FF and the Ticking Clock (1 Viewer)

[Leroy Hoard]

I think it is more the competitive spirit of wanting to win and be the best that keeps me going

Hasn't anyone ever told you that winning isn't everything?

 

[JohnnyU]

I think it is more the competitive spirit of wanting to win and be the best that keeps me going

Hasn't anyone ever told you that winning isn't everything?

Yeah, it’s the only thing

 

[-OZ-]

I feel like fantasy has never been more popular.

Could be, especially DFS. But it speaks volumes to me that the mock drafts on this site used to fill up like 3 different times, 4 leagues each. Last year there were two total (Not counting the anarchy), This year not even one got going.

 

[BassNBrew]

I feel like fantasy has never been more popular.

Could be, especially DFS. But it speaks volumes to me that the mock drafts on this site used to fill up like 3 different times, 4 leagues each. Last year there were two total (Not counting the anarchy), This year not even one got going.

Dfs forum is now a ghost town. That said, I think the reason for both is the forums here are dying.

 

[-OZ-]

I feel like fantasy has never been more popular.

Could be, especially DFS. But it speaks volumes to me that the mock drafts on this site used to fill up like 3 different times, 4 leagues each. Last year there were two total (Not counting the anarchy), This year not even one got going.

Dfs forum is now a ghost town. That said, I think the reason for both is the forums here are dying.

Could be. FBG is my only forum for FF and I’ve gone from a dozen leagues a few years ago to 2 now. Gave up the commissioner gig in one but will stay there for a while. I’m nowhere near as active as I used to be. But that’s probably a good thing. My oldest son joined me, but he’s rather apathetic about it. Hoping he gets more interested - he built his team well (dynasty) but I really don’t see him joining another league.

2 leagues is good for me. One is a total wreck after a couple decades of contending, my SF team is doing alright and won last year. It’s kind of fun to have a team on opposite timelines but more than that becomes not fun.

 

[Soulfly3]

Bringing this back up, cuz Ive had a few close friends mention some "new/newer" leagues theyve been a part of are losing members left and right...

these leagues are all at least 4yrs old, and upwards of around 8-10yrs old.

i don't know if it's just the age group or what, but they all seem to think its a touch strange, as none of the leagues had lost more than 1 member since starting.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I feel like fantasy has never been more popular.

Wow, did NOT expect this reply, I just don't see it with anyone I know personally... Whether in my league or not.

I do however agree that daily FF/gambling is as big as ever and will likely be around forever.... Was referring to more tradtional FF games (redraft/dynasty/keeper etc).

Look at YouTube. Search “fantasy football”. The results will shock you, as the clickbait headlines say.

Thousands of videos and some of the more popular ones have hundreds if not thousands of comments.

Nearly all my friend’s kids play FF. a couple have joined a league I’m in.

The NFL rules the sports world, and they promote FF hand in glove.

I agree that FF is more popular than ever. I disagree that the clock is ticking.

Baseball on the other hand…

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Bringing this back up, cuz Ive had a few close friends mention some "new/newer" leagues theyve been a part of are losing members left and right...

these leagues are all at least 4yrs old, and upwards of around 8-10yrs old.

Anecdotal evidence & small sample sizes shouldn’t drive a sweeping generalization my dude.

I’m In 3 dynasty leagues - 2 of them brutal format.

1 is a16 team, PPR SF TE-P, IDP 11/11 with start 2-TE requirement. We had a trainwreck of a team that’s going to take years to resurrect. We found an owner for it in 2 days.

My 12 team PPR SF found 2 owners over the span of a week.

My other 16 team SF PPR IDP TE-P found an owner in less than a day.

Just sayin - that’s a small sample size and anecdotal as well but paints a vastly different picture.

 

[Soulfly3]

I feel like fantasy has never been more popular.

Wow, did NOT expect this reply, I just don't see it with anyone I know personally... Whether in my league or not.

I do however agree that daily FF/gambling is as big as ever and will likely be around forever.... Was referring to more tradtional FF games (redraft/dynasty/keeper etc).

Look at YouTube. Search “fantasy football”

The results will shock you, as the clickbait headlines say.

Thousands of videos and some of the more popular ones have hundreds if not thousands of comments.

Nearly all my friend’s kids play FF. a couple have joined a league I’m in.

The NFL rules the sports world, and they promote FF hand in glove.

I agree that FF is more popular than ever. I disagree that the clock is ticking.

Baseball on the other hand…

Is standard FF the way WE know more popular than ever, or is DFS and gambling?

 

[Ilov80s]

I feel like fantasy has never been more popular.

Wow, did NOT expect this reply, I just don't see it with anyone I know personally... Whether in my league or not.

I do however agree that daily FF/gambling is as big as ever and will likely be around forever.... Was referring to more tradtional FF games (redraft/dynasty/keeper etc).

Look at YouTube. Search “fantasy football”

The results will shock you, as the clickbait headlines say.

Thousands of videos and some of the more popular ones have hundreds if not thousands of comments.

Nearly all my friend’s kids play FF. a couple have joined a league I’m in.

The NFL rules the sports world, and they promote FF hand in glove.

I agree that FF is more popular than ever. I disagree that the clock is ticking.

Baseball on the other hand…

Is standard FF the way WE know more popular than ever, or is DFS and gambling?

All of the above. Walking the halls of high school in the fall and you will hear a ton of talk about their redraft leagues with their friends.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Is standard FF the way WE know more popular than ever, or is DFS and gambling?

Maybe gambling, maybe DFS.

Hard to say. I know DFS is very very popular - low time investment, zero commitment. If a player gets hurt or suspended it’s meaningless beyond 1 contest (or day of contests)

I can see the appeal.

I, as commish, had to schedule 11 knuckleheads (12 if you count me) for an Aug 31st draft at my house. It was no small task, and took a lot of cat-herding. These are all folks from late 30s to late 50s, with wives and kids and vacations and soccer practices and 2 league members are minor league umpires in their spare time so lots of weekend activity to work around. 3 league members live out of state now, too. All to go to a home draft where we’ll be drinking all day & drafting 27 rounds.

We all love it. The wives & kids? Notsomuch. So I can see where in an online world the old house party local league draft might be a dinosaur. That’s fair.

I’m in a 12-team local league that went online 2 years ago due to stuff like this, and I don’t see that league ever going back to a draft board on a wall. Easy format 12 teams 1 QB, D/ST, 1 K so the draft takes like 2 hours max.

Can’t put that genie back in the bottle. Once folks get a taste of the convenience, that’s all she wrote. The world is changing.

Personally I’ll try to keep the league I commission live and local as long as possible. It’s the experience as much as the fantasy game. It’s become a reunion of friends who only all get together that 1 time a year.

@Joe Bryant posts about his local redraft league every year, and for me it echoes my same experience. It’s bigger than FF.

But yeah, I can see how those types of drafts are losing momentum in favor of the convenience of online.

 

[Gally]

I think the game is morphed to the point where you don't have to put in any time to prepare and you can still be competitive due to the inundation of information at your fingertips. Gone are the days of actually doing research and gaining a meaningful advantage. No matter how much we all want to believe the we know better and have an advantage in general it's just not true.

This is especially the case in standard run of the mill leagues. In order to make research matter you really have to create a league that has weird scoring and starting requirements otherwise you can dial up a cheat sheet and be just fine.

For me this has taken some of the luster away from the game and it is less fun. I still put in the time and research on my own and pretend that I have a leg up but really in the end it is 95% luck between injuries and schedule but it still makes the game much more enjoyable to watch to have something on the line.

 

[Gally]

Personally I’ll try to keep the league I commission live and local as long as possible. It’s the experience as much as the fantasy game. It’s become a reunion of friends who only all get together that 1 time a year.

My long time league (started in 1985) still has a live draft but the attendance is basically down to about 5 of us (14 team league). Everyone else just drafts on line. As like you said, once that became an option we slowly lost more and more in person participation and are probably at the bare minimum now. It's still fun to see the guys that do show up but it would be much better if everyone would get together.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I think the game is morphed to the point where you don't have to put in any time to prepare and you can still be competitive due to the inundation of information at your fingertips. Gone are the days of actually doing research and gaining a meaningful advantage. No matter how much we all want to believe the we know better and have an advantage in general it's just not true.

It’s a different subject for a different topic, it I think this is a bit of a flawed conclusion.

Yea, it’s information overload and gone are the days of researching & gaining a competitive advantage.

But that said, the problem for n00bs is that all information appears equal. When we see coachspeak about so-and-so coming into camp “on a mission” and “in the best shape of his life” we roll our eyes and move that data point to the round file.

When a n00b sees that it becomes gospel.

We might know Adams is 31 and has questionable QBs throwing to him, so we might fade him a bit. To the n00b, they see him on a cheat sheet with 2023 stats & get all lovey eyes.

the informed FF community knows who’s credible among the reporters of information. The n00b is flooded with “expert advice” on YouTube and Xwitter, often from people seeking attention by having the hottest (and dumbest) takes.

I’m just sayin - we know that not all information is created equal but to the lazy drafter that’s not the case.

I agree that it’s easier now than when I first started getting into it. But there will always be a reward for those who put in the work.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I'm not sure why old guy leagues losing members is supposed to be indicative of the younger generation not liking FF.

My kid's friends and nephews all think I'm the coolest because they can talk to me about FF. Or they think I'm the geeky old guy they can talk to about FF. Either way they like talking about FF.

 

[Gally]

But there will always be a reward for those who put in the work.

Of course, but you are fooling yourself if you believe that reward is truly meaningful. So you might move up a guy a few spots or stay away from a guy in the ADP range. It doesn't mean it won't still be an issue for you because it's still guesses to a large degree and in the end injuries and schedule will really dictate who wins.

So like I said, no matter how much "we" (and by that I mean all us in the SP) believe our research puts us on a different level, it still doesn't really matter that much.

 

[zamboni]

But there will always be a reward for those who put in the work.

Of course, but you are fooling yourself if you believe that reward is truly meaningful. So you might move up a guy a few spots or stay away from a guy in the ADP range. It doesn't mean it won't still be an issue for you because it's still guesses to a large degree and in the end injuries and schedule will really dictate who wins.

So like I said, no matter how much "we" (and by that I mean all us in the SP) believe our research puts us on a different level, it still doesn't really matter that much.

I think the relative advantage comes during the season with adds/drops, benefiting those that pay attention to changing situations. In drafts, anyone can go off a cheat sheet, but pivoting when the games happen IMO is what typically separates the haves and the have nots.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I think the relative advantage comes during the season with adds/drops, benefiting those that pay attention to changing situations. In drafts, anyone can go off a cheat sheet, but pivoting when the games happen IMO is what typically separates the haves and the have nots.

This happens during the draft as well. As we've all experienced, ADP is nice in theory, but rarely does a draft follow ADP.

And n00bs with rankings sheets seldom look at the ADP column, if there is one. This creates another dynamic where the experienced, well-researched FF manager can have an advantage. Even if small, it can matter. But again, this is all off-topic.

 

[Gally]

I think the relative advantage comes during the season with adds/drops, benefiting those that pay attention to changing situations. In drafts, anyone can go off a cheat sheet, but pivoting when the games happen IMO is what typically separates the haves and the have nots.

I totally agree that in season is where the people that pay attention move the needle as far as advantage goes. In many cases it is because those that don't do any research and just rely on cheatsheets 5 minutes before the draft run their team the same way with minimal work. Or they just give up because they lose a couple early games.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

In my eyes the relative advantage comes from having a plan with regards to constructing your roster, being proactive about it and never sitting still for too long. That might not necessarily mean making trades but always being in conversations and trying to understand how people are thinking.

 

[zamboni]

I think the relative advantage comes during the season with adds/drops, benefiting those that pay attention to changing situations. In drafts, anyone can go off a cheat sheet, but pivoting when the games happen IMO is what typically separates the haves and the have nots.

This happens during the draft as well. As we've all experienced, ADP is nice in theory, but rarely does a draft follow ADP.

And n00bs with rankings sheets seldom look at the ADP column, if there is one. This creates another dynamic where the experienced, well-researched FF manager can have an advantage. Even if small, it can matter. But again, this is all off-topic.

Could be, but seems like most traditional drafts have rankings somewhat correlated with ADP. If a n00b sticks with his/her board, they often can draft a reasonable team - or at least what seems like it at the time. At least that's what I've found in my leagues.

 

[Gally]

I think the relative advantage comes during the season with adds/drops, benefiting those that pay attention to changing situations. In drafts, anyone can go off a cheat sheet, but pivoting when the games happen IMO is what typically separates the haves and the have nots.

This happens during the draft as well. As we've all experienced, ADP is nice in theory, but rarely does a draft follow ADP.

And n00bs with rankings sheets seldom look at the ADP column, if there is one. This creates another dynamic where the experienced, well-researched FF manager can have an advantage. Even if small, it can matter. But again, this is all off-topic.

Could be, but seems like most traditional drafts have rankings somewhat correlated with ADP. If a n00b sticks with his/her board, they often can draft a reasonable team - or what seems like it at the time. At least that's what I've found in my leagues.

Gone are the days of having those couple teams of owners that don't know anything using a magazine from 8 months earlier and have teams that have no shot right from the get go. That just doesn't happen anymore. The difference between the SP drafted teams and the noob teams are likely negligible (1-2% difference)_in actual chances to win the league at draft time. Schedule luck and injuries play a much bigger role in who actually wins.

(I am not saying you shouldn't do your own work to gain that negligible increase just that it probably won't have any meaningful impact compared to schedule/injury luck)

 

[Gatorade]

Good discussion. Daily fantasy and gambling has exploded, but I don't really think it has put a dent into typical FF. I have been into FF for over 30 years. Started off with live drafting and waiting days for final scores. I was commish for both redraft and keeper leagues at work for years. When I moved and had to give up commish duties, someone else took over and I still played online. Got up to about 12 leagues including dynasty for a couple of years, but it got to be too much. Moved again and time constraints forced me to give it up completely for a few years prior to retirement. I did notice something strange after my move. I went from an area with close NFL presence to an area with a high college football presence . Much less interest in FF in this area. Now, with extra time on me hands, I am once again enjoying FF. Have one keeper and two dynasty. Even had to become commish in one dynasty due to death of commish and illness of co- commish. Might try redraft again soon . I am amazed at the FF content online. Although a lot of it is now paid content. I don't see it slowing down at all. If anything, I will be increasing my leagues.

 

[Payne]

Me personally, I think it's a combination of a few things all relating to age.

I am 50 years old and the past two years it has been difficult to fill my leagues.
Guys at this age are losing interest due to one thing or another. I have found the passion I've had over the past 30+ years has diminished as well. Age, stress, responsibilities, marriage, kids moving out, etc have all played a part in that. Plus a lot of the guys I grew old with have moved on. The "history" is gone.

Where, for years, I would start studying in June/ July, now I almost have to force myself to research in August.
For the first time, I'm actually thinking of walking away completely.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Could be, but seems like most traditional drafts have rankings somewhat correlated with ADP. If a n00b sticks with his/her board, they often can draft a reasonable team - or at least what seems like it at the time. At least that's what I've found in my leagues.

I won’t completely dispute it.

One year during COVID a league I was in had a member who missed the draft - sick kid, yada yada. He auto-drafted.

Not only did the autodraft pick him a solid team, it picked several injured players that us “sharks” avoided due to injury risk.

Naturally that team won the championship - 1st time that dude had even made the playoffs in a decade.

League disbanded a couple years later, but that’s definitely an example of what you & @Gally are saying.

 

[zamboni]

Guys at this age are losing interest due to one thing or another. I have found the passion I've had over the past 30+ years has diminished as well. Age, stress, responsibilities, marriage, kids moving out, etc have all played a part in that. Plus a lot of the guys I grew old with have moved on. The "history" is gone.

Funny, because now that my kids are grown, I don't have as many commitments with them (e.g., sports) during the week and on weekends, and have more time for FF than I used to.

 

[Gally]

Guys at this age are losing interest due to one thing or another. I have found the passion I've had over the past 30+ years has diminished as well. Age, stress, responsibilities, marriage, kids moving out, etc have all played a part in that. Plus a lot of the guys I grew old with have moved on. The "history" is gone.

Funny, because now that my kids are grown, I don't have as many commitments with them (e.g., sports) during the week and on weekends, and have more time for FF than I used to.

I think this is where other priorities might be coming in especially if the "old guard" that started these leagues are no longer participating. I don't want to be in leagues with people I am unfamiliar with because part of the fun for me is the back and forth of friends around some competitive space. That diminishes if you don't really know the guys involved because feelings can get hurt or misunderstood and then it becomes frustrating rather than fun.

So when some of that leaves it makes the interest wain a bit and now even though you have more time you may have other things that you would rather do (pickleball, pinochle, cribbage, knitting......what ever old people do).

 

[zamboni]

So when some of that leaves it makes the interest wain a bit and now even though you have more time you may have other things that you would rather do (pickleball, pinochle, cribbage, knitting......what ever old people do).

I think that's it - after awhile some just lose interest to other things. I've been in the same league for 24 years and I'm one of the newest ones among the 10 owners. I've probably stated in other threads that a small handful of the 10 still really care, but sadly it's gotten stale for sure. I am just too competitive to do it any other way but full bore.

We're all friends and honestly I'd like to kick a few non-involved buddies out to make it more interesting, but bros before X's and O's.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I think this is where other priorities might be coming in especially if the "old guard" that started these leagues are no longer participating. I don't want to be in leagues with people I am unfamiliar with because part of the fun for me is the back and forth of friends around some competitive space. That diminishes if you don't really know the guys involved because feelings can get hurt or misunderstood and then it becomes frustrating rather than fun.

Yeah - I'm in one league where trading is like pulling teeth. There are a couple of teams that are fun to work with, but like 13/16 are kinda difficult people. As a former project manager, I have lots of experience dealing with those personality types, but that league has the least amount of activity by far.

That's actually the league I just acquired JJM in, and when the deal went down (Puka & JJM who was 1.06, so kind of a blockbuster) like 3-4 people were posting to the message board about it, like "how is this wizardry possible?! Why will no one make blockbuster deals with me?"

My trade partner posted up, "because y'all have unrealistic values for your players and you're difficult to work with." That shut them all up fast, and I'm hopeful created incentive for them to reevaluate their style & result in a more fun league, but I'm skeptical.

So when some of that leaves it makes the interest wain a bit and now even though you have more time you may have other things that you would rather do (pickleball, pinochle, cribbage, knitting......what ever old people do).

Whoa, whoa, whoa....whoa! Cribbage got me through college, pal. Hours between classes throwing cards with my buddy who had the same schedule as I did. Cribbage has no age - it's timeless!

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

We're all friends and honestly I'd like to kick a few non-involved buddies out to make it more interesting, but bros before X's and O's.

Good on you. That said, I don't feel as bad winning a trade against a stranger.

 

[Ilov80s]

On a related note to football talk in the halls of high schools. There is for sure a big wave of gambling problems coming. I don’t know if parents are letting their kids use their online gambling accounts or if kids are setting them up illegally but kids are gambling on their phones a lot. A lot a lot.

 

[BradtheAg]

My son is in 5th grade and me and some of his friend's dads put together a league for them last season. It was complete chaos and the decisions they made were funny and somewhat maddening but they had a lot of fun. I think they're hooked.

 

[Gally]

My son is in 5th grade and me and some of his friend's dads put together a league for them last season. It was complete chaos and the decisions they made were funny and somewhat maddening but they had a lot of fun. I think they're hooked.

I did the same when my son was 10 yrs old. We did it as a fathers vs sons league so each son had their own team and each dad had their own team. It was morphed a bit as some of the kids decided it wasn't for them but we are still going strong 8 yrs later.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

My son is in 5th grade and me and some of his friend's dads put together a league for them last season. It was complete chaos and the decisions they made were funny and somewhat maddening but they had a lot of fun. I think they're hooked.

I went to a pool party at my friend’s house last August. They play in a ton of leagues, and I’m in a few with them.

During the pool party a group of 14 kids between 10-16 were drafting a league, with a couple of the parents acting as commishes to keep the draft moving along. All of the parents played FF, whether husband, wife, or husband + wife co-owners.

It was adorable, all the kids had a blast, and it was hysterical to watch. Little kids talk smack way more than adults when a questionable pick is made. lol

The youngest kids partnered up with older brothers or sisters, and when I looked at the teams they drafted (live draft, board on the wall with stickers) it resembled a somewhat competitive league.

Gave me hope for the future, especially that they did an analogue off-line draft.
(of course, every one of them had a tablet of some sort to research players, so not totally analogue )

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Here's an anecdote that speaks to the difficulty we've had finding a replacement for a dynasty team:

• Empire Dynasty league, $100 annual entry
• 50% to the current year payouts, the other 50% to the ultimate empire champion (first team to win back-to-back championships)
• Six years in the bank without an empire winner = $3600 balance in the bank

We've had an opening that we were aware of since the end of last season. Not a great team, but not completely barren. I completely understand why it would be a difficult sell in a normal dynasty league where we're asking someone to pick up somebody's orphan team and start paying for a sub-par team without any other incentive beyond gaining a team.

In this case, we have the benefit of a $3600 incentive in the bank that a prospective replacement owner would immediately be eligible for. All they have to do is assume control of this team, start paying the $100 annual entry fee, and presto, they're eligible to win all of this money that accumulated over six seasons that they've contributed nothing towards. If they try to compete right away and win back-to-back in 2024 & 2025, they would win $300 in 2024 and another $5100 in 2025, on a total investment of $200 (two entry fees). If they're more patient and do proper rebuild, maybe they can win in 2028 & 2029 and win $7.5K after paying in six entries, while possibly winning some payouts prior to that.

No takers. Ask my entire re-draft league that's paying a $50 annual entry to win a big whopping $300, and it's crickets. Other members of this league are having the same experience trying to sell this opportunity to their other leagues. It's the best gambling opportunity that anyone could ever be presented with if they have any confidence in competently managing a dynasty team.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Here's an anecdote that speaks to the difficulty we've had finding a replacement for a dynasty team:

• Empire Dynasty league, $100 annual entry
• 50% to the current year payouts, the other 50% to the ultimate empire champion (first team to win back-to-back championships)
• Six years in the bank without an empire winner = $3600 balance in the bank

We've had an opening that we were aware of since the end of last season. Not a great team, but not completely barren. I completely understand why it would be a difficult sell in a normal dynasty league where we're asking someone to pick up somebody's orphan team and start paying for a sub-par team without any other incentive beyond gaining a team.

In this case, we have the benefit of a $3600 incentive in the bank that a prospective replacement owner would immediately be eligible for. All they have to do is assume control of this team, start paying the $100 annual entry fee, and presto, they're eligible to win all of this money that accumulated over six seasons that they've contributed nothing towards. If they try to compete right away and win back-to-back in 2024 & 2025, they would win $300 in 2024 and another $5100 in 2025, on a total investment of $200 (two entry fees). If they're more patient and do proper rebuild, maybe they can win in 2028 & 2029 and win $7.5K after paying in six entries, while possibly winning some payouts prior to that.

No takers. Ask my entire re-draft league that's paying a $50 annual entry to win a big whopping $300, and it's crickets. Other members of this league are having the same experience trying to sell this opportunity to their other leagues.

Have you posted to the MFL or leaguesafe classifieds, or the relevant reddit forum?

I’d bet you’d fill it in a day.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Here's an anecdote that speaks to the difficulty we've had finding a replacement for a dynasty team:

• Empire Dynasty league, $100 annual entry
• 50% to the current year payouts, the other 50% to the ultimate empire champion (first team to win back-to-back championships)
• Six years in the bank without an empire winner = $3600 balance in the bank

We've had an opening that we were aware of since the end of last season. Not a great team, but not completely barren. I completely understand why it would be a difficult sell in a normal dynasty league where we're asking someone to pick up somebody's orphan team and start paying for a sub-par team without any other incentive beyond gaining a team.

In this case, we have the benefit of a $3600 incentive in the bank that a prospective replacement owner would immediately be eligible for. All they have to do is assume control of this team, start paying the $100 annual entry fee, and presto, they're eligible to win all of this money that accumulated over six seasons that they've contributed nothing towards. If they try to compete right away and win back-to-back in 2024 & 2025, they would win $300 in 2024 and another $5100 in 2025, on a total investment of $200 (two entry fees). If they're more patient and do proper rebuild, maybe they can win in 2028 & 2029 and win $7.5K after paying in six entries, while possibly winning some payouts prior to that.

No takers. Ask my entire re-draft league that's paying a $50 annual entry to win a big whopping $300, and it's crickets. Other members of this league are having the same experience trying to sell this opportunity to their other leagues.

Have you posted to the MFL or leaguesafe classifieds, or the relevant reddit forum?

I’d bet you’d fill it in a day.

Haven't broken the glass case on internet rando yet, but yeah, I would think that would do it. It's really too good of an opportunity for anyone that knows what they're doing and wants another dynasty team.

More than anything, I'm floored that several savvy members of my re-draft league who toil for a pittance of $300-$400 can't be bothered to dip their toe into dynasty waters to win something that would actually be worth their time.

 

[Gally]

Not a great team, but not completely barren.

It's the best gambling opportunity that anyone could ever be presented with if they have any confidence in competently managing a dynasty team.

These two statements may not be compatible. You are admitting that the team is not great so that's something and the degree of "not barren" can be in the eye of the beholder. If someone looks at the roster and says there is no chance of me winning this empire pot in the near future then there isn't a great opportunity here. If someone looks at it and thinks I may be competitive in 4 or 5 years what happens if that pot is won by then? Not a great opportunity.

I am just playing devils advocate since no particulars were given about the actual team or the other teams in the league already.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Not a great team, but not completely barren.

It's the best gambling opportunity that anyone could ever be presented with if they have any confidence in competently managing a dynasty team.

These two statements may not be compatible. You are admitting that the team is not great so that's something and the degree of "not barren" can be in the eye of the beholder. If someone looks at the roster and says there is no chance of me winning this empire pot in the near future then there isn't a great opportunity here. If someone looks at it and thinks I may be competitive in 4 or 5 years what happens if that pot is won by then? Not a great opportunity.

I am just playing devils advocate since no particulars were given about the actual team or the other teams in the league already.

Agreed. With that context and in that format, it makes for a much more challenging league to find a replacement.

I would hardly extrapolate that as a sign of the times for FF.

 

[BassNBrew]

I feel like fantasy has never been more popular.

Wow, did NOT expect this reply, I just don't see it with anyone I know personally... Whether in my league or not.

I do however agree that daily FF/gambling is as big as ever and will likely be around forever.... Was referring to more tradtional FF games (redraft/dynasty/keeper etc).

Look at YouTube. Search “fantasy football”

The results will shock you, as the clickbait headlines say.

Thousands of videos and some of the more popular ones have hundreds if not thousands of comments.

Nearly all my friend’s kids play FF. a couple have joined a league I’m in.

The NFL rules the sports world, and they promote FF hand in glove.

I agree that FF is more popular than ever. I disagree that the clock is ticking.

Baseball on the other hand…

Is standard FF the way WE know more popular than ever, or is DFS and gambling?

All three of my 20 somethings were in leagues last year. One doesn't really watch and the others my have a game or two a week on as background noise unless they are going to a bar to watch games with friends. 2 of those 3 dabble in dfs and gambling on props.

DFS forum at FBGs is totally dead. I think what you are seeing is the older guys fadings from regular FF and abandoning DFS because they realize the juice is out of control.

 

[BassNBrew]

Also J isn't adding all this new staff and content because his customer base is declining.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

But there will always be a reward for those who put in the work.

Of course, but you are fooling yourself if you believe that reward is truly meaningful. So you might move up a guy a few spots or stay away from a guy in the ADP range. It doesn't mean it won't still be an issue for you because it's still guesses to a large degree and in the end injuries and schedule will really dictate who wins.

So like I said, no matter how much "we" (and by that I mean all us in the SP) believe our research puts us on a different level, it still doesn't really matter that much.

I think the relative advantage comes during the season with adds/drops, benefiting those that pay attention to changing situations. In drafts, anyone can go off a cheat sheet, but pivoting when the games happen IMO is what typically separates the haves and the have nots.

90% this. Outworking the competition is the way. Luck will be kicking the newly placed shims out from under your beautiful team the minute you think you're done bracing from the last injury.

WRT the draft, I've said it before and it's not like I'm some sort of visionary but..here goes: A different sub I pay for puts out a downloadable fully modifiable year long projection spreadsheet. It's not just the scoring, you can adjust completion percentage, target share, rush share, td% etc etc. I like to go in and tweak the numbers to my liking. I then output value over last starter and study ADP inefficiencies. Sadly, often I watch "my guys" creep up the draft boards during August. Then I draft the hell out of the first 8 rounds before pivoting to stockpiling running backs like cord wood.

Then Dobbins and Chubb go down and it's all hands on deck. Every day, grinding the wire, looking for usage patterns... I'm in a hole but slowly digging out- Then Andrews goes down and I swing a trade for Njoku. Scraped into the playoffs on a last week win and a points scored total diff and crushed my son in the semis. Tipped my cap to one of his friends who's been in the league for years and never done much- but a very nice kid and was working at it. I did really well, he did better. An average player wouldn't have made it into the playoffs with the injuries my team sustained.

This year, I have to figure out the keeper league I flopped in last year.

Also- my main league is 2 teenagers, 8 twentysomethings and my brother and me 44/48. All the kids love it and many play in multiple leagues.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Not a great team, but not completely barren.

It's the best gambling opportunity that anyone could ever be presented with if they have any confidence in competently managing a dynasty team.

These two statements may not be compatible. You are admitting that the team is not great so that's something and the degree of "not barren" can be in the eye of the beholder. If someone looks at the roster and says there is no chance of me winning this empire pot in the near future then there isn't a great opportunity here. If someone looks at it and thinks I may be competitive in 4 or 5 years what happens if that pot is won by then? Not a great opportunity.

I am just playing devils advocate since no particulars were given about the actual team or the other teams in the league already.

Valid points. There's certainly a risk that an emperor is crowned before this team fully ramps up, and that risk should be factored in to the "investment" for sure. There are factors that can change the math, but the typical over/under for how long this league can be projected to last before an emperor is crowned is 4.5 years. Last year's winner was pretty average, just sneaking in to the playoffs.

The top 6 of 12 teams qualify for the playoffs. There are enough veteran players on this roster that playing to win right away is feasible. Although, I would probably take the longer path and strip it down for a chance at a bigger payoff later down the road (and yes, taking on the risk that it gets taken down before I get my team where I want it to be).

It works out something like this:

The good: You're one of 12 teams. Competently managed, factoring in a difficult starting point and the odds that the league ends in your first two years, the odds to win the grand prize aren't worse than 20:1. That's essentially a $180 value in free betting slips that you're walking into. Want to allow a 50% probability of the league ending before your team has properly rebuilt? Then 24:1 is $150.

The bad: If you play the rebuild, you're probably not winning 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in-season payouts for the first two seasons. You can pretty much kiss that half of your entry fee away, equal to $100. If you want to be really pessimistic and say three seasons, then that's the tail end of the $150.

Not a golden goose, but a better opportunity than most dynasty leagues where you're inheriting another owner's mess and get nothing for it. We had two newcomers last season with pretty comparable outlooks. One was this team. The other owner paid his $100, won the championship for $300, and now gets to play this season for a $4500 payout.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Not a great team, but not completely barren.

It's the best gambling opportunity that anyone could ever be presented with if they have any confidence in competently managing a dynasty team.

These two statements may not be compatible. You are admitting that the team is not great so that's something and the degree of "not barren" can be in the eye of the beholder. If someone looks at the roster and says there is no chance of me winning this empire pot in the near future then there isn't a great opportunity here. If someone looks at it and thinks I may be competitive in 4 or 5 years what happens if that pot is won by then? Not a great opportunity.

I am just playing devils advocate since no particulars were given about the actual team or the other teams in the league already.

Agreed. With that context and in that format, it makes for a much more challenging league to find a replacement.

I would hardly extrapolate that as a sign of the times for FF.

Believe me, Empire Dynasty makes a lot more sense than a standard dynasty when you inevitably need to find a replacement.

Both versions are offering the same mediocre team, except the empire dynasty team has an accumulated jackpot to dangle as an incentive. This same rolling payout should keep teams from abandoning ship in the future as it gets larger and larger. I honestly don't know why people agree to take on orphans in standard dynasty, other than really wanting to have a dynasty team, having no other options, or really craving a challenge. I would lose my mind if I cleaned up somebody else's dynasty mess only to have the league arbitrarily pull the plug as my team was ready to compete.

Don't need to worry about the league abruptly disbanding in empire. If it ends because somebody goes back-to-back, then you're out the entry fee from that season, and have your seat at the reset draft.

 

[BassNBrew]

Not a great team, but not completely barren.

It's the best gambling opportunity that anyone could ever be presented with if they have any confidence in competently managing a dynasty team.

These two statements may not be compatible. You are admitting that the team is not great so that's something and the degree of "not barren" can be in the eye of the beholder. If someone looks at the roster and says there is no chance of me winning this empire pot in the near future then there isn't a great opportunity here. If someone looks at it and thinks I may be competitive in 4 or 5 years what happens if that pot is won by then? Not a great opportunity.

I am just playing devils advocate since no particulars were given about the actual team or the other teams in the league already.

Agreed. With that context and in that format, it makes for a much more challenging league to find a replacement.

I would hardly extrapolate that as a sign of the times for FF.

Believe me, Empire Dynasty makes a lot more sense than a standard dynasty when you inevitably need to find a replacement.

Both versions are offering the same mediocre team, except the empire dynasty team has an accumulated jackpot to dangle as an incentive. This same rolling payout should keep teams from abandoning ship in the future as it gets larger and larger. I honestly don't know why people agree to take on orphans in standard dynasty, other than really wanting to have a dynasty team, having no other options, or really craving a challenge. I would lose my mind if I cleaned up somebody else's dynasty mess only to have the league arbitrarily pull the plug as my team was ready to compete.

Don't need to worry about the league abruptly disbanding in empire. If it ends because somebody goes back-to-back, then you're out the entry fee from that season, and have your seat at the reset draft.

Never heard of this format. I really like it. Only downside I see if people offering win now players to contenders to beat the current champ to keep the big payout in play. maybe your trade deadline is early enough to prevent this. For instance last place team sending Demarcus Robinson or Flacco to a playoff team for a 4th round draft pick.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

I wonder if Nassim Taleb's Lindy Effect would apply to traditional fantasy football.

What’s The Lindy Effect?​

The Lindy Effect is the idea that the older something is, the longer it’s likely to be around in the future.

Nassim Nicholas Taleb, in his book, Antifragile: Things That Gain From Disorder, defines it for non-perishable items (things like information, intellectual production, etc.) as so:

“If a book has been in print for forty years, I can expect it to be in print for another forty years. But, and that is the main difference, if it survives another decade, then it will be expected to be in print another fifty years. This, simply, as a rule, tells you why things that have been around for a long time are not ‘aging’ like persons, but ‘aging’ in reverse. Every year that passes without extinction doubles the additional life expectancy. This is an indicator of some robustness. The robustness of an item is proportional to its life!”

Take Shakespeare’s play, Macbeth, for example. He wrote it in 1606, so it’s been around for about 400 years. According to the Lindy Effect, we can expect it to be around another 400 years.

BUT, if it survives in the zeitgeist another 100 years, we can expect it to be around for another 500 years. The longer it survives, the longer it’s likely to be around.


Traditional fantasy football (and the dynasty version) has been around the longest, longer than DFS or pick-em games, so it is the most likely of all fantasy games to survive.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I feel like fantasy has never been more popular.

Could be, especially DFS. But it speaks volumes to me that the mock drafts on this site used to fill up like 3 different times, 4 leagues each. Last year there were two total (Not counting the anarchy), This year not even one got going.

Dfs forum is now a ghost town. That said, I think the reason for both is the forums here are dying.

We've always had more of a focus on redraft. Our DFS forum has always been quiet. As far as the forums "dying", I don't agree. Sure there are lots more options for people to discuss things and put their attention to as social media explodes. But I think we have some of the best forums on the internet for discussion with our Shark Pool and Free For All. Are they less active than they were 10 years ago when there were few other options? Sure. All forums are. But are they strong and vibrant now? I'd say yes.

Everyone has their opinion for sure but I don't think they're dying at all.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Me personally, I think it's a combination of a few things all relating to age.

I am 50 years old and the past two years it has been difficult to fill my leagues.
Guys at this age are losing interest due to one thing or another. I have found the passion I've had over the past 30+ years has diminished as well. Age, stress, responsibilities, marriage, kids moving out, etc have all played a part in that. Plus a lot of the guys I grew old with have moved on. The "history" is gone.

Where, for years, I would start studying in June/ July, now I almost have to force myself to research in August.
For the first time, I'm actually thinking of walking away completely.

I think it's natural to have people's desires change as they age. Hobbies that were important to them in their 40's may be not as important to them in their 50s.

I think a lot of that is just normal life. So I don't get too worried about the hobby.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Not a great team, but not completely barren.

It's the best gambling opportunity that anyone could ever be presented with if they have any confidence in competently managing a dynasty team.

These two statements may not be compatible. You are admitting that the team is not great so that's something and the degree of "not barren" can be in the eye of the beholder. If someone looks at the roster and says there is no chance of me winning this empire pot in the near future then there isn't a great opportunity here. If someone looks at it and thinks I may be competitive in 4 or 5 years what happens if that pot is won by then? Not a great opportunity.

I am just playing devils advocate since no particulars were given about the actual team or the other teams in the league already.

Agreed. With that context and in that format, it makes for a much more challenging league to find a replacement.

I would hardly extrapolate that as a sign of the times for FF.

Believe me, Empire Dynasty makes a lot more sense than a standard dynasty when you inevitably need to find a replacement.

Both versions are offering the same mediocre team, except the empire dynasty team has an accumulated jackpot to dangle as an incentive. This same rolling payout should keep teams from abandoning ship in the future as it gets larger and larger. I honestly don't know why people agree to take on orphans in standard dynasty, other than really wanting to have a dynasty team, having no other options, or really craving a challenge. I would lose my mind if I cleaned up somebody else's dynasty mess only to have the league arbitrarily pull the plug as my team was ready to compete.

Don't need to worry about the league abruptly disbanding in empire. If it ends because somebody goes back-to-back, then you're out the entry fee from that season, and have your seat at the reset draft.

Never heard of this format. I really like it. Only downside I see if people offering win now players to contenders to beat the current champ to keep the big payout in play. maybe your trade deadline is early enough to prevent this. For instance last place team sending Demarcus Robinson or Flacco to a playoff team for a 4th round draft pick.

I bet you'd like Empire as much as you're into FF.

I have some local friends who play in one. It's definitely more a "long term" vibe and that's fun. Back to back is tough with good GMs so it's not hard to envision the prize pool getting big.

 

[Joe Bryant]

One thing that's encouraging to me is how popular fantasy sports are with young people. Especially Fantasy Football.

And I think that's a great thing for our game.