Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (2 Viewers)

[ChuckLiddell]

I can agree with some of this Tripper. But, we still don't know who released the information that Martin checked in to a mental hospital. If we are going to believe these texts, then it's obvious that Martin told Richie.


Martin may have wanted to walk away. He recognized that he was having mental problems, so he sought help. He didn't feel comfortable getting that help from the team or the NFL. Someone betrayed his trust by releasing this information. At that point, Martin had no choice but to explain his actions. He may have felt that the team released this info, or since Richie was the only one he told, that Richie released it.

Who knows, had Martin been able to get the help he needed without information leaking, things could have turned out differently.

I'm not wall to wall with this story, so I didn't know about this angle. I think I posted in this thread early on, and I haven't kept up on the matter.

If the issue about the mental hospital is the crux of things, and he somehow told Incognito and Incognito alone, knowing how teams, and workpalces work, that word is simply going to spread. Doesn't make it right, but it is how it is, and I don't if you are in the Oval Office, a Fortune 500 board room or a UPS loading dock, that kind of talk will simply spread.

I'm quite sympathetic to mental issues and anxiety and that sort of thing and I hope Martin truly gets any help he needs and I hope him and Incognito can both play in the league if they are talented enough and that's their wish. But just because you have a moment of potential psychosis doesn't absolve of you responsibility for your conduct. To take an extreme example, if a guy murders someone because he's schitzophrenic, he's liable for his actions. So to that end, if Martin is having some sort of mental issue that causes him to run out of the lunch room, drive away and go AWOL for a few days, I'm sorry, that is conduct that does warrant some measure of an explanation. There has to be a balance between a very fair right to privacy and simply explaining in some manner your absence to your fellow employees, particularly when it happens in the manner it happened. To just say "Jonathans gone and its a private manner" is OF COURSE going to lead to gossip and speculation. How to move past that, man you are talking about rewiring society.

I do feel like the stigma with mental illness is decreasing but at some point, Martin is in a public forum. He is being handsomely compensated for the burden of having his workplace issue play out before the nation.

As far as I can tell, he had advisors and counsel in the time between his departure and word of this reaching the public. We see matters all the time described as "a family matter", "a personal situation" and Jonathan Martin isn't Peyton Manning. If he takes some time off, outside of a few Miami beat guys, is anyone going to press that hard on where he went.

It seems to me Martin escalated this matter to another level that it didn't need to go to, when he was outside the heat of the moment when he went scorched earth on Incognito and the Fins. As for the leak, given the way gossip spreads, unless it was implicitly told that confidentiality is a must, I can't fault Incognito for the word getting out unless he directly leaked it to the press.

At the end of the day, the evidence doesn't seem to support the accusation at this point. Perhaps more will come but at this point, I'm done faulting Incognito. He used stunningly poor judgment using racial language, even in a place of presumed comfort or acceptance, and that's the real reason he's in limbo professionally, even though there is little evidence of malice in his so doing.

And just because you have a mental episode doesn't mean you abandon all responsibility for your conduct and choices.

Spectacular post. Far too logical and well thought out to be accepted by some of the people on this board though. Any second now, you will get a "Have you ever thought that maybe..." followed by some ludicrous conspiracy theory blaming the Russians for Jonathan Martin's actions.

On another note, I guess it is impossible to rule out the possibility that the texts were not released in full, but using logical thought, it seems like a silly position. Eventually, the investigation will expose the full conversations, so why would Richie's peeps try to buy themselves 2 days of swayed public opinion, only to allow that to be completely washed away by cell phone records? If it were just Richie making the decisions, I could see that, but as has been alluded to, he hired a high priced firm. I cannot see them doing something that hackish, when the truth would follow in 2 days. They released texts dating back to 2012 that absolutely establish a strong relationship, no different that that of any 2 close male friends that you may pick at random.

I think some people on here are just going to refuse to ever see the truth, no matter how hard it hits them in the face. In poker terms, some people here are just pot committed at this point. They will disappear from the boards and come back under a new name before they admit that they were mistaken.

Keep attacking bully.

Why is it so unreal to believe that one party (Martin's) could release partial texts, but the other party (Incognito's) wouldn't do the same thing.

You keep saying I refuse to see the truth. Have you seen the truth? Once I see it, I will accept it.

PS. I will be here forever. No need to change my name.

My god. Unbelievable. If the truth crawled into your eyeball directly to your receptor and straight to your brain, you would not see it. Not in this case. You are far too programmed in your misguided beliefs to see the truth.

Martin did not just release partial texts. He released one side of the texts showing no context and deliberately painting his best friend and supporter as a racist monster for his own personal gain. How can you not see the difference between that, and releasing 30 pages of texts dating back to 2012 showing both of these guys bantering back and forth in rude, lude, normal 25 year old dude ways? And then of course there is the fact that every other person from the locker room that spoke made statements that basically supported this position from day 1. BLINDERS!

how do you know this is all of the texts?

how do you know what every person in the locker room said? Are you really Ted Wells?

How do we know that anyone actually landed on the moon? How do we know that dinosaurs coudlnt speak Spanish and Swahilli fluently? How do we know that Jonathan Martin isnt actually an alien from the galaxy Kantblok, and the planet N-E-1?

At some point, common sense must prevail.

 

[KCitons]

How do we know that anyone actually landed on the moon? How do we know that dinosaurs coudlnt speak Spanish and Swahilli fluently? How do we know that Jonathan Martin isnt actually an alien from the galaxy Kantblok, and the planet N-E-1?


At some point, common sense must prevail.

Right, or we could just wait for facts.

What did you gain by calling Martin a wuss 4 months ago?

 

[ChuckLiddell]

How do we know that anyone actually landed on the moon? How do we know that dinosaurs coudlnt speak Spanish and Swahilli fluently? How do we know that Jonathan Martin isnt actually an alien from the galaxy Kantblok, and the planet N-E-1?


At some point, common sense must prevail.

Right, or we could just wait for facts.

What did you gain by calling Martin a wuss 4 months ago?

Why do you care what I gained? I expressed my opinion, as did you that he was a "victim". I gained confirmation of my right to exercise my freedom of expression.

 

[KCitons]

How do we know that anyone actually landed on the moon? How do we know that dinosaurs coudlnt speak Spanish and Swahilli fluently? How do we know that Jonathan Martin isnt actually an alien from the galaxy Kantblok, and the planet N-E-1?


At some point, common sense must prevail.

Right, or we could just wait for facts.

What did you gain by calling Martin a wuss 4 months ago?

Why do you care what I gained? I expressed my opinion, as did you that he was a "victim". I gained confirmation of my right to exercise my freedom of expression.

You expressed your opinion by labeling a person in a negative way. Bully attitude from the beginning.

I didn't label Martin as a victim. He said he was a victim, I just listened.

I guess Martin exercised his rights too.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

How do we know that anyone actually landed on the moon? How do we know that dinosaurs coudlnt speak Spanish and Swahilli fluently? How do we know that Jonathan Martin isnt actually an alien from the galaxy Kantblok, and the planet N-E-1?


At some point, common sense must prevail.

Right, or we could just wait for facts.

What did you gain by calling Martin a wuss 4 months ago?

Why do you care what I gained? I expressed my opinion, as did you that he was a "victim". I gained confirmation of my right to exercise my freedom of expression.

You expressed your opinion by labeling a person in a negative way. Bully attitude from the beginning.

I didn't label Martin as a victim. He said he was a victim, I just listened.

I guess Martin exercised his rights too.

You have referred to me as a closed-minded knuckle dragger. Is that a positive light in your code? How about when you accused me of encouraging my 10 year old son to participate in violent, criminal activities? Was that you being positive?

The term bullying has taken on a completely new meaning because of this incident. Now, referring to someone as weak is "bullying"? That is all part of what I referenced as the Wussification of America, which you (in typical fashion) in turn interpreted as me calling your victim a wuss. If this was bullying, than the Wussification of America is real.

Bullying is a serious issue. Not to be confused with this crud that you insist upon calling bullying. You are essentially boiling bullying down to name-calling, which is inaccurate, and frankly a slap in the face to anyone who ever has been bullied for real.

ETA: You have referred to Johnny as a victim no less than 30 times in this thread. Are you seriously claiming that you havent? Unbelievable. Yes, your favorite "victim" expressed his rights as well, only he abused them when he falsely accused his best friend of doing something that he didnt do, which resulted in an unjust 8 game suspension and potential career ender. His BEST FRIEND. Thats your boy.

 

[KCitons]

How do we know that anyone actually landed on the moon? How do we know that dinosaurs coudlnt speak Spanish and Swahilli fluently? How do we know that Jonathan Martin isnt actually an alien from the galaxy Kantblok, and the planet N-E-1?


At some point, common sense must prevail.

Right, or we could just wait for facts.

What did you gain by calling Martin a wuss 4 months ago?

Why do you care what I gained? I expressed my opinion, as did you that he was a "victim". I gained confirmation of my right to exercise my freedom of expression.

You expressed your opinion by labeling a person in a negative way. Bully attitude from the beginning.

I didn't label Martin as a victim. He said he was a victim, I just listened.

I guess Martin exercised his rights too.

You have referred to me as a closed-minded knuckle dragger. Is that a positive light in your code? How about when you accused me of encouraging my 10 year old son to participate in violent, criminal activities? Was that you being positive?

The term bullying has taken on a completely new meaning because of this incident. Now, referring to someone as weak is "bullying"? That is all part of what I referenced as the Wussification of America, which you (in typical fashion) in turn interpreted as me calling your victim a wuss. If this was bullying, than the Wussification of America is real.

Bullying is a serious issue. Not to be confused with this crud that you insist upon calling bullying. You are essentially boiling bullying down to name-calling, which is inaccurate, and frankly a slap in the face to anyone who ever has been bullied for real.

ETA: You have referred to Johnny as a victim no less than 30 times in this thread. Are you seriously claiming that you havent? Unbelievable. Yes, your favorite "victim" expressed his rights as well, only he abused them when he falsely accused his best friend of doing something that he didnt do, which resulted in an unjust 8 game suspension and potential career ender. His BEST FRIEND. Thats your boy.

Ever heard of something called cyber bullying. Kids are committing suicide because of it. If you think that bullying has to be done in person, and in a physical form, you are are the one the is slapping people in the face.

I said Martin was victim. But, I didn't create that label. I'm pretty sure Martin never called himself a wuss.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

How do we know that anyone actually landed on the moon? How do we know that dinosaurs coudlnt speak Spanish and Swahilli fluently? How do we know that Jonathan Martin isnt actually an alien from the galaxy Kantblok, and the planet N-E-1?


At some point, common sense must prevail.

Right, or we could just wait for facts.

What did you gain by calling Martin a wuss 4 months ago?

Why do you care what I gained? I expressed my opinion, as did you that he was a "victim". I gained confirmation of my right to exercise my freedom of expression.

You expressed your opinion by labeling a person in a negative way. Bully attitude from the beginning.

I didn't label Martin as a victim. He said he was a victim, I just listened.

I guess Martin exercised his rights too.

You have referred to me as a closed-minded knuckle dragger. Is that a positive light in your code? How about when you accused me of encouraging my 10 year old son to participate in violent, criminal activities? Was that you being positive?

The term bullying has taken on a completely new meaning because of this incident. Now, referring to someone as weak is "bullying"? That is all part of what I referenced as the Wussification of America, which you (in typical fashion) in turn interpreted as me calling your victim a wuss. If this was bullying, than the Wussification of America is real.

Bullying is a serious issue. Not to be confused with this crud that you insist upon calling bullying. You are essentially boiling bullying down to name-calling, which is inaccurate, and frankly a slap in the face to anyone who ever has been bullied for real.

ETA: You have referred to Johnny as a victim no less than 30 times in this thread. Are you seriously claiming that you havent? Unbelievable. Yes, your favorite "victim" expressed his rights as well, only he abused them when he falsely accused his best friend of doing something that he didnt do, which resulted in an unjust 8 game suspension and potential career ender. His BEST FRIEND. Thats your boy.

Ever heard of something called cyber bullying. Kids are committing suicide because of it. If you think that bullying has to be done in person, and in a physical form, you are are the one the is slapping people in the face.

I said Martin was victim. But, I didn't create that label. I'm pretty sure Martin never called himself a wuss.

I think cyber bullying probably consists of more than calling someone a wuss. In fact, repeatedly calling someone a closed-minded knuckle dragger and falsely accusing them of encouraging violence from their 10 year old sons is probably closer...but I am not trying to call it bullying of any kind because that would belittle what real bullying is. What Jonathan Martin, and you have done, is diminish the true significance of what real bullying is, by lumping it in with simple name calling....thus wussifying America.

You are essentially accusing me of bully-like behavior for calling someone who is not even listening to me a wuss (which I dont think I even did, but that doesnt mean I dont believe it). How can I bully someone who isnt even listening to me or know that I exist? Cyber bullying (while I claim no expertise) probably consists of ongoing harassment, and relentless insults. Not calling someone who acted in public forum like a wuss, a wuss.

But you go ahead and spin away, and wussify America along the way.

 

[KCitons]

Bullying is a serious issue. Not to be confused with this crud that you insist upon calling bullying. You are essentially boiling bullying down to name-calling, which is inaccurate, and frankly a slap in the face to anyone who ever has been bullied for real.

Ever heard of something called cyber bullying. Kids are committing suicide because of it. If you think that bullying has to be done in person, and in a physical form, you are are the one the is slapping people in the face.

I said Martin was victim. But, I didn't create that label. I'm pretty sure Martin never called himself a wuss.

I think cyber bullying probably consists of more than calling someone a wuss. In fact, repeatedly calling someone a closed-minded knuckle dragger and falsely accusing them of encouraging violence from their 10 year old sons is probably closer...but I am not trying to call it bullying of any kind because that would belittle what real bullying is. What Jonathan Martin, and you have done, is diminish the true significance of what real bullying is, by lumping it in with simple name calling....thus wussifying America.

You are essentially accusing me of bully-like behavior for calling someone who is not even listening to me a wuss (which I dont think I even did, but that doesnt mean I dont believe it). How can I bully someone who isnt even listening to me or know that I exist? Cyber bullying (while I claim no expertise) probably consists of ongoing harassment, and relentless insults. Not calling someone who acted in public forum like a wuss, a wuss.

But you go ahead and spin away, and wussify America along the way.

Read the bolded, you made the claim that bullying can't be boiled down to name calling. That's exactly what it is. And, It has to start somewhere.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Bullying is a serious issue. Not to be confused with this crud that you insist upon calling bullying. You are essentially boiling bullying down to name-calling, which is inaccurate, and frankly a slap in the face to anyone who ever has been bullied for real.

Ever heard of something called cyber bullying. Kids are committing suicide because of it. If you think that bullying has to be done in person, and in a physical form, you are are the one the is slapping people in the face.

I said Martin was victim. But, I didn't create that label. I'm pretty sure Martin never called himself a wuss.

I think cyber bullying probably consists of more than calling someone a wuss. In fact, repeatedly calling someone a closed-minded knuckle dragger and falsely accusing them of encouraging violence from their 10 year old sons is probably closer...but I am not trying to call it bullying of any kind because that would belittle what real bullying is. What Jonathan Martin, and you have done, is diminish the true significance of what real bullying is, by lumping it in with simple name calling....thus wussifying America.

You are essentially accusing me of bully-like behavior for calling someone who is not even listening to me a wuss (which I dont think I even did, but that doesnt mean I dont believe it). How can I bully someone who isnt even listening to me or know that I exist? Cyber bullying (while I claim no expertise) probably consists of ongoing harassment, and relentless insults. Not calling someone who acted in public forum like a wuss, a wuss.

But you go ahead and spin away, and wussify America along the way.

Read the bolded, you made the claim that bullying can't be boiled down to name calling. That's exactly what it is. And, It has to start somewhere.

So then are you a bully? If not, how so? You have called me many unsavory names.

 

[KCitons]

YES.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

YES.

Cool. We are all bullies! Anyone who has ever called anyone a name is a bully...so the whole world is a bully! Bully party!

 

[KCitons]

YES.

Cool. We are all bullies! Anyone who has ever called anyone a name is a bully...so the whole world is a bully! Bully party!

Now, we need to understand how our actions effect other people. Some can take it, laugh and move on. Others can't manage it. Until given reason to doubt them, we need to show the latter a little patience.

 

[Timmay]

YES.

Cool. We are all bullies! Anyone who has ever called anyone a name is a bully...so the whole world is a bully! Bully party!

Now, we need to understand how our actions effect other people. Some can take it, laugh and move on. Others can't manage it. Until given reason to doubt them, we need to show the latter a little patience.

The thing about this, is that in those texts, Martin would say similar things to begin with or back to Incognito. That is what doesn't make sense, how can you complain your getting "bullied", if you are guilty of "bullying" yourself. I would agree that Incognito would say more questionable things in those texts, but does that really matter.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

YES.

Cool. We are all bullies! Anyone who has ever called anyone a name is a bully...so the whole world is a bully! Bully party!

Now, we need to understand how our actions effect other people. Some can take it, laugh and move on. Others can't manage it. Until given reason to doubt them, we need to show the latter a little patience.

You are like an after-school special from the 80s.

 

[KCitons]

YES.

Cool. We are all bullies! Anyone who has ever called anyone a name is a bully...so the whole world is a bully! Bully party!

Now, we need to understand how our actions effect other people. Some can take it, laugh and move on. Others can't manage it. Until given reason to doubt them, we need to show the latter a little patience.

The thing about this, is that in those texts, Martin would say similar things to begin with or back to Incognito. That is what doesn't make sense, how can you complain your getting "bullied", if you are guilty of "bullying" yourself. I would agree that Incognito would say more questionable things in those texts, but does that really matter.

Absolutely. But, we won't know where the blame falls until we have all the facts. I mentioned a long time ago that Martin may be bipolar. (yes, I know it doesn't excuse his actions) But, if Martin and Incognito were best buddies and it's determined that Martin has a mental health issue, do you think Richie will have the same hatred as some of the fans?

One of three things will happen with Martin.

1) either he was bullied on some level. (and a percentage of people still think he's weak)

2) he was upset about losing his starting job and was looking for a scapegoat (and a payday)

3) he has a mental problem and needs help.

in 2 of those three scenarios he had no control of his situation.

YES.

Cool. We are all bullies! Anyone who has ever called anyone a name is a bully...so the whole world is a bully! Bully party!

Now, we need to understand how our actions effect other people. Some can take it, laugh and move on. Others can't manage it. Until given reason to doubt them, we need to show the latter a little patience.

You are like an after-school special from the 80s.

I will take that as a compliment. I'm a wuss and I'm ok with that.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

YES.

Cool. We are all bullies! Anyone who has ever called anyone a name is a bully...so the whole world is a bully! Bully party!

Now, we need to understand how our actions effect other people. Some can take it, laugh and move on. Others can't manage it. Until given reason to doubt them, we need to show the latter a little patience.

The thing about this, is that in those texts, Martin would say similar things to begin with or back to Incognito. That is what doesn't make sense, how can you complain your getting "bullied", if you are guilty of "bullying" yourself. I would agree that Incognito would say more questionable things in those texts, but does that really matter.

Absolutely. But, we won't know where the blame falls until we have all the facts. I mentioned a long time ago that Martin may be bipolar. (yes, I know it doesn't excuse his actions) But, if Martin and Incognito were best buddies and it's determined that Martin has a mental health issue, do you think Richie will have the same hatred as some of the fans?

One of three things will happen with Martin.

1) either he was bullied on some level. (and a percentage of people still think he's weak)

2) he was upset about losing his starting job and was looking for a scapegoat (and a payday)

3) he has a mental problem and needs help.

in 2 of those three scenarios he had no control of his situation.

YES.

Cool. We are all bullies! Anyone who has ever called anyone a name is a bully...so the whole world is a bully! Bully party!

Now, we need to understand how our actions effect other people. Some can take it, laugh and move on. Others can't manage it. Until given reason to doubt them, we need to show the latter a little patience.

You are like an after-school special from the 80s.

I will take that as a compliment. I'm a wuss and I'm ok with that.

It wasnt meant as a not-compliment. Just an observation. I appreciate all of the valuable lessons about life that you teach us on a daily basis.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

YES.

Cool. We are all bullies! Anyone who has ever called anyone a name is a bully...so the whole world is a bully! Bully party!

Now, we need to understand how our actions effect other people. Some can take it, laugh and move on. Others can't manage it. Until given reason to doubt them, we need to show the latter a little patience.

The thing about this, is that in those texts, Martin would say similar things to begin with or back to Incognito. That is what doesn't make sense, how can you complain your getting "bullied", if you are guilty of "bullying" yourself. I would agree that Incognito would say more questionable things in those texts, but does that really matter.

Absolutely. But, we won't know where the blame falls until we have all the facts. I mentioned a long time ago that Martin may be bipolar. (yes, I know it doesn't excuse his actions) But, if Martin and Incognito were best buddies and it's determined that Martin has a mental health issue, do you think Richie will have the same hatred as some of the fans?

One of three things will happen with Martin.

1) either he was bullied on some level. (and a percentage of people still think he's weak)

2) he was upset about losing his starting job and was looking for a scapegoat (and a payday)

3) he has a mental problem and needs help.

in 2 of those three scenarios he had no control of his situation.

YES.

Cool. We are all bullies! Anyone who has ever called anyone a name is a bully...so the whole world is a bully! Bully party!

Now, we need to understand how our actions effect other people. Some can take it, laugh and move on. Others can't manage it. Until given reason to doubt them, we need to show the latter a little patience.

You are like an after-school special from the 80s.

I will take that as a compliment. I'm a wuss and I'm ok with that.

By the way, if it turns out that Martin is bipolar, or any type of mentally ill, I can tell you at least from me, no hate. I would feel sorry for him, and all of those who have been impacted by his disease, and hope that he gets all the help available to him - and that those who have been impacted are also made whole.

You make a huge assumption with no basis when you state that the fans would still hate him if he proves to be sick.

And, in your example 1, he has plenty of control over how this has been handled. If you say that name calling is on some level bullying, and that is what has happened, he didnt exactly handle it like a professional...or an adult...or even a mentally healthy human.

 

[KCitons]

More from NBC sports.

Per a league source, not all of the texts exchanged between the two men were leaked to The Big Lead. Also, text messages involving others weren’t released.

Moreover, evidence of the relationship between the two men comes from plenty of sources other than text messages. Phone calls, face-to-face verbal exchanges, and other interactions help paint the full picture. For example, it wasn’t a text message but a voice message with racist, hostile content from Incognito to Martin that presumably prompted the Dolphins to suspend Incognito for conduct detrimental to the team.

Dolphins should have dug deeper, if the voice message was the only reason to suspend him.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

More from NBC sports.

Per a league source, not all of the texts exchanged between the two men were leaked to The Big Lead. Also, text messages involving others weren’t released.

Moreover, evidence of the relationship between the two men comes from plenty of sources other than text messages. Phone calls, face-to-face verbal exchanges, and other interactions help paint the full picture. For example, it wasn’t a text message but a voice message with racist, hostile content from Incognito to Martin that presumably prompted the Dolphins to suspend Incognito for conduct detrimental to the team.

Dolphins should have dug deeper, if the voice message was the only reason to suspend him.

On this, you and I agree. They are a horribly run organization from top to bottom. No surprise that they blew it on this one too, although maybe he had been told that after the golf course incident he had run out of benefit of the doubt - in which case maybe its not as egregious. Still opens them up for a lawsuit though, I would think.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The irony of Incognito becoming the victim and suing the Miami Dolphins is pretty rich.

 

[Doug B]

Still opens them up for a lawsuit though, I would think.

Hard to imagine Incognito really wants to get on the stand and have his personal life and whatever demons he's got laid bare to the public. But then, if his career never really gets traction again ... maybe he'll feel that he's got nothing to lose.

Question: at Incognito's age (31, right?) was he realistically in line for one more decent pro contract (not necessarily a huge one)? He may well have been, but I don't know anything about his current contract situation and whatnot. Anyway, if he can go to court and credibly argue that he had another contract coming until Martin trashed his rep, that could have legs. Looks like Incognito will have to swallow hard to go through with it, though.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Still opens them up for a lawsuit though, I would think.

Hard to imagine Incognito really wants to get on the stand and have his personal life and whatever demons he's got laid bare to the public. But then, if his career never really gets traction again ... maybe he'll feel that he's got nothing to lose.

Question: at Incognito's age (31, right?) was he realistically in line for one more decent pro contract (not necessarily a huge one)? He may well have been, but I don't know anything about his current contract situation and whatnot. Anyway, if he can go to court and credibly argue that he had another contract coming until Martin trashed his rep, that could have legs. Looks like Incognito will have to swallow hard to go through with it, though.

I'd be shocked if this went that far. Martin wants a payday and the NFL and Miami make enough to make him go away. This was the end-game all along. He's done with football and this is his last chance at money.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Still opens them up for a lawsuit though, I would think.

Hard to imagine Incognito really wants to get on the stand and have his personal life and whatever demons he's got laid bare to the public. But then, if his career never really gets traction again ... maybe he'll feel that he's got nothing to lose.

Question: at Incognito's age (31, right?) was he realistically in line for one more decent pro contract (not necessarily a huge one)? He may well have been, but I don't know anything about his current contract situation and whatnot. Anyway, if he can go to court and credibly argue that he had another contract coming until Martin trashed his rep, that could have legs. Looks like Incognito will have to swallow hard to go through with it, though.

He was a pro bowl player last year, and was having a decent year this year. As bad as the OLs are across the NFL right now, I bet he did have another nice payday. He still might after all is said and done. I suspect that he will.

 

[Smack Tripper]

The irony of Incognito becoming the victim and suing the Miami Dolphins is pretty rich.

Do you think he got due process?

 

[wazoo11]

How long until it's leaked there was a love triangle angle?

 

[Bob Magaw]

More from NBC sports.

Per a league source, not all of the texts exchanged between the two men were leaked to The Big Lead. Also, text messages involving others werent released.

Moreover, evidence of the relationship between the two men comes from plenty of sources other than text messages. Phone calls, face-to-face verbal exchanges, and other interactions help paint the full picture. For example, it wasnt a text message but a voice message with racist, hostile content from Incognito to Martin that presumably prompted the Dolphins to suspend Incognito for conduct detrimental to the team.

Dolphins should have dug deeper, if the voice message was the only reason to suspend him.

On this, you and I agree. They are a horribly run organization from top to bottom. No surprise that they blew it on this one too, although maybe he had been told that after the golf course incident he had run out of benefit of the doubt - in which case maybe its not as egregious. Still opens them up for a lawsuit though, I would think.

I thought since the golf course incident and possible employee harassment instances were made public this could complicate a potential suit against the team/league by Incognito, at the least.

Earlier there was an allegation that Martin was physically assaulted at a home (Pouncey's?), but maybe that was exaggerated or fabricated. Could be impossible to know one way or the other let alone prove without witness cooperation in the investigation.

My theory why Martin slammed the cafeteria tray down and stormed out is that it was some appallingly bad Salisbury steak.

Flaky for Ross to announce a vet leadership committee and never follow up. Also, speaking purely of football, the serial half measures of firing an earlier HC but not the GM, than the GM but not the HC (after presiding over the cluster), meanwhile leaving intact a convoluted front office structure with Dawn Aponte that makes the GM gig radioactive.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The irony of Incognito becoming the victim and suing the Miami Dolphins is pretty rich.

Do you think he got due process?

I know he's a major league dbag off the field but I don't think he was really an extra special bully to Martin. Perfect Storm of thin skin Martin and loudmouth Richie, add in social media, Adam Schefter, and everyone wanting the scoop to cast judgement immediately, and this is the outcome.

 

[johnadams]

The irony of Incognito becoming the victim and suing the Miami Dolphins is pretty rich.

Do you think he got due process?

I know he's a major league dbag off the field but I don't think he was really an extra special bully to Martin. Perfect Storm of thin skin Martin and loudmouth Richie, add in social media, Adam Schefter, and everyone wanting the scoop to cast judgement immediately, and this is the outcome.

Throw in all of the very in your face anti-bullying campaigns across every school district in the US. I understand it, but there's a part of me that thinks being on the wrong end of a bully a few times is a character builder. But I'm sure that's already been said. Just too lazy to read 84 pages.

 

[fatness]

The irony of Incognito becoming the victim and suing the Miami Dolphins is pretty rich.

And fanciful on the part of message board posters.

He wants a team in the league, any team, to hire him. He's not going to sue another team in the league.

 

[TheMagus]

Wow, just finished the texts. They were great friends. And I actually felt bad for Incognito with those last few texts.

Bizarre situation. Martin has a TON of explaining to do.

The last few texts make my stomach sink a little knowing what followed. The one where he wrote that he needed help because the Dolphins were talking about cutting him. Ouch.

 

[KCitons]

Incognito taking the high road?

This kind of contradicts the mud slinging of releasing the texts. Maybe Richie wants Martin to return to the NFL, so he can sue for more money. Or, maybe he realizes that Martin is not in his right mind and this has more to do than just football.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Incognito taking the high road?

This kind of contradicts the mud slinging of releasing the texts. Maybe Richie wants Martin to return to the NFL, so he can sue for more money. Or, maybe he realizes that Martin is not in his right mind and this has more to do than just football.

I think releasing the texts was not an offensive strategy, but rather a defensive one. I dont think he was slinging mud, I think he was demonstrating that he is innocent of what he has been accused of. he is about to be a free agent, and would probably like to resume his promising career. I am not sure how you interpreted it as mud slinging.

 

[Hang 10]

Still opens them up for a lawsuit though, I would think.

Hard to imagine Incognito really wants to get on the stand and have his personal life and whatever demons he's got laid bare to the public. But then, if his career never really gets traction again ... maybe he'll feel that he's got nothing to lose.

Question: at Incognito's age (31, right?) was he realistically in line for one more decent pro contract (not necessarily a huge one)? He may well have been, but I don't know anything about his current contract situation and whatnot. Anyway, if he can go to court and credibly argue that he had another contract coming until Martin trashed his rep, that could have legs. Looks like Incognito will have to swallow hard to go through with it, though.

Doubt Incognito would have to take the stand. Pretty sure the phins would want to settle this one out of court to avoid further embarrassment.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Wow, just finished the texts. They were great friends. And I actually felt bad for Incognito with those last few texts.

Bizarre situation. Martin has a TON of explaining to do.

The last few texts make my stomach sink a little knowing what followed. The one where he wrote that he needed help because the Dolphins were talking about cutting him. Ouch.

Your stomach sunk? Wow. I felt great knowing that a psychopath that avoided any sort of punishment for his lifelong resume of abusing people finally caught up with him.

 

[Doug B]

Flaky for Ross to announce a vet leadership committee and never follow up.

Meh, PETA messed it all up by insisting on monitoring the treatment of the dogs and ponies involved.

 

[Doug B]

A point made earlier and generally agreed to upthread:

The league has to feel like it pretty much dodged a big bullet here. The next Jonathan Martin might have a nuch cleaner house and a much better civil case. There's a general liability opening in the locker-room ... not necessarily easy to exploit, but preent nonetheless..

 

[MoveToSkypager]

A point made earlier and generally agreed to upthread:

The league has to feel like it pretty much dodged a big bullet here. The next Jonathan Martin might have a nuch cleaner house and a much better civil case. There's a general liability opening in the locker-room ... not necessarily easy to exploit, but preent nonetheless..

There might not be another Martin if not for his dirty house. I think his motivations stemmed from his situation. Without the latter, you aren't getting the former.

 

[Doug B]

There might not be another Martin if not for his dirty house. I think his motivations stemmed from his situation. Without the latter, you aren't getting the former.

A not-particularly-similar situation could be a player that, simultaneously (a) poorly treated in the locker-room for being vaguel "different" (eschewing 'boys' nights', Vegas trips, strip clubs, etc.), and (b) is actually a closeted homosexual player that intends to come out publicly in the near future.

Such a player might draw from the details of the Jonathan Martin non-case, and resolve to stab back at his locker-room tormentors at the same time he comes out publicly. The motivation would be both revenge and financial gain via out-of-court settlement. Anyway, this hypothetical player would know not to exchange texts or interract socially with the offending teammate(s), would keep his own house clean, and would document-document-document all locker-room offenses and discussions with coaches & executives for maybe two seasons or so.

IOW, others down the road can learn from Martin how NOT to build a case against a player or a team or even The Shield itself.

 

[KCitons]

There might not be another Martin if not for his dirty house. I think his motivations stemmed from his situation. Without the latter, you aren't getting the former.

A not-particularly-similar situation could be a player that, simultaneously (a) poorly treated in the locker-room for being vaguel "different" (eschewing 'boys' nights', Vegas trips, strip clubs, etc.), and (b) is actually a closeted homosexual player that intends to come out publicly in the near future.

Such a player might draw from the details of the Jonathan Martin non-case, and resolve to stab back at his locker-room tormentors at the same time he comes out publicly. The motivation would be both revenge and financial gain via out-of-court settlement. Anyway, this hypothetical player would know not to exchange texts or interract socially with the offending teammate(s), would keep his own house clean, and would document-document-document all locker-room offenses and discussions with coaches & executives for maybe two seasons or so.

IOW, others down the road can learn from Martin how NOT to build a case against a player or a team or even The Shield itself.

Agreed. Also, others down the road can learn from Aaron Hernandez on how NOT to murder people.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I would like to change my vote to kcitons. Just wow.

 

[Doug B]

Agreed. Also, others down the road can learn from Aaron Hernandez on how NOT to murder people.

I'm honestly lost on your point -- are you saying Jonathan-Martin-type cases are such preposterous, poorly-supported long-shots that no real threat to the league's pocketbook has been exposed?

 

[KCitons]

What vote mobbin?

Doug, I was just making a joke in regards to things future players can learn from veterans.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

What vote mobbin?

Doug, I was just making a joke in regards to things future players can learn from veterans.

The very best jokes are the ones that nobody gets, so you get to explain them.

 

[Doug B]

Doug, I was just making a joke in regards to things future players can learn from veterans.

That's what I originally thought, but steadymobbin's post gave me pause.

...

Funny you mention Aaron Hernandez ... his situation is exactly the kind others shoudl take as instructional. That can take a sinister turn, of course (e.g. Rae Carruth reaching out to third party to commit the murder).

 

[KCitons]

What vote mobbin?

Doug, I was just making a joke in regards to things future players can learn from veterans.

The very best jokes are the ones that nobody gets, so you get to explain them.

yeah, that's what I get for catching up on the AH thread before coming here.

maybe it was my delivery.

 

[fatness]

Agreed. Also, others down the road can learn from Aaron Hernandez on how NOT to murder people.

I'm honestly lost on your point -- are you saying Jonathan-Martin-type cases are such preposterous, poorly-supported long-shots that no real threat to the league's pocketbook has been exposed?

Since it has happened 0 times so far I'll go with "no real threat to the league's pocketbook".

The idea that Martin was/is planning to sue the league has been nothing but speculation, mostly by those who are angry at him (and his mother, for being a lawyer).

 

[Doug B]

Since it has happened 0 times so far I'll go with "no real threat to the league's pocketbook".

The idea that Martin was/is planning to sue the league has been nothing but speculation, mostly by those who are angry at him (and his mother, for being a lawyer).

I wasn't referring to Jonathan Martin suing the league, though. Thinking of a potential someone down the road with some comparable beefs but also some other crucially different circumstances.

And my use of "the league" was sloppily broad -- read that as "a team, or a coach, or another player, or maybe the league itself".

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Agreed. Also, others down the road can learn from Aaron Hernandez on how NOT to murder people.

I'm honestly lost on your point -- are you saying Jonathan-Martin-type cases are such preposterous, poorly-supported long-shots that no real threat to the league's pocketbook has been exposed?

Since it has happened 0 times so far I'll go with "no real threat to the league's pocketbook".

The idea that Martin was/is planning to sue the league has been nothing but speculation, mostly by those who are angry at him (and his mother, for being a lawyer).

And any sane person with any semblance of common sense.

 

[fatness]

Agreed. Also, others down the road can learn from Aaron Hernandez on how NOT to murder people.

I'm honestly lost on your point -- are you saying Jonathan-Martin-type cases are such preposterous, poorly-supported long-shots that no real threat to the league's pocketbook has been exposed?

Since it has happened 0 times so far I'll go with "no real threat to the league's pocketbook".

The idea that Martin was/is planning to sue the league has been nothing but speculation, mostly by those who are angry at him (and his mother, for being a lawyer).

And any sane person with any semblance of common sense.

Chuck's keeping hope alive.

 

[fatness]

A not-particularly-similar situation could be a player that, simultaneously (a) poorly treated in the locker-room for being vaguel "different" (eschewing 'boys' nights', Vegas trips, strip clubs, etc.), and (b) is actually a closeted homosexual player that intends to come out publicly in the near future.Such a player might draw from the details of the Jonathan Martin non-case, and resolve to stab back at his locker-room tormentors at the same time he comes out publicly. The motivation would be both revenge and financial gain via out-of-court settlement. Anyway, this hypothetical player would know not to exchange texts or interract socially with the offending teammate(s), would keep his own house clean, and would document-document-document all locker-room offenses and discussions with coaches & executives for maybe two seasons or so.

IOW, others down the road can learn from Martin how NOT to build a case against a player or a team or even The Shield itself.

This idea is really kind of silly (not you; the idea). The foundation is the idea that Jonathan Martin was going to sue the Dolphins or the league, which was/is nothing but wishful thinking on the part of some people who are angry at Martin. But there's no lawsuit so that line of thought is starving for evidence.

So taking the speculation even further, the idea is that Martin really was going to sue, but he held up, thereby spelling out a clear way for others to sue.

And that's perfect. Because if Martin doesn't sue it showed others how to do it, and if Martin does sue that shows others how to do it. People angry at Martin are going to fall in love with the theory because either way they get to bash him. All over a suit that as far as we know doesn't and won't exist.

There's an equal reason to believe that otters had this plan to attack human beings, but abandoned the plan at the last moment. And the marmosets and squirrels will use the otters' failed plan to launch their attacks.