Free speech is about what I can't say and not about what I have to say.What about Peterson do you find appealing Chet?
Join the PSF. He's now a poltical figure in Canada and America.
What speech is the government preventing you from exercising?Free speech is about what I can't say and not about what I have to say.
I think this is where I come out too.Certainly an interesting voice, though I’m still not totally what I think. He makes a lot of legit points, but skews a little too much toward traditionalism for me.
Are identity politics really new? That’s what confuses me. When has politics not been deeply connected to one’s identity?I like him. He’s a great counterbalance to the prevailing identity politics movement.
Hes sometime a bit too sure of himself but in general I get his point.
That’s true of the majority of all people of all beliefs. Most people just think how they think and struggle to support it. They just fall back on the same canned arguments and buzzwords. For the right it’s SJW, snowflake, PC, etc. It’s lazy and annoying from all sides, but using it as a means to tout “your side” over another side is live with blinders.An awesome place for this, from Freddy DeBoer. leftist, on the settled nature of right and wrong:
This is the form of argument, and of comedy, that takes as its presumption that all good and decent people are already agreed on the issue in question. In fact, We Are All Already Decided presumes that the offense is not just in thinking the wrong thing you think but in not realizing that We Are All Already Decided that the thing you think is deeply ridiculous. And the embedded argument, such as it is, is not on the merits of whatever issue people are disagreeing about, but on the assumed social costs of being wrong about an issue on which We Are All Already Decided. Which is great, provided everybody you need to convince cares about being part of your little koffee klatsch. If not, well….
All of this, frankly, is politically ruinous. I meet and interact with a lot of young lefties who are just stunning rhetorically weak; they feel all of their politics very intensely but can’t articulate them to anyone who doesn’t share the same vocabulary, the same set of cultural and social signifiers that are used to demonstrate you’re one of the “right sort of people.” These kids are often great, they’re smart and passionate, I agree with them on most things, but they have no ability at all to express themselves to those who are not already in their tribe. They say terms like “privilege” or “mansplain” or “tone policing” and expect the conversation to somehow just stop, that if you say the magic words, you have won that round and the world is supposed to roll over to what you want.
Is he against transgenders?His gender stance a lone is enough for me to dislike him. As I’ve posted here before, my young niece is transgendered and man is it tough on her and the family. Just yesterday, her mom was at an exercise group that she’s been in for awhile. The instructor is also a flight attendant and was telling the group that her employer is now allowing men to wear the women’s uniform and vice-versa. She then said “so now there will be trannies on the planes. It’s ebough to make me want to puke.” Someone else chimed in that these people should fired and institutionalized. My sister in law feels totally bestrayed and is furious she has spent all that time and money there.
So the Jordan Peterson’s of the world who seem to cloak hate and bigotry in science, liberty and some fake idea of traditionalisn can piss off.
No. But I believe he was opposed to legislation guaranteeing them protected rights in Canada.Is he against transgenders?
Maybe you should find out for sure if he was, in fact, opposed to legislation, and why, before you decide to dislike him.No. But I believe he was opposed to legislation guaranteeing them protected rights in Canada.
If you have a link to show he supports it, send it my way.Maybe you should find out for sure if he was, in fact, opposed to legislation, and why, before you decide to dislike him.
Is Peterson practicing identity politics himself?I like him. He’s a great counterbalance to the prevailing identity politics movement.
Hes sometime a bit too sure of himself but in general I get his point.
This is my take as well. I haven’t watched all of his videos, but his specious takes on the Canadian legislation that spurred his fame is enough for me to discount his takes. He’s brilliantly monetized the aggrieved, white-males-are-the-real-victims crowd, so I give him credit for that.Guy is the very definition of a sophist.
It’s awfully rude to have a student or coworker ask to be referred to by X and not only refuse but publicly complain about it as some incredible injustice. And then turn around and claim you are a Christian who supports loving thy neighbor. At least that is how I see it.
Just because he didn't support this particular bill, which he believed had free speech implications, doesn't mean that the above is true.he just doesn’t support legal protection for them
That’s true. But the fact that he ignored all the lawyers who explained that his take on the free speech aspect was unfounded and misguided, suggests he’s either ignorant on the issue or perhaps has an issue with equal rights for transgenders, IMO.Just because he didn't support this particular bill, which he believed had free speech implications, doesn't mean that the above is true.
I can't blame a guy for not trusting lawyers.That’s true. But the fact that he ignored all the lawyers who explained that his take on the free speech aspect was unfounded and misguided, suggests he’s either ignorant on the issue or perhaps has an issue with equal rights for transgenders, IMO.
And you think Peterson supports rudeness? My understanding is that he very much doesn’t.It’s awfully rude to have a student or coworker ask to be referred to by X and not only refuse but publicly complain about it as some incredible injustice. And then turn around and claim you are a Christian who supports loving thy neighbor. At least that is how I see it.
I agree that it's a real #### move. However, I don't think people should be sanctioned for being rude ########.It’s awfully rude to have a student or coworker ask to be referred to by X and not only refuse but publicly complain about it as some incredible injustice. And then turn around and claim you are a Christian who supports loving thy neighbor. At least that is how I see it.
But his take turned out to be correct, didn’t it? The law was actually used the way he said it would be, contra the lawyers who assured him that it wouldn’t be.That’s true. But the fact that he ignored all the lawyers who explained that his take on the free speech aspect was unfounded and misguided, suggests he’s either ignorant on the issue or perhaps has an issue with equal rights for transgenders, IMO.
Aspects of it seem new, like the cultural appropriation nonsense.Are identity politics really new? That’s what confuses me. When has politics not been deeply connected to one’s identity?
Very new. It's gotten crazy.Aspects of it seem new, like the cultural appropriation nonsense.
I’m not aware of someone being criminally charged for misusing pronouns, which was Peterson’s central complaint. Perhaps I missed it?But his take turned out to be correct, didn’t it? The law was actually used the way he said it would be, contra the lawyers who assured him that it wouldn’t.
At least that’s what I saw someone post on Twitter this one time, so it’s probably true.
I’m not sure about criminal charges and I don’t feel like Googling, but at the very least, see the whole Lindsay Shepherd fiasco at Wilfred Laurier. I believe those laws were cited by the university, and I believe that’s not the only case like it.I’m not aware of someone being criminally charged for misusing pronouns, which was Peterson’s central complaint. Perhaps I missed it?
Maybe not new but far more emphasized. I can’t really understand anyone who doesn’t see that. Your identity is often taken into consideration before the validity of your argument.Are identity politics really new? That’s what confuses me. When has politics not been deeply connected to one’s identity?
The classical liberal tradition that includes both American liberals and conservatives argued that people should actively try to transcend their own lot in life. "Identity politics" has existed for a long time -- think white racists in the south -- but it's generally been understood to be bad. It's only a fairly recent development that people have started to embrace identity politics as a good thing. Seeing as how Trump is the embodiment of white identity politics, I'd say this has been a bad turn of events.Are identity politics really new? That’s what confuses me. When has politics not been deeply connected to one’s identity?
Speaking as a cisgender white male, I agree with you.Maybe not new but far more emphasized. I can’t really understand anyone who doesn’t see that. Your identity is often taken into consideration before the validity of your argument.
In what way? Can you give me some examples. I’m not trying to be obtuse, just trying to understand.Maybe not new but far more emphasized. I can’t really understand anyone who doesn’t see that. Your identity is often taken into consideration before the validity of your argument.
Wilfred Laurier apologized and admitted they erred in reprimanding Lindsay Shepherd. I don’t think that Peterson’s point was that a Univeristy may misinterpret the legislation and mistakenly reprimand a TA - I haven’t listened in awhile but I am pretty sure Peterson’s hypotheticals w/re to C-16 we’re far more alarming and referenced being criminally prosecuted for simply using the wrong pronouns. Which I think we can all agree is a gross mischaracterization of the legislation that just so happens to feed into the aggrieved anti-PC narrative he’s famous for.I’m not sure about criminal charges and I don’t feel like Googling, but at the very least, see the whole Lindsay Shepherd fiasco at Wilfred Laurier. I believe those laws were cited by the university, and I believe that’s not the only case like it.
We are talking Canada here; try to keep up.What speech is the government preventing you from exercising?
I think that "identity politics movement" today encompasses 2 things:Are identity politics really new? That’s what confuses me. When has politics not been deeply connected to one’s identity?
I think that I agree with these. I usually find him compelling for a certain period of time, but at the end, still am not 100% sure what I just heard and usually get annoyed when I listen to him for too long.Guy is the very definition of a sophist.It seems like it’s not always easy to understand what he really believes..
I thought he just refused to use the dozens of pronouns that his school was making them use for all the different sexual orientations and transgendered people, not against them having rights.No. But I believe he was opposed to legislation guaranteeing them protected rights in Canada.