ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
So in this fantasy world in which you reside...which I will refer to as blindersvile...why again did Johnny Victim hire an attorney?
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Dolphin Players bullied Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito SUSPENDED (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter KellysHeroes
- Start date
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
I predict the Wells report will confirm everyone's predictions, no matter how different they are.
jackdubl
Footballguy
Well, I started out on Martin's side, because he was a bullying victim. As the story has unfolded this far, however, there has been a noticeable lack of anything that looks like bullying taking place. Looks more like a sensitive guy that couldn't hack it in the uber-testosteroned locker room. I'm waiting for the report for more info.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
James Walker @JamesWalkerNFL 59m
Incognito unhappy with speed of Wells report http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10414567/richie-incognito-miami-dolphins-unhappy-timing-ted-wells-report … via @espnnfl
Incognito unhappy with speed of Wells report http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10414567/richie-incognito-miami-dolphins-unhappy-timing-ted-wells-report … via @espnnfl
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Dave Hyde @davehydesports 2h
Incognito grows impatient, calls out Martin's agent - other interesting tweets. Hyde5 blog: http://fw.to/m9Pohpd
Incognito grows impatient, calls out Martin's agent - other interesting tweets. Hyde5 blog: http://fw.to/m9Pohpd
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Toward Johnnie V's agent? Sure. Deservedly so. I think Richie has been unbelievably supportive of the guy who watched his best friend get rolled under a parade of busses, and never bothered to lean down and pull him out.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Wow. If these text messages are legit, Incognito certainly is a meathead, but I'm not getting the bully vibe here at all. Not to Martin, whom he clearly liked and it seems feelings were mutual on Martin's side.
http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/ritojm2.pdf
http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/ritojm2.pdf
TheMagus
Footballguy
Why would it be mudslinging for expressing his anger over the delay in a report being released - a report which he seems to think will clear him - so his career and livelihood may be salvagable? The longer they delay this, the less likely it becomes that he will be able to earn a living as an NFL player. He's only got 4 weeks until FA opens up.
Native
Footballguy
Here we go...
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO
Dear Jon Martin..... The truth is going to bury you and your entire "camp". You could have told the truth the entire time.
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO 18m
Jon Martin---you started all of this when Kenny Zuckerman released the VM to ESPN. The same VM we joked about with @brianhartline
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO 16m
Kenny Zuckerman from Priority Sports.... What do you have to say for your actions? Why did you release the VM. What was your goal ?
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO 15m
I'm guilty of being a loyal friend and good teammate. I apologize for my poor language and rude remarks. I've never denied it.
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO 12m
I apologize to all of the women out there that I offended with my text messages to my close personal friend.
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO 5m
FACT: Jonathan Martin told me he thought about taking his own life in MAY 2013 b/c he wasn't playing well. Told me he felt worthless.
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO
Dear Jon Martin..... The truth is going to bury you and your entire "camp". You could have told the truth the entire time.
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO 18m
Jon Martin---you started all of this when Kenny Zuckerman released the VM to ESPN. The same VM we joked about with @brianhartline
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO 16m
Kenny Zuckerman from Priority Sports.... What do you have to say for your actions? Why did you release the VM. What was your goal ?
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO 15m
I'm guilty of being a loyal friend and good teammate. I apologize for my poor language and rude remarks. I've never denied it.
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO 12m
I apologize to all of the women out there that I offended with my text messages to my close personal friend.
Richie Incognito @68INCOGNITO 5m
FACT: Jonathan Martin told me he thought about taking his own life in MAY 2013 b/c he wasn't playing well. Told me he felt worthless.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Dude should lock his twitter account when he drinks.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
By Omar KellySun Sentinel3:29 p.m. EST, February 12, 2014
Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Richie Incognito has reached his breaking point as he impatiently awaits the outcome of the NFL’s independent investigation, which he's the focus of.
When asked by the Sun-Sentinel if he’s ready for Ted Wells to submit and publish his report on the Dolphins’ locker room culture, which allegedly motivated fellow teammate Jonathan Martin to quit the team back in October, and made Incognito the face of bullying in America, Incognito used twitter to vent.
“They don't tell me anything. It's just my entire life hanging in the balance. No rush,” Incognito wrote on his twitter account. “This should have been over before it even started. False allegations and lies have kept this going.”
Incognito claimed Martin’s agent, Kenny Zuckerman, threw him under the bus, using Incognito’s behavior as the reason why Martin left team following a locker room prank that was played on him the Monday after Miami's 27-17 road loss to the New England Patriots, a game in which Martin struggled.
Incognito alleges that the workplace harassment claims came from Zuckerman, who was trying to protect Martin’s signing bonus, which the Dolphins could still pursue if the 2012 second-round pick doesn’t return to the team.
Martin missed the final nine games of the season. He was eventually played in injured reserve after spending a month on the active roster. Incognito, the Dolphins' starting left tackle since 2010, missed the final eight games of 2013 because of an NFL suspension he agreed to. Incognito did receive six of his eight paychecks during his absence after agreeing to not fight his suspension through the NFLPA.
"I'm ready to move on with my life and career. I've been dragged through the mud for months by my 'best friend,’” Incognito wrote. “Dear [Jonathan] Martin..... The truth is going to bury you and your entire 'camp'. You could have told the truth the entire time.
Top 25 players in Miami Heat history
"You started all of this when Kenny Zuckerman released the [voice-mail] to ESPN. The same [voice-mail] we joked about with [Dolphins receiver Brian Hartline].”
Incognito is referring to a racially insensitive voice-mail Incognito left Martin in April, which featured him using the N-word to describe Martin, and included Incognito making threats to Martin’s family.
Hartline has acknowledged that Martin played the voice-mail as a joke directed at Incognito inside the Dolphins' locker room.
Incognito and his camp claim he and Martin were friends, admitted that they routinely talked to each other using vile and inappropriate language. They have released more than 1,000 text messages the pair shared to back up those claims.
“I'm guilty of being a loyal friend and good teammate. I apologize for my poor language and rude remarks. I've never denied it,” Incognito tweeted. “I apologize to all of the women out there that I offended with my text messages to my close personal friend.
“FACT: Jonathan Martin told me he thought about taking his own life in MAY 2013 [because] he wasn't playing well. Told me he felt worthless.”
Incognito is a free agent searching for a new team. Martin will either traded or released by the Dolphins this offseason.
The NFL's independent investigation will be submitted to the league in the coming days. Dolphins owner Steve Ross has spoken to Wells about the report and doesn't seem too concerned about what will be in it. Earlier this month Ross praised his organization for how it handled the media-driven crisis, which sideswiped Miami's 8-8 season.
Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Richie Incognito has reached his breaking point as he impatiently awaits the outcome of the NFL’s independent investigation, which he's the focus of.
When asked by the Sun-Sentinel if he’s ready for Ted Wells to submit and publish his report on the Dolphins’ locker room culture, which allegedly motivated fellow teammate Jonathan Martin to quit the team back in October, and made Incognito the face of bullying in America, Incognito used twitter to vent.
“They don't tell me anything. It's just my entire life hanging in the balance. No rush,” Incognito wrote on his twitter account. “This should have been over before it even started. False allegations and lies have kept this going.”
Incognito claimed Martin’s agent, Kenny Zuckerman, threw him under the bus, using Incognito’s behavior as the reason why Martin left team following a locker room prank that was played on him the Monday after Miami's 27-17 road loss to the New England Patriots, a game in which Martin struggled.
Incognito alleges that the workplace harassment claims came from Zuckerman, who was trying to protect Martin’s signing bonus, which the Dolphins could still pursue if the 2012 second-round pick doesn’t return to the team.
Martin missed the final nine games of the season. He was eventually played in injured reserve after spending a month on the active roster. Incognito, the Dolphins' starting left tackle since 2010, missed the final eight games of 2013 because of an NFL suspension he agreed to. Incognito did receive six of his eight paychecks during his absence after agreeing to not fight his suspension through the NFLPA.
"I'm ready to move on with my life and career. I've been dragged through the mud for months by my 'best friend,’” Incognito wrote. “Dear [Jonathan] Martin..... The truth is going to bury you and your entire 'camp'. You could have told the truth the entire time.
Top 25 players in Miami Heat history
"You started all of this when Kenny Zuckerman released the [voice-mail] to ESPN. The same [voice-mail] we joked about with [Dolphins receiver Brian Hartline].”
Incognito is referring to a racially insensitive voice-mail Incognito left Martin in April, which featured him using the N-word to describe Martin, and included Incognito making threats to Martin’s family.
Hartline has acknowledged that Martin played the voice-mail as a joke directed at Incognito inside the Dolphins' locker room.
Incognito and his camp claim he and Martin were friends, admitted that they routinely talked to each other using vile and inappropriate language. They have released more than 1,000 text messages the pair shared to back up those claims.
“I'm guilty of being a loyal friend and good teammate. I apologize for my poor language and rude remarks. I've never denied it,” Incognito tweeted. “I apologize to all of the women out there that I offended with my text messages to my close personal friend.
“FACT: Jonathan Martin told me he thought about taking his own life in MAY 2013 [because] he wasn't playing well. Told me he felt worthless.”
Incognito is a free agent searching for a new team. Martin will either traded or released by the Dolphins this offseason.
The NFL's independent investigation will be submitted to the league in the coming days. Dolphins owner Steve Ross has spoken to Wells about the report and doesn't seem too concerned about what will be in it. Earlier this month Ross praised his organization for how it handled the media-driven crisis, which sideswiped Miami's 8-8 season.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I have absolutely no anger in this whole issue and think it is a very real possibility that Martin knew he couldn't cut it in the NFL and is using this matter as the basis of a future lawsuit.
I'm not saying that this is what is happening, but rather that it is certainly reasonable to not be angry at Martin and still consider it a possible motivation, and further that it is not irrational to consider that possibility.
I'm not saying that this is what is happening, but rather that it is certainly reasonable to not be angry at Martin and still consider it a possible motivation, and further that it is not irrational to consider that possibility.
RUSF18
Footballguy
Incognito got a lot of people back on his side after all those texts came out. I'm sure it's really hard with how he feels like he's been treated, but he should have kept his mouth shut a little longer. That last tweet telling the world about Martin considering suicide in the past is going to lose a lot of what he had going for him.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Clearly Martin could have handled things better, as more details emerged. Didn't go to the HC.
He did say when he called friends in the league, the personal comments about family weren't the norm, and other players around the league confirmed this. I've consistently said, regardless of what comes to light with Martin, things like the golf incident (we haven't talked about that much lately) make Incognito an unsympathetic character. That could also complicate a law suit against the team or league. Even if the alleged assault victim was paid to not talk, that wouldn't bind other possible team employee witnesses.
I thought I just read recently that Incognito wanted to put this behind him. If so, dragging this through the mud again isn't a good way to do that. He has also said positive and supportive things about Martin recently, than this contradictory set of messages just makes him look more unstable and less appealing to resume his career for some teams.
* edit/add - I doubt his agent is advising him to do this (if so, bad advice). This just furthers the perception he is a hotheaded loose cannon, and serves to remind the rest of the league he has been an embarrassment and PR nightmare on virtually every stop in his career dating back to college.
He did say when he called friends in the league, the personal comments about family weren't the norm, and other players around the league confirmed this. I've consistently said, regardless of what comes to light with Martin, things like the golf incident (we haven't talked about that much lately) make Incognito an unsympathetic character. That could also complicate a law suit against the team or league. Even if the alleged assault victim was paid to not talk, that wouldn't bind other possible team employee witnesses.
I thought I just read recently that Incognito wanted to put this behind him. If so, dragging this through the mud again isn't a good way to do that. He has also said positive and supportive things about Martin recently, than this contradictory set of messages just makes him look more unstable and less appealing to resume his career for some teams.
* edit/add - I doubt his agent is advising him to do this (if so, bad advice). This just furthers the perception he is a hotheaded loose cannon, and serves to remind the rest of the league he has been an embarrassment and PR nightmare on virtually every stop in his career dating back to college.
Last edited by a moderator:
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Does this mean he doesn't apologize to all the women out there that he offended when he threatened to rape a woman for reporting a teammate raping her?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
It means you say things to close friends, sometimes joking, that would be rude, vile, and crass in any other circumstances.
Well, maybe you don't but most of the guys I know including me have.
fatness
Footballguy
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Strange sense if humor if you find that funny. It appears to the rest of the sane portion of the world to be 100% true.fatness said:Native said:
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
So he doesn't apologize for that? He probably should lead off with that.Bronco Billy said:
fatness
Footballguy
First thing out of the mouth of a kid in trouble: "He started it!" while pointing at someone else.Strange sense if humor if you find that funny. It appears to the rest of the sane portion of the world to be 100% true.fatness said:Native said:
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
I wish the report would hurry up and get released. I don't think it's going to settle anything in this thread, but at least it will start moving things in the real NFL. A criminally insane person like Incognito doesn't deserve closure on anything, but Martin certainly deserves to get an answer from the NFL and Dolphins soon. The biggest victim here is the unidentified player/players that get financially hazed to the point of being broke. Let's not forget them. That's the stuff that needs to end immediately.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
First thing a kid does when he sucks at playing a sport is picks up his ball and runs home to his mommy and blames other kids.First thing out of the mouth of a kid in trouble: "He started it!" while pointing at someone else.Strange sense if humor if you find that funny. It appears to the rest of the sane portion of the world to be 100% true.fatness said:Native said:
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
its turning into what I thought its going to be, both men have been acting childish. Whoever started it doesn't matter anymore, its such a black eye that both men are going to have to walk away from the NFL.
KCitons
Footballguy
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Yes. This looks like mutually assured destruction so far. It's possible that Martin could allow himself to look bad for the benefit of others.
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
What answer does Martin need to receive from the NFL? Players and coaches for the Dolphins know what happened and whatever the report says isn't going to surprise Martin. They were friends, Incognito sent a lot of very distasteful remarks and messages and Martin decided to call it bullying and needed to leave the lockeroom. I can't see Martin or Incognito going back to play for them no matter what the report says.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
If you all recall I made a big point to show that Martin looked like a giggling school girl walking into that meeting with Wells and when he left the building he didn't look nearly as happy. I think he knew the 1st time he sat down to cry to the lawyers and present his story, he must have felt so stupid walking out of that building. I believe he knew right then this was not gonna go how he was hoping.
All that said, I think Martin suffers from mental instability, I use that as just a loose term because I don't make fun of folks who suffer mental disorders, it's hard to understand what folks go thru. But just because he suffers from that is not a license to go out and wreck careers, locker rooms, organizations over it.
None of what has happened this week is new. Incognito showed his stripes again by taking to Twitter, his best move was to keep his mouth shut. He won't look good no matter if Wells' report says Martin is bonafide looney tunes(which I doubt it will). Both of them are immature and don't belong on an NFL roster but Incognito can actually play and start for probably half the NFL. Look at the holes he will leave behind in Miami…he can't come back here but he's better than anything Miami will be fielding next year, that's for sure.
All this is boring at this point. Martin will never play for Miami or any team IMO, Incognito not coming back either, who really cares about this anymore? Honestly except for the doosh bags who wanted to try and tear an entire organization apart thru social media this is just the same stupid stuff we read 3 months ago. Nothing has changed.
All that said, I think Martin suffers from mental instability, I use that as just a loose term because I don't make fun of folks who suffer mental disorders, it's hard to understand what folks go thru. But just because he suffers from that is not a license to go out and wreck careers, locker rooms, organizations over it.
None of what has happened this week is new. Incognito showed his stripes again by taking to Twitter, his best move was to keep his mouth shut. He won't look good no matter if Wells' report says Martin is bonafide looney tunes(which I doubt it will). Both of them are immature and don't belong on an NFL roster but Incognito can actually play and start for probably half the NFL. Look at the holes he will leave behind in Miami…he can't come back here but he's better than anything Miami will be fielding next year, that's for sure.
All this is boring at this point. Martin will never play for Miami or any team IMO, Incognito not coming back either, who really cares about this anymore? Honestly except for the doosh bags who wanted to try and tear an entire organization apart thru social media this is just the same stupid stuff we read 3 months ago. Nothing has changed.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Another possible interpretation of his changed demeanor is that being grilled all day and having to rehash very distasteful and objectionable remarks about raping family members may have been sobering, to say the least.
I never expected him to be doing somersaults and back flips when he concluded.
I never expected him to be doing somersaults and back flips when he concluded.
Last edited by a moderator:
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Wouldn't you like to be told you are right or wrong by a neutral party when you are in some kind of disagreement? I think most people would. Martin deserves to be told he was right or full of crap in some respect.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
And threatens to kill himselfFirst thing a kid does when he sucks at playing a sport is picks up his ball and runs home to his mommy and blames other kids.First thing out of the mouth of a kid in trouble: "He started it!" while pointing at someone else.Strange sense if humor if you find that funny. It appears to the rest of the sane portion of the world to be 100% true.fatness said:Native said:
KCitons
Footballguy
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
My point is that I think Martin already knows the answer to that and isn't waiting to hear the report. He couldn't handle how he was treated in the lockeroom and then tried to find a way out through lawyers instead of dealing with it internally.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
According to Incognito and his dad. They're certainly solid, reliable people.And threatens to kill himselfFirst thing a kid does when he sucks at playing a sport is picks up his ball and runs home to his mommy and blames other kids.First thing out of the mouth of a kid in trouble: "He started it!" while pointing at someone else.Strange sense if humor if you find that funny. It appears to the rest of the sane portion of the world to be 100% true.fatness said:Native said:
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
I'm not sure what you mean by "those people". I didn't say whether I agreed or not with how Martin handled it all I'm saying is that he was treated a certain way, didn't like it at some point (since apparently he shared a vm with another player while laughing about it) and got a team of lawyers to bring it to light. He knows exactly how he was treated and how he handled it, what does a report from some random third party mean to him? He was the accuser, not the accusee.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Your opinion makes far too much sense for some of the die hard Johnny fans in this thread. Rest assured that most rational people understand where you are coming from and agree with what you are saying. The fan club is like a cult, and they worship Johnny Victim. Anything you say that may be interpreted in any possible way as negative toward Johnny will result in non-creative, demeaning comments that allude to your ignorance, intolerance, and general stupidity for thinking that there is any possible way that Johnny V is not the God of Victimness, and the martyr for all future victims.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Everyone is free to feel what they want but when you looked not his eyes, I saw someone confident and eager entering the building and leaving was a complete 180. And since the first bit of the story coming out again now seems to indicate at best it's equal blame and worst is Martin is mentally unstable, I like my theory better Bob, sorry. But I don't dismiss what you are saying.
Thing is though this was not a rape situation. What exactly was he having to relive? He had to show his hand and he though he had pocket Aces but it looked more like J-10 offsuit after he met Wells. We'll see, I really want this report to be released so we can all agree that Richie is a jerk and Martin unstable. Still seems like a perfect storm for all this to come to a head.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
@HubbuchNYP: Mike Pouncey wears "Free Hernandez" hat, is subpoenaed in Hernandez case, then gets buried in the Wells report. Nice year for the young man.
This is interesting. I only started to skim the report, but there are a couple of interesting things.
One is that he was bullied in the past at school. I don't think that possibility had been raised before, but it makes a lot of sense (and also proves that size doesn't necessarily matter, particularly when it comes to verbal bullying).
The other is that the report really is surprisingly consistent with the "perfect storm" scenario I outlined above. For example the following message to his mother on page 14 has the main elements:
I figured out a major source of my anxiety. I’m a push over,
a people pleaser. I avoid confrontation whenever I can, I
always want everyone to like me. I let people talk about
me, say anything to my face, and I just take it, laugh it off,
even when I know they are intentionally trying to
disrespect me. I mostly blame the soft schools I went to,
which fostered within me a feeling that I’m a huge #####,
as I never got into fights. I used to get verbally bullied
every day in middle school and high school, by kids that
are half my size. I would never fight back, just get sad &
feel like no one wanted to be my friend, when in fact I was
just being socially awkward. Most people in that situation
are witty & quick with sarcastic replies, I never have been.
I’m awkward around people a lot of the time because I
simply don’t know how to act around them . . .
He was a people pleaser who wanted to go along to get along. He was awkward and didn't know how to handle it. He had spent most of his life in "civilized" situations. And then he hit Richie and gang and it was a nightmare. His previous mental health issues came back, making him more unstable. The childhood bully collides with the bullied. The perfect storm indeed.
One is that he was bullied in the past at school. I don't think that possibility had been raised before, but it makes a lot of sense (and also proves that size doesn't necessarily matter, particularly when it comes to verbal bullying).
The other is that the report really is surprisingly consistent with the "perfect storm" scenario I outlined above. For example the following message to his mother on page 14 has the main elements:
I figured out a major source of my anxiety. I’m a push over,
a people pleaser. I avoid confrontation whenever I can, I
always want everyone to like me. I let people talk about
me, say anything to my face, and I just take it, laugh it off,
even when I know they are intentionally trying to
disrespect me. I mostly blame the soft schools I went to,
which fostered within me a feeling that I’m a huge #####,
as I never got into fights. I used to get verbally bullied
every day in middle school and high school, by kids that
are half my size. I would never fight back, just get sad &
feel like no one wanted to be my friend, when in fact I was
just being socially awkward. Most people in that situation
are witty & quick with sarcastic replies, I never have been.
I’m awkward around people a lot of the time because I
simply don’t know how to act around them . . .
He was a people pleaser who wanted to go along to get along. He was awkward and didn't know how to handle it. He had spent most of his life in "civilized" situations. And then he hit Richie and gang and it was a nightmare. His previous mental health issues came back, making him more unstable. The childhood bully collides with the bullied. The perfect storm indeed.
