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FBI accused of leaking private data to NYT after Project Veritas raid (1 Viewer)

Boston said:
That is the issue that is getting pushed aside…as I have posted a few times, the issue is not whether you think Project Veritas is doing God’s work or is the devil ( that is a deflection) but why the FBI conducted the raid and how that info got to the New York Times almost immediately…it feels like some are ok with this because it is a media source they do not like and the fact that many in the media have shown little interest in this event is pretty astounding as it represents a direct shot at their profession and you would think they would be petrified of the precedent it is potentially setting.
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A.  Who is saying they are ok with it if there was wrongdoing by the FBI here?

B.  We don't know...what we have so far are claims by O'Keefe and little more.  I think its reasonable to be skeptical of anything he claims.

 
sho nuff said:
ABC lost credibility in the eyes of people who already think they have none (and think O'Keefe has some).

You think Trump beat Hillary because of Veritas?   This makes zero sense.

You also think DeSantis won because of that?  Again...makes little sense.
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I guess you’ll have to check the exit polling and get back with me.  

 
the moops said:
Would anyone be surprised if O'Keefe himself leaked this to create the exact narrative that is playing out?
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He leaked his own private conversations with his attorney to the NYT when he is actively suing the NYT. Come on even you aren't this naive. 

 
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sho nuff said:
A.  Who is saying they are ok with it if there was wrongdoing by the FBI here?

B.  We don't know...what we have so far are claims by O'Keefe and little more.  I think its reasonable to be skeptical of anything he claims.
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So you don't think the FBI raided his house and took his sensitive information for Bidens daughter's diary? Or just the part where NYT ran a story with the private information the next day? Because both of those happened. It's the part with how NYT got that info so fast that's in dispute. 

 
Insein said:
So you don't think the FBI raided his house and took his sensitive information for Bidens daughter's diary? Or just the part where NYT ran a story with the private information the next day? Because both of those happened. It's the part with how NYT got that info so fast that's in dispute. 
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I think the FBI raided...what was their cause to do so and who leaked what is where we are up in the air.

 
Insein said:
I agree. But I have posted other links since then. I can change the opening link if that makes people feel better. 
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And if this is true, then those responsible should be held accountable. That is how the system is supposed to work. And if the whole FBI is rotten, then that needs to be addressed too. Democracies should be ruled by laws. Yes, sometimes there is a push and shove to those laws but it shouldn't devolve to civil war. It has to go both ways though. One side can't abide by the rules and have the other play partisan politics. There are either rules and laws or there's not.

 
Boston said:
That is the issue that is getting pushed aside…as I have posted a few times, the issue is not whether you think Project Veritas is doing God’s work or is the devil ( that is a deflection) but why the FBI conducted the raid and how that info got to the New York Times almost immediately…it feels like some are ok with this because it is a media source they do not like and the fact that many in the media have shown little interest in this event is pretty astounding as it represents a direct shot at their profession and you would think they would be petrified of the precedent it is potentially setting.
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If some git is arrested for impersonating a cop, and pulling people over, actual police 🚨 are not going to losing sleep over the bone chilling precedent that is being set.

 
So I guess all the joking about no evidence was wrong, and Insein and anybody that could infer busted glass from a swinging hammer were right and the naysayers were wrong. 

The judge told a newspaper that they can't print Project Vertias's leaked materials and that they can't do certain other things in light of the ruling. Huge news. 

 
rockaction said:
So I guess all the joking about no evidence was wrong, and Insein and anybody that could infer busted glass from a swinging hammer were right and the naysayers were wrong. 

The judge told a newspaper that they can't print Project Vertias's leaked materials and that they can't do certain other things in light of the ruling. Huge news. 
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Did anyone say there was no evidence? Or did they say let's wait and see what evidence there is? Again, if there was a leak or there was collusion between the FBI and NYT, then by all means charge them. I don't think anyone will disagree with pursuing charges if there was a law broken.

Where is all this uproar about upholding law and order with the January 6th defendants?

 
Rockchild said:
Did anyone say there was no evidence? Or did they say let's wait and see what evidence there is? Again, if there was a leak or there was collusion between the FBI and NYT, then by all means charge them. I don't think anyone will disagree with pursuing charges if there was a law broken.

Where is all this uproar about upholding law and order with the January 6th defendants?
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I've been more than vocal about Trump and January 6th. In fact, to my disadvantage. I think there were people insinuating that there was no evidence here, when a bunch of us were saying it's basically res ipsa loquitur, only it's not negligence we're looking to establish, it's malfeasance. The event enough should have called into question any reporting the Times was doing and at whose behest they were doing it. 

 
Rockchild said:
Did anyone say there was no evidence? Or did they say let's wait and see what evidence there is? Again, if there was a leak or there was collusion between the FBI and NYT, then by all means charge them. I don't think anyone will disagree with pursuing charges if there was a law broken.

Where is all this uproar about upholding law and order with the January 6th defendants?
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Some here were dismissing it becay of who was involved. One even said PV leaked their own data to NYT in order to make the story up. 

And I don't think there's a government warehouse big enough to contain the level of faux outrage over 1/6. They're still detaining people going on 10 months now without charging them with a crime. Then giving people longer sentences for trespassing than rioters who actually set fire to federal buildings last year got.

So let's not compare the two. 

 
Insein said:
Some here were dismissing it becay of who was involved. One even said PV leaked their own data to NYT in order to make the story up. 

And I don't think there's a government warehouse big enough to contain the level of faux outrage over 1/6. They're still detaining people going on 10 months now without charging them with a crime. Then giving people longer sentences for trespassing than rioters who actually set fire to federal buildings last year got.

So let's not compare the two. 
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But much less time than a woman who accidentally illegally voted. 

So let's not compare the two

 
massraider said:
I'm slow on the uptake 

Why is this evidence that anyone was in cahoots?
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Judges are loathe to issue prior restraint orders against the press unless they believe that the press is involved in malfeasance or is about to disseminate really sensitive matters that would color the jury at trial. 

The order goes "...Order and Show Cause for the Protection of Attorney-Client Privileged Information Improperly Obtained and Published by The New York Times..."

Who else but the FBI gave it to them if it was "improperly obtained and published" by the NYT?  

 
Sorry doesn't fit the "hurr durr Project Veritas bad, let's joke it out of existence..." mentality. This is potentially very troubling, as I stated upthread. 

 
Insein said:
They're still detaining people going on 10 months now without charging them with a crime. Then giving people longer sentences for trespassing than rioters who actually set fire to federal buildings last year got.
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This is a blatant lie. Please stop spreading this gross disinformation.

 
No, it doesn't fit the, "this is new evidence, please take a victory lap" narrative of your previous post. 

It would not surprise me one bit if someone at the FBI leaked this. Seems likely to me. 

I don't think it's 'likely' that the FBI was directed to leak this. 

I DO think that:

1. People should stop calling these clowns journalists. 

2. Eff around and steal diaries from relative of the president? Yeah, you might have government agencies screw with you. Anyone thought that was not the case before?

3. Anyone caught leaking this should expect to be charged, and I support that. No matter how vile James O'Keefe's existence is, he deserves the same legal protections anyone else has who actually is a productive member of society. 

4. I see nothing in this judges order other than, it's not cool releasing this info. 

Seems it was never cool for the Times to do it, I agree with that. I am drawing a distinction between "someone at the FBI" and "The FBI". 

When Snowden leaked all that data, it wasn't the NSA that leaked it. It was someone at the NSA. 

 
Insein said:
Some here were dismissing it becay of who was involved. One even said PV leaked their own data to NYT in order to make the story up. 

And I don't think there's a government warehouse big enough to contain the level of faux outrage over 1/6. They're still detaining people going on 10 months now without charging them with a crime. Then giving people longer sentences for trespassing than rioters who actually set fire to federal buildings last year got.

So let's not compare the two. 
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I'm not comparing the two just the lack of balance in wanting the legal process to be followed in all cases. You say 'faux outrage' but January 6th happened. You may not think it was a big deal and that is your right to have that opinion but others see it differently and that is their right. It is now in the hands of the legal process and it will play out there. I'm not sure of the details of people being held 10 months without charges but if so that doesn't seem right and there should be legal means to stop this. I agree that if that is happening that it shouldn't be and something should be done as that seems like a clear due process violation (again, I am not a lawyer and just typed that due process violation comment because it sounds like I know more than I do, lol).

Do I lean one way or the other politically? Yes, but that doesn't mean I don't want the law and process to be followed. I may disagree with the outcomes sometimes and complain about it but I still abide by those decisions. We don't have all of the facts in this case and are all somewhat speculating. I'm not sure what you want here though. We should be able to have differences of opinion and argue but need to have some common ground as to the legal process and letting it play out. I don't think most people here are arguing against letting the legal process play out. Sure there are snarky remarks and jokes but most just want the process to be followed as it seems to be.

 
massraider said:
No, it doesn't fit the, "this is new evidence, please take a victory lap" narrative of your previous post. 

It would not surprise me one bit if someone at the FBI leaked this. Seems likely to me. 

I don't think it's 'likely' that the FBI was directed to leak this. 

I DO think that:

1. People should stop calling these clowns journalists. 

Calling them something other than journalists opens up a whole can of worms in terms of their legal protection. So far Biden has refused to call them journalists so that they could do what they are doing to Project Veritas. As some experts have noted, if this were a traditional media outlet, people would be going bat####. 

2. Eff around and steal diaries from relative of the president? Yeah, you might have government agencies screw with you. Anyone thought that was not the case before?

Nobody has proven he stole the diary. In fact, he gave it back to police. And for someone who is anti-authority, you seem an awfully lot like you're explaining away the thug reactions of a police force gone rogue (The FBI is a crime force, by the way, nothing more)

3. Anyone caught leaking this should expect to be charged, and I support that. No matter how vile James O'Keefe's existence is, he deserves the same legal protections anyone else has who actually is a productive member of society. 

Good 

4. I see nothing in this judges order other than, it's not cool releasing this info. 

Seems it was never cool for the Times to do it, I agree with that. I am drawing a distinction between "someone at the FBI" and "The FBI". 

When Snowden leaked all that data, it wasn't the NSA that leaked it. It was someone at the NSA. 

This seems like an awfully lot like a distinction without a difference in this case. 
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rockaction said:
Nobody has proven he stole the diary. In fact, he gave it back to police. And for someone who is anti-authority, you seem an awfully lot like you're explaining away the thug reactions of a police force gone rogue (The FBI is a crime force, by the way, nothing more)
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I'm not explaining it away. I'm being realistic. You #### around and find out. I'm not saying it's ok. 

I'm sorry, NOBODY HAS PROVEN? Did you just say that?  :lmao:

I'll prove O'Keefe stole it when it's proven the FBI leaked it to the Times. How about that?

Because after all, if he didn't steal it, HOW ELSE DID HE GET IT?

 
rockaction said:
Sorry doesn't fit the "hurr durr Project Veritas bad, let's joke it out of existence..." mentality. This is potentially very troubling, as I stated upthread. 
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I think there's been enough serious dialogue in this thread about the particulars of the case. PV doesn't do themselves any favours with their editing techniques but that in and of itself shouldn't disqualify them as being journalists. This leads to a bigger issue of what is a journalist in this day and age. Journalistic standards have devolved quite a bit and MSM are not immune to it yet we still seem to want to hold them to this or at least a higher standard but not other sources of news. But it is another discussion altogether.

 
massraider said:
I'm not explaining it away. I'm being realistic. You #### around and find out. I'm not saying it's ok. 

I'm sorry, NOBODY HAS PROVEN? Did you just say that?  :lmao:

I'll prove O'Keefe stole it when it's proven the FBI leaked it to the Times. How about that?

Because after all, if he didn't steal it, HOW ELSE DID HE GET IT?
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I'd love to see the statement of the owner of the Diary as to how/when it was "stolen" from her.  My understanding is she left it somewhere.  When PV got it they gave it to law enforcement.  Up to now we haven't heard how it was allegedly stolen.  The last time I heard, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty.  This looks like a case where someone misplaced their belongings.  Accusing the person who ultimately ended up with it and turned it over to authorities of theft because you're high profile and embarrassed that you misplaced it is pretty weak, but not unexpected from a Biden family member.

 
Rockchild said:
I think there's been enough serious dialogue in this thread about the particulars of the case. PV doesn't do themselves any favours with their editing techniques but that in and of itself shouldn't disqualify them as being journalists. This leads to a bigger issue of what is a journalist in this day and age. Journalistic standards have devolved quite a bit and MSM are not immune to it yet we still seem to want to hold them to this or at least a higher standard but not other sources of news. But it is another discussion altogether.
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Without being too terse, I think you have me confused with someone who finds O'Keefe sympathetic and worthy of esteem as as journalist. Neither of those things is true. I've started threads about O'Keefe's odiousness before. The question here is untoward dissemination by The New York Times of improperly leaked information by a federal agency regarding a citizen. That's just wrong when the leak and publication damage the citizen unjustly. 

 
massraider said:
I'm not explaining it away. I'm being realistic. You #### around and find out. I'm not saying it's ok. 

I'm sorry, NOBODY HAS PROVEN? Did you just say that?  :lmao:

I'll prove O'Keefe stole it when it's proven the FBI leaked it to the Times. How about that?

Because after all, if he didn't steal it, HOW ELSE DID HE GET IT?
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Buy it as the highest bidder from someone who said they obtained it with permission? That's the story. 

 
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We all know where your avatar's picture would land here. He'd be sickened by O'Keefe, and no great friend of the FBI, he'd probably take a hard pass on this one. He'd know how rotten the FBI can be -- it's an agency that has spied on MLK, RFK, JFK, any ####### K, Hemingway -- and would simply think that if the angels could get gooned up by the thug feds, then why not this pipsqueak. 

But this is America, and as jaded as we are, we have process and law and order. Something the FBI clearly seems to have violated along the way in this case, with a paper in tow. What that says about the agency can't further diminish my respect for it (I have very little) any more than it already has throughout its existence. The paper hits a new low. 

 
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John123 said:
I'd love to see the statement of the owner of the Diary as to how/when it was "stolen" from her.  My understanding is she left it somewhere.  When PV got it they gave it to law enforcement.  Up to now we haven't heard how it was allegedly stolen.  The last time I heard, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty.  This looks like a case where someone misplaced their belongings.  Accusing the person who ultimately ended up with it and turned it over to authorities of theft because you're high profile and embarrassed that you misplaced it is pretty weak, but not unexpected from a Biden family member.
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This was a good response until the bolded. I agree with what you're saying but there was no need to politicize it. I understand you're not a Biden fan and, to be honest, I wasn't thrilled with him running as he is too old and entrenched but thought he had the best chance to win the election. It was a strategic move from the Democrats and it paid off. I digress again.

All these details are the crux of this case. My question is that if this was turned over to the FBI as is stated by O'Keefe and the warrant was for stolen property (as I read upthread somewhere) what else were they looking for. Or am I way out to lunch on this? You would think the judge who signed off on this would want a clear explanation before approving the warrant.

 
rockaction said:
Buy it as the highest bidder from someone who said they obtained it with permission? That's the story. 
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PV doesn't purchase items. They pay people to infiltrate the lives of others, in hopes of discrediting them.

They pay people to pose as someone they are not, become friendly with them, and use any information they acquire to try and embarrass them, up to editing video dishonestly to ruin people's careers. 

So, using my FBI/NYT decoder ring, the most obvious answer is that they paid someone to insinuate themselves in a member of the Biden family (disgusting) and stole the diary, and returned it when there was no salacious details 

 
Rockchild said:
This was a good response until the bolded. I agree with what you're saying but there was no need to politicize it. I understand you're not a Biden fan and, to be honest, I wasn't thrilled with him running as he is too old and entrenched but thought he had the best chance to win the election. It was a strategic move from the Democrats and it paid off. I digress again.

All these details are the crux of this case. My question is that if this was turned over to the FBI as is stated by O'Keefe and the warrant was for stolen property (as I read upthread somewhere) what else were they looking for. Or am I way out to lunch on this? You would think the judge who signed off on this would want a clear explanation before approving the warrant.
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The Biden family has been shown over and over to be a bunch of grifters.  Sorry, but it's true.  And whether you agree with that particular statement, it's not relevant to the overall point of the post.  We've never seen the complaint alleging theft here.  That's just what the media is reporting.  So, accusing PV of theft is inappropriate at best.

 
rockaction said:
Without being too terse, I think you have me confused with someone who finds O'Keefe sympathetic and worthy of esteem as as journalist. Neither of those things is true. I've started threads about O'Keefe's odiousness before. The question here is untoward dissemination by The New York Times of improperly leaked information by a federal agency regarding a citizen. That's just wrong when the leak and publication damage the citizen unjustly. 
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Sorry, I apologize for that. I agree that if the bolded is what happened then it is wrong and they should be held accountable.

 
massraider said:
PV doesn't purchase items. They pay people to infiltrate the lives of others, in hopes of discrediting them.

They pay people to pose as someone they are not, become friendly with them, and use any information they acquire to try and embarrass them, up to editing video dishonestly to ruin people's careers. 

So, using my FBI/NYT decoder ring, the most obvious answer is that they paid someone to insinuate themselves in a member of the Biden family (disgusting) and stole the diary, and returned it when there was no salacious details 
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So your "most obvious" answer is that PV sent an undercover agent to infiltrate the president of the United States family in order to steal his daughter's diary?

I have so many follow up questions just to see where your brain takes you here. 

 
John123 said:
The Biden family has been shown over and over to be a bunch of grifters.  Sorry, but it's true.  And whether you agree with that particular statement, it's not relevant to the overall point of the post.  We've never seen the complaint alleging theft here.  That's just what the media is reporting.  So, accusing PV of theft is inappropriate at best.
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Do you find it disturbs your reading of the "FBI Accused Of" thread?

 
Insein said:
So your "most obvious" answer is that PV sent an undercover agent to infiltrate the president of the United States family in order to steal his daughter's diary?

I have so many follow up questions just to see where your brain takes you here. 
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If I put the accusation in a tweet, I think that makes it true. I learned that in this thread.

What do you think PV does, by the way? It sounds wacky, right? Uh, that's what they do. 

Specifically to steal diaries? No, that's some crap you added, but I'll ignore it. Otherwise, yeah guy, that's exactly what they do. 

 
Rockchild said:
Sorry, I apologize for that. I agree that if the bolded is what happened then it is wrong and they should be held accountable.
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Sounds fair.

If this has been confusing hearing a guy defend Project Veritas's O'Keefe while at the same time thinking he's odious and a general intellectual lout, I used to be a right-winger who was skeptical of government authority, even the FBI. When Trump co-opted that Deep State stuff, I was sort of taken aback by the brazenness and stupidity of it, but his tenure and the right's descent into national greatness conservatism has left me as a more traditional left-leaning member of society, which in today's climate should lead to pro CIA and FBI feelings, if the news tells us anything.

But I am still a skeptic of the FBI. And as a former righty, I know when someone is being pilloried because they aren't part of the leftist establishment in the country while the left is in charge. Raises my hackles when they do that, because I always think that it could have been me, no matter how upright or traditional I was about my business. Those ####ers have it in it for you, and damn if they won't get their pound of flesh.

But that's another story for another time.  

 
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massraider said:
If I put the accusation in a tweet, I think that makes it true. I learned that in this thread.

What do you think PV does, by the way? It sounds wacky, right? Uh, that's what they do. 

Specifically to steal diaries? No, that's some crap you added, but I'll ignore it. Otherwise, yeah guy, that's exactly what they do. 
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So PV is a bunch of two bit hacks but also sophisticated enough to get a spy into the president's family to steal personal information?

 
Insein said:
So PV is a bunch of two bit hacks but also sophisticated enough to get a spy into the president's family to steal personal information?
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It appears as though the biggest problem is that they have become rather adept at getting those in MSM, primarily, to admit to their political bias.  And as such they are a tangible threat to the wider liberal cadre.

 
Insein said:
So PV is a bunch of two bit hacks but also sophisticated enough to get a spy into the president's family to steal personal information?
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It seems the most likely way for them to acquire data is their proven, videotaped method for acquiring data. 

 
John123 said:
The Biden family has been shown over and over to be a bunch of grifters.  Sorry, but it's true.  And whether you agree with that particular statement, it's not relevant to the overall point of the post.  We've never seen the complaint alleging theft here.  That's just what the media is reporting.  So, accusing PV of theft is inappropriate at best.
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If it isn't relevant to the post then why say it? I'm not calling you out specifically but this is how these discussions devolve. If we all just stay on point and try not to insult and stay civil we can have a good discussion. We may never agree on things but that is fine. Different opinions are good overall.

 
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