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HC Sean Payton, DEN (1 Viewer)
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Meeting with the broncos on Monday, per Schefter
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
MarkMaske
@MarkMaske
The Broncos appear to be the front-runner for Sean Payton, at least in the early stages of the process. Payton likes the franchise's stable ownership and would be happy to work with Russell Wilson, source says.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Won't the money basically be the same wherever he goes? I mean, how much more money would it take to get someone to tie themselves to Russell Wilson?
Tanner9919
Footballguy
why would he go to denver?? why would anyone go to denver? Colts have the best team in the NFL that no one is talking about. but, it's indy. who the hell wants to go there?
Cards? why would you ever want to go to the cards? losing franchise with shabby players and a lousy QB.Panthers? that's purgatory. hell zone devoid of talented players. Dalls will be open as of tuesday morning when Jones fires McCarthy after a debacle in TB.
And the Chargers cannot and should not continue with the weak coaching staff they have in place.
Cards? why would you ever want to go to the cards? losing franchise with shabby players and a lousy QB.Panthers? that's purgatory. hell zone devoid of talented players. Dalls will be open as of tuesday morning when Jones fires McCarthy after a debacle in TB.
And the Chargers cannot and should not continue with the weak coaching staff they have in place.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
The Saints weren't a storied franchise when Payton went there. I could see him go to a team like Houston, bring Derek Carr and turn that franchise around.
I thought it was going to be like a #1 but I've been hearing at least 2 #1's, maybe will rise to something close to the Gruden level.
If I'm a fan of a team looking at him I'm sweating it out every day hoping they go in another direction or he finds someplace else he wants to go. I'm out on that.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
The price tag makes an already perplexing Denver possibility even more perplexing.
I wouldn't be out on Payton, but the price tag would leave no margin for error. He's a great coach, but when you give up that much to get him there can be absolutely no possibility that he's just a solid coach that had Drew Brees in the NFC South.
His resume is nearly identical to Mike McCarthy. Absolutely fine football coach. But I think reasonable people could debate whether or not you want to give up a dump truck load of draft picks for him.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
But anyway, given the likely price tag, what if the most sensible spot is.........New Orleans?
Bring in a QB and go toe to toe with Desmond Ridder, Sam Darnold, and whoever the back up in Tampa is.
Bring in a QB and go toe to toe with Desmond Ridder, Sam Darnold, and whoever the back up in Tampa is.
Saints just said they're bringing Allen back. Not sure what the motivation would be to not be truthful about that.
I actually thought of this recently.
Similar records as you said. Both with HOF QB's but just one SB. MM seems to get hammered for this, as just being along for the ride while Payton seems to have somehow survived a lot of that criticism and just my opinion is viewed as someone who helped create Brees success where MM is again seemingly treated like he was just along for the ride.
I think it really boils down to perception and Payton has done a better job of making himself look like the guy who has all the answers. He's directly from the Parcells tree and he's got that cocky smirk, attitude, just acts like he knows more then you.
I've also been hearing lately Payton is very difficult to work with, will step on whoever he has to get what he wants and is largely responsible for the cap hell the Saints have been living in. A situation he created and then walked out on.
I've long felt teams, especially one's with the wealthiest owners, could easily create a competitive advantage by paying top coaches the big money because they of course don't count against the cap. Dallas kind of does this for example. So while I'm all for paying top coaches, I'm totally out on surrending #1's for someone like Payton. I'm a Steelers fan so I'm good, but I'd seriously be sick if I was a fan of a team that does this.
Doug B
Footballguy
I think that’s probably true. I do think Payton is a good coach but he’s not on the mega elite tier.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Amazing to me that anyone voluntarily watches that.
wlwiles
Footballguy
Can't see him going to Carolina - their fanbase hates him as a person, and Saints would/should ask for the moon in draft pick compensation to lose him to a division rival. Price should be too steep. Denver seems unlikely because there is a real chance that the problem wasn't Hackett and that Russ is washed up. LAC with Herbert is probably the most attractive spot, if they end up firing Staley that is.
I could see Payton going somewhere like Houston, they've got extra picks, low cap numbers, lots of room to maneuver, and they're probably one of the teams that would give him more control and power over the team construction. Remember BOB had free reign there, if Payton could get that it could be very appealing.
I could see Payton going somewhere like Houston, they've got extra picks, low cap numbers, lots of room to maneuver, and they're probably one of the teams that would give him more control and power over the team construction. Remember BOB had free reign there, if Payton could get that it could be very appealing.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Obvious you didn’t pay attention to what he did last year with the carousel of QBs he had. Over-opinionated has never been something short on these boards the past 20 years.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It’s going to be interesting to see if Brees made Payton what he was.
I thought he was a good coach who got the most out of his rosters, but time will tell.
If I’m Payton and LAC creates an opening, that’s the ideal landing spot, talent-wise.
I thought he was a good coach who got the most out of his rosters, but time will tell.
If I’m Payton and LAC creates an opening, that’s the ideal landing spot, talent-wise.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That sounds…steep.
Doug B
Footballguy
A lot of fans here are banking very hard on this. We'll see.
Doug B
Footballguy
There's a lot of moving parts. Jim Harbaugh has just announced a return to Michigan, so that's one less big-name coach out there.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yep - and enough competition for Payton that someone is more likely to pay.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
They have the pick that Denver doesn’t.
Doug B
Footballguy
I forgot that Denver does have the 49ers first rounder (via Miami in the Bradley Chubb trade). Plus picks 68 (from Indy) and 69 in the third.
The Saints might not bite on this, but Denver could offer their 2023 third rounders and their 2024 first round pick. I don't know -- I would consider that in Loomis's shoes.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Oh snap - I forgot about that too.
Doug B
Footballguy
Oh snap - I forgot about that too.
Plus Denver has IMHO a glut of good WRs. Any of those guys worth a second-rounder? At least a third? If so, maybe the Broncos pull the trigger and load up a bit so that trading what picks they have is not quite so painful.
Just spitballing ... but really, so many moving parts.
What did he do? He might be a decent coach, but he's overrated.
Turned a horrible franchise into a successful one.
Statorama
Footballguy
This reminds me of the time when Cowher retired, and the differences with Payton retiring.
I thought for sure Cowher was going to get an 'offer he couldn't refuse' to coach again (Browns kept coming up), but he stuck with broadcasting and never (as far as I could see) used a return to the NFL to leverage more money out of the network. He was a good broadcasting fit from day one, a real natural for the studio role. Payton has never looked comfortable in any broadcasting role (he doesn't even look comfortable wearing a suit). There are just some guys that can't handle 'working for someone' or being part of a larger team doing something when they are not in charge. With the Saints, he never really had a 'boss'. He was given a pretty long leash to do his job.
His track record indicates that he's going to want a lot of control. At a minimum, he's going to want his on-field word to be gospel. No one in the organization getting in his ear about running more or getting the TE more looks (or God forbid which players should be playing more) or anything like that. At a minimum it's going to be "you give me a roster and I do with it what I please". That's why all the Dallas stuff seemed weird to me, because JJ is the prototypical "hands on" owner.
Will Payton only come back if he's the GM too? That would limit some of his options.
This is my opinion only - so take with a heaping teaspoon of salt:
I thought for sure Cowher was going to get an 'offer he couldn't refuse' to coach again (Browns kept coming up), but he stuck with broadcasting and never (as far as I could see) used a return to the NFL to leverage more money out of the network. He was a good broadcasting fit from day one, a real natural for the studio role. Payton has never looked comfortable in any broadcasting role (he doesn't even look comfortable wearing a suit). There are just some guys that can't handle 'working for someone' or being part of a larger team doing something when they are not in charge. With the Saints, he never really had a 'boss'. He was given a pretty long leash to do his job.
His track record indicates that he's going to want a lot of control. At a minimum, he's going to want his on-field word to be gospel. No one in the organization getting in his ear about running more or getting the TE more looks (or God forbid which players should be playing more) or anything like that. At a minimum it's going to be "you give me a roster and I do with it what I please". That's why all the Dallas stuff seemed weird to me, because JJ is the prototypical "hands on" owner.
Will Payton only come back if he's the GM too? That would limit some of his options.
This is my opinion only - so take with a heaping teaspoon of salt:
- Texans 10% possibility - If he's interested in 'Dynasty Mode', this is the spot as he'd be building from the ground up with very little roster capital to start with. He'd have a lot of roster flexibility. Lots of picks and plenty of room under the salary cap. Does he want to work with a rookie QB and build a team from the ground up? His ego might just be big enough to take on a challenge like that.
- Colts 15% possibility - Better spot than people realize. Lots of on-field talent already on the roster. Nice stadium. Winnable division. Can he co-exist with Irsay? Will he get a pre-draft say in what's going to happen at the QB position? Not sure if he'd want to transplant the family to Indy though.
- Denver 10% possibility - If he sees something in Russell Wilson that he can work with the chances go up. There's talent at the skill positions. If they are going to back up the Brinks truck and give him something ridiculous the odds go up. I just don't think he wants to be in Denver for half the year. I think they would really have to go above and beyond if they think Payton is their guy. Bluntly, if the money and control are the same for all the offers he receives, he isn't going to Denver.
- Carolina 1% possibility - Not an attractive job for someone in Payton's position. I don't know why you'd turn down the other open jobs for this one if the money is even. Overall I think they like Wilkes anyway Positives? Charlotte seems like a great place to live. Very winnable division. Would get to play the Saints twice a year.
- Arizona 4% possibility - The QB situation is the reason for the low ranking. No way Payton and Murray co-exist. Nice dome, good fanbase, good winter weather, a few pieces in place on the roster - but this team just gives me a bad vibe as a match for Payton. BUT it is a spot with openings at both HC and GM, which might be enough of a carrot.
- Chargers (Currently not open) - This job might open up, and if it does, I don't know how he says no. Established franchise QB, plenty of talent on the roster, great city year round, just a perfect match.
- Other 60% (stay on TV another year, some unlisted team writes him a check he can't refuse, a playoff team opening happens - like if Andy Reid retires or something, Tom Brady says I'll stay if Payton is the coach, etc.)
- College 0% - I can't envision him taking a college job and having to do all the glad-handing with the alumni and the recruiting leg work. It just seems like a nightmare for someone with Payton's personality.
- For the meatheads on sports radio - Offensive Coordinator NE Patriots - with an understanding that Bill coaches another season and retires. It would take one whopper of a signing bonus. (If it hasn't registered, this is a joke)
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Arizona has hired a GM now
Boston
Footballguy
Flores is rumored to be a strong potential HC .
Like I said, Drew Brees. jmo
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
But brees wasn’t an obvious undeniable qb talent in the nfl. Payton really figured out how to get the most out of him. Whether he can do that with another qb remains to be seen, but Payton deserves a lot of the credit for making it work.
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Boston
Footballguy
The Chargers moved on from him, the Dolphins chose Culpepper rather than him and his shoulder was iffy when he got to NO...he was not the Drew Brees we know now when Payton got him.
Brees was coming on in San Diego, and the Chargers moved on because of his shoulder and the fact they had drafted Rivers.
I think it's silly to suggest that Payton made Drew Brees.
Not very quantitative, but if every game I watch a team and ask "what is he (the coach) doing?" I tend to not think much of the coach.
Boston
Footballguy
No...it actually is not silly to think Payton had a very big influence in Brees' career development...and if you want to look at the history of the NFL almost every great QB had a great Coach (and vice versa)...they go hand and hand.
Sean got more out of him than Marty ball, but I think Brees was going to be great regardless.
Statorama
Footballguy
Nice try Saints. Asking for two first rounders might get some team to budge on an extra day two pick along with a first, but they are high if they think they are getting two firsts.
Also, I love Sean Payton like a brother, but that salary demand + giving up picks? I'd rather give an Eric Bienemy / Shane Steichen type a chance to see what they could do.
Also, I love Sean Payton like a brother, but that salary demand + giving up picks? I'd rather give an Eric Bienemy / Shane Steichen type a chance to see what they could do.
