Government employee thread! (Being a government employee is sweet) (2 Viewers)

[ChiefD]

I just don't want the thread to get shut down with people going into the grey areas. LA fires thread was shut down for similar reasons.

Are you a government employee?

 

[Orange&Blue]

This might be the most horrible transition ever imagined and that's not being political.

I also don't understand this 8 months thing at all. If retirement eligible do they still get it or forfeiting?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Really sorry for guys having to deal with this. So much more I want to say but will refrain.

 

[Redwes25]

I just saw the email on Reddit. So it’s not severance? It’s a “get out of RTO” offer? You agree to quit by 9/30 in exchange for not having to return to the office, but you still are working.

OPM frequently asked question implies unlikely people will be required to work. Of course email is not that clear.

Frequently Asked Questions

Welcome to opm.gov

www.opm.gov

 

[Sleestak]

I have a coworker thinking about taking the offer. He wasn’t eligible to retire until March of 2027. He comes to the office every day so it’s not the work from home part driving his decision. He has 35 years in and wants to retire early and find a part time job and live happily ever after. Says he will still come to work until 30 September also. He asked if I thought there could/would be repercussions from supervisors or command from taking the out. I don’t have those answers. Anyone think this could be frowned upon from supervisory positions when everyone gets into the office tomorrow.

Please inform your coworker that NO, this is not "retirement". He will lose health benefits (FEHB) forever, and he will be performing a "Deferred Retirement" as far as claiming his annuity is concerned, which has some drawbacks vice performing a normal retirement at Minimum Retirement Age of 57. He might also lose the SRS from age 57-62. Not sure on that one.

This offer is "If you promise to quit by Sept 30 we will let you continue to work remotely from now until then". I can think of very few situations where this is better than just working to Sept 30 as planned. I mean, first you have to trust these guys to pay up. Then you have to ask, do they actually have the authority?

Tell him to sit tight, and wait for the RIFs and VERA to materialize.

And would the news organizations STOP calling this a "buyout" (AP, CNN, NBC)?

 

[Max Power]

Came in to our email this morning. We don't have many telework positions where I'm at. Everyone needs to be back in-person no later than 24 FEB. Situational telework is likely to be approved, but they are still working it.

Telework due to Reasonable accommodation will be an exception to the policy.

 

[belljr]

are people really that bent out of shape over the RTO..... sure it sucks and people will have other options but in the end whatever.

now people hired as fully remote i get should not suffer. As long as AWS still is available which I'm not sure will stay at this point it could be worse. .02.... but it doesnt help with my anxiety for sure

 

[Oracle]

There are two people in the high-performance computing section that want to counter offer the deferred retirement option.

High-level overview…this division is responsible for all fed government super computers. Senior Staff falls under NN pay scale and is capped at $215,000. Normally these positions would pay at least $100,000 more a year in private industry. It is common to get at least two or three interview requests via private industry, weekly.

I think they are DONE and realize they have better options. I hate this as I feel most of this team works for less because of how important the systems are for national security and research. It’s sad to see such specialized talent consider throwing in the towel.

 

[Sand]

Federal employee lawsuit alleges security, privacy risks in new OPM communications system

The plaintiffs claim OPM violated the E-Government Act by not releasing details of how the email system will manage federal employees’ personal information.

federalnewsnetwork.com

We're taking about the OPM that allowed the Chinese to download anything they wanted, including the whole cache of personnel with clearances.

Not trusting the OPM with data security is the only logical thing to do.

 

[Max Power]

Federal employee lawsuit alleges security, privacy risks in new OPM communications system

The plaintiffs claim OPM violated the E-Government Act by not releasing details of how the email system will manage federal employees’ personal information.

federalnewsnetwork.com

We're taking about the OPM that allowed the Chinese to download anything they wanted, including the whole cache of personnel with clearances.

Not trusting the OPM with data security is the only logical thing to do.

That situation was insane. All my data and my family's data was compromised. They knew China was backdoored in 6 months and let them maintain the access because they were trying to figure out how they got in.

 

[Joe Bryant]

And would the news organizations STOP calling this a "buyout" (AP, CNN, NBC)?

What do you think serious news agencies should call it?

 

[Sleestak]

are people really that bent out of shape over the RTO..... sure it sucks and people will have other options but in the end whatever.

Since it is stupid, and plainly a part of the larger effort to create a hostile work environment, yes. We are adults, and are being treated like bad children.

But yes, in the prior century we all were at the office 5 days a week, and will survive a return to that paradigm. If you really can't hack that, find a job elsewhere. Personally, I don't care since I rarely teleworked. But you have to give folks some time to vent on this one.

 

[Sleestak]

And would the news organizations STOP calling this a "buyout" (AP, CNN, NBC)?

What do you think serious news agencies should call it?

Not my job. But it isn't a buyout.

(Not trying to be abrupt, Joe - still trying to craft a term - it is more like an "Agreement" than anything else)

 

[FBG Moderator]

just read where it only took the Nazis 53 days to take complete control.

Please keep politics out of this.

And for sure, stop these types of posts if this thread is to stay alive.

 

[The Z Machine]

And would the news organizations STOP calling this a "buyout" (AP, CNN, NBC)?

What do you think serious news agencies should call it?

An attempt to get people to quit without offering them much in return. The employees that take this offer are still required to work. It isn't severance.

 

[Max Power]

are people really that bent out of shape over the RTO..... sure it sucks and people will have other options but in the end whatever.

Since it is stupid, and plainly a part of the larger effort to create a hostile work environment, yes. We are adults, and are being treated like bad children.

But yes, in the prior century we all were at the office 5 days a week, and will survive a return to that paradigm. If you really can't hack that, find a job elsewhere. Personally, I don't care since I rarely teleworked. But you have to give folks some time to vent on this one.

Its government throwing its weight around to enact policy. They've done similar things in the past. Its a scare tactic and a buy off.

I'll say I'm also in the camp where returning to work isn't a big deal. If people don't want to do it, there are other jobs available that prioritize WFH.

 

[Max Power]

And would the news organizations STOP calling this a "buyout" (AP, CNN, NBC)?

What do you think serious news agencies should call it?

An attempt to get people to quit without offering them much in return. The employees that take this offer are still required to work. It isn't severance.

The employing agency determines if a worker is placed on paid administration leave until separation.

 

[Sleestak]

Looks like I am wrong, and the use of the term "buyout" may be correct.

I went to opm.gov/fork/faq
The first question in the FAQ is "Am I expected to work during the deferred resignation period?".
The answer is "No. Except in rare cases determined by your agency, you are not expected to work."

I think the Letter and the FAQ don't tell the same story. Not sure which one to trust.

 

[Max Power]

Looks like I am wrong, and the use of the term "buyout" may be correct.

I went to opm.gov/fork/faq
The first question in the FAQ is "Am I expected to work during the deferred resignation period?".
The answer is "No. Except in rare cases determined by your agency, you are not expected to work."

I think the Letter and the FAQ don't tell the same story. Not sure which one to trust.

To me it read that everyone resigning is still expected to professionally turnover their projects/tasks to someone else. That may be a lengthy process in some cases.

 

[Don Quixote]

If people don't want to do it, there are other jobs available that prioritize WFH.

The fact that there are other jobs available that prioritize it or give a bit more flexibility raises a lot of the concerns that I’ve seen/heard. People from management perspective concerned about losing good workers that will not be able to replace. There have been some posts in this thread about folks leaving or considering leaving.

 

[dgreen]

And would the news organizations STOP calling this a "buyout" (AP, CNN, NBC)?

What do you think serious news agencies should call it?

An attempt to get people to quit without offering them much in return. The employees that take this offer are still required to work. It isn't severance.

The latest attempt to get people to quit because they know they can’t just fire everyone. So, put out a rumor of a severance then send out an email that doesn’t really say that it’s severance with, most likely, no guidance to agencies how to handle this, create confusion, and hope some people reply “Resign” and immediately try to enforce that “agreement” to this unclear plan.

But that is more words than “buyout”.

 

[The Z Machine]

And would the news organizations STOP calling this a "buyout" (AP, CNN, NBC)?

What do you think serious news agencies should call it?

An attempt to get people to quit without offering them much in return. The employees that take this offer are still required to work. It isn't severance.

The employing agency determines if a worker is placed on paid administration leave until separation.

Good point. It's still not severance. If your employer can force you to continue to work during this period, it's not a buy out.

 

[Sleestak]

And would the news organizations STOP calling this a "buyout" (AP, CNN, NBC)?

What do you think serious news agencies should call it?

An attempt to get people to quit without offering them much in return. The employees that take this offer are still required to work. It isn't severance.

The employing agency determines if a worker is placed on paid administration leave until separation.

Good point. It's still not severance. If your employer can force you to continue to work during this period, it's not a buy out.

Its kind of a pig in a poke, isn't it.

 

[Sand]

are people really that bent out of shape over the RTO..... sure it sucks and people will have other options but in the end whatever.

Since it is stupid, and plainly a part of the larger effort to create a hostile work environment, yes. We are adults, and are being treated like bad children.

Welcome to the world with the rest of us.

 

[-OZ-]

are people really that bent out of shape over the RTO..... sure it sucks and people will have other options but in the end whatever.

Since it is stupid, and plainly a part of the larger effort to create a hostile work environment, yes. We are adults, and are being treated like bad children.

Welcome to the world with the rest of us.

Can we start getting paid like the rest of our peers? A very big reason many of us chose government work was stability, family friendly culture (at least with my offices) and other benefits.

 

[Oracle]

are people really that bent out of shape over the RTO..... sure it sucks and people will have other options but in the end whatever.

Since it is stupid, and plainly a part of the larger effort to create a hostile work environment, yes. We are adults, and are being treated like bad children.

But yes, in the prior century we all were at the office 5 days a week, and will survive a return to that paradigm. If you really can't hack that, find a job elsewhere. Personally, I don't care since I rarely teleworked. But you have to give folks some time to vent on this one.

Its government throwing its weight around to enact policy. They've done similar things in the past. Its a scare tactic and a buy off.

I'll say I'm also in the camp where returning to work isn't a big deal. If people don't want to do it, there are other jobs available that prioritize WFH.

For the hpc group at DOE, telework was never an option. Collaboration is mandatory.

The problem right now is we design and build exascale supercomputer's (a very expensive adventure) and currently we cannot work with any vendors if our contract is over $100,000. The exascale computers run one quintillion floating operations per second. To be funded, via congressional mandate our computers are to be at 87% efficiency. That means our computers run 24/7 for close to 355 days a week. We are concerned that we will not meet our congressional mandates due to our starting/stopping work with our vendors. If the mandate is not met, we could lose all or partial funding. If this gets anywhere out of hand, I hope there are allowances due to our current situation.

Everyone in our group has a PhD in computer science or computer engineering and have at least 10 years experience. Most of us are in the 20+ year experience. It is not easy to find qualified candidates to replace us. However, I can turn around and get a job with AMD, Nvidia, Cray, Intel, IBM, etc..

 

[belljr]

are people really that bent out of shape over the RTO..... sure it sucks and people will have other options but in the end whatever.

Since it is stupid, and plainly a part of the larger effort to create a hostile work environment, yes. We are adults, and are being treated like bad children.

But yes, in the prior century we all were at the office 5 days a week, and will survive a return to that paradigm. If you really can't hack that, find a job elsewhere. Personally, I don't care since I rarely teleworked. But you have to give folks some time to vent on this one.

True.....I assumed eventually it would go back to precovid no matter who was in charge. But the more I think about it it's definitely and old person that's not how things should be done issue. I don't mean that politically, I mean the older ceos that think everyone always has to be in office

 

[Orange&Blue]

I just saw the email on Reddit. So it’s not severance? It’s a “get out of RTO” offer? You agree to quit by 9/30 in exchange for not having to return to the office, but you still are working.

OPM frequently asked question implies unlikely people will be required to work. Of course email is not that clear.

Frequently Asked Questions

Welcome to opm.gov

www.opm.gov

there are questions on questions on this

 

[FarFromHome]

For context I've worked 3 separate federal agencies, so my opinion is from someone that lived it.

Objectively speaking here. I'm not making a case for or against what is going on.

When your turning any business around one of the obvious early things to look at is payroll. Tightening up payroll is always smart for the employer. The debate becomes where is the balance?

The federal government is one giant workforce and it's clear that tightening payroll is a priority right now. What that looks like and how that happens is tough to say.

One thing we do know is they are gonna make cuts. The other thing we do know is we have a long history of federal government doing things that make you scratch your head.

My heart goes out to those involved.

 

[dgreen]

are people really that bent out of shape over the RTO..... sure it sucks and people will have other options but in the end whatever.

Since it is stupid, and plainly a part of the larger effort to create a hostile work environment, yes. We are adults, and are being treated like bad children.

But yes, in the prior century we all were at the office 5 days a week, and will survive a return to that paradigm. If you really can't hack that, find a job elsewhere. Personally, I don't care since I rarely teleworked. But you have to give folks some time to vent on this one.

True.....I assumed eventually it would go back to precovid no matter who was in charge. But the more I think about it it's definitely and old person that's not how things should be done issue. I don't mean that politically, I mean the older ceos that think everyone always has to be in office

There are a decent number of people who arranged their lives around the prior agreement they had with their agencies. Personally, I'm pissed because I'm now going to spend 10-15 hours per week commuting, getting up earlier, getting home later, and having less time with those I love the most. But, I had that situation before, so I realize it's not the end of the world. Others however, live a lot further than I do. They made decisions based on having to come in one day per week. We have people in PA, NC, and even as far away as CO. 30 days isn't enough time to resolve everything needed to move back, and my agency isn't even officially giving 30 days (they said the expectation is immediately reporting to office every day). And then there's people in situations with younger kids. Many of them now need new child care arrangements, ones they may not be able to get because of lack of space available in child care centers. Increased commutes, the need to move, the need for additional child care all translate to pay cuts and, more importantly, quality of life.

Additionally, knowing this is all about getting people to leave, I think it's clear that this is just step 1. In the event that not enough people voluntarily leave, there will be more policies coming. Maybe we lose our ability to work a flex schedule (some offices are already interpreting the guidance to mean 5 days per week and not allowing 4-10 schedules). Maybe other benefits are changed related to leave or health insurance or retirement.

These are the types of things I hear people talking about. Most people feel more is coming.

 

[Max Power]

Told my worst employee if he leaves his computer unlocked and walks away, I'm typing "resign" and hitting send. Half joking

 

[dgreen]

Told my worst employee if he leaves his computer unlocked and walks away, I'm typing "resign" and hitting send. Half joking

Well, it is just about the most least secure method ever mentioned for initiating a serious personnel action.

I kind of want to reply “re-sign” or “telework” or “promotion” or “projected age 62 retirement available now”.

 

[Max Power]

Told my worst employee if he leaves his computer unlocked and walks away, I'm typing "resign" and hitting send. Half joking

Well, it is just about the most least secure method ever mentioned for initiating a serious personnel action.

I kind of want to reply “re-sign” or “telework” or “promotion” or “projected age 62 retirement available now”.

I agree there. Kind of silly how they implemented that. Not even a "go talk to HR".

 

[belljr]

are people really that bent out of shape over the RTO..... sure it sucks and people will have other options but in the end whatever.

Since it is stupid, and plainly a part of the larger effort to create a hostile work environment, yes. We are adults, and are being treated like bad children.

But yes, in the prior century we all were at the office 5 days a week, and will survive a return to that paradigm. If you really can't hack that, find a job elsewhere. Personally, I don't care since I rarely teleworked. But you have to give folks some time to vent on this one.

True.....I assumed eventually it would go back to precovid no matter who was in charge. But the more I think about it it's definitely and old person that's not how things should be done issue. I don't mean that politically, I mean the older ceos that think everyone always has to be in office

There are a decent number of people who arranged their lives around the prior agreement they had with their agencies. Personally, I'm pissed because I'm now going to spend 10-15 hours per week commuting, getting up earlier, getting home later, and having less time with those I love the most. But, I had that situation before, so I realize it's not the end of the world. Others however, live a lot further than I do. They made decisions based on having to come in one day per week. We have people in PA, NC, and even as far away as CO. 30 days isn't enough time to resolve everything needed to move back, and my agency isn't even officially giving 30 days (they said the expectation is immediately reporting to office every day). And then there's people in situations with younger kids. Many of them now need new child care arrangements, ones they may not be able to get because of lack of space available in child care centers. Increased commutes, the need to move, the need for additional child care all translate to pay cuts and, more importantly, quality of life.

Additionally, knowing this is all about getting people to leave, I think it's clear that this is just step 1. In the event that not enough people voluntarily leave, there will be more policies coming. Maybe we lose our ability to work a flex schedule (some offices are already interpreting the guidance to mean 5 days per week and not allowing 4-10 schedules). Maybe other benefits are changed related to leave or health insurance or retirement.

These are the types of things I hear people talking about. Most people feel more is coming.

Very valid. The AWS is worrisome. The EO doesn't mention 5;days but all the verbiage you read in emails always does

 

[Oracle]

Waiting on clarification, but found out that people that hold Q clearance should not have received this email as supposedly they are not eligible for deferred retirement. What a mess…

 

[dgreen]

Waiting on clarification, but found out that people that hold Q clearance should not have received this email as supposedly they are not eligible for deferred retirement. What a mess…

Also, deferred retirement is not nearly as good as postponed retirement. The usual advice is to not take a deferred.retirement, rather you should postpone your retirement. They are two different things.This means either the people in charge of these OPM messages don’t know there is a difference or they are trying to guide people into a worse retirement situation.

 

[Gally]

It doesn't seem like anything but a way to quit. I don't see what it gains anyone in any way.

ETA: I guess it allows you to maintain the ability to WFH until September (if your organization allows you to keep working) if you quit now.

 

[Mjolnirs]

DOGE's mandate was reduced to improving federal IT systems, if you weren't aware.

If they would get the VA to stop trying to push CERNER out, that would be great.
Retired VA employee here, and haven't been in this thread in a while. Retired 2.5 years now, after 35 with VA.
I've chatted with a few former coworkers to see what they are hearing. We were Regional IT and had all been working from home prior to COVID. I was 100% at home starting in 2015.
So far, nobody has been told to return to a facility.

 

[Riffraff]

people that hold Q clearance

Seems like a variation of {old person voice} the military term called 'stop loss'. An involuntary extension of voluntary employment, err service, while others transferred, retired, or went along with their lives.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

DOGE's mandate was reduced to improving federal IT systems, if you weren't aware.

If they would get the VA to stop trying to push CERNER out, that would be great.
Retired VA employee here, and haven't been in this thread in a while. Retired 2.5 years now, after 35 with VA.
I've chatted with a few former coworkers to see what they are hearing. We were Regional IT and had all been working from home prior to COVID. I was 100% at home starting in 2015.
So far, nobody has been told to return to a facility.

I'm a trainer for this software on the DoD side, and I while agree with you 100% that the Cerner program is a goat rodeo (their 3-year deployment plan on the DoD side took almost 8 years to complete, for example, and 'lessons learned' was a myth). They are slowly centralizing all training and IT support related to it, and while the GS trainers of the legacy system were allowed to be trained on the new system, they will not be replaced as they age out, and I believe the youngest of us are in our 50s so it won't be long until all support for it will be handled by a cadre of remotely located Cerner/Oracle staff--and who knows, may even eventually outsourced to India, as all they use now is a notebook cross-reference by keywords so that one doesn't have to know anything other than how to read, and in an ironic twist, don't have restrictions on working from home. This plan makes Cerner/MHS Genesis the poster child for reducing government payroll, no matter how unremarkable it is and how galactically stupid the plan is.

 

[Oracle]

Waiting on clarification, but found out that people that hold Q clearance should not have received this email as supposedly they are not eligible for deferred retirement. What a mess…

Also, deferred retirement is not nearly as good as postponed retirement. The usual advice is to not take a deferred.retirement, rather you should postpone your retirement. They are two different things.This means either the people in charge of these OPM messages don’t know there is a difference or they are trying to guide people into a worse retirement situation.

I’m not certain anybody was truly looking at deferred retirement. I feel that this is venting about frustrations due to chaos that has been thrown at everyone. Hoping for no more intimidating/coercive emails.

 

[Riffraff]

Also, deferred retirement is not nearly as good as postponed retirement. The usual advice is to not take a deferred.retirement, rather you should postpone your retirement.

Better served in the 'retire early' topic:

General rule - correct - postponed is better. Basically the same concept as taking Social Security at 62 instead of 'full' retirement age SS. Take less early (and permanently) but get to use it immediately.

But taking it can be useful for retiring early to pay bills or take trips. 75% pension over 5 years instead of 0% can take - over 15 years - to 'recoup the loss of 25% post 62'. Age 77+ to break even (and start 'losing') when health is failing and less fun and games in life - difference won't really pay for drastically better healthcare or lifestyle. The closer one is to 62, the less it makes sense (ditto for full SS age) - get the bigger amount.

All depends if one really expects to live a really long time beyond the average life expectancy or wants to enjoy the earlier years just a little more. Family health history (+ for both partners if in a couple), wanting to enjoy the 50's more, personal finance situation - results may vary.

 

[Riffraff]

I'm a trainer for this software on the DoD side, and I while agree with you 100% that the Cerner program is a goat rodeo (their 3-year deployment plan on the DoD side took almost 8 years to complete, for example, and 'lessons learned' was a myth). They are slowly centralizing all training and IT support related to it, and while the GS trainers of the legacy system were allowed to be trained on the new system, they will not be replaced as they age out, and I believe the youngest of us are in our 50s so it won't be long until all support for it will be handled by a cadre of remotely located Cerner/Oracle staff--and who knows, may even eventually outsourced to India, as all they use now is a notebook cross-reference by keywords so that one doesn't have to know anything other than how to read, and in an ironic twist, don't have restrictions on working from home. This plan makes Cerner/MHS Genesis the poster child for reducing government payroll, no matter how unremarkable it is and how galactically stupid the plan is.

This is highly dependent upon a couple things and causes multiple problems/dilemmas:
- Size of the individual health facility (Medical Center vs Hospital vs clinic vs brigade) investment in the Informatics division. No investment = they gone. High investment = still employed, but has ownership in other systems/IT projects as well - have to be more then just the health record. Informatics is rare since all Army, Navy, and Air Force locations do not have it.
- Re-merger of Informatics (Health IT mission systems, database admin, research, development, training) and Information Management (normal admin computers / network). Blur the lines and there will be less expertise on either one.
- Clinical support suffers - no onsite support for issues. Make a doctor call in to a help desk to open a ticket while the next patient (in pain) is sitting in the waiting or exam room causes a back-up, less patient satisfaction, and wastes tax payer $. The help desk only has a few steps they can try administratively before they have to send it over to Cerner, causing a longer 'valued customer, please hold for a ticket response - your call is important to us'.
- Cost savings by centralizing is immense. They saved over $15mil annual in 1 day almost a year ago by releasing some of the contract support. Counterweight argument was that it put more stress on the remaining GS. As already known, GS are less expensive until they start pulling a pension for life (different pot of $, but costly in the big picture of things).
- Bean counters do not account for high turnover in clinical staff and the on-boarding process. Military providers change locations. Residents graduate. Nurses are in high demand across the nation and move on more frequently. Less personnel while in the hiring phase costs money and adds stress to the remaining staff. The account access and training time, post credential validation (legally allowed to provide care at the new location), is too many weeks worth of waiting - an MD can sit around for a month getting 5-figures to do nothing except mandatory training when they would rather be seeing patients.

- DOGE would likely push the merger, tighten up on-boarding time, and reduction in size of staff at remote locations for centralized DHA control.
One can only wish they would streamline the red-tape upper levels - err decision makers. Could greatly affect DHA since it has the Cerner/Oracle/Genesis contract and owns the GS trainers and contractors programs.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

I'm a trainer for this software on the DoD side, and I while agree with you 100% that the Cerner program is a goat rodeo (their 3-year deployment plan on the DoD side took almost 8 years to complete, for example, and 'lessons learned' was a myth). They are slowly centralizing all training and IT support related to it, and while the GS trainers of the legacy system were allowed to be trained on the new system, they will not be replaced as they age out, and I believe the youngest of us are in our 50s so it won't be long until all support for it will be handled by a cadre of remotely located Cerner/Oracle staff--and who knows, may even eventually outsourced to India, as all they use now is a notebook cross-reference by keywords so that one doesn't have to know anything other than how to read, and in an ironic twist, don't have restrictions on working from home. This plan makes Cerner/MHS Genesis the poster child for reducing government payroll, no matter how unremarkable it is and how galactically stupid the plan is.

This is highly dependent upon a couple things and causes multiple problems/dilemmas:
- Size of the individual health facility (Medical Center vs Hospital vs clinic vs brigade) investment in the Informatics division. No investment = they gone. High investment = still employed, but has ownership in other systems/IT projects as well - have to be more then just the health record. Informatics is rare since all Army, Navy, and Air Force locations do not have it.
- Re-merger of Informatics (Health IT mission systems, database admin, research, development, training) and Information Management (normal admin computers / network). Blur the lines and there will be less expertise on either one.
- Clinical support suffers - no onsite support for issues. Make a doctor call in to a help desk to open a ticket while the next patient (in pain) is sitting in the waiting or exam room causes a back-up, less patient satisfaction, and wastes tax payer $. The help desk only has a few steps they can try administratively before they have to send it over to Cerner, causing a longer 'valued customer, please hold for a ticket response - your call is important to us'.
- Cost savings by centralizing is immense. They saved over $15mil annual in 1 day almost a year ago by releasing some of the contract support. Counterweight argument was that it put more stress on the remaining GS. As already known, GS are less expensive until they start pulling a pension for life (different pot of $, but costly in the big picture of things).
- Bean counters do not account for high turnover in clinical staff and the on-boarding process. Military providers change locations. Residents graduate. Nurses are in high demand across the nation and move on more frequently. Less personnel while in the hiring phase costs money and adds stress to the remaining staff. The account access and training time, post credential validation (legally allowed to provide care at the new location), is too many weeks worth of waiting - an MD can sit around for a month getting 5-figures to do nothing except mandatory training when they would rather be seeing patients.

- DOGE would likely push the merger, tighten up on-boarding time, and reduction in size of staff at remote locations for centralized DHA control.
One can only wish they would streamline the red-tape upper levels - err decision makers. Could greatly affect DHA since it has the Cerner/Oracle/Genesis contract and owns the GS trainers and contractors programs.

DHA doesn't weigh itself down with details like you mentioned.

Regarding the individual points, CMIO's (where the 'MI' means Medical Informatics) are kind of rare, and the three that I've had in the ~10 years since it became a thing had no IT background, which seemed to cause tension between them and our IT department. My personal observations of the position are that it seems to be more of a way for one to move to a career that doesn't have to start at the bottom and doesn't require at least half of the knowledge for the position. I wouldn't say having a medical informatics person on staff a waste, but for organizations that are bloated and need to shed middle management level staff, medical informatics is unnecessary. My limited experience (3 medical informatics officers in the ~10 years since it became a thing) says that CMIOs only know half the picture, usually medical, and the IT part is a steep curve. As for IT, though, DHA is also consolidating/centralizing that as well. Our local IT was in the habit of pushing out system updates after hours and in a controlled manor; DHA pushes out updates whenever, and their updates usually break the updates the local IT pushed out.

You're so spot on about who actually suffers because of this, and the role that I and the other trainers at my site have adopted since before I arrived 14 years ago is to contact the help desk on behalf of the end users, partly to save them time, and partly because we understand better than they do what needs to be fixed. The longest-tenured trainer has a degree in computer science and stays current with IT for the fun of it, and I'm a failed IT guy that didn't pass the A+ exam but know just enough to be helpful. To me, it's a better use of funds to pay us who make less than doctors and RNs deal with getting IT issues resolved than pay them their salaries to spend at least 30 minutes dealing with them. And speaking of the help desk, when it comes to Cerner/Genesis issues, the call center agents, like I said before, only have to know how to read and therefore don't have/need IT certifications and don't have to be paid much. More cost saving and less quality at the same time.

Bottom line, this is going to lead to a vicious circle of beneficiaries leaving Tricare, driving down revenue, which will lead to more cutbacks, which will lead to more disgruntled beneficiaries, to the point where only active duty servicemembers will be covered and not bother with Tricare once they're out. I believe that's actually DHA's long-term goal, which I understand, but they also better tell recruiters to stop enticing recruits with 'free medical care FOR LIFE!'

My facility has been under DHA's thumb for 3-4 years, and with each passing day, one word becomes more apropos to describe them: Soviet.

 

[Mjolnirs]

DOGE's mandate was reduced to improving federal IT systems, if you weren't aware.

If they would get the VA to stop trying to push CERNER out, that would be great.
Retired VA employee here, and haven't been in this thread in a while. Retired 2.5 years now, after 35 with VA.
I've chatted with a few former coworkers to see what they are hearing. We were Regional IT and had all been working from home prior to COVID. I was 100% at home starting in 2015.
So far, nobody has been told to return to a facility.

I'm a trainer for this software on the DoD side, and I while agree with you 100% that the Cerner program is a goat rodeo (their 3-year deployment plan on the DoD side took almost 8 years to complete, for example, and 'lessons learned' was a myth). They are slowly centralizing all training and IT support related to it, and while the GS trainers of the legacy system were allowed to be trained on the new system, they will not be replaced as they age out, and I believe the youngest of us are in our 50s so it won't be long until all support for it will be handled by a cadre of remotely located Cerner/Oracle staff--and who knows, may even eventually outsourced to India, as all they use now is a notebook cross-reference by keywords so that one doesn't have to know anything other than how to read, and in an ironic twist, don't have restrictions on working from home. This plan makes Cerner/MHS Genesis the poster child for reducing government payroll, no matter how unremarkable it is and how galactically stupid the plan is.

I didn't have any direct contact with CERNER conversion, but heard plenty from people that did. Those people are not impressed with the software nor the knowledge of their developers. I've also heard the physical requirements (closet sizes) were physically impossible at many hospitals.
Stories of problems at the sites that have converted are all over as well.

I know it's the future, but as a VistA person and MUMPS programmer, I'm not a fan. As we (VistA/MUMPS people) age out, if (when?) this fails, they can hire me back at contractor rates.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

as a VistA person and MUMPS programmer,

I always imagined we would sell our old systems to third world countries the same way we sell them obsolete jets and tanks and rifles.

Anyway, I would probably confirm every bad rumor you've heard about Cerner, its deployment and tech support. The problem is that none of this matters because all DHA cares about is profitability.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Anyway, I would probably confirm every bad rumor you've heard about Cerner, its deployment and tech support. The problem is that none of this matters because all DHA cares about is profitability.

Veteran health and lives be damned.

Sorry for the sidebar tangent.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

Anyway, I would probably confirm every bad rumor you've heard about Cerner, its deployment and tech support. The problem is that none of this matters because all DHA cares about is profitability.

Veteran health and lives be damned.

Sorry for the sidebar tangent.

Just glad to find someone to talk a little shop with.

 

[Oracle]

Because I was at the right place at the right time, got to listen in on the DHA 12:15 all hands. Seems like everyone is in the dark as how to move forward. I would describe the overall mood as shell shocked.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

From the new DHS secretary :
On January 28, 2025, the Office of Personnel Management sent an email to federal employees titled "“Fork in the Road”" detailing the opportunity for employees to resign from their federal positions under a Deferred Resignation. As explained in the message, this opportunity aligns with several directives issued by President Trump to reform the federal workforce.

We are finalizing DHS guidance to ensure full compliance with OPM and will provide it to Component and Office leadership soon.