[DYNASTY] The Rookie 100 Index (1 Viewer)

[Weiner Dog]

Here are my Top-Whatever dynasty rankings on defense...

DL:

1. Erasmus James

2. Marcus Spears

3. Luis Castillo (assuming he plays DE in the Chargers' 3-4)

4. Matt Roth (assuming he stays at DE in the Dolphins' hybrid 4-3 / 3-4)

5. Justin Tuck

LB:

1. Derrick Johnson

2. Barrett Rudd

3. Kevin Burnett

4. Channing Crowder

5. Odell Thurman

6. Lofa Tatupu

DB:

1. Thomas Davis

2. Marlin Jackson

3. Brodney Pool

4. Josh Bullocks

5. Oshiomogho Atogwe

You're 100% correct...Merriman (SD), Ware (DAL), Pollack (CIN) and D Cody (BALT) did not make my list. Why?? Despite being amazing players/athletes, all four will be pass-rushing SLB's for their team. I challenge anyone to find a pass-rushing SLB with consistent, top-tier scoring. You can't do it...it can't be done...don't try it. <I'm waiting for a response referencing Lawrence Taylor>

With that being said...if the Chargers switch to a 4-3 in the future, Merriman would immediately challenge (and maybe surpass) James for the #1 billing. I would say the same with both Ware and Pollack, but I truly do not think they'll ever have the size to play DE in the NFL. If the Ravens boot Weaver inside and make Cody a staple across from Suggs, he would leap-frog Castillo as the #3 horse.

On a side note, rookie CB's like Pac Man Jones, Atrel Rolle, Carlos Rogers and maybe Justin Miller should post amazing numbers for '05. If you're in a "must win now" mode, take a gamble on these rookies...opposing QB's will surely do the same for a year or two.

1. Parcells expects Ware to line up roughly 15-20 plays a game at DE in the 4-3, then put him at OLB in the 3-4. In the event that Ware qualifies as a DL in your league, he is VERY valuable.Colin

No doubt. Sometimes players like Ware slip through the cracks and retain either 1.) their prior year's position (ala Adalius Thomas) or 2.) their position played in college. If your league codes Ware as a DL, he will probably become the #1 scoring rookie DL in '05. Parcells will have this guy on the field at all times.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Here are my Top-Whatever dynasty rankings on defense...

DL:

1. Erasmus James

2. Marcus Spears

3. Luis Castillo (assuming he plays DE in the Chargers' 3-4)

4. Matt Roth (assuming he stays at DE in the Dolphins' hybrid 4-3 / 3-4)

5. Justin Tuck

LB:

1. Derrick Johnson

2. Barrett Rudd

3. Kevin Burnett

4. Channing Crowder

5. Odell Thurman

6. Lofa Tatupu

DB:

1. Thomas Davis

2. Marlin Jackson

3. Brodney Pool

4. Josh Bullocks

5. Oshiomogho Atogwe

You're 100% correct...Merriman (SD), Ware (DAL), Pollack (CIN) and D Cody (BALT) did not make my list. Why?? Despite being amazing players/athletes, all four will be pass-rushing SLB's for their team. I challenge anyone to find a pass-rushing SLB with consistent, top-tier scoring. You can't do it...it can't be done...don't try it. <I'm waiting for a response referencing Lawrence Taylor>

With that being said...if the Chargers switch to a 4-3 in the future, Merriman would immediately challenge (and maybe surpass) James for the #1 billing. I would say the same with both Ware and Pollack, but I truly do not think they'll ever have the size to play DE in the NFL. If the Ravens boot Weaver inside and make Cody a staple across from Suggs, he would leap-frog Castillo as the #3 horse.

On a side note, rookie CB's like Pac Man Jones, Atrel Rolle, Carlos Rogers and maybe Justin Miller should post amazing numbers for '05. If you're in a "must win now" mode, take a gamble on these rookies...opposing QB's will surely do the same for a year or two.

2. David Pollack isn't on your list. However, Pasquerelli (sp?) said in his most recent tip-sheet that Marvin Lewis will be using Pollack at OLB as well. WHile this might have been an oversight, he seemed pretty clear about it.Colin

I referenced this (along with Merriman and Ware) in my second-to-last paragraph. Pollack has already stated he intends to "trim-down" to the 250lb range for his inaugural season. This will officially signal his home as a SLB and become the nail in his fantasy football coffin...unless your league codes him as a DL (which I highly doubt).

 

[Silverbacks]

 

[Renegades of Funk]

Weiner - Why so high on Kevin Burnett. Isn't he going to be playing OLB in a 3-4 as well.

 

[Bloom]

TOP 20 IDP (first version)

1 Thomas Davis, SS/LB, CAR - at safety or LB, he'll be a tremendous playmaker behind the carolina front 4.

panthers have plans for davis

2 Barrett Ruud, MLB, TB - a true MLB, he should be a stalwart starter in tampa beginning in 06.

Ruud ready to claim spot

3 Odell Thurman, MLB, CIN - only landon johnson is in his way at MLB - a little small for a 4-3 MLB, but has the fire to make up for it. some character risk.

profile of thurman

4 Derrick Johnson, OLB, KC - could be the most productive player in the draft, could be a bust - KC LB corps is a mess and DJ could get mired at SLB

5 Channing Crowder, ILB, MIA - his speed and fragility will remind a lot of kendrell bell. draft accordingly.

saban likes crowder

6 Lofa Tatupu, MLB, SEA - eerily reminiscent of dat nguyen - small but lots of heart... bust risk as he may not overcome his shortcomings.

Rookie fitting in nicely in middle

7 Brodney Pool, FS, CLE - this is best youll get at safety since there are no stud SS in this draft. long term, pool should be the QB of the romeo crennel defense and make plays all over the place.

8 Kevin Burnett, LB, DAL - has the skills to be a top 3 IDP from this draft, but if he ends up at 3-4 OLB, his numbers will suffer.

parcells lauds burnett

9 Demarcus Ware, LB, DAL - same as burnett, except we know he's an 3-4 OLB

10 Shawne Merriman, LB, SD - see Ware

Merriman wants to be in camp, but cant

11 David Pollack, SLB, CIN - like Ware and Merriman, a tremendous player stuck in a bad fantasy position

Pollack begins LB training

12 Alfred Fincher, LB, NO - Fincher could easily be as high as #5 or #6 in a few months. he could easily replace courtney watson as the MLB of the future for the saints.

Fincher hoping to break through

13 Kirk Morrison, ILB, OAK - the signing of foreman makes his prospects for this year a little less exciting, but should settle into an ILB spot long term. like fincher, could zoom up this list with a good camp.

14 Robert McCune, MLB, WAS - this guy has jeremiah trotter written all over him.

15 Lance Mitchell, MLB, ARI - dont be too surprised if mitchell is the most productive LB out of this draft - getting over the ACL tear from 03 is the only question.

16 Donte Nicholson, SS, TB - the best SS in the draft - and jermaine phillips is anything but entrenched. a perfect late round rookie pick if you are at a loss.

17 OJ Atogwe, FS, STL - the only guy who can cover among the St louis safeties, should be starting real soon.

18 Leroy Hill, OLB, SEA - very productive LB, but small - could get mired at SLB behind sharper, could be a jackpot late pick if he can win the WLB job. watch his camp closely.

19 Marlin Jackson, CB/FS, IND - i see him as a FS long term as indy lacks a true FS - either way, he'll pile up tackles with his physical style in the cover 2.

20 Antrel Rolle, CB, ARI - will put up big tackle numbers as a CB because of his style, should be picked higher in start 2 CB leagues.

Left off:

Daryl Blackstock, LB, ARI - love the talent, but he's blocked by dansby and only projects to be an SLB

Dan Cody, DE/OLB, BAL Stuck in DE/OLB in baltimore's scheme, not good for fantasy

Erasmus James, DE, MIN - Im just not sold on this guys game beyond the pure pass rush.

Justin Tuck, DE, NYG - probably #21, as he has the best in the biz (strahan) to learn from. bump him up in start 2 DE leagues.

Matt Roth, DE/OLB, MIA - see cody

Josh BUllocks, FS, NO - ballhawk who wont put up big tackle #s

Nick Collins, S/CB, GB - project, and GBs secondary is a mess

Sean Considine, FS, PHI - *sleeper alert* could easily make the top 20 by august - i like his chances of sticking on philly's D as the top backup safety.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Weiner - Why so high on Kevin Burnett. Isn't he going to be playing OLB in a 3-4 as well.

IMO, Burnett's value fell slightly when he was drafted by DAL. Prior to the draft, he was the #2 LB on my board (behind DJ). After the draft, I was forced to rank Burnett as the #3 LB based on ability alone. Also, Crowder will probably not see the field much in '05 as the Fins slowly transition from the 4-3 into the 3-4, while Thurman has an uphill climb unseating fellow youngster Landon Johnson from the MLB spot. Burnett...along with DJ and Rudd...should be starters fairly early.

The Cowboys plan on using Burnett as their SLB in the 4-3. This is not promising. There is confusion, however, about Burnett's role in the 3-4. I'm hoping he'll either slide into the weak-side (either OLB or ILB) in the 3-4. If he doesn't make the switch in the 3-4, Crowder and Thurman will be knocking.

 

[Renegades of Funk]

Bloom -Two questions:Wouldn't Ware win out over Burnett if they both end up at OLB? Ware would be the rush LB, but I would think his sack potential would put him above Burnett?I think you might be selling Jermaine Phillips a little short. TB just signed him to an extension last year. If anyone gets pushed out it would be Will Allen. Due to Nicholson's lack of speed you could be right though - Phillips FS, Nichoslon SS.

 

[P Boy]

Left off:

Daryl Blackstock, LB, ARI - love the talent, but he's blocked by dansby and only projects to be an SLB

I don't quite understand this comment. Blackstock's greatest strengths are his pass rushing skills (which are quite frankly frightening with his first step & quickness) & his ability to play laterally. This makes him a shoe in for the WLB. Dansby is much more suited for the SLB, playing over the TE. Why would you play Blackstock in a position where he can't use the strengths in his game?From his scouting report:

Blackstock is a fine pass rusher who has made steady progress improving his run defense skills. He has great straight-ahead quickness and works hard down the line. He displays balance and agility pursuing sideline-to-sideline. Blackstock has good explosion off the snap and excels when given a clear lane to make plays from the backside or flush the quarterback out of the pocket. His initial burst allows him to slip past slower offensive linemen to race uncontested into the backfield. He also shows very good snap anticipation to get a quick jump on the ball....

Where Blackstock excels is on the blitz and as a pass rusher. There is no other linebacker in the country with the sudden burst and effective pass rush moves (rip, swim, club, hump) that he displays. He shows excellent timing coming off the edge and a burst to almost instantly close on the quarterback. He stays on his feet in pursuit and has developed nice counter moves to slip past blockers. His exceptional speed coming off the corner's edge is the reason he has been so successful in getting to the quarterback on a regular basis.

 

[Bloom]

Left off:

Daryl Blackstock, LB, ARI - love the talent, but he's blocked by dansby and only projects to be an SLB

I don't quite understand this comment. Blackstock's greatest strengths are his pass rushing skills (which are quite frankly frightening with his first step & quickness) & his ability to play laterally. This makes him a shoe in for the WLB. Dansby is much more suited for the SLB, playing over the TE. Why would you play Blackstock in a position where he can't use the strengths in his game?

because blackstock played SLB in college. he could move to WLB - but until i hear something out of the cards camp to that effect (right now huff and darling are competing for the WLB spot) ill pencil blackstock in at SLB. i could even see him being groomed to become a 3rd down pass rush specialist like lance johnstone - either way, fantasy prospects are dim unless his situation changes.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Blackstock is much better suited for the SLB role. At 6'3" 250lbs, he'd probably be the 2nd-biggest WLB in the league...next to Arrington...if he were moved. Blackstock has decent range, but he's primarily been used in an upfield attacking mode his entire life. The WLB position requires more read, run, and pursuit.I will say this...The Cards's defense will be a terror on passing downs in '05. With guys like Berry, Okeafor, Dockett, Dansby, and Blackstock attacking the QB, the OL and blocking backs will definitely have their hands full. Denny Green is definitely putting his defense on the map.

 

[Bloom]

i actually think blackstock would have been best suited to play OLB in 3-4. with his bulk and gifted pass rush ability... not quibbling with the pick for the cards as he was a steal in the 3rd, i just dont see him settling into an everydown role for them.

 

[P Boy]

brandon jacobs, RB, NYG - Hard to see him ever getting more than 150 carries unless the gints totally change their offensive philosophy.

I'm hesitant to consider him a top prospect just based upon his size. He is built more like a tight end than a RB and don't think he's got the ideal measurables to be anything more than a goalline back. I can't remember the last RB I heard of that was 6'-4" as the ideal height is typically somewhere between 5'-10" and 6'-0" for a tailback or they have a tendency to be too upright and easy to tackle. The shorter stocky guys seem to have much less upright running styles than the tall guys. Granted, I haven't ever seen the guy play and haven't heard anybody else mention this concern, but that is just something that jumped out at me when I saw his measureables.

Can we please stop this "too much size" nonsense.Here's a partial list of RBs who were one-dimensional becuase they were too big or too heavy, and they wouldn't be able to be a featured RB because of that, and that they ran too high:

Eddie George 6’-3” 235 lbs

9 seasons

2865 rushes 10441 rush yds 68 rush TDs

268 catches 2227 rec yds 10 rec TD

John Riggins 6’-2” 230 lbs

14 seasons

2916 rushes 11352 rush yds 104 rush TDs

250 catches 2090 rec yds 12 rec TDs

Jerome Bettis 5’-11” 255 lbs

12 seasons

3369 rushes 13,294 rush yds 82 rush TDs

196 catches 1409 rec yds 3 rec TDs

Christian Okoye 6’-1” 260 lbs

6 seasons

1246 rushes 4897 rush yds 40 rush TDs

42 catches 294 rec yds 0 rec TDs

James Wilder 6’-3” 225 lbs

11 seasons

1586 rushes 6008 rush yds 37 rush TDs

431 catches 3500 rec yds 10 rec TDs

John Brockington 6’-1” 225 lbs

8 seasons

1347 rushes 5185 rush yds 30 rush TDs

157 catches 1297 rec yds 4 rec TDs

OJ Anderson 6’-2” 225 lbs

15 seasons

2562 rushes 10273 rush yds 81 rush TDs

376 catches 3062 rec yds 5 rec TDs

Eric Dickerson 6’-3” 220 lbs

12 seasons

2996 rushes 13259 rush yds 90 rush TDs

281 catches 2137 rec yds 6 rec TDs

Jim Brown 6’-2” 232 lbs

9 seasons

2359 rushes 12312 rush yds 106 rush TDs

262 catches 2499 rec yds 20 rec TDs

And let's not lose sight of the fact that some of these guys played when football players were significantly smaller than they are today, so relatively speaking they were bigger than Jacobs is in comparison to the players around them.

Now I'm not saying that Jacobs is the next Jim Brown, but to simply dismiss him as a viable RB simply because of his size is downright ludicrous.

Jacobs has phenominal speed for a guy his size, and dishes out as much or more punishment than he takes. He can catch out of the backfield. The only thing I see holding him back is his learning disability - but that can be overcome given the position he plays. Barber is 30 yrs old and is very light/small for an NFL RB, and has been taking a lot of touches the past three years. There are no veterans behind Barber that remotely ressemble a featured NFL RB. Jacobs could have a golden opportunity to step in and make noise.

 

[Bloom]

pony boy, like i said, if the giants totally change their running game to power running, then jacobs could have a bright fantasy future. i dont see that happening until barber retires, and even then jacobs would have to really impress them to warrant a complete change in blocking schemes and the running game... i dont deny jacobs impressive size/speed combo, and if he had gone to a team with a power running game like the steelers or panthers (see my ranking of eric shelton) then i would be very high on his prospects - but since he didnt and will probably be pigeonholed into a short yardage back role, i will let jacobs sit on someone else's bench. i dont even think jacobs is the primary back if barber goes down... i would expect derrick ward or ryan grant to emerge as the backup to barber in camp.

 

[P Boy]

because blackstock played SLB in college. he could move to WLB - but until i hear something out of the cards camp to that effect (right now huff and darling are competing for the WLB spot) ill pencil blackstock in at SLB. i could even see him being groomed to become a 3rd down pass rush specialist like lance johnstone - either way, fantasy prospects are dim unless his situation changes.

All 3 starting LBs at the beginning of the year last year could be on the bench. Huff & Hayes are non-factors. Huff started 13 games, played in all 16 games, and had a grand total of 42 solo tackles & 10 assists. Hayes had 1 start but played in all 16 games, and had a grand total of 20 solo tackles & 4 assists. Those numbers are putrid & a very good reason why AZ was such a terrible D. Darling was the only LB of the 3 who performed at any kind of pro level. He started 15 games, had 75 solo tackles and 18 assists, but also only had 1 sack, 1 INT, and 2 FF. He's a decent but hardly a great LB.If Lance Mitchell is fully recovered from the ACL injury 2 years ago, he's probably the best LB on the team & will start at MLB. Dansby showed great promise and will probably start at one OLB, and Blackstock with his size & speed could very well start at the other OLB. I still think Blackstock is helped tremendously if he is allowed to play in space, and Dansby would be a good anchor at SLB - he's listed as the starter there right now on the depth chart.We'll see, but I could easily see that by week 4/5 that Huff, Hayes, & Darling are all relegated to the bench. The 3 young guys are all more athletic, meaner, and more capable LBs.

 

[P Boy]

pony boy, like i said, if the giants totally change their running game to power running, then jacobs could have a bright fantasy future. i dont see that happening until barber retires, and even then jacobs would have to really impress them to warrant a complete change in blocking schemes and the running game

I don't understand. So what you are saying is that the Giants' O-linemen only are coached to open holes that a very small RB can run through? If a RB gets to the hole quickly, I fail to see what difference the size of the RB has to do with the scheme. Size of the RB has nothing to do with the style of his running. While it is true that many big RBs are trained to be pounders to effectively use their size, that rule is not set in stone. Would you consider Brown, OJ Anderson, or Dickerson pounders?Jacobs has enough knee bend & agility to make tacklers miss. Have you seen him play or read his scouting reports?

 

[P Boy]

By the way, I do think you guys did a great job on your lists. I just hate seeing common conceptions applied to all players, and then to dismiss players simply because they don't fall within the boundaries of the conception. If that were true, Culpepper would hardly be a sought-after QB. He certainly isn't contained by the mold of the ideal QB.

 

[Bloom]

pony boy, like i said, if the giants totally change their running game to power running, then jacobs could have a bright fantasy future. i dont see that happening until barber retires, and even then jacobs would have to really impress them to warrant a complete change in blocking schemes and the running game

I don't understand. So what you are saying is that the Giants' O-linemen only are coached to open holes that a very small RB can run through? If a RB gets to the hole quickly, I fail to see what difference the size of the RB has to do with the scheme. Size of the RB has nothing to do with the style of his running. While it is true that many big RBs are trained to be pounders to effectively use their size, that rule is not set in stone. Would you consider Brown, OJ Anderson, or Dickerson pounders?Jacobs has enough knee bend & agility to make tacklers miss. Have you seen him play or read his scouting reports?

havent seen him play, but everything i read said jacobs was a straight line power runner.

 

[P Boy]

havent seen him play, but everything i read said jacobs was a straight line power runner.

Some reports:NFL.com

ANALYSIS

Has a wide body frame with a thick chest, broad shoulders, long and muscular arms, large hands, big bubble and thick legs … For a player his size, he has very quick feet and agility, showing ease of movement and excellent balance and agility weaving through traffic … Has the body control to change direction going through the rush lanes and can cut back quickly when the holes are filled … Power-oriented runner who can move the chains and defenders taking the ball up the gut … Has the strength to break arm tackles … Not really a breakaway threat, but has enough of a short area burst to gain yardage bouncing to the outside … Gets through the holes quickly for a player his size … Does a good job of securing and protecting the ball before running … Not used much as a receiver, but in limited chances, he showed an adequate feel for coverage and the ability to settle in the zone … Catches with hands extended from the frame … Aggressive run blocker with the foot speed to mirror and will not hesitate to step up and take on blitzers … Runs hard and keeps his balance on the move … Has above-average run vision and field awareness … Has enough knee bend and hip weave to set up and slip past defenders … Does a very good job of squaring his shoulders once he gets into the open.

CAMPUS: 4.52 in the 40-yard dash

COMBINE: 4.56 in the 40-yard dash

*******************************************************

USA Today

Another intriguing prospect, Southern Illinois' Brandon Jacobs, speaks with firsthand knowledge when he says of Brown and Williams, "They're two determined guys." Jacobs was their backfield mate for 1 1/2 years before transferring. "They were willing to work with me and teach me," said Jacobs, who rushed for 992 yards, a 6.6-yard average carry and 16 TDs in his one season with the Salukis. Jacobs (6-4, 267) is a wide body who complements a hard-charging running style with quick feet and shifty moves. ...

****************************************************************

Giants’ scouting report:

4th Round - HB Brandon Jacobs (6-4, 267lbs, 4.56, Southern Illinois):

Scouting Report: Jacobs originally signed with Auburn coming out of high school but was ruled academically ineligible. He attended Coffeyville College in 2001, where he rushed for 1,349 yards and 17 touchdowns. In 2002, he carried the ball 267 times for 1,896 yards and 20 touchdowns. He then transferred to Auburn where he found himself stuck behind Carnell Williams and Ronnie Brown (both high first round draft picks). At Auburn, he rushed the ball 72 times for 446 yards and 3 touchdowns. Jacobs then transferred to Southern Illinois and in 2004 he carried the ball 150 times for 992 yards and 19 touchdowns. Jacobs was named the MVP of the Gridiron Classic college all-star game. Jacobs is a positively huge running back with surprising speed, agility, and balance for his size.

**********************************************************

What Ernie Accorsi Had to Say: "The player that I got the most exited over in the two days is Brandon Jacobs. The biggest worry that I had was any time you have to sleep on it, you start looking at the board, size and speed usually catches people's eyes. I was worried sick that he was going to get picked...we did not draft him as a fullback. He is a halfback. He is a one-back halfback. Obviously he has short-yardage specialization. But he can play anywhere on the field. It gives us a big back who can run. That was an important pick to us...(He is) a legitimate halfback, not as a short yardage specialist...He can run. At 267 pounds he has tremendous speed. He averages 6.6 yards per carry, 19 touchdowns. He gained 992 yards on a rotation. I don't know what their record was, but they had two transfers and all-pro players. So he never really got a chance to get a lot of statistics, but his average speaks for itself and touchdowns. He can catch the ball...When you see his body, you will see he doesn't need to lose any weight. It looks to me like an ideal weight for him. He has a chiseled frame. He is not soft in any way."

*******************************************

Anonymous report:

It should be noted that 2004 was his only year at SIU, and that he did have a 2003 year at Auburn -- where he carried the ball 72 times, gained 466 yards and scored three touchdowns. Coincidentally, his per-carry average of 6.5 at Auburn was virtually the same as his per-carry average of 6.7 at SIU. And as another indication that he is familiar with the game, he carried 11 times in the East-West Shrine game Jan. 15, 2005, gaining 102 yards which included a 52-yard touchdown burst.

When Jacobs was drafted, he was put on a conference call with the gathering of media in the basement of Giants Stadium. Someone asked this question: "Are you aware that for three years or so the Giants have had trouble on third down and short yardage?"

Some of those present will swear that he said: "Not any more."

Now THAT you've got to like in a kid, who also admitted he's a little heavy and would like to play this season at 260. Yeah, those seven pounds will really make a difference, right?

Remember, he is 6-3 (well, damned near 6-4) and he weighs 267 pounds. He has a vertical leap of 37 inches. He scored a 20 in the 42-question Wonderlic test, not bad at all considering what other draft picks (higher ones) came in with. The coaches at SIU said that he had a 4.52 at his "pro day" on the school campus. It has also been suggested that he has had several experiences with 4.45 and 4.47 for various men holding stop watches and undoubtedly breathing heavily.

 

[Bloom]

link

Weaknesses: A RB / FB 'tweener who may not have the pure speed or shiftiness needed to play running back in the pros...

link

Weaknesses: Regarding his running style, at his size, it's hard not to have an upright running style. While he has open field speed, if he can't run you over between the tackles, he's not going to juke you.

link

He doesn't have great elusiveness in the open field though and is a pure power runner. He has decent lateral ability but he is at his best when going straight upfield.

we can go back and forth in a battle of links - my main point is that the giants cant just run the same running plays with jacobs that they run with barber, he's a completely different kind of runner.

 

[P Boy]

we can go back and forth in a battle of links - my main point is that the giants cant just run the same running plays with jacobs that they run with barber, he's a completely different kind of runner.

And you can say that based on what? You admit that you haven't seen him run, so I assume that you are making your judgment based specifically on his size. Why can't the Giants run the same plays for him?I don't understand your prejudice. Could you explain it to me? I'm not pimping this guy as the next superstud runner on the NFL map, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt given the reports & having seen him play a couple of times, rather than just throw him on the scrapheap with a tag of "one-dimensional short yardage" RB.

 

[Bloom]

we can go back and forth in a battle of links - my main point is that the giants cant just run the same running plays with jacobs that they run with barber, he's a completely different kind of runner.

And you can say that based on what? You admit that you haven't seen him run, so I assume that you are making your judgment based specifically on his size. Why can't the Giants run the same plays for him?I don't understand your prejudice. Could you explain it to me? I'm not pimping this guy as the next superstud runner on the NFL map, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt given the reports & having seen him play a couple of times, rather than just throw him on the scrapheap with a tag of "one-dimensional short yardage" RB.

this is getting tiresome, lets just see how it plays out. if jacobs is the primary backup to barber at the end of training camp, ill be happy to say you owned me on this one.

 

[Weiner Dog]

When I was watching the NFL combine on TV, a few of the commentators believed Jacobs would be moved to FB in the NFL based on his subpar agility drills. His ability to "cut on a dime" were almost non-existent. This was confirmed by his 4.37 in the short-shuttle and 7.53 in the three-cone.For comparative purposes, here are the top performers at different drills for RB's at the combine. Jacobs is certainly explosive (ala 40 time and vertical). I just don't know if he has the necessary shake-and-bake:40 yard dashT-1) J.J. Arrington 4.46T-1) Darren Sproles 4.463) Ronnie Brown 4.48T-4) Deandra Cobb 4.49T-4) Ryan Moats 4.49T-4) Walter Reyes 4.49 Vertical Leap1) Marion Barber 402) Eric Shelton 38-1/2T-3) Anthony Davis 38T-3) Kay-Jay Harris 385) Brandon Jacobs 37 Broad JumpT-1) Marion Barber 10 ft. 7 in.T-1) Eric Shelton 10 ft. 7in.3) Kay-Jay Harris 10 ft. 2 in.T-4) J.J. Arrington 10 ft. 1 in.T-4) Anthony Davis 10 ft. 1 in.T-4) Lionel Gates 10 ft. 1 in. 3 Cone Drill1) J.J. Arrington 6.812) Carnell Williams 6.943) Noah Herron 6.954) Darren Sproles 6.965) Vernand Morency 7.02Short Shuttle1) Darren Sproles 3.962) Noah Herron 3.97T-3) Ronnie Brown 4.08T-3) Eric Shelton 4.08T-5) Lionel Gates 4.10T-5) Kay-Jay Harris 4.10T-5) Ryan Moats 4.10 60-Yard Long Shuttle1) Ryan Grant 10.65T-2) J.J. Arrington 11.07T-2) Noah Herron 11.074) Alvin Pearman 11.11T-5) Ryan Moats 11.13T-5) Darren Sproles 11.13

 

[P Boy]

When I was watching the NFL combine on TV, a few of the commentators believed Jacobs would be moved to FB in the NFL based on his subpar agility drills.  His ability to "cut on a dime" were almost non-existent.  This was confirmed by his 4.37 in the short-shuttle and 7.53 in the three-cone.For comparative purposes, here are the top performers at different drills for RB's at the combine.  Jacobs is certainly explosive (ala 40 time and vertical).  I just don't know if he has the necessary shake-and-bake:

I've never quite understood what a shuttle run has to do with football - unless a team is looking for a RB who can run 10 yards downfield with the ball & then reverse direction and run right back to the line of scrimmage quickly. The 3 cone drill I understand. The standing long jump really doesn't relate to any relevant football skill either. However, the water-bug type players certainly have an advantage in these drills. Doesn't help them much when they meet a 300 lb DT in the hole or a scraping 240 lb LB, though, does it? Mass does matter on the field, if you can get it moving fast enough and there is enough agility to move it 1 or 2 yards sideways quickly. By all accounts & evidence, Jacobs can do that.

 

[EBF]

When I was watching the NFL combine on TV, a few of the commentators believed Jacobs would be moved to FB in the NFL based on his subpar agility drills.  His ability to "cut on a dime" were almost non-existent.  This was confirmed by his 4.37 in the short-shuttle and 7.53 in the three-cone.

For comparative purposes, here are the top performers at different drills for RB's at the combine.  Jacobs is certainly explosive (ala 40 time and vertical).  I just don't know if he has the necessary shake-and-bake:

I've never quite understood what a shuttle run has to do with football - unless a team is looking for a RB who can run 10 yards downfield with the ball & then reverse direction and run right back to the line of scrimmage quickly. The 3 cone drill I understand. The standing long jump really doesn't relate to any relevant football skill either. However, the water-bug type players certainly have an advantage in these drills. Doesn't help them much when they meet a 300 lb DT in the whole or a 240 lb LB scraping to the holes, though, does it?

Yea, it helps a lot. It helps because they can juke that LB before he even touches them, whereas the big bruisers are going to have to endure a big collision.As for the broad jump, it relates to leg strength and the ability to generate a sudden burst. Those are pretty important qualities in a RB.

You're incorrect in noting that "water-bug type" players have an advantage in these drills. They may have an advantage in the shuttle run and three cone drill, but they have a disadvantage in the jumps. Taller players can generally jump higher and farther due to the length of their legs.

 

[Spike]

----->>>>> This way to the pissing contest.

 

[Chris Smith]

I meant to post this earlier in here. I have the combine / workout stuff for a lot of the running backs drafted plus some free agents... Hope this displays alright..

Name	Team	Ht	Wt	40-Y	20-Y	10-Y	Bench	Vertical	Broad	Shuttle	3-Cone	WonderBrown, Ronnie (RB)	Auburn  6/1	233	4.43	2.63	1.5	18	34	9'9"  4.14	7.12	23Williams, Carnell (RB)	Auburn  5/11	217	4.43	2.61	1.58	19	35 1/2	9'10"  4.17	6.95	22Benson, Cedric (RB)	Texas  5/11	222	4.55        19Barber III, Marion* (RB)	Minnesota  5/11	221	4.49 	 20	40	10'7"    16Shelton, Eric* (RB)	Louisville  6/2	246	4.53	2.68	1.64  38 1/2	10'4"  4.08	7.46	23Arrington, J.J. (RB)	California  5/9	214	4.4	2.62	1.58	18	35	10'1"  4.1	6.81	14Gore, Frank* (RB)	Miami (FL)  5/9	210	4.6        6Fason, Ciatrick* (RB)	Florida  6/1	207	4.59        16Moats, Ryan* (RB)	Louisiana Tech  5/8	210	4.46	2.63	1.57	19	36	9'9"  4.11	7.22	18Clarett, Maurice* (RB)	Ohio State  6/1	234	4.78	2.81	1.63	22	34	9'7"    19Morency, Vernand* (RB)	Oklahoma State  5/10	212	4.52 	 19	33 1/2	9'0"  4.2	7.02	11Jacobs, Brandon (RB)	Southern Illinois  6/4	267	4.56	2.72	1.69	19	37	9'10"  4.49	7.54	20Sproles, Darren (RB)	Kansas State  5/6	187	4.47	2.62	1.55	23	33	8'9"  3.96	6.96	21Houston, Cedric (RB)	Tennessee  5/11	225	4.45        17Gates, Lionel (RB)	Louisville  6/1	222	4.6	2.8	1.69	23	36	10'1"  4.12	7.17	21Herron, Noah (RB)	Northwestern  5/11	200	4.6	2.7	1.64	17	31	9'0"  4.03	6.96	25McLendon, T.A.* (RB)	North Carolina St  5/10	235	4.71	2.78	1.69	27	35	9'9"  4.27	7.35	18Davis, Anthony (RB)	Wisconsin  5/7	200	4.5	2.64	1.58	18	38	10'1" 	 7.39	24Reyes, Walter (RB)	Syracuse  5/10	209	4.52	2.73	1.7	16	32	9'1"  4.39	7.24	11Harris, Kay-Jay (RB)	West Virginia  6/1	243	4.56	2.72	1.61  38	10'2"  4.1	7.22	12Cobb, DeAndra (RB)	Michigan State  5/10	196	4.49	2.71	1.63	17	34	9'10"  4.26	7.13	16Purify, Bobby (RB)	Colorado  6/1	210	4.67	2.73	1.65	15	33 1/2	9'8"  4.17	7.22	19Grant, Ryan (RB)	Notre Dame  6/1	215	4.43	2.65	1.57	17	33 1/2	9'7"  4.14	7.1	26

 

[Bri]

Bloom, I think you're mistaken with your comments re:Heath Miller. With Curtis Coates did well and with TD, Sharpe did well, with Priest, Tony G does well.Minor quibble, very well done opening post though.

 

[Bri]

31. Nash

One Chris Brown injury away from getting a look in tennessee IF he can make the team. has the build and running style to succeed in the NFL, like clarett a major character risk. still the RB scarcity means he merits a pick here. Good insurance for brown owners here. Watch to see who out of Reyes, Nash, and Charles wins the primary backup job to chris brown and rank them here.

As I understand it, Nash criticized the coach’s play calling after a game and was suspended for one game. He is asked about it in ever interview. Has he done other things that make him a character risk?

You are forgetting one. Payton. He is doing quite well in NFL Europe. J.Payton, Ams (TEN) 62 410 6.6 53 5 (6 games splitting series with another back)

Not too shabby.

They have two RBs doing well in NFLE. J Smith too

 

[Bri]

What are your thoughts on these guys chances of getting significant playing time:C Henry CIN C Thorpe KC or S Parker or Richard Smith Jenkins or Roddy White?Rashaun Woods, Arnaz Battle, Hamilton?Clayton or Himes or Moore in balt?F Gibson in PittV Jackson SD or Caldwell or ParkerC Roby Ten

 

[slowerde]

What are your thoughts on these guys chances of getting significant playing time:

C Henry CIN

C Thorpe KC or S Parker or Richard Smith

Jenkins or Roddy White?

Rashaun Woods, Arnaz Battle, Hamilton?

Clayton or Himes or Moore in balt?

F Gibson in Pitt

V Jackson SD or Caldwell or Parker

C Roby Ten

Since I'm a Charger fan, I know a little more about Jackson than I do the other situations, but everything he has done so far has been FANTASTIC!!! Coaching staff has really been impressed, and every interview he has conducted has said everything corrct, knows how big of a jump he is making, and realizes he has to work hard to improve.With that being said, he is a WR who will only get situational playing time this year, and he knows that. Now WHERE he gets it is anyone guess, red zone? 3rd down? a guy that runs nothing but go patterns due to his size and speed?

That part is a mystery that no one will know, and I'm sure the coaching staff won't be quick to tell.

But he is a guy that is at least a year away from being an every down wideout in the NFL. He is going the right way, and there is a LOT of optimism from the franchise, and would be owners of him. With McCardell getting up there in age, and the lack of overall size at the position on the chargers, make this a match that should become terrific for many years.

Edit to throw some other random thoughts about the other players you mentioned.....

Where does Henry play? You really think CJ or TJ is going anywhere? Washington showed flashes last year, and they are just starting to get a return on thier investment. So with that, he may be a time bomb ticking as his frustration builds.

C Thorpe should be given every opportunity to see as much of the field THIS year as possible, his lack of buzz makes me wonder if he is doing anything to justify that.

Jenkins/White should be a battle this pre-season, I'd put it 50-50 right now.

Not a CLUE about the wide receiver position in San Fran, nor do I want to.

While I'm not NEARLY as high as other on Clayton (I see him disappearing on the field, as he did in all the big games he's played in college). I think he starts at WR2 this year. Which is weird becasue I saw a lot to get excited about in Moore last year in B-More. I think he'd be the MUCH better compliment to Mason.

The more I think about Gibson in Pitt, the more I like it, he can come in and take the Plax role, without the character issues. May not be this year, but it could just as well be. He is rising up my draft board more and more.

No clue about Roby. Sorry.

 

[slowerde]

Since I'm not too worried about my league mates getting up this early and checking in, I'll throw out my top 25 defensive players, I don't have the time to get into the "whys" right now, but I can come back and edit (just not probably toinght, as I'll be a lil buzzed from the draft today, and the card game to follow). But if someone wants another set of rankings, I'm more than happy to oblige, also helps me sort everything out for my draft as well.1) Derrick Johnson, OLB Kansas City2) Thomas Davis, S/LB Carolina3) Demarcus Ware, DE Dallas4) Barrett Rudd, ILB Tampa bay5) David Pollack, OLB Cincinnati6) Shawne Merriman, OLB San Diego7) Erasmus James, DE Minnesota8) Odell Thurman, ILB Cincinnati9) Antrell Rolle, CB Arizona10) Darryl Blackstock, OLB Arizona11) Channing Crowder, ILB Miami12) Brodney Pool, S Cleveland13) Carlos Rogers, CB Washington14) Marcus Spears, DE Dallas15) Kevin Burnett, OLB Dallas16) Dan Cody, DE Baltimore17) Alfred Fincher, ILB New Orleans18) Kirk Morrison, ILB Oakland19) Matt Roth, DE Miami20) Lofa Tatupu, ILB Seattle21) Pac Man Jones, CB Tennesse22) Josh Bullocks, S New Orleans23) Shaun Cody, DT Detroit24) Justin Tuck, DE NY Giants25) Justin Miller, CB NY Jets

 

[P Boy]

They have two RBs doing well in NFLE. J Smith too

Quick. Name one player who has made any kind of impact in the NFL after playing in the NFLE since it was changed from the WFL. And I do mean any kind of impact - not necessarily starting material.

 

[-OZ-]

They have two RBs doing well in NFLE. J Smith too

Quick. Name one player who has made any kind of impact in the NFL after playing in the NFLE since it was changed from the WFL. And I do mean any kind of impact - not necessarily starting material.

Rohan Davey!He carries a clip board with the best of them.

 

[Bri]

thanks for the reply

Since I'm a Charger fan, I know a little more about Jackson than I do the other situations, but everything he has done so far has been FANTASTIC!!! Coaching staff has really been impressed, and every interview he has conducted has said everything corrct, knows how big of a jump he is making, and realizes he has to work hard to improve.With that being said, he is a WR who will only get situational playing time this year, and he knows that. Now WHERE he gets it is anyone guess, red zone? 3rd down? a guy that runs nothing but go patterns due to his size and speed?That part is a mystery that no one will know, and I'm sure the coaching staff won't be quick to tell.But he is a guy that is at least a year away from being an every down wideout in the NFL. He is going the right way, and there is a LOT of optimism from the franchise, and would be owners of him. With McCardell getting up there in age, and the lack of overall size at the position on the chargers, make this a match that should become terrific for many years.

I imagine Keenan on one side and Parker+Caldwell on the other. I need one to jump out at me. If they're splitting time, I'm not so fond of their expected stats. I'm guessing Jackson will take away their TDs and....will draft elsewhere

Where does Henry play? You really think CJ or TJ is going anywhere? Washington showed flashes last year, and they are just starting to get a return on thier investment. So with that, he may be a time bomb ticking as his frustration builds.

Washington hasn't done much IMO. I don't think it'd be hard for Henry to hop over him on the depth chart. Cincy has "no TE" so a 3rd WR could be a viable option there somedays. I feel like I'm making excuses to show this guy might have some value so he probably won't. Know that feeling? Know what I mean?

C Thorpe should be given every opportunity to see as much of the field THIS year as possible, his lack of buzz makes me wonder if he is doing anything to justify that.

I thought they liked Parker. Why won't he be the one to replace Morton(if anyone)? Is Thorpe alot better than him?

Jenkins/White should be a battle this pre-season, I'd put it 50-50 right now.

I don't care for Finneran or Dez, Price doesn't seem like a #1 to me. Still, can't see either getting much time. But if that were true they wouldn't have wasted two high picks on them....I'm torn here.

While I'm not NEARLY as high as other on Clayton (I see him disappearing on the field, as he did in all the big games he's played in college). I think he starts at WR2 this year. Which is weird becasue I saw a lot to get excited about in Moore last year in B-More. I think he'd be the MUCH better compliment to Mason.

Interesting. I too wonder why when they drafted Clayton it made most forget Moore existed(more or less). Baltimore hasn't exactly been the best team to snag WRs from in FF. Will Billick dust off an old Minny playbook or is it foolish to expect any more than one WR to do well?

The more I think about Gibson in Pitt, the more I like it, he can come in and take the Plax role, without the character issues. May not be this year, but it could just as well be. He is rising up my draft board more and more.

This guy's a pain in the neck. Why'd they get Cedrick Wilson? So sometimes he's going to be the man among smurfs. Bettis can bang it in, no prob. How many redzone targets/TDs will he get to be a viable FF pick? Won't TE Miller also be their new redzone target?

No clue about Roby. Sorry.

I don't see anyone on the depth chart in Tenn. I guess he's #3. Is Calico gonna stay healthy this year? He could step right into a #2 spot regardless of how good he is. This thread http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=158775 Tick's already got him hurt. Opportunity-wise, he may be one of the better rookie WRs. Then again, he can't be that good otherwise alot of folks would be touting him. Puzzling player.

 

[Bri]

They have two RBs doing well in NFLE. J Smith too

Quick. Name one player who has made any kind of impact in the NFL after playing in the NFLE since it was changed from the WFL. And I do mean any kind of impact - not necessarily starting material.

WFL was a league from 74-75. I'm figuring you mean WFAL and that's 91-93. IIRC one of many reasons the WFAL failed was they promised a game between the CFL champ and their champ but never deliverred. A sorta best of the rest game. Otherwise, can't recall much about that league or how they became NFLE.Well anyway, Kurt Warner. Well I (and many others)could probably name 30-40 guys. Is this a joke?

 

[jurb26]

My list:Tier 11. C.Williams2. R.Brown3. Benson4. WilliamsonTier 25. Arrington6. Edwards7. M.Jones8. Clayton9. M.WilliamsTier 310. Gore11. Shelton12. H.Miller13. A.Smith14. MoatesTier 415. V.Jackson16. R.Brown17. J.Campbell18. A.Rodgers19. Clarrett20. F.Gibson21. C.Henry22. C.FryeTier 523. A.Smith (TE)24. Thorpe25. McPherson26. Morency27. R.White28. M.Bradley29. Walter30. B.Jacobs31. Barber III32. Fason33. Parrish34. K.Everett35. Pearman36. B.Jones37. Nash38. Orton39. Houston40. Roby

 

[Bri]

Ponyboy,

http://www.nfleurope.com/news/story/8150337

just NFLE players on Supe teams but alot of "not too shabby" players in that article.

 

[Riffraff]

Ponyboy,

http://www.nfleurope.com/news/story/8150337

just NFLE players on Supe teams but alot of "not too shabby" players in that article.

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark.

 

[P Boy]

Ponyboy,

http://www.nfleurope.com/news/story/8150337

just NFLE players on Supe teams but alot of "not too shabby" players in that article.

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark.

Yep, he got me alright. Dante Hall is a meaningful contributor who played since the NFL took over the European league. Of course, he does it on special teams, but I'll admit I was wrong. Not much else there to boast about, though.

 

[texasbirdfan]

My list:

Tier 1

1. C.Williams

2. R.Brown

3. Benson

4. Williamson

Tier 2

5. Arrington

6. Edwards

7. M.Jones

8. Clayton

9. M.Williams

Tier 3

10. Gore

11. Shelton

12. H.Miller

13. A.Smith

14. Moates

Tier 4

15. V.Jackson

16. R.Brown

17. J.Campbell

18. A.Rodgers

19. Clarrett

20. F.Gibson

21. C.Henry

22. C.Frye

Tier 5

23. A.Smith (TE)

24. Thorpe

25. McPherson

26. Morency

27. R.White

28. M.Bradley

29. Walter

30. B.Jacobs

31. Barber III

32. Fason

33. Parrish

34. K.Everett

35. Pearman

36. B.Jones

37. Nash

38. Orton

39. Houston

40. Roby

I would put Parish, Barber and White high in your tier 3

 

[P Boy]

Ponyboy,

http://www.nfleurope.com/news/story/8150337

just NFLE players on Supe teams but alot of "not too shabby" players in that article.

Note the date - this is a reference to how great a QB Rohan Davey was going to be because he was burning up NFLE:

Yeah, it sure makes you laugh when you hear talk about these NFL Europe QBs as though they'll be going to the Superbowl one day or something. We heard the same sort of stuff about Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme...

And if you know anything about NFLEurope, which by your statement I assume that you don't, then you would know how far off-base your statement was.Name me one top 10 skill player from NFL Europe over the last 4 years who has been an impact player in the NFL.

NFL Europe was purchased by the NFL after it used to be the World Football League. The World Football League went bankrupt, didn’t play for a 3 years, and then the NFL resurrected it predominantly as a marketing scheme to bring in overseas $$$. The NFL virtually forced NFL teams to send actual promising prospects to Europe during the first 4 years of its ownership to promote the league.

Since 1999, there hasn’t been a decent skill player to come out of NFL Europe and make any kind of waves in the NFL – except perhaps Dante Hall, if you want to really stretch the definition of skill player to a return man.

NFL teams have kept their top prospects close to their home, keeping them in mini-camps and off-season training programs, which enhances their development with the NFL team.

Hell, I‘ll even give you a hand. Here’s the NFL Europe skill position leaders from the past 4 years – after the NFL stopped mandating that NFL teams send its better prospects. Find one – even 1 – guy who has made any NFL impact at a skill position. (I could only find top 5 players from 2000 – if you want the top 10 from 2000, you’ll have to find them yourself)

2000

LEADING PASSERS

Kevin Daft, Sco

Danny Wuerffel, Rhe

Pat Barnes, Fra

Cory Sauter, Bar

Ron Powlus, Ams

Tony Graziani, Bar

LEADING RUSHERS

Aaron Stecker, Sco

Pepe Pearson, Rhe

Brian Shay, Ber

Terry Battle, Bar

Jesse Haynes, Bar

LEADING RECEIVERS

Jermaine Copeland, Bar

Mario Bailey, Fra

L.C. Stevens, Ams

Todd Floyd, Fra

Jeff Ogden, Rhe

2001

LEADING PASSERS

J.Quinn, Ber (JAX)

J.Jackson, Bar (DENV)

M.Bishop, Fran (NE)

S.Wynn, Ams (CLEV)

C.Stoerner, Sco (DALL)

P.Stambaugh, Rhe (NO)

LEADING RUSHERS

M.Green, Bar (TENN)

P.Pearson, Rhe

D.Manns, Fran (DALL)

A.Gray, Sco (PHIL)

M.Hill, Ber (CLEV)

C.Williams, Ams (ARZ)

S.George, Ams

J.Jackson, Bar (DENV)

R.Phillips, Ber (SEAT)

M.Bishop, Fran (NE)

LEADING RECEIVERS

C.Coleman, Ams (TENN)

J.Whalen, Sco (DALL)

T.Insley, Bar (IND)

A.Merritt, Ber (CHI)

D.Jones, Ber (SEAT)

T.Simmons, Bar (NE)

R.Hall, Fran (KC)

D.Hall, Sco (KC)

A.McCullough, Fran

B.Gilmore, Bar (ARZ)

2002

LEADING PASSERS

T.White, Bar (OAK)

K.Daft, Ams (TENN)

T.Husak, Ber (DENV)

J.Hamilton, Fran (TB)

T.Martin, Rhe (PITT)

J.Germaine, Bar (KC)

S.Dreisbach, Sco (DET

H.Goodman, Sco (GB)

C.Alexander, Fran (BU

J.Robertson, Rhe (SF)

R.Cooper, Ams (TENN)

A.White, Ber

T.Taylor, Rhe (DALL)

C.Fair, Bar (CLEV)

M.Jackson, Fran (NYJ)

D.Homer, Bar (BALT)

W.James, Ber (IND)

LEADING RECEIVERS

D.Looker, Ber (STL)

M.Knight, Ams (OAK)

R.Flowers, Bar (DALL)

J.Redmond, Fran (JAX)

K.Hambrick, Ams (BALT

D.Gilliam, Sco (SD)

D.Pitts, Bar (SD)

K.Christian, Ber (CHI

S.Cloman, Rhe (SF)

A.White, Ber

2003

LEADING PASSERS

C.Nall, Sco (GB)

P.Stambaugh, Ber

S.Hill, Ams (MINN)

S.Burford, Bar (SD)

J.Brown, Fran

N.Rolovich, Rhe (DENV)

LEADING RUSHERS

K.Simonton, Sco (BUFF)

A.Denson, Rhe (DET)

J.Lewis, Fran

D.Allen, Ber (JAX)

M.Hicks, Sco (CHI)

F.Moreau, Rhe

S.Irvin, Ber (MIA)

D.Hunter, Bar (BALT)

T.Redmon, Ams (SEA)

J.Chaney, Bar (ATL)

RECEIVING YARDS

M.Hatchette, Ams

M.Lester, Fran (BALT)

R.Baker, Fran (MIA)

E.Shepherd, Sco (CHI)

J.Minardi, Sco (HOUS)

K.Newson, Rhe (MIA)

E.Thurmon, Ber (CHI)

K.Cook, Bar (NO)

J.Skaggs, Ams (WASH)

S.Morey, Bar (PHIL)

 

[-OZ-]

My list:

Tier 1

1. C.Williams

2. R.Brown

3. Benson

4. Williamson

Tier 2

5. Arrington

6. Edwards

7. M.Jones

8. Clayton

9. M.Williams

Tier 3

10. Gore

11. Shelton

12. H.Miller

13. A.Smith

14. Moates

Tier 4

15. V.Jackson

16. R.Brown

17. J.Campbell

18. A.Rodgers

19. Clarrett

20. F.Gibson

21. C.Henry

22. C.Frye

Tier 5

23. A.Smith (TE)

24. Thorpe

25. McPherson

26. Morency

27. R.White

28. M.Bradley

29. Walter

30. B.Jacobs

31. Barber III

32. Fason

33. Parrish

34. K.Everett

35. Pearman

36. B.Jones

37. Nash

38. Orton

39. Houston

40. Roby

Not bad, the one guy noticeably absent IMO is Terrence Murphy, should be right behind Parrish, ahead of Brandon Jones IMO. I personally rank Edwards ahead of Williamson, they should at least be in the same tier.

Aside from that, looks good.

 

[Bri]

Ponyboy,

http://www.nfleurope.com/news/story/8150337

just NFLE players on Supe teams but alot of "not too shabby" players in that article.

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark.

Yep, he got me alright. Dante Hall is a meaningful contributor who played since the NFL took over the European league. Of course, he does it on special teams, but I'll admit I was wrong. Not much else there to boast about, though.

I wasn't trying to....Ponyboy, in regards to two posts.

I think you're mistaken about the date WFAL became NFLE. Hence Kurt Warner and that link.

On to the last 4 years post. For the most part, you are correct and there's been precious few skill position folks the last 4 years.

In the last 4 years, there's been a slew of linemen. Hardnosed hardworking guys that coaches windup preferring to the pamperred NFL folks. Sadly,(for NFL not NFLE depending how ya think of it) I think this NFL trend will continue. Teams that come to mindats, Broncos, Rams, Packers, Bears.

Skill position:

Spergon Wynn played a game or two for Minny, Bouman too.

Rather than waste some time looking, there's been a few like that. Hutchinson, Quinn unexciting QBs.

Brian Finneran, Dane Looker, Kevin Swayne, and Bryan Gilmore.

I don't recall when Marcus Robinson played there. Before his NFL career or when he was trying to get his sh together after he got hurt.

As for Dante+return men, there's also Michael Lewis and that Brightful that was on the Ravens and now the G-men. They're fine return men IMO but you're right, of little consequence in FF.

So there's been some skill position players but relatively unexciting.

I'm fairly confident this year will be different though. For whatever reason, it has gone like that. "No one" for a few years, then a bunch. I think this is a good year for skill position players in NFLE.

There's a couple WRs Ruvell Martin and Ricky Bryant which score every week or almost every week. BB has mentioned Bryant and Cedric James(another WR)in offseason interviews. The Pats lost WRs this offseason, they'll have a shot.

The Titans...mentioned, who is ahead of them on the depth chart.

National player Scott McCready has broken every NFLE receiving record(or so it seems) and every game review I see is as if he's a Chrebet or Proehl type that might not be the best athlete but will make any and every catch you ask of him. I think alot of teams could use a guy like that.

Little John Flowers could be nothing with Blaylock on the Jets now. That little guy scores a bunch in NFLE though. He's his team's goaline back. The Jets didn't use Jordan alot, he could probably fill that role.

Mike Gomez, as far as I know, is the only healthy Bills TE right now. They have talked to Marcellius Rivers(formerly of NYG) but haven't signed him that I know of.

This post is getting long, there's bunch of guys that due to free agency and/or injury may play this year.

 

[Bri]

missed McCready's injury but here's a quote from an NFLEurope.com article:I can’t end this week without mentioning how sad it was to see Scott McCready limping off the field last week with a season ending ACL tear. Scott’s performances this year have been outstanding, and I agree with his head coach Jack Bicknell when he said this week that he thought Scotty was the best receiver in the league this season regardless of being a national or not. He has single handedly raised the profile of the national program this year and continued a legacy that was begun by Scott Couper of tough British receivers whose selfless contributions to the league have been admired by players, coaches and fans across the world. Scott has recovered from a similar injury in the past and I know that he will be working hard already to rehab it again this time. I really hope that we will see Scott back on the field again very soon.

 

[P Boy]

Don't want to let this slip too far. It's a good thread.BTW - as always, I'm enjoying the good arguments. Great way to get fresh info & find out why guys are passionate about certain players - pro or con.One thing I do know. At least half the guys listed are going to be mediocre players to total failures at the NFL level. It would be the same or worse with any list I posted.We also know there are going to be unheralded or scorned guys that aren't on all but a few lists - and way down on those - who will sprout into very solid to stud NFL players.Now, the question as always is which half are the flops, and which hidden gems will step up?One guy I'd like to throw out there as way under the radar and could walk into a decent situation other than Jacobs - Craig Bragg. I still can't figure out why he went so late in the NFL draft. I mean, I know the history of UCLA WRs in the NFL, but this guy, while not really sexy, had a great college career, makes big plays (how, I'm not sure, but he finds a way), is relatively fearless in going after the football, has great hands, great return guy, plus Favre has shown that he'll throw the ball to guys down the food chain in the WR rankings if he knows the guy will catch it (Antonio Chatman, anyone?). If Walker does hold out, Ferguson doesn't seem to be turning into the WR they thought he could be, could this guy get some looks? He could sure make a name for himself on return teams, which might get him a few passes thrown his way.Another name that nags at me & is unheralded is Kay-Jay Harris. Sure, Brown is the guy in MIA, but if he gets hurt or washes out for some unforseen reason, I like his chances as well as any other RB on MIA's roster, excpet maybe Gordon - maybe. I know he's 26, but he was a very good RB in college, has good RB size, who knows...Still like Brackins to make some noise in the next couple of years, though he probably won't get much love this year. Tons of talent & has great size, has some learning to do, but his head seems to be right now. Thoughts?

 

[Colin Dowling]

I'll post the full thing when we're finished, but I'm loving how I'm doing in Z10.I had acquired a fair number of high picks through trades, in addition to "earning" the #1 slot. (This was my first year in the league, so I was building for year 2 and beyond, but I still should have fared better than being the worst team. :( ) However, like most Z leagues, this one is full of quality Fantasy players, which makes it a lot of fun. Anyway....My picks in Z10.1.01 - Carnell WIlliams1.04 - JJ Arrington2.03 - Ryan Moats2.04 - Marion Barber III3.01 - Adrian McPherson4.01 - Mark Bradley 5.01 - Erasmus JamesI was more than happy to get 4 RBs in the first two rounds. I think Moats has a chance to play a role, and I own JJones too, so Barber was a solid choice IMO. I wanted Charlie Frye at 3.01, but he went the pick before me @ 2.12. So, I decided on either taking McPherson at 3.01 or hoping Andrew Walter fell to me at 4.01. I opted for the upside of McPherson, who's Arena League performance sold me. I didn't want to select Bradley as I don't like incubating young WRs, but I had him ranked in the mid-20's so at pick 37, he was a quick selection. As for James, I can't believe I got him in the 5th, particularly since guys like Darren Sproles, Damien Nash, and Anthony Davis were selected ahead of him. He's a very good up the field pass-rusher and if he can stay healthy, he could be very good quickly for the Vikings.Colin

 

[Kirby]

I'll post the full thing when we're finished, but I'm loving how I'm doing in Z10.

I had acquired a fair number of high picks through trades, in addition to "earning" the #1 slot. (This was my first year in the league, so I was building for year 2 and beyond, but I still should have fared better than being the worst team. :( ) However, like most Z leagues, this one is full of quality Fantasy players, which makes it a lot of fun.

Anyway....

My picks in Z10.

1.01 - Carnell WIlliams

1.04 - JJ Arrington

2.03 - Ryan Moats

2.04 - Marion Barber III

3.01 - Adrian McPherson

4.01 - Mark Bradley

5.01 - Erasmus James

I was more than happy to get 4 RBs in the first two rounds. I think Moats has a chance to play a role, and I own JJones too, so Barber was a solid choice IMO. I wanted Charlie Frye at 3.01, but he went the pick before me @ 2.12. So, I decided on either taking McPherson at 3.01 or hoping Andrew Walter fell to me at 4.01. I opted for the upside of McPherson, who's Arena League performance sold me. I didn't want to select Bradley as I don't like incubating young WRs, but I had him ranked in the mid-20's so at pick 37, he was a quick selection. As for James, I can't believe I got him in the 5th, particularly since guys like Darren Sproles, Damien Nash, and Anthony Davis were selected ahead of him. He's a very good up the field pass-rusher and if he can stay healthy, he could be very good quickly for the Vikings.

Colin

Wow.. that's lookin pretty good.. in Z12 i got1.10 Frank Gore

2.10 Charlie Frye

3.10 Jason Campbell

4.10 Craphonso Thorpe

 

[Colin Dowling]

I'll post the full thing when we're finished, but I'm loving how I'm doing in Z10.

I had acquired a fair number of high picks through trades, in addition to "earning" the #1 slot. (This was my first year in the league, so I was building for year 2 and beyond, but I still should have fared better than being the worst team.  :( )  However, like most Z leagues, this one is full of quality Fantasy players, which makes it a lot of fun. 

Anyway....

My picks in Z10.

1.01 - Carnell WIlliams

1.04 - JJ Arrington

2.03 - Ryan Moats

2.04 - Marion Barber III

3.01 - Adrian McPherson

4.01 - Mark Bradley

5.01 - Erasmus James

I was more than happy to get 4 RBs in the first two rounds.  I think Moats has a chance to play a role, and I own JJones too, so Barber was a solid choice IMO.  I wanted Charlie Frye at 3.01, but he went the pick before me @ 2.12.  So, I decided on either taking McPherson at 3.01 or hoping Andrew Walter fell to me at 4.01.  I opted for the upside of McPherson, who's Arena League performance sold me.  I didn't want to select Bradley as I don't like incubating young WRs, but I had him ranked in the mid-20's so at pick 37, he was a quick selection.  As for James, I can't believe I got him in the 5th, particularly since guys like Darren Sproles, Damien Nash, and Anthony Davis were selected ahead of him.  He's a very good up the field pass-rusher and if he can stay healthy, he could be very good quickly for the Vikings.

Colin

Wow.. that's lookin pretty good.. in Z12 i got1.10 Frank Gore

2.10 Charlie Frye

3.10 Jason Campbell

4.10 Craphonso Thorpe

I passed on Campbell for McPherson. Even though logic dictates that since the Redskins gave up so much to get him, he has job security, Dan Snyder's "running" of his team doens't inspire much confidence that Campbell will get a long opportunity, IMO.COlin

 

[Spike]

Here's what I got in Z30:1.03 - Cedric Benson1.08 - Mike Williams2.02 - Ryan Moats2.11 - Vernand Morency3.02 - Marion Barber3.03 - Odell Thurman3.05 - Barrett RuudLike you, I had acquired a goodly amount of high picks prior to the draft and traded for others (like the 2.11 and 3.05) during the draft.I was really happy to have come out with the RB talent that I did. In fact, I had others in mind at the 2.11 and 3.02 picks but felt Morency and Barber had too much value to NOT pick them.

 

[Bloom]

I was really happy to have come out with the RB talent that I did. In fact, I had others in mind at the 2.11 and 3.02 picks but felt Morency and Barber had too much value to NOT pick them.

i totally agree with this. just about any time after the 20th pick, you have to take the talented RB, regardless of how you feel about the situation.