to defend.

Yet another example of the, "Well, he's done good stuff in the past, so it's ok to ignore his mistakes now" mentality....

I wrote "yep he cost em'" how did I ignore it?

 

[Bri]

Looks to me like the Favre backers have stepped up and admitted Favre blew the game today. With luck like that you should go to Vegas, oh thats right your to young to drive. Say whatever you want kid, it doesn't change the fact that Favre has been a great QB throughout his career and will be a first ballot HOF'er. Todays loss lowers Favre's late-season record to what 25-3 now? I'm still waiting for the proof that Favre has lost more games than he has won, you don't seem to want to answer that one. Where are your facts TheClearlyCreamed.

When has Farve been GREAT more times than not in big time games? Start with career postseason games and don't post records against the likes of Chicago / Detroit etc. Speaking of Chicago and TEN, tow bottom feeders, where was Farve in those games as well vs those GREAT teams? I've answered it DeCheater

you accidentally wrote TEN, one of the best teams of the last decade W-L wise

 

[Beergogglz]

Few QBs can seemingly cost you the game then march em' right back and almost win it. For me, the negatives+positives ALMOST cancel each other out there. Yep he cost em'. Big deal, he's won enough for them. Also, point of this thread, they scored 8 points in like a minute. Tell me any playoff opponent isn't frightenned by that happening to them? He throws it so hard so on the numbers he's one of few QBs that I don't mind hearing the announcers say "he'd have caught it anyway, it would have stuck to his chest" or whatever. It really just shoots right in there so fast. TV and slo mo and all prolly take away from this but that is a fast fast ball and extremely hard to defend.

Yet another example of the, "Well, he's done good stuff in the past, so it's ok to ignore his mistakes now" mentality....

I wrote "yep he cost em'" how did I ignore it?

...because then, in the same breath, you added "Big deal, he's won enough for them." You don't see how that is, in effect, minimizing/explaining away his mistakes? Yeesh.

 

[Bri]

minimize sure but not ignoring....I guess I see your point.Have you ever been a boss? For me, I remember the hard work and praise it. I do believe people are human and make mistakes and that doesn't cancel out the good an employee has done for me. They appreciate it and I feel that grants them a quicker ability to get right back to doing good instead of being stressed and worrying and being cautious. If a bad worker messes up, sometimes it's the last straw. I have done much analyzation and while it may sound unfair in that I'll blow one thing off for one person and the very same thing could get the other one fired, it's not like that. There's a buildup to someone being fired. Unless it's theft or violence(rare) in my experience, most people are fired after a long while of mistakes. While the last one may be the focal point, it truly is a collage of miscues.Well, I guess I wasn't asking you just this kinda seems like my thinking about Favre.

 

[Beergogglz]

minimize sure but not ignoring....I guess I see your point.Have you ever been a boss? For me, I remember the hard work and praise it. I do believe people are human and make mistakes and that doesn't cancel out the good an employee has done for me. They appreciate it and I feel that grants them a quicker ability to get right back to doing good instead of being stressed and worrying and being cautious. If a bad worker messes up, sometimes it's the last straw. I have done much analyzation and while it may sound unfair in that I'll blow one thing off for one person and the very same thing could get the other one fired, it's not like that. There's a buildup to someone being fired. Unless it's theft or violence(rare) in my experience, most people are fired after a long while of mistakes. While the last one may be the focal point, it truly is a collage of miscues.Well, I guess I wasn't asking you just this kinda seems like my thinking about Favre.

So you're of the mind that his net effect is so much better that you can and will excuse the forced throws and bad decisions he continues make?

 

[rhawkins68]

More relevant Q: How many times has he cost them a win...By the way, in their best, I would take Brady in a heartbeat over Favre. Brady is the prototype QB who won't cost you games while winning them, Favre is hit or miss and is definitely not the prototype QB

How is this question more relevant?They have more wins than any other team since he became the starting QB in 92 and have never fallen below .500 (8-8 is worst record).So he loses some for you. You still have one of the best franchises in the history of the NFL with Farve at QB.

 

[P Boy]

So you're of the mind that his net effect is so much better that you can and will excuse the forced throws and bad decisions he continues make?

Obviously to almost everyone except you & creamed, the answer is yes.Favre has an extremely strong arm, a very high degree of confidence in it, and a very short conscience. That's why you can see him make that stupid poor throw into the endzone that was picked off yet come back to lead an almost phenominal comeback. He's supremely confident in his arm strength & accuracy, which while it lends itself to dumb mistakes at times much more often lends itself to allowing for throws that no one else in the NFL can complete on a regular basis like Favre does.Yes, the tradeoff of some poor INTs is well worth all the top 10s in passing yardage, all the top 10s in passing TDs, and all the top 10s in pass completion percentage year after year after year. Then you add the fear factor of the D which opens up the running game because they don't dare let Favre pick them apart by bringing up the SS or playing hard corners, and you have an additional operating bonus on the offense.What surprises most people in this thread is that you two are so jaded that you can't understand the worth of the trade off. It seems awfully simple.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Are the two Favre bashers trying out for a remake of Dumb and Dumber?

 

[scooterg61]

[quote name=His passer rating declined for three years in a row following his MVP years before he managed to bounce back the past two years (though in terms of present performance he isn't quite in the elite ranks of Manning' date=' McNabb and Culpepper).

If you look at his resume and look at what he has done lately (like the comeback win the week his dad died or playing through the adversity of his wife's cancer), he gets big points from me for heart and leadership.

None of the big three have a resume (yet) that matches Favre in terms of comebacks, superbowls or MVPs.

In terms of career achievement in the "modern" era, he ranks up there with Montana, Young, Elway and Marino. In terms of present skill levels, he's middle of the pack.

scooterg61 says:

to even put mcnabb into the same class as favre is absurd.. even putting cpepp there is a disgrace... look at favres team.. he has no help defensively... yet he was #1 in TDS last year.. yup.. better than maning and brady... he has no names catching the ball... finally someone(walker) came forward and started to do something.. injuries have plagued his team.. driver for over half a season and ferguson always hurt... he cant get into rhythm with anyone...

can you say brady or cpepper never had a season under .500?? even manning.. did he always finish above .500???wasnt it manning and company that failed each of the last 3 years to get to the big dance???? and he has superstars around him!!.. brady had an awesome defense to make up for any of his mistakes.. but if it wasnt for a so called non fumble call, brady doesnt go to the super bowl ......

and mcnabb.. wow.. if it wasnt for his great defense that philly had for the last 3 years.. he never would have gotten to playoffs... he had a unreal tough defense behind him to help... but he choked on all 3 big games in NFC championships... ACTUALLY .. getting clobbered in 2 of them.. hitting WRs in their feet and over throwing them.. sucked actually....

so if you were starting a team right now.. who would you want as your QB?.. i would say... right now... with surronding cast.. i would want manning #1.. but.. put manning with GB and he would not do near as well.. ON the other hand.. give favre.. wayne.harrison,pollard,edge, and company... and favre never would have had lost to NE in any round no matter how good NE def was..

give me favre anyday... he is an unreal QB.... and put aside his personal experiences with his wife and dad.. and hes still the most awesome QB i have seen in quite awhile..

marino rocked.. but looked what he had also.. when you compare favres acomplishments.. PLEASE!!!! look what he had to play with... compared to the guys in question now....

closest to favre right now is brady.. he has had to suffer through some real bad times with injuries galore to both sides of that team.. and they keep winning.. so i would put..right now with what they got.. favre and brady top 2... manning has such an insane surronding unit that helps him do what he does.. dont get me wrong.. manning is a true leader.. i think he is awesome.. but put in the big game.. he comes up empty.. both oppurtunites to go to big dance and he lost both tries to brady.. thats why i put brady ahead..

fantasy value though... sure noone can argue that.. manning would be #1 right now..

 

[Lord Farquaad]

Beergogglz has been around since the first day of the new board, yet almost 1/2 his 100 posts rip Favre or the Packers. Almost 25% have been in this thread alone. The other guy has been around for 2 weeks and more than 1/2 of his posts have been in this thread.Great fishing trip you two.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Great fishing trip you two.

I'm not sure they are smart enough to start a fishing trip.

 

[P Boy]

Beergogglz has been around since the first day of the new board, yet almost 1/2 his 100 posts rip Favre or the Packers. Almost 25% have been in this thread alone. The other guy has been around for 2 weeks and more than 1/2 of his posts have been in this thread.Great fishing trip you two.

I honestly don't think they are fishing. I think they just don't understand football & are trying to make themselves out as the holders of some superior intellect by racking up points scorching a player like Favre. Bearsgogglz has been around for a while (since cheatsheets.com) and has posted other similar nonsense in the past. Nice to see so many call them on it.

 

[scooterg61]

I stand by my statements, he clearly blows more games on his own than he wins. People forget the reason they won the SB was not because of Favre but because of one of the all time great kick returns. Funny, nobody ever mentions that but thinks it was because of Farve. How about Farve not beating the Broncos when they were heavy favorites and people were already talking about GB as a dynasty team? You could say Farve lost a SB in a top 5 choke jobs of all time SB games (in terms of pt spread).If someone can disprove that he doesn't blow big games (last year playoffs and SB vs Broncos are just two of many) by jacking up throws because "That's that loveable kooky Farve again!" crap then we must have watched a different player.

hey cream..did ya watch the game..??? i see not... favre led gb down and was ahead.. philly got the ball back and it WAS THE DEFENSE THAT GAVE UP 4TH AND 26.. hey man.. that saying has been around all year.. were ya been.. was favre out on the field?? NO!!!!!!.. so how did favre choke??? favre did what he had to and AGAIN.. the defense let him down... and as far as the super bowls won and lost.. .. that kickoff guy you cant name.. desmond howard.. hope that helps.. in that game .. desmond ran back a td yes.. but favre threw a 56 and a(super bowl record no less) 81 yd td passes.. o by the way.. he also ran for one.. boy.. yup.. he really sucked aint it... and as far as losing the following year to elway..Favre was 25 of 42 for 256 with 2 tds..(very good numbers) hell.. elway was 12 of 22.. great numbers?? no!!... terrell davis was the man that year.. gb DEFENSE had no answer to him... hell maybe favre should play defense too huh?? so please cream or clear whatever you are.. be real.. favre is an offensive player.. he cant play both sides of the ball.. but i am sure if you ask him.. HE WOULD LOVE TO!!! and the game isnt won because of HEAVY FAVS.. have you ever heard of ... THATS WHY THEY PLAY THE GAME..... OR ANY GIVEN TEAM CAN BEAT ANY GIVEN TEAM ON ANY GIVEN SUNDAY.. i have watched favre play for his entire career.. and i have seen ups and downs.. have seen throws like..why did he do that?? but on the other hand.. wow.. did you see that throw... those last words have CLEARLY 10 folded the first ... he has done 100 times the amount of awesome throws and combacks than bad throws resulting in losses... any day.. give me favre...

 

[rhawkins68]

For all the Favre lovers out there, just go look up his stats in close games, he is actually not even a decent QB.Anymore arguments them follow how to retrieve those stats from my previous post.

Obvious no one here can evaluate talent.

 

[rhawkins68]

For all the Favre lovers out there, just go look up his stats in close games, he is actually not even a decent QB.Anymore arguments them follow how to retrieve those stats from my previous post.

You are really a fool. Please go away and learn the following before coming back:1.) how to write in English2.) what the definition of a "decent QB" is

I will make sure and take more time to proof my mistakes in the future...doesn't discount the facts I brought up on Farve, does it?

In order to make an argument you need more data points than 2 of them. There have been some data points brought on by Packer fans that you have dismissed all ready. Simply put, when a QB has a winning percentage of 60% or higher your claim that "he lost" more games than "he won" is simply not provable. Yet, you claim that he has lost more games... it is up to you to prove your statements instead of the other way around. You have not done so so quit trying to turn the tables on us to try and disprove what you have stated. You have stated very few data points and Packer fans have stated more data points than you have.1) learn how to argue and add data to your argument.2) quit fishing

Again, you aren't reading my posts PK. I said IMPORTANT games he has lost as many as he has won. I NEVER said his overall record was sub .500. Heck, he had TONS of games against the likes to Chicago and Detroit that were auto wins and EVERYONE knows his overall record is about .500. Overall record doesn't mean as much just like throwing for tons of yards (look at Warren Moon as another prime example). When I think of a big time, top 5 QB of all time, I think someone who a) won't cost you games and b) produces in the clutch much more than not. He doesn't make the list.Has Farve won "big" games? Yes, and I stated as such but with the good you must include the bad where he has lost just as many "big" games. I provided even links to back up my claim that in late close games his numbers stink. I am not bashing Farve, I am not a GB fan nor a fan of the NFC and actually find him fun to watch at times. Unless the historical stats are wrong, you can't overlook them.

Name the better QB's and see how they stack.

 

[Beergogglz]

So you're of the mind that his net effect is so much better that you can and will excuse the forced throws and bad decisions he continues make?

Obviously to almost everyone except you & creamed, the answer is yes.Favre has an extremely strong arm, a very high degree of confidence in it, and a very short conscience. That's why you can see him make that stupid poor throw into the endzone that was picked off yet come back to lead an almost phenominal comeback. He's supremely confident in his arm strength & accuracy, which while it lends itself to dumb mistakes at times much more often lends itself to allowing for throws that no one else in the NFL can complete on a regular basis like Favre does.

Yes, the tradeoff of some poor INTs is well worth all the top 10s in passing yardage, all the top 10s in passing TDs, and all the top 10s in pass completion percentage year after year after year. Then you add the fear factor of the D which opens up the running game because they don't dare let Favre pick them apart by bringing up the SS or playing hard corners, and you have an additional operating bonus on the offense.

What surprises most people in this thread is that you two are so jaded that you can't understand the worth of the trade off. It seems awfully simple.

Jaded? How so? Because I'm not willing to look past the mistakes of the past few years and see him as a do-nothing-wrong golden boy? Listen, when it comes down to it, there's another QB I would take in a heartbeat over Favre for a one game, must-win situation: Joe Montana. I won't accuse you of being jaded since you won't agree, though. It's an opinion, nothing more. :rotflmao: at the Favre boot lickers who take it so personally when another person won't kow-tow to their "He's the greatest ever!" crap....

 

[rhawkins68]

So you're of the mind that his net effect is so much better that you can and will excuse the forced throws and bad decisions he continues make?

Obviously to almost everyone except you & creamed, the answer is yes.Favre has an extremely strong arm, a very high degree of confidence in it, and a very short conscience. That's why you can see him make that stupid poor throw into the endzone that was picked off yet come back to lead an almost phenominal comeback. He's supremely confident in his arm strength & accuracy, which while it lends itself to dumb mistakes at times much more often lends itself to allowing for throws that no one else in the NFL can complete on a regular basis like Favre does.

Yes, the tradeoff of some poor INTs is well worth all the top 10s in passing yardage, all the top 10s in passing TDs, and all the top 10s in pass completion percentage year after year after year. Then you add the fear factor of the D which opens up the running game because they don't dare let Favre pick them apart by bringing up the SS or playing hard corners, and you have an additional operating bonus on the offense.

What surprises most people in this thread is that you two are so jaded that you can't understand the worth of the trade off. It seems awfully simple.

Jaded? How so? Because I'm not willing to look past the mistakes of the past few years and see him as a do-nothing-wrong golden boy? Listen, when it comes down to it, there's another QB I would take in a heartbeat over Favre for a one game, must-win situation: Joe Montana. I won't accuse you of being jaded since you won't agree, though. It's an opinion, nothing more. :rotflmao: the Favre boot lickers who take it so personally when another person won't kow-tow to their "He's the greatest ever!" crap....

I think most Farve fan's (me included) can accept Montana as a better QB. I am not s ure that was the point though. Farve is one of the Top 10 of all time if not top 5 depending on who you ask. That puts him in pretty good company through the ages so far.I would rather hear people slober all over Farve who has proven him self versus all the Vick supporters out there.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

:rotflmao: at the Favre boot lickers who take it so personally when another person won't kow-tow to their "He's the greatest ever!" crap....

I'm not sure anyone has written in this thread that Favre is the "greatest ever".Glad you can laugh at this too because you have given many of us some good laughs as well.

 

[Beergogglz]

So you're of the mind that his net effect is so much better that you can and will excuse the forced throws and bad decisions he continues make?

Obviously to almost everyone except you & creamed, the answer is yes.Favre has an extremely strong arm, a very high degree of confidence in it, and a very short conscience. That's why you can see him make that stupid poor throw into the endzone that was picked off yet come back to lead an almost phenominal comeback. He's supremely confident in his arm strength & accuracy, which while it lends itself to dumb mistakes at times much more often lends itself to allowing for throws that no one else in the NFL can complete on a regular basis like Favre does.

Yes, the tradeoff of some poor INTs is well worth all the top 10s in passing yardage, all the top 10s in passing TDs, and all the top 10s in pass completion percentage year after year after year. Then you add the fear factor of the D which opens up the running game because they don't dare let Favre pick them apart by bringing up the SS or playing hard corners, and you have an additional operating bonus on the offense.

What surprises most people in this thread is that you two are so jaded that you can't understand the worth of the trade off. It seems awfully simple.

Jaded? How so? Because I'm not willing to look past the mistakes of the past few years and see him as a do-nothing-wrong golden boy? Listen, when it comes down to it, there's another QB I would take in a heartbeat over Favre for a one game, must-win situation: Joe Montana. I won't accuse you of being jaded since you won't agree, though. It's an opinion, nothing more. :rotflmao: the Favre boot lickers who take it so personally when another person won't kow-tow to their "He's the greatest ever!" crap....

I think most Farve fan's (me included) can accept Montana as a better QB. I am not s ure that was the point though. Farve is one of the Top 10 of all time if not top 5 depending on who you ask. That puts him in pretty good company through the ages so far.I would rather hear people slober all over Farve who has proven him self versus all the Vick supporters out there.

Really? Most GB fans I've spoken to feel just the opposite. They point to Montana having better players around him and better coaching, and invariably drum up the ol' "Well, Favre had none of that and look at what he's done!" line, which basically discounts all of the fine teammates Favre has had over the years. But you're right; that wasn't the point. I made the comment that Favre followers give him credit for most everything good GB does while explaining away or accepting the miscues without question; do you disagree with that assessment?Interesting that the Vick supporters annoy you. He does some incredible things on the field, but he makes a lot of mistakes as well. His fans support him no matter what, though, even when he costs them games. Hmmmm. This kinda sounds familiar.

 

[P Boy]

there's another QB I would take in a heartbeat over Favre for a one game, must-win situation: Joe Montana. I won't accuse you of being jaded since you won't agree, though. It's an opinion, nothing more.

Now that's interesting, because Favre has far surpassed Montana in every meaningful individual statistic for NFL QBs while playing for 2 less years. Now I'm sure that you'll reach for the "4 SB titles" argument, but then Favre hasn't played with Rice for years at WR, and he hasn't played with a top 5 D constantly, like Montana did either.Put that kind of talent around Favre, and now you have something that is truly scary...

 

[Bri]

minimize sure but not ignoring....I guess I see your point.Have you ever been a boss? For me, I remember the hard work and praise it. I do believe people are human and make mistakes and that doesn't cancel out the good an employee has done for me. They appreciate it and I feel that grants them a quicker ability to get right back to doing good instead of being stressed and worrying and being cautious. If a bad worker messes up, sometimes it's the last straw. I have done much analyzation and while it may sound unfair in that I'll blow one thing off for one person and the very same thing could get the other one fired, it's not like that. There's a buildup to someone being fired. Unless it's theft or violence(rare) in my experience, most people are fired after a long while of mistakes. While the last one may be the focal point, it truly is a collage of miscues.Well, I guess I wasn't asking you just this kinda seems like my thinking about Favre.

So you're of the mind that his net effect is so much better that you can and will excuse the forced throws and bad decisions he continues make?

Yes I suppose, though I think you're setting me up for a fall....YesThat's Favre. He's a gunslinger or a schoolyard QB, each characterize him well. Ya "live" by the gunslinging or "die" by it.Jordan missed shots, he wasn't 100% FG percentage. Montana didn't complete every pass. Montana supposedly couldn't throw the long ball right? I suppose no player is perfect. I really think little of the 3-4 passes you gripe about. He must've thrown 1000s of balls. I suppose fairly, I'm not praising some excellent Sharpe or Freeman passes either. This isn't a greatest QB thread.He commands respect and strikes fear in opposing Ds. You may hate him. Raider fans couldn't stand John Elway. I dunno that I've ever seen such hatred (maybe for Romo)but that was because he found a way to beat them and it "drove them nuts". I remember one with like 30 seconds left and he's about to get sacked but somehow breaks free and fires a bullet for a TD. When he's in the grasp it's "we got him, we got him" and then it becomes "oh sh!" That hatred was truly respect. I don't doubt yours is too.

 

[Beergogglz]

there's another QB I would take in a heartbeat over Favre for a one game, must-win situation: Joe Montana. I won't accuse you of being jaded since you won't agree, though. It's an opinion, nothing more.

Now that's interesting, because Favre has far surpassed Montana in every meaningful individual statistic for NFL QBs while playing for 2 less years. Now I'm sure that you'll reach for the "4 SB titles" argument, but then Favre hasn't played with Rice for years at WR, and he hasn't played with a top 5 D constantly, like Montana did either.Put that kind of talent around Favre, and now you have something that is truly scary...

As if the numbers are the only thing that matters, PB? Ah well. Whatever argument you need to justify Bretty is the best, right?

 

[P Boy]

As if the numbers are the only thing that matters, PB? Ah well. Whatever argument you need to justify Bretty is the best, right?

You tell me what the other things are, then. You haven't specified one yet, as far as I can tell. Just some random ranting.And personally, I don't think you can compare a guy like Favre with a guy like Montana straight up. I think they both belong in the top 4 ever to play the game, but I'm not going to make a distinction as to which is better than the other.

 

[Beergogglz]

minimize sure but not ignoring....I guess I see your point.Have you ever been a boss? For me, I remember the hard work and praise it. I do believe people are human and make mistakes and that doesn't cancel out the good an employee has done for me. They appreciate it and I feel that grants them a quicker ability to get right back to doing good instead of being stressed and worrying and being cautious. If a bad worker messes up, sometimes it's the last straw. I have done much analyzation and while it may sound unfair in that I'll blow one thing off for one person and the very same thing could get the other one fired, it's not like that. There's a buildup to someone being fired. Unless it's theft or violence(rare) in my experience, most people are fired after a long while of mistakes. While the last one may be the focal point, it truly is a collage of miscues.Well, I guess I wasn't asking you just this kinda seems like my thinking about Favre.

So you're of the mind that his net effect is so much better that you can and will excuse the forced throws and bad decisions he continues make?

Yes I suppose, though I think you're setting me up for a fall....YesThat's Favre. He's a gunslinger or a schoolyard QB, each characterize him well. Ya "live" by the gunslinging or "die" by it.Jordan missed shots, he wasn't 100% FG percentage. Montana didn't complete every pass. Montana supposedly couldn't throw the long ball right? I suppose no player is perfect. I really think little of the 3-4 passes you gripe about. He must've thrown 1000s of balls. I suppose fairly, I'm not praising some excellent Sharpe or Freeman passes either. This isn't a greatest QB thread.He commands respect and strikes fear in opposing Ds. You may hate him. Raider fans couldn't stand John Elway. I dunno that I've ever seen such hatred (maybe for Romo)but that was because he found a way to beat them and it "drove them nuts". I remember one with like 30 seconds left and he's about to get sacked but somehow breaks free and fires a bullet for a TD. When he's in the grasp it's "we got him, we got him" and then it becomes "oh sh!" That hatred was truly respect. I don't doubt yours is too.

No, not setting you up for anything, Bri. Just trying to understand, that's all. I guess if I were a GB/Favre fanatic I might be able to fully grasp the concept. And make no mistake, I don't hate him, either. He's a great QB, no question. I just am not willing to absolve all of his sins when they occur, and as of last few years, it sure seems like those sins happen about as frequently as him pulling a game out by himself.

 

[Beergogglz]

As if the numbers are the only thing that matters, PB? Ah well. Whatever argument you need to justify Bretty is the best, right?

You tell me what the other things are, then. You haven't specified one yet, as far as I can tell. Just some random ranting.And personally, I don't think you can compare a guy like Favre with a guy like Montana straight up. I think they both belong in the top 4 ever to play the game, but I'm not going to make a distinction as to which is better than the other.

How about decision making skills? Poise? Leadership ability? Performance under pressure?I'm a bit confused, though. You say it's not possible to compare the 2 QB's straight up, but just a few posts ago you were speculating about what Favre surely would have done had he been surrounded by the teams Montana was on, as if it's a foregone conclusion the result would have been better.Whichever way the wind blows, I guess, eh?

 

[14464]

Question:Who has the second most INT in the redzone since 1991?

Umm... Favre??Question to you.What other QB in the league today has been playing since 1991?? 2nd part... How many games has the next QB, other than Favre, played in that time??Your question is flawed because there is only one answer... you repeat making as #### of yourself so keep it up.In reply to your other post quoting me... I admit Favre had a bad game but can you honestly say most of the first half calls the refs made on the Packers defense were fair?? They were some of the worst calls I have seen. Plus they did not call some penalties on the Jaguar defense in the first half that should have been called. Believe me, I was there and saw the crap go down. From me and others in this thread you have been so I think you rank up there with the Matrix's of this board.

Ok I'll give you a few more questions:1. How many home wins does GB have this year? Do you think that home record indicates a top tier QB at the helm?2. Why do you think LAMBERT (Kerry) Field is no longer a place where they have home field?3. When has Farve won a BIG game in your opinion?4. Do you think Farve played a big part in their big time loss vs Atlanta in 2002 and last year's playoff game vs the Iggles?Will Farve go down as one of the best QBs? Of course he will but let's not overlook that he played a HUGE part in this history of GB's bigger losses. Remember, his across the board stats are worse in close and close and late games.

 

[14464]

LOL! How did I know these comments were going to come from Bearsgogglz & creamoftheVikes?So you 2 are saying that 1 game defines a 13 year stellar career by a QB? You guys have even less acumen than I thought - and even I didn't think that was possible.

What we are saying is that this game mimmicks many previous games in Favre's career.

So how many Super Bowl victories and MYP's does your QB have?????? :crickets:

So if I say a QB who has more or less than Farve means what to this topic?

Considering you are saying Favre isn't a HOF QB, I'd say, quit bashing and learn something about football. Your man C-Pep will never ever accomplish the MVP's, nor will he ever win a Super Bowl..Ever This is ridiculous to even argue with a 12yr old mentality like yours

Damn, I thought he was only 7.

Sort of like some of your other postings, not even close.

 

[14464]

Now, the refs sure did their damnedest to help GB along, what with picking up that flag after Bratt pegged the ref with the ball (only after he batted his eyelashes at them, though), and then that horse#### pass interference call immediately thereafter.

And you call the Packer fans in this thread biased. :rotflmao: But yup, Favre's 2 INTs were huge plays in the game -- especially the one in the Red Zone. That was an absolute killer and a huge turning point in the game. No doubt about it.

And this hits home what some of us were saying before. Why Farve acts shocked when he threw that terrible INT in the redzone is beyond me..he has done that plenty of times before.

Not this season. Coming into today, Favre had thrown just 1 INT inside the 10-yard line. Oh, that info came courtesy of the link you provided, so thanks for that. Also, that INT was his first in 161 pass attempts at Lambeau this season, so he clearly hasn't been throwing many INTs lately at home. And I notice you still are unable to prove he "loses more games than he wins."

Tell me this packersfan, when was the last big time game he has won for you? How do you like the fact that your home field is no longer a place where they have home field advantage? Finally, since he is such a great qb, how do you explain their .500 record at home, many losses against crapy teams!?!?!?!?

 

[Mario Kart]

Here is your Tom Brady tonight:T. Brady............18/29...........171.........3.........44 INT's and that last one cost them the game. Give me Favre.

 

[14464]

Here is your Tom Brady tonight:T. Brady............18/29...........171.........3.........44 INT's and that last one cost them the game. Give me Favre.

2 SB wins for Brady, one more than Farve champ. You know Farve watch tonight's game and said "Sheet, I do that at least a few times a year and in the postseason!"Love that 4-4 HOME Farve Cookin record, what's NE vs GB record PKev?

 

[sts911911]

Here is your Tom Brady tonight:T. Brady............18/29...........171.........3.........44 INT's and that last one cost them the game. Give me Favre.

2 SB wins for Brady, one more than Farve champ. You know Farve watch tonight's game and said "Sheet, I do that at least a few times a year and in the postseason!"Love that 4-4 HOME Farve Cookin record, what's NE vs GB record PKev?

So is Bruschi a better LB than Lewis too? I mean he's got 2 SB's to Lewis' one... great logic there...

 

[Beergogglz]

Here is your Tom Brady tonight:T. Brady............18/29...........171.........3.........44 INT's and that last one cost them the game.  Give me Favre.

Are you realling going to try and base it on one game? Geez. I'd love to know your reaction to Favre's 6 interception pooch screw against the Rams in '02, then......

 

[DeCleater]

Love that 4-4 HOME Farve Cookin record, what's NE vs GB record PKev?

Green Bay 1 NE O Head to headOverall Super Bowl recordsGreen Bay 3-1NE 2-2Proven wrong by facts again. So now change the argument to something else, that seems to be your style, rant about something until your proven wrong and then change the subject.

 

[Beergogglz]

Speaking of Brady, anyone see his classy quote accepting the blame for last night's loss? No 3 week hiatus capped by pointing his finger at a WR who supposedly ran the wrong route there. Hope a certain other QB was paying attention....

 

[rhawkins68]

So you're of the mind that his net effect is so much better that you can and will excuse the forced throws and bad decisions he continues make?

Obviously to almost everyone except you & creamed, the answer is yes.Favre has an extremely strong arm, a very high degree of confidence in it, and a very short conscience. That's why you can see him make that stupid poor throw into the endzone that was picked off yet come back to lead an almost phenominal comeback. He's supremely confident in his arm strength & accuracy, which while it lends itself to dumb mistakes at times much more often lends itself to allowing for throws that no one else in the NFL can complete on a regular basis like Favre does.

Yes, the tradeoff of some poor INTs is well worth all the top 10s in passing yardage, all the top 10s in passing TDs, and all the top 10s in pass completion percentage year after year after year. Then you add the fear factor of the D which opens up the running game because they don't dare let Favre pick them apart by bringing up the SS or playing hard corners, and you have an additional operating bonus on the offense.

What surprises most people in this thread is that you two are so jaded that you can't understand the worth of the trade off. It seems awfully simple.

Jaded? How so? Because I'm not willing to look past the mistakes of the past few years and see him as a do-nothing-wrong golden boy? Listen, when it comes down to it, there's another QB I would take in a heartbeat over Favre for a one game, must-win situation: Joe Montana. I won't accuse you of being jaded since you won't agree, though. It's an opinion, nothing more. :rotflmao: the Favre boot lickers who take it so personally when another person won't kow-tow to their "He's the greatest ever!" crap....

I think most Farve fan's (me included) can accept Montana as a better QB. I am not s ure that was the point though. Farve is one of the Top 10 of all time if not top 5 depending on who you ask. That puts him in pretty good company through the ages so far.I would rather hear people slober all over Farve who has proven him self versus all the Vick supporters out there.

Really? Most GB fans I've spoken to feel just the opposite. They point to Montana having better players around him and better coaching, and invariably drum up the ol' "Well, Favre had none of that and look at what he's done!" line, which basically discounts all of the fine teammates Favre has had over the years. But you're right; that wasn't the point. I made the comment that Favre followers give him credit for most everything good GB does while explaining away or accepting the miscues without question; do you disagree with that assessment?Interesting that the Vick supporters annoy you. He does some incredible things on the field, but he makes a lot of mistakes as well. His fans support him no matter what, though, even when he costs them games. Hmmmm. This kinda sounds familiar.

Sorry but there is a big difference between Farve and Vick. In 3 years with Vick as the starter they are 2-3 for winning seasons. Let's wait at least another 5 years before even comparing the two.Sure some people are biased one way or the other but then again you have been to. I would prefer Montana to lead my team with Farve a close second right now between the two.

1) Winning Record with him at the helm.

Look at the Packs record before his arrival for 13 years then look at it for 13 years with him at the helm. The pack have not been below 8-8 in those 13 years. Where prior to his arrival they were below .500 8 of 13 years and made 8-8 4 of those 13 years. Funny if you look at the 49'ers they were not a great team until Montana got the helm.

2) People around him

When comparing to montana this does not make a big difference because Montana or Farve are both excellent at the position and have long time winning records with a varied crew around them. In fact Montanta changed teams and still had two winning seasons.

Now lets look at the defenses they had with them for the ride. Joe from what I recall always had a good defense to help him along. Brett and company have put toghether some good seasons with pourous defenses. The only year I remember J oe having a terrible defense they were 3-6.

So maybe there is some truth about supporting cast just not on the offensive side of the ball.

3) Time span

Montana kept the 49'ers at an excellant level for a decade and only posted one really bad season so 9-10 aint bad. You can also tag on an extra 2 winning years with the chiefs. So Farve edges this one out.

4) Stats

These would probably be considered a dead heat with Brett losing overall.

5) Super Bowls

Defense wins championships and Joe usually had a good Defense supporting him.

So really to alot of people these guys are in a dead heat but I still think Montana is the better QB. But Brett is one of the greatest the sport has seen without a doubt. Is he the best ever? That's debatable since his career is not over yet and even then there are so many Greats it will be hard to decide.

 

[rhawkins68]

Speaking of Brady, anyone see his classy quote accepting the blame for last night's loss? No 3 week hiatus capped by pointing his finger at a WR who supposedly ran the wrong route there. Hope a certain other QB was paying attention....

I would love for you to explain to me how you know he ran the right or wrong route?

 

[rhawkins68]

Here is your Tom Brady tonight:T. Brady............18/29...........171.........3.........44 INT's and that last one cost them the game. Give me Favre.

2 SB wins for Brady, one more than Farve champ. You know Farve watch tonight's game and said "Sheet, I do that at least a few times a year and in the postseason!"Love that 4-4 HOME Farve Cookin record, what's NE vs GB record PKev?

It is to early to compare Brady with Farve. Brady has a good supporting cast and when he won the Super Bowls he had a good defense to back him. The Pats are a well managed and run team. Let's wait another year or two. If Brady keeps this up he will be one of the best ever. He has a great start and I like the way he plays. But winning super bowls does not make you the best QB. Example Aikman. I do not consider him one of the best ever but count the rings. He's got them for my team.

 

[Beergogglz]

Speaking of Brady, anyone see his classy quote accepting the blame for last night's loss?  No 3 week hiatus capped by pointing his finger at a WR who supposedly ran the wrong route there.  Hope a certain other QB was paying attention....   

I would love for you to explain to me how you know he ran the right or wrong route?

I'll assume you're talking about the Philly playoff game, because Brady didn't even offer up an excuse for his throws: Sherman: Eagles’ strong rush led to interception andFavre gives NFL Network exclusive analysis of INTSo Sherman absolves Walker of blame in the first one, but Brett insinuates that Walker didn't run the right route for the situation in the 2nd. If you remember the play at all, it was horribly overthrown and there was no way in hell Walker could have gotten to it no matter what route he was running.

 

[Beergogglz]

Beergogglz has been around since the first day of the new board, yet almost 1/2 his 100 posts rip Favre or the Packers.  Almost 25% have been in this thread alone.  The other guy has been around for 2 weeks and more than 1/2 of his posts have been in this thread.

Great fishing trip you two.

I honestly don't think they are fishing. I think they just don't understand football & are trying to make themselves out as the holders of some superior intellect by racking up points scorching a player like Favre. Bearsgogglz has been around for a while (since cheatsheets.com) and has posted other similar nonsense in the past. Nice to see so many call them on it.

Yeah, that's it -- we don't understand football like you do, PB. I guess "scorching" a player in your book amounts to looking at him objectively, eh? Favre makes plays, but he also makes more than his share of bad plays. And that ratio sure seems to have leveled out the past few years. I was under the impression that QB's normally make progress and get better as far as decision making goes the longer they're in the league. Yet, it seems like Favre still makes 2-3 flat out horrible plays (you know, the ones that have you saying, "What the #### was he thinking?!") a game, and he's in his 13th year. I know, you'll say "That's just the crazy, kooky Favre!" I just don't agree with it. I'm not bashing the guy, merely pointing out that I can't remember a player that was fawned over and put on a pedestal so high who had such an obvious flaw. Don't take it personally, PB. I just don't worship the man like you do. It's kinda creepy.

 

[P Boy]

Yeah, that's it -- we don't understand football.

Congratulations on making it to step 3 of the program. Only 9 more to go. Hang in there, my friend. We're all pulling for you.

 

[Beergogglz]

Yeah, that's it -- we don't understand football.

Congratulations on making it to step 3 of the program. Only 9 more to go. Hang in there, my friend. We're all pulling for you.

Yeah, I'd rather not make this a personal thing, PB. If you have some on-topic stuff to add, then have at it. I'm guessing you don't, though, hence the mud slinging....

 

[rhawkins68]

Speaking of Brady, anyone see his classy quote accepting the blame for last night's loss? No 3 week hiatus capped by pointing his finger at a WR who supposedly ran the wrong route there. Hope a certain other QB was paying attention....

I would love for you to explain to me how you know he ran the right or wrong route?

I'll assume you're talking about the Philly playoff game, because Brady didn't even offer up an excuse for his throws: Sherman: Eagles’ strong rush led to interception andFavre gives NFL Network exclusive analysis of INTSo Sherman absolves Walker of blame in the first one, but Brett insinuates that Walker didn't run the right route for the situation in the 2nd. If you remember the play at all, it was horribly overthrown and there was no way in hell Walker could have gotten to it no matter what route he was running.

Farve did not change his story

Favre told reporters both he and receiver Javon Walker were to blame for the interception, which set up the winning field goal by the Eagles.

"He has a read route on that and he can take the skinny post or he sets it down. Every time we've ever run it regardless of coverage, he's taken it. Robert Ferguson, first touchdown of the game, he's got a read route. On that particular route, with that coverage, he was supposed to set it down. Am I glad he didn't set it down? You bet. But, on that last pass, Javon I thought he was going to take it, considering they were blitzing. I've got to turn my back to the defense, so I did what I thought was best. When it works out, it's a great play. But when it doesn't, everyone wants to question it."

Does not seem changed to me. It just gives people more to read into. He never says he is right or wrong. Just that he thought he was going to take a different route. It simply was they were on the wrong page. Even Reid who would have charted tendancies thought they were on a differnt page. Sure there's no way for him to know but his statement would indicate a tendancy he saw.Does sherman say who was wrong. No he needed to look at tape.

“No, I don’t believe so,” Sherman said. “I’ll have to look at the tape, but I didn’t feel that way. (Favre) had immediate pressure on him and he let it go and they caught it.”

Until he talks to each player and goes over film he will not know. Maybe a wrong route was run maybe not. But there is not a way for a fan to know without everyone on the team agreeing.The fact is it is very lame blaming Farve for a team loss.

 

[rhawkins68]

Beergogglz has been around since the first day of the new board, yet almost 1/2 his 100 posts rip Favre or the Packers. Almost 25% have been in this thread alone. The other guy has been around for 2 weeks and more than 1/2 of his posts have been in this thread.

Great fishing trip you two.

I honestly don't think they are fishing. I think they just don't understand football & are trying to make themselves out as the holders of some superior intellect by racking up points scorching a player like Favre. Bearsgogglz has been around for a while (since cheatsheets.com) and has posted other similar nonsense in the past. Nice to see so many call them on it.

Yeah, that's it -- we don't understand football like you do, PB. I guess "scorching" a player in your book amounts to looking at him objectively, eh? Favre makes plays, but he also makes more than his share of bad plays. And that ratio sure seems to have leveled out the past few years. I was under the impression that QB's normally make progress and get better as far as decision making goes the longer they're in the league. Yet, it seems like Favre still makes 2-3 flat out horrible plays (you know, the ones that have you saying, "What the #### was he thinking?!") a game, and he's in his 13th year. I know, you'll say "That's just the crazy, kooky Favre!" I just don't agree with it. I'm not bashing the guy, merely pointing out that I can't remember a player that was fawned over and put on a pedestal so high who had such an obvious flaw. Don't take it personally, PB. I just don't worship the man like you do. It's kinda creepy.

Why is it an obvious flaw? QB's who throw the ball alot are going to have a high interception rate.

Why should people not?

He is one of the top 10 of all time. I put him right up there with J. Montana and in the top 3 of all time. But differnt people see this in a different light.

Sure, he makes mistakes so did J. Montana, J. Unitas, D. Marino, P. Manning. Who should we compare him to?

But 13 winning seasons when you barely had 1 the 13 prior is a big deal. J. Montana did the same the the 49'ers franchise.

 

[P Boy]

Yeah, I'd rather not make this a personal thing, PB. If you have some on-topic stuff to add, then have at it. I'm guessing you don't, though, hence the mud slinging....

LOL @ being so sanctimonious when you & Vikingcream have been throwing around assertions with no evidence to back them up, simply expecting others to accept them as fact because you made them.You've run your mouth for several pages based on nothing more than your opinion, despite being confronted with contrary evidence on many fronts.Please, don't act so injured regarding something that you brought squarely upon yourself.

 

[scooterg61]

i have sat here and read all these remarks(bad or good) toward favre... my god.. i am stunned at the guys/girls that pound favre.... i am in the GB area and have watched favre for his entire career.. and o by the way i am a huge steelers fan.. so i am not siding with favre.. just stating the facts...b4 favre this team had nothing... losing records, no talents.. nothing... favre came to town and things went crazy for the first 2 years.. he had wild throws and some awesome games.. also.. he had some horrific games.. growing steps.. this man is an insane player to watch... i have never EVER seen a person want to win so bad as favre.... he is a coaches dream.. he gave back LOTS of $$$ to GB so they could get some FA'S in to help him.... hence.. in came reggie white, andre rison,and a couple of very good lineman.. and lo and behold.. look what happened.. back to back super bowls.. one they won and one they lost.. but it was GB as a team that won that first game.. favre had very good numbers both games.. he TORCHED NE badly in first one.... had at least double the stats as elway did in second one.. only problem was in game 2.. no defense.. they were winded at the end of the first qtr.. terrell ran wild on gb.. favre had no control over that game.... so dont stoop on his porch for that... IF YOU really watched all GB games.. you would know.. favre is amazing... he doesnt care about the score.. he always says we can win.... thats what i want on my team.. sure.. he makes some mistakes along the way.. he tries to thread the needle and sometimes it works.. sometimes not... but the guy is a god... he plays with more pain, than alot of other qbs in the league.. he wills his very mild talented team to play better and to try to win... i do believe that sometimes it comes down to coaching.... i am not a fan of sherman at all... listening to him say the same sh@t day after day is appalling.... favre is an awesome QB on a very average team.... lets try this non favre people.. what would GB's record be WITHOUT FAVRE?? the past 10 years????? ANSWER.. no talent coming in to this small market place.. no super bowl ring and no 2nd chance at one.. no 40-1 something at home in under 32 degree weather.... hell i serioulsy doubt if GB would ever have had a winning record... that alone stands testimony to favres greatness.. he has done something that i dont think any other QB could do... hell i wish we could bring in an aikman(4 rings) and see what he could do with out that front line,emmitt,irvin,moose and that awesome defense... or hell lets bring in montana with out roger craig,taylor,rice and a top 4-5 defense year after year.. see what he can do.. and sure.. lets bring in manning without the edge and harrison,wayne and all those other players.. manning cant win big games due to his pourous defense.. and he makes alot of mistakes in THE BIG GAMES.. lets see what they can do.. anyone that REALLY WATCHES football and looks at the big picture.. knows favre is one of the best TO EVER PLAY.. look at all the big guns..... marino,montana,young,manning,aikman.. and i am sure many others... how many keep winning at favres pace and keep playing game after game after game and have favres stats with noone around to help.... beergooglez or whatever you go by.. you are simply not a football watcher.. you must turn on GB games when favre makes an errant throw.. because if you really knew anything.. you would not be saying things you do... things favre does for the community and his area are EMMENSE!!!.. what he does on the field is unreal.. never seen balls fly at excess of 85MPH before.. never seen a qb that can throw a ball that breaks WRs fingers.. and if you go back and look at favres INTs.. how many were tipped, or bounced off the wr due to velocity.. how many came from favre having to throw 40 times a game because they were behind... and the other team knew that and sent the house !!!.. cmon.. lets be real.. you favre bashers are simply very jealous you dont have him on your team.. the records he is breaking year after year is a feat in itself...you guys wish you had him .. hell.. put him on cinncy,clev,buff, or any other team and i bet they too would see an increase in wins and playoffs..favre is top 3 ever to play and anyone that thinks different is not a football watcher but a very jealous or envyous coach potato that wishes favre was on there team..... and when i saw the madden sucking favre thread. i really laughed.. wake up man!!.. madden was a hell of a coach.. he knows talent and has been around football longer than most of you have been alove.. he knows what kinda player and person favre is.. so when he laughs and says there goes that favre again.. he is just doing that.. having fun.. but ask him outright.. would you want favre as you starting qb??, even with his errant passes sometimes??.. and every coach in football would say YES!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!! they will take favres will to win and stats every single time...thanx.STAT CHECK:ELWAY: -- Broncos, 1983-1998Career stats: 234 games, 4,123 of 7,250 for 51,475 yards, 300 TDs and 226 INTs; FAVRE:Career stats: 203 games, 4,186 of 6,812 for 48,272 yards, 365 TDs and 220 INTSJOHNNY U. -- Colts, Chargers, 1956-1973Career stats: 211 games, 2,830 of 5,186 for 40,239 yards, 290 TDs and 253 INTsMONTANA: Joe Montana -- 49ers, Chiefs, 1979-1994Career stats: 192 games, 3,409 of 5,391 for 40,551 yards, 273 TDs and 139 INTsMARINOan Marino -- Dolphins, 1983-1999Career stats: 242 games, 4,967 of 8,358 for 61,361 yards, 420 TDs and 252 INTsRoger Staubach -- Cowboys, 1969-1979Career stats: 131 games, 1,685 of 2,958 for 22,700 yards, 153 TDs and 109 INTsFran Tarkenton -- Vikings, Giants, 1961-1978Career stats: 246 games, 3,686 of 6,467 for 47,003 yards, 342 TDs and 266 INTsTerry Bradshaw -- Steelers, 1970-1983Career stats: 168 games, 2,025 of 3,901 for 27,989 yards, 212 TDs and 210 INTsnow show me where favre is so bad at this game.. stats are unreal.. and very close to the best to ever play.. and some hes way above

 

[Beergogglz]

Yeah, I'd rather not make this a personal thing, PB. If you have some on-topic stuff to add, then have at it. I'm guessing you don't, though, hence the mud slinging....

LOL @ being so sanctimonious when you & Vikingcream have been throwing around assertions with no evidence to back them up, simply expecting others to accept them as fact because you made them.You've run your mouth for several pages based on nothing more than your opinion, despite being confronted with contrary evidence on many fronts.Please, don't act so injured regarding something that you brought squarely upon yourself.

What assertions? That GB fans who worhip Favre almost always look past his obvious flaws? That it seems like the past few years there have been less "great" plays to win games by him, but the same amount of stupid mistakes? Do you agree/disagree with those statements?