Frye likely traded (1 Viewer)

[Bobcat10]

How is Cleveland the winner here? Just makes the organization look as foolish as ever in their judgment of talent. They've just traded their starting QB, an early 3rd round pick from 2005 for virtually nothing. It took the Browns 2+ seasons, nearly 20 starts and 3 training camps to realize that Charlie Frye wasn't going to cut it as their starter...alot of wasted time. Now the Browns have journeymen Derek Anderson, Ken Dorsey and rookie Brady Quinn. They will likely go through the same process with Quinn but it's doubtful that Crennel and maybe even Savage will be around to see the end of that experiment. It will be interesting to see how Cleveland fans and ownership feel about Brady Quinn and Phil Savage when the Cowboys get their top 5 overall pick in the 2008 draft.

I posted something more detailed in the Quinn thread floating towards the top of the forum....but why exactly is it bad for Cleveland? They'd be looking at a QB in '08, for way more money, not much more talent, and a year LATER. Why not get that guy in this year, since it is a new system and all, and get things rolling a year sooner? This trade was win-win big time for both teams, unless Quinn just sucks for the next 3 years, but that shouldn't be considered here because the QB in '08 could be just as bad.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

How is Cleveland the winner here? Just makes the organization look as foolish as ever in their judgment of talent. They've just traded their starting QB, an early 3rd round pick from 2005 for virtually nothing. It took the Browns 2+ seasons, nearly 20 starts and 3 training camps to realize that Charlie Frye wasn't going to cut it as their starter...alot of wasted time. Now the Browns have journeymen Derek Anderson, Ken Dorsey and rookie Brady Quinn. They will likely go through the same process with Quinn but it's doubtful that Crennel and maybe even Savage will be around to see the end of that experiment. It will be interesting to see how Cleveland fans and ownership feel about Brady Quinn and Phil Savage when the Cowboys get their top 5 overall pick in the 2008 draft.

I posted something more detailed in the Quinn thread floating towards the top of the forum....but why exactly is it bad for Cleveland? They'd be looking at a QB in '08, for way more money, not much more talent, and a year LATER. Why not get that guy in this year, since it is a new system and all, and get things rolling a year sooner? This trade was win-win big time for both teams, unless Quinn just sucks for the next 3 years, but that shouldn't be considered here because the QB in '08 could be just as bad.

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

 

[msommer]

How is Cleveland the winner here? Just makes the organization look as foolish as ever in their judgment of talent. They've just traded their starting QB, an early 3rd round pick from 2005 for virtually nothing. It took the Browns 2+ seasons, nearly 20 starts and 3 training camps to realize that Charlie Frye wasn't going to cut it as their starter...alot of wasted time. Now the Browns have journeymen Derek Anderson, Ken Dorsey and rookie Brady Quinn. They will likely go through the same process with Quinn but it's doubtful that Crennel and maybe even Savage will be around to see the end of that experiment. It will be interesting to see how Cleveland fans and ownership feel about Brady Quinn and Phil Savage when the Cowboys get their top 5 overall pick in the 2008 draft.

I posted something more detailed in the Quinn thread floating towards the top of the forum....but why exactly is it bad for Cleveland? They'd be looking at a QB in '08, for way more money, not much more talent, and a year LATER. Why not get that guy in this year, since it is a new system and all, and get things rolling a year sooner? This trade was win-win big time for both teams, unless Quinn just sucks for the next 3 years, but that shouldn't be considered here because the QB in '08 could be just as bad.

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

Everyone also seems to forget the amount of money Cleveland saved thamselves, well, other than bobcat10, apparently.If Brady Quinn also suck big donkey balls two-three years down the road and Dallas hits the jackpot then it was a bad trade from a player perspective. If Quinn at least performs decently in '09 it was a roaring financial success

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

 

[cstu]

How is Cleveland the winner here? Just makes the organization look as foolish as ever in their judgment of talent. They've just traded their starting QB, an early 3rd round pick from 2005 for virtually nothing. It took the Browns 2+ seasons, nearly 20 starts and 3 training camps to realize that Charlie Frye wasn't going to cut it as their starter...alot of wasted time. Now the Browns have journeymen Derek Anderson, Ken Dorsey and rookie Brady Quinn. They will likely go through the same process with Quinn but it's doubtful that Crennel and maybe even Savage will be around to see the end of that experiment. It will be interesting to see how Cleveland fans and ownership feel about Brady Quinn and Phil Savage when the Cowboys get their top 5 overall pick in the 2008 draft.

I posted something more detailed in the Quinn thread floating towards the top of the forum....but why exactly is it bad for Cleveland? They'd be looking at a QB in '08, for way more money, not much more talent, and a year LATER. Why not get that guy in this year, since it is a new system and all, and get things rolling a year sooner? This trade was win-win big time for both teams, unless Quinn just sucks for the next 3 years, but that shouldn't be considered here because the QB in '08 could be just as bad.

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

Everyone also seems to forget the amount of money Cleveland saved thamselves, well, other than bobcat10, apparently.If Brady Quinn also suck big donkey balls two-three years down the road and Dallas hits the jackpot then it was a bad trade from a player perspective. If Quinn at least performs decently in '09 it was a roaring financial success

The money is a big part of it. They got Quinn for peanuts compared to what a top 5 QB would cost them next year had they waited to get a QB. That all assumes that Quinn turns into the QB everyone expects him to be. They will have a lot more money to go after FA help next year because they got Quinn so cheap. The same could be said of Kolb/Beck/Stanton but I don't think any of those guys as Quinn caliber.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

This makes little sense from Cleveland's standpoint.

A sixth round pick is virtually nothing.

I thought holding Frye would be safe

until the Brady Quinn era was in effect

and successful.

 

[wadegarrett]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

As usual, a by AD.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

As usual, a by AD.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

As usual, a by AD.

Maybe, after watching the guy at ND for the last several years, I am too jaded to think he's really going to perform like a top 5 pick. I just don't think it's likely to happen, and throwing him to the wolves this year when the rest of the team still sucks donkey balls is just more likely to turn him into that bust. I think using the 2nd rounder to get a decent player, then drafting a REAL top 5 guy next year might have been worth the extra $$. I don't know how it's going to turn out. My point was that based on what some people are posting they seem to think the trade was next year's #1 for Quinn, when in reality they gave up much more than that.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

This assumes they couldn't take a different QB at 2.04 to achieve similar results. Kolb or Beck could have come in one year earlier without giving up a shot at Darren McFadden or Jake Long or whoever you like to fill a team need. The reality is, he wasn't a top 5 pick this year. He was pick #22. And his performances are going to have to be significantly better than those of Kolb and Beck to truly have the value commensurate with what the Browns gave up. What would be better for the Browns - Kolb/Beck + McFadden or just Quinn?

 

[Bobcat10]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

As usual, a by AD.

Maybe, after watching the guy at ND for the last several years, I am too jaded to think he's really going to perform like a top 5 pick. I just don't think it's likely to happen, and throwing him to the wolves this year when the rest of the team still sucks donkey balls is just more likely to turn him into that bust. I think using the 2nd rounder to get a decent player, then drafting a REAL top 5 guy next year might have been worth the extra $$. I don't know how it's going to turn out. My point was that based on what some people are posting they seem to think the trade was next year's #1 for Quinn, when in reality they gave up much more than that.

OK, let's think about that some more. Since this 2nd round pick was so valuable to you, the Browns got back into the 2nd round to get Wright (1st round talent that slipped b/c of off field issues that were probably overblown). I could make an argument that Savage had three 1st round picks in 2007 where he paid only his 2008 1st rounder and whatever he gave up to get back into the 2nd in 2007 (I think a '07 3rd rounder and maybe a 5th). And he got those 1st rounders at a major financial discount.I really think Savage made the correct moves in the '07 draft. Whether or not the players pan out is another story, but those are top shelf GM moves. And again, Dallas made out on the deal also as they didn't need a Quinn and risked the Browns sucking this year (probably a good bet).

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Maybe, after watching the guy at ND for the last several years, I am too jaded to think he's really going to perform like a top 5 pick. I just don't think it's likely to happen, and throwing him to the wolves this year when the rest of the team still sucks donkey balls is just more likely to turn him into that bust. I think using the 2nd rounder to get a decent player, then drafting a REAL top 5 guy next year might have been worth the extra $$. I don't know how it's going to turn out. My point was that based on what some people are posting they seem to think the trade was next year's #1 for Quinn, when in reality they gave up much more than that.

But they really didn't "give up" that 2nd. They just traded down to 2.21, a difference of 17 spots, where they still were able to select Eric Wright, who should be a starter.I look at who they could have taken with that 2.04 pick and I don't see a player there and between the 2.21 that was better (maybe Chris Houston) than Eric Wright.So you move down 17 spots in the 2nd, get a player just as good as you could have gotten at 2.04, and use your next year's #1 pick in order to draft a guy that may have Top 5 QB talent. A good move in my eyes.

 

[Bobcat10]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

This assumes they couldn't take a different QB at 2.04 to achieve similar results. Kolb or Beck could have come in one year earlier without giving up a shot at Darren McFadden or Jake Long or whoever you like to fill a team need. The reality is, he wasn't a top 5 pick this year. He was pick #22. And his performances are going to have to be significantly better than those of Kolb and Beck to truly have the value commensurate with what the Browns gave up. What would be better for the Browns - Kolb/Beck + McFadden or just Quinn?

I don't think Savage makes the move for Quinn unless he clearly has Quinn rated well above any other QB in the draft not named Russell, no matter how much Romeo may or may not have prodded Savage to do so.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

This makes little sense from Cleveland's standpoint.A sixth round pick is virtually nothing.I thought holding Frye would be safeuntil the Brady Quinn era was in effectand successful.

Byron Leftwitch, Drew Brees, Daunte Culpepper, Trent Green, and a host of others say Trading away a former starting NFL QB and getting a sixth round pick in return never happens in the NFL, err unless a team gets nothing in return and some former starters could actually play. Its amazing Cleveland got anything for Charlie Frye. Frye was far from a Pro Bowler.When he threw his interception Sunday it was the SIXTEENTH consecutive game that he turned the ball over in a game dating back to his rookie season in 2005. He took FIVE SACKS in a quarter of play. Derek Anderson only went down once the rest of the game. In two and a quarter games against the Steelers Frye ate turf 18 times while Anderson had gotten sacked once in a games and three quarters of play against the Steelers. Frye's QB passer rating went down from his rookie season, his DPAR rating went down, their as absolutely no way he was going to be starting or have a place on the team once Quinn took over. He wasn't going to kept around to groom, he had virtually no value on the market, he wasn't going to kept around as a valuable mentor for Quinn, and then once Brady is starting (possibly Sunday but I would hope they don't put him in till he's ready) having a former starter on the bench is not a good dynamic. The team must have reached the conclusion that going with Quinn sooner is the best option. If Frye had shown ANYTHING he would be the starter and the Browns would ice Quinn till he was ready. Anderson has 'nuff' experience to start in a pinch, DA at least didn't hurt the club consistently as Frye did with his turnovers and in taking sacks. The Browns will/or have already resigned Dorsey who can act as a better mentor for Quinn than Frye would or could. They got a sixth round pick in exchange for a guy who had no place or future role with the team. It'll either be Brady or Derek against the Bengals Sunday. Either are an upgrade over Charlie Frye. I wish him good luck with the Seahawks. The light might go on but the Browns have moved on and at least got something in return which is more than many teams have got in exchange for clearly superior QBs over Charlie Frye.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

This assumes they couldn't take a different QB at 2.04 to achieve similar results. Kolb or Beck could have come in one year earlier without giving up a shot at Darren McFadden or Jake Long or whoever you like to fill a team need.

Yes it does. That's why I made the caveat of "if Quinn flops". But who has a bigger chance of flopping - Quinn, Kolb, or Beck. If I HAD to bet, it wouldn't be Quinn.

The reality is, he wasn't a top 5 pick this year. He was pick #22. And his performances are going to have to be significantly better than those of Kolb and Beck to truly have the value commensurate with what the Browns gave up.

He was #22 because need didn't fit availablity, not because of talent.

What would be better for the Browns - Kolb/Beck + McFadden or just Quinn?

If you're asking me, I say Quinn. I've been pretty clear for some time in my belief that he's an NFL QB and is a MUCH superior prospect to Kolb/Beck. Addressing the RB position is a lot simpler than the QB spot.

 

[cstu]

Maybe, after watching the guy at ND for the last several years, I am too jaded to think he's really going to perform like a top 5 pick. I just don't think it's likely to happen, and throwing him to the wolves this year when the rest of the team still sucks donkey balls is just more likely to turn him into that bust. I think using the 2nd rounder to get a decent player, then drafting a REAL top 5 guy next year might have been worth the extra $$. I don't know how it's going to turn out. My point was that based on what some people are posting they seem to think the trade was next year's #1 for Quinn, when in reality they gave up much more than that.

But they really didn't "give up" that 2nd. They just traded down to 2.21, a difference of 17 spots, where they still were able to select Eric Wright, who should be a starter.I look at who they could have taken with that 2.04 pick and I don't see a player there and between the 2.21 that was better (maybe Chris Houston) than Eric Wright.So you move down 17 spots in the 2nd, get a player just as good as you could have gotten at 2.04, and use your next year's #1 pick in order to draft a guy that may have Top 5 QB talent. A good move in my eyes.

Quinn, Wright, $$$$ > 2.04 and their 1st next yearWorst case scenario is that Quinn is a complete bust and they can cut their losses cheap like they did with Frye.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

This assumes they couldn't take a different QB at 2.04 to achieve similar results. Kolb or Beck could have come in one year earlier without giving up a shot at Darren McFadden or Jake Long or whoever you like to fill a team need.

1. Yes it does. That's why I made the caveat of "if Quinn flops". But who has a bigger chance of flopping - Quinn, Kolb, or Beck. If I HAD to bet, it wouldn't be Quinn.

The reality is, he wasn't a top 5 pick this year. He was pick #22. And his performances are going to have to be significantly better than those of Kolb and Beck to truly have the value commensurate with what the Browns gave up.

2. He was #22 because need didn't fit availablity, not because of talent.

What would be better for the Browns - Kolb/Beck + McFadden or just Quinn?

3. If you're asking me, I say Quinn. I've been pretty clear for some time in my belief that he's an NFL QB and is a MUCH superior prospect to Kolb/Beck. Addressing the RB position is a lot simpler than the QB spot.

1. Quinn doesn't have to flop. Even if he becomes a good but not great QB, it's probably not worth it.2. If you're talented enough, need is irrelevant. The Dolphins couldn't have used him? The Vikings? The Vikings didn't NEED a RB, but it didn't stop them from taking the most talented player on the board at the time they picked.

3. Jamal Lewis, Reuben Droughns, Lee Suggs, William Green, James Jackson, Jamel White, Travis Prentice, Terry Kirby, Leroy Hoard, Tommy Vardell, and Eric Metcalf agree.

 

[hofer]

I suppose the term "Winner" in the subtitle is relative.

 

[TommyGilmore]

3. Jamal Lewis, Reuben Droughns, Lee Suggs, William Green, James Jackson, Jamel White, Travis Prentice, Terry Kirby, Leroy Hoard, Tommy Vardell, and Eric Metcalf agree.

I have owned every one of these players at one time or another.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

1. Quinn doesn't have to flop. Even if he becomes a good but not great QB, it's probably not worth it.

Okay, I can agree with that. But any time you're drafting a QB, you're running a higher risk of flop just by the nature of the position. If you don't think Quinn was worth that risk, I can see why you would be down on the move. I think Quinn's legit, therefore I think it was a good move. Time will tell who had the better impression, I guess.

2. If you're talented enough, need is irrelevant. The Dolphins couldn't have used him? The Vikings? The Vikings didn't NEED a RB, but it didn't stop them from taking the most talented player on the board at the time they picked.

Quinn couldn't help it that the Vikings were totally sold on Tarvaris and that the Dolphins would be just plain stupid.

3. Jamal Lewis, Reuben Droughns, Lee Suggs, William Green, James Jackson, Jamel White, Travis Prentice, Terry Kirby, Leroy Hoard, Tommy Vardell, and Eric Metcalf agree.

Point taken. Easier for most franchises, I guess I should have said!

 

[Bobcat10]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

This assumes they couldn't take a different QB at 2.04 to achieve similar results. Kolb or Beck could have come in one year earlier without giving up a shot at Darren McFadden or Jake Long or whoever you like to fill a team need.

1. Yes it does. That's why I made the caveat of "if Quinn flops". But who has a bigger chance of flopping - Quinn, Kolb, or Beck. If I HAD to bet, it wouldn't be Quinn.

The reality is, he wasn't a top 5 pick this year. He was pick #22. And his performances are going to have to be significantly better than those of Kolb and Beck to truly have the value commensurate with what the Browns gave up.

2. He was #22 because need didn't fit availablity, not because of talent.

What would be better for the Browns - Kolb/Beck + McFadden or just Quinn?

3. If you're asking me, I say Quinn. I've been pretty clear for some time in my belief that he's an NFL QB and is a MUCH superior prospect to Kolb/Beck. Addressing the RB position is a lot simpler than the QB spot.

1. Quinn doesn't have to flop. Even if he becomes a good but not great QB, it's probably not worth it.2. If you're talented enough, need is irrelevant. The Dolphins couldn't have used him? The Vikings? The Vikings didn't NEED a RB, but it didn't stop them from taking the most talented player on the board at the time they picked.

3. Jamal Lewis, Reuben Droughns, Lee Suggs, William Green, James Jackson, Jamel White, Travis Prentice, Terry Kirby, Leroy Hoard, Tommy Vardell, and Eric Metcalf agree.

1. Well you did say probably. I'm sure if you mixed in a title, nobody in Cleveland would care if he was just "good".2. The Browns did that with their 1st three picks in 2007.

3. Top 5 RBs are a lock (re: McFadden)?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Maybe, after watching the guy at ND for the last several years, I am too jaded to think he's really going to perform like a top 5 pick. I just don't think it's likely to happen, and throwing him to the wolves this year when the rest of the team still sucks donkey balls is just more likely to turn him into that bust. I think using the 2nd rounder to get a decent player, then drafting a REAL top 5 guy next year might have been worth the extra $$.

I don't know how it's going to turn out. My point was that based on what some people are posting they seem to think the trade was next year's #1 for Quinn, when in reality they gave up much more than that.

But they really didn't "give up" that 2nd. They just traded down to 2.21, a difference of 17 spots, where they still were able to select Eric Wright, who should be a starter.I look at who they could have taken with that 2.04 pick and I don't see a player there and between the 2.21 that was better (maybe Chris Houston) than Eric Wright.

So you move down 17 spots in the 2nd, get a player just as good as you could have gotten at 2.04, and use your next year's #1 pick in order to draft a guy that may have Top 5 QB talent. A good move in my eyes.

Quinn, Wright, $$$$ > 2.04 and their 1st next year

XThe deal for Wright was completely separate. The Browns could have done that deal without trading for Quinn or getting rid of the '08 pick.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Maybe, after watching the guy at ND for the last several years, I am too jaded to think he's really going to perform like a top 5 pick. I just don't think it's likely to happen, and throwing him to the wolves this year when the rest of the team still sucks donkey balls is just more likely to turn him into that bust. I think using the 2nd rounder to get a decent player, then drafting a REAL top 5 guy next year might have been worth the extra $$.

I don't know how it's going to turn out. My point was that based on what some people are posting they seem to think the trade was next year's #1 for Quinn, when in reality they gave up much more than that.

But they really didn't "give up" that 2nd. They just traded down to 2.21, a difference of 17 spots, where they still were able to select Eric Wright, who should be a starter.I look at who they could have taken with that 2.04 pick and I don't see a player there and between the 2.21 that was better (maybe Chris Houston) than Eric Wright.

So you move down 17 spots in the 2nd, get a player just as good as you could have gotten at 2.04, and use your next year's #1 pick in order to draft a guy that may have Top 5 QB talent. A good move in my eyes.

Quinn, Wright, $$$$ > 2.04 and their 1st next year

XThe deal for Wright was completely separate. The Browns could have done that deal without trading for Quinn or getting rid of the '08 pick.

No it wasn't. The Browns traded next year's 1st and this year's 2.04 for the Cowboys 1.22 and 2.21.Edit: Oh crap, you're right.

Cleveland traded their third-round selection (67th overall, used to select James Marten), their fourth-round selection (103rd overall, used to select Isaiah Stanback), and their sixth-round selection (178th overall, used to select Nick Folk) to Dallas for their second-round selection (53rd overall, used to select Eric Wright) and their first sixth-round selection (195th overall, traded to Cleveland Browns).

Not sure where that leaves me now.

 

[Bobcat10]

Maybe, after watching the guy at ND for the last several years, I am too jaded to think he's really going to perform like a top 5 pick. I just don't think it's likely to happen, and throwing him to the wolves this year when the rest of the team still sucks donkey balls is just more likely to turn him into that bust. I think using the 2nd rounder to get a decent player, then drafting a REAL top 5 guy next year might have been worth the extra $$.

I don't know how it's going to turn out. My point was that based on what some people are posting they seem to think the trade was next year's #1 for Quinn, when in reality they gave up much more than that.

But they really didn't "give up" that 2nd. They just traded down to 2.21, a difference of 17 spots, where they still were able to select Eric Wright, who should be a starter.I look at who they could have taken with that 2.04 pick and I don't see a player there and between the 2.21 that was better (maybe Chris Houston) than Eric Wright.

So you move down 17 spots in the 2nd, get a player just as good as you could have gotten at 2.04, and use your next year's #1 pick in order to draft a guy that may have Top 5 QB talent. A good move in my eyes.

Quinn, Wright, $$$$ > 2.04 and their 1st next year

XThe deal for Wright was completely separate. The Browns could have done that deal without trading for Quinn or getting rid of the '08 pick.

No it wasn't. The Browns traded next year's 1st and this year's 2.04 for the Cowboys 1.22 and 2.21.Edit: Oh crap, you're right.

Cleveland traded their third-round selection (67th overall, used to select James Marten), their fourth-round selection (103rd overall, used to select Isaiah Stanback), and their sixth-round selection (178th overall, used to select Nick Folk) to Dallas for their second-round selection (53rd overall, used to select Eric Wright) and their first sixth-round selection (195th overall, traded to Cleveland Browns).

Not sure where that leaves me now.

Andy that's not true.

Cleveland traded their third-round selection (67th overall, used to select James Marten), their fourth-round selection (103rd overall, used to select Isaiah Stanback), and their sixth-round selection (178th overall, used to select Nick Folk) to Dallas for their second-round selection (53rd overall, used to select Eric Wright) and their first sixth-round selection (195th overall, traded to Cleveland Browns).

But I still think they do not have to be talked about separately.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Maybe, after watching the guy at ND for the last several years, I am too jaded to think he's really going to perform like a top 5 pick. I just don't think it's likely to happen, and throwing him to the wolves this year when the rest of the team still sucks donkey balls is just more likely to turn him into that bust. I think using the 2nd rounder to get a decent player, then drafting a REAL top 5 guy next year might have been worth the extra $$.

I don't know how it's going to turn out. My point was that based on what some people are posting they seem to think the trade was next year's #1 for Quinn, when in reality they gave up much more than that.

But they really didn't "give up" that 2nd. They just traded down to 2.21, a difference of 17 spots, where they still were able to select Eric Wright, who should be a starter.I look at who they could have taken with that 2.04 pick and I don't see a player there and between the 2.21 that was better (maybe Chris Houston) than Eric Wright.

So you move down 17 spots in the 2nd, get a player just as good as you could have gotten at 2.04, and use your next year's #1 pick in order to draft a guy that may have Top 5 QB talent. A good move in my eyes.

Quinn, Wright, $$$$ > 2.04 and their 1st next year

XThe deal for Wright was completely separate. The Browns could have done that deal without trading for Quinn or getting rid of the '08 pick.

No it wasn't. The Browns traded next year's 1st and this year's 2.04 for the Cowboys 1.22 and 2.21.Edit: Oh crap, you're right.

Cleveland traded their third-round selection (67th overall, used to select James Marten), their fourth-round selection (103rd overall, used to select Isaiah Stanback), and their sixth-round selection (178th overall, used to select Nick Folk) to Dallas for their second-round selection (53rd overall, used to select Eric Wright) and their first sixth-round selection (195th overall, traded to Cleveland Browns).

Not sure where that leaves me now.

Andy that's not true.

Cleveland traded their third-round selection (67th overall, used to select James Marten), their fourth-round selection (103rd overall, used to select Isaiah Stanback), and their sixth-round selection (178th overall, used to select Nick Folk) to Dallas for their second-round selection (53rd overall, used to select Eric Wright) and their first sixth-round selection (195th overall, traded to Cleveland Browns).

But I still think they do not have to be talked about separately.

I see we're using the same source! Caught you with an edit. Sorry.

 

[amnesiac]

You Seattle guys will have some cool McDonald's commercials soon.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Everyone seems to forget that Quinn cost a likely top 5 pick in 08, AND a top 4 pick in the 2nd round in 07. That pick was Kevin Kolb (after Dal traded again), could have been Beck or any other QB in the draft after quinn, or it could have been more help on the line, or on defense.

If Quinn performs like a top 5 pick, then giving up a top 4 2nd round pick to acquire Top 5 QB skills one year earlier is a good move.If Quinn flops, then giving up anything is a mistake, not to mention drafting him in the first place.

This assumes they couldn't take a different QB at 2.04 to achieve similar results. Kolb or Beck could have come in one year earlier without giving up a shot at Darren McFadden or Jake Long or whoever you like to fill a team need.

1. Yes it does. That's why I made the caveat of "if Quinn flops". But who has a bigger chance of flopping - Quinn, Kolb, or Beck. If I HAD to bet, it wouldn't be Quinn.

The reality is, he wasn't a top 5 pick this year. He was pick #22. And his performances are going to have to be significantly better than those of Kolb and Beck to truly have the value commensurate with what the Browns gave up.

2. He was #22 because need didn't fit availablity, not because of talent.

What would be better for the Browns - Kolb/Beck + McFadden or just Quinn?

3. If you're asking me, I say Quinn. I've been pretty clear for some time in my belief that he's an NFL QB and is a MUCH superior prospect to Kolb/Beck. Addressing the RB position is a lot simpler than the QB spot.

1. Quinn doesn't have to flop. Even if he becomes a good but not great QB, it's probably not worth it.2. If you're talented enough, need is irrelevant. The Dolphins couldn't have used him? The Vikings? The Vikings didn't NEED a RB, but it didn't stop them from taking the most talented player on the board at the time they picked.

3. Jamal Lewis, Reuben Droughns, Lee Suggs, William Green, James Jackson, Jamel White, Travis Prentice, Terry Kirby, Leroy Hoard, Tommy Vardell, and Eric Metcalf agree.

1. Well you did say probably. I'm sure if you mixed in a title, nobody in Cleveland would care if he was just "good".2. The Browns did that with their 1st three picks in 2007.

3. Top 5 RBs are a lock (re: McFadden)?

1. Well, duh. But now they have to get that title with a "good" QB and no high first round pick next season. Most people would view that as being more difficult.2. OK. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

3. Not anymore than QBs picked at #22. But I'd rather diversify and take the chance that the top five pick in the second OR the top five pick in the '08 first will work out. And you have a chance to hit two HRs instead of one. Or even get on base twice. My only point was that there's a vast middle ground between "Brady flops" and "Brady becomes a HOFer" that makes that first-round pick next year much harder to dismiss as a mere roll of the dice.

 

[Bobcat10]

Maybe, after watching the guy at ND for the last several years, I am too jaded to think he's really going to perform like a top 5 pick. I just don't think it's likely to happen, and throwing him to the wolves this year when the rest of the team still sucks donkey balls is just more likely to turn him into that bust. I think using the 2nd rounder to get a decent player, then drafting a REAL top 5 guy next year might have been worth the extra $$.

I don't know how it's going to turn out. My point was that based on what some people are posting they seem to think the trade was next year's #1 for Quinn, when in reality they gave up much more than that.

But they really didn't "give up" that 2nd. They just traded down to 2.21, a difference of 17 spots, where they still were able to select Eric Wright, who should be a starter.I look at who they could have taken with that 2.04 pick and I don't see a player there and between the 2.21 that was better (maybe Chris Houston) than Eric Wright.

So you move down 17 spots in the 2nd, get a player just as good as you could have gotten at 2.04, and use your next year's #1 pick in order to draft a guy that may have Top 5 QB talent. A good move in my eyes.

Quinn, Wright, $$$$ > 2.04 and their 1st next year

XThe deal for Wright was completely separate. The Browns could have done that deal without trading for Quinn or getting rid of the '08 pick.

No it wasn't. The Browns traded next year's 1st and this year's 2.04 for the Cowboys 1.22 and 2.21.Edit: Oh crap, you're right.

Cleveland traded their third-round selection (67th overall, used to select James Marten), their fourth-round selection (103rd overall, used to select Isaiah Stanback), and their sixth-round selection (178th overall, used to select Nick Folk) to Dallas for their second-round selection (53rd overall, used to select Eric Wright) and their first sixth-round selection (195th overall, traded to Cleveland Browns).

Not sure where that leaves me now.

It really doesn't change anything. Savage had to have had Quinn rated way higher than the Kolb's of the past draft. And he still got great value talent in the 2nd. RB can be filled, especially with an OLine that should get better together with time (Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley/LCharles, etc).

 

[Bob Sacamano]

But I still think they do not have to be talked about separately.

Would they have decided to make the deal if they didn't trade for Quinn? Maybe not. But they absolutely have to be evaluated separately. Or at the very least in sum total (And given Dallas' recent draft history, I'm not willing to just sub in the players they took with those picks. )

 

[amnesiac]

Its amazing Cleveland got anything for Charlie Frye.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

1 Darren McFadden TB Arkansas 6-2/215

2 Steve Slaton RB West Virginia 5-10/195

3 Mike Hart RB Michigan 5-9/196

4 Ray Rice RB Rutgers 5-9/195

5 Tashard Choice RB Georgia Tech 6-1/205

6 Ian Johnson RB Boise State 5-11/194

7 Jonathan Stewart RB Oregon 5-11/234

8 P.J. Hill RB Wisconsin 5-11/222

Should be able to get a decent RB at 2.01.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 Darren McFadden TB Arkansas 6-2/215 2 Steve Slaton RB West Virginia 5-10/195 3 Mike Hart RB Michigan 5-9/196 4 Ray Rice RB Rutgers 5-9/195 5 Tashard Choice RB Georgia Tech 6-1/205 6 Ian Johnson RB Boise State 5-11/194 7 Jonathan Stewart RB Oregon 5-11/234 8 P.J. Hill RB Wisconsin 5-11/222 Should be able to get a decent RB at 2.01.

Opportunity cost.

 

[cstu]

1 Darren McFadden TB Arkansas 6-2/215 2 Steve Slaton RB West Virginia 5-10/195 3 Mike Hart RB Michigan 5-9/196 4 Ray Rice RB Rutgers 5-9/195 5 Tashard Choice RB Georgia Tech 6-1/205 6 Ian Johnson RB Boise State 5-11/194 7 Jonathan Stewart RB Oregon 5-11/234 8 P.J. Hill RB Wisconsin 5-11/222 Should be able to get a decent RB at 2.01.

Marlon Lucky.

 

[SoloMatisse]

I sure hope Ray Rice stays ranked as the 4th best RB for Cleveland's sake because then he probably would fall to the 2nd round, and that's the guy I think theyd love to get. I think he's more like 205-210 though. He's definitely bigger than 195.

 

[Fallerjw]

Its amazing Cleveland got anything for Charlie Frye.

I can't put enough of these on here to explain how true it is.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I sure hope Ray Rice stays ranked as the 4th best RB for Cleveland's sake because then he probably would fall to the 2nd round, and that's the guy I think theyd love to get. I think he's more like 205-210 though. He's definitely bigger than 195.

List cut/pasted from Rivals.com.All those guys will likely play bigger once they get to the NFL.

 

[Peak]

Its amazing Cleveland got anything for Charlie Frye.

I can't put enough of these on here to explain how true it is.

 

[cacksman]

1 Darren McFadden TB Arkansas 6-2/215 2 Steve Slaton RB West Virginia 5-10/195 3 Mike Hart RB Michigan 5-9/196 4 Ray Rice RB Rutgers 5-9/195 5 Tashard Choice RB Georgia Tech 6-1/205 6 Ian Johnson RB Boise State 5-11/194 7 Jonathan Stewart RB Oregon 5-11/234 8 P.J. Hill RB Wisconsin 5-11/222 Should be able to get a decent RB at 2.01.

FWIW Jonathan Stewart will be rated MUCH higher than the #7 RB. He will be taken in the first round, especially after he puts up a monster time in the 40 with his huge size.