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Explosion in New York City (2 Viewers)

SaintsInDome2006 said:
whitem0nkey said:
nice to have some luck on our side

Two thieves accidentally helped to disable his second pressure cooker bomb left inside a rolling suitcase on....

In doing so, investigators believe they inadvertently disabled the explosive, sources said. That allowed investigators to examine the cellphone attached to the bomb intact and discover that it was connected to the family of Rahami.

From there, they were able to identify pictures on social media of Rahami's family and of him, and they matched one of his photos to surveillance footage captured in Manhattan.

Thieves Helped Crack the Chelsea Bombing Case
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I love this. NYC's criminal element is not to be messed with.
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damn. those guys are seriously lucky that thing didn't go off... like the one in NJ did with the robot working on it.

but this suspect- he used his own phone? wow.

 
somebdoy else and l mentioned it before- but anybody else think this is a test/trial run-through for something else?

the cell sends the dumbest rubber dingy rapids guy into the city and tells him to put them in two spots. rest of the cell watches how NYC handles its response and plans around it for the next one.

or this really is a rubber dingy rapids guy.

 
Either there are some smart people using this guy as a decoy or he really is the dumbest terrorist ever. 

I'm obviously rooting on the latter.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Very proud of how the FBI and especially the NYPD and locals there in Linden/Elizabethtown, NJ...I salute all of you for getting this guy in custody fast. 

-Just my opinion but other potential lone wolfs will see this and realize there is no way they can pull it off and get away with it for long. They might at least think twice. 

Also boarding a plane for New York in less than 2 weeks, quite frankly couldn't feel safer after watching them work in real time the last 48 hours.

-Also though as others have mentioned, this guy might have made a lot of mistakes or was an amateur but that's likely the type of folks we are going to see try and do this the next many years. I doubt that ISIS is truly going to funnel in large cells of their folks on the other side of the planet. Instead, it's highly more likely they recruit Americans or folks who already live here. 

Either way. great job by the men and women of law enforcement and also our good folks in the FD and ERS, hats off to all of you.   
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I think this is an under-appreciated point.

There are two types of terrorists, imo:

1. Those that don't care if they die (extremely dangerous)

2. Those that don't want to die (not as dangerous)

As is shown in 9/11, terrorists that don't mind dying can do a lot of damage.  But I doubt that there are truly that many people that fall into this category.  If there were....there would be a lot more terrorist attacks than there are.

Which leaves us with the 2nd category, those that don't want to die.  They can get away with atrocities in other countries and "escape" much easier.  It's quite difficult for a man to get across the border, plan and coordinate a terrorist attack, kill a bunch of people, and get back home safe or even just get away safe.  It's very tough.

The 9/11 bombers didn't care if they died.  The guy in Orlando apparently didn't care if he died.  People like that are dangerous.  But guys like this, who apparently didn't want to be caught...they have to realize that it's quite difficult to pull of a terrorist attack, due to the strong law enforcement, cameras, etc.

 
shader said:
I think this is an under-appreciated point.

There are two types of terrorists, imo:

1. Those that don't care if they die (extremely dangerous)

2. Those that don't want to die (not as dangerous)

As is shown in 9/11, terrorists that don't mind dying can do a lot of damage.  But I doubt that there are truly that many people that fall into this category.  If there were....there would be a lot more terrorist attacks than there are.

Which leaves us with the 2nd category, those that don't want to die.  They can get away with atrocities in other countries and "escape" much easier.  It's quite difficult for a man to get across the border, plan and coordinate a terrorist attack, kill a bunch of people, and get back home safe or even just get away safe.  It's very tough.

The 9/11 bombers didn't care if they died.  The guy in Orlando apparently didn't care if he died.  People like that are dangerous.  But guys like this, who apparently didn't want to be caught...they have to realize that it's quite difficult to pull of a terrorist attack, due to the strong law enforcement, cameras, etc.
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:goodposting:

You articulated a lot of thoughts I had brewing in this warped head and I like your post. Agree with all of it. Those that don't care about dying are technically mentally ill to me. They don't have a lot of Psychiatry in the Middle East and so I think here in the United States we are able to see it more as mental illness than ISIS. I view ISIS in the US as a brand no different than Trump in some ways much to the chagrin of many myself included. 

Wonderful post, there are definitely 2 distinct types.  

 
fantasycurse42 said:
IDK, put me in the #### this guy camp. 

He wanted to kill anyone - children, seniors, it didn't matter. I was 4-6 blocks from there from about 2pm until 530pm with my two kids hanging with another family with two little children as well. A ton of other little kids running around playgrounds as well. Any of these families could've hit the gates and headed up 23rd St and been in harms way. 

Squeeze whatever we can from him and lock him away until he dies, his rights are out the window IMO - based on what I've read, they've got him dead to rights... 
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FC, emotionally speaking I'm really not that far removed from you. Like you, I want this guy to die, and I don't care if he suffers first.

But we can't govern that way. His rights are NOT out the window. We are not that kind of people. We are better than our enemies. 

 
El Floppo said:
somebdoy else and l mentioned it before- but anybody else think this is a test/trial run-through for something else?

the cell sends the dumbest rubber dingy rapids guy into the city and tells him to put them in two spots. rest of the cell watches how NYC handles its response and plans around it for the next one.

or this really is a rubber dingy rapids guy.
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Everything seems to say this was just a dope or a limited set of dopes.  

Everyone from the NYPD, to the citizens of NY, to the FBI, to the FDNY, to the federal government's intelligence infrastructure should be applauded for their response to the attack and for the infrastructure they put in place before the attack to minimize the damage.  I hope we can all agree this is a case where the efforts of everyone in every part of the government worked.  They can't get every lone-wolfish nutjob, but if this is both the work they've put in to prevent something like this and then their response, well I feel at least somewhat better.

 
El Floppo said:
somebdoy else and l mentioned it before- but anybody else think this is a test/trial run-through for something else?

the cell sends the dumbest rubber dingy rapids guy into the city and tells him to put them in two spots. rest of the cell watches how NYC handles its response and plans around it for the next one.

or this really is a rubber dingy rapids guy.
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I think you are giving the terrorists a little too much credit here. I think we've seen that there are a lot of really dumb ones.

 
timschochet said:
Surprised you have to ask. Because we're a nation of laws? Because anybody accused of a crime must be found guilty in a court of law? Because torture is a human rights violation and would put us on a moral footing with our enemies? 

I could go on, but that should suffice. 
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I 100% agree. This is absolutely how we need to treat these people. (wink, wink)

 
I don't quite follow the decoy theory. Do you mean from the standpoint of these #######s thinking how do we set off a bomb but get away without being apprehended? Or in taking the same approach they used this time, but hitting a higher impact target? I guess I don't see where the "see how NYC responds" fits in with the latter. 

 
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whoknew said:
I think you are giving the terrorists a little too much credit here. I think we've seen that there are a lot of really dumb ones.
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Kinda by nature, the smart ones don't typically execute the plan. You'd sorta run outta management pretty quick with that business plan. I don't think any of the higher ups are prepared to sacrifice themselves like they ask the foot soldiers to.

 
RUSF18 said:
I don't quite follow the decoy theory. Do you mean from the standpoint of these #######s thinking how do we set off a bomb but get away without being apprehended? Or in taking the same approach they used this time, but hitting a higher impact target? I guess I don't see where the "see how NYC responds" fits in with the latter. 
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set off the bomb and see how police react... dunno. always hear about multiple explosions in the middle east- 2nd and 3rd ones set up to hit first responders or to get people fleeing the scene. something to do with that, perhaps?

 
timschochet said:
FC, emotionally speaking I'm really not that far removed from you. Like you, I want this guy to die, and I don't care if he suffers first.

But we can't govern that way. His rights are NOT out the window. We are not that kind of people. We are better than our enemies. 
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My life > his rights imo 

I'm not even thinking vengeance so much as we need the information so I don't have to be kilt.  So, yeah, if we get close to a few lines of our good pal's rights in favor of letting nice people not be kilt?  I'm good.

 
El Floppo said:
set off the bomb and see how police react... dunno. always hear about multiple explosions in the middle east- 2nd and 3rd ones set up to hit first responders or to get people fleeing the scene. something to do with that, perhaps?
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Or just as a decoy, could tie up resources during an investigation or shift attention elsewhere before a "real" attack. 

 
Otis said:
My life > his rights imo 

I'm not even thinking vengeance so much as we need the information so I don't have to be kilt.  So, yeah, if we get close to a few lines of our good pal's rights in favor of letting nice people not be kilt?  I'm good.
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Haven't we done all this already?  I thought it was pretty much proven that info gleaned from waterboarding and the black site program proved to be worthless.  

 
timschochet said:
FC, emotionally speaking I'm really not that far removed from you. Like you, I want this guy to die, and I don't care if he suffers first.

But we can't govern that way. His rights are NOT out the window. We are not that kind of people. We are better than our enemies. 
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disagree completely with most of your last sentence, but you knew that.  Waterboarding extravaganza for that dude who had intentions of killing anyone including your kids.   Oh, and it doesn't take much to be "better than our enemies".  We could cut off the dude's fingers, toes, ears,  & waterboard the crap out of him & STILL be better than our enemies.  That you can take to the bank.

 
I wish one of these threads would actually focus on the facts of the case and not devolve into a partisan pissing match over rights/constitution/mine is bigger than yours...

Dare to dream

 
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beer 30 said:
I wish one of these threads would actually focus on the facts of the case and not devolve into a partisan pissing match over rights/constitution/mine is bigger than yours...

Dare to dream
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That discussion started when one guy Otis wrote that he wanted this man tortured. I don't think that's a good idea and I wrote why. I don't especially think it's partisan: plenty of conservatives agree with me, and plenty of liberals agree with Otis. It just depends on your POV.

 
beer 30 said:
I wish one of these threads would actually focus on the facts of the case and not devolve into a partisan pissing match over rights/constitution/mine is bigger than yours...

Dare to dream
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The suspect has been apprehended and by definition has political motives.  What more would you like to discuss and how that is apolitical? 

We are now in the why phase I would suggest but how would you see things differently?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Ok everyone in favor of droning New Jersey, say aye. Manhattanites are not allowed to vote, or the Bridge 'n'Tunnel crowd.
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bring it baby.  if sandy didn't break us, none of your stinking drone strikes will.  jersey strong.

 
Smack Tripper said:
The suspect has been apprehended and by definition has political motives.  What more would you like to discuss and how that is apolitical? 

We are now in the why phase I would suggest but how would you see things differently?
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I'd like to know about the 5 guys that were arrested last night in an SUV laden with weapons and their connection to all of this. I find it not coincidental that there was another attack in MN over the same weekend slappy in NY decides to voice his dissatisfaction with 'murica by trying to blow up areas of what should have been high traffic.

I just get the feeling there is a lot more to this bumbling idiot than has been told so far. THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!!!!

 
beer 30 said:
I'd like to know about the 5 guys that were arrested last night in an SUV laden with weapons and their connection to all of this. I find it not coincidental that there was another attack in MN over the same weekend slappy in NY decides to voice his dissatisfaction with 'murica by trying to blow up areas of what should have been high traffic.

I just get the feeling there is a lot more to this bumbling idiot than has been told so far. THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!!!!
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The five guys are "not in custody". 

 
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