If You're Vince Young's Agent (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

The media is the only one that thinks this wonderlic means anything. 

Hi culdeas,Couldn't disagree more. This was a major story because the teams put a lot of stock in the wonderlic.

J

JB, that certainly wasn't true of several of the teams. They indicated opinions much to the contrary.

You don't think teams but a lot of stock in the wonderlic?In my opinion, any team that isn't blowing smoke does.

J

 

[Joe Bryant]

To answer Joe's question, I wouldn't address the Wonderlic issue at his pro day. I would make him available to take any tests NFL teams want to give him privately (including the Wonderlic if that's what they want), but I wouldn't have him do it for the public as part of his pro day. I'm not sure that NFL teams would even be interested in additional Wonderlic results.

I can see that MT. Make the offer and that closes the question. Now let's workout.J

 

[the hairy scotsman]

The media is the only one that thinks this wonderlic means anything. 

Hi culdeas,Couldn't disagree more. This was a major story because the teams put a lot of stock in the wonderlic.

J

JB, that certainly wasn't true of several of the teams. They indicated opinions much to the contrary.

You don't think teams but a lot of stock in the wonderlic?In my opinion, any team that isn't blowing smoke does.

J

I think some do. I know, by their own statements, that some don't. I think everyone else is somewhere in between.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The media is the only one that thinks this wonderlic means anything. 

Hi culdeas,Couldn't disagree more. This was a major story because the teams put a lot of stock in the wonderlic.

J

JB, that certainly wasn't true of several of the teams. They indicated opinions much to the contrary.

You don't think teams but a lot of stock in the wonderlic?In my opinion, any team that isn't blowing smoke does.

J

I think some do. I know, by their own statements, that some don't. I think everyone else is somewhere in between.

Hi hs,I think that's the key. I think few of these teams say what they really think. Most of these teams that are smart say what they say in order to improve their position.

J

 

[the hairy scotsman]

The media is the only one that thinks this wonderlic means anything. 

Hi culdeas,Couldn't disagree more. This was a major story because the teams put a lot of stock in the wonderlic.

J

JB, that certainly wasn't true of several of the teams. They indicated opinions much to the contrary.

You don't think teams but a lot of stock in the wonderlic?In my opinion, any team that isn't blowing smoke does.

J

I think some do. I know, by their own statements, that some don't. I think everyone else is somewhere in between.

Hi hs,I think that's the key. I think few of these teams say what they really think. Most of these teams that are smart say what they say in order to improve their position.

J

OK...so are you saying all the teams that say they put a lot of stock in the Wonderlic are just telling the truth...and all the teams that say they don't put much stock in it are just posturing?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I can't imagine that there are many teams that put almost no stock in the Wonderlic. They just use it to varying degrees.

 

[Joe Bryant]

OK...so are you saying all the teams that say they put a lot of stock in the Wonderlic are just telling the truth...and all the teams that say they don't put much stock in it are just posturing?

Hi hs,I'm saying I don't put much stock at all in what these guys say this time of year.

Add in the fact that NONE of these teams are stupid enough to come out and publicly say anything that will become a race issue when they criticize Young for a near record setting wonderlic. Which means I don't put much stock in what these guys actually say on the issue.

J

 

[culdeus]

The media is the only one that thinks this wonderlic means anything.

Hi culdeas,Couldn't disagree more. This was a major story because the teams put a lot of stock in the wonderlic.

J

JB, that certainly wasn't true of several of the teams. They indicated opinions much to the contrary.

You don't think teams but a lot of stock in the wonderlic?In my opinion, any team that isn't blowing smoke does.

J

I think some do. I know, by their own statements, that some don't. I think everyone else is somewhere in between.

Hi hs,I think that's the key. I think few of these teams say what they really think. Most of these teams that are smart say what they say in order to improve their position.

J

OK...so are you saying all the teams that say they put a lot of stock in the Wonderlic are just telling the truth...and all the teams that say they don't put much stock in it are just posturing?

 

[Joe Bryant]

The media is the only one that thinks this wonderlic means anything. 

Hi culdeas,Couldn't disagree more. This was a major story because the teams put a lot of stock in the wonderlic.

J

JB, that certainly wasn't true of several of the teams. They indicated opinions much to the contrary.

You don't think teams but a lot of stock in the wonderlic?In my opinion, any team that isn't blowing smoke does.

J

I think some do. I know, by their own statements, that some don't. I think everyone else is somewhere in between.

Hi hs,I think that's the key. I think few of these teams say what they really think. Most of these teams that are smart say what they say in order to improve their position.

J

OK...so are you saying all the teams that say they put a lot of stock in the Wonderlic are just telling the truth...and all the teams that say they don't put much stock in it are just posturing?

Answer is posted above.J

 

[culdeus]

OK...so are you saying all the teams that say they put a lot of stock in the Wonderlic are just telling the truth...and all the teams that say they don't put much stock in it are just posturing?

Hi hs,I'm saying I don't put much stock at all in what these guys say this time of year.

Add in the fact that NONE of these teams are stupid enough to come out and publicly say anything that will become a race issue when they criticize Young for a near record setting wonderlic. Which means I don't put much stock in what these guys actually say on the issue.

J

Not following. What record are we talking about here? Or am I missing something. His score could not be a record low or even close to it. Not buying that.This is a dead issue. Nobody has come out and showed that wonderlic is strongly correlated to QB performance. Ever. You are hitting the nail on the head when you say this is a race card being played. The old habits die hard with regards to QBs. To me it looks like this is just being played out in the media so teams have an excuse, not a reason, to avoid a black QB for the future.

 

[Rozelle]

How much stock is put into depends on position...I would think looking at Young as a RB or WR, wonderlic would not mean as much.

 

[Joe Bryant]

OK...so are you saying all the teams that say they put a lot of stock in the Wonderlic are just telling the truth...and all the teams that say they don't put much stock in it are just posturing?

Hi hs,I'm saying I don't put much stock at all in what these guys say this time of year.

Add in the fact that NONE of these teams are stupid enough to come out and publicly say anything that will become a race issue when they criticize Young for a near record setting wonderlic. Which means I don't put much stock in what these guys actually say on the issue.

J

Not following. What record are we talking about here? Or am I missing something. His score could not be a record low or even close to it. Not buying that.This is a dead issue. Nobody has come out and showed that wonderlic is strongly correlated to QB performance. Ever. You are hitting the nail on the head when you say this is a race card being played. The old habits die hard with regards to QBs. To me it looks like this is just being played out in the media so teams have an excuse, not a reason, to avoid a black QB for the future.

His 6 and then 15 were near record setting for a high profile QB. J

 

[Rozelle]

OK...so are you saying all the teams that say they put a lot of stock in the Wonderlic are just telling the truth...and all the teams that say they don't put much stock in it are just posturing?

Hi hs,I'm saying I don't put much stock at all in what these guys say this time of year.

Add in the fact that NONE of these teams are stupid enough to come out and publicly say anything that will become a race issue when they criticize Young for a near record setting wonderlic. Which means I don't put much stock in what these guys actually say on the issue.

J

Not following. What record are we talking about here? Or am I missing something. His score could not be a record low or even close to it. Not buying that.This is a dead issue. Nobody has come out and showed that wonderlic is strongly correlated to QB performance. Ever. You are hitting the nail on the head when you say this is a race card being played. The old habits die hard with regards to QBs. To me it looks like this is just being played out in the media so teams have an excuse, not a reason, to avoid a black QB for the future.

His 6 and then 15 were near record setting for a high profile QB. J

Come on Joe... he had a 7

 

[Bevo]

Just read that Vince completed 55 of 57 passes, all from under center. He is also set to have at least 2 private workouts tomorrow, Titans and Texans.

Sorry, no link, this is from a premium board and I can't link to it.

Edit for a correction, he threw 55 of 57 "good" balls, there were a couple drops among the 55 by the receivers.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This is a dead issue. Nobody has come out and showed that wonderlic is strongly correlated to QB performance. Ever. You are hitting the nail on the head when you say this is a race card being played. The old habits die hard with regards to QBs. To me it looks like this is just being played out in the media so teams have an excuse, not a reason, to avoid a black QB for the future.



Stereotypical...It would be very interesting to see if this wonderlic hype would be played as it is if it were a white QB who lead UT to the National Championship and then scored low on the lic test. The closest comparison I can come up with in recent memory is when 1st round pick QB JP Losman bombed badly on it (not sure but I believe he scored a 14?) and then took the test over and scored well (31?) ...amongst rumors he or his agent obtained a copy for him. And the Losman fiasco didn't come anywhere near this media crunch being put on Vince Young...in fact, I would wager a fair amount of those reading this forum are unaware of Losman's lic scandal. Why wasn't the media as interested in a questionable retake and very large difference in score by Losman?!?!?!

Hi its,

I'd say it's because a 14 to a 31 is a lot different from a 6 to a 15. And the fact that Losman carried a tiny fraction of the hype that Young does.

J

 

[Carnifex]

The differance between 7 and 15 could easily be explained by:

"Vince, you guessed on the ones you didn't know right?"

 

[BigJim®]

The differance between 7 and 15 could easily be explained by:

"Vince, you guessed on the ones you didn't know right?"

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Here we go again with the "6" score as a known fact.

Joe...I'm surprised.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

From Gil Brandt's report at the link .

The main event started at 3:15 p.m. -- Young throwing. He started off 7 out of 7. In all, he had a 40-minute workout in which he threw from under center as opposed to out of the shotgun. It gave team personnel an opportunity to evaluate him that way since he worked out of the shotgun predominantly at Texas. He impressed everyone with his arm strength, quick delivery and accuracy. Young made great strides today.

That report, combined with the report of 55 of 57 good balls sounds very good for Vince.As far as his 40 time goes, I've read that he'd been working hard to get it under 4.7 in his Houston workouts, so the reported 4.49 to 4.57 times have to be at least mildly pleasing to him.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

dallas morning news

Just left Texas' pro day and Vince Young looked great. He completed passes using three-step, four-step and seven-step drops. He threw deep balls, 50 and 60 yards and rolled out, scrambled and hit receivers on post patters and outs.

Young completed his first 10 passes.

"I just want to continue being Vince Young," he said. "You hear so much that Vince is not working out and not doing this and that. This shows I'm working."

Young's agent, Major Adams, believes Young's stock is rising. He's supposed to meet the Titans on Thursday and has two more meetings scheduled, Baltimore and the New York Jets, in the next few days.

fw star telegram

“I love this guy. He’s got a big arm,” Kubiak said. “He was very impressive.”

 

[Joe Bryant]

You're right about that J...Losman jumped up an unbelievable 17 points in his retake, while Young made a reasonable improvement of 9 points. Don't you find the 17 point jump by a 1st round QB (Losman) an equally compelling story as Young's initial low score???

Hi its,Again, it's compelling because of who he is. If Matt Leinart had posted a 15, you'd hear the same thing. Losman was a non factor at the combine. He'd have had to shot a guy in Indy that weekend to draw the same kind of attention.

J

 

[cstu]

You're right about that J...Losman jumped up an unbelievable 17 points in his retake, while Young made a reasonable improvement of 9 points. Don't you find the 17 point jump by a 1st round QB (Losman) an equally compelling story as Young's initial low score???

Hi its,Again, it's compelling because of who he is. If Matt Leinart had posted a 15, you'd hear the same thing. Losman was a non factor at the combine. He'd have had to shot a guy in Indy that weekend to draw the same kind of attention.

J

I would have to disagree with that thought as I can remember Losman being talked up as the heir apparent to Brett Favre in Green Bay before the 2004 NFL draft. And you can't get much more attention drawn to yourself as being mentioned in the same sentence as Brett Favre. Losman drew plenty of attention leading up to the 2004 draft and his 1st round draft status helps to back this. He may not have drawn the initial attention as Manning, Roethlisberger and Rivers did early on that year...but Losman was a mover among many scouts that year, much like Jay Cutler was a mover is in this year's draft. Even one of your own staff writers from 2004 made the Favre/Losman comparison in his analysis...it was the trendy thing to do that year.http://www.footballguys.com/04dynasty_jplosman.htm

http://www.packersnews.com/topics/2004draf..._15751564.shtml

Yes, Losman had plenty enough attention to receive the same media treatment Vince Young has this year over the wonderlic fiasco...yet he didn't. Draw your own conclusions...I have.

Losman didn't singlehandedly win a National Championship against what was touted as the best college team ever. He flew up the draft charts but coming from being a 2nd round pick is a lot different than starting out considered a possible #1 overall pick. There was a lot more scrutiny on Vince because of his high profile, not his race. The other difference was that Losman was known to be a guy with a bad attitude and Vince was supposed to be the golden child with all the leadership attributes. Vince needed to be squeaky clean during the offseason but he has made mistake after mistake and it is costing him.

 

[ImTheScientist]

You're right about that J...Losman jumped up an unbelievable 17 points in his retake, while Young made a reasonable improvement of 9 points. Don't you find the 17 point jump by a 1st round QB (Losman) an equally compelling story as Young's initial low score???

Hi its,Again, it's compelling because of who he is. If Matt Leinart had posted a 15, you'd hear the same thing. Losman was a non factor at the combine. He'd have had to shot a guy in Indy that weekend to draw the same kind of attention.

J

I would have to disagree with that thought as I can remember Losman being talked up as the heir apparent to Brett Favre in Green Bay before the 2004 NFL draft. And you can't get much more attention drawn to yourself as being mentioned in the same sentence as Brett Favre. Losman drew plenty of attention leading up to the 2004 draft and his 1st round draft status helps to back this. He may not have drawn the initial attention as Manning, Roethlisberger and Rivers did early on that year...but Losman was a mover among many scouts that year, much like Jay Cutler was a mover is in this year's draft. Even one of your own staff writers from 2004 made the Favre/Losman comparison in his analysis...it was the trendy thing to do that year.http://www.footballguys.com/04dynasty_jplosman.htm

http://www.packersnews.com/topics/2004draf..._15751564.shtml

Yes, Losman had plenty enough attention to receive the same media treatment Vince Young has this year over the wonderlic fiasco...yet he didn't. Draw your own conclusions...I have.

Losman didn't singlehandedly win a National Championship against what was touted as the best college team ever. He flew up the draft charts but coming from being a 2nd round pick is a lot different than starting out considered a possible #1 overall pick. There was a lot more scrutiny on Vince because of his high profile, not his race. The other difference was that Losman was known to be a guy with a bad attitude and Vince was supposed to be the golden child with all the leadership attributes. Vince needed to be squeaky clean during the offseason but he has made mistake after mistake and it is costing him.

The media, internet sites and others are constantly driving home an old stereotype of the black QB being too stupid to play the position with the constant unrelenting attention surrounding Vince Young's first score. Yet two years ago Losman got a pass from these very same groups...and he may have possibly done something worse than just having a low score. Losman may have cheated on the test?

Losman was the guy being talked about to take over for the true "golden child" Brett Favre, as basically everyone was predicting Green Bay to take him in the 1st. Losman was being mentioned right along with Eli, Roethlisberger and Rivers before the 2004 draft, just as Vince, Leinart and Cutler are are being talked about as the 1st round QB's in this draft. 1st round QB's get the press, everyone knows this.

Losman and his lic retake and score was every bit of the story that Young's was...yet he got a pass. IT IS WHAT IT IS...

I love how people throw race into an argument to somehow try to further their poor argument......IT IS WHAT IT IS...

 

[cstu]

You're right about that J...Losman jumped up an unbelievable 17 points in his retake, while Young made a reasonable improvement of 9 points. Don't you find the 17 point jump by a 1st round QB (Losman) an equally compelling story as Young's initial low score???

Hi its,Again, it's compelling because of who he is. If Matt Leinart had posted a 15, you'd hear the same thing. Losman was a non factor at the combine. He'd have had to shot a guy in Indy that weekend to draw the same kind of attention.

J

I would have to disagree with that thought as I can remember Losman being talked up as the heir apparent to Brett Favre in Green Bay before the 2004 NFL draft. And you can't get much more attention drawn to yourself as being mentioned in the same sentence as Brett Favre. Losman drew plenty of attention leading up to the 2004 draft and his 1st round draft status helps to back this. He may not have drawn the initial attention as Manning, Roethlisberger and Rivers did early on that year...but Losman was a mover among many scouts that year, much like Jay Cutler was a mover is in this year's draft. Even one of your own staff writers from 2004 made the Favre/Losman comparison in his analysis...it was the trendy thing to do that year.http://www.footballguys.com/04dynasty_jplosman.htm

http://www.packersnews.com/topics/2004draf..._15751564.shtml

Yes, Losman had plenty enough attention to receive the same media treatment Vince Young has this year over the wonderlic fiasco...yet he didn't. Draw your own conclusions...I have.

Losman didn't singlehandedly win a National Championship against what was touted as the best college team ever. He flew up the draft charts but coming from being a 2nd round pick is a lot different than starting out considered a possible #1 overall pick. There was a lot more scrutiny on Vince because of his high profile, not his race. The other difference was that Losman was known to be a guy with a bad attitude and Vince was supposed to be the golden child with all the leadership attributes. Vince needed to be squeaky clean during the offseason but he has made mistake after mistake and it is costing him.

The media, internet sites and others are constantly driving home an old stereotype of the black QB being too stupid to play the position with the constant unrelenting attention surrounding Vince Young's first score. Yet two years ago Losman got a pass from these very same groups...and he may have possibly done something worse than just having a low score. Losman may have cheated on the test?

Losman was the guy being talked about to take over for the true "golden child" Brett Favre, as basically everyone was predicting Green Bay to take him in the 1st. Losman was being mentioned right along with Eli, Roethlisberger and Rivers before the 2004 draft, just as Vince, Leinart and Cutler are are being talked about as the 1st round QB's in this draft. 1st round QB's get the press, everyone knows this.

Losman and his lic retake and score was every bit of the story that Young's was...yet he got a pass. IT IS WHAT IT IS...

You're turning this into a race issue and it's not. Despite Losman moving up, he was still expected to be a late 1st/early 2nd pick. The Bills traded up to get him since they were willing to overlook his tendency to hold onto the ball too long and his attitude because of his big arm and athletic ability. Losman still isn't a bust since it was expected that he would need 2-3 years of experience to develop into an NFL QB. Regarding his Wonderlic, he got a 14 the first time and whether he cheated or not he got a 31 the second time. Nobody really cared about the 14 since late 1st round picks are a risk anyway. Had Vince be a late first round pick going in, the media wouldn't have a made a big deal about it either.

 

[shake zula]

I ignore it like a plain girl in a miami night club...