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HC Mike Tomlin, PIT (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GROOT
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crushedspirit
Footballguy
Tomlin should stay and keep making the Steeler fans that enjoy living in sports purgatory content annually.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Not quite a conundrum.
3-7 since 2011
Only 2 seasons after 2010 with a playoff win (2 in 2016, 1 in 2015)
Playoffs 7 of last 12 years
All 3 wins vs backup QBs (Matt Moore, Alex Smith, AJ McCarron)
Last 3 losses have given up 42, 48, and 45 points.
Can't blame Canada and Pickett for all of that.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Smith was a backup? For the Chiefs?
brewer
Footballguy
Tomlin is never getting fired. Canada should never have been hired. He didn't have the resume for NFL OC. I'd promote Mike Sullivan as play caller for the rest of the season but it's not the Steelers way, so it's Canada for the rest of the season.
No I don't even think Mahomes could save this offense.
Big Nate
Footballguy
There is a lot that goes into winning football games. The offense has not been good. I think it is a little of everything from the OC, the system, crappy QB play and just being disjointed on O. I think there was an internal struggle and now Canada is gone so we will see. Play calling will be much different and I am very curious to see personnel changes/usage changes.
Do we see more Warren going forward? More of a 70/30 split? Do we see more of Pickens or is Dionte still the #1? Now that Freiermuth is getting back healthy how does he work in? I think he is very underrated as a Red Zone TE threat an someone that can work the middle of the field very well. I think the Steelers have missed having their TE as a clutch/possession receiver.
Overall Tomlin is a good HC. Can he save this team and keep them afloat? It is going to be a tough battle - will see if this team can rally and get back to playing good football.
Is the issue @ QB or was it Matt Canada? Maybe it was/is both?
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I agree, but there have been many good HCs put in difficult situations in the NFL, and for college for that matter.
Yenrub
Footballguy
Didn't score much but they outgained their opponent for a change. Also had over 400 yards total offense in a very long time.
brewer
Footballguy
Play action, utilizing their TE, lots of good signs. The game could have been entirely different if Diontae Johnson caught the TD and/or bothered to be involved on the next play to recover a fumble.
This offense will never be the greatest show on turf, but I have some hope now that the play caller has come creativity.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Good or bad, Tomlin isn't going anywhere. Johnson may have caught that TD, maybe it wouldn't have been overturned. But it was on Tomlin that the red flag wasn't thrown and that decision alone may have cost the team 7 points. That might have mattered if the Bengals had Burrow and Higgins. He's so awful at challenges.
No matter what happens or changes between now and the end of the year, a two person, stop-gap approach to the OC position isn't going to be the solution long term. He needs to hire someone powerful and innovative enough to completely own the offense, not another internal promotion. He needs to just get out of the way and let someone else take that responsibility.
No matter what happens or changes between now and the end of the year, a two person, stop-gap approach to the OC position isn't going to be the solution long term. He needs to hire someone powerful and innovative enough to completely own the offense, not another internal promotion. He needs to just get out of the way and let someone else take that responsibility.
WaltonGoggins
Footballguy
The same Rooneys who wanted to draft Pickett in the first round when he shouldn't even start in the NFL? Tomlin needs to move on and coach a team who has a clue about what a QB is in the NFL cause Mitch and Pickett aren't remotely close.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
They have 2 Hall of Fame Quarterbacks on their mantle, let's go around all 32 teams and see how many they have.
Yeah, Pittsburgh has no idea how to operate an NFL team
-Let's show a little bit of respect here for an organization that has rules named after them in the NFL
Not sure Tomlin is an automatic winner if he joins a new organization.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Any source for where it was the Rooney's who made the decision to draft Pickett and that it wasn't supported by Tomlin or anyone else in the org.?
WaltonGoggins
Footballguy
Don't compare to an organization had a clue that will only make things worse. If you don't evolve you die.
The Steeler's organization clearly doesn't know how to operate and NFL team when they drafted Pickett in first round because he's a local kid? He should never start in the NFL that was pretty clear except for Steelers organization. Now they are better than their record because of their coaching which eliminates them from getting a franchise type QB. Make no mistake Pickett or Mitch should never start in the NFL. The all time best head coach in your head wouldn't make a difference.
brewer
Footballguy
It's funny if you think Tomlin has no voice in player acquisition.
WaltonGoggins
Footballguy
Seriously? Buck stops with Rooney II if not then they need new owners. Here's one of many but was said numerous times on TV since the draft.
"Last night, in the first draft of the post Ben Roethlisberger era, Mike Tomlin, Kevin Colbert and Art Rooney II tried to undo that decision by drafting Pitt’s Kenny Pickett in the first round of the 2022 NFL Draft."
Righting a Wrong? Steelers Draft Kenny Pickett, Pitt QB, in 1st Round of 2022 NFL Draft - Steel Curtain Rising
The Pittsburgh Steelers opened the 2022 NFL Draft by picking Kenny Pickett, quarterback from Pitt in the first round.
steelcurtainrising.com
WaltonGoggins
Footballguy
it's funny you think it's more important than the owners perhaps new ownership is the issue if that's the case
brewer
Footballguy
Well, I am fairly certain that the owner is not going to fire himself so, what is your point?
WaltonGoggins
Footballguy
That yours was incorrect
brewer
Footballguy
Have a great season.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Wise decision lol. I've come to the same conclusion.
WaltonGoggins
Footballguy
you asked for a link you could have easily googled and gave it to you lol
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
You sound a little bitter
EBF
Footballguy
If anything, I'm impressed by his coaching to have them punching above their weight when their roster is problematic.
In the NFL, you're usually only as good as your QB, and Pickett is no Roethlisberger.
Their big problem is that they seem to have whiffed on their QB successor. Solve that problem and they'll be relevant again.
In the NFL, you're usually only as good as your QB, and Pickett is no Roethlisberger.
Their big problem is that they seem to have whiffed on their QB successor. Solve that problem and they'll be relevant again.
WaltonGoggins
Footballguy
you’re way off I am extremely bitter you have no idea haven’t been this bitter in 10 years!!!
irish eyes
Footballguy
beef
Footballguy
They are starting the Bears sloppy seconds at QB.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
It's actually been time for a while now. I think Tomlin has a lot of pride and is so well respected that there is a good chance he just resigns. Why would he want to coach what is becoming a disaster of a franchise with Swiss cheese holes everywhere? He'll get a job somewhere else in a heartbeat and hopefully it will be a team that is on the cusp. It's good for the Steelers as well because they need to be really bad for a year or two and find a franchise QB. Get an offensive minded coach in place who can help develop them. They need someone with a new mentality who can adjust to today's NFL. That's not Tomlin unfortunately. I give it about a 45% chance that Tomlin is gone next year. That may actually not be such a bad thing because they could try to target bringing in a new coach when they draft their QB (which isn't happening until 2025 at the earliest).
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yeah, I could see them working out a deal with Tomlin "leaves" on his own; I just don't see the Steelers organization coming out and firing him. That said, they have to be tired of season after season the last decade of being just good enough to maybe make the playoffs. Three playoff wins in the last 12 seasons is not the excellence the Steelers are known for.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Tomlin the coach is good enough to vault Tomlin GM teams to 9-8
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Have agreed with this since last season. I view it very much like the Eagles and Andy Reid parting ways. It was truly a win/win for both organizations (Philly and KC). I think something similar happens with the Steelers. Unfortunately, I don't share the optimism that is likely to happen this offseason. But one thing our fake dynasty football and the real NFL have in common, middle of the pack is the worst place to be. While I don't envy teams that are in the gutter for a decade, I've not really enjoyed watching Steelers games since 2017. While others just liked seeing wins, 2020 was the most fraudulent no-loss team I believe I've ever seen. I couldn't even enjoy that 11-0 knowing we'd get smashed first round of the playoffs. And then it was the Browns who did it. Woof. Not to mention so many of those wins were pure luck, often times in spite of poor play and play calling.
I may feel different if I was a fan of another team, as I'm sure fans some Bears fans would kill to see their team in the playoffs, even if they are getting crushed. But at this point, I just want to see a team taking steps in a positive direction regardless of record. And it feels like the Steelers have been on decline since 2017, every year either spinning their wheels or just flat out getting worse. I get it, 1st world problems. But 6 years of watching a team regress starts to get depressing. Something needs to change, even if it makes things worse for the short term.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
What I heard was that KP was their top rated QB in the class, but he was not in their plans to draft in the first round. Once Haskins died, however, Rooney told them that they needed to take a QB in the first.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
While this is now the second time I've read that on this board, I have yet to read it anywhere else. In fact, while Rooney isn't a completely hands off owner, I've never read anything reputable that he intervenes much in the scouting and drafting process; let alone that he enacts some kind of final say on picks. If you have the links I'd be completely open to being wrong on this. But I've looked, and haven't seen them.
Meanwhile, we had one of the most successful drafting GMs in the NFL for a very long time (aside from CBs but that's another story lol), and I did see plenty of articles that Colbert loved Pickett and in some ways wanted to leave one last fingerprint on the organization before retiring, setting them up for success on his way out the door. Obviously it hasn't worked out that way. And not that Colbert could do no wrong in my eyes, his last few years were by no means the best of his tenure, but I also don't think the Steelers, specifically the OC, have done Pickett any favors in his development or implementation in this offense. I didn't like the pick to begin with, was never a huge fan of Pickett, but I think he could have been better set up for success than the team did. Realistically, we should have been taking shots on a Ben replacement in 2019/2020. And at worse found a bridge guy to learn a bit under Ben as he was dying off. Instead we continued finishing slightly over .500, getting mid to low first round picks, and waited till our stud was put to pasture to wing it on a guy and immediately throw him in the fire with a **** OC. It was a long shot at best it would turn out good for us. And eventually... regardless of the minutiae, it's gotta fall on the HC.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
This is something that you just have to trust me on.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Appropriate comment for the user name my guy haha. But yeah everything I read was to the contrary; they didn't expect Pickett to fall to 20 so they actually were leaning a different direction before he "fell in their lap" so to say.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
I think Leroy has insider info.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
If it makes me a skeptic to not believe a random guy on an internet msg board who's only supporting argument is "trust me bro", then I guess I'm a skeptic. Of all possible scenarios, the one where he has legitimate and verifiable intimate knowledge of decisions being made in the draft war room of one of the most storied franchises in the NFL that only a handful of people are even privy to is razor thin to say the least. More so the fact this knowledge made it out to him, but no one else who works in the business and makes a living off reporting things like this so FBG msg board is the only place where this info is even being speculated, let alone purported as reality.... I'd need to ring up Dr. Strange and borrow the time stone to find the one multiverse where this is actually the case. Not trying to be a jerk, but his comment provides 0 insight whatsoever. It would be better to just say it's speculation than present it as a fact and then have absolutely nothing to back that up. Especially when all the evidence that IS out there, points in the exact opposite direction. And comes from people who have names and careers in the field, and often actual sources they cite, and a history of verified claims....
Pinkstapler you're looking for empirical evidence. Until one of the big 3(Colbert, Rooney, Tomlin maybe another person) says so we will never know.
Keep in mind there was a lot of hope for Dwayne Haskin's. I do truly believe that Rooney had some sort of say pertaining to KP. At that time there was a lot of comments about how KP broke Danny Marino's records. Plus, the regret of passing on Danny M. Steelers had the 21st pick in the 1983 draft. Danny was the 27th pick. The fact that KP is a great character guy, they saw him regularly at the facilities, he put up great numbers with a good Pitt team, and in my mind, I think they were over saturated with KP.
Keep in mind there was a lot of hope for Dwayne Haskin's. I do truly believe that Rooney had some sort of say pertaining to KP. At that time there was a lot of comments about how KP broke Danny Marino's records. Plus, the regret of passing on Danny M. Steelers had the 21st pick in the 1983 draft. Danny was the 27th pick. The fact that KP is a great character guy, they saw him regularly at the facilities, he put up great numbers with a good Pitt team, and in my mind, I think they were over saturated with KP.
H8fulHuck
Footballguy
Have to back Leroy here. No random internet guy could be so "lucky" with details over the years. Often hate the news shared (like Harris and Pickett selections), but respect the messenger. This is the way.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
It was provincialism on the part of Art Rooney II, IMO. Pure and simple. He was terrified of "missing out on a Dan Marino a second time." In reality, that wasn't ever a possibility. Pickett wsn't near that class of a prospect.
"Following your **** instead of your brain" almost never works out well long term, and it likely won't in this case either. But they sure did make sure they didn't pass on taking Dan Marino a second time! Too bad it turns out he's probably the 2nd Todd Blackledge.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I can totally see that. Like I said, he's not a hands off owner. I would think it's incredibly likely he shared an opinion on KP, and that it was positive considering they wound up drafting him. But this is the second time I've heard someone say it was Rooney's call to make that pick, and his alone. I find that very hard to believe. There were tons of articles on Colbert loving him, Tomlin falling in love (though he also seemed to have a very soft spot for Malik Willis, who I believe he told others in the org they had to fly out and scout him as well), I think it was a group decision. And seeing as for the past two decades or so, if anyone was purported to be the final say on draft picks it was Colbert, it would lead me to believe if you want to pin the pick on someone's hat, he'd be the guy.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I believe Leroy has some inside information and that Rooney had a role in the decision to draft Kenny Pickett. I am not sure that I buy Finkle's assertation that Rooney was "terrified on missing out on a Dan Marino a second time".
Pickett was coming off a great year and was very familiar to the Steelers, practicing in the same facility. They liked him and needed a QB. I am on record in the Steeers thread as disliking the pick for a number of reasons but it is water under the bridge now.
Pickett was coming off a great year and was very familiar to the Steelers, practicing in the same facility. They liked him and needed a QB. I am on record in the Steeers thread as disliking the pick for a number of reasons but it is water under the bridge now.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Well it could easily be my lack of seeing his results over the years then. While I've been reading this board over a decade now, it's very rarely as a Steeler fan. Unlike fantasy, I like news not speculation on the team. So not only don't I post on the Steelers team thread, I don't often read it. A lot of times those types of scenes in sports get way too extreme for me, both positive and negative. The primary thing I come to the boards for is fantasy/dynasty stuff, and then wade through speculation because of the potential payoff. So if you're saying Leroy has a long history of insider knowledge that's not reported elsewhere and winds up coming to fruition, my apologies to him. And also makes me a bit sad to hear, as owners very rarely make good GMs. The more they stay out of the weeds IMO, the better.
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