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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (3 Viewers)

ConnSKINS26 said:
What an epic, phenomenal episode. You know the Battle of Winterfell was incredible when no one is even hardly talking about the Greyjoys already meeting up with Dany or the dragons going HAM on the boats. They nailed every second of that battle, wow.

The ONLY improvement I can think of, is if they didn't wanna spend the $$ to have Ghost in battle scenes in the same episode where they had dragon destruction, etc....they should have had him just casually prowl into Winterfell while the cleanup is happening at the end absolutely soaked in blood. Just instead of white, a blood red Ghost walking in and standing by Jon. Would have been badass and implied his part of the battle that they couldn't show or whatever.
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Would have been fantastic if Ghost was what came out at the end instead of Ramsey's dogs to finish him off.  He hears a growling and says in his cocky voice "they won't turn on me", to turn around and see that. 

 
Scoresman said:
Sophie Turner is super underrated. I just got through season 2 and 3  on a rewatch and Sansa's subtle transformation in her character from then to now has been terrific. 
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I agree. She has been a slow burn for me, now she's on fire. Love the character and the actress now. Big fan.

 
packersfan said:
The camera work and cinematography were so well done. Like Saving Private Ryan the feeling was one of pure chaos which I can only imagine is what a battle and war must feel like. Just bodies flying all over the place, weapons everywhere, death and destruction all around you. This was about as perfect as you can get when it comes to film making in my opinion. It was so well done. This is one of those episodes I know I'll end up watching dozens of times just to appreciate everything that took place. 
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I guess maybe I would get less intense upon follow up viewings, but the carnage and violence was so in your face it was hard for me.  Like someone said above, it was so well done you almost felt like you were being suffocated.  And the piles and piles of bodies... ugh, that was rough. 

 
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Sounds like Littlefinger is ready to hit that. Sansa needs to wisen up to the game like Dany needs to do. Not sure, would I rather have Tyrion advising me or Littlefinger? They didn't show Arya in the preview but hopefully they show her next week stepping back into Westeros. I doubt she shows up in Mereen. So much going on next episode and it's already the finale to this season. 

Winter is coming and it's only June 21st. 

 
How much has the budget increased in this show?  I remember kind of rolling my eyes back in season 2 when people said Blackwater was done to "movie quality".  But this.  This was so far beyond movie quality it makes movies look like cartoons.  Just amazing stuff.

And even the Mereen battle that CGI was not straight forward with the dragons but they nailed that too.

 
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Amazing effects for a television show both the battle scenes and the dragons.  Only thing I did not like is they made Ramsey out to be kind of a coward during the battle while Jon snow was in the thick of things. In the past, Ramsey always came across as a fearless sadistic killer.  Would have liked to have seen that side of him one last time outside of killing Rickard.   

 
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OK, I have some issues with this episode. Obviously it was incredibly well-shot, and it was a masterfully brutal episode of TV.

But the plot mechanics and character motivations were...questionable. Dany's city is getting bombed, and she takes time futzing about with Tyrion and setting up the "surrender", instead of just taking the dragon and flambaying the boats, which (rightly?) seemed almost completely defenseless.

Ramsay lets Rickon go, and I'm almost 100% sure that he could not have been 100% sure that he was going to nail him with an arrow. He missed 3 times before, and Jon nearly grabbed him and spirited him out of range. Rickon probably should've sprinted, then turned around and backpedaled all the way back, as then he could've seen the arrows coming. I think the cowardice at the end there was in line with his character. He was a sadistic dude, but it was always with the odds in his favor. He wasn't a legitimately tough guy.

How Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger now negotiate each other is going to be interesting, but a) that was some deus ex machina-type #### with the Knights of the Vale, and b) it's hard to believe that Sansa can't ever bring herself to tell Jon about the KOTV possibly coming. If they had showed up a day later, Jon and Co. are all toast. Sansa's back in rapeville, Jon's dead dead, everyone else is dead dead.

I dunno.

 
Wunwun seems to be a somewhat crappy fighter for his size. Instead of swiping at spears and tearing folk apart one by one, he should have jumped over the army shield wall, and started rolling around/making snow angels. H

 
Good Posting Judge said:
OK, I have some issues with this episode. Obviously it was incredibly well-shot, and it was a masterfully brutal episode of TV.

But the plot mechanics and character motivations were...questionable. Dany's city is getting bombed, and she takes time futzing about with Tyrion and setting up the "surrender", instead of just taking the dragon and flambaying the boats, which (rightly?) seemed almost completely defenseless.

Ramsay lets Rickon go, and I'm almost 100% sure that he could not have been 100% sure that he was going to nail him with an arrow. He missed 3 times before, and Jon nearly grabbed him and spirited him out of range. Rickon probably should've sprinted, then turned around and backpedaled all the way back, as then he could've seen the arrows coming. I think the cowardice at the end there was in line with his character. He was a sadistic dude, but it was always with the odds in his favor. He wasn't a legitimately tough guy.

How Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger now negotiate each other is going to be interesting, but a) that was some deus ex machina-type #### with the Knights of the Vale, and b) it's hard to believe that Sansa can't ever bring herself to tell Jon about the KOTV possibly coming. If they had showed up a day later, Jon and Co. are all toast. Sansa's back in rapeville, Jon's dead dead, everyone else is dead dead.

I dunno.
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Yeah, I hear you on Dany's talking it out with Tyrion and the set-up for the way the scene eventually played out with the surrender was pretty hokey, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe she needed to wait on the Dothraki horde to arrive or something, because it was just better story telling as shot, IMO.

Ramsey let Rickon go because he wanted to bate Jon Snow into attacking him, instead of having to charge into his fortifications. He knew Jon would ride out to where they had the burning/flayed man yardage markers for his archers, if he let Rickon go and made him run for safety. He also was goofing on the first 3 shots. He knew with the 4th he hit the mark (pretty good acting in that scene, man I hated that guy.) whether he hit Rickon or not, he knew he'd have Jon in a place where his archers could cut him down with a volley, or he'd have to charge. Brilliant strategy that worked, up until the cavalry came. I do agree that Ramsey ####ing out and turning tail was completely in character. The way Jon Snow beat on him, and then Sansa, at the end- man, that was some gratifying watching.

That episode was hands down the best thing I ever watched on TV. 

 
ProstheticRGK said:
Yeah, I hear you on Dany's talking it out with Tyrion and the set-up for the way the scene eventually played out with the surrender was pretty hokey, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe she needed to wait on the Dothraki horde to arrive or something, because it was just better story telling as shot, IMO.

Ramsey let Rickon go because he wanted to bate Jon Snow into attacking him, instead of having to charge into his fortifications. He knew Jon would ride out to where they had the burning/flayed man yardage markers for his archers, if he let Rickon go and made him run for safety. He also was goofing on the first 3 shots. He knew with the 4th he hit the mark (pretty good acting in that scene, man I hated that guy.) whether he hit Rickon or not, he knew he'd have Jon in a place where his archers could cut him down with a volley, or he'd have to charge. Brilliant strategy that worked, up until the cavalry came. I do agree that Ramsey ####ing out and turning tail was completely in character. The way Jon Snow beat on him, and then Sansa, at the end- man, that was some gratifying watching.

That episode was hands down the best thing I ever watched on TV. 
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Ramsey turning and running was 100% out character.  How do you think he got into the position he was in?  Not little finger cunning. His own father disliked him, but after his success on the battle field, he pretty much had to legitamize him

 
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None_More_Black said:
Ramsey turning and running was 100% out character.  How do you think he got into the position he was in?  Not little finger cunning. His own father disliked him, but after his success on the battle field, he pretty much had to legitamize him
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How did he win that battle, that got him legitimized? Was he out there like Ned Stark or Robert Baratheon, cutting dude's down, toe-to-toe? No, he used some guerilla tactics and outsmarted his enemy. He had skill. He knew he could hit Rickon with the arrow. He was quick with that dagger in the small of his back. But he wasn't a stand and fight guy, unless he had already assessed the situation and was sure he'd win. He was a "death from the shadows" guy.

His Karstark lieutenant went out and fought with the infantry, where was he? Not saying it wasn't the smart play, but he would always, always turn tail and run, if he was outmanned. No honor, just self-preservation and love of power/control.

 
None_More_Black said:
Ramsey turning and running was 100% out character.  How do you think he got into the position he was in?  Not little finger cunning. His own father disliked him, but after his success on the battle field, he pretty much had to legitamize him
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I think Ramsey's father alluded to the fact that Ramsey had made his rep on beating overmatched opponents on the field in the past, he had his number. He was 'brave' when he knew he would win.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
OK, I have some issues with this episode. Obviously it was incredibly well-shot, and it was a masterfully brutal episode of TV.

But the plot mechanics and character motivations were...questionable. Dany's city is getting bombed, and she takes time futzing about with Tyrion and setting up the "surrender", instead of just taking the dragon and flambaying the boats, which (rightly?) seemed almost completely defenseless.

Ramsay lets Rickon go, and I'm almost 100% sure that he could not have been 100% sure that he was going to nail him with an arrow. He missed 3 times before, and Jon nearly grabbed him and spirited him out of range. Rickon probably should've sprinted, then turned around and backpedaled all the way back, as then he could've seen the arrows coming. I think the cowardice at the end there was in line with his character. He was a sadistic dude, but it was always with the odds in his favor. He wasn't a legitimately tough guy.

How Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger now negotiate each other is going to be interesting, but a) that was some deus ex machina-type #### with the Knights of the Vale, and b) it's hard to believe that Sansa can't ever bring herself to tell Jon about the KOTV possibly coming. If they had showed up a day later, Jon and Co. are all toast. Sansa's back in rapeville, Jon's dead dead, everyone else is dead dead.

I dunno.
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I think Sansa's motivation makes sense because she knows that LF has a price and Jon would never accept that price or the help of the man who betrayed his sister and family.

 
Tormund/Umber fight was awesome. The entire episode was awesome. I did find one mistake though. When they had the meeting with Ramsey before the battle, Sansa says you will die tomorrow to Ramsey and rides away . After that, Ramsey says that he hasn't fed his dogs in 7 days. Fast forward to when Sansa is about to watch him die and she repeats the line " you said it yourself, you haven't fed the dogs in 7 days." She wasn't there when he said that. I guess she could have been told off screen but she didn't say it like that. 

 
Why the #### do you need boats when you have 3 flying fire breathing dragons

 
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Mario Kart said:
Sounds like Littlefinger is ready to hit that. Sansa needs to wisen up to the game like Dany needs to do. Not sure, would I rather have Tyrion advising me or Littlefinger? They didn't show Arya in the preview but hopefully they show her next week stepping back into Westeros. I doubt she shows up in Mereen. So much going on next episode and it's already the finale to this season. 

Winter is coming and it's only June 21st. 
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This isn't the Sansa of King's Landing. I think she knows that any deal with Little Finger comes with a price. That's why she waited so long to send him a note for help. She only did it as a last resort. I'd be more concerned about Little Finger's well being now between the two of them. Sansa's become well versed in how to play the game and she's not gonna take any prisoners. Hell she knew from the jump that Rickon was dead man walking and didn't shed a tear about it. The end game (killing Ramsay) is all that mattered to her.

Some other thoughts:

I'm setting the over/under on how many people Lyanna Mormont killed at 26. Of course when she said she had 62 fighting men she was including herself. What a tiny little bundle of bad ###.

Only bummer about the battle is Brienne didn't make it back on time to take part.

Sansa sure seemed to be channeling her inner Cersei watching Jon chasing after Ramsay up the hill at the end.  

I've already watched the episode a second time and will likely watch it at least once more again today. I don't know where it will rank on a show that will go down as one of the greatest in TV history but this was freaking ridiculously good. From start to finish this was magnificent.    

Cleveland can have LeBron. Wun Wun was last night's real MVP. RIP Wun Wun.  

So cool to finally see Dany and all her dragons finally kicking some ###. 

 
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Although at that point , the battle was lost I found it odd that Ramsey didn't take out Jon with that arrow he used to finish off Wun Wun. At that point , John didn't have that shield and he was standing right next to Wun Wun. Agreed with many about Wun Wun being awesome. My favorite among many of his bad ### scenes was when he swatted that horse about 20 yards.

Jon Snow fought like a man possessed. Ramsey outsmarted him with the Rickon move but thankfully his front line met theirs right when it was about to hit the fan for Jon. During the battle, I kept waiting for the Umbers to switch sides , Irish in Braveheart style. When Ramsey sent in the Umbers I thought they were going to turn on him, but it was the Vale, as expected, that saved the day. When they dropped that Stark banner I was cheering in my living room. 

You always knew somewhere down the line that Davos was going to find out what happened to Shireen. It will be interesting to see how that plays out .

The Dany scenes were outstanding. It showed her arsenal and how deadly it is. Adding the Greyjoys pretty much polishes off her attack IMO. The 2 dragons that were chained up for a while are noticeably smaller than the main one (drogon?) but they will catch up. 3 dragons in the air with her at the helm. Greyjoys by sea, Dothraki / Unsullied on the ground. Who is stopping that as far as real battle and not walkers ?

 
belljr said:
Why the #### do you need boats when you have 3 flying fire breathing dragons
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Because you also have Unsullied, Second Sons and a Dothraki horde to move across the ocean. Are they going to take turns riding three dragons ferrying them back and forth? 

 
Good Posting Judge said:
OK, I have some issues with this episode. Obviously it was incredibly well-shot, and it was a masterfully brutal episode of TV.

But the plot mechanics and character motivations were...questionable. Dany's city is getting bombed, and she takes time futzing about with Tyrion and setting up the "surrender", instead of just taking the dragon and flambaying the boats, which (rightly?) seemed almost completely defenseless.

Ramsay lets Rickon go, and I'm almost 100% sure that he could not have been 100% sure that he was going to nail him with an arrow. He missed 3 times before, and Jon nearly grabbed him and spirited him out of range. Rickon probably should've sprinted, then turned around and backpedaled all the way back, as then he could've seen the arrows coming. I think the cowardice at the end there was in line with his character. He was a sadistic dude, but it was always with the odds in his favor. He wasn't a legitimately tough guy.

How Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger now negotiate each other is going to be interesting, but a) that was some deus ex machina-type #### with the Knights of the Vale, and b) it's hard to believe that Sansa can't ever bring herself to tell Jon about the KOTV possibly coming. If they had showed up a day later, Jon and Co. are all toast. Sansa's back in rapeville, Jon's dead dead, everyone else is dead dead.

I dunno.
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She let one of the masters live. She needed the fanfare to deliver the message. She had to ensure he watched her mount the dragon and torch their ships.

She needed them to know who defeated them and how, and spread that message.

 
packersfan said:
Wun Wun was last night's real MVP. RIP Wun Wun.  
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Hard to believe he's the last giant. I'm just not buying it, but that's me. I'd like to think there still up there in the North somewhere.

However in a big way so far the superweapons have been the the dragons and the giant. Without those added unstoppable elements the history of GOT is much different.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
OK, I have some issues with this episode. Obviously it was incredibly well-shot, and it was a masterfully brutal episode of TV.

But the plot mechanics and character motivations were...questionable. Dany's city is getting bombed, and she takes time futzing about with Tyrion and setting up the "surrender", instead of just taking the dragon and flambaying the boats, which (rightly?) seemed almost completely defenseless.

Ramsay lets Rickon go, and I'm almost 100% sure that he could not have been 100% sure that he was going to nail him with an arrow. He missed 3 times before, and Jon nearly grabbed him and spirited him out of range. Rickon probably should've sprinted, then turned around and backpedaled all the way back, as then he could've seen the arrows coming. I think the cowardice at the end there was in line with his character. He was a sadistic dude, but it was always with the odds in his favor. He wasn't a legitimately tough guy.

How Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger now negotiate each other is going to be interesting, but a) that was some deus ex machina-type #### with the Knights of the Vale, and b) it's hard to believe that Sansa can't ever bring herself to tell Jon about the KOTV possibly coming. If they had showed up a day later, Jon and Co. are all toast. Sansa's back in rapeville, Jon's dead dead, everyone else is dead dead.

I dunno.
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Actually, Sansa keeping the KOTV as her secret won the battle. If she told Jon about them, he would have waited for them to arrive and join ranks. Bolton would have seen this and stayed inside Winterfell. I doubt the good guys win in that scenario.

 
Rick James said:
Actually, Sansa keeping the KOTV as her secret won the battle. If she told Jon about them, he would have waited for them to arrive and join ranks. Bolton would have seen this and stayed inside Winterfell. I doubt the good guys win in that scenario.
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- Some of the thinking behind Sansa is at odds though... maybe 3 episodes ago Sansa is saying they must attack and take Winterfell because 'that monster has our brother.' Now, it's 'our brother is as good as dead already.'

 
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Firing a barrage of arrows into his own soldiers and just killing everyone is pretty sadistic. Makes sense from a strategy standpoint but still pretty in line with his MO.

 
Rick James said:
Actually, Sansa keeping the KOTV as her secret won the battle. If she told Jon about them, he would have waited for them to arrive and join ranks. Bolton would have seen this and stayed inside Winterfell. I doubt the good guys win in that scenario.
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Jon's a great warrior but he doesn't know how to play the game. Sansa now does. So does Tyrion. So while Jon fought the fight and beat Ramsay to a pulp and Dany flew the dragons and breathed fire down upon the masters' lead ship it was other means which led to the respective victories. Sansa's backdoor dealings with Little Finger brought in the troops and Tyrion getting the masters to meet broker a surrender they assumed was going to be Dany's. Sansa and Tyrion were playing the game while Jon and Dany were fighting the fight.  

Damn this is a great show. It must go on forever.   

 
Someone further up really nicely set out the rules of succession.... what is the lay of the land for the Starks now in terms of who has claim to rule assuming Bran is out of the picture as a future wizard/Raven and not a lord?

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Sansa's always been the smartest of the Starks from day one, including both her parents and all her siblings.
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Really?  She is the one that told Cersei they were leaving Kings Landing that got Ned captured.  She has transformed but was a dumb teenager at the start. 

 
Rick James said:
hilariously false. She essentially got her father killed by blabbing his plans to Cersei. 
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yeah, she spent the first couple of seasons making terrible decisions. And I'm not convinced she knows how to play the game. She was useless on the Stark recruiting trip and I don't think she thought this Littlefinger deal through all the way. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
- Some of the thinking behind Sansa is at odds though... maybe 3 episodes ago Sansa is saying they must attack and take Winterfell because 'that monster has our brother.' Now, it's 'our brother is as good as dead already.'
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She was waiting for the Knoghts of the Vale to arrive. Knew if they weren't in the fight Jon wouldn't win. Also wasn't the first quote when she still thought the could rustle up a ton of support from the northern houses?  I think she went from emotional to shrewd over the last few episodes. 

 
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