Politician Spock
Footballguy
I don't know about that. Studying apologetics was the time when I got to the point where I said this is just too ridiculous to be true. The more I studied, the dumber it got.proninja said:
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HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE! Read This First Post, THEN Q & A Discussion! ASK QUESTIONS HERE! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Paddington
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And the smarter you got apparently. Two things for me; education and travel. I was the first person in my immediate family to graduate from college, go figure. Then I went back for another degree. What's that Mark Twain quote that Rick Steve's likes to use?; travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow mindedness.
Maybe, but I do know you actually have to travel. You can't really understand the how and why people are without experiencing it first hand. And I'm just talking around different places in America in my case. I can just imagine living in different parts for the world for extended periods of time, maybe some day.proninja said:
Not going into too much detail but the group of friends I ran around with while growing up fall into two distinct categories: those who got away and those who are still there***. Every time we get together for those of us that did we reflect on how lucky were are. For me I was lucky to move around to different parts of the country because of my job and I wouldn't trade that for anything right now.
***And that doesn't necessarily have to do with religion either, other than I can draw parallels to it.
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Politician Spock
Footballguy
Christianity taught me to be a bigot. I remember all the crap we were fed about homosexuals, like love the sinner/hate the sin. I've recently watched some documentaries on the gay community over the past few decades, and I was in tears from the conviction I felt for all the crap they went through because so many people like me created a world around them that was a living hell. I'm not kidding. I broke down in tears in front of my TV. It's not something you can ever fix. And given I'm still in the chrisitian community, when gays got the right to marry, my facebook feed became a slew of "the world is ending" and "god is going to let America be destroyed" and all kinds of crap like that. Religion is a very, VERY dangerous thing.
Amen brother.
We could talk about oppression of women too. We almost had a women president, how long until we see a women pope? They talk about the family unit to explain it off in the modern day, but, that doesn't quite jive very well with all the passages in the good book. Did you know that Mormon women cannot get into the highest level of heaven without being married to and being brought there by their husband? Pretty sickening stuff. Most definitely a religion made by man.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Don't forget centuries of people living their entire lives as slaves, because Paul condoned it.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
Bump. Bobby seems to have bailed on this, or perhaps has been too busy to respond. Can anyone else address this? It was a key component for me personally when I fell off the rails of religion.
If we humans evolved just like every other animal, which is a simple truth based on scientific study, when and how did we become special? Why do we have a soul, and other animals don't? How exactly does a religious person reconcile this while still accepting scientific truth?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Pretty much my situation. I even went so far as to leave my career, get rid of all my possessions and became a missionary. Some of my happiest memories are the friendship I made in bible college and feeling like we were about to embark on a journey to make the world a better place. Looking back I can see I was engaging in a sort of voluntary brainwashing. Once I was exposed to the business side and the money making aspect of missions the bubble burst and I began to do some objective research and it was all over at that point.
It sort of felt like learning how a magic trick is done. Once you know the illusion doesn't impress you at all. So many Christians seem to me like people simply saying don't tell me how the trick is done, I'm enjoying the show.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't believe this. I've never been a Christian, but I don't think there is any aspect of Christianity that leads to bigotry. I suspect you were taught to be a bigot by other bigoted people who used their religion as an excuse to justify their bigotry.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Too lazy to look up my Top 25,000 thread, but in a way this fits perfectly here (cause it's straight from God). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWXKTQZdYuU
Jayrok
Footballguy
Similar timing for me. Crisis leads to hunting for answers that satisfy points of view. Before long you realize how silly the rabbit hole can be. You find yourself saying "well now you're just making stuff up."
Politician Spock
Footballguy
You also didn't believe the NSA was doing anything wrong.timschochet said:
The guy who wrote most of the new testament, Paul, was clearly a bigot. One could easily dismiss that by saying he was just reflecting the culture at the time. But when his words are elevated to "god's word" then the god of the religion is a bigot. There are denominations of christianity that have gotten away from some of the bigotry that the bible teaches, not because they've found a way to interpret the bible in such a way that the bigotry is not there, but because they willingly accept tradition to be as important to doctrine as the bible. Catholicism is a good example of that, although they still have some steps to take to rid themselves entirely of biblical bigotry. The literal interpretations of the bible (like many evangelic protestants use) produce the highest degree of christian bigotry, so yes I'm 100% confident to disagree with you that there is any aspect of christianity that leads to bigotry. One has to NOT take the bible literally in order to avoid the bigotry.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
What the hell did I just watch?Mister CIA said:
I think I might have appreciated some of the lyrics but I was too distracted by a bunny rabbit duct tapped to a guy's knee.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
Australopithicus didn't have a soul. Homo Habilis did.The silence is deafening on my line of questioning.
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Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
I am no longer a member of any religious denomination; however, I was raised Catholic and spent 12 years in Catholic school. The high school I attended was run by a Jesuit branch, which has a tradition of scientific leaning. The answer they gave us was this (paraphrased):The silence is deafening on my line of questioning.
"Belief in science does not need to contradict with our religious teachings here. Humans evolved, just like every other animal on the planet, in their outer form...the body. However, humans are created in the image of God in their inner form...the soul."
Not sure how satisfying that answer is, but it is all I've got.
EDIT: Oh, just want to clarify, I have heard other explanations, from other spiritual perspectives, but this is all I've got from traditional Catholic teachings.
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CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
Thanks but that makes no sense in the context of evolution over millions of years. Unless they're saying the soul was in there somewhere in a primitive life form. What happened to the soul of the rat-like creature in our evolutionary past?I am no longer a member of any religious denomination; however, I was raised Catholic and spent 12 years in Catholic school. The high school I attended was run by a Jesuit branch, which has a tradition of scientific leaning. The answer they gave us was this (paraphrased):
"Belief in science does not need to contradict with our religious teachings here. Humans evolved, just like every other animal on the planet, in their outer form...the body. However, humans are created in the image of God in their inner form...the soul."
Not sure how satisfying that answer is, but it is all I've got.
EDIT: Oh, just want to clarify, I have heard other explanations, from other spiritual perspectives, but this is all I've got from traditional Catholic teachings.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
According to my Catholic teachers, the soul is eternal...outside of space-time. In fact, it was what drove the external (within space-time) evolution, even though it was never internally a part of the evolving material body.
According to them, the soul, being eternal and outside of space-time, does not need to conform to "in-time-space" standards of logic. Part of the divine mystery. More simply, since the soul was never a part of the body, it never was part of that which was being evolved , nor necessarily a part of earlier species. Though the Jesuits were scientifically inclined, the were never "materialists". Mine were more "dualist" inclined, thus, they never had a philosophical issue with such a separation of the body and soul.
Also, need to add, biology was one of my majors, so I am in no way trying to argue that point. Rather, I am trying to convey how I was instructed on such things when I was in the system.
joffer
Footballguy
No. Chimps obviously diverged from homo sapien lineage (6-8 million years ago) before the soul popped up.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
My bad. I ruined my joke by using a bad example.
If only there were a way to identify that transitional species that illustrates the development of the soul.
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CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
I was raised Catholic too, and I don't remember any of that. Maybe I zoned out during that part in science class and instead had gymnastics fail videos running through my mind.
joffer
Footballguy
Maybe in the appendix?My bad. I ruined my joke by using a bad example.
If only there were a way to identify that transitional species that illustrates the development of he soul.
Man of Constant Sorrow
Footballguy
My high school was not "traditional" in many/most ways of formally held Catholic dogma. Not only was it Jesuit inspired, it was considered very liberal by the local churches. Also, we learned this in our religion class, not the science classes...NO religion showed up in any classes other than the 1 religion class per semester (edit: it met daily, 1 course per semester is my intent). IOW, our biology classes taught evolution only, never any creationism at all. Then, our religion classes brought in science in order to reconcile religion with the science...and...no creationism here at all either...still full on evolution...just with the merging of the soul as I outlined above.
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Politician Spock
Footballguy
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Delmar O'Donnell: Oh son, for that you sold your everlasting soul?
Tommy Johnson: Well, I wasn't usin' it.
Tommy Johnson: Well, I wasn't usin' it.
Paddington
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Paddington
Footballguy
Please take the time to read this first post.
butcher boy
Footballguy
If you need any proof that Christianity is just another man made religion aka a fraud just look at the classical depiction of Jesus. He's depicted as a white man no doubt defined like this to appeal to the white people of Europe at the time and make it easier for them to accept Christ and thus easier to control the general populace. The reality is that Jesus was a brown man. Christianity is fiction written by people in power as a means to control the plebs. Plain and simple.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
I agree. Using it to control the general populace didn't begin until the 4th century. It's not why christianity was created.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
One year ago I wrote this in my ? journal:
"Your insecurities are arguments with God. He is telling you that you are loved and forgiven, but your insecurities are trying to convince Him you are the one person the gospel doesn’t apply to. The good news is, God is going to win those arguments in the end. He always does."
"Your insecurities are arguments with God. He is telling you that you are loved and forgiven, but your insecurities are trying to convince Him you are the one person the gospel doesn’t apply to. The good news is, God is going to win those arguments in the end. He always does."
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Insecurities have nothing to do with god.
They are psychological
Making them a spiritual issue is done by those who push religion on others.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
God loves you and He is for you.
Somehow, the soul, spirit, heart, conscience, mind, psychology are all connected and interrelated.
I don't understand how exactly. Does anyone? Does it matter?
I don't understand, precisely, how the subway works. I mean I studied basic electricity and electronics decades ago so I have a framework of understanding. But I take most of it in faith. It works. That's enough.
The card ? reader works. I don't know exactly how the info is stored or read. I have a basic understanding, but nowhere near mastery. That does not prevent me from enjoying it every day.
God loves you and is for you. There's a lot of mystery in those simple words. I don't understand all of it. But it works. He shows up every day.
He speaks to us through his word, through others, and we see evidence of the Holy Spirit working in transforming lives and renewing hearts. Jesus is alive and we are seeing the Spirit poured out.
God is for you.
Somehow, the soul, spirit, heart, conscience, mind, psychology are all connected and interrelated.
I don't understand how exactly. Does anyone? Does it matter?
I don't understand, precisely, how the subway works. I mean I studied basic electricity and electronics decades ago so I have a framework of understanding. But I take most of it in faith. It works. That's enough.
The card ? reader works. I don't know exactly how the info is stored or read. I have a basic understanding, but nowhere near mastery. That does not prevent me from enjoying it every day.
God loves you and is for you. There's a lot of mystery in those simple words. I don't understand all of it. But it works. He shows up every day.
He speaks to us through his word, through others, and we see evidence of the Holy Spirit working in transforming lives and renewing hearts. Jesus is alive and we are seeing the Spirit poured out.
God is for you.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
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"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." -RD
Exhibit A:
Card readers store information by the use of magnetism, it codes tiny iron-based magnetic particles contained within the strip.
Boggles my mind that people use their own lack of understanding of simple physics to justify their belief in imaginary beings.
Exhibit A:
Subways are run with electric engines, power in the form of electricity is delivered through overhead cantenary wires or a third rail underneath the train.
Card readers store information by the use of magnetism, it codes tiny iron-based magnetic particles contained within the strip.
Boggles my mind that people use their own lack of understanding of simple physics to justify their belief in imaginary beings.
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Captain Cranks
Footballguy
What's the over/under on number of people saved by this thread? I'll set it at 0.
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dgreen
Footballguy
What? Do you think @BobbyLayne is saying that his lack of understanding of how subways work is the reason he believes in God?
Politician Spock
Footballguy
You don't need to understand how a subway works anymore than you need to know how psychology works. You can trust subway engineers and psychologists to understand them for you.
Lack of understanding of how a subway works doesn't justify claiming that it must be powered by magic invisible beings.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Not to speak on behalf of tonydead, but lack of understanding of how the heart, conscience, mind, psychology are all connected and interrelated is a reason why many different people believe in many different religions, and why some even believe people have a soul and spirit.
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Politician Spock
Footballguy
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