Future Yankee HOFers from the 1996-2000 era (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

Looking back at the team that won 4 titles in 5 years and their HOF chances . . .

IN ALREADY

Boggs

GOING TO BE IN

Jeter, Rivera

IMO, those are the only true locks. Moving on . . .

NUMBERS SAY HE'S IN, BUT STEROIDS MAY NOT

Clemens

BORDERLINE CANDIDATES

Williams, Raines, Posada

OTHER GUYS WITH SOLID CAREER NUMBERS BUT PROBABLY NOT HOFers

Pettitte, Cone, Wells, Canseco, Soriano

Those are a lot of excellent players from one team. They had other players that were good to very good as well (O'Neill, Tino, Justice, etc.). Somehow I would have thought there would have been more HOFers though. Maybe just the sum of a lot of excellent parts . . .

 

[Michael Brown]

Looking back at the team that won 4 titles in 5 years and their HOF chances . . .IN ALREADYBoggsGOING TO BE INJeter, RiveraIMO, those are the only true locks. Moving on . . .NUMBERS SAY HE'S IN, BUT STEROIDS MAY NOTClemensBORDERLINE CANDIDATESWilliams, Raines, PosadaOTHER GUYS WITH SOLID CAREER NUMBERS BUT PROBABLY NOT HOFersPettitte, Cone, Wells, Canseco, SorianoThose are a lot of excellent players from one team. They had other players that were good to very good as well (O'Neill, Tino, Justice, etc.). Somehow I would have thought there would have been more HOFers though. Maybe just the sum of a lot of excellent parts . . .

Yeah they had a lot of guys whose career peaks coincided (not Canseco) during one era. Bernie has no shot, Posada would need a number of top-end seasons at catcher (which I don't think he has), and Raines needs to get more consideration from the writers.Aside from those guys, I can't see any of the others getting in. Pettitte, Cone, and Wells will all have 200+ wins but fall short of the new probable baseline of 250 and none of them were ever considered dominant enough in their prime to get in with lower win totals (a la Pedro).Torre will get in too, but I know you were just referring to players.

 

[blackjack23]

Looking back at the team that won 4 titles in 5 years and their HOF chances . . .IN ALREADYBoggsGOING TO BE INJeter, RiveraIMO, those are the only true locks. Moving on . . .NUMBERS SAY HE'S IN, BUT STEROIDS MAY NOTClemensBORDERLINE CANDIDATESWilliams, Raines, PosadaOTHER GUYS WITH SOLID CAREER NUMBERS BUT PROBABLY NOT HOFersPettitte, Cone, Wells, Canseco, SorianoThose are a lot of excellent players from one team. They had other players that were good to very good as well (O'Neill, Tino, Justice, etc.). Somehow I would have thought there would have been more HOFers though. Maybe just the sum of a lot of excellent parts . . .

agree on Jeter & Rivera. I dont think Posada or Williams are even borderline.

 

[Oh Yes!]

bonds. Barry bonds.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I dont think Posada or Williams are even borderline.

They're not.This is a pretty bad thread.

 

[Giantseasonticketholder]

Bernie is a lot closer than people think. His post season #'s/heroics are impressive.

Raines should be in, but as an Expo!

 

[dparker713]

Raines should be a lock along with Jeter and Rivera. Of the other people, I think only Cone is even deserving of consideration, though Soriano still has time to post significant seasons.

 

[David Yudkin]

Raines should be a lock along with Jeter and Rivera. Of the other people, I think only Cone is even deserving of consideration, though Soriano still has time to post significant seasons.

I hardly think Raines is a lock, and IMO he'd be borderline and probably on the wrong side of the fence. I don't see him much different than Lofton or Damon. But maybe that's just me.

 

[trogg78]

Canseco should be next to Clemens. Numbers say he should be in.

 

[Oh Yes!]

bonds. Barry bonds.

im an idiot

 

[whoknew]

Raines should be a lock along with Jeter and Rivera. Of the other people, I think only Cone is even deserving of consideration, though Soriano still has time to post significant seasons.

I hardly think Raines is a lock, and IMO he'd be borderline and probably on the wrong side of the fence. I don't see him much different than Lofton or Damon. But maybe that's just me.

Lofton 107 OPS+/622 SB (79.5% success rate)/130 HRDamon 103 OPS+/363 SB (79% success rate)/183 HRRaines 124 OPS+/808 SB (84.7% success rate)/170 HRPretty clearly Raines was easily the best of those three.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Raines should be a lock along with Jeter and Rivera. Of the other people, I think only Cone is even deserving of consideration, though Soriano still has time to post significant seasons.

I hardly think Raines is a lock, and IMO he'd be borderline and probably on the wrong side of the fence. I don't see him much different than Lofton or Damon. But maybe that's just me.

Lofton 107 OPS+/622 SB (79.5% success rate)/130 HRDamon 103 OPS+/363 SB (79% success rate)/183 HRRaines 124 OPS+/808 SB (84.7% success rate)/170 HRPretty clearly Raines was easily the best of those three.

That OPS number is made more impressive by the fact that Raines played 23 years to Lofton's 17 and Damon's 15 (so far). Those extra years at the end tend to weigh career averages down.I'm not generally a big fan of base stealers, but when a guy is an OBP freak and can steal at an 85% clip like Raines, that's a huge weapon at the top of a lineup.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Raines should be a lock along with Jeter and Rivera. Of the other people, I think only Cone is even deserving of consideration, though Soriano still has time to post significant seasons.

I hardly think Raines is a lock, and IMO he'd be borderline and probably on the wrong side of the fence. I don't see him much different than Lofton or Damon. But maybe that's just me.

Lofton 107 OPS+/622 SB (79.5% success rate)/130 HRDamon 103 OPS+/363 SB (79% success rate)/183 HRRaines 124 OPS+/808 SB (84.7% success rate)/170 HRPretty clearly Raines was easily the best of those three.

Yeah Raines is at least Hall of the Very Good. Lofton and Damon are the hot dog stand in front of that building.

 

[David Yudkin]

Raines should be a lock along with Jeter and Rivera. Of the other people, I think only Cone is even deserving of consideration, though Soriano still has time to post significant seasons.

I hardly think Raines is a lock, and IMO he'd be borderline and probably on the wrong side of the fence. I don't see him much different than Lofton or Damon. But maybe that's just me.

Lofton 107 OPS+/622 SB (79.5% success rate)/130 HRDamon 103 OPS+/363 SB (79% success rate)/183 HRRaines 124 OPS+/808 SB (84.7% success rate)/170 HRPretty clearly Raines was easily the best of those three.

Here are some HOF Monitor scores for similar OF/leadoff types (with 100 normally the low point for HOF consideration):Vizquel 104 (obviously not an OF)Maury Wills 104 (obviously not an OF)Pinson 95Edgar Renteria 94 (obviously not an OF)Lofton 91Raines 89Minoso 87McGee 83Damon 72Finley 72Clearly HOF Monitor Score is but one of many statistics, but Raines certainly does not fair exceedingly well in that cartegory, and the company he keeps in that regard would not be that of "lock HOFer."

 

[dparker713]

Raines should be a lock along with Jeter and Rivera. Of the other people, I think only Cone is even deserving of consideration, though Soriano still has time to post significant seasons.

I hardly think Raines is a lock, and IMO he'd be borderline and probably on the wrong side of the fence. I don't see him much different than Lofton or Damon. But maybe that's just me.

Lofton 107 OPS+/622 SB (79.5% success rate)/130 HRDamon 103 OPS+/363 SB (79% success rate)/183 HRRaines 124 OPS+/808 SB (84.7% success rate)/170 HRPretty clearly Raines was easily the best of those three.

Here are some HOF Monitor scores for similar OF/leadoff types (with 100 normally the low point for HOF consideration):Vizquel 104 (obviously not an OF)Maury Wills 104 (obviously not an OF)Pinson 95Edgar Renteria 94 (obviously not an OF)Lofton 91Raines 89Minoso 87McGee 83Damon 72Finley 72Clearly HOF Monitor Score is but one of many statistics, but Raines certainly does not fair exceedingly well in that cartegory, and the company he keeps in that regard would not be that of "lock HOFer."

That metric gives no points for steals and gives points for BA and not OBP. Now that may be reflective of how the voting has been going on in the past, but hopefully the writers are starting to understand the value of OBP over BA. Raines was the NL version of Rickey Henderson, not as powerful but he was damn good. Problem was he toiled in Montreal so no one saw him. Now, his peak years didnt last too long, but he did stick around and was a good player for a long time.And Vizquel may have a shot as a defensive standout over a long period of time at a premium position. He's no Ozzie Smith, but he's likely to be remembered as the premier defensive shortstop of his era.

 

[BoulderBob]

Raines should be a lock along with Jeter and Rivera. Of the other people, I think only Cone is even deserving of consideration, though Soriano still has time to post significant seasons.

I hardly think Raines is a lock, and IMO he'd be borderline and probably on the wrong side of the fence. I don't see him much different than Lofton or Damon. But maybe that's just me.

Lofton 107 OPS+/622 SB (79.5% success rate)/130 HRDamon 103 OPS+/363 SB (79% success rate)/183 HRRaines 124 OPS+/808 SB (84.7% success rate)/170 HRPretty clearly Raines was easily the best of those three.

Here are some HOF Monitor scores for similar OF/leadoff types (with 100 normally the low point for HOF consideration):Vizquel 104 (obviously not an OF)Maury Wills 104 (obviously not an OF)Pinson 95Edgar Renteria 94 (obviously not an OF)Lofton 91Raines 89Minoso 87McGee 83Damon 72Finley 72Clearly HOF Monitor Score is but one of many statistics, but Raines certainly does not fair exceedingly well in that cartegory, and the company he keeps in that regard would not be that of "lock HOFer."

That metric gives no points for steals and gives points for BA and not OBP. Now that may be reflective of how the voting has been going on in the past, but hopefully the writers are starting to understand the value of OBP over BA. Raines was the NL version of Rickey Henderson, not as powerful but he was damn good. Problem was he toiled in Montreal so no one saw him. Now, his peak years didnt last too long, but he did stick around and was a good player for a long time.And Vizquel may have a shot as a defensive standout over a long period of time at a premium position. He's no Ozzie Smith, but he's likely to be remembered as the premier defensive shortstop of his era.

The Rock never received the respect from the media he deserved, and I doubt the HOF voters recognize him for quite some time. Tis a shame...

 

[David Yudkin]

I am not anti-Raines, but I'm not seeing the HOF love that apparently some others are. For whatever reason, he only played in 69% of the games his teams played. He only played in more than 140 games 8 times in 23 seasons. Seven time all star but only once in the Top 5 in MVP balloting. His ranks 132nd in career OBP (his #2 best attribute after his SB). And it's not like he was a stalwart defensively, as his range was below league average and he never won a Gold Glove. IMO, he benefits from playing for seemingly forever. I agree he should be in the Hall of Very Good. But HOF?