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Greatest Football Player??? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ZenoRazon
- Start date
joey
Footballguy
Ah. So it is Greatest Jack of All Trades which, I think you can see by most of the people replying to this thread, is not how many have interpreted the thread title.
To me, and we'll see if others agree, the Greatest Football Player is the player who you think would have the most positive effect on winning the game. Brady has proven to be that guy.
If you truly want the best Jack of All Trades, I don't think the thread title is doing you any favors.
ETA: I see that Anarchy suggested the same thread title change at the top of page 2 of this thread, so sorry for the repeat, but I think you can see a trend here....
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Do you think Rocky Marciano is knocking out these guys today and going 48-0?
Do you think Jesse Owens is beating these guys today, talking......high school kids.
How would Jim Brown do today?
How about Otto Graham, Don Hutson, THE FEARSOME FOURSOME, John Unitas?
It's never ever about.....could they play/fight/run today...never~~~~
Bill Dudley totally dominated every football game he ever played in, he was all over the place, he did it all. When he did that a total non factor.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
If Jesse Owens was born in 2000 and given access to all the training, nutrition and equipment that modern runners get than I think he would be a top level Olympic athlete. If trained and educated as QBs are today than Unitas would be a modern All Pro. If Bill Dudley was given all the modern training, nutrition, etc. than I think he would probably be a very good to great WR, KR/PR or CB. The list of guys who could play NFL WR, KR/PR or CB is a very long list.
The thread title is totally right on the money. The Greatest Football player fits perfectly.
How can a guy who can't block, tackle, catch, run, be a better "football player" than someone who can?
Tom Brady can't block, can't actually run, can't actually catch, can't tackle, can't do much of anything on a fotball field other than throw a football, how can this be a great football player?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Because football is a very specialized sport at the upper levels and quarterback is the most important position. Seems crazy to say someone can't be the best player ever because they play the most important position.
Jesse Owens ran at a time when we saw very few African Americans in track, so to say he could do this that once that changed, really can't do it. Would he have been all that competing against a stiffer level of competition back then?
The bottom like however is all that really matters is that dominance of era.
This seasons Clemson football team would have destroyed those Lombardi Packer teams, way too big and fast. But....simply doesn't matter.
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Let's do this....
Tom Brady shows up for your team, he doesn't want to play QB, so where do you put him?
Now what kind of...football player...is Tom Brady?
There stands Deion Sanders, now how many ways can you use him?
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Owens had world records last for as long as 25 years. I don't know how long it took for the Olympics to fully accept black athletes but Owens was good enough to stand up for quite some time. I am noy trying to take away from 1930s NFL players but if we acknowledge that they would get steamrolled by modern college teams, how can we say they were greatest of all time?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Again, you are talking about who is the most versatile football player. Of course Brady can only play 1 position and Deion could play half a dozen. Is Dede Westbrook better than Brady because Westbrook could play WR, KR, PR, RB, CB or S better than Brady?
joey
Footballguy
Owens was first and foremost a long jumper, there his 26-8 is STILL a world class leap. But.....his sprinting wouldn't hold up today.
All Time....is about dominance of era, not about who could play today.
Are those Lombardi Packer teams FAR FAR more revered than this seasons Card team, of course. Why?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That is fine if you want to crown a 170 pound guy as the greatest football player ever. It's your personal choice.
I was also alone on an island with....
The Jets win this....SBIII
The Chiefs win this...SBIV
Keep an eye on this kid from Western Alabama Tyreek Hill.
Keep an eye on this kid from Helix HS Reggie Bush.
I like lonely islands,
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Bush was a 5 star recruit and #1 RB in the country at Helix HS. How was that a lonely island?
He's in the Hall of Fame, NCAA and NFL.
So I'm not the only one seeing...IT...ok?
The guy did it all, how can that be down played?
Zeno logic is this.....
You don't talk QB's if the discussion is Greatest Football Player, they don't belong in that discussion, their job isn't about that.
Sanders the greatest.....did I really just see that....RB. But not close to being The Greatest Football Player.
Tau837
Footballguy
Jim Thorpe >>>>> Dudley
From his HOF bio: "...there is no question he was superb in every way. He could run with speed as well as bruising power. He could pass and catch passes with the best, punt long distances and kick field goals either by dropkick or placekick... He blocked with authority and, on defense, was a bone-jarring tackler."
He also played MLB and won the Olympic decathlon and pentathlon in 1912.
/thread
Ok, let's compare their NFL stats, go ahead.
But.....you are on the right track now.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Again, seems ridiculous to talk greatest football players ever and remove the most important position.
I don't know but I bet a lot of people who follow high school football and college recruiting know. He probably has a Youtube video with hundreds of thousands of views.
I never said the guy wasn't good. Just saying he isn't the greatest football player in history no matter how well he could block 190 pound linebackers or tackle 175 pound backs.
Actually it seems ridiculous to talk a guy who can't block, catch, run, kick, tackle as a GREAT football player.
joey
Footballguy
Gene Mingo was a Denver Broncos.
All he did was.....
rushing...777 yds
receiving....454 yds
passing....200 yds
kick ret...740 yds
punt ret....214 yds
PAT..215 pts
FG...112pts
Now how valuable is a guy like that on any football team?
Wiki
Eugene L. Mingo (born September 22, 1938) is a former professional American football player from Akron, Ohio, who played several positions including halfback, placekicker, and return specialist. He is widely recognized as the first African American placekicker in American football.
In 1960, he had the first punt return for a touchdown in the American Football League, for the Denver Broncos. That touchdown won the first-ever American Football League game, as the Broncos defeated the Boston Patriots. Mingo also scored the first points in Mile High Stadium, then called Bears Stadium, with an 18-yard field goal. In the 1961 season opener at War Memorial Stadium against the Buffalo Bills, Mingo threw a touchdown pass, from the halfback position, to help the Broncos win 22-10: a 50-yarder to Lionel Taylor in the first quarter. Mingo kicked the PATs after each score. He led the American Football League in scoring as a rookie in 1960 with 123 points and in 1962 with 137 points. Mingo holds the Broncos' franchise record for the longest touchdown run, an 82-yarder against the Raiders in 1962. He also played for the Oakland Raiders, Miami Dolphins, and Washington Redskins. He kicked for the Pittsburgh Steelers in 1969 and 1970.
On September 14, 2014, Mingo, along with Dan Reeves and Rick Upchurch, was inducted into the Broncos Ring of Fame.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is a great football player.
All he did was.....
rushing...777 yds
receiving....454 yds
passing....200 yds
kick ret...740 yds
punt ret....214 yds
PAT..215 pts
FG...112pts
Now how valuable is a guy like that on any football team?
Wiki
Eugene L. Mingo (born September 22, 1938) is a former professional American football player from Akron, Ohio, who played several positions including halfback, placekicker, and return specialist. He is widely recognized as the first African American placekicker in American football.
In 1960, he had the first punt return for a touchdown in the American Football League, for the Denver Broncos. That touchdown won the first-ever American Football League game, as the Broncos defeated the Boston Patriots. Mingo also scored the first points in Mile High Stadium, then called Bears Stadium, with an 18-yard field goal. In the 1961 season opener at War Memorial Stadium against the Buffalo Bills, Mingo threw a touchdown pass, from the halfback position, to help the Broncos win 22-10: a 50-yarder to Lionel Taylor in the first quarter. Mingo kicked the PATs after each score. He led the American Football League in scoring as a rookie in 1960 with 123 points and in 1962 with 137 points. Mingo holds the Broncos' franchise record for the longest touchdown run, an 82-yarder against the Raiders in 1962. He also played for the Oakland Raiders, Miami Dolphins, and Washington Redskins. He kicked for the Pittsburgh Steelers in 1969 and 1970.
On September 14, 2014, Mingo, along with Dan Reeves and Rick Upchurch, was inducted into the Broncos Ring of Fame.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is a great football player.
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You're mixing athleticism and being the best football player ever.
Just stop. The only answer is Brady.
And you aren't getting this is about a guy who can play football, which takes a lot of different skills. Brady can't do anything other than throw, how does that stack up vs a guy who can throw and do everything else?
What can Brady do for your football team compared to Julian Edelman who was a QB at Kent State.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
I get all that and he is without question the greatest....QB....of all time. But he isn't even the best....football player....on the Pats.
Here is a guy in a debate about this...
Conor Orr
Writer | NFL.com
+ Follow On Twitter
Don Hutson was decades ahead of his time -- and a force on both sides of the ball
No. That title belongs to former Packers split end Don Hutson, who led the league in receiving touchdowns in nine of his 11 seasons. Back in 1942, with the passing game still in its infancy, Hutson put up 74 catches for 1,211 yards and 17 touchdowns. He averaged more than 110 yards per game in that season of absolute dominance. In Hutson's time with Green Bay, the Packers won three championships, and he also played defense and was their primary kicker. Hutson had 30 career interceptions, including eight in 1943 -- the same year he posted double-digit touchdowns for the third time.
The eight-time first-team All-Pro was also an important mind in the development of modern NFL routes and passing concepts -- many of which Brady relies on to succeed today.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Notice how he mentions multi talented.
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Coach...so, you wanna play football, huh?
Tom..yes sir.
Coach...can you kick?
Tom...nope!
Coach...run?
Tom...nay~~~~
Coach...how about....catch?
Tom....nope~
Coach...block? tackle?
Tom...ah...no and no.
Coach...ok Tom so what can you do?
Tom...throw.
Coach....a QB then, cool.
Tom...I know.
Tom..yes sir.
Coach...can you kick?
Tom...nope!
Coach...run?
Tom...nay~~~~
Coach...how about....catch?
Tom....nope~
Coach...block? tackle?
Tom...ah...no and no.
Coach...ok Tom so what can you do?
Tom...throw.
Coach....a QB then, cool.
Tom...I know.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
A team full of Saquon Barkleys or Calvin Johnsons was my initial reaction for a cloned team. Size-speed-athletic freaks among a league of freaks.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Barkley ran 4.40, Calvin ran 4.35. I know Bo had a hand timed 4.13 but I don't really buy that he was that much faster than anyone of the modern era. It's most likely Bo was running in the 4.3 range
Jackson was a 10.33 100m man, he ran a 9.5 yards in HS. He was on a whole other level speed wish and look a how he was built, he could man handle most RB/WR.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Do we have a TON of track athletes who excell at a multitude of events?
NFL WR Renaldo Nehemiah could...
110hh....one of the best ever
long jump
100
200
run legs on both relays
Could help score 60 points.
Men-in-Cleats
Footballguy
If that is all you think that a quarterback does then you are hopeless. Nothing like taking the most important position in the game and oversimplifying it to one single part of the role. If all it took was passing the football then Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell would be in your conversation. The quarterback has to know every other single player's role in a play from the blocking assignments to the routes being run, read what the defense is doing, and make spur of the moment decisions based on it. They are often changing plays at the line of scrimmage based on defensive alignment. You hold it against someone like Brady based on your own example of him not being able to play a role down in the trenches yet you list nobody on your list that could do those things in the era that Brady is playing in. Hell, in the 1940's Tom might have been able to bulk up and play defense, who knows? Can any of the guys you listed other than Baugh play the QB position and do it well at the pro level? If they could they probably would have done so as there is always a shortage of good QB's in the NFL.
Men-in-Cleats
Footballguy
His best season on offense he got a little over 15 touches per game for 65 yards per game. With that level of dominance he is surely the best player of all time. Throw in him making 50% of his career field goals and you are totally blowing us away. Add in a little under two punt returns per game and a touch over one kick return per game and nobody was dominant like this guy. Maybe I'm overlooking his 81 pass completions or 36.5% of the ones he threw. Pro football reference doesn't have tackling stats on there so hard to evaluate that angle but I'm sure the numbers are astronomical like his offensive ones. From what I've seen though, this guy's own mom wouldn't have put him on her list for best football player of all time.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ignore how flawed your premise is, I think I have a great answer:
Cam Newton. Run your tests:
Can he throw? Yes, has a rocket launcher for an arm
Can he run? Yes he’s on off the chart athlete
Can he tackle and block? He’s 6’5” 258, hes built like a DE so yeah he can hit
Can he catch? I’m sure and I bet he would be especially good at catching balls in the end zone.
He really can do it all.
Cam Newton. Run your tests:
Can he throw? Yes, has a rocket launcher for an arm
Can he run? Yes he’s on off the chart athlete
Can he tackle and block? He’s 6’5” 258, hes built like a DE so yeah he can hit
Can he catch? I’m sure and I bet he would be especially good at catching balls in the end zone.
He really can do it all.
