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Guy records DUI stop, Cops not happy, video explodes (1 Viewer)

Good for the kid. He was trying to prove a point and did so very well: Some police are either ignorant of the law they are sworn to uphold or are aware of it and are still content to trample it. Neither of which is good, considering the government has a monopoly on using legitimate physical force to enforce its order and the police are at the front lines of this enforcement. The police hold a ton of power that others don't which requires a ton of responsibility to use that power appropriately...and legally. The government is supposed to work for the people, not the other way around, so I don't have a problem when the people make sure the government is doing its job properly.

I applaud all police who do follow the law and don't try to bully someone acting within their rights.

 
If I am pulled over for speeding, do the cops have the right to search me and my car?
Any cop worth his salt will tell you he not only has the right to search your car, particularly under the hood, but he also has the right to take it out for a test drive to make sure it's safe to be on the road.
 
It is one thing to know your rights and want to protect them, but it is another (imo) to purposefully bait the cops to infringe upon those rights. One is standing up for your rights, the other is looking for a fight.

If the cop had IMMEDIATELY been hostile and puffy-chested then, by all means do the "Johnny Activist" dance, but pulling up to the checkpoint with the full intention of trying to bait the cop into becoming aggressive is juvenile.

 
Out of the 3 million views, I'll bet there are some cops that saw this and told themselves that they should be more careful. All and all, a fine day's work for dooshnoozle Johnny Activist.

 
Out of the 3 million views, I'll bet there are some cops that saw this and told themselves that they should be more careful. All and all, a fine day's work for dooshnoozle Johnny Activist.
While there are some bad cops, I think most of them have it in them to act professionally--even to see the humor in what's happening. One video was posted earlier where the driver pulled up and started asking the immigration agent whether he was a US citizen. He just laughed and told the driver to move on.

 
Zow said:
Steve Tasker said:
Serious question - if a cop asks to search your car and you say no, what's to stop them from saying they smell drugs or making up some other kind of BS to justify reasonable suspicion to legally search your car without your consent? Other than personal integrity, I mean.
Well, really not too much. Generally, one would think the threat of potentially losing his job by lying over a simple traffic stop and search is enough deterrent. That said I've had several cases (mostly with undocumented hispanics on drug corridors) where I strongly doubted the cop's claim that my client "consented" to a search (be it for the language barrier, my client's insistence, etc.) but I'm stuck with the uphill battle of risking cutting of plea negotiations by filing a motion to suppress and then, if I do file one, being in the unenviable position of trying to convince a judge that a cop in a fancy uniform is lying and my undocumented client transporting pounds of meth is not.
I think this is really my problem with the whole thing - that a police officer could potentially do whatever he wants without any real consequences. I've heard enough horror stories over the years about incidents covered-up and swept under the rug that I have no doubt that in many instances a police officer could quite literally do pretty much whatever he wants (save for very extreme crimes) with no repurcussions.I give the driver in the video some credit for having some balls to stand up and film the cops acting unethically, but in the grand scheme of things, it's really just easier to not stand up and fight. If I get pulled over and have nothing illegal in my car, and the cop asks to search it, my options are (1) refuse to consent to a search and risk the cop being a #### like in the OP's video, having my car scratched up, having the cop find some BS reasonable cause reason to search and tear up my car, or (2) just let him look through the car and find nothing. While #2 is indeed giving up my rights, the worst case scenario is that he ruffles through some bags and lets me go after wasting a few minutes of my time. The worst case scenario of #1 is a lot worse, and if I want any sort of legal recourse, I need to somehow convince the justice system that I was right and the cop was in the wrong. Maybe the cop acts ethically and lets me go, but maybe he doesn't.

It's not worth the time or the effort for Joe Schmoe. I wish that wasn't the case and I hate the trampling of our civil rights as much as the next guy, but that's kinda how I see it, sadly. It's a defeatist attitude, but a realistic one.
Worst case in #2 is that the cop "finds" a bag of weed. Or, finds a bag of weed someone tossed into my car without my knowledge.
 
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Another thing I don't understand:

Why does it matter if the kid was a huge doosh or not? I'm upset with how the police acted. I don't really care how some college kid acted, because he has no authority. With authority comes responsibility, and cops have it, and we can't have them abusing it.

I don't expect a college kid to act utterly responsible all the time. Policemen, by virtue of their very important job to uphold the law and keep social order, absolutely, completely must follow the law. They can't let themselves get upset by some college kid like this.

The problem is not that a college kid was a ##### or not - the problem is that people in authority who are sworn to uphold the law of the land are abusing their power because they didn't like how someone treated them. That's worth talking about. A college kid acting rebellious isn't.

 
It is one thing to know your rights and want to protect them, but it is another (imo) to purposefully bait the cops to infringe upon those rights. One is standing up for your rights, the other is looking for a fight.

If the cop had IMMEDIATELY been hostile and puffy-chested then, by all means do the "Johnny Activist" dance, but pulling up to the checkpoint with the full intention of trying to bait the cop into becoming aggressive is juvenile.
True, the cop wasn't immediately hostile. He just became immediately hostile and aggressive once the driver said "this is fine, sir." Who can blame the cop for getting hostile and aggressive in response to someone saying "this is fine, sir?". Hell, I'm surprised the cop was able to control himself as much as he was.

 
SayWhat? said:
Yes, the right to not roll your window down so that the officer can clearly hear you and see your actions is such a treasured one. I'm all for knowing your rights and standing firm on those rights. But this kid had nothing to worry about and he was indeed being a doosh (yes, I'll continue to call him for what he is) when he certainly didn't need to be. The cop doesn't get a free pass because he was a doosh too and took things too far. While I'm not excusing his actions, it wouldn't have gotten there if the kid would've just respectfully rolled down his window when asked.

Maybe I'm not jaded towards the police because I've always tried to obey the law, been respectful, and never had law enforcement treat me with anything other than the same. Once I feel like my rights have been violated, its quite possible my stance will change. Until then when I'm pulled over I'll continue to turn off the engine, roll down my window, put my hands on the stearing wheel, and not intentionally antagonize the officer unecessarily. They have enough crap to deal with as it is.
half the time they want to have your window down so they can further violate your rights. Cops have been caught using illegal searches that people don't even know are occurring. Ever had a Flashlight 'waved in your car, ostensibly to shine light? Odds are decent it had a BAC meter sweeping the car for 'alcohol' http://www.statecollege.com/news/local-news/alcoholdetecting-flashlights-introduced-in-state-college-dui-enforcement-888285/

No discernment between methyl or ethyl alcohol, or car fresheners, or perfume cologne, or acetone etc. And if that happens then officer numnuts here will pull you over (even if on way to a meeting/deadline/anywhere) and put you through the third degree, without any concern for your rights. You have to safeguard them., because the police can't be trusted to play fair any more. they are legally allowed to lie to you and threaten you, usually before they have any Probable cause. So why are you being such a submissive ##### again? this isn't communist china, or north korea, it's ####### America so be patriotic and tell the state to shove it if you've done nothing wrong that they know of. Ever hear of the right against self incrimination? It's in the bill of rights.

Or you could just crack your window enough to reasonably conduct business with the officer instead of bending over.

 
It's pounded too much into our heads (and into cop's heads) that they are an authority to always be obeyed. People are being too sensitive towards the cops because they are socialized into that for so long.

Yeah, I respect what they do but they are merely citizens like us with a job we pay them for to enforce the law. They should know the law and the difference between someone operating within the law and someone who is not.

Sorry if you have to deal with a doosh who is obeying the law from time to time. You signed up to be a cop. I deal with dooshes all the time at work too.

 
Another thing I don't understand:

Why does it matter if the kid was a huge doosh or not? I'm upset with how the police acted. I don't really care how some college kid acted, because he has no authority. With authority comes responsibility, and cops have it, and we can't have them abusing it.

I don't expect a college kid to act utterly responsible all the time. Policemen, by virtue of their very important job to uphold the law and keep social order, absolutely, completely must follow the law. They can't let themselves get upset by some college kid like this.

The problem is not that a college kid was a ##### or not - the problem is that people in authority who are sworn to uphold the law of the land are abusing their power because they didn't like how someone treated them. That's worth talking about. A college kid acting rebellious isn't.
Exactly. How many people remember that Miranda was a horrible rapist. In criminal laws those setting the guidelines always aren't going to be perfect citizens. I don't get this need to have allegiance to the police. That's how I act in a third world nation without a constitution. here I don't need to kiss ### and say please because we all have rights, not just non-dooshes.

 
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Emerson Biggens said:
I guess I don't understand why people have problems with DUI checkpoints. If it gets one drunk idiot off the road or stops one person from having too many at a family party because he heard there would be checkpoints and he wants to be safe, then I don't see the issue.
:headbang:

or you could just move to Iran Singapore?

 
johnnycakes said:
mad sweeney said:
johnnycakes said:
Its 4th of July weekend, cops set up a DUI checkpoint to try to keep the road safe for everyone, and this kid decides to go out with his camcorder for no other reason than to assert his rights and give them a hard time. And some of you think the kid isn't a doosh?
You think he planned to get stuck at a DUI checkpoint? There's nothing to remotely suggest he did anything you just said. It takes about 5 seconds to set your phone on the passenger seat and record while you're waiting for the cop to come to your window when you get stuck at a checkpoint.

Oh, and all those cops giving this kid a hard time? None of them were keeping the road safe while they were harassing this kid.
Yes, I think the kid, along with other Libertarian Party members set out to make a point...and a video. they found a DUI checkpoint and decided to pull into it and exert their rights. I don't need someone else to tell me if that's what happened. I know that's what they did.
How do you feel about the legitimacy of secret shopper programs?

FWIW It doesn't say that's what they did, just that a bunch of them all planned to have cameras on should they encounter a DUI roadblock. Which these days is fairly high odds if you have the audacity to drive on thr 4th of july/NYE.

IF he did purposefully seek out a roadblock it just makes him that much more of a patriot in my book.

 
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http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/08/200030825/arrest-caught-on-google-glass-reignites-privacy-debate?utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20130708

Arrest Caught On Google Glass Reignites Privacy DebateThe Fourth of July holiday brought about another first for Google Glass, the computing device that you can wear on your face.

Chris Barrett, a documentary filmmaker and founder of PRServe.com, was wearing Glass for a fireworks show in Wildwood, N.J., when he happened upon a boardwalk brawl and subsequentarrest. He and the technology community that has been tracking notable Google Glass moments believe he recorded the first public arrest caught on the Glass' built-in camera.

"This video is proof that Google Glass will change citizen journalism forever," Barrett wrote on his YouTube page. While all citizen journalists armed with a camera or a smartphone could capture similar video, Barrett told VentureBeat that the fact the glasses were relatively unnoticeable made a big difference:

"I think if I had a bigger camera there, the kid would probably have punched me," Barrett told me. "But I was able to capture the action with Glass and I didn't have to hold up a cell phone and press record."

"What is interesting with Glass is that in tense situations, like, say, war reporting, your hands are free while you're shooting. You can use your hands to protect yourself. If I wanted to back away, I could do it without dropping my camera or stopping the recording. That's a big step in wearable computing," Barrett told NPR.




 
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It is one thing to know your rights and want to protect them, but it is another (imo) to purposefully bait the cops to infringe upon those rights. One is standing up for your rights, the other is looking for a fight.

If the cop had IMMEDIATELY been hostile and puffy-chested then, by all means do the "Johnny Activist" dance, but pulling up to the checkpoint with the full intention of trying to bait the cop into becoming aggressive is juvenile.
True, the cop wasn't immediately hostile. He just became immediately hostile and aggressive once the driver said "this is fine, sir." Who can blame the cop for getting hostile and aggressive in response to someone saying "this is fine, sir?". Hell, I'm surprised the cop was able to control himself as much as he was.
... and here lies the issue?

 
After reading every post in this thread I have come to a very severe and monumental conclusion. That is this: the words "doosh" "doosh-bag" and "doosh-baggery" are words that I am sure means something, of a derogative nature. Am I close? Or should I just stick with the OP response I was gonna use?

 
Pubic Disclosure: I am police officer and a Narcotics K9 Handler.

I don't like what I saw here.

In Washington State we don't have DUI checkpoints but Federal Law is the Federal Law. Az. vs Gant (2009) radically changed police officer's abilities to do warrantless searches and the police need one of several factors to affect a warrantless search.

1. Demonstrate an actual and continuing threat to their safety posed by an arrestee.

2. A need to preserve evidence related to the crime of arrest from tampering by the arrestee

3. In order to justify a warrantless vehicular search incident to arrest conducted after the vehicle's recent occupants have been arrested and secured.

The officer's on this video had none of the above and the caveat is for any of the above to be triggered, the subject needs to be under arrest which the driver in the video was not.

Regarding the K9 search, the videographer had some of his facts incorrect. He shows what he thinks is the dog alerting on the drivers side window and states handlers can coax a false response by putting their hand on a specific area. This is not true. We present our hands on the area we want searched and do it in a matter to get the best area coverage for the dog (we call it a search pattern). What we saw on the video was the dogs claws on the window as he jumped on then off the window. That was not an alert. Obviously the video only shows the drivers side window and the K9 officer apparently had an alert somewhere else which they deemed enough to enter the vehicle. But later in the video we see and hear a second officer make the comment that the K9 alert was a weak one. That's unacceptable in my opinion on the K9 officers part. Had a good alert been given by the dog, that would have triggered a warrant to be requested and signed off by a judge, not a warrantless search.

Bottom line, I don't like what I saw on this video and disagree on many levels the way the police handled this stop. I don't agree the driver was being a "#####". He knew his rights and politely challenged what he believed (and he was right) was unconstitutional.
:goodposting:
:goodposting:

Little drummer boys "single fathers need the overtime so allow some slack with your rights" shtick is entertaining despite clearly being a fishing trip at this point.
Holy crap icon's insane.

 
It's pounded too much into our heads (and into cop's heads) that they are an authority to always be obeyed. People are being too sensitive towards the cops because they are socialized into that for so long.

Yeah, I respect what they do but they are merely citizens like us with a job we pay them for to enforce the law. They should know the law and the difference between someone operating within the law and someone who is not.

Sorry if you have to deal with a doosh who is obeying the law from time to time. You signed up to be a cop. I deal with dooshes all the time at work too.
:goodposting:

 
It is one thing to know your rights and want to protect them, but it is another (imo) to purposefully bait the cops to infringe upon those rights. One is standing up for your rights, the other is looking for a fight.

If the cop had IMMEDIATELY been hostile and puffy-chested then, by all means do the "Johnny Activist" dance, but pulling up to the checkpoint with the full intention of trying to bait the cop into becoming aggressive is juvenile.
True, the cop wasn't immediately hostile. He just became immediately hostile and aggressive once the driver said "this is fine, sir." Who can blame the cop for getting hostile and aggressive in response to someone saying "this is fine, sir?". Hell, I'm surprised the cop was able to control himself as much as he was.
And roughly how far into the video was this?

 
It is one thing to know your rights and want to protect them, but it is another (imo) to purposefully bait the cops to infringe upon those rights. One is standing up for your rights, the other is looking for a fight.

If the cop had IMMEDIATELY been hostile and puffy-chested then, by all means do the "Johnny Activist" dance, but pulling up to the checkpoint with the full intention of trying to bait the cop into becoming aggressive is juvenile.
True, the cop wasn't immediately hostile. He just became immediately hostile and aggressive once the driver said "this is fine, sir." Who can blame the cop for getting hostile and aggressive in response to someone saying "this is fine, sir?". Hell, I'm surprised the cop was able to control himself as much as he was.
And roughly how far into the video was this?
Not sure in the video, but it was about 5-10 seconds into the encounter between the driver and the cop.

 
It is one thing to know your rights and want to protect them, but it is another (imo) to purposefully bait the cops to infringe upon those rights. One is standing up for your rights, the other is looking for a fight.

If the cop had IMMEDIATELY been hostile and puffy-chested then, by all means do the "Johnny Activist" dance, but pulling up to the checkpoint with the full intention of trying to bait the cop into becoming aggressive is juvenile.
True, the cop wasn't immediately hostile. He just became immediately hostile and aggressive once the driver said "this is fine, sir." Who can blame the cop for getting hostile and aggressive in response to someone saying "this is fine, sir?". Hell, I'm surprised the cop was able to control himself as much as he was.
And roughly how far into the video was this?
Not sure in the video, but it was about 5-10 seconds into the encounter between the driver and the cop.
But the window was fine,. They could easily talk to each other.

 
Nashville Attorney says what the officer did was OK:

An attorney out of Nashville, who leads the criminal defense section of Hollins, Raybin & Weissman, said everything Rutherford County Sheriff’s Deputy A.J. Ross did in the DUI checkpoint video that went viral over the Internet is constitutional.

David Raybin outlined why these sorts of roadblocks are constitutionally sound.

“I think (Chris Kalbaugh) was functionally challenging the roadblock or checkpoint,” Raybin said. “But that’s been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.”

In circumstances outside of a checkpoint, Raybin said, “a law enforcement officer may conduct a brief investigatory stop only if the officer has a reasonable suspicion based upon specific and articulable facts that a criminal offense has been, is being or is about to be committed.”

According to Raybin, in State v. Downey, the Tennessee Supreme Court, relying on decisions by the United States Supreme Court, recognized that “a roadblock seizure … is a departure from … fundamental constitutional principles because it permits officers to stop and question persons whose conduct is ordinary, innocent, and free from suspicion.”

However, Raybin said roadblocks are allowed if they are set up with public interest in mind and that “because of the high prevalence of people driving while intoxicated, the U.S. Supreme Court decided there was public interest in permitting DUI checkpoints.”

There are a few rules that must be followed when sobriety checkpoints are set up, Raybin said.

“The most important thing about the DUI checkpoint is that they must be done in a uniform way,” Raybin said. “If they ask one person to roll down their window, and not the next, that would be outside of their discretion. That is the simple component of these things.”

The officer at the roadblock cannot set the protocol, according to Raybin. “It has to be done by the sheriff or highway patrol in advance and followed in uniformity,” he said.

“The whole idea of checkpoints is something that was authorized by Supreme Court in the interest of public safety,” Raybin said. “Because we are in a car and using a public road, we don’t have the same degree of privacy as we do in our home.”

Raybin also said the deputy was not obligated to answer Kalbaugh’s question about whether he was being detained.

“Anytime you are pulled over,” he said, “legally that is a temporary detention. I don’t think the officer should have to say that.”

People need to understand how they should conduct themselves when they are approached by a police officer, Raybin added, saying that if Kalbaugh had just rolled his window down, the officer likely wouldn’t have reacted the way he did.
 
It is one thing to know your rights and want to protect them, but it is another (imo) to purposefully bait the cops to infringe upon those rights. One is standing up for your rights, the other is looking for a fight.

If the cop had IMMEDIATELY been hostile and puffy-chested then, by all means do the "Johnny Activist" dance, but pulling up to the checkpoint with the full intention of trying to bait the cop into becoming aggressive is juvenile.
True, the cop wasn't immediately hostile. He just became immediately hostile and aggressive once the driver said "this is fine, sir." Who can blame the cop for getting hostile and aggressive in response to someone saying "this is fine, sir?". Hell, I'm surprised the cop was able to control himself as much as he was.
And roughly how far into the video was this?
Not sure in the video, but it was about 5-10 seconds into the encounter between the driver and the cop.
But the window was fine,. They could easily talk to each other.
Yeah, but did you hear what the driver said? "This is fine, sir.". What a completely dooshy, impolite thing to say!

 
Can someone explain to me if it was legal for the cops to allow the dog to damage the vehicle? That doesn't feel right

 
Can someone explain to me if it was legal for the cops to allow the dog to damage the vehicle? That doesn't feel right
Would likely fall under sovereign immunity. Cops actions don't seem to meet a stripping test, so the guy is SOL on his scratches.

 
Can someone explain to me if it was legal for the cops to allow the dog to damage the vehicle? That doesn't feel right
Would likely fall under sovereign immunity. Cops actions don't seem to meet a stripping test, so the guy is SOL on his scratches.
That doesn't go to the question of whether it was legal or not. It only goes to the question of whether the officer or locality could be held liable if it was.

 
Can someone explain to me if it was legal for the cops to allow the dog to damage the vehicle? That doesn't feel right
Would likely fall under sovereign immunity. Cops actions don't seem to meet a stripping test, so the guy is SOL on his scratches.
That doesn't go to the question of whether it was legal or not. It only goes to the question of whether the officer or locality could be held liable if it was.
For the police department, do you think they really care one way or the other?

 
Nashville Attorney says what the officer did was OK:

An attorney out of Nashville, who leads the criminal defense section of Hollins, Raybin & Weissman, said everything Rutherford County Sheriff’s Deputy A.J. Ross did in the DUI checkpoint video that went viral over the Internet is constitutional.

David Raybin outlined why these sorts of roadblocks are constitutionally sound.

“I think (Chris Kalbaugh) was functionally challenging the roadblock or checkpoint,” Raybin said. “But that’s been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.”

In circumstances outside of a checkpoint, Raybin said, “a law enforcement officer may conduct a brief investigatory stop only if the officer has a reasonable suspicion based upon specific and articulable facts that a criminal offense has been, is being or is about to be committed.”

According to Raybin, in State v. Downey, the Tennessee Supreme Court, relying on decisions by the United States Supreme Court, recognized that “a roadblock seizure … is a departure from … fundamental constitutional principles because it permits officers to stop and question persons whose conduct is ordinary, innocent, and free from suspicion.”

However, Raybin said roadblocks are allowed if they are set up with public interest in mind and that “because of the high prevalence of people driving while intoxicated, the U.S. Supreme Court decided there was public interest in permitting DUI checkpoints.”

There are a few rules that must be followed when sobriety checkpoints are set up, Raybin said.

“The most important thing about the DUI checkpoint is that they must be done in a uniform way,” Raybin said. “If they ask one person to roll down their window, and not the next, that would be outside of their discretion. That is the simple component of these things.”

The officer at the roadblock cannot set the protocol, according to Raybin. “It has to be done by the sheriff or highway patrol in advance and followed in uniformity,” he said.

“The whole idea of checkpoints is something that was authorized by Supreme Court in the interest of public safety,” Raybin said. “Because we are in a car and using a public road, we don’t have the same degree of privacy as we do in our home.”

Raybin also said the deputy was not obligated to answer Kalbaugh’s question about whether he was being detained.

“Anytime you are pulled over,” he said, “legally that is a temporary detention. I don’t think the officer should have to say that.”

People need to understand how they should conduct themselves when they are approached by a police officer, Raybin added, saying that if Kalbaugh had just rolled his window down, the officer likely wouldn’t have reacted the way he did.
Sounds like someone shouldn't be the head of their firm's criminal defense unit.

 
Can someone explain to me if it was legal for the cops to allow the dog to damage the vehicle? That doesn't feel right
There really isn't a clear-cut answer to this. If the vehicle was damaged during the normal course of the dog sniff, the state probably isn't liable. If the cop did something out of the ordinary to intentionally cause the damage, then likely both he and the state could be civilly liable, and the officer would be criminally charged.

Proving the latter versus the former is not easy and, damage to one vehicle, likely doesn't invoke the exclusionary rule so even if the kid had contraband and they found it there may not be a remedy for damage to his car as dog sniffs are constitutional. Be akin to cops searching your home with a search warrant and accidentally knocking open a vase or intentionally cutting a mattress.

 
DUI roadblock that doesn't ask if you've been drinking?
Roadblocks are not supposed to be investigatory. It's the same reason as to why the immigration highway checkpoints in the southwest do not ask you if you are illegal when they temporarily stop you. Even though everyone knows the true purpose of the checkpoints - to make arrests for particularly hot-button criminal activities such as DUI and illegal re-entry - the state must still act under the purvey of the checkpoint rules which are to be minimally intrusive and uniform. If they started asking investigatory questions without indicia of evidence of criminal activity the entire checkpoint itself may be found per se unconstitutional.

 
I'm curious if governments monitor the accuracy of K-9 units in situations like these. I'm skeptical. (More so with the handlers than the dogs.)

 
Can someone explain to me if it was legal for the cops to allow the dog to damage the vehicle? That doesn't feel right
Would likely fall under sovereign immunity. Cops actions don't seem to meet a stripping test, so the guy is SOL on his scratches.
That doesn't go to the question of whether it was legal or not. It only goes to the question of whether the officer or locality could be held liable if it was.
For the police department, do you think they really care one way or the other?
No. But it might matter to the person asking whether it was illegal. People generally like to have the question they ask answered.

 
Nashville Attorney says what the officer did was OK:

An attorney out of Nashville, who leads the criminal defense section of Hollins, Raybin & Weissman, said everything Rutherford County Sheriff’s Deputy A.J. Ross did in the DUI checkpoint video that went viral over the Internet is constitutional.

David Raybin outlined why these sorts of roadblocks are constitutionally sound.

“I think (Chris Kalbaugh) was functionally challenging the roadblock or checkpoint,” Raybin said. “But that’s been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.”

In circumstances outside of a checkpoint, Raybin said, “a law enforcement officer may conduct a brief investigatory stop only if the officer has a reasonable suspicion based upon specific and articulable facts that a criminal offense has been, is being or is about to be committed.”

According to Raybin, in State v. Downey, the Tennessee Supreme Court, relying on decisions by the United States Supreme Court, recognized that “a roadblock seizure … is a departure from … fundamental constitutional principles because it permits officers to stop and question persons whose conduct is ordinary, innocent, and free from suspicion.”

However, Raybin said roadblocks are allowed if they are set up with public interest in mind and that “because of the high prevalence of people driving while intoxicated, the U.S. Supreme Court decided there was public interest in permitting DUI checkpoints.”

There are a few rules that must be followed when sobriety checkpoints are set up, Raybin said.

“The most important thing about the DUI checkpoint is that they must be done in a uniform way,” Raybin said. “If they ask one person to roll down their window, and not the next, that would be outside of their discretion. That is the simple component of these things.”

The officer at the roadblock cannot set the protocol, according to Raybin. “It has to be done by the sheriff or highway patrol in advance and followed in uniformity,” he said.

“The whole idea of checkpoints is something that was authorized by Supreme Court in the interest of public safety,” Raybin said. “Because we are in a car and using a public road, we don’t have the same degree of privacy as we do in our home.”

Raybin also said the deputy was not obligated to answer Kalbaugh’s question about whether he was being detained.

“Anytime you are pulled over,” he said, “legally that is a temporary detention. I don’t think the officer should have to say that.”

People need to understand how they should conduct themselves when they are approached by a police officer, Raybin added, saying that if Kalbaugh had just rolled his window down, the officer likely wouldn’t have reacted the way he did.
Sounds like someone shouldn't be the head of their firm's criminal defense unit.
:confused:

Where exactly is he wrong? I get that it is a little disheartening to see a criminal defense attorney "defending" the cops here, but really the only area that I saw the cops actually clearly break the 4th Amendment safeguards was where they instructed the dog to make a false hit on the car - and that's assuming that's actually what they did.

The cops were arrogant dooshes here but the window issue really isn't a big constitutional issue and they don't have to tell the kid he is detained. Should they have cared so much about the window and not answered the kid's questions? No. But that merely makes them power-tripping dooshes (to remain consistent with the thread's vocal).

 
I'm curious if governments monitor the accuracy of K-9 units in situations like these. I'm skeptical. (More so with the handlers than the dogs.)
In AZ every single drug-sniffing dog has gone through documented training (where they must attain a certain accuracy rate) and then all their field sniffs are also documented and tracked for quality assurance.

 
Nashville Attorney says what the officer did was OK:

An attorney out of Nashville, who leads the criminal defense section of Hollins, Raybin & Weissman, said everything Rutherford County Sheriff’s Deputy A.J. Ross did in the DUI checkpoint video that went viral over the Internet is constitutional.

David Raybin outlined why these sorts of roadblocks are constitutionally sound.

“I think (Chris Kalbaugh) was functionally challenging the roadblock or checkpoint,” Raybin said. “But that’s been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.”

In circumstances outside of a checkpoint, Raybin said, “a law enforcement officer may conduct a brief investigatory stop only if the officer has a reasonable suspicion based upon specific and articulable facts that a criminal offense has been, is being or is about to be committed.”

According to Raybin, in State v. Downey, the Tennessee Supreme Court, relying on decisions by the United States Supreme Court, recognized that “a roadblock seizure … is a departure from … fundamental constitutional principles because it permits officers to stop and question persons whose conduct is ordinary, innocent, and free from suspicion.”

However, Raybin said roadblocks are allowed if they are set up with public interest in mind and that “because of the high prevalence of people driving while intoxicated, the U.S. Supreme Court decided there was public interest in permitting DUI checkpoints.”

There are a few rules that must be followed when sobriety checkpoints are set up, Raybin said.

“The most important thing about the DUI checkpoint is that they must be done in a uniform way,” Raybin said. “If they ask one person to roll down their window, and not the next, that would be outside of their discretion. That is the simple component of these things.”

The officer at the roadblock cannot set the protocol, according to Raybin. “It has to be done by the sheriff or highway patrol in advance and followed in uniformity,” he said.

“The whole idea of checkpoints is something that was authorized by Supreme Court in the interest of public safety,” Raybin said. “Because we are in a car and using a public road, we don’t have the same degree of privacy as we do in our home.”

Raybin also said the deputy was not obligated to answer Kalbaugh’s question about whether he was being detained.

“Anytime you are pulled over,” he said, “legally that is a temporary detention. I don’t think the officer should have to say that.”

People need to understand how they should conduct themselves when they are approached by a police officer, Raybin added, saying that if Kalbaugh had just rolled his window down, the officer likely wouldn’t have reacted the way he did.
I don't think your bolded statements change anything. Most aren't arguing checkpoints are unconstitutional (or at least acknowledge the SC declared they are). And the statement about rolling the window down hasn't been disputed. The officer asked, the guy said no. Nowhere in the bolded statement does it say the driver must comply.

As for the part I bolded in red; how did the officer react? Appropriately? I think we all understand if the guy had just rolled his window down the officer would have acted differently. The question is, did the officer react appropriately when the guy didn't want to roll his window down any further?

 
I love how everyone's trying to blame how the officer acted on the kid. Like how the kid acts should have anything to do with the officer. Grow some hard bark, cop.

 
I'm curious if governments monitor the accuracy of K-9 units in situations like these. I'm skeptical. (More so with the handlers than the dogs.)
In AZ every single drug-sniffing dog has gone through documented training (where they must attain a certain accuracy rate) and then all their field sniffs are also documented and tracked for quality assurance.
Report: Drug-Sniffing Dogs Are Wrong More Often Than RightThe through three years worth of cases in which law enforcement used dogs to sniff out drugs in cars in suburban Chicago. According to the analysis, officers found drugs or paraphernalia in only 44 percent of cases in which the dogs had alerted them.

When the driver was Latino, the dogs were right just just 27 percent of the time. The paper explains:

Dog-handling officers and trainers argue the canine teams' accuracy shouldn't be measured in the number of alerts that turn up drugs. They said the scent of drugs or paraphernalia can linger in a car after drugs are used or sold, and the dogs' noses are so sensitive they can pick up residue from drugs that can no longer be found in a car.

The Tribune spoke to a few dog experts and they almost universally blamed the handlers:

Dog handlers can accidentally cue alerts from their dogs by leading them too slowly or too many times around a vehicle, said Lawrence Myers, an Auburn University professor who studies detector dogs. Myers pointed to the "Clever Hans" phenomenon in the early 1900s, named after a horse whose owner claimed the animal could read and do math before a psychologist determined the horse was actually responding to his master's unwitting cues.

Training is the key to eliminating accidental cues and false alerts, said Paul Waggoner of Auburn's detector-dog research program.

"Is there a potential for handlers to cue these dogs to alert?" he asked. "The answer is a big, resounding yes."

That might explain the 27 percent accuracy rate the Tribune found when cops stopped Hispanics. Latino activists quoted by paper said this was yet another indicator of racial profiling.
Drug dogs are an excuse not an effective tool.

 
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I love how everyone's trying to blame how the officer acted on the kid. Like how the kid acts should have anything to do with the officer. Grow some hard bark, cop.
No ####. Learn how to deal with a citizen who knows his rights instead of living your power trip. It's a job skill.

 
I love how everyone's trying to blame how the officer acted on the kid. Like how the kid acts should have anything to do with the officer. Grow some hard bark, cop.
Eveyone? Even people who are less than complimentary to the kid aren't necessarily excusing the officer.

The kid was a little rude. Not as rude as the officer, and yes I hold a police officer to a higher standard. But I do think the kid was a bit rude. I'm generally against being rude to people. I don't make that a special rule with police officers. I'm also against being rude to Best Buy cashiers, baristas, and telemarketers if I can help it.

 
I'm curious if governments monitor the accuracy of K-9 units in situations like these. I'm skeptical. (More so with the handlers than the dogs.)
In AZ every single drug-sniffing dog has gone through documented training (where they must attain a certain accuracy rate) and then all their field sniffs are also documented and tracked for quality assurance.
Report: Drug-Sniffing Dogs Are Wrong More Often Than RightThe through three years worth of cases in which law enforcement used dogs to sniff out drugs in cars in suburban Chicago. According to the analysis, officers found drugs or paraphernalia in only 44 percent of cases in which the dogs had alerted them.

When the driver was Latino, the dogs were right just just 27 percent of the time. The paper explains:

Dog-handling officers and trainers argue the canine teams' accuracy shouldn't be measured in the number of alerts that turn up drugs. They said the scent of drugs or paraphernalia can linger in a car after drugs are used or sold, and the dogs' noses are so sensitive they can pick up residue from drugs that can no longer be found in a car.

The Tribune spoke to a few dog experts and they almost universally blamed the handlers:

Dog handlers can accidentally cue alerts from their dogs by leading them too slowly or too many times around a vehicle, said Lawrence Myers, an Auburn University professor who studies detector dogs. Myers pointed to the "Clever Hans" phenomenon in the early 1900s, named after a horse whose owner claimed the animal could read and do math before a psychologist determined the horse was actually responding to his master's unwitting cues.

Training is the key to eliminating accidental cues and false alerts, said Paul Waggoner of Auburn's detector-dog research program.

"Is there a potential for handlers to cue these dogs to alert?" he asked. "The answer is a big, resounding yes."

That might explain the 27 percent accuracy rate the Tribune found when cops stopped Hispanics. Latino activists quoted by paper said this was yet another indicator of racial profiling.
Drug dogs are an excuse not an effective tool.
Again, I see this as an example of the fundamental philosophical issue of the exclusionary rule. There are no remedies or safeguards for the innocent individual.

Also, please don't take my reply above to the guy's skepticism as my condoning the use of drug dogs. I was simply pointing out the methods of quality assurance used in the jurisdiction in which I practice.

 
I love how everyone's trying to blame how the officer acted on the kid. Like how the kid acts should have anything to do with the officer. Grow some hard bark, cop.
Eveyone? Even people who are less than complimentary to the kid aren't necessarily excusing the officer.

The kid was a little rude. Not as rude as the officer, and yes I hold a police officer to a higher standard. But I do think the kid was a bit rude. I'm generally against being rude to people. I don't make that a special rule with police officers. I'm also against being rude to Best Buy cashiers, baristas, and telemarketers if I can help it.
I've been in your corner the entire thread. Until the bolded. I fee like I don't even know you anymore. I go out of my way to be rude to them. Especially baristas who think they are better than me.

 
I love how everyone's trying to blame how the officer acted on the kid. Like how the kid acts should have anything to do with the officer. Grow some hard bark, cop.
Eveyone? Even people who are less than complimentary to the kid aren't necessarily excusing the officer.

The kid was a little rude. Not as rude as the officer, and yes I hold a police officer to a higher standard. But I do think the kid was a bit rude. I'm generally against being rude to people. I don't make that a special rule with police officers. I'm also against being rude to Best Buy cashiers, baristas, and telemarketers if I can help it.
The problem is you have to be "rude" to officers who believe you are required to follow their orders. Many don't understand when something is voluntary. Either that or they do understand and their style is to force compliance anyway, which is wrong.

If you went to the Best Buy cashier and your item rang up for more that the price tag and you don't want to pay that amount, should the cashier try to force you to pay? How would you act if they did? Then the security guy comes over, gets in your face and says you have to pay. You'd probably have to get rude and walk out. But that would never happen because they understand their role and your rights as a customer.

No rudeness is necessary when officers know their role.

 
I love how everyone's trying to blame how the officer acted on the kid. Like how the kid acts should have anything to do with the officer. Grow some hard bark, cop.
Eveyone? Even people who are less than complimentary to the kid aren't necessarily excusing the officer.

The kid was a little rude. Not as rude as the officer, and yes I hold a police officer to a higher standard. But I do think the kid was a bit rude. I'm generally against being rude to people. I don't make that a special rule with police officers. I'm also against being rude to Best Buy cashiers, baristas, and telemarketers if I can help it.
I've been in your corner the entire thread. Until the bolded. I fee like I don't even know you anymore. I go out of my way to be rude to them. Especially baristas who think they are better than me.
WTF is a barista?

 
I love how everyone's trying to blame how the officer acted on the kid. Like how the kid acts should have anything to do with the officer. Grow some hard bark, cop.
Eveyone? Even people who are less than complimentary to the kid aren't necessarily excusing the officer.

The kid was a little rude. Not as rude as the officer, and yes I hold a police officer to a higher standard. But I do think the kid was a bit rude. I'm generally against being rude to people. I don't make that a special rule with police officers. I'm also against being rude to Best Buy cashiers, baristas, and telemarketers if I can help it.
The problem is you have to be "rude" to officers who believe you are required to follow their orders. Many don't understand when something is voluntary. Either that or they do understand and their style is to force compliance anyway, which is wrong.

If you went to the Best Buy cashier and your item rang up for more that the price tag and you don't want to pay that amount, should the cashier try to force you to pay? How would you act if they did? Then the security guy comes over, gets in your face and says you have to pay. You'd probably have to get rude and walk out. But that would never happen because they understand their role and your rights as a customer.

No rudeness is necessary when officers know their role.
Right. In fact, those calling him rude are saying so because he didn't follow an order that he didn't have to. What he said and how he said it were quite polite. If a cashier asks for my telephone number when ringing them up, I've said "no thanks". Does that make me rude for simply not complying with something I don't have to or don't want to? The guy didn't want to roll down his window and said "no thanks". Because of that, now he's rude?

 
I love how everyone's trying to blame how the officer acted on the kid. Like how the kid acts should have anything to do with the officer. Grow some hard bark, cop.
Eveyone? Even people who are less than complimentary to the kid aren't necessarily excusing the officer.

The kid was a little rude. Not as rude as the officer, and yes I hold a police officer to a higher standard. But I do think the kid was a bit rude. I'm generally against being rude to people. I don't make that a special rule with police officers. I'm also against being rude to Best Buy cashiers, baristas, and telemarketers if I can help it.
The problem is you have to be "rude" to officers who believe you are required to follow their orders. Many don't understand when something is voluntary. Either that or they do understand and their style is to force compliance anyway, which is wrong.

If you went to the Best Buy cashier and your item rang up for more that the price tag and you don't want to pay that amount, should the cashier try to force you to pay? How would you act if they did? Then the security guy comes over, gets in your face and says you have to pay. You'd probably have to get rude and walk out. But that would never happen because they understand their role and your rights as a customer.

No rudeness is necessary when officers know their role.
Right. In fact, those calling him rude are saying so because he didn't follow an order that he didn't have to. What he said and how he said it were quite polite. If a cashier asks for my telephone number when ringing them up, I've said "no thanks". Does that make me rude for simply not complying with something I don't have to or don't want to? The guy didn't want to roll down his window and said "no thanks". Because of that, now he's rude?
Yes. Not super rude. But a little rude. He could have said, "I'm sorry officer, but I believe you can adequately assess my sobriety this way and I'd like to comply with this checkpoint without forfeiting any more of my rights than necessary."

Odds are the officer still would have acted like a ####. But I think that type of response would have been more polite and would have more accurately reflected the kid's concerns than "this is fine, offficer."

 
Watch the DHS checkpoint refusals I posted earlier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg

The woman at 2:30 asks a million questions but eventually realizes she has to let the guy through

The guy at 14:15 lets the guy through almost right away. The driver is being a total **** too, which sucks, but that officer knows his role and there's no issue.

 

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