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Get Your Butt Back To The Office (2 Viewers)

My daughter is currently looking for work in a professional field. She excelled at school during COVID with at home studies. She can do remote but she learns much, much better by doing with oversight. I don't imagine she would do well in a setting that was 100% WFH.

Conversely, I would hate to have to train someone remotely. Sorry, some things just don't translate over Teams and videos is a ****ty way to try to teach someone a profession.

Highly dependent on the profession. For us, it's actually ideal to do it remotely. In person, training would be in a conference room with a projector. Remote, it's just done via Teams with screen sharing.
Yea I get that, 100% dependent on the job but while you're on one side of the spectrum, there are others, myself included, who are on the other side. There's also a happy medium in between, it's not one size fits all. Certainly not enough to get sickened over.
 
But I dont think it's a hot take to be pissed if a junior employee came onboard with expectations of in office collaboration when A) it has been unnecessary to this point and B) he applied for a job that was advertised as fully remote.

@thecatch would have to clarify whether the job he was hiring for was advertised, up front, as "fully remote". I had assumed not, but I don't know that for sure.

As for the new hire's expectations, that would be up the boss/hiring manager to know the office and the culture so as to manage those expectations. To be able to advise the new hire on what was reasonable and workable. Say most telework five days -- but some staff are in two or three days a week. Is that "some staff" enough? Can it work?

The new hire should not dictate to the company -- total agreement there.
 
But I dont think it's a hot take to be pissed if a junior employee came onboard with expectations of in office collaboration when A) it has been unnecessary to this point and B) he applied for a job that was advertised as fully remote.

@thecatch would have to clarify whether the job he was hiring for was advertised, up front, as "fully remote". I had assumed not, but I don't know that for sure.

As for the new hire's expectations, that would be up the boss/hiring manager to know the office and the culture so as to manage those expectations. To be able to advise the new hire on what was reasonable and workable. Say most telework five days -- but some staff are in two or three days a week. Is that "some staff" enough? Can it work?

The new hire should not dictate to the company -- total agreement there.

Again, we’re making a lot of assumptions here, but it seems like the candidate ultimately passed on the job not because the position he applied for was fully remote, but because most of the other members of the work unit are fully remote. The status of co-worker work arrangements may very well be something that is not stated up front in a job posting, but rather is learned during the interview/recruiting process.
 
But I dont think it's a hot take to be pissed if a junior employee came onboard with expectations of in office collaboration when A) it has been unnecessary to this point and B) he applied for a job that was advertised as fully remote.

@thecatch would have to clarify whether the job he was hiring for was advertised, up front, as "fully remote". I had assumed not, but I don't know that for sure.

As for the new hire's expectations, that would be up the boss/hiring manager to know the office and the culture so as to manage those expectations. To be able to advise the new hire on what was reasonable and workable. Say most telework five days -- but some staff are in two or three days a week. Is that "some staff" enough? Can it work?

The new hire should not dictate to the company -- total agreement there.

Again, we’re making a lot of assumptions here, but it seems like the candidate ultimately passed on the job not because the position he applied for was fully remote, but because most of the other members of the work unit are fully remote. The status of co-worker work arrangements may very well be something that is not stated up front in a job posting, but rather is learned during the interview/recruiting process.

That's a good point. Job listings are just now starting to be consistent about the role itself, but an idea of what others in the role are doing should be added as well.

And yes, I did make assumptions I maybe shouldnt have. But I've seen enough Gen Z/younger kids come onboard thinking they run the place to make me a bit jaded here.
 
The non-profit we work with did away with physical offices for probably half the staff
Even if you want to show up everyday there really isn't an office, desk and chair to show up and work at.
When my wife and some of her team want to meet in person, they have to share and cram into just a couple work spaces since the work areas were downsized
4 days a week/Home
1 day a week/Brightline Train down to Miami

-The push by Fed Gov't to make folks report back has had some impact on the mindset of our employees.
Not everyone likes working from the home office or at least resents those that WFH. In a memo the other day, some of us were referred to as "infrequent visitors"
The lady who wrote that is not very well liked as you can imagine
I asked for clarification on the intention and then expanded their snarky comment to the "infrequent thinkers" and "infrequent grammatical writers" we put up with
 
I'll assume the emails have either a request or action that you need to take?
Opinion solicitation / data analytic requests - they're generally not messages that can be prepared in under a minute. For the complex ones, I try to combine them with a brief phone call (to avoid sending a wall of text), and find those are more productive when I'm at my 2 monitor setup (whether office or home). When I'm not at either one for more than a day, especially when we have evening commitments, that's what results in longer delays, and for those there generally isn't another resource they can go to - it's me. The job security is great!
 
I'll assume the emails have either a request or action that you need to take?
Opinion solicitation / data analytic requests - they're generally not messages that can be prepared in under a minute. For the complex ones, I try to combine them with a brief phone call (to avoid sending a wall of text), and find those are more productive when I'm at my 2 monitor setup (whether office or home). When I'm not at either one for more than a day, especially when we have evening commitments, that's what results in longer delays, and for those there generally isn't another resource they can go to - it's me. The job security is great!
With that information, if it were me, I'd at least acknowledge the request quickly with a time estimate of the fulfilled ask. However, if no one is complaining or it hasn't come up, then I wouldn't worry about adjusting. :)
 
Just lost out on one of the best young job candidates I've had in years because the person wanted in-office collaboration and most of the people in the unit we were hiring for telework full time. :kicksrock:

Wait -- I missed this the first time around. Are there sufficient (at least partially) in-office people outside of the teleworking majority for this new hire to potentially have gotten some collaboration?
In his market, there are some in-office workers but frankly not enough relevant ones to really provide him with the environment he was looking for. In other locations, there would have been.

I posted this anecdote because it seems like there are people in this thread who can't believe there are people that want to work in offices, and there definitely are, in my experience.
 
But I dont think it's a hot take to be pissed if a junior employee came onboard with expectations of in office collaboration when A) it has been unnecessary to this point and B) he applied for a job that was advertised as fully remote.

@thecatch would have to clarify whether the job he was hiring for was advertised, up front, as "fully remote". I had assumed not, but I don't know that for sure.

As for the new hire's expectations, that would be up the boss/hiring manager to know the office and the culture so as to manage those expectations. To be able to advise the new hire on what was reasonable and workable. Say most telework five days -- but some staff are in two or three days a week. Is that "some staff" enough? Can it work?

The new hire should not dictate to the company -- total agreement there.
There was nothing in my post that said anything about it being a remote-only position or that the candidate was demanding any changes. Kind of a bizarre tangent here.
 
Welp, it happened. We're moving to a 3-day in-office deal. I knew it was inevitable, but was at least hoping they'd make that third day "flexible" (meaning either Monday, Wednesday or less likely, Friday). But they've mandated Mondays. Already talked to the boss and there's no wiggle room. This presents a bit of a challenge since my wife works at Starbucks on Mondays (along with Tuesdays) so my kids will be fending for themselves both Monday and Tuesday afternoons now. And my daughter's Monday volleyball practice? Nope, can't go to that now either.

My two contemporaries are both fully remote. They want me to have more "face time" with our assistant/analyst since we are both local. Doesn't seem exactly fair but I have no recourse.
 
And my daughter's Monday volleyball practice? Nope, can't go to that now either.
It’s practice, who cares. When did parents watching practices become a thing?
When parents wanted to be involved with their kids lives? Who cares? Lmao there’s no way you have kids.
We talking bout practice? PRACTICE?!

Sounds like a helicopter parent to me.
Helicopter parent, ok man.
 
Have we really reached the point in our regularly scheduled programming where we MMQB parents who actually like to be present in their children’s lives?

:shrug:
God forbid. I spent an hour at the park watching my son's flag football practice, too. Was kinda nice being in the fresh air and watching the kids get better at something that brings them joy.
YOU MONSTER!!!
 
And my daughter's Monday volleyball practice? Nope, can't go to that now either.
It’s practice, who cares. When did parents watching practices become a thing?
When parents wanted to be involved with their kids lives? Who cares? Lmao there’s no way you have kids.
We talking bout practice? PRACTICE?!

Sounds like a helicopter parent to me.
Can’t tell if this is shtick but if not you sound insane.
 
Can’t tell if this is shtick but if not you sound insane.
When I was growing up parents weren’t allowed to be at practices. And for good reason…coaches don’t want to deal with parents putting in their two cents. Let your kids be sometimes and grow without parents hovering. Feeling like you’re a bad parent if you don’t watch them practice is ridiculous.
 
Can’t tell if this is shtick but if not you sound insane.
When I was growing up parents weren’t allowed to be at practices. And for good reason…coaches don’t want to deal with parents putting in their two cents. Let your kids be sometimes and grow without parents hovering. Feeling like you’re a bad parent if you don’t watch them practice is ridiculous.
I coach my son’s baseball team and most (all?) the parents just sit there in the stands and play on their phones and then when their son rotates to come hit they watch. Sometimes when they pitch they walk over and watch. On what planet is that a bad thing? I’ve never had one parent put in their opinion and this is my fifth season doing this.
 
Can’t tell if this is shtick but if not you sound insane.
When I was growing up parents weren’t allowed to be at practices. And for good reason…coaches don’t want to deal with parents putting in their two cents. Let your kids be sometimes and grow without parents hovering. Feeling like you’re a bad parent if you don’t watch them practice is ridiculous.
I coach my son’s baseball team and most (all?) the parents just sit there in the stands and play on their phones and then when their son rotates to come hit they watch. Sometimes when they pitch they walk over and watch. On what planet is that a bad thing? I’ve never had one parent put in their opinion and this is my fifth season doing this.
Maybe what offdee is referring to IS the sentiment these days. Of the 10 girls on my daughter's volleyball team, I'm the only parent that is typically at all practices I can make (Thursday practices are tough because of work commitments). Of the 10+ kids on my son's football team, same thing... of course it's just one practice a week so it's far easier to make those.

That said, I let the coaches coach (I've coached youth basketball on three separate occasions, I know how it can be).

And when I was growing up, my dad took me to soccer practices and would stay. High school basketball, though, was just after school so no ride needed so no parents would be there.

I highly doubt if/when either of my kids play HS sports that I will attend THOSE practices. My kids are in 8th and 6th so it's a little different at that age.
 
Can’t tell if this is shtick but if not you sound insane.
When I was growing up parents weren’t allowed to be at practices. And for good reason…coaches don’t want to deal with parents putting in their two cents. Let your kids be sometimes and grow without parents hovering. Feeling like you’re a bad parent if you don’t watch them practice is ridiculous.
I coach my son’s baseball team and most (all?) the parents just sit there in the stands and play on their phones and then when their son rotates to come hit they watch. Sometimes when they pitch they walk over and watch. On what planet is that a bad thing? I’ve never had one parent put in their opinion and this is my fifth season doing this.
Maybe what offdee is referring to IS the sentiment these days. Of the 10 girls on my daughter's volleyball team, I'm the only parent that is typically at all practices I can make (Thursday practices are tough because of work commitments). Of the 10+ kids on my son's football team, same thing... of course it's just one practice a week so it's far easier to make those.

That said, I let the coaches coach (I've coached youth basketball on three separate occasions, I know how it can be).

And when I was growing up, my dad took me to soccer practices and would stay. High school basketball, though, was just after school so no ride needed so no parents would be there.

I highly doubt if/when either of my kids play HS sports that I will attend THOSE practices. My kids are in 8th and 6th so it's a little different at that age.
Younger kids I can understand. But once they are in 8th grade and up no kids (or coaches) want their parents to be sitting there. Let them grow up and be with their friends and coaches at that point.
 
Can’t tell if this is shtick but if not you sound insane.
When I was growing up parents weren’t allowed to be at practices. And for good reason…coaches don’t want to deal with parents putting in their two cents. Let your kids be sometimes and grow without parents hovering. Feeling like you’re a bad parent if you don’t watch them practice is ridiculous.
I coach my son’s baseball team and most (all?) the parents just sit there in the stands and play on their phones and then when their son rotates to come hit they watch. Sometimes when they pitch they walk over and watch. On what planet is that a bad thing? I’ve never had one parent put in their opinion and this is my fifth season doing this.
Maybe what offdee is referring to IS the sentiment these days. Of the 10 girls on my daughter's volleyball team, I'm the only parent that is typically at all practices I can make (Thursday practices are tough because of work commitments). Of the 10+ kids on my son's football team, same thing... of course it's just one practice a week so it's far easier to make those.

That said, I let the coaches coach (I've coached youth basketball on three separate occasions, I know how it can be).

And when I was growing up, my dad took me to soccer practices and would stay. High school basketball, though, was just after school so no ride needed so no parents would be there.

I highly doubt if/when either of my kids play HS sports that I will attend THOSE practices. My kids are in 8th and 6th so it's a little different at that age.
Younger kids I can understand. But once they are in 8th grade and up no kids (or coaches) want their parents to be sitting there. Let them grow up and be with their friends and coaches at that point.
Lovely getting parenting advice from a childless monster
 
Can’t tell if this is shtick but if not you sound insane.
When I was growing up parents weren’t allowed to be at practices. And for good reason…coaches don’t want to deal with parents putting in their two cents. Let your kids be sometimes and grow without parents hovering. Feeling like you’re a bad parent if you don’t watch them practice is ridiculous.
I coach my son’s baseball team and most (all?) the parents just sit there in the stands and play on their phones and then when their son rotates to come hit they watch. Sometimes when they pitch they walk over and watch. On what planet is that a bad thing? I’ve never had one parent put in their opinion and this is my fifth season doing this.
Maybe what offdee is referring to IS the sentiment these days. Of the 10 girls on my daughter's volleyball team, I'm the only parent that is typically at all practices I can make (Thursday practices are tough because of work commitments). Of the 10+ kids on my son's football team, same thing... of course it's just one practice a week so it's far easier to make those.

That said, I let the coaches coach (I've coached youth basketball on three separate occasions, I know how it can be).

And when I was growing up, my dad took me to soccer practices and would stay. High school basketball, though, was just after school so no ride needed so no parents would be there.

I highly doubt if/when either of my kids play HS sports that I will attend THOSE practices. My kids are in 8th and 6th so it's a little different at that age.
Younger kids I can understand. But once they are in 8th grade and up no kids (or coaches) want their parents to be sitting there. Let them grow up and be with their friends and coaches at that point.
OK I'm in partial agreement here. I'd say HS and up. I paid good money for my 8th grader to be in this volleyball club; I want to make sure it's actually worth it, and I like tracking her progress. AND she likes having me send her short videos of her playing. :shrug:
 
Lovely getting parenting advice from a childless monster
I was with a woman for 7 yrs that had 3 kids....we all lived together for 4 yrs. I met the kids when they were 2, 5 and 7. When we broke up they were 9, 12 and 14. I was a great father figure the entire time and they are for sure better people because I was in their life. And vice versa. But, appreciate the thoughts.
 
Lol ...even when I stopped coaching I'd go view practice at a far distance just to enjoy myself and see what they are working on. Even when she was 18. This was travel ball not HS though. We'd have chats about what the drills were etc ....

You can actually watch practice without being overbearing. I didn't go to every one but it's not all that crazy. No I don't go to her college practices ;)
 
Can’t tell if this is shtick but if not you sound insane.
When I was growing up parents weren’t allowed to be at practices. And for good reason…coaches don’t want to deal with parents putting in their two cents. Let your kids be sometimes and grow without parents hovering. Feeling like you’re a bad parent if you don’t watch them practice is ridiculous.
I coach my son’s baseball team and most (all?) the parents just sit there in the stands and play on their phones and then when their son rotates to come hit they watch. Sometimes when they pitch they walk over and watch. On what planet is that a bad thing? I’ve never had one parent put in their opinion and this is my fifth season doing this.
Maybe what offdee is referring to IS the sentiment these days. Of the 10 girls on my daughter's volleyball team, I'm the only parent that is typically at all practices I can make (Thursday practices are tough because of work commitments). Of the 10+ kids on my son's football team, same thing... of course it's just one practice a week so it's far easier to make those.

That said, I let the coaches coach (I've coached youth basketball on three separate occasions, I know how it can be).

And when I was growing up, my dad took me to soccer practices and would stay. High school basketball, though, was just after school so no ride needed so no parents would be there.

I highly doubt if/when either of my kids play HS sports that I will attend THOSE practices. My kids are in 8th and 6th so it's a little different at that age.
Younger kids I can understand. But once they are in 8th grade and up no kids (or coaches) want their parents to be sitting there. Let them grow up and be with their friends and coaches at that point.
OK I'm in partial agreement here. I'd say HS and up. I paid good money for my 8th grader to be in this volleyball club; I want to make sure it's actually worth it, and I like tracking her progress. AND she likes having me send her short videos of her playing. :shrug:
Everybody’s mileage may vary but I don’t think there are many people who get older in life and think “you know, my dad was too involved in my life.” Nobody is saying smother your kids but it’s also healthy to show an interest in their interests.
 
I can count on 5 hands how many baseball practices I missed of either of my son's until they got to college. Love just sitting there with the dogs enjoying the outdoors (if it's cold I'll go in the press box).

I've taught both my DIL, and my youngest that we've got to be there for batting practice before a game (so 2 hours before), because you never know when it will be the last one.

Both boys would wonder what was wrong if I was not there and call/text to see if I was ok.

They love that I care that much, and I love that they love the game.

In 2 years I'll attend my last game/batting practice of my youngest in college, but I'll have a grandson (2 years old( to look forward to.

God bless you parents that are actively involved in your kids lives. I'm guessing that those kids get in trouble a tad bit less, and are better prepared for the future. But what do I know.
 
I think the point here is that someone is unable to spend the time they want with their children due to seemingly unnecessary RTO policies. Too much emphasis in our culture of living to please your company rather than living to please yourself.
Yeah, I think that's what started this whole tangent in the first place... my company is making us come in on Mondays starting in June which means I won't be able to take my oldest to volleyball practice those nights. That said, the season will be wrapping up right around then so will only really affect us when/if we do club volleyball again.

I guess the silver lining is that I can go back to watching MNF at my local dive after work on Mondays. :shrug:
 
I think the point here is that someone is unable to spend the time they want with their children due to seemingly unnecessary RTO policies. Too much emphasis in our culture of living to please your company rather than living to please yourself.

This. I think remote work promotes work life balance and allows employees the flexibility to participate in personal activities (e.g., picking up kids from school, attending practice) during the workday. And by promoting flexibility and work life balance, companies can be more competitive in the labor market to attract talent, as well as have a happier, more well-adjusted workforce. I think these are among the best benefits for a company from allowing remote work (in addition to lowering overhead). As an executive, I’m far more convinced by these arguments than I am by people asserting that they are far more productive at home during the regular workday because there are fewer distractions. While there are obvious examples where that is certainly true (and I’m certainly not calling anyone in this thread a liar), for many who make that argument, I think it’s a crock. Nirad’s complaint about returning to the office is about not being able to help with child care on Monday and Tuesday afternoons and having to miss his child’s volleyball practice. It’s not about doing less work for his company during traditional work hours. And that’s perfectly fine. As a manager, I want my team to be happy and have a healthy work life balance.
 
I can count on 5 hands how many baseball practices I missed of either of my son's until they got to college. Love just sitting there with the dogs enjoying the outdoors (if it's cold I'll go in the press box).

I've taught both my DIL, and my youngest that we've got to be there for batting practice before a game (so 2 hours before), because you never know when it will be the last one.

Both boys would wonder what was wrong if I was not there and call/text to see if I was ok.

They love that I care that much, and I love that they love the game.

In 2 years I'll attend my last game/batting practice of my youngest in college, but I'll have a grandson (2 years old( to look forward to.

God bless you parents that are actively involved in your kids lives. I'm guessing that those kids get in trouble a tad bit less, and are better prepared for the future. But what do I know.
Salute to you sir.
 
If practice is a 90 mins but the commute is 30 mins each way, why would you go home? Sure you could do grocery shopping or another errand, but sometimes you just wanna get some sunlight and socialize with the other parents. He'll, I've even gone to a bar to get a drink during practice, but most of the time i hang out.
 
If practice is a 90 mins but the commute is 30 mins each way, why would you go home? Sure you could do grocery shopping or another errand, but sometimes you just wanna get some sunlight and socialize with the other parents. He'll, I've even gone to a bar to get a drink during practice, but most of the time i hang out.
Absolutely agree. My daughter's Saturday practices are 2 hours long and it's about 15 minutes away. I typically go get myself breakfast and then watch about an hour of practice. Monday practices are about 20 minutes away and are also 2 hours, so JUST far enough away where I prefer to just sit and watch.

For the boy, it's at a nearby park so I just break out the camping chair and screw around on my phone.
 
Can’t tell if this is shtick but if not you sound insane.
When I was growing up parents weren’t allowed to be at practices. And for good reason…coaches don’t want to deal with parents putting in their two cents. Let your kids be sometimes and grow without parents hovering. Feeling like you’re a bad parent if you don’t watch them practice is ridiculous.
I coach my son’s baseball team and most (all?) the parents just sit there in the stands and play on their phones and then when their son rotates to come hit they watch. Sometimes when they pitch they walk over and watch. On what planet is that a bad thing? I’ve never had one parent put in their opinion and this is my fifth season doing this.

Winning alot eh?
 
Can’t tell if this is shtick but if not you sound insane.
When I was growing up parents weren’t allowed to be at practices. And for good reason…coaches don’t want to deal with parents putting in their two cents. Let your kids be sometimes and grow without parents hovering. Feeling like you’re a bad parent if you don’t watch them practice is ridiculous.
I coach my son’s baseball team and most (all?) the parents just sit there in the stands and play on their phones and then when their son rotates to come hit they watch. Sometimes when they pitch they walk over and watch. On what planet is that a bad thing? I’ve never had one parent put in their opinion and this is my fifth season doing this.

Winning alot eh?
Dominated the stupid *** Red Sox the other day.
 
Can we just all agree that it's ok for a parent to be at practice, but it's also ok if they're not there, because it's just practice? When I volunteered coached rec leagues, I didn't care if parents stayed and watched, as long as they kept their mouth shut. I think a lot of kids felt more at ease when their parents were not there.
 
Can we just all agree that it's ok for a parent to be at practice, but it's also ok if they're not there, because it's just practice? When I volunteered coached rec leagues, I didn't care if parents stayed and watched, as long as they kept their mouth shut. I think a lot of kids felt more at ease when their parents were not there.
I don't think anyone has a problem if you aren't at practice.....it was the OMG LOL why would you ever go to practice you over bearing parents!@!#!$!$
 
Can we just all agree that it's ok for a parent to be at practice, but it's also ok if they're not there, because it's just practice? When I volunteered coached rec leagues, I didn't care if parents stayed and watched, as long as they kept their mouth shut. I think a lot of kids felt more at ease when their parents were not there.
I don't think anyone has a problem if you aren't at practice.....it was the OMG LOL why would you ever go to practice you over bearing parents!@!#!$!$
One person made a stupid comment that no one else (correctly) agreed with - let's move on
 

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