Getcha passports ready - the middle-aged dummies are going to the British Isles! Top 31 song countdown. (3 Viewers)

[jwb]

Krista will be proud of me - I wanted to include a Mary Poppins - Julie Andrews song but they were all written by the Sherman Brothers so they aren’t eligible. Right?

Songwriters don’t matter. It’s the performers.

Thanks! If we have no clue who played this instruments then do we get to assume they are good? I’ll try to find out.

If it’s a solo artist (Julie Andrews) it doesn’t matter who the session musicians were.

Yup - it would be impossible to dig much deeper.

That said I did self police myself in the last draft by not including "Love the One Your With" - it's a Stephen Stills solo song but Graham Nash is pretty obviously all over it. It didn't quite feel right to me although it would have passed the criteria.

 

[jwb]

Yes - various, check your lineups

Most of their “classics” are eligible.

guitarist and backing vocalist Trevor Rabin was South African - 90215 and Talk albums not eligible.

Some of the later live albums may not be eligible.

YES is one of those bands that's had so many members that for awhile they had two competing touring bands, and both were "legit". One had Steve Howe, Alan White, Geoff Downs, etc, and got a YES tribute band singer to handle vocals. The other had Jon Anderson, Rick Wakeman and Rabin. I saw both twice (and both were great) - the biggest difference was the Anderson/Rabin version played stuff off 90125 besides the older stuff.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

If there's room, I'm in otherwise I'll peanut gallery.

Stewart Copeland is half Scottish. The American half taints him that much? (Just kidding @krista4 ...your game, your rules!)

 

[Sullie]

IN

I saw Yes a few times myself, Yes (Big Generator tour), Union tour (mash up of original and 90125 members) and then there was ABWH (Anderson, Buford, Wakeman, Howe) because there was some fighting going on over the Yes name, etc. I once met Alan White (drummer) and you could not possibly ask for a nicer, more gracious, patient and humble guy. He gave a drum clinic, in a very small town in NE Ohio. So, there couldn't have been more than 100 people there, he spent like 3 hours with us and it was pretty amazing. He introduced himself then he played for like 45 minutes then he stopped and told us some stories and answered questions for about 20-30 minutes (he told a story about being John Lennon's drummer for a bit there) and then he played for another 30 minutes or so. After all that, he got cleaned up, changed clothes and took pictures and signed autographs for what must have been at least an hour. All of this was free by the way, it was a pretty memorable and incredible experience, this was around the late 80's because I think I had him autograph my 90125 and Big Generator albums. . . which my Mom threw out when I went back to college. . . thanks Mom!

• Chris Squire – bass guitar, vocals (1968–1981, 1983–2004, 2008–2015; his death)
• Jon Anderson – lead and backing vocals, guitar, percussion (1968–1980, 1983–1988, 1990–2004, 2008)
• Bill Bruford – drums, percussion (1968, 1968–1972, 1990–1992)
• Tony Kaye – keyboards (1968–1971, 1983, 1983–1995, touring guest 2018–2019)
• Peter Banks – guitar, backing vocals (1968–1970; died 2013)
• Tony O'Reilly – drums (1968)
• Rick Wakeman – keyboards (1971–1974, 1976–1980, 1990–1992, 1995–1997, 2002–2004)
• Alan White – drums, percussion, piano, vocals (1972–1981, 1983–2004, 2008–2022; his death)
• Patrick Moraz – keyboards (1974–1976)
• Trevor Horn – lead vocals, bass guitar (1980–1981, 2018)
• Trevor Rabin – guitars, lead and backing vocals, keyboards (1983–1995)
• Eddie Jobson – keyboards (1983)
• Igor Khoroshev – keyboards (1997–2000)
• Benoît David – lead vocals, acoustic guitar (2008–2012)
• Oliver Wakeman – keyboards (2008–2011)

 

[Doug B]

Krista will be proud of me - I wanted to include a Mary Poppins - Julie Andrews song but they were all written by the Sherman Brothers so they aren’t eligible. Right?

Songwriters don’t matter. It’s the performers.

Thanks! If we have no clue who played this instruments then do we get to assume they are good? I’ll try to find out.

If it’s a solo artist (Julie Andrews) it doesn’t matter who the session musicians were.

I didn’t think session musicians mattered at all — if they aren’t official band members, they don’t count towards eligibility.

So for instance, pretend Foreigner was 100% American. If someone picked “Waiting For.A Girl Like You”, the song wouldn’t be ineligible just because Brit Thomas Dolby was the session keyboardist on the album 4 and specifically on that track.

 

[Mt. Man]

In
There's definitely more than enough time. Hopefully enough motivation for me to get most to all of this done between Christmas and New Years. But feel free to pester me endlessly if (when?) things are dragging and the deadline is nearing.
I'm definitely going one song per artist. But that's just me.

 

[KarmaPolice]

If there's room, I'm in otherwise I'll peanut gallery.

Stewart Copeland is half Scottish. The American half taints him that much? (Just kidding @krista4 ...your game, your rules!)

I think it's all about birthplace, not heritage.

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

IN!!

Wow - this went quickly! I was probably the one with the bad formatting ..."band, the" - apologies.

Thanks for doing this - you make it great!

 

[jwb]

Just in thinking about artists and songs I like.... While America is all kinds of star-spangled awesome, I can see I'm going to like my UK list better.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

If there's room, I'm in otherwise I'll peanut gallery.

Stewart Copeland is half Scottish. The American half taints him that much? (Just kidding @krista4 ...your game, your rules!)

I think it's all about birthplace, not heritage.

The one time it doesn't work out to be an anchor baby.
(His dad helped found the OSS/FBI? That might be my favorite rock factoid ever.)

 

[Andy Dufresne]

So do they have to be born in England/U.K./However it works - or anywhere in the Empire? Born in India or Australia and they're out?

 

[krista4]

No limits on participants, so happy to welcome @Andy Dufresne and @Mt. Man this time!

I'm going to catch up on all the eligible/ineligible stuff, but first I have to finish my picks for the college bowl season tourney that my family does every year and I somehow forgot to turn in yesterday. My brother is letting me in but I lose my 42 and 41 pointers - good chance I'd have lost them anyway, since I suck at this and have only won once. At least the only stakes are a very ugly trophy.

Anyway, thank you all for so much research. And I'm joking about penalizing people who don't check the list in the third post. It was just a bit crazy how many people didn't last time, Luckily I currently seem to have the memory capacity of a goldfish, so I don't know who the offenders were.

 

[krista4]

So do they have to be born in England/U.K./However it works - or anywhere in the Empire? Born in India or Australia and they're out?

Thanks for asking as I forgot to put that part in the first post. We toyed in the prior thread with allowing people born in colonies but ultimately decided against it. Colonies and protectorates are out. We'll cover those folks in a future "catch-all" countdown.

 

[AAABatteries]

Wholly ineligible:

Plastic Ono Band (various)

My Link

 

[AAABatteries]

@krista4 - sorry for not remembering but as we do vetting if we find something to include in the ineligible list how do you want us to send it? Post it?

Most of Fleetwood Mac is out.

 

[DrIanMalcolm]

Yes - various, check your lineups

Most of their “classics” are eligible.

guitarist and backing vocalist Trevor Rabin was South African - 90215 and Talk albums not eligible.

Some of the later live albums may not be eligible.

YES is one of those bands that's had so many members that for awhile they had two competing touring bands, and both were "legit". One had Steve Howe, Alan White, Geoff Downs, etc, and got a YES tribute band singer to handle vocals. The other had Jon Anderson, Rick Wakeman and Rabin. I saw both twice (and both were great) - the biggest difference was the Anderson/Rabin version played stuff off 90125 besides the older stuff.

They're also an easy exclusion.

Since we haven't started yet, I'm throwing some snark.

 

[krista4]

@krista4 - sorry for not remembering but as we do vetting if we find something to include in the ineligible list how do you want us to send it? Post it?

Most of Fleetwood Mac is out.

Either is fine. If you post it here, everyone will see it immediately and I will pick it up for the third post. If you send to me, then I'll post it here and also put it in the third post, so I guess just posting it here would save a step.

 

[krista4]

I may sit this one out.

 

[Manster]

If there's room, I'm in otherwise I'll peanut gallery.

Stewart Copeland is half Scottish. The American half taints him that much? (Just kidding @krista4 ...your game, your rules!)

If I'm allowed in, you're golden

 

[krista4]

As I mentioned me and my “idiots” are doing this same exercise in our text chain starting January 1. I can submit my list to krista for this - but in order not to hold anything up for us - on January 16th I can post their corresponding songs they chose in this thread as we go along - they just won’t be counted in the overall statistics for the group but we give Chap a forum to redeem himself and get more music in here.

If we'd like to include them fully, we can do a work-around since you'll be 15 days ahead of us. Just let me know, and if they are "in," we can discuss.

 

[krista4]

(I think) I've updated the participants list in post #4. If I've missed you, let me know. If you're in here posting but have not specifically posted that you are in, you're not on the list yet. I make no assumptions!

Now to try to sort through the latest eligible/ineligible stuff.

 

[krista4]

Supertramp – releases with Bob Siebenberg (US)

Looking into this further, wiki says he played on every album so they may need to move to totally ineligible- some one can correct me if I’m wrong.

Here to correct you: Wiki shows him as joining in 1973 and does not list him as "personnel" on their first two albums.

 

[Northern Voice]

Will try to do this one

 

[krista4]

Dire Straits – releases with Hal Lindes or Jack Sonni (both US)

Songs from these albums are eligible

• Dire Straits (1978)
• Communiqué (1979)
• Making Movies (1980)
• Brothers in Arms (1985)
• On Every Street (1991)

Songs from these albums are not eligible

• Love over Gold (1982)

Jack Sonni was never an official member - he’s listed as “an additional musician” on Brothers In Arms.
Hal Lindes was an official member on Love Over Gold. He was also great on Barney Miller.

I couldn't care less since I'm not a fan of the band, but Jack Sonni is listed as a member on Wiki. However, as you pointed out, he's not listed on the page for Brothers in Arms. On the other hand, unfortunately Omar Hakim, born in New York, is listed as a member on that album, so it is still ineligible. I'll update post #3 just to reference the two ineligible albums.

ETA: Loved the Barney Miller reference.

 

[Doug B]

On the other hand, unfortunately Omar Hakim, born in New York, is listed as a member, so that album is still ineligible.

I’d probably need to look at the album’s liner notes to lock it down … but Omar Hakim was definitely a session player on Brothers In Arms. Hakim was hired to re-record Terry Williams’ drum parts, which a month into the sessions were considered unsuitable. Hakim flew in, recorded the drum parts in two days, and left. He never recorded or toured with Dire Straits again.

All that said: If the liner notes are the final say in the matter … I don’t know how Hakim is actually credited on the album.

 

[krista4]

The Cult
- post 1989, drummers Matt Sorum and then Scott Garett were both Americans (which still leaves their bigger songs eligible)

There are other Americans in there, too, but none prior to 1989. But then people go in and out so that some post-1989 releases are eligible, such as Ceremony. I'll try to clarify by album in the third post.

ETA: Looks like Ceremony is the only post-1989 eligible. Clarified in third post.

 

[krista4]

On the other hand, unfortunately Omar Hakim, born in New York, is listed as a member, so that album is still ineligible.

I’d probably need to look at the album’s liner notes to lock it down … but Omar Hakim was definitely a session player on Brothers In Arms. Hakim was hired to re-record Terry Williams’ drum parts, which a month into the sessions were considered unsuitable. Hakim flew in, recorded the drum parts in two days, and left. He never recorded or toured with Dire Straits again.

All that said: If the liner notes are the final say in the matter … I don’t know how Hakim is actually credited on the album.

Wiki says that the data is pulled from the liner notes, and it lists him as a member. If anyone wants to look at the actual album and show he shouldn't be, have at it and I'll update if necessary. Until then, not eligible.

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

Is there a name for Mrs. Eephus that is better than "Mrs. Eephus"?

Patron Saint of Patience?

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

I may sit this one out.

On a completely unrelated note: is there a British Isles version of Billy Joel?

Elton John?

reaction.

 

[Zegras11]

In.


I will have a Beatles at #1.















I will have a Beatles at #31.















Suck it shuke

I'm not on the in list.

 

[krista4]

I didn’t think session musicians mattered at all — if they aren’t official band members, they don’t count towards eligibility.

Correct.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Supertramp – releases with Bob Siebenberg (US)

Looking into this further, wiki says he played on every album so they may need to move to totally ineligible- some one can correct me if I’m wrong.

Here to correct you: Wiki shows him as joining in 1973 and does not list him as "personnel" on their first two albums.

Thanks. That does eliminate their biggest albums but maybe not some ones favorites.

 

[krista4]

I'm not on the in list.

Sorry, fixed!

 

[Eephus]

I’d probably need to look at the album’s liner notes to lock it down … but Omar Hakim was definitely a session player on Brothers In Arms. Hakim was hired to re-record Terry Williams’ drum parts, which a month into the sessions were considered unsuitable. Hakim flew in, recorded the drum parts in two days, and left. He never recorded or toured with Dire Straits again.

All that said: If the liner notes are the final say in the matter … I don’t know how Hakim is actually credited on the album

Hakim and Williams are two fantastic drummers but very different in style. I love Williams' little drum fills with Rockpile.

Page 7 of the CD booklet lists both drummers as members of the group.

CD Album: Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms (2005)

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms - Vertigo - Europe

www.45worlds.com

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Dire Straits – releases with Hal Lindes or Jack Sonni (both US)

Songs from these albums are eligible

• Dire Straits (1978)
• Communiqué (1979)
• Making Movies (1980)
• Brothers in Arms (1985)
• On Every Street (1991)

Songs from these albums are not eligible

• Love over Gold (1982)

Jack Sonni was never an official member - he’s listed as “an additional musician” on Brothers In Arms.
Hal Lindes was an official member on Love Over Gold. He was also great on Barney Miller.

I couldn't care less since I'm not a fan of the band, but Jack Sonni is listed as a member on Wiki. However, as you pointed out, he's not listed on the page for Brothers in Arms. On the other hand, unfortunately Omar Hakim, born in New York, is listed as a member on that album, so it is still ineligible. I'll update post #3 just to reference the two ineligible albums.

ETA: Loved the Barney Miller reference.

It seems that for the majority of bands that get eliminated for having an American it’s due to the drummer.

 

[New Binky the Doormat]

@krista4 - sorry for not remembering but as we do vetting if we find something to include in the ineligible list how do you want us to send it? Post it?

Most of Fleetwood Mac is out.

oh well ...

 

[zamboni]

I envision a lot of controversy when artists from the 1770s are selected.

 

[Eephus]

Jerry Dammers of the Specials should be eligible under the Nick Drake rule. Dammers parents were British expats in India; his father was an Anglican dean whatever that is.

Most of the Specials' catalog is still ineligible but the Special AKA album should be OK.

Horace Dammers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Eephus]

I envision a lot of controversy when artists from the 1770s are selected.

G.F. Handel was born in Germany

 

[krista4]

@krista4 - sorry for not remembering but as we do vetting if we find something to include in the ineligible list how do you want us to send it? Post it?

Most of Fleetwood Mac is out.

I guess there are early iterations of Fleetwood Mac that are in. I'll add them to the partially ineligible and list the "offending" members for cross-reference.

 

[zamboni]

I envision a lot of controversy when artists from the 1770s are selected.

G.F. Handel was born in Germany

hallelujah

 

[krista4]

Jerry Dammers of the Specials should be eligible under the Nick Drake rule. Dammers parents were British expats in India; his father was an Anglican dean whatever that is.

Most of the Specials' catalog is still ineligible but the Special AKA album should be OK.

Horace Dammers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks for that update on Dammers! I'll correct the third post. Does anyone really want to take Stan Campbell? I guess it's open to those who do!

 

[Don Quixote]

I envision a lot of controversy when artists from the 1770s are selected.

G.F. Handel was born in Germany

hallelujah

It is performer rather than composer anyway. But if someone has a 1700s record of Handel performing, they should share that with the world.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Make it one song per artist you cowards.

I believe the word you're looking for is cunts

I can't believe that didn't get language-filtered.

And yet we still can’t properly acknowledge **** Vermeil.

 

[krista4]

It seems that for the majority of bands that get eliminated for having an American it’s due to the drummer.

Freakin' drummers messing it up for everyone else.

 

[krista4]

The Power Station has been added to the wholly ineligible list. Drummer (there we go again!) Tony Thompson was American.

 

[zamboni]

The Power Station has been added to the wholly ineligible list. Drummer (there we go again!) Tony Thompson was American.

They’re not chic enough anyway.

 

[krista4]

Fans of mid-period Duran Duran beware - beginning in 1989, releases with Warren Cucurullo or Sterling Campbell are ineligible. (Note that they were both session musicians with the band before becoming full members in 1989, so the pre-1989 releases are OK.)

 

[krista4]

In case anyone comes across Pete de Freitas from Echo and the Bunnymen and worries because he was born in Trinidad and Tobago, please note they are still eligible because he was born to English parents. Echo is on the A-OK list. Also, his Wiki page contains one of my favorite lines ever: "He joined the Bunnymen in 1979, replacing a drum machine."

 

[landrys hat]

If a band uses a drum machine, does it matter where the machine was manufactured?