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Fixed my mower. Possibly for good. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TheIronSheik
- Start date
3C's
Footballguy
I know and my post was that subtle reminder that it's a good idea to remove any chance of slicing off a finger. Even though I never did when I had a baby mower. Do as I say. not as I do. Case in point turning off a breaker when playing with electricity.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Pfft, then what could go wrong??By the way, have you ever seen the movie Final Destination?
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Ned
Footballguy
Added a step.Yup. Back to my intiial post. You filled stuff up with oil.
-Make sure your oil level is OK.
-Honestly, take the air filter OFF competely (if it will run like that...just sitting, not using it - don't want to suck up crap w/o filter)
-Run it until it stops smoking.
-Turn it off. (I feel this step is needed with you)
-Go to Pep Girls and buy a can of brake clean. Spray some on a rag and wipe down the inside of the air box (where you take the air filter out from).
-Replace with a NEW air filter.
-Re-start and you should be good.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
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Fat Nick
Footballguy
Did he see gas in the oil on the deck of the mower or actually in the engine? If just on the deck, no big deal.
If it's in the engine, it might make sense to just change your oil. It likely got in there via the carb and it flooded the cylinder, then leaked down past the rings into the oil. Changing the oil should be a very easy job. If your other option is buy a new mower, I'd just turn her on and let it run...
TheIronSheik
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He pulled off the dipstick and smelled it. He said it's happened to him before. The oil on the deck just seemed like oil. It looked like it was dripping from the air filter. I pulled the air filter off after the white smoke happened and it looked like the bottom part of the air filter was blackish, as if oil had run through it. The top part was still white.
Side note: A buddy of mine told me to clean the air filter with gas. I did that. Was that wrong? Or could I have tried using it too soon while the filter was still wet? I'm seriously asking here because I have no clue. But looking back on it, if the air filter was still wet, I can imagine that air would have a tough time flowing through. If air has a tough time getting through, could that have caused oil to spilled out onto the deck?
Fat Nick
Footballguy
OK. So yeah, you likely have gas in your oil. Change your oil if you can. Just drain it out and replace. Really shouldn't be that hard to do and shouldn't cost you more than a quart or two of oil. That will fix that issue, and any residual oil in the cylinder will burn off.
The blackish oil in the air filter really could be a lot of things. It could be oil that drained up and clogged it, but honestly, more likely is that your air filter was just really dirty. A lot of perfectly normal air filters feel gross and oily. They actually recommend that you "oil" them for best particle filtration. Not engine oil, but special filter oil. Re. cleaning it with gas...I've never done it...I can't imagine it'd hurt that much, but I would ring it out and let it dry a bit before putting it in. Essentially, the air will eventually mix with gas anyway, so it's not going to hurt if the sponge has some gas on it. I guess gas is preferrable to water to rinse it out b/c you don't want water getting in there, and the stuff you're rinsing likely is oil based and won't come off with just water.
I'd be far less concerned with the air filter and more concerned about the gas in the oil. As long as the air filter isn't literally dripping with oil, if you just rinse it out and wring out as much as you can, you should be OK.
TheIronSheik
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I don't have a manual. It's a hand me down. I'm sure I could find it on the web. But my question was more: If the air filter is still wet, could it have caused the issue with the oil billowing over?
I realize I don't understand engines at all. But I don't feel like I really did anything that would cause a catastrophic failure.
Flipped the mower to change the blade. Replaced blade. Ran mower, but the mower sounded sluggish. Emptied gas and oil, checked air filter, cleaned air filter, checked gas line, replaced all parts, added gas and oil. Started mower.
Mower sounded fine. Used mower for 5 passes. White smoke billowing out of muffler. Stopped mower. See that the mower deck has oil all over the part that is under the air filter. Neighbor sees smoke, comes over asks if there is oil in it. I say yes. He pops open the dipstick and the level is way too high. He smells it and says "Your gas is mixing with your oil. Need to drain that."
Again, not sure where the catastrophic failure occurred. The only thing I can think of is something happened with the air filter, especially since oil seems to be coming from there.
Not knowing anything about engines, I have no idea why oil would be pouring out of the air filter. Seems like those two things shouldn't be interacting. I also don't get why gas is getting into the oil. And why cleaning a filter would have that effect.
After using my non mechanical brain, my only thought is this: I touched the air filter. Oil is coming out of the air filter. Oil doesn't normally come out of the air filter. I think I ####ed up something with the air filter. Maybe the white smoke coming out of the muffler is a byproduct of me messing up the air filter. In the future, I shouldn't mess with the air filter.
Any thoughts?
3C's
Footballguy
If the air filter was wet with water it would be a problem. Damp (not soaked) from gas shouldn't be a problem, but I wouldn't clean it with gas. Here's what I would do (rehash of posts from others):
If you suspect there is gas in the oil drain the oil following manufacturer directions (find a manual)
refill oil to the proper level
remove air filter
use a little spray carb cleaner and spray into carb (probably optional)
replace the air filter (probably needed to anyway). oil the filter before installing as directed by manual. clean the area where the foam filter lives (the metal "box") and the rubber gasket.
add fresh gas
start it. it might smoke some. smoke isn't bad if it goes away. if you hear knocking or if it blows up, might be time to buy an electric.
If you suspect there is gas in the oil drain the oil following manufacturer directions (find a manual)
refill oil to the proper level
remove air filter
use a little spray carb cleaner and spray into carb (probably optional)
replace the air filter (probably needed to anyway). oil the filter before installing as directed by manual. clean the area where the foam filter lives (the metal "box") and the rubber gasket.
add fresh gas
start it. it might smoke some. smoke isn't bad if it goes away. if you hear knocking or if it blows up, might be time to buy an electric.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
So here's a basic image to go along with some instructions. I know your mower doesn't have a Hemi...
Engine Diagram
During normal use, the oil sits down where the red thing is (the crank shaft). In small engines, there is a little tab that basically dips down into the oil and splashes it around so it gets on the rod and shaft (
). The combustion chamber shouldn't have oil in it. The black lines on the piston are rings that seal the combustion chamber. they seal during use, but they're not perpetually "oil-tight" under all circumstances. When you tipped the mower upside down (sideways, whatever), the oil pooled on the bottom of the piston and leaked into the combustion chamber. At the same time, it's likely that a lot of fuel came in via the carbeurator (which sits to the left of where it says "Fuel." Again, when the machine is upright, the gas can't just flow in. So now you have a big puddle of oil and gas in the combustion chamber. You then turned the mower right-side up. That mess of oil and gas went to 3 places...Some of it flowed back up the "fuel" arrow, through the carb, and likely saturated your air filter. That's why the filter is wet. Some of it settled and leaked back down past the rings and back into where the oil SHOULD be, but now it was mixed with gas. That's why you had gas in your oil. A little bit stayed in the combustion chamber and/or coated some of the exhaust components. That burning off causes the smoke.Hopefully this makes sense. Basically, small engines rely on gravity for a lot. You mess with gravity, and you get stuff mixing that shouldn't mix.
TheIronSheik
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Thanks! I oddly, somewhat understand this. By what you're saying, would it be safe to assume that if I empty out the oil and replace it with new oil, then let it run, the problem could be solved? Or am I oversimplifying it?So here's a basic image to go along with some instructions. I know your mower doesn't have a Hemi...
Engine Diagram
During normal use, the oil sits down where the red thing is (the crank shaft). In small engines, there is a little tab that basically dips down into the oil and splashes it around so it gets on the rod and shaft (
Hopefully this makes sense. Basically, small engines rely on gravity for a lot. You mess with gravity, and you get stuff mixing that shouldn't mix.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Yes. The air filter shouldn't be a major issue, as long as air can get through, if it's got oil or gas on it, it shouldn't be a big deal. The smoke is just residual oil and will burn out.
The only other thing I could see giving you problems is if you replace the oil, and all of a sudden, it won't stay running (i.e. starts and stalls out) in which case I'd say try some carb cleaner sprayed into the air intake as maybe some of that oil was messing with the carb...but since it sounds like you didn't have issues starting it earlier, I don't think that'll be a problem.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
That's exactly what we've been telling him will fix this, but he won't listen.
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TheIronSheik
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I'm determined to fix this. I feel like the fix shouldn't be too hard. It didn't take much to break it. So it shouldn't take much to fix it, amirite?
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for you, GB. I know how frustrating this stuff is and the sense of accomplishment when you fix it.
TheIronSheik
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To empty the oil, you have to turn the mower over. Am I going to run into more issues by turning the mower over again? Seems like by turning the mower over, it's going to start the whole process again.
SWC
Bromigo
yeah brohan i agree with this fat nick knows his engines i remember from the retired guy thread and he is probably dead nuts on about this one to but hey man at this point i am honestly worried that you will get hurt or start a fire or have something blow up if you work on this i honestly think you should just bag it and go do the new american thing throw something out when it does not work and buy a shiny new one they will love you at home despot and i am not trying to be mean just honestly worried you will get burned take that to the bank brohan
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TheIronSheik
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DocHolliday
Footballguy
Turn the mower on its side but only enough to get to the oil drain plug. I always lean my mower up against something so it does not quite form a 90 degree angle with the ground.
Empty the oil and the gas. Make sure you have the blade on properly and tight while you have the gas and oil empty.
Turn the mower back over so it is sitting on its wheels.
Fill the gas and the oil. Replace the soggy air filter. Do not be cheap.
Start mower. Any gas/oil mixture will burn off in a few minutes. If I lived next door to you, I would have all of this completed in 30 minutes. It would take 5 minutes to fix the mower but another 25 minutes to bust your balls.
Empty the oil and the gas. Make sure you have the blade on properly and tight while you have the gas and oil empty.
Turn the mower back over so it is sitting on its wheels.
Fill the gas and the oil. Replace the soggy air filter. Do not be cheap.
Start mower. Any gas/oil mixture will burn off in a few minutes. If I lived next door to you, I would have all of this completed in 30 minutes. It would take 5 minutes to fix the mower but another 25 minutes to bust your balls.
3C's
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
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TheIronSheik
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Fat Nick
Footballguy
What DocHolliday said - It's OK - Just drain the gas first. Not sure how you did that the first time, but sometimes raising it and using some siphon on a little tube works.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
SWC
Bromigo
brohan not in a bad way it is just that gas and oil start on fire and blow up and you said in the first post that you do not feel good doing this stuff basically if it blows up or can shock you or burn you i say bad place to start learning that is all that i am getting at maybe start by working on some issue that is a little less deathable that is the point take that to the bank
TheIronSheik
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Fat Nick
Footballguy
Deathable - Love it.SWC said:
Truth is, breaking things is how I learned to fix things. The best time to learn is when you have nothing to lose (aka when your alternative is to just pitch it and buy a new one) Everything I know about small engines I learned over the last few years. I came across a snow blower that was basically new, but didn't work. I worked on it and worked on it and eventually took the whole thing apart. In doing so, I discovered 2 things - I learned how small engines worked and how they were assembled, and I learned that you can't fix a shattered connecting rod. Since then I've put a new engine on that snow blower, traded my old snow blower for 2 edgers and a string trimmer, sold the string trimmer, completely rebuilt one of the edgers, and still have another one to play with/work on.
It's a pretty cool skill. When the alternative is that you throw it away, you really can't go wrong. It sounds dangerous, but truthfully, if a small engine were to catch on fire, it's not going to be too bad.
TheIronSheik
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Again, the blade was replaced and I used it.
After replacing the blade, I mowed the entire back yard. It sputtered a little bit, but was cutting fine. It ran for about an hour. During that hour, it just sounded like it wasn't "hitting on all cylinders." I put the mower away for about 4 days. Figured turning it over was the reason for the misfiring sound. Had hoped that 4 days sitting would clear up any issues.
Went to start it and when it started, it sounded like it was barely staying running. I let it run for about 5 minutes, but it never got any better. No smoke though. If finally gave out.
That's when I took off the air filter and emptied everything. Refilled it all, cleaned the filter and put it all back together. Started it and it sounded great. Did 5 passes and white smoke was pouring out of it.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Not on all mowers. My Deere Z-Trak isn't...I know my FIL's push mower isn't either. It usually depends on the direction in which the blades rotate. If the blades spin clockwise, it'll be a left-hand thread (tighten turning left, or counter-clockwise) and vice versa for blades that spin the other way. It's done this way so that the spinning of the blades won't cause the nut to come loose.
TheIronSheik
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Battery driven mower? What do I look like? A guy who hates America? Go push your anti-American mowers somewhere else, hippie.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Def my favorite thread of the day. All the likes!
Quez
Footballguy
Sorry, its one of the only things my short term memory has in the notebook on you. I couldn't think of anything good with a broken leg...I'm still a little nonplussed why you are so hung up on the whole Ritalin thing.
msommer
Footballguy
You can pretend it runs on poor peopleBattery driven mower? What do I look like? A guy who hates America? Go push your anti-American mowers somewhere else, hippie.
TheIronSheik
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Pretending isn't as fun.You can pretend it runs on poor peopleBattery driven mower? What do I look like? A guy who hates America? Go push your anti-American mowers somewhere else, hippie.
TheIronSheik
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Exactly.TheIronSheik said:
"You ruined the mower by turning it over."
"OK. How do I fix it?"
"Empty out the oil and gas."
"OK. How do I do that?"
"Turn it over."
msommer
Footballguy
You can also syphon the gas out. I hear the bouquet is uniqueExactly.TheIronSheik said:
"You ruined the mower by turning it over."
"OK. How do I fix it?"
"Empty out the oil and gas."
"OK. How do I do that?"
"Turn it over."
TheIronSheik
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Heading home in 20 minutes. So I guess I'm fixing to fix my mower. Or at least try. My goal is to not let it get the best of me. If I can't figure it out tonight, I can try again tomorrow or call the neighbor. Just have to control my temper. No good will come if I end up Lou Pinella-ing this thing into the corner of the back yard. I can't make any promises, though.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Are we on to attempt #2 yet? All this talking about it is getting tiresome. I want action.
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TheIronSheik
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Sorry. Can't start working on it until I get home. I think the bridal company would frown upon me bringing a lawn mower into my cubicle. Stupid bridal companies.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
You do alterations there?Sorry. Can't start working on it until I get home. I think the bridal company would frown upon me bringing a lawn mower into my cubicle. Stupid bridal companies.
TheIronSheik
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No. Model. They needed a bride with B cups.You do alterations there?Sorry. Can't start working on it until I get home. I think the bridal company would frown upon me bringing a lawn mower into my cubicle. Stupid bridal companies.
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