Eli Manning to suck in the NFL (1 Viewer)

[Solidsteel Rats]

SUCK IT UP>>>GO G_MEN

 

[gump]

I am a Giants fan and I am happy with Eli, but he basically has to be the next Joe Montana to be worth what the Giants gave up for him

Who did the Chargers get for those picks?

 

[Yenrub]

I am a Giants fan and I am happy with Eli, but he basically has to be the next Joe Montana to be worth what the Giants gave up for him

Who did the Chargers get for those picks?

I don't know for sure. I think one of them was Merriman. To me it really doesn't matter who they got with those picks knowing that Rivers and Ben could have been without trading away a thing

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I am a Giants fan and I am happy with Eli, but he basically has to be the next Joe Montana to be worth what the Giants gave up for him

Who did the Chargers get for those picks?

I don't know for sure. I think one of them was Merriman. To me it really doesn't matter who they got with those picks knowing that Rivers and Ben could have been without trading away a thing

Giants receivedRights to 2004 1st Overall Pick, Eli Manning. Chargers receivedRights to 2004 4th Overall Pick, Philip Rivers. 2005 1st Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Linebacker Shawne Merriman. 2004 3rd Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Kicker Nate Kaeding. 2005 5th Round Draft Pick - Traded to Tampa Bay Buccaneers for Left Tackle Roman Oben.

 

[gump]

To me it really doesn't matter who they got with those picks knowing that Rivers and Ben could have been without trading away a thing

None of us know what Rivers or Ben would have been on this Giants team.At this point, Eli has accomplished alot...

 

[Native]

Congrats to Eli. Hes one hell of a great QB.

 

[Koya]

The fact is, in the most important FOUR GAME stretch of Eli's career, the guy has been money. The Giants did not get to the Super Bowl in spite of Eli, they got there in large part BECAUSE of Eli. Some great throws. Clutch play. NO mistakes (well, not major ones and a bit of luck helps there... but Eli didnt give many chances for the defense to capitalize upon). In NO single game did the Giants have to overcome Eli and the fact is he played better than his stats big time - especially considering some of the key drops.

After being a pretty big supporter of Eli as he has been held to a ridiculous standard, a month plus ago I was really doubting whether he could overcome the insecurity or body language or whatever and get over the hump. Boy, has he ever over these last 4 games.

 

[Enforcer]

.. this isn't a fishing trip, but I think Eli Manning folds like a cheap suit in the NFL.

Of course its a fishing trip. You've given no metric for measuring what "to suck in the NFL" is and there's no chance you'll return to the thread and admit defeat.

Just doesn't seem to be the Peyton Jr. clone that everyone seems to make him out to be.

I don't think I've ever seen one claim that he's a Peyton clone

Am I alone in this thinking?

Probably not alone. There are lots of tools on the Internet willing to say anything to get a rise out of people.

Will answer yours.

No, you won't. You'll wait for the next opportunity to claim intellectual superiority on someone and just be a general ####### to strangers.

 

[tommyGunZ]

as much as i was pissed when Eli dissed San Diego on draft day 4 years ago, it's hard to root against the kid.

to Eli, he's been a dominant QB this year proving the nay sayers wrong.

 

[redman]

I've been impressed with his play over the last 3 games. The defense and running game deserve a lot of credit for the team winning though. Eli has done a good job of making plays that are there and not screwing up.

This is sort of the head-scratcher for me. Where has this guy been? Is this just another "hot streak" for Eli, or is this finally the "Eli Manning" that the Giants have expected from the day that they dealt for him?

We will only be able to answer this next season.

 

[Koya]

I've been impressed with his play over the last 3 games. The defense and running game deserve a lot of credit for the team winning though. Eli has done a good job of making plays that are there and not screwing up.

This is sort of the head-scratcher for me. Where has this guy been? Is this just another "hot streak" for Eli, or is this finally the "Eli Manning" that the Giants have expected from the day that they dealt for him?

We will only be able to answer this next season.

If he can have a few more "hot streaks" like this come playoff time, we Giants fan's won't have much to complain about (though I'm sure we will find something, and I'm sure the Eli haters will always find something else)

 

[Tom Servo]

.. this isn't a fishing trip, but I think Eli Manning folds like a cheap suit in the NFL.

Of course its a fishing trip. You've given no metric for measuring what "to suck in the NFL" is and there's no chance you'll return to the thread and admit defeat.

Just doesn't seem to be the Peyton Jr. clone that everyone seems to make him out to be.

I don't think I've ever seen one claim that he's a Peyton clone

Am I alone in this thinking?

Probably not alone. There are lots of tools on the Internet willing to say anything to get a rise out of people.

Will answer yours.

No, you won't. You'll wait for the next opportunity to claim intellectual superiority on someone and just be a general ####### to strangers.

Well put. Consider Mr. Pickles and permanently banished to the FFA where he considers himself a legend among men.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I see this different. I see that Mr. Pickles said Eli Manning would suck and Mr. Pickles is clearly wrong. if you still think he sucks than you don't understand the game of football. Now if you use the work suck to mean average or slightly above average then you would be correct.

I'm usually one of the people defending Eli but it really depends on what you mean by "suck". He was the #1 overall pick and has never had a QB rating over 77 for a season over the course of three and a half seasons. If you take into consideration he was the #1 pick and is paid like it I don't think you could describe that performance as average. If you take into consideration what the franchise gave up to get him then yeah, he might suck.I expect him to have several good years when he's surrounded by different coaches and in a different city but he hasn't proven he can have a QB rating of better than 77 yet. People say Rivers "sucks" and he's had QB ratings of 92 and 80 in his two seasons as a starter. Plus he didn't cost the franchise nearly as much to acquire as Manning cost the NYG.It all depends on what your expectations are when you apply the term "sucks".

First QB rating is not a very good judgment for rating QB's. Guys that dink and dunk will always have better ratings (Chad Pennington is the God of that). But, your point about expectations is correct. the problem is that when analyzing a player expectation doesn't mean anything. Either he is a top 15 QB or he isn't; the rest is all about the value of the guy. For the large signing bonus he was paid and what they gave up his value was/is not good. But, he is a capable QB and has made the playoffs every year and is an above Average QB.

I just want to point out that while Eli has stepped up this does not mean he is an elite QB. He is and was an above average QB. yes he has taken some strides, but the main difference I see is that the Ol has been giving him some time and Plaxico is getting healthy. I am a broken record, but football is a team game and your team can bail you out and make you look good if they have talent. Brady throws 3 picks and his team bails him out and they win so nobody will say anything. People say Roethlisberger has a ring and he was one because his team bailed him out of a horrible performance. I said this a few weeks ago and I still believe it, Eli is an above average QB with the ability to get better and I think that is still true.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Again, so Josh Reed/Vincent Jackson/Kevin Walter are all much better #2 WR's than Toomer? Is that the gist of your argument?

Yes

Okay, at this point I think we can call this fight. BB wins in an 8th round KO.

DOWN GOES TENSION!! DOWN GOES TENSION!!! DOWN GOES TENSION!!!!

Let's not have selective response here. Read my sig, football is a TEAM game. Don't you think that having Gates and LT2 helps Rivers (who is worse than Eli and I don't see how any SD fan can be happy with the ducks Rivers throws)? Don't you think the OL protection has something to do with QB's playing well? Don't you think that moving a mediocre guard to become your starting LT could have an impact when Eli gets torched from his blind side? Don't you think the receivers matter? Have you guys watched Toomer? He dropped 5 passes in one game! He is the slowest WR in the league and he simply does not come back to balls. I can't argue this if you simply don't get these critical facts. Have you ever watched completions to Shockey? He gets NO separation (when he is playing which isn't often). Plax can't even make a cut he rounds every pattern this year because of his injury. The Giants have tried to address their weakness at WR almost every year (2nd round for Tim Carter, 1st round on Moss and 1st round for Steve Smith) and they have failed to get a usable guy. I think Steve Smith will be good and then he drops an easy bomb (I still think he will be good). Moss is terrible, he mis-runs his routes (caused an INT last game) and he doesn't have the YAC they thought he would.

So you guys flamed me that Toomer was better than Vincent Jackson and were critical of Eli. Do you see how weak Toomer is? He gets catches because teams barely cover him and he still drops passes (2 yesterday). Any receiver can make some plays if the defense doesn't pay attention to you. Toomer is a mediocre #3 WR and is one of the worst #2's in football. He drops so many passes and when he tales NO coverage away from others he is a weak link.Edited to add that I had to write the above for therapy because I almost lost my mind when Toomer dropped the wide open play letting the ball come to his chest instead of using those things called hands.

 

[Joe T]

I think after three straight years in the playoffs, multiple twenty TD seasons, and two playoff wins; Eli has not "sucked" in the NFL.

dammit I was going to bump this today.I would take Eli over Romo going forward.

...not saying you're wrong, but why do you feel that way? Certainly Eli has now "won" more when it counts; but in terms of numbers, Romo trounces him in virtually every category.

I'm talking in terms of NFL QB value, not fantasy value.Eli is a better NFL QB than Romo at this point.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Eli outplayed Favre by a wide margin yesterday. On the road. In difficult weather. Very impressive.

also, Kevin Gilbride has been calling some of the best games of his career. Doesn't normally stick with the run as much as he has been, but it's helped take a lot of pressure off Eli.

 

[Koya]

Again, so Josh Reed/Vincent Jackson/Kevin Walter are all much better #2 WR's than Toomer? Is that the gist of your argument?

Yes

Okay, at this point I think we can call this fight. BB wins in an 8th round KO.

DOWN GOES TENSION!! DOWN GOES TENSION!!! DOWN GOES TENSION!!!!

Let's not have selective response here. Read my sig, football is a TEAM game. Don't you think that having Gates and LT2 helps Rivers (who is worse than Eli and I don't see how any SD fan can be happy with the ducks Rivers throws)? Don't you think the OL protection has something to do with QB's playing well? Don't you think that moving a mediocre guard to become your starting LT could have an impact when Eli gets torched from his blind side? Don't you think the receivers matter? Have you guys watched Toomer? He dropped 5 passes in one game! He is the slowest WR in the league and he simply does not come back to balls. I can't argue this if you simply don't get these critical facts. Have you ever watched completions to Shockey? He gets NO separation (when he is playing which isn't often). Plax can't even make a cut he rounds every pattern this year because of his injury. The Giants have tried to address their weakness at WR almost every year (2nd round for Tim Carter, 1st round on Moss and 1st round for Steve Smith) and they have failed to get a usable guy. I think Steve Smith will be good and then he drops an easy bomb (I still think he will be good). Moss is terrible, he mis-runs his routes (caused an INT last game) and he doesn't have the YAC they thought he would.

So you guys flamed me that Toomer was better than Vincent Jackson and were critical of Eli. Do you see how weak Toomer is? He gets catches because teams barely cover him and he still drops passes (2 yesterday). Any receiver can make some plays if the defense doesn't pay attention to you. Toomer is a mediocre #3 WR and is one of the worst #2's in football. He drops so many passes and when he tales NO coverage away from others he is a weak link.Edited to add that I had to write the above for therapy because I almost lost my mind when Toomer dropped the wide open play letting the ball come to his chest instead of using those things called hands.

Yes, Toomer drops too many balls... but the guy comes through big time often enough to compensate for those mistakes. That catch on the sideline where he got both feet down (somehow)? Incredible. Toomer may be my favorite Giant ever. He is VERY close to Phil Simms at this point (and that is helped by the fact hat his three TD game a few years back won me my first fantasy super bowl)

 

[Abraham]

Eli outplayed Favre by a wide margin yesterday. On the road. In difficult weather. Very impressive.also, Kevin Gilbride has been calling some of the best games of his career. Doesn't normally stick with the run as much as he has been, but it's helped take a lot of pressure off Eli.

 

[bradyfan]

Sheesh, every dog as its day.

I hold Brett Favre responsible for this Eli Manning bandwagon fallacy.

 

[Tick]

Eli outplayed Favre by a wide margin yesterday. On the road. In difficult weather. Very impressive.also, Kevin Gilbride has been calling some of the best games of his career. Doesn't normally stick with the run as much as he has been, but it's helped take a lot of pressure off Eli.

That has been amazing to me. I was in Rochester while he was so brutally bad with the Bills, and I can't believe the games he's called this season. He could have won with the Bledsoe/Henry/Moulds Bills if he had called games like this.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Eli outplayed Favre by a wide margin yesterday. On the road. In difficult weather. Very impressive.also, Kevin Gilbride has been calling some of the best games of his career. Doesn't normally stick with the run as much as he has been, but it's helped take a lot of pressure off Eli.

That has been amazing to me. I was in Rochester while he was so brutally bad with the Bills, and I can't believe the games he's called this season. He could have won with the Bledsoe/Henry/Moulds Bills if he had called games like this.

People learn. It's one of the great things about life.

 

[Koya]

Sheesh, every dog as its day.

I hold Brett Favre responsible for this Eli Manning bandwagon fallacy.

Or four consecutive days, three of them under the pressure of NFL playoff football.

 

[dickey moe]

Oof

 

[Native]

I thought this thread would get bumped...

 

[joffer]

Sheesh, every dog as its day.I hold Brett Favre responsible for this Eli Manning bandwagon fallacy.

good call

 

[gump]

Sheesh, every dog as its day.I hold Brett Favre responsible for this Eli Manning bandwagon fallacy.

good call

 

[joffer]

I know I don't usually post here, and no.. this isn't a fishing trip, but I think Eli Manning folds like a cheap suit in the NFL. Just doesn't seem to be the Peyton Jr. clone that everyone seems to make him out to be. Am I alone in this thinking?

no, not alonewrong, but not alone

 

[Das Boot]

Eli Manning to suck in the NFL, I'm calling it now

oof.

 

[piratemike]

Oof

 

[Jason Wood]

I think it's now officially safe to close this thread, Pickles made a prediction four years ago that didn't come true. As someone who has to make predictions about every player and team in the league every season, I know firsthand how humbling it can be. Debating whether Manning will "suck" or not is obviously a dead issue.