BassNBrew
Footballguy
Why would I take my friends to a place that guarantees the group as a whole loses 10%?
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
How long before dailies spell the end of traditional FF? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Shutout
- Start date
ponchsox
Footballguy
Don't those daily sites take a nice cut of the winnings? I would rather play in 100% payout leagues.
Last edited by a moderator:
JimmyJabroni
Footballguy
If you like the format of picking a new team every week, playing for money every week, while still keeping your group of friends together...you'd be paying for the convience of having someone set up the platform and software for you to do so easily.
Last edited by a moderator:
x260bm
Footballguy
Daily fantasy football is nothing new. It was the most popular format in the early internet era, because it was free as opposed to traditional leagues where the entry fee was $20/$30 with zero prize support. Once websites like CBS and ESPN started offer free league everyone stopped playing it. When the average fanduel player gets good enough there will be no more easy money and it will die off again.
Last edited by a moderator:
JimmyJabroni
Footballguy
If that's the only reason they are playing, I would think they'd be more risk averse and stay away from the guy with the bad ankle, even if he did score 3TD's last week.
Actually it's way worse than that... it's not 10%, but 10% of every play.
So imagine you and I each deposit $1000, and play H2H games against each other. We're really evenly matched, so much so that we alternate winning and losing.
After 2 plays, we've each won once, and we each have $990 left.
After 100 plays, we've each won 50 times, and we each have $500 left.
After 180 plays, we've each won 90 times, and we each have $100 left.
After 181 plays, one of us is broke, and the other has $190.
After all that fun, 9.5% of the $2K is still in our hands. 90.5% is in the house's hands.
JimmyJabroni
Footballguy
I never thought of it like that. I mainly play in the tourneys and other leagues where the money is pooled together, so it was never much concern to me that they were taking a percentage of the money in the pot. I can see from your example you'd have to have a good winning percent to make money if playing H2H while getting 10% skimmed off each time. I'm going to stick with leagues and touneys, they are the most fun anyway.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dismattle
Footballguy
Theres a post which Im thinking that some havnt seen, which implys or rather mentions the subject of dumbing things down in relationship to drafting players in HS for their FANTASY Football TEAM.. Now Im thinking that if someone has an inkling to devote any amt of time to figuring out who to draft in such a situation that they probably would not even be amused at the prospect of playing dailies.
I mean Im thinking that anyone who plays in a Keeper League, would like to try Dynasty etc. Id say "graduate", but I do not want to alienate or confuse anyone..
How many hrs do people spend choosing a lineup for a $5 Team, that disappears at the end of the W/E? I mean Im not sure its very sporting, and it is for sure dumb luck, for the most part (imho).
However on the bright side of things, I think its an interesting post. We probably have several guys who enjoy tracking most all the Top players, and potential Stars too. This means that some could consider playing such games just for the thrill similar to counting cards while playing "21". Basically an ez Win, unless he winds up playing against another card counter..
Now Id also like to point out that I have actually tried this "betting" in the past. I performed very poorly using poor logic which involved affording the Names that I new would produce, by guessing on the cheap(er) players. My personal turn-off involved the difficulty in finding what I guess the website deemed obscure players or something.
Personally I could see this as something which increases the numbers of people who enjoy Leagues, but probably can never provide the real thrill.
I would compare Dailys to playing a College Bowl game every week. Its fun, but it aint the Big Leagues!
I mean Im thinking that anyone who plays in a Keeper League, would like to try Dynasty etc. Id say "graduate", but I do not want to alienate or confuse anyone..
How many hrs do people spend choosing a lineup for a $5 Team, that disappears at the end of the W/E? I mean Im not sure its very sporting, and it is for sure dumb luck, for the most part (imho).
However on the bright side of things, I think its an interesting post. We probably have several guys who enjoy tracking most all the Top players, and potential Stars too. This means that some could consider playing such games just for the thrill similar to counting cards while playing "21". Basically an ez Win, unless he winds up playing against another card counter..
Now Id also like to point out that I have actually tried this "betting" in the past. I performed very poorly using poor logic which involved affording the Names that I new would produce, by guessing on the cheap(er) players. My personal turn-off involved the difficulty in finding what I guess the website deemed obscure players or something.
Personally I could see this as something which increases the numbers of people who enjoy Leagues, but probably can never provide the real thrill.
I would compare Dailys to playing a College Bowl game every week. Its fun, but it aint the Big Leagues!
just_want_2_win
Footballguy
I am next year only doing dailies or will abstain altogether.
What I like with dailies is:
For example this week I saw people scrambling to add B. Pierce mid week but by the end of the week he was hurt but not so badly that we knew he'd not play so Taliaferro was now in play and Pierce was even more of a question mark. There will be some snidely remarks about Pierce not being that good to begin with and that those grabbing him were dumb, but with all the turmoil at RB this year any RB with potential, even just for a game, has to be considered, so I don't think those adds were that questionable.
Another example this week was Brandon Marshall, who was hurt enough to worry about but not enough to rule out. He played on Monday fresh off a week where he exploded. He reinjures himself and does zilch.
Yes, there have always been injuries to deal with (I've been playing FF 17 years) but the pace of injuries, the extra caution the NFL is now taking with them, the chicanery coaches use to keep opponents guessing as to whether a player will play or not and if they do how much they should plan to stop them, and Thurs. and Sun. night football has made it very difficult to make reasonable roster/lineup decisions. Preparation and information used to be an edge in FF but seemingly lately have been rendered almost meaningless due to constantly changing conditions and misinformation.
What I like with dailies is:
- playing different strategies
- playing for immediate payouts
- being able to take off weeks here and there if too busy, etc.
- being able see what it's like to own any player you want for a week -- Graham, Calvin, etc.
- not being wedded to a roster that's devastated by injury and out of contention for weeks
For example this week I saw people scrambling to add B. Pierce mid week but by the end of the week he was hurt but not so badly that we knew he'd not play so Taliaferro was now in play and Pierce was even more of a question mark. There will be some snidely remarks about Pierce not being that good to begin with and that those grabbing him were dumb, but with all the turmoil at RB this year any RB with potential, even just for a game, has to be considered, so I don't think those adds were that questionable.
Another example this week was Brandon Marshall, who was hurt enough to worry about but not enough to rule out. He played on Monday fresh off a week where he exploded. He reinjures himself and does zilch.
Yes, there have always been injuries to deal with (I've been playing FF 17 years) but the pace of injuries, the extra caution the NFL is now taking with them, the chicanery coaches use to keep opponents guessing as to whether a player will play or not and if they do how much they should plan to stop them, and Thurs. and Sun. night football has made it very difficult to make reasonable roster/lineup decisions. Preparation and information used to be an edge in FF but seemingly lately have been rendered almost meaningless due to constantly changing conditions and misinformation.
Last edited by a moderator:
BassNBrew
Footballguy
People who invested in Marshall in the dailies mostly lost. No chance to comeback. money flushed down the toilet, season over.
People who invested in Marshall in the yearlies only lost about 6% of his value for the year, probably less when you factor in bye weeks and random down weeks. Those people have the rest of the year to salvage their entry fee.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
Did anyone catch the Real Sports episode last night talking about fanduel? One guy seemed to imply that these sites may not stay legal forever.
just_want_2_win
Footballguy
So wrong. I had Marshall in several dailies and only lost in one of those because the rest of my lineup made up for him.
However, BM's travails the last two weeks has cost me TWO games in the yearlies. He sat in week 2 due to his near certainty to miss the game due to injury and laid an egg in week 3 due to his injury.
I haven't seen the Real Sports episode, but I was wondering why this has not been mentioned. It will have the same fate of online poker. It will come under the guise of protecting the children or terrorists using dailies for money laundering. Unless everyone above is Canadian, you have to know the U.S. is not going to let this go on for too much longer.
Last edited by a moderator:
GreenNGold
Footballguy
No, you cannot be more misinformed. Unlike online poker (which was in a legal grey area for a long time before the government cracked down on it, mainly due to lobbyists funded by land-based casinos trying to stifle competition), there are already laws in place that say daily fantasy sports and sites like fanduel are 100% legal. They are here to stay and it would take an enormous effort to change that.
This has nothing to do with gambling, or right or wrong, but just that the fantasy sports industry (and sports industry) has better lobbyists and more vested interests in making sure this industry stays successful than online poker ever had. If the major casinos such as Wynn, MGM, and Caesars had embraced online poker from the start instead of trying to ban competition/progess like music/movie/cable companies do, online poker/gambling would all be completely legal right now too, just like it is in the rest of the western/modern world, except for of course in the land of the free.
As long as the political landscape remains as it is, this industry will continue to explode as it is the only form of legalized online gambling Americans have access to.
Last edited by a moderator:
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
Basically what the guy says on the show is that the reason it is legal is because of a loophole that was meant to protect the friendly mom and pop fantasy leagues, not for these daily league websites pay out hundreds of millions in prizes. He was a legal expert.
TZMarkie
Footballguy
This is not applicable in the real world.
At least its not if the two people are intelligent.
(if two guys want to keep bucking heads like that until someone is broke, then thats beyond me, but I digress)
As someone who plays poker professionally, I can promise you this rake can and should be examined............. but what you are hoping for is that your "skill and knowledge" on fantasy, is enough to overcome the other player's "skill and knowledge".
I might would "challenge" a fantasy player that I deem is far worse than me to one of these, (an edge greater than the rake???) but no way I would do this type of proposition over and over.
The same is true playing poker, but on a different scale.
Often the rake is 10% up to a $5 max in most cases.
Now, if I were playing someone "heads up" for an extended period of time, certainly the rake will eventually catch us both.
But you try and find spots where your "skill" is greater over the other player, and large enough that it overcomes the rake.
Note that this isn't done all that often, at least in the form of "heads up" challenges its not.
Most pros would much rather sit in full ring games, where their edge is larger and spread out over a field of players.
More explicitly, we wait until scenarios where we can have an edge much larger than what the rake has.
(a quick example might be when I just fold QQ preflop vs a large raise from a sound player, I'm basically saying I can wait and get a better more concrete edge elsewhere against someone else)
That is a simplification, but anyway.
I'm not familiar with these daily sites in general. But I would have to think there are ways to find an edge on those.
Lets face it, there are still plenty of people who don't value fantasy situations correctly and I'm sure the sites are full of those people.
As one of the posters said above, once the players get too tough, the action tends to dry up, and the weaker players get broke.
Its already happened at most of the major online poker sites, long before they closed to U.S. customers a while back.
I remember when sites like Paradise Poker were around and first opened. It was an outright bonanza. People were literally giving money away.
Then near the end, the action on Pokerstars got to be very tough, even in the games that many people had no clue how to play, like Badugi. (not to mention the cheating was rampant, making the games tougher in general too)
I've thought about trying some of these daily sites, but I don't really know if I want to get involved just yet.
Playing in my local leagues is just fine for me. I get the feeling once I start in on the daily leagues, it will become far closer to a job , than it already is.
TZM
Last edited by a moderator:
That is the thing. The political landscape does not remain the same and could and most likely turn against this form of parimutuel gambling. I have not played dailies, and do not want to see them go away, but the bigger it grows the more likely the state will step in to end it.
I personally like the angst and joy of managing an entire season. I can see myself giving dailies a shot, but I will keep on playing traditional leagues.
Last edited by a moderator:
GreenNGold
Footballguy
I don't think it is likely the state steps in here, yes it is possible but there is a lot more resistance to them doing so here than what happened with poker. They have already legalized and regulated it so to back-track on that is a much bigger hurdle than banning something that was never officially legal in the first place. Also, the state is getting their fair share of taxes, not just from the sites, but also from the individual players like us as any player who makes more than $600 in a year needs to submit their tax information to be able to cash out and pay taxes on their winnings, they aren't going to want to lose out on that.
Last edited by a moderator:
The states will only ban this form of gambling if there are any groups who can successfully lobby for it to be banned. Unlike online poker, I don't see any significant groups who stand to benefit from daily fantasy being banned. Brick and mortar casinos aren't hurt in any way by dailies remaining legal, so there's no reason for them to call for banning.jaydarl said:
Joe T
Footballguy
Joe T
Footballguy
leftcoastguy7
Footballguy
Fanduel's ads state they are paying out $10 million each week. If that's the case, how much are they taking in? How much vig are they raking off the table each week? Someone out there is getting really rich on this idea.
In my opinion people that invest any kind of serious money into dailies don't understand math too well.
In my opinion people that invest any kind of serious money into dailies don't understand math too well.
GreenNGold
Footballguy
Alex - FFPC
Footballguy
I think these comments precisely describe the great majority and small minority of current DFS users.
chickensoup
Footballguy
I think you need about a 55.5% win rate to get even with the rake right? (Even bets in 50/50s). This is the part that's crazy to me. I can see riding out $30 over the course of a year, but I could never put significant money into that. In a sense you are not even playing against someone else, you're playing against the house rake via a nameless/faceless other person of unknown knowledge in each matchup.
I'd imagine the success stories come from predominantly old sports books who are way better than almost anyone at predicting games. You know, the guys who made a living off of being correct 52% of the time and are considered awesome at betting sports. Those guys probably make money because they play 1000s of these games a week while normal folk put in 5 hours a week looking at football and toss $20 to see how they do.
On a realistic standpoint, can anyone here promoting this say they consistantly carry a 56%+ win rate over extended games? Maybe a handful of people here, but is guess the stakes are low as well as the games played. Is like to hear a testimonial from someone who has put 1 typical 12 team leagues worth if winnings for 1 year into the pot and doubled up ($800ish in bets and made $800 for first is probably typical)
I'd imagine the success stories come from predominantly old sports books who are way better than almost anyone at predicting games. You know, the guys who made a living off of being correct 52% of the time and are considered awesome at betting sports. Those guys probably make money because they play 1000s of these games a week while normal folk put in 5 hours a week looking at football and toss $20 to see how they do.
On a realistic standpoint, can anyone here promoting this say they consistantly carry a 56%+ win rate over extended games? Maybe a handful of people here, but is guess the stakes are low as well as the games played. Is like to hear a testimonial from someone who has put 1 typical 12 team leagues worth if winnings for 1 year into the pot and doubled up ($800ish in bets and made $800 for first is probably typical)
Marauder
Footballguy
Squintz82
Footballguy
Everyone that is afraid of it becoming illegal, why do you think that? Is it just because of the fate that poker fell to? Or do you have knowlege of major interest that it becomes illegal? Who or what industry exactly is DFS hurting?
Consider the fact that online poker is not illegal. Cashing out through US banks are the issue. You can deposit and play on any online poker site. Also consider that in the state of NJ, there is no issue playing or withdrawing from online poker sites.
I'll consider the legal "expert" on RealSports an expert when he's not trying to play one on TV. Those shows need an opposing view to make the story interesting. If you watched the entire show, he also admitted that the laws follow "where the money goes". For the foreseeable future, daily fantasy sports websites are only going to grow and become backed by larger players.
Consider the fact that online poker is not illegal. Cashing out through US banks are the issue. You can deposit and play on any online poker site. Also consider that in the state of NJ, there is no issue playing or withdrawing from online poker sites.
I'll consider the legal "expert" on RealSports an expert when he's not trying to play one on TV. Those shows need an opposing view to make the story interesting. If you watched the entire show, he also admitted that the laws follow "where the money goes". For the foreseeable future, daily fantasy sports websites are only going to grow and become backed by larger players.
Last edited by a moderator:
TZMarkie
Footballguy
Well, in one sense you are correct, you are "playing against the house rake", but no moreso than if you consider that you are "playing against the cashier window" when you bet at the horse track. If thats how you want to look at it.chickensoup said:
The brass tacks of this is, if you are "smart enough" to generate an edge over your opponent, (thats greater than the house rake) then you should show a long term profit.
I'm sure there are a few who "overall" can do that, and I'm equally sure that there are probably some right here on this board that can do just that.
(now, by OVERALL , I mean a large enough edge on ALL daily activity/tourneys etc..........you can be 100% sure you occasionally enter one that you do NOT have that edge, the competition might simply be tougher, but thats not my point)
Overall edge is what we are looking for.
SQUINTZ82- wrote "Consider the fact that online poker is not illegal. Cashing out through US banks are the issue."
This isn't quite accurate. (trust me I'm not just picking nits here)
Its not simply a matter of cashing out through US banks.... Many of the reputable online sites WILL NOT take a deposit from a U.S. player, simple as that. It doesn't even get to the "cashing out" part.
You absolutely CAN play poker "for free" at some sites, but the vast majority of the bigger name sites won't even take cash deposits anymore.... at least from U.S. customers.
I don't know about you, but I have no desire to sit around playing on the "free chip" tables.
Now, the word I have gotten from a few of my various "poker associates", is there are 1-2 small sites that they have found they can somehow get money into and play, but as far as I know personally, its certainly not any site I would trust.
I don't know exactly how these daily sites work, but I am of the opinion that its exactly like most poker rooms cash games. More often than not, the higher buy-in matches are generally tougher.
This isn't always the case, and even "millionaire whales" drop in to some cash games and leave a chunk, but generally if you are sitting in a $30-$60 stud game, or a $10-$20 NL holdem game, you can bet your ### there are 3-4 players there carving out a living. (or at least supplementing something else)
Now I'm not saying that the highest of those daily tournaments and challenges are full of "pros making a living" there, but you have to guess that as the money gets higher, the competition gets tougher.... at least in general.
One would think that the very small matchups and contests shouldn't be too tough. I'm sure some of the fantasy minds that come here (while being smarter than the general public) should be able to turn a profit in the smaller/easier games.
What often happens in these scenarios, is someone gets himself say a $150 online daily bankroll, and grinds out a decent profit in these smaller things, turning it into lets just say a $500 bankroll.
Then they start playing for more than their bankrolls can rightfully stand, then he enters a few of the $100 type events, loses out and is busted before he knows it.
Thats a bankroll issue, and is a separate topic altogether.
I'd be interested in someones results, if they can "prove" they are turning a fairly sizable profit every week.... like one of the posters mentioned above.
I haven't given much thought to playing in any of these things, but I might a bit later in the season.
TZM
Shutout
Footballguy
One of the things I have learned since starting this thread is how little I actually understood of the house's cut and how much winning you really need to do in order to come out "ahead" in the dailies (assuming you aren't just resigned to throw down some money and spend it, not caring if you win money or not---just playing to play).
Thanks to all the knowledgeable posters on that info. Eye opening to me.
I lean more towards what a few people have said in how the traditional game is just so unpredictable now due to the cautions the league takes, the rules, the injuries, and all the rest. So, I would like to gravitate towards something that I feel like I have more "control" over (Pick different players/not get handcuffed to a player with an injury all year, etc) but it is hard to justify when it looks like you have to be a borderline betting shark to know how to work the system.
I don't necessarily play for the idea of winning money. I just always liked the idea of the strategy and then seeing it pay off (and the money, if it came, was just a nice bonus) but now there's too much work for too little "emotional" payout.
Maybe this is the point in life where men end up doing those things you see in commercials as they get off their arses and go out in the garage and start rebuilding cars or putting boats in the water, building cabins, etc. LOL.
Thanks to all the knowledgeable posters on that info. Eye opening to me.
I lean more towards what a few people have said in how the traditional game is just so unpredictable now due to the cautions the league takes, the rules, the injuries, and all the rest. So, I would like to gravitate towards something that I feel like I have more "control" over (Pick different players/not get handcuffed to a player with an injury all year, etc) but it is hard to justify when it looks like you have to be a borderline betting shark to know how to work the system.
I don't necessarily play for the idea of winning money. I just always liked the idea of the strategy and then seeing it pay off (and the money, if it came, was just a nice bonus) but now there's too much work for too little "emotional" payout.
Maybe this is the point in life where men end up doing those things you see in commercials as they get off their arses and go out in the garage and start rebuilding cars or putting boats in the water, building cabins, etc. LOL.
Squintz82
Footballguy
Good info. I was able to deposit on a large site last year, however I know that the scope changes quickly.
Regardless, online poker has an entirely different set of hurdles that I'm confident DFS will not have to endure.
I just see it as a control thing. It will not be about the gambling per se, but in some guise like money laundering or something like that. All it takes is one politician to get a stick in his behind with some "save the children" crap or an "intelligence" report about "terrorists" using such sites for money laundering. It is refreshing to see that most have more faith than I in our government. Also, all the Joe Blow turning $50 to $250,000 advertising will sooner or later garner increase scrutiny. It is not something I would debate because I would prefer to be on the losing end of it. Hopefully, I will be wrong.Squintz82 said:
lebowski66
Footballguy
Glad this thread was started..some interesting viewpoints. DFS haven't been on my radar till Week 1 this year. I can't even remember my thought process of why I made a deposit (I had a dormant account..joined a free tournament in 2011). Personally, I don't think I'll quit the traditional season-long leagues, I would miss the draft experience too much, especially in the leagues where it's live, and you re-connect with people you might only see once a year.
I don't know where I'll put my fantasy time in next year, to be honest. I'm really frustrated and racked with injuries in 2 of my 3 leagues this season, and I have really bad playoff karma, so usually by December, I'm fed up, but I always come crawling back to the traditional leagues, and then some. I just love fantasy football too much to give up the season-long process of draft preparation/trades/WW pick-ups, etc. Regardless of the new kid in the league having all the same info I do at his finger-tips, it's still fun, and it's never really been about the $.
I'm coming from a unique position now. Not sure if FanDuel's marketing finally penetrated my brain, but I made a deposit in Week 1, carefully made some lineups, spread across different contests, and doubled my money. I figured this is the way to play, spread things around, build up some $ throughout the season. Hey, this is easy! Week 2, I hit the lineup to end (almost) all lineups, and won a ridiculous (to me) amount of cash. I'm thinking I'm doing this for life now, screw the traditional leagues. After overthinking everything last week in Week 3, I barely (and luckily) broke even. Basically trying to say, with money involved during each contest, it's hard to look at the DFS as nothing more than a gambling/lottery form of entertainment. If I bust this week, I'm done. That's my view- I'm sure there's very skilled players who can keep their initial investment going through the NFL playoffs.
While I think both forms of fantasy can co-exist, I do think the traditionals will always stick around, and eventually win out. With the amount of $ changing hands in the DFS, someone is going to screw this thing up for everybody, whether that's a politician, or someone finding an angle working the system to the point where it's no fun for anyone. The traditional fantasy leagues continue to enjoy that perfect combination of skill and luck, and in most cases, comraderie and healthy competition.
I don't know where I'll put my fantasy time in next year, to be honest. I'm really frustrated and racked with injuries in 2 of my 3 leagues this season, and I have really bad playoff karma, so usually by December, I'm fed up, but I always come crawling back to the traditional leagues, and then some. I just love fantasy football too much to give up the season-long process of draft preparation/trades/WW pick-ups, etc. Regardless of the new kid in the league having all the same info I do at his finger-tips, it's still fun, and it's never really been about the $.
I'm coming from a unique position now. Not sure if FanDuel's marketing finally penetrated my brain, but I made a deposit in Week 1, carefully made some lineups, spread across different contests, and doubled my money. I figured this is the way to play, spread things around, build up some $ throughout the season. Hey, this is easy! Week 2, I hit the lineup to end (almost) all lineups, and won a ridiculous (to me) amount of cash. I'm thinking I'm doing this for life now, screw the traditional leagues. After overthinking everything last week in Week 3, I barely (and luckily) broke even. Basically trying to say, with money involved during each contest, it's hard to look at the DFS as nothing more than a gambling/lottery form of entertainment. If I bust this week, I'm done. That's my view- I'm sure there's very skilled players who can keep their initial investment going through the NFL playoffs.
While I think both forms of fantasy can co-exist, I do think the traditionals will always stick around, and eventually win out. With the amount of $ changing hands in the DFS, someone is going to screw this thing up for everybody, whether that's a politician, or someone finding an angle working the system to the point where it's no fun for anyone. The traditional fantasy leagues continue to enjoy that perfect combination of skill and luck, and in most cases, comraderie and healthy competition.
Last edited by a moderator:
ebsteelers
Footballguy
I would love for a site that gives advice to also give advice to the players on how to make sure they are properly doing their taxes with dfs income if they go over the 600 dollar mark
17seconds
root of all aliai
Steve Buzzard
Moderator
Really great discussions by a lot of people here. From my own perspective I cut my season long leagues in about half this year and I suspect I will cut them down significantly nex year too. The draft is the best part of the season long games and you can't really replicate that in daily games no matter how hard they try to say you can. That said the fun and challenges of daily games out way those of season long for me. Not to mention the monetary benefits.
GregR
Footballguy
The CEO of Fanduel had an online Q&A session where he mentioned they had 500k active participants and he felt with overlap in the userbase there probably were about 600k people playing dailies industry-wide.
The FSTA estimates 33 million people play fantasy football.
So using those numbers, daily is about 2% of the fantasy space. I imagine that will grow, but I don't think daily is going to ever outstrip traditional fantasy football in numbers. I think the majority of FF players are not into it hardcore enough they would replace it with daily. But financially it's going to be a huge part of the industry because it will draw the people who are most in it for the money.
The FSTA estimates 33 million people play fantasy football.
So using those numbers, daily is about 2% of the fantasy space. I imagine that will grow, but I don't think daily is going to ever outstrip traditional fantasy football in numbers. I think the majority of FF players are not into it hardcore enough they would replace it with daily. But financially it's going to be a huge part of the industry because it will draw the people who are most in it for the money.
Shutout
Footballguy
Sometimes. But sometimes its: The
I'm not for or against either format. Really just noticed the buzz of dailies at this time and want to learn more but one component I think is hard to argue around for the dailies is that in the seasonal format, we can be sitting here on the 1st day of October knowing your entire effort is shot and there is nothing left to play for. In the dailies you can reboot.
TZMarkie
Footballguy
You have stumbled across the one thing that is making me "re-examine" my thoughts on these daily leagues.
A few times over the years, some bad luck has contributed to me not being interested in seriously paying attention to a league or two after say week 10 or 11.
Contrast that to one guy who called me earlier today about a trade.
(I texted a friend of mine about getting a certain owner to contact me for a trade, then this joker called me less than 60 seconds later)
Anyway, what I'm leading up to, is this guy is 0-4, hence the reason for immediate contact about a trade.. Barring an extremely unlikely run, this guy knows he is going to be out of it pretty soon, if not already.
These daily leagues gives pretty much anyone hope and this guy would be a great candidate, in another 2 weeks if he doesn't make a big turnaround.
One would think, that the casual "smart" FF player, if there is such an animal, in time would want to take part in both regular traditional leagues and also daily action online.
The more posts I read on this, the more guys here seem to be enjoying both the daily action, and the more traditional season long formats too.
So the "smart casual FF player" here is indeed getting more interested in the daily action.
Also note, that if you are trying to actually turn a profit and "grow a bankroll" through fantasy football action, this daily action is also a way of diversification and is a way to generate income late season, in the event some of your traditional yearly leagues fizzle out early. (this assumes you are actually winning player that can show a long term edge)
ALSO - An above poster mentioned "they advertise they pay out over $10 million daily".
Remember this is no different that a casino, which may have a sign saying "our slot machines pay out over $10 million daily".
True, they may pay out over $10 million daily, but their incoming take might be $11 million per day. (leading to a $1 million per day profit)
This is a crude example, but its not too far from the truth.
I would personally like to see about how much a given site might make each day.
I'm sure there are people here who could take an educated guess. It wouldn't be too hard, just estimate how many tournaments and daily leagues (of each size) then come up with a figure for the rake.
Those familiar with the sites should have a decent grasp on this, with a little bit of digging.
Several internet poker associates I knew came up with an approximate figure years ago on a leading online poker site.
They simply took the average number of tables at a given size and rake, and added that with all the other size games and varieties. They then came up with an "average number of games/rake" and different times of day, multiple times over a month and came up with a number that was well into the millions every day.
The more I think about this, the more inclined I am to actually give some of these sites a try soon, then come out swinging next season and seriously try and win some real money.
Of course, if I do, then I would keep detailed records.
TZM
GregR
Footballguy
If I were going to go play daily games for the money, I'd be hitting it heavy early in the season when the weak players haven't busted out yet. Late in the year I would expect those still playing to be the stronger players.
Alonzo Mosely
Footballguy
I'll take the over whatever it is.
TZMarkie
Footballguy
You are correct, in that many of the late season daily players might be stronger. The weaker ones tend to bust out, much like in online poker and in anything in life I suppose.
But also factor in that late season, many of the people who have already "busted out" in their yearly local leagues would be interested in this too.
Specifically "new players" to the online scene, looking to get their "fantasy fix" in before the season ends, but after they have failed in their yearly leagues.
So at least in theory some of the "weaker" players would be coming in to the party later in the season as well.
(this is a general ism, can we agree that typically the ones who bust out early are "generally" the weaker players correct??)
I think what we both are saying, in vague terms, is the action should still be good on the daily sites...........for the smart player who seeks value.
One thing that I think is very similar to what Greg is saying............ is I believe one of our stronger points in the early season daily leagues, would be how to correctly identify good value in players, especially in players the general public might not be familiar with at that point in the season.
This would be especially strong in the first few weeks of the season, if we knew how to more properly evaluate matchups and offenses moreso than the general public.
Example- Bishop Sankey is one who generated alot of preseason buzz, and he was drafted much higher than what he should have been. If we as a community had known to avoid him up front , then we should have tried to get value elsewhere. He isn't a great example though, because I don't think he was started widely in the early weeks, but you should see my point.... he was drafted heavily and many of us knew to steer clear until later in the season.
Also realize that if you are a so-called "winning player", then getting every opportunity to generate an edge/ profit means you should be seeking out these daily sites, and essentially all the leagues we can enter, within reason.
I have to admit that I know very little about these sites,(since I have never played on any) but if I were trying to actually make a serious amount of money on fantasy, I would have to AT LEAST consider trying these things on a regular basis.
I might have to try and get in on the action within the next week or so.
TZM
Phantom Knight
Footballguy
This is where I fall. I get enjoyment out of building something, so dynasty is my cup of tea. For me personally, I would only consider the daily format as a way to make money. That is, it would become work as opposed to a hobby. I don't come to FF looking for more work.
I do this for fun, not to make money. I play in zero money leagues.
I would get bored with dailies real fast. I enjoy buidling a dynasty team and trying to win that championship.
Similar threads
