Government employee thread! (Being a government employee is sweet) (1 Viewer)

[FarFromHome]

n. Was just adding a layer to an interesting conversation that in the civilian world layoffs are a normal thing.

Mostly? One is expected and the other isn’t.
One of the biggest perks of being a government employee is the safety / security. I know, or used to know, that as long as I’m performing adequately I can bank on my continued employment at the same salary with small increases and the occasional promotion. We don’t get large bonuses or significant increases in salary unless we compete for a promotion. I can’t go into my boss’s office and make an argument for increased salary (with any chance of success). Those in business trade off some risk for reward.
Now that we’re seeing the risk increase without the reward, we start to wonder if it’s worth it, and know that others will contemplate the same.

Yes there should be a review of what is needed and a plan for a RIF if appropriate. But we expect a plan both transparent and logical.

Good points. I will also add, although security safety was a factor, for me the biggest perk for federal employment was the pension. It was decades ago when I started, but I recognized the civilian sector was eliminating that golden ticket of being paid for the rest of your life even though you weren't working any longer. In this current scenario, their is gonna be examples of people taking lower paying government jobs for the pension and never acquiring one. Those laid off at less then 10 years service that took the job for the pension got hosed.

That too, although it’s why I went active duty Army. Pension plus health insurance for life.

That and to serve your wonderful country? Ha ha. Just kidding fellow soldier. Just kidding.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

Not sure I understand the question. Do we have the situation where a company is just randomly shutting down plants in a way that isn't going to save them money or help them get to their goals?

I'm not sure the "hype" around this stuff in DC is about the layoffs themselves. It seems to be more about how haphazardly things are being done, and even then doing them isn't really accomplishing the stated "goal" in any meaningful way. Maybe that's just MY read on it.

Or are you asking why we are looking at federal government decisions differently than private enterprise decisions?

Wasnt really asking a question. Was just adding a layer to an interesting conversation that in the civilian world layoffs are a normal thing. Also, people for decades have commented on government spending being a big problem. To fix that problem it feels like they needed to adopt some business principles. Business principles would start with downsizing payroll. My point is when pushing for efficiency in the business world and in the government world real people are left on the outside looking in. My brain understands what's going on, but my heart also has compassion for what's going on. Just an interesting scenario playing out live for us. All my uneducated opinion of course.

Got it. I'm rather confident that a private industry layoff that was done haphazardly and in a way that doesn't address the company's stated objective would probably get some "buzz". This is why I posed the question before if anyone disagreed that things had to be addressed. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that statement. We know there is bloat. We know there are inefficiencies. We know that the federal government is HUGE. We know that the correct approach would take a massive effort in research and analysis. <--- This part is where the "buzz" is coming from IMO. There is a major disconnect on that point. They have to explain to us how what they are doing is moving towards their stated goal. The two clearly aren't meshing with each other and the people left in the wake of chaos are getting screwed.

Almost all of the layoffs I’ve participated in within the private sector to some level felt wrong and sometimes haphazard. The folks doing the work never think less resources is a good idea. As a client of some of these companies looking at the companies doing the layoffs from the outside I am usually like “welp, that makes no sense, their service sucks already”. From the outside looking in this effort by the admin certainly has some appearance of haphazard…but honestly the numbers don’t seem very big to me so far.

I do think that in general for any administration, but especially one with one term and a bit of catching lightning in a bottle with political capital you want to get as much done as possible in the first 100 days before political and bureaucratic rigor mortis sets in.

You're speaking from a lens of subjectivity. I was speaking from one of objectivity. What it feels like as one goes through it isn't what I am speaking of as I stated above.

 

[-OZ-]

n. Was just adding a layer to an interesting conversation that in the civilian world layoffs are a normal thing.

Mostly? One is expected and the other isn’t.
One of the biggest perks of being a government employee is the safety / security. I know, or used to know, that as long as I’m performing adequately I can bank on my continued employment at the same salary with small increases and the occasional promotion. We don’t get large bonuses or significant increases in salary unless we compete for a promotion. I can’t go into my boss’s office and make an argument for increased salary (with any chance of success). Those in business trade off some risk for reward.
Now that we’re seeing the risk increase without the reward, we start to wonder if it’s worth it, and know that others will contemplate the same.

Yes there should be a review of what is needed and a plan for a RIF if appropriate. But we expect a plan both transparent and logical.

Good points. I will also add, although security safety was a factor, for me the biggest perk for federal employment was the pension. It was decades ago when I started, but I recognized the civilian sector was eliminating that golden ticket of being paid for the rest of your life even though you weren't working any longer. In this current scenario, their is gonna be examples of people taking lower paying government jobs for the pension and never acquiring one. Those laid off at less then 10 years service that took the job for the pension got hosed.

That too, although it’s why I went active duty Army. Pension plus health insurance for life.

That and to serve your wonderful country? Ha ha. Just kidding fellow soldier. Just kidding.

like I tell my kids though, there are many ways to serve.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

"National Nuclear Security Administration officials on Friday attempted to notify some employees who had been let go the day before that they are now due to be reinstated — but they struggled to find them because they didn’t have their new contact information. In an email sent to employees at NNSA and obtained by NBC News, officials wrote, “The termination letters for some NNSA probationary employees are being rescinded, but we do not have a good way to get in touch with those personnel.”"

Trump administration wants to un-fire nuclear safety workers but can’t figure out how to reach them

The workers, whose agency oversees the nation’s nuclear stockpile, had been fired on Thursday and lost access to their federal government email accounts.

www.nbcnews.com

I'm sorry, but this is just incompetence or news exaggerating a situation

I have 15 people working for me and I have their personal phone numbers (because agency too cheap to give work cell) and their home addresses. My boss and his boss all have this information for emergency recall situations

I only have a personal cell but only my direct team members, boss and senior boss have my phone number. It helps that I was sorta friends with most before I took this job.

The department of Energy was started by President Carter with one directive.
Eliminate or reduce this Country's dependence on foreign oil.

To be clear, the short-lived Energy Research and Development Agency and the Atomic Energy Commission before that held much of what became DOE mission space. DOE was just the latest iteration, and the Carter administration took on other significant energy-related policy changes.

Sande, you guys doing OK at the lab?

As a government-owned contractor-operated FFRDC, we seem to be a degree or two of separation from the front lines, but as I've told many, I am a bit more concerned with each passing day...to the point that I have thoughts about our exit strategy in the back of my head (my wife is at one of the other national labs in the Bay Area, so we're each exposed). About half of my lab's workforce - about 9,500 people or so - has been with us for 5 or fewer years. But our primary mission - national security through maintaining the nation's nuclear weapon stockpile - has a lot of bipartisan support, so I'm hopeful.

The national labs drive innovation in our country, so there's something to be said for protecting that, to an extent.

Appreciate you asking Z. Best to the family!

 

[Max Power]

I was in a Brigade level reorganization working group most of last week to maximize our unit's effectiveness and support capabilities. We're still short people and still fighting a RIF that was initiated three years ago.

Good news is that it sounds like no DRP or probationary employees will be let go. Bad news is we just got word to cut 8% from our operating budget for FY2026. We were only expecting a 5% cut.

We're preparing for boarder ops in the near future, so the hope is that will get the money turned back on. We'll see...

 

[Manster]

So, while I may not agree with Trump's methods, I think he's on to something here.

So if you think there are tons of lazy government workers than you fire all the probationary ones who just got there and are likely working the hardest??

It's not so much that I think there are tons of lazy gub workers as much as I think the way things are structured, there is lots of waste, and not a lot of motivation to be efficient.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

"National Nuclear Security Administration officials on Friday attempted to notify some employees who had been let go the day before that they are now due to be reinstated — but they struggled to find them because they didn’t have their new contact information. In an email sent to employees at NNSA and obtained by NBC News, officials wrote, “The termination letters for some NNSA probationary employees are being rescinded, but we do not have a good way to get in touch with those personnel.”"

Trump administration wants to un-fire nuclear safety workers but can’t figure out how to reach them

The workers, whose agency oversees the nation’s nuclear stockpile, had been fired on Thursday and lost access to their federal government email accounts.

www.nbcnews.com

I'm sorry, but this is just incompetence or news exaggerating a situation

I have 15 people working for me and I have their personal phone numbers (because agency too cheap to give work cell) and their home addresses. My boss and his boss all have this information for emergency recall situations

I only have a personal cell but only my direct team members, boss and senior boss have my phone number. It helps that I was sorta friends with most before I took this job.

The department of Energy was started by President Carter with one directive.
Eliminate or reduce this Country's dependence on foreign oil.

To be clear, the short-lived Energy Research and Development Agency and the Atomic Energy Commission before that held much of what became DOE mission space. DOE was just the latest iteration, and the Carter administration took on other significant energy-related policy changes.

Sande, you guys doing OK at the lab?

As a government-owned contractor-operated FFRDC, we seem to be a degree or two of separation from the front lines, but as I've told many, I am a bit more concerned with each passing day...to the point that I have thoughts about our exit strategy in the back of my head (my wife is at one of the other national labs in the Bay Area, so we're each exposed). About half of my lab's workforce - about 9,500 people or so - has been with us for 5 or fewer years. But our primary mission - national security through maintaining the nation's nuclear weapon stockpile - has a lot of bipartisan support, so I'm hopeful.

The national labs drive innovation in our country, so there's something to be said for protecting that, to an extent.

Appreciate you asking Z. Best to the family!

I would love to know what 9500 people do…..pure curiosity, no agenda.

Best of luck with everything……unusual times for sure

Edit to add: thanks for doing work to keep us secure

 

[Gally]

It's not so much that I think there are tons of lazy gub workers as much as I think the way things are structured, there is lots of waste, and not a lot of motivation to be efficient.

This is my biggest issue with the approach being done. Much of the bloat is "needed" because the procedures and structures in place are so inefficient that it takes many more people to accomplish what needs to be done than it should. So while there is a need to layoff unneeded people, you need to fix the procedures/structures in place otherwise many things will just get worse.

 

[djmich]

It's not so much that I think there are tons of lazy gub workers as much as I think the way things are structured, there is lots of waste, and not a lot of motivation to be efficient.

This is my biggest issue with the approach being done. Much of the bloat is "needed" because the procedures and structures in place are so inefficient that it takes many more people to accomplish what needs to be done than it should. So while there is a need to layoff unneeded people, you need to fix the procedures/structures in place otherwise many things will just get worse.

True. Unlike private sector the bloat in government doesn’t have the same economic incentives to get efficient, in fact the incentives are often the opposite. Injecting change much more difficult.

 

[the moops]

I know this has been brought up before, but I do love the amount of posting in this thread during the workday by private employees complaining about how inefficient government workers are

 

[Harry Manback]

I know this has been brought up before, but I do love the amount of posting in this thread during the workday by private employees complaining about how inefficient government workers are

Do you not believe in multitasking, breaks or both?

 

[The Z Machine]

The national labs drive innovation in our country, so there's something to be said for protecting that

So do NIH grants...

Anyway, glad you're slightly removed and not directly in the crosshairs. Same for the wife.

 

[djmich]

I know this has been brought up before, but I do love the amount of posting in this thread during the workday by private employees complaining about how inefficient government workers are

I think the complaint is that they’re at least as inefficient!

 

[Manster]

I know this has been brought up before, but I do love the amount of posting in this thread during the workday by private employees complaining about how inefficient government workers are

Different motivation. My company can go out of business if we don't make a profit. We have to run lean. Gub agencies often blow grant money because if they don't, they won't get it the next year. That's wasteful of taxpayer money.

 

[Gally]

Your hypothetical private company would have crunched the numbers and carefully decided which manufacturing plant was the least efficient or didn’t perform in line with costs, etc. They likely spent months if not a year or more making the decision before doing so. The “shock and awe” is anything but logical. It’s the exact opposite of logical.

That was not my experience. I went through a few layoffs in the private sector and the means and methods seemed just as willy-nilly as what is happening right now to the govvies. Sure some private companies may do research and figure out the best way to trim but that isn't always the case.

 

[fatness]

There is some talk that maybe the reason this grant money was targeted was because it had the word transition in it and what someone with no special education background might have thought it meant. We are actually having some talks about the possible need to rewrite our SE materials and come up with a new word to use instead so we can perhaps not be a target.

It's crazy that use of a word is enough to get a grant yanked but here we are.
Anyway, here's a list of "Forbidden keywords that initiate a review at NSF", if that's helpful.

 

[Stoneworker]

Your hypothetical private company would have crunched the numbers and carefully decided which manufacturing plant was the least efficient or didn’t perform in line with costs, etc. They likely spent months if not a year or more making the decision before doing so. The “shock and awe” is anything but logical. It’s the exact opposite of logical.

That was not my experience. I went through a few layoffs in the private sector and the means and methods seemed just as willy-nilly as what is happening right now to the govvies. Sure some private companies may do research and figure out the best way to trim but that isn't always the case.

Yep. It is sheer fallacy to think that what the gov't is doing is significantly different than how layoffs are conducted in the private sector.

Feb 18, 2025 - Southwest Airlines to slash 15% of corporate workforce

"I mean they were crying....because they don't know if it's going to be the one-year employee or the 38-year employee that's going to get laid off,"

"This is such a cold and calculated corporate-type move that Southwest is not known for and the employees aren't used to, so it really did stun them when the email came out yesterday."

“We’re going to alienate our customer base and become a regular airline just like everyone else, they don’t know it yet but they’ll love it”

 

[Ilov80s]

There is some talk that maybe the reason this grant money was targeted was because it had the word transition in it and what someone with no special education background might have thought it meant. We are actually having some talks about the possible need to rewrite our SE materials and come up with a new word to use instead so we can perhaps not be a target.

It's crazy that use of a word is enough to get a grant yanked but here we are.
Anyway, here's a list of "Forbidden keywords that initiate a review at NSF", if that's helpful.

Probably not a good sign for job teaching people with disabilities that using the word disabilities in scientific research will get your work flagged.

 

[fatness]

Just to be clear and factual, the latest estimates put the probationary layoffs at about 12K.

There are over 220K gov't workers who have worked <1 year (WaPost) and about 280K been there <2 years (Reuters)

The process of eliminating probationary workers is still ongoing, correct?
So implying that the 12K is in any way a final total is a bit misleading.

 

[Stoneworker]

Just to be clear and factual, the latest estimates put the probationary layoffs at about 12K.

There are over 220K gov't workers who have worked <1 year (WaPost) and about 280K been there <2 years (Reuters)

The process of eliminating probationary workers is still ongoing, correct?
So implying that the 12K is in any way a final total is a bit misleading.

Complete baloney. I specifically stated "latest estimates" which was 100% factual as of this morning when posted.

Although the exact number of Federal employees who have been – or will be – affected by widespread layoffs instituted the Trump administration is not immediately clear, recent reports suggest the current number of cuts tops 12,000.

Over 12,000 Federal Employees Cut in Recent Layoffs

Although the exact number of Federal employees who have been – or will be – affected by widespread layoffs instituted the Trump administration is not immediately clear, recent reports suggest the current number of cuts tops 12,000.

www.meritalk.com

 

[glvsav37]

I'm left wondering why we have no buzz when a 300 plus employee manufacturing plant shuts down?

Please understand i mean this objectively not in an argumentative way.

I know what you are talking about.

60 minutes isn't flying to middle America and writing headlines like "Yesterday they knew where their next meal was coming from, how their kid's day care was being paid and how they were making the mortgage payment...but thats was yesterday. Today, that is all taken away rom them leaving many hopeless" when a manufacturing facility in Minnesota is shutting down, or a fortune 500 slashes 1/3rd of their workforce.

We know the answer, and it can't be discussed here.

 

[glvsav37]

I know this has been brought up before, but I do love the amount of posting in this thread during the workday by private employees complaining about how inefficient government workers are

Different motivation. My company can go out of business if we don't make a profit. We have to run lean. Gub agencies often blow grant money because if they don't, they won't get it the next year. That's wasteful of taxpayer money.

my father use to manage construction crews for the state of NY. He came from a civilian background and use to own and operate many businesses, mainly in route services.
He would tell me stories of guys who would loaf around on projects causing them to take 2-3x as long bc they were at a certain "level" and couldnt be touched. Dude who would be on a ladder and drop a new box of screws, ony to have a brand new one handed to them while the spilt ones just got swept up. We did our driveway in cobble stones one year b/c the contact from the state was to rip up perfectly good ones and just toss them (my father and I rescued them from the dumpster).

My father even went to his supervisors and offered to write a database for leftover material from completed jobs so they could be used on new jobs and they flat out told him, no. It was easier to just toss what was left and buy new.

These may have been small instances in the grand scheme of things, but compound his department over every other dept's like his in the sate and you get massive waste.

 

[the moops]

I know this has been brought up before, but I do love the amount of posting in this thread during the workday by private employees complaining about how inefficient government workers are

Do you not believe in multitasking, breaks or both?

Absolutely. But it's ludicrous to think that is what most of us are doing while we argue over stupid stuff in here

 

[Capella]

We know the answer, and it can't be discussed here.

The answer is because federal jobs are almost always lower paying and in exchange for that you get the comfort of job security. Everybody knows you can be fired in the private sector on a whim but for the same type of jobs you are generally getting 30-40% more in pay. This kind of mass layoff being handled in such a poor fashion has never been the case for government jobs.

 

[Don Quixote]

DoD going to be next with the probationary employees getting fired.

https://wapo.st/41pS3ZV

 

[Gally]

My father even went to his supervisors and offered to write a database for leftover material from completed jobs so they could be used on new jobs and they flat out told him, no. It was easier to just toss what was left and buy new.

If the materials were purchased for a government project then the government bought all those materials and therefore by law they couldn't be used elsewhere. The only way it could happen is if the contractor provided a "refund" to the government for that material. That is probably the reason it was "easier" to just toss them.

Many of these laws are in place because someone abused the system at one time and it was deemed an issue so they made more and more red tape to prevent this abuse. This is part of the procedures that need to be fixed that lead to the efficiencies we see.

These are quite dumb when you are just trying to save money and get the job done well. Problem is not everyone does it because of the right reason and they take advantage of these things for their personal benefit. The bad apples ruin the efficiency/savings that could be done by quality compainies/people trying to do the right thing.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

I know this has been brought up before, but I do love the amount of posting in this thread during the workday by private employees complaining about how inefficient government workers are

Different motivation. My company can go out of business if we don't make a profit. We have to run lean. Gub agencies often blow grant money because if they don't, they won't get it the next year. That's wasteful of taxpayer money.

my father use to manage construction crews for the state of NY. He came from a civilian background and use to own and operate many businesses, mainly in route services.
He would tell me stories of guys who would loaf around on projects causing them to take 2-3x as long bc they were at a certain "level" and couldnt be touched. Dude who would be on a ladder and drop a new box of screws, ony to have a brand new one handed to them while the spilt ones just got swept up. We did our driveway in cobble stones one year b/c the contact from the state was to rip up perfectly good ones and just toss them (my father and I rescued them from the dumpster).

My father even went to his supervisors and offered to write a database for leftover material from completed jobs so they could be used on new jobs and they flat out told him, no. It was easier to just toss what was left and buy new.

These may have been small instances in the grand scheme of things, but compound his department over every other dept's like his in the sate and you get massive waste.

There are so many tales like this, it is just maddening. And why, quite frankly, I can't get a whole lot of sympathy going for a whole lot of these employees, except some of the teachers that might depend on grants and / or funding to keep their job. And you know that if that is the attitude with material it is the same with personal.

Maybe someone can educate me, but I can't remember the last time a union or group of government employees made an effort to curb all this waste. Maybe said this rule or that rule could be changed to make things more efficient. And, like, push for it. Someone is poking at the anthill now and they are indignant even though the organization they work for is $34 Trillion in debt. Still haven't heard anything like, hey let's try and make this more efficient and we can save some of these jobs and keep this important work going.

 

[Sleestak]

DoD going to be next with the probationary employees getting fired.

https://wapo.st/41pS3ZV

MF. I'm going to lose an absolute upcoming rock star, forever, because reasons.

 

[the moops]

And why, quite frankly, I can't get a whole lot of sympathy going for a whole lot of these employees,

Read some of the stories. If you don't feel sympathy for many of them you are lacking

 

[-OZ-]

DoD going to be next with the probationary employees getting fired.

https://wapo.st/41pS3ZV

MF. I'm going to lose an absolute upcoming rock star, forever, because reasons.

Yep. Not only will we lose good people directly, this isn’t setting good work conditions for those remaining.

 

[Sleestak]

I know this has been brought up before, but I do love the amount of posting in this thread during the workday by private employees complaining about how inefficient government workers are

Different motivation. My company can go out of business if we don't make a profit. We have to run lean. Gub agencies often blow grant money because if they don't, they won't get it the next year. That's wasteful of taxpayer money.

my father use to manage construction crews for the state of NY. He came from a civilian background and use to own and operate many businesses, mainly in route services.
He would tell me stories of guys who would loaf around on projects causing them to take 2-3x as long bc they were at a certain "level" and couldnt be touched. Dude who would be on a ladder and drop a new box of screws, ony to have a brand new one handed to them while the spilt ones just got swept up. We did our driveway in cobble stones one year b/c the contact from the state was to rip up perfectly good ones and just toss them (my father and I rescued them from the dumpster).

My father even went to his supervisors and offered to write a database for leftover material from completed jobs so they could be used on new jobs and they flat out told him, no. It was easier to just toss what was left and buy new.

These may have been small instances in the grand scheme of things, but compound his department over every other dept's like his in the sate and you get massive waste.

There are so many tales like this, it is just maddening. And why, quite frankly, I can't get a whole lot of sympathy going for a whole lot of these employees, except some of the teachers that might depend on grants and / or funding to keep their job. And you know that if that is the attitude with material it is the same with personal.

Maybe someone can educate me, but I can't remember the last time a union or group of government employees made an effort to curb all this waste. Maybe said this rule or that rule could be changed to make things more efficient. And, like, push for it. Someone is poking at the anthill now and they are indignant even though the organization they work for is $34 Trillion in debt. Still haven't heard anything like, hey let's try and make this more efficient and we can save some of these jobs and keep this important work going.

Pentagon (aka Govvies) has asked to cancel useless programs. Congress (aka the people) say no.

 

[Sleestak]

DoD going to be next with the probationary employees getting fired.

https://wapo.st/41pS3ZV

MF. I'm going to lose an absolute upcoming rock star, forever, because reasons.

Yep. Not only will we lose good people directly, this isn’t setting good work conditions for those remaining.

Break it. Declare it useless. Sell it off.

 

[Gally]

There are so many tales like this, it is just maddening. And why, quite frankly, I can't get a whole lot of sympathy going for a whole lot of these employees, except some of the teachers that might depend on grants and / or funding to keep their job. And you know that if that is the attitude with material it is the same with personal.

It is this way because people abused the system so they made laws/rules to prevent it from happening. Material was purchased by the government. It is now the government's even if it is not used. If the contractor wants to re-use that material on a different job then must provide the government a refund on that material and most contractors don't want to give money back.

The reason the rule is that way in the first place is because in the past contractors would bid a project with more material than needed. The government would pay for it and then the contractor would have "free" material that wasn't used to use on another non-government job (or government job) and get paid twice for the material. Legitimate reasons for the laws to be put in place.

However, it ties your hands because of the bureaucracy in place to avoid waste when it was a legit oversight for the excess material. Couple that with other contractors then complaining if one company were to get away with this type of thing and leads to more and more red tape to get anything awarded or completed. It's a viscous circle.

 

[-OZ-]

DoD going to be next with the probationary employees getting fired.

https://wapo.st/41pS3ZV

MF. I'm going to lose an absolute upcoming rock star, forever, because reasons.

Yep. Not only will we lose good people directly, this isn’t setting good work conditions for those remaining.

Break it. Declare it useless. Sell it off.

I’m pretty sure nobody wants to break what my office does. Except maybe the Russians and Chinese. But

 

[-OZ-]

but I can't remember the last time a union or group of government employees made an effort to curb all this waste.

DOD has tried multiple times to end programs and weapon systems. But that would cost jobs in a district so…

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

There are so many tales like this, it is just maddening. And why, quite frankly, I can't get a whole lot of sympathy going for a whole lot of these employees, except some of the teachers that might depend on grants and / or funding to keep their job. And you know that if that is the attitude with material it is the same with personal.

It is this way because people abused the system so they made laws/rules to prevent it from happening. Material was purchased by the government. It is now the government's even if it is not used. If the contractor wants to re-use that material on a different job then must provide the government a refund on that material and most contractors don't want to give money back.

The reason the rule is that way in the first place is because in the past contractors would bid a project with more material than needed. The government would pay for it and then the contractor would have "free" material that wasn't used to use on another non-government job (or government job) and get paid twice for the material. Legitimate reasons for the laws to be put in place.

However, it ties your hands because of the bureaucracy in place to avoid waste when it was a legit oversight for the excess material. Couple that with other contractors then complaining if one company were to get away with this type of thing and leads to more and more red tape to get anything awarded or completed. It's a viscous circle.

I get it, but if you had open bidding on a job and lowest bidder won the job, why does the government care what material a contractor might buy and what else it does with it. The government should be buying the final product like private companies and people do and not care about, within reason, where or how much material is bought by a contractor, assuming the final project matches job specs and finish quality. If government can't exist without being taken advantage of I can't think of a better argument for small government.

 

[glvsav37]

We know the answer, and it can't be discussed here.

The answer is because federal jobs are almost always lower paying and in exchange for that you get the comfort of job security. Everybody knows you can be fired in the private sector on a whim but for the same type of jobs you are generally getting 30-40% more in pay. This kind of mass layoff being handled in such a poor fashion has never been the case for government jobs.

unfortunately, that lower pay and job security often = lack of motivation, passing the responsibilities and CYA type of work. I dont mean to include every gov't employee, but the sentiment is rampant. Look at how amazing your experience is at the DMV or trying to get through to the state taxation department and speaking to someone with 1/2 a brain.

Plus with the budget of the US tax payer behind them, they can generally add staff vs expecting current employees to be motivated enough to take on new roles or responsibilities. For the most part, they exchanged that lower pay scale to not have to worry about doing above and beyond.

I see it at the local consumer level as a resident (DMV), as a business owner at the state level, and as the husband of a teacher in the state system and watching what her union and district does to "solve problems." and their "not my job" response to certain issues. As a business owner its maddening.

But I still stand by my answer to the OP as it refers to the "high outrage meter" from the media and representatives being 100% political opposition based and off the table for discussion here.

 

[Mookie]

I see a lot of mentions of "bloat", "inefficiency", "waste" etc. and a lot of anecdotal evidence, but are there any studies or analyses that provide a factual basis for these across the board cuts?

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

And why, quite frankly, I can't get a whole lot of sympathy going for a whole lot of these employees,

Read some of the stories. If you don't feel sympathy for many of them you are lacking

I have been fired 3 times in my life, two for cause, one because the boss did not like me. No one ever gave a flipping flip. People get fired every day, get up and move on.

In November my company lost a job that would have increased our yearly revenue by 15% because I could not get sufficient manpower on a job site for a week, despite being given only two days to do so. That was because the job that had been delayed three weeks because of permitting problems in the city office. The plan reviewer had ignored / blocked / not seen the relevant email sent from the general contractor with the information needed to give final approval so the job could continue to go forward, despite multiple calls and meetings with said general contractor. If it had been addressed even within a week I wouldn't have been obligated to a different customer and could have gotten the first stage of the job done, thereby keeping the job. I didn't get any sympathy from the plan reviewer or an apology on the poor performance he displayed. Now I will grant you that was a city and not a U.S. Government employee, but the disregard for the public welfare a lot of government employees have displayed over the years is coming home to roost.

AND, the organization these people work for is $34 trillion in debt. It cannot go one without ending in a massive economic collapse that would engulf everyone. Good and bad people are going to have to lose their job to get things under control and maybe change the attitude of government employees. If your argument is we shouldn't be doing this because people who have had 20 years of comfort are being made uncomfortable, I'm sorry but that isn't going to fly with the rest of us who have been on the outside and are now threatened by this massive debt. Blame all the crappy congress people and presidents that got us to this point. But don't run some con job where we can't do anything because people are going to lose their jobs. When even here in this thread you have government employees acknowledging the outright inefficiency of the organization they work for. Grow up and be a flipping adult for crimeny sakes.

 

[the moops]

Nobody at work has my personal cell or email. If they fire me, they can send me mail at home — they have my home address. They could knock on the door.

But they don’t have anything else, and that’s by my choice.

HR doesn't have contact info for anyone in case of emergency? Or a personal email address you used when you applied? Or phone number you used to have first phone conversation with your potential employer?

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

but I can't remember the last time a union or group of government employees made an effort to curb all this waste.

DOD has tried multiple times to end programs and weapon systems. But that would cost jobs in a district so…

Well, thank goodness we have a political movement that has the momentum to try and address the problems. The problem isn't the public demanding some accountability and reasonableness be put in place, it is the people trying to stop it at all costs.

 

[Gally]

There are so many tales like this, it is just maddening. And why, quite frankly, I can't get a whole lot of sympathy going for a whole lot of these employees, except some of the teachers that might depend on grants and / or funding to keep their job. And you know that if that is the attitude with material it is the same with personal.

It is this way because people abused the system so they made laws/rules to prevent it from happening. Material was purchased by the government. It is now the government's even if it is not used. If the contractor wants to re-use that material on a different job then must provide the government a refund on that material and most contractors don't want to give money back.

The reason the rule is that way in the first place is because in the past contractors would bid a project with more material than needed. The government would pay for it and then the contractor would have "free" material that wasn't used to use on another non-government job (or government job) and get paid twice for the material. Legitimate reasons for the laws to be put in place.

However, it ties your hands because of the bureaucracy in place to avoid waste when it was a legit oversight for the excess material. Couple that with other contractors then complaining if one company were to get away with this type of thing and leads to more and more red tape to get anything awarded or completed. It's a viscous circle.

I get it, but if you had open bidding on a job and lowest bidder won the job, why does the government care what material a contractor might buy and what else it does with it. The government should be buying the final product like private companies and people do and not care about, within reason, where or how much material is bought by a contractor, assuming the final project matches job specs and finish quality. If government can't exist without being taken advantage of I can't think of a better argument for small government.

You do have open bidding and it typically goes to the lowest bidder (unless there is a reason not to go to the lowest) but that doesn't mean that things weren't happening that led to people taking advantage that then got flagged and others deeming that if the government paid for it (materials) it's the government's property etc.

I am not saying it is the best way. I am actually agreeing with you. I am just telling you the bureaucracy that gets in the way because rules/laws had to be made to prevent fraud from taking place. This goes back to my comment upthread. Rather than dumping a bunch of people, you need to fix the procedures/rules/etc first. Getting rid of people without fixing these type things will only lead to more issues and problems. Much of the bloat of people is to manage the unrelenting bureaucracy you have to cut through to get anything done. Fix that first.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

We know the answer, and it can't be discussed here.

The answer is because federal jobs are almost always lower paying and in exchange for that you get the comfort of job security. Everybody knows you can be fired in the private sector on a whim but for the same type of jobs you are generally getting 30-40% more in pay. This kind of mass layoff being handled in such a poor fashion has never been the case for government jobs.

unfortunately, that lower pay and job security often = lack of motivation, passing the responsibilities and CYA type of work. I dont mean to include every gov't employee, but the sentiment is rampant. Look at how amazing your experience is at the DMV or trying to get through to the state taxation department and speaking to someone with 1/2 a brain.

Plus with the budget of the US tax payer behind them, they can generally add staff vs expecting current employees to be motivated enough to take on new roles or responsibilities. For the most part, they exchanged that lower pay scale to not have to worry about doing above and beyond.

I see it at the local consumer level as a resident (DMV), as a business owner at the state level, and as the husband of a teacher in the state system and watching what her union and district does to "solve problems." and their "not my job" response to certain issues. As a business owner its maddening.

But I still stand by my answer to the OP as it refers to the "high outrage meter" from the media and representatives being 100% political opposition based and off the table for discussion here.

Amen brother, amen.

 

[Capella]

AND, the organization these people work for is $34 trillion in debt. It cannot go one without ending in a massive economic collapse that would engulf everyone. Good and bad people are going to have to lose their job to get things under control

See the thing about this argument is government salaries are like 4% of the federal budget. For everybody. So what are you really saving. Nobody wants to cut defense spending or other areas where the real problems are. Federal employees are easy marks but cutting them simply are not solving any problems at all.

 

[Capella]

Look at how amazing your experience is at the DMV or trying to get through to the state taxation department and speaking to someone with 1/2 a brain.

You are talking about state level jobs. DMVs historically under staffed but are not federal jobs.

Again everybody here would admit the feds are over staffed in some places. That’s not the argument.

And every experience I’ve had with my dad at the VA was A++++++. I’m sure many agencies are difficult.

 

[Riffraff]

I have been fired 3 times in my life, two for cause, one because the boss did not like me. No one ever gave a flipping flip. People get fired every day, get up and move on.

Now imagine you are one of the many disabled employees. Would you think finding a job is so easy?

---

Federal employees with disabilities are worried and scared about gutting of workforce​

One of the largest employers of people with disabilities in this country is the federal government.

 

[Mookie]

Look at how amazing your experience is at the DMV or trying to get through to the state taxation department and speaking to someone with 1/2 a brain.

You are talking about state level jobs. DMVs historically under staffed but are not federal jobs.

Again everybody here would admit the feds are over staffed in some places. That’s not the argument.

And every experience I’ve had with my dad at the VA was A++++++. I’m sure many agencies are difficult.

Our County DMV has gone to an appointment system, but they still make time for walk ins. Wait times are negligible. It's really efficient, but that doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[Ilov80s]

I have been fired 3 times in my life, two for cause, one because the boss did not like me. No one ever gave a flipping flip. People get fired every day, get up and move on.

Now imagine you are one of the many disabled employees. Would you think finding a job is so easy?

---

Federal employees with disabilities are worried and scared about gutting of workforce​

One of the largest employers of people with disabilities in this country is the federal government.

I would think a significant chunk of that are disabled veterans but that's just a guess. Anyone know?

 

[Ilov80s]

Look at how amazing your experience is at the DMV or trying to get through to the state taxation department and speaking to someone with 1/2 a brain.

You are talking about state level jobs. DMVs historically under staffed but are not federal jobs.

Again everybody here would admit the feds are over staffed in some places. That’s not the argument.

And every experience I’ve had with my dad at the VA was A++++++. I’m sure many agencies are difficult.

Our County DMV has gone to an appointment system, but they still make time for walk ins. Wait times are negligible. It's really efficient, but that doesn't fit the narrative.

Same here, it's actually pretty efficient. You also can get in line from your phone and they text you when you're getting close.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

AND, the organization these people work for is $34 trillion in debt. It cannot go one without ending in a massive economic collapse that would engulf everyone. Good and bad people are going to have to lose their job to get things under control

See the thing about this argument is government salaries are like 4% of the federal budget. For everybody. So what are you really saving. Nobody wants to cut defense spending or other areas where the real problems are. Federal employees are easy marks but cutting them simply are not solving any problems at all.

Made this point before but it was too "political". Tread carefully capella.