If Cutler had a O-Line (1 Viewer)

[geoff8695]

I was listening to sirius nfl today and they had a breakdown of his sacks --- 3 of the 9 he held the ball 6+ seconds, and another 3 were blitzers that he didn't spot.

Gee why is that? What could possibly account for arguably the NFC's best passer going into week 4 being unable to see blitzers, open receivers, or throw the ball away rather than being subjected to a record setting number of sacks?In each of the three prior games he was subjected to similar pressure, and yet he managed to put up impressive stats and get rid of the ball/find open receivers. For some reason on Sunday night he was completely unable to do so. What was so different?Perhaps it was at least in part because of the concussion. On one of the early sacks on Sunday night he actually went to the WRONG sideline to leave the field of play. Unfortunately his decision making skills were likely affected/impaired and probalby help to explain why he wasn't able to process what was going on and get rid of the ball or find an open receiver.

 

[Zdravko]

This thing is blown way out of proportion here. I am not sure what are all those blitzes being referred to here. The Giants rushed only four a lot of the time and played excellent coverage. Cutler's plays were dialed up as mostly long routes, so he had to wait for someone to get open. Most times no one got open.

Should he have checked down more? Heck, yeah. Should his poor O-line be able to hold four rushers? Probably. Should his OC do much better with the play selection? Affirmative.

But too much is made out of the nine sacks. This is just a QB getting lit up and eventually concussed by a superb defense, bad play-calling and sub-par O-line. Cutler is no Manning or Brees, but is still a franchise QB and has performed as such early in his career. His vision is not that great, so he missed a couple easy checkdowns while looking for the dialed-up play. No biggie - maybe even somewhat understandable, given the shell-shock a first-quarter pinada beating causes to most QBs. Overall, Cutler is progressing fine and will improve further with time. Nothing more to see here.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

He had a pretty nice year in 2008. Why dont you continue to list the other 25 year old QBs who have thrown for 4500 yds and 25 TDs in a season. The guy was still learning the game, and while talented, this Bears team is not the 2008 Broncos

4500 yards and 25 tds dont mean too much if you throw 18 picks and are constantly picked off in the redzone.

40% of those picks came when they were trailing by 2+ scores because they were playing with such a pitifully awful defense. It's a lot easier to throw picks when you're forced to air it out against a defense that is playing pass all the way.Look, say what you want about Cutler's other seasons, but anyone saying that Cutler's 2008 season was anything short of extraordinarily good is not a football fan. Cutler haters love to bring up wins so often, so why not here? The average win percentage of other teams in recent memory that had a defense as bad as the 2008 Broncos is .200. Cutler went 8-8 (.500) with that defense. In fact, the ONLY qbs in the last 5 years to win more than 5 games with a defense that bad were Jay Cutler and Kurt Warner. Even further, the Broncos 8 wins in 2008 were more than DOUBLE the number of wins of all but two of the teams that fell into that category.And by the way, Warner turned the ball over 21 times the year he did it as well (1 more than Cutler). Turnovers happen when you have an awful defense but an offense that's good enough to not give up and run the clock out.If you want to call Cutler a 1-year wonder who hasn't had a good year outside of 2008, be my guest. But anyone trying to find fault with his 2008 season has some serious blinders on. Denver going 8-8 that year was remarkable.

 

[CalBear]

He had a pretty nice year in 2008. Why dont you continue to list the other 25 year old QBs who have thrown for 4500 yds and 25 TDs in a season.

Aside from Cutler, it's Dan Marino (twice), Drew Bledsoe, and Neil Lomax.So, he could be an all-time great, he could be a long-term underacheiver and stat compiler, or he could be a slightly above average QB.I'll take door #3, Monte.

 

[gradin123]

Let's see the guy get back from this concussion before we critique his play too much. I think it was obvious he sustained the concussion earlier than his last sack on Sunday and then he got his head bounced on the turf again. Some of the most dangerous concussions occur when a player gets hit while already concussed. Concussions are a funny thing, look no further than Justin Morneau for that, how long has he been out? The day after his injury it was called a mild concussion too. Cutler's concussion was suppose to be mild yet something went wrong yesterday or today that caused him to be out.

Will he be back next week? They say it is likely but they also said it was likely he would play this week just yesterday.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I was listening to sirius nfl today and they had a breakdown of his sacks --- 3 of the 9 he held the ball 6+ seconds, and another 3 were blitzers that he didn't spot.

Gee why is that?

'cuz he sux.

Will he be back next week? They say it is likely

I thought they said he's out.

40% of those picks came when they were trailing by 2+ scores because they were playing with such a pitifully awful defense. It's a lot easier to throw picks when you're forced to air it out against a defense that is playing pass all the way.Look, say what you want about Cutler's other seasons, but anyone saying that Cutler's 2008 season was anything short of extraordinarily good is not a football fan. Cutler haters love to bring up wins so often, so why not here? The average win percentage of other teams in recent memory that had a defense as bad as the 2008 Broncos is .200. Cutler went 8-8 (.500) with that defense. In fact, the ONLY qbs in the last 5 years to win more than 5 games with a defense that bad were Jay Cutler and Kurt Warner. Even further, the Broncos 8 wins in 2008 were more than DOUBLE the number of wins of all but two of the teams that fell into that category.

huzzah!!here are the opponent point totals in his wins:14, 38, 32, 13, 30, 20, 17. 17I'll give him credit for overcoming a horrible defense on 3 of those --- .200 of 16 is about 3.the rest of the year his horrible defense had to overcome a horrible pick machine.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

haha....I'm not saying the '08 broncos defense didn't cost them games, but cutler needs to raise his hand on those picks.

the knock on him, among other things, is that he's not a winner and not a leader.

in 2008 they failed to produce a winning season, going 8-8 -- cutler had his o-line and his stud wr, but let sd take the division on a tiebreaker, falling just a single win short.

in a loss against kc that year he threw 2 picks in the 3rd quarter with the score at 16-13.

the jax game he lost was decided by one score and he threw his pick in the first quarter with the score 7-3.

he lost the buffalo game by one score, getting picked off on buffalo's 15, following 2 incompletions to set up 3 and 10.

in the miami game, which he ended up losing by 9, he got picked off on the first drive on his own 20, his defense only giving up the fg --- the score was 0-0 at the time...

with the score 16-10 he opened the 4th quarter of that game by throwing a pick from his own 15 --- his defense once again holding miami to the fg.

that's half their 8 losses right there, when they only needed a single game!!

so, I don't want to hear any more of this ridiculous nonsense about how the sorry defense forces him to throw all those picks, how the sorry o-line can't keep him clean for 10 seconds on a throw, or how the sorry receivers can't get 10 yds separation.

funny how the bears sorry o-line gave up 9 sacks with cutler in the game and only 1 after he left --- but maybe the whole world's just out to get him.

edit ps

and while I'm at it, they got beat by oakland that year with cutler completing 43% of his throws for 200 yds, 0 td, 1 pick, and a 50 qb rating.

 

[BRONG]

I thought the same thing. Completely amazed he kept calling those plays. The WRs did nothing but run deep.

Not all of them. On a few of those sacks, Cutler had a man wide open short...and refused to check it down.Martz' system brings more sacks, but Cutler is causing some of them. His WR's are NOT bad at all....in fact...I'd say they were at least average (as a group).

Are you talking about the one inside a minute left to go in the half when they were trying to go 81 yards? Is that the one you wanted him to check down on? Handing the ball off or taking a knee would have been great at that point in the game too. If a draw play had been called instead of ANOTHER deep route from your own 19, maybe Cutler wouldn't feel pressure to drive 81 yards in 58 seconds in a game where he's already been sacked 8 times. That's stupid. That's bad play calling. That was dangerous and Cutler paid the price.The receivers aren't anywhere close to average. This is how bad they are: None of them would make the Cowboys roster as a wide receiver.

81 yards? The game was close, they just needed to get into field goal range, but whatever...You do anything and everything it takes to protect your hero at all costs -- more than anyone on here that I have ever seen...and that is saying A LOT. You come across as a crappy, desperate lawyer, always reaching. In the process, your opinion on Cutler is beyond laughable. And I can't be the only one that usually skips over it now. The irony is that your Cutler mission, in the end, is hurt by it. You know that, right?

BRONG,The "Cutler Mission" isn't affected by anything I write here. Kindly ease up on the personal stuff. I won't refer to you as desperate or crappy. If you'd extend me the same courtesy, I'd appreciate it.In the last minute of the half this year, I have seen two of the best young arms in the game go down with ridiculous attempts to hold the ball too long and then heave the ball a country mile to try to get some late-breaking points. Play the Matt Stafford tape at the end of the first half of the Lions first game. The Cutler one has already been mentioned. Tony Romo's idiotic "pass" at the end of the first half in the Dallas/Washington game could have just as easily gotten him or Choice pointlessly hurt. There's no reason to try this stuff, least of all when you're having the stuffing beaten out of you. That's really my point.These are the three plays I'm talking about:STAFFORD29 seconds left in the half: (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford sacked at DET 36 for -9 yards (J.Peppers). FUMBLES (J.Peppers)CUTLER58 seconds left to go in the half: J.Cutler sacked at CHI 12 for -7 yards (A.Ross).ROMO4 seconds left to go in the half: (Shotgun) T.Romo pass short right to T.Choice to DAL 37 for 1 yard (D.Hall). FUMBLES (D.Hall), RECOVERED by WAS-D.Hall at DAL 32. D.Hall for 32 yards, TOUCHDOWN.A traditional offense would suit Jay's talents fine. With his arm, he doesn't need Martz. There's a reason nobody else is running this stuff. He will succeed in this offense, but he's going to take a lot of shots doing it and pick up some "skills" that won't transfer to the next offense.

Buddy, I have never read anyone on here more vigilant about proving a player's greatness more than you. Ever. That was my point, and it was not personal. I didn't refer to you directly as desperate or crappy, I simply said you come across like that...like a lawyer who won't quit. That's not personal, just an observation, no need to embellish.Look, my point is that you end up discrediting yourself with the endless attempts to prove how great 'a talent Jay Cutler is. I just think you'd be better served by not continuously digging up every last shred of evidence you can find to defend each and every miscue. It's unbelievable. It causes many readers to look right past your posts, I have to think. I mean, how many times on here do you say/admit when he makes mistakes? You do know he makes mistakes, right?

 

[Widbil83]

I was listening to sirius nfl today and they had a breakdown of his sacks --- 3 of the 9 he held the ball 6+ seconds, and another 3 were blitzers that he didn't spot.

Gee why is that? What could possibly account for arguably the NFC's best passer going into week 4 being unable to see blitzers, open receivers, or throw the ball away rather than being subjected to a record setting number of sacks?In each of the three prior games he was subjected to similar pressure, and yet he managed to put up impressive stats and get rid of the ball/find open receivers. For some reason on Sunday night he was completely unable to do so. What was so different?Perhaps it was at least in part because of the concussion. On one of the early sacks on Sunday night he actually went to the WRONG sideline to leave the field of play. Unfortunately his decision making skills were likely affected/impaired and probalby help to explain why he wasn't able to process what was going on and get rid of the ball or find an open receiver.

Right on the money.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I was listening to sirius nfl today and they had a breakdown of his sacks --- 3 of the 9 he held the ball 6+ seconds, and another 3 were blitzers that he didn't spot.

Gee why is that? What could possibly account for arguably the NFC's best passer going into week 4 being unable to see blitzers, open receivers, or throw the ball away rather than being subjected to a record setting number of sacks?In each of the three prior games he was subjected to similar pressure, and yet he managed to put up impressive stats and get rid of the ball/find open receivers. For some reason on Sunday night he was completely unable to do so. What was so different?

by the way, what.....?

 

[BRONG]

I was listening to sirius nfl today and they had a breakdown of his sacks --- 3 of the 9 he held the ball 6+ seconds, and another 3 were blitzers that he didn't spot.

Gee why is that? What could possibly account for arguably the NFC's best passer going into week 4 being unable to see blitzers, open receivers, or throw the ball away rather than being subjected to a record setting number of sacks?In each of the three prior games he was subjected to similar pressure, and yet he managed to put up impressive stats and get rid of the ball/find open receivers. For some reason on Sunday night he was completely unable to do so. What was so different?

Perhaps it was at least in part because of the concussion. On one of the early sacks on Sunday night he actually went to the WRONG sideline to leave the field of play. Unfortunately his decision making skills were likely affected/impaired and probalby help to explain why he wasn't able to process what was going on and get rid of the ball or find an open receiver.

Right on the money.

Of course he's right on the money, you're a Bears fan, and awesome Jay, the NFC's BEST PASSER, is the victim of a bad offensive line. Or a bad coach. Or a bad coordinator that doesn't understand. Or bad receivers. Or a bad running game. Or the weather, when that happens...

 

[geoff8695]

Reading is a skill...

I said Cutler was arguably the NFC's best passer through the 1st three weeks. Statistically speaking this is true. It's not Cutler love/apologist/or whatever misplaced label you want to throw around.

Generally speaking the best QBs in the NFC are considered to be Rodgers and Brees. However, through the 1st three weeks Cutler had thrown for more yards, than Rodgers or Brees and had as many or more TDs with the fewest INTs and the highest QB rating of the three. For anyone to base their criticisms of Cutler on his 2010 performance is ludicrous. Those of you who are going out of their way to do so are looking very foolish at the moment. The 1st three games he performed at an elite level, and the 4th one he played with a concussion which is why it was a complete train wreck, and unfortunately sustained additional brain trauma after the concussion.

Since the worst thing a concussed person can do is sustain additional blows to the brain - it may be a much longer recovery time than any anticipated. The Bears coaching staff should have pulled him from the game immediately following his trip to the WRONG sideline, rather than letting him 'tough it out', if you want to say someone in this situation 'sux' or is to blame for Cutler missing extended time, look no further than Lovie Smith and Mike Martz.

 

[BRONG]

Reading is a skill...I said Cutler was arguably the NFC's best passer through the 1st three weeks. Statistically speaking this is true. It's not Cutler love/apologist/or whatever misplaced label you want to throw around.Generally speaking the best QBs in the NFC are considered to be Rodgers and Brees. However, through the 1st three weeks Cutler had thrown for more yards, than Rodgers or Brees and had as many or more TDs with the fewest INTs and the highest QB rating of the three. For anyone to base their criticisms of Cutler on his 2010 performance is ludicrous. Those of you who are going out of their way to do so are looking very foolish at the moment. The 1st three games he performed at an elite level, and the 4th one he played with a concussion which is why it was a complete train wreck, and unfortunately sustained additional brain trauma after the concussion. Since the worst thing a concussed person can do is sustain additional blows to the brain - it may be a much longer recovery time than any anticipated. The Bears coaching staff should have pulled him from the game immediately following his trip to the WRONG sideline, rather than letting him 'tough it out', if you want to say someone in this situation 'sux' or is to blame for Cutler missing extended time, look no further than Lovie Smith and Mike Martz.

LOL at the 3-game sample you keep pointing to when trying to illustrate his "elite" or, best NFC passer (this year) status ...while at the same time calling anyone who bases their criticisms only on his 2010 performances, ludicrous. Talk about foolish...

 

[CaptainHook]

he did NOT look good against the packers.

fyi this morning trent green the ex martz qb broke down video and blamed cutler for the sacks

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

he did NOT look good against the packers.fyi this morning trent green the ex martz qb broke down video and blamed cutler for the sacks

hahahaha....trent green is making himself look foolish!!!what a hater!!

 

[switz]

he did NOT look good against the packers.

fyi this morning trent green the ex martz qb broke down video and blamed cutler for the sacks

hahahaha....trent green is making himself look foolish!!!what a hater!!

Yeah, cuz if anyone points out Cutler's flaws, they're a hater....Trent Green knows Martz's offense, he's prety well qualified to show what Cutler should have done... but clearly didn't.

 

[switz]

He had a pretty nice year in 2008. Why dont you continue to list the other 25 year old QBs who have thrown for 4500 yds and 25 TDs in a season. The guy was still learning the game, and while talented, this Bears team is not the 2008 Broncos

4500 yards and 25 tds dont mean too much if you throw 18 picks and are constantly picked off in the redzone.

40% of those picks came when they were trailing by 2+ scores because they were playing with such a pitifully awful defense.

And 28% came when they were leading...And on a number of those two plus score deficiencies, Cutler had already thrown picks earlier in the game.6 of his picks that year came within the first 10 passes... what's the excuse for that? In nearly 33% of the games he threw an INT early on. Over half his INTs that year came within the first 20 attempts, before they were down by much, and even if they were, early enough in the game that there wasn't a need to make risky throws...He threw 2 INTs while ahead by two scores.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

And 28% came when they were leading...

So what? So he threw 5 picks when leading? That's pretty dang normal.Last year Peyton threw 16 picks (2 less than Cutler) in 60 less attempts than Cutler had in 2008. 60% of those picks of Peyton's came when they were leading.You're just throwing numbers out there without having any idea what the context for them is. You could use this argument to argue that almost any QB in the league sucks if you didn't have any other context.

And on a number of those two plus score deficiencies, Cutler had already thrown picks earlier in the game.6 of his picks that year came within the first 10 passes... what's the excuse for that? In nearly 33% of the games he threw an INT early on. Over half his INTs that year came within the first 20 attempts, before they were down by much, and even if they were, early enough in the game that there wasn't a need to make risky throws...

Again, you need to understand some context here. Apparently you think that most quarterbacks are infallable. Most quarterbacks throw interceptions early in games fairly often. It happens. That doesn't mean that they get down by 2-5 scores because they have a horrible defense, so you never get a chance to see the late interceptions and argue that they were because of the early ones.Like I mentioned in the other thread. Peyton threw interceptions early on (and in tie games) in each of the first 3 games last year. I'm guessing I don't need to go all the way through the rest of the year to find that he threw INTs early in at least 33% of them, and likely more.In fact, while we're at it, Cutler threw an INT once every 35 attempts in 2008. Peyton has done the same in thing in 2 out of the last 3 years. And remember, that was with Cutler throwing picks late thanks to the defense on top of that.

here are the opponent point totals in his wins:14, 38, 32, 13, 30, 20, 17. 17I'll give him credit for overcoming a horrible defense on 3 of those --- .200 of 16 is about 3.the rest of the year his horrible defense had to overcome a horrible pick machine.

And here are the opponent point totals in Kyle Orton's wins the next year:7, 6, 3, 10, 17, 23, 6, 13Only twice in 2009 did Orton win a game where the defense allowed more points than the LOWEST point total the 2008 defense allowed. The LOWEST.Again, anyone trying to claim that Denver making it to 8-8 in 2008 was anything short of remarkable with that defense is just trying to find a way to bend something to suit their point. No rational person could possibly argue it.I'm not here to argue that Cutler is some QB god. He clearly has either regressed from that guy in 2008 or he benefited from the guys around him. Rip apart his 2009 and 2010 all you want, be my guest. But counting 2008 as anything short of spectacular is just irresponsible, at best. That 2008 Broncos team with a mediocre or bad QB is 2-14.

 

[switz]

here are the opponent point totals in his wins:14, 38, 32, 13, 30, 20, 17, 17I'll give him credit for overcoming a horrible defense on 3 of those --- .200 of 16 is about 3.the rest of the year his horrible defense had to overcome a horrible pick machine.

And here are the opponent point totals in Kyle Orton's wins the next year:7, 6, 3, 10, 17, 23, 6, 13Only twice in 2009 did Orton win a game where the defense allowed more points than the LOWEST point total the 2008 defense allowed. The LOWEST.

Not sure what your point is, Orton did no better than Cutler? I would agree, last year, first year in a totally new system, Orton did no better than Cutler. So???And why do you look at wins only?Cutler's Denver team averaged 23 points per game in '08, Orton's Denver team in '08 averaged 20 points per game. A field goal difference is all. In not a SINGLE loss in '08 would a FG have made a win.Cutler's average points in losses = 15. Guess what, that is the EXACT SAME Average points Orton put up in losses in '09.Blaming the losses on crappy defense in '08 is ridiculous and needs to stop. Cutler was not putting up enough points to win in those games.

 

[az_prof]

SSOG has posted numerical comparisons that at least include factual supports for his arguments. Most of the rest of this thread is purely personal opinion, and not even well informed opinion at that...

you mean like discounting ALL of Cutler's INTs as not his fault if the team was trailing, even by just three points? Yeah, that's factual support

No i mean like comparing his first 57 NFL games to other QBs over similar periods of time and finding that his numbers don't seem to be trending towards the doom and gloom that haters would try to have us believe.But if you want to go back and analyze Peyton Manning's interceptions from his first 57 - 60 games go ahead and knock yourself out. I'm sure it will totally change my "delusions" about Cutler demonstrating real NFL talent by statistical comparison.

I don't think many are saying the guy can't improve.They are saying he needs to.Comparing what Manning did is great. Many were on Manning for his play back then too.Though, watch Manning play even back then and you had a feeling he would get better.Im not sure how many really get that feeling about Cutler.Will he improve...will he work as hard as Manning does to get better?I don't know.

I would agree with this. He clearly needs to improve and the question is, will he? Dr. Malo's post above is why some of us question if he will learn--and it has to do with his attitude. He just doesn't demonstrate the drive and the commitment needed, and I would add, the leadership intangible. We'll see. He certainly has physical skill.

 

[geoff8695]

I don't think many are saying the guy can't improve.

They are saying he needs to.

Comparing what Manning did is great. Many were on Manning for his play back then too.

Though, watch Manning play even back then and you had a feeling he would get better.

Im not sure how many really get that feeling about Cutler.

Will he improve...will he work as hard as Manning does to get better?

I don't know.

I would agree with this. He clearly needs to improve and the question is, will he? Dr. Malo's post above is why some of us question if he will learn--and it has to do with his attitude. He just doesn't demonstrate the drive and the commitment needed, and I would add, the leadership intangible. We'll see. He certainly has physical skill.

I don't necessarily completely disagree with you. When Cutler came to Chicago there were question marks about his leadership/attitude/intangibles, and no questions about his physical skills.However, what are you basing your certainty that he hasn't demonstrated drive and commitment?

And what are you basing your certainty that he lacks leadership/intangible?

If you base your criticisms on having watched Bears games, even going back to last season, you are raising some valid points in questioning some of his decision making; but he has certainly impressed with his toughness and desire to compete. Outside of playing in an altered mental state (while concussed), he's shown a remarkable resiliency while under pressure and coming back for more after taking a beating; and even making big plays to keep the Bears in games or flat out win them. He reminds me of Big Ben in this regard, and his willingness (foolishness?) to see a bad play through in an effort to make something out of it - even when the prudent thing would be to get rid of the ball and live to play another down. He's also at times compared to Favre in the way that they both overly rely upon their strong armed throws (bad mechanics and all)and demonstrating a gunslinger mentality. I don't think these traits are necessarily a negative though, if he continues to grow and learn from mistakes; and I'm certain that he's given the Bears a chance to win games they otherwise would have little chance of competing in.

I'm not crowning him the future Favre, or even Roethlisberger, but he's certainly flashed enough in a body of work that encompasses nearly 60 games to back up the statistical argument that he's not a BAD NFL QB as some love to argue. I'm not really interested in continuing the pissing match or throw around ridiculous hyperbole, but if you have some evidence other than you don't like his 'facial expressions' or the way he plays when he has no business being on the field because he's suffering a concussion, then by all means it's worthwhile to the discussion.

The trolls who have nothing better to do than post "he sux" because I say so, are just fishing. I don't consider you to be one of those.

 

[BigA]

O-Line improved. WR still stink

 

[Shawnky]

The Oline is a much bigger problem.

 

[CaptainHook]

how could u have watched that game today and come away thinking "o-line improved"

 

[Adebisi]

I thought only Ben Roethlisberger could play behind a below-average offensive line?

 

[Your Mom]

how could u have watched that game today and come away thinking "o-line improved"

The O- Line stinks but Jay Cutler is the loser a lot of people said he was. That guy is a quitting B****. Done with him.