I'm Beginning To Think I Did This All Wrong With The Whole Not Having Children Thing (1 Viewer)

[Leroy Hoard]

"I asked my mom if I was adopted. She said, ‘Not yet, but we placed an ad."

 

[Zow]

Having kids was great. Having them move out of the house was even better.

Seriously, this was the first summer that neither kid came home from college. (We have two -- our oldest graduated a couple of years ago and is working now, and the youngest will be a senior this year, but she stayed at school ostensibly to work over the summer but really to be around her boyfriend). My wife and I had a good marriage anyway, but now it's as if we're dating again. It's kind or weird to think about this, but it's been 25 years since we had the house to ourselves.

Now this is what I love to hear. Kids have made my wife and I more like business partners/coworkers with our primary focus being on them.

ETA: We do make sure we do a date (she's taken up golf which has been really nice) or a weekend getaway every couple of months. If we don't do this honestly the romance in the relationship would be nearly gone and we'd both be very worried about having to rekindle it when they're grown.

 

[Manster]

Good folks need to have more kids so we don't slowly head towards the movie idiocracy

 

[Zow]

"I asked my mom if I was adopted. She said, ‘Not yet, but we placed an ad."

"... we did not include a photo."

 

[Zow]

That way someone will be there when I get sick because. . .biology.

That's how we do. That's how I should have done.

Any thoughts?

Since you asked, my honest initial thought based on the sentiment in your OP is that it is a very good thing you didn't have kids. For their hypothetical sakes.

 

[beer 30]

You too. I can see your heartlight from here, beer 30.

Most folks that know me around here know that I have no heart...or light for that matter.

In all seriousness, I was born into an old family and have watched them all die off except for one brother. Literally all my immediate family and aunts/uncles are gone. I've seen some really cool stuff of kids taking care of parents, been through it myself. Kids come around when they're in their 20's and start to see mom & dad's mortality light blinking a little faster. Before that they are mostly ********. After can be a pretty cool experience. Death sucks but we all have it on the horizon and the way the economy is going, I see families heading more toward a Japanese/Chines model where the kids move in with the parents not so much to take care of them but just to survive. My youngest (22) has already given up the ghost on ever owning a home and I can't make an argument to the contrary right now.

 

[Northern Voice]

My father in law absolutely expects his daughter/my wife to take care of him and his wife in every regard for what it's worth. And we have done a ton from buying a house in our neighborhood that we rent to them at a significant $$$ loss every month to providing meals on a daily basis and so much more.

They now expect to move into our house and receive basically around the clock care and we are having a tough time getting them to understand that we are both working people, we are both not nurses or doctors and they both require more care than we can realistically provide.

My father in law is an adamant "I will never go into a nursing home" guy and a "you need to look after your mom and never put her in a home guy". But the palliative doctor has said he is no longer capable at living at his house on his own or with his wife (who is showing early signs of dementia).

The implication from them that we need to take care of them is clear and weighs so much on Mrs. NV. He ended up going to palliative care at the hospital and the mother in law did move in with us on a temporary basis - but now he is well enough that someone else needs his bed - but ill enough he can't go home - so he is going to a nursing home and for the time being - and asking every day when he can go home (to our home, not his). He can't, he won't be able too but he will continue to pressure and guilt everyone around him.

 

[Anarchy99]

wow - great post & sharing - good on ya for stepping up and being a rock for those children.

The kids all turned out great in spite of how things went. Eight college degrees between them, all with established careers, all self-sufficient, and none living in my basement. Not gonna lie, it was a challenge and a struggle at times.

I've had people ask me what the secret was, and I tell them it was all just luck. Sadly, we know families with kids that aren't here anymore, some that will never recover from injuries and accidents, others with substance abuse issues, or incarcerated from major felonies. Many times, people will laugh at me when I say the most important thing about being a parent is getting them to adulthood alive and in one piece. You can try to install values and virtues in them and teach them right from wrong, but it's on the kids to want to make something of themselves. Put another way, the parents of the kids I just listed did the same things that we did, loved their kids just as much, "did everything right," and the kids made some really bad, life altering decisions. Bottom line, sad things happen all the time, and I don't often believe it was from poor parenting.

 

[Anarchy99]

"I asked my mom if I was adopted. She said, ‘Not yet, but we placed an ad."

This reminds me after my grandmother's funeral, I asked my 64-year-old mother what it was like to suddenly be an orphan. That made her laugh and put a smile on her face on an otherwise melancholy and somber day.

 

[otb_lifer]

I’m starting to learn/believe I may have some autism traits that has trouble picking some sarcasm. Weird because I’m pretty sarcastic, myself.

Well, one on hand I want to say something about ruining a good ruse, but it's probably because sarcasm is muddy and there's a lot of truth in jest. Even stuff as tongue-in-cheek as my first post can get lost in the ether given the internet and its tendency to amplify anonymous speech as something to be taken prima facie. There's almost no limit to what one can say, so why wouldn't I, the speaker, really feel this way? And do I actually, in my worst moments, feel that way?

In truth, I have no desire to have children in my current or former state. I have never burdened nor would burden an innocent child like that. I made it this far without having a child, and it wasn't on accident. It was a conscious decision. otb and you had it right. So that said, I also feel like maybe I'm missing out on a lot and I don't know what the future holds. Maybe I want my own brood to hang with as I age. That's the lament, though, and it's brief.

The rest of the **** I'm saying in this thread is uncomfortably true as true is, and is indicative of our current societal condition mixed with our biological natures.

Because what really ****ing has begun to burn me is how younger guys walk around siring all these kids and leaving them to the mother or neglecting and abusing them, all while calling themselves a father and taking all this pride in doing absolutely nothing in the raising of their children. Being their friend. Being afraid to impart life lessons because they're so selfish and fragile they can't anger the kid lest the kid act out. Those children wind up in various states of want and need, economically and emotionally.

And yet the strut of the siring loins never stops. And the kids are still attached to the bad fathers and mothers, because that's how biology works.

And we're too scared as a society to tell the childbearers and male half of the equation to stop having children out of wedlock or into neglect. It's so anathema to our non-judgmental selves that we pillory and ridicule a guy who brings up the proposition that maybe somebody advocating single motherhood isn't the ideal role model for people. We make fun of him, not the people leaving their kids in emotional and spiritual want. We wait for the person making the moral claim to trip up so that we might label him a hypocrite for at least nodding to a standard of behavior.

Look, nobody is asking for the "never darken our door" way in which young lovers were treated once. But spitting out six kids and barely being able to care for them is not something we should be encouraging. The words "baby mama" should have never entered our family lexicon.

There. High horse done. Thread virtually over. It was sort of fun in spots. Dark humor and all.

from the "story of our life" music draft ... this were the one  i chose in relation to my (then) impending fatherhood.

dunno if i ever heard it articulated better ... his absentee ways - letting the kid down ...

- yes it was their way/know it ain't mine/guess they did okay/at least they tried ...

- decided not to have any re-grets/woah that's as good as it gets/decided not to raise some mixed up kid/just like/my mama n' daddy did

 

[dkp993]

In all seriousness, it seems like an odd take from you.

Do you seriously think I want to have eight kids after fifty and see them once every two months or do you think I'm making a broader comment? Which one do you think?

Or is it just id speaking with a little bit of existential lament?

Perhaps it's all of it.

I took you as completely literal and that you wanted to be a serial absentee father solely so there might be someone to take care of you. Seemed in character.

 

[Zow]

My father in law absolutely expects his daughter/my wife to take care of him and his wife in every regard for what it's worth. And we have done a ton from buying a house in our neighborhood that we rent to them at a significant $$$ loss every month to providing meals on a daily basis and so much more.

They now expect to move into our house and receive basically around the clock care and we are having a tough time getting them to understand that we are both working people, we are both not nurses or doctors and they both require more care than we can realistically provide.

My father in law is an adamant "I will never go into a nursing home" guy and a "you need to look after your mom and never put her in a home guy". But the palliative doctor has said he is no longer capable at living at his house on his own or with his wife (who is showing early signs of dementia).

The implication from them that we need to take care of them is clear and weighs so much on Mrs. NV. He ended up going to palliative care at the hospital and the mother in law did move in with us on a temporary basis - but now he is well enough that someone else needs his bed - but ill enough he can't go home - so he is going to a nursing home and for the time being - and asking every day when he can go home (to our home, not his). He can't, he won't be able too but he will continue to pressure and guilt everyone around him.

Whoa. I don't know you and your family is your business... but, whoa.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

As a matter of fact, studies have shown that the more time a father spends with his child past a certain limit, the less well-off emotionally and spiritually that child is likely to be.

To be fair, that study was funded by the nonprofit Deadbeat Dads of America.

 

[massraider]

Good folks need to have more kids so we don't slowly head towards the movie idiocracy

How many generations has this been a problem? 3 or 4? More?

Feels inevitable.

 

[dkp993]

You can pretty much totally ignore your offspring and they'll still feel a sense of fidelity to you. In study after study, case after case, this is so. Neglectful households. Abusive households. The pull towards our biological parents is so strong that it trumps even the loving care of a benevolent stepparent. I don't think a genial guy that visits every two months is going to run off his offspring in any way. Absence can make the heart grow fonder and often does when it comes to fathers. As a matter of fact, studies have shown that the more time a father spends with his child past a certain limit, the less well-off emotionally and spiritually that child is likely to be.

As I have first hand experience with this I feel qualified to speak on it.

My parents had me when they were very young (dad 19, mom 18). They got divorced when I was 9. Dad was absent emotionally my whole life, never hugged him once, never said I love you, etc etc. But for the most part he was present and not abusive (physically at least). After the divorce he was the classic Disneyland Dad. Saw him every other weekend.
I chased that man’s attention my entire youth and early 20’s. Then one random day at 28 I decided not to call him and see how long it took for him to call me (something he never did). I turned 48 a few months back. The phone has never rung. We live 30mins apart.

I’ve long sense processed this am happy and have no desire to ever speak with him again. But as sad as is, Rocks statements above are far closer to truth then not.

 

[Ilov80s]

Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.

No, feel free to speak freely.

Anybody here in family law? Tell me about what the courts and experts have begun to realize and practice.

Oof, STEADY just did.

About 10 years ago my wife’s dad convinced my wife to co-sign on his house.

He’s left everyone he’s married with kids to care for

Now he’s left his latest wife home alone while he attends college across the country, sending out go fund me.

Here's the sad truth:

You can pretty much totally ignore your offspring and they'll still feel a sense of fidelity to you. In study after study, case after case, this is so. Neglectful households. Abusive households. The pull towards our biological parents is so strong that it trumps even the loving care of a benevolent stepparent. I don't think a genial guy that visits every two months is going to run off his offspring in any way. Absence can make the heart grow fonder and often does when it comes to fathers. As a matter of fact, studies have shown that the more time a father spends with his child past a certain limit, the less well-off emotionally and spiritually that child is likely to be.

Sad but true, dealing with that right now with my mentee or whatever she is. Despite her parents being truly awful and only causing her hardships, she still has the mindset she has to be there for them because they are her parents. I don't get it but also I do.


The father part is interesting. I wonder if that's because after a certain point it's helicopter parenting and the father is like this authoritarian figure they can't escape or they become too dependent on them?

 

[rockaction]

I wonder if that's because after a certain point it's helicopter parenting and the father is like this authoritarian figure they can't escape or they become too dependent on them?

My ex-girlfriend, reader of studies and inquisitive mind that she has, said the study didn't control for employment and that the dads likely able to spend that much time with their children were unemployed with the host of things that unemployed men entails.

 

[ChiefD]

I've had people ask me what the secret was, and I tell them it was all just luck.

It wasn't luck. Nice job dad.

 

[Ilov80s]

I wonder if that's because after a certain point it's helicopter parenting and the father is like this authoritarian figure they can't escape or they become too dependent on them?

My ex-girlfriend, reader of studies and inquisitive mind that she has, said the study didn't control for employment and that the dads likely able to spend that much time with their children were unemployed with the host of things that unemployed men entails.

Yeah, that certainly makes sense as well. I guess it would kind of depend on what that cut off of too much time is.

 

[matttyl]

My wife and I chose not have kids and stuck with it. She has no regrets. I have some. But then I also know a bunch of people with kids and they are all wildly jealous of my wife and the other couples we hang out with who are childless. The whole DINK thing is pretty sweet- if we had kids, we would certainly have to worry about money, budget, think about our purchases, etc. But yeah when I am older, who is going to take care of us? Maybe by being childless, you get to "enjoy" life so much more than there will be less end of life care needed.

Buy a long term care policy.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I've had people ask me what the secret was, and I tell them it was all just luck.

It wasn't luck. Nice job dad.

It's not all luck, but my understanding is that most studies suggest that parenting has far less impact on how kids turn out than many other things.

 

[zamboni]

I am, but I bill at $395/hr.

I respect the magnanimous gesture of keeping it under $400.

 

[Anarchy99]

I've had people ask me what the secret was, and I tell them it was all just luck.

It wasn't luck. Nice job dad.

Thanks for the kind words, but trust me, a lot of it was lady luck and a complete roll of the dice. Better stated, our kids hung out with some of those other kids, and they were all being reckless. Those kids hit a tree . . . or a deer . . . or drove into a river . . . or overdosed. Or felt so overwhelmed that they couldn't live another day.

Our kids were fortunate enough that they didn't hit the tree. As the saying goes, "By the grace of God." I take no credit for the police knocking on someone else's door and not ours. We know one family very well where the police came to them in the middle of the night twice in the same year. Absolutely tragic.

I'll take some credit for the other things that happened to get them to act more adult once our kids got past being rebellious teenagers, but all parents will go through a stretch where all you can do is hope and pray.

Enough of me being Debbie Downer. Back to the discussion of having kids to support you when you get old.

 

[massraider]

Buy a long term care policy.

I find it helpful to name it.


Toby the Long Term Care Policy.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

You are not your kids responsibility

I'm sure they will feel otherwise though, when you need them.

About 10 years ago my wife’s dad convinced my wife to co-sign on his house.

He’s left everyone he’s married with kids to care for

Now he’s left his latest wife home alone while he attends college across the country, sending out go fund me.

I’m not sure how this resounds to what I said - maybe I’m missing something?

I was saying your kids will want to take care of you even if you’re not their responsibility. It seems natural.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

You are not your kids responsibility

I'm sure they will feel otherwise though, when you need them.

About 10 years ago my wife’s dad convinced my wife to co-sign on his house.

He’s left everyone he’s married with kids to care for

Now he’s left his latest wife home alone while he attends college across the country, sending out go fund me.

I’m not sure how this resounds to what I said - maybe I’m missing something?

I was saying your kids will want to take care of you even if you’re not their responsibility. It seems natural.

I’m sorry, I read that as that I would feel otherwise.

Forgive me. It’s been rough week. I’m not clear headed.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

You can pretty much totally ignore your offspring and they'll still feel a sense of fidelity to you. In study after study, case after case, this is so. Neglectful households. Abusive households. The pull towards our biological parents is so strong that it trumps even the loving care of a benevolent stepparent. I don't think a genial guy that visits every two months is going to run off his offspring in any way. Absence can make the heart grow fonder and often does when it comes to fathers. As a matter of fact, studies have shown that the more time a father spends with his child past a certain limit, the less well-off emotionally and spiritually that child is likely to be.

As I have first hand experience with this I feel qualified to speak on it.

My parents had me when they were very young (dad 19, mom 18). They got divorced when I was 9. Dad was absent emotionally my whole life, never hugged him once, never said I love you, etc etc. But for the most part he was present and not abusive (physically at least). After the divorce he was the classic Disneyland Dad. Saw him every other weekend.
I chased that man’s attention my entire youth and early 20’s. Then one random day at 28 I decided not to call him and see how long it took for him to call me (something he never did). I turned 48 a few months back. The phone has never rung. We live 30mins apart.

I’ve long sense processed this am happy and have no desire to ever speak with him again. But as sad as is, Rocks statements above are far closer to truth then not.

This is brutal, GB. I know you've made your peace with this, but sheesh.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Personally, I can’t imagine myself or what I’d be doing without my kids. I was a lousy spouse x2 but I think I’m a pretty good dad. Certainly better than what I had. No diss to my parents, they did the best they could with the tools they were given. I don’t get the same joy out of things that most people seem to. I’m high functioning but most definitely on the spectrum so I kind of March to my own drummer. Most times I’d rather be alone other than with my kids. They give me a reason to get out and experience things that I normally never would. I experience joy through them. Without them, I’d probably be a hermit in the woods.

 

[massraider]

I’ve long sense processed this am happy and have no desire to ever speak with him again. But as sad as is, Rocks statements above are far closer to truth then not.

If you don't mind expanding, some questions:

Were you surprised he never called?

Any other family that speak to both of you? If yes, have they ever brought it up to him?

 

[Charlie Steiner]

***I've only skimmed through the thread because I don't want others' thoughts to influence mine, as I just went through this with my mother, my father is probably maybe a decade behind her, so my thoughts are pretty raw and I'm more forthcoming...

I love my kids too much to want to burden them with taking care of me when I get feeble. Watching my mother lose not only her mobility but also her memories was more painful than her actual passing; I really don't want to put my kids through that. I was also lucky enough that I saw her frequently in her last weeks and told her I loved her every time; it gave me a sense of closure with her, and that is something I hope to have with my kids when it's my turn.

My wife's father is in his 90's and lives in an assisted living facility with his second wife, which makes caring for them a moot point, which is good, as none of their children would be able to care for them, and only one grandchild, who has her own health issues and family to tend to, lives near them if/when something happens. I'm not a typical FBG, so I won't have the resources for long-term care and will probably die in my current house, and I'm ok with that.

Finally, if you're worried about long term care, think outside the box; move into a hotel or a cruise ship. The costs are similar, and the latter would be an adventure.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I’m starting to learn/believe I may have some autism traits that has trouble picking some sarcasm. Weird because I’m pretty sarcastic, myself.

Well, one on hand I want to say something about ruining a good ruse, but it's probably because sarcasm is muddy and there's a lot of truth in jest. Even stuff as tongue-in-cheek as my first post can get lost in the ether given the internet and its tendency to amplify anonymous speech as something to be taken prima facie. There's almost no limit to what one can say, so why wouldn't I, the speaker, really feel this way? And do I actually, in my worst moments, feel that way?

In truth, I have no desire to have children in my current or former state. I have never burdened nor would burden an innocent child like that. I made it this far without having a child, and it wasn't on accident. It was a conscious decision. otb and you had it right. So that said, I also feel like maybe I'm missing out on a lot and I don't know what the future holds. Maybe I want my own brood to hang with as I age. That's the lament, though, and it's brief.

The rest of the **** I'm saying in this thread is uncomfortably true as true is, and is indicative of our current societal condition mixed with our biological natures.

Because what really ****ing has begun to burn me is how younger guys walk around siring all these kids and leaving them to the mother or neglecting and abusing them, all while calling themselves a father and taking all this pride in doing absolutely nothing in the raising of their children. Being their friend. Being afraid to impart life lessons because they're so selfish and fragile they can't anger the kid lest the kid act out. Those children wind up in various states of want and need, economically and emotionally.

And yet the strut of the siring loins never stops. And the kids are still attached to the bad fathers and mothers, because that's how biology works.

And we're too scared as a society to tell the childbearers and male half of the equation to stop having children out of wedlock or into neglect. It's so anathema to our non-judgmental selves that we pillory and ridicule a guy who brings up the proposition that maybe somebody advocating single motherhood isn't the ideal role model for people. We make fun of him, not the people leaving their kids in emotional and spiritual want. We wait for the person making the moral claim to trip up so that we might label him a hypocrite for at least nodding to a standard of behavior.

Look, nobody is asking for the "never darken our door" way in which young lovers were treated once. But spitting out six kids and barely being able to care for them is not something we should be encouraging. The words "baby mama" should have never entered our family lexicon.

There. High horse done. Thread virtually over. It was sort of fun in spots. Dark humor and all.

lol - that was my guess from the OP as well. My brother in law whines about absentee fathers and mothers with 6 kids all the time. I guess it has something to do with the taxes he pays. He's less careful in his word choice and the N word rolls easily off his tongue when he makes this same rant.

 

[rockaction]

My brother in law whines about absentee fathers and mothers with 6 kids all the time. I guess it has something to do with the taxes he pays. He's less careful in his word choice and the N word rolls easily off his tongue when he makes this same rant.

If you knew what a problem absentee fathers in the white underclass and black community at large was, you wouldn't be so quick to call it whining. It's a complete disintegration of the family, has been going on since the mid-'60s, and has all sorts of ramifications for our society, none of which are good.

It has nothing to do with the taxes I pay, and around where I live it's mostly all tattooed white people and their clinging, revolting offspring, so you won't get any racial epithets out of me regarding children out of wedlock. It's a constant theme in the white underclass, too.

 

[rockaction]

To be fair, that study was funded by the nonprofit Deadbeat Dads of America.

This went unloved and shouldn't.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

My brother in law whines about absentee fathers and mothers with 6 kids all the time. I guess it has something to do with the taxes he pays. He's less careful in his word choice and the N word rolls easily off his tongue when he makes this same rant.

If you knew what a problem absentee fathers in the white underclass and black community at large was, you wouldn't be so quick to call it whining. It's a complete disintegration of the family, has been going on since the mid-'60s, and has all sorts of ramifications for our society, none of which are good.

It has nothing to do with the taxes I pay, and around where I live it's mostly all tattooed white people and their clinging, revolting offspring, so you won't get any racial epithets out of me regarding children out of wedlock. It's a constant theme in the white underclass, too.

I don't expect you'll get any argument on that here or anywhere else. Its like complaining about tipping and the plague of retail theft - a one-way upvote party. No one's going to defend the 6 child baby mama model of family planning. You get points for the creative OP, but its one of those things that's easy to complain about, much more difficult to propose meaningful solutions.

 

[The Z Machine]

studies have shown that the more time a father spends with his child past a certain limit, the less well-off emotionally and spiritually that child is likely to be.

Wait, wut?

 

[SoBeDad]

Finally, if you're worried about long term care, think outside the box; move into a hotel or a cruise ship. The costs are similar, and the latter would be an adventure.

My kids moved 3000 miles away to California 3 years ago. They're not the type to take care of an aging dad anyway. If you want someone to take care of you, I sugggest LatinCupid. Rock would be surprised about how successful he'd be. A wife is more likely to take care of you than kids.

My kids were unplanned, but it has been a mostly great experience with some angst mixed in. Wives and kids are a lottery. My thought process was if I stay in Miami, my kids would always want to occasionally visit. Now, it's more of me visiting them cause California has so many great places to visit.

 

[WDIK2]

My biggest fear is being dependent on anyone to take care of me. I am a "never going to a nursing home guy", but that's because I'm also a "wander into the forest before that's necessary" guy.

My daughter doesn't like to hear that, but I've told her that's what I want.

Eventually I may semi-retire and go work for my daughter, because she lives near much nicer forests.

 

[Phil Elliott]

For those regretting having kids, go ahead and do a DNA test like 23ANDME. You might be surprised, especially if you did some partying and one night stands.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

About 10 years ago my wife’s dad convinced my wife to co-sign on his house.

Oof. Sorry about that.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

No one's going to defend the 6 child baby mama model of family planning.

Nick Cannon. Ugh.

 

[dkp993]

I’ve long sense processed this am happy and have no desire to ever speak with him again. But as sad as is, Rocks statements above are far closer to truth then not.

If you don't mind expanding, some questions:

Were you surprised he never called?

Any other family that speak to both of you? If yes, have they ever brought it up to him?

Don’t mind at all. I opened it up.

Surprised? Not completely but kind of. I would have bet it would have been a long time but not never. As a father myself now I can’t fathom his actions (or lack thereof).

Family- I have a half brother that is 17yrs younger. We weren’t super close due to the age gap. We talked a handful of times after in some attempt to stay in touch but it was very awkward. I refused to really talk to him about my issues with our father as he had a very different relationship with him and I‘m not going to be the Dad bashing guy. The awkwardness along with him growing up and getting busy with his life basically ended any communication. A few others on that side have had random communication but the same issues prevail there too.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

For those regretting having kids, go ahead and do a DNA test like 23ANDME. You might be surprised, especially if you did some partying and one night stands.

That would explain that missing nine months.

 

[Zow]

I wonder if that's because after a certain point it's helicopter parenting and the father is like this authoritarian figure they can't escape or they become too dependent on them?

My ex-girlfriend, reader of studies and inquisitive mind that she has, said the study didn't control for employment and that the dads likely able to spend that much time with their children were unemployed with the host of things that unemployed men entails.

Please post said study whereby kids are better off with a less involved father later in their years.

 

[Gr00vus]

First 35 or so years of my life I really couldn't sustain relationships with women. Longest stretch was maybe 3 or 4 months. Eventually I recognized I was disfunctional in that way, that I was feeling unfulfilled because I was so unwilling to risk I wouldn't allow any kind of intimacy. So I went to therapy for a while, and became able to have more in depth relationships. Up until then I had no desire to be married or have children.

Through the next few years I got better at building relationships, eventually met my wife, understood that life was better with her in it than I could imagine it being without her in it. Marriage made sense. And with marriage, having kids with her made sense too. So we did, when I was 40. We're lucky to have him. I wish we could have had a couple more, but both our reproductive systems were towards end of life. To reiterate we're lucky to have him. I now can't imagine life without them.

Having children is, in some ways, the most selfish thing you can do. There's an underlying assumption that your progeny deserve to be on this earth, consume its resources, etc., while carrying on your DNA. It's also a big sacrifice. I'm biased, but I feel certain my son deserves to be here, and all sacrifices for him have been and will continue to be worth it.

Parenthood isn't something you can experience by proxy, or by reading about it, or watching shows or movies. It can only be lived.

There's thus a big opportunity cost in not being a parent. I'm glad I became one. I can't tell somebody else they should or shouldn't have, but I can recommend the experience if you're willing. There's nothing else like it.

Coincidentally, just yesterday as I was pulling into the driveway after coming home from work, I reminisced about when my boy was younger (he's 13 now), how he used to run out of the house yelling "daddy, daddy" when I'd pull into the driveway. I remember back then how it felt almost like my heart would burst, and it would bring tears to my eyes. Just thinking about it these years later still sort of does make me feel that way. That's the kind of stuff you won't get any other way but by being a parent.

 

[rockaction]

Please post said study whereby kids are better off with a less involved father later in their years.

It was a long time ago and is explained away by unemployment. I'm not your lapdog. Post something contradictory if you feel like it.

This isn't the PSF where a ****-ton of libs get to do this. That's why that **** went and done left the boards, much to your chagrin. This type of ****.

 

[Zow]

Please post said study whereby kids are better off with a less involved father later in their years.

It was a long time ago and is explained away by unemployment. I'm not your lapdog. Post something contradictory if you feel like it.

This isn't the PSF where a ****-ton of libs get to do this. That's why that **** went and done left the boards, much to your chagrin. This type of ****.

F.O.D. for the moment.

Wat

 

[rockaction]

Lest anyone think that's too much, I'd encourage you to think about having had spent time in the PSF, where every claim contra a stupidly liberal or conservative counterclaim was met with LINK? DO YOU HAVE A LINK? YOU NEED A LINK IF YOU'RE GOING TO SAY THAT.

Eventually, the mods figured out that it was a ******** tactic and one meant to send somebody down a rabbit hole looking for it. sho nuff used to do it at every turn. It sucked. You'd find the link, and then they'd argue with the synopsis of it down to the facts and assumptions. Such a waste of time.

Woz ****ing knows.

Woz, you want to find it? Google is your friend.

And then herp derp and all that stuff.

 

[pollardsvision]

Seriously, my parents are on their way soon. I have a brother, and a nephew and niece, but really nobody else. My friends have families and live across the country. How does one suggest I not become old and a burden, other than the walk in the woods beer 30 advocates?

I say siring eight children is the way to go.

YMMV

You know how to make a good thread, my brotha.
I never had kids either, and those questions, I can't answer.

Always wanted kids, but my wife's brain injury happened in our mid-20's a few years before we were planning to have kids. That was just that.
It's hard for a lot of the reason you allude to.

I could be wrong, but I think you're joking about the "elder care" thing. The interesting part here is the question of legacy and impact.

A lot of people with a lot of kids die miserable, often alone. Many adult kids don't even like their parents all that much. You've met the average person, you know.

No matter how many swimmers got past the goalie, all that matters is the impact we leave on the one's here while we can. Do we treat people right? Are we generous? These are the only things that matter.

We can certainly leave an impact without farting out our own kids.

I think we can make more of an impact, in some ways. The parent/child relationship can have so much history and baggage. Yeah, there's a special connection that just can't be replicated. But a young adult will often find it easier to take good advice from somebody that's not their parent.

Anyway, I'm rambling. But I get the sentiment.

 

[MAC_32]

I hope the pull the plug thing is socially acceptable when I lose my marbles because I'm not going to beset my adult children with my senile problems.

 

[rockaction]

You know how to make a good thread, my brotha.

Thanks, man.

I could be wrong, but I think you're joking about the "elder care" thing.

I am not that venal or selfish. I am in the process of being around for my parents' elder care, so it's constantly on my mind. There's no doubt that colors my thoughts. But there are also a multitude of old jokes and tons of folk wisdom regarding our end-of-care on this earth. I've seen it in the generations of my own family. As a teen, I watched my grandmother basically die on the couch. It was really sad, but my Mom was determined to care for her the best my Mom could. That said a lot about my mother and my grandmother, who was by most accounts (except for my Mom's) a horrible alcoholic and terrible parent. It said a lot about how I was raised regarding the importance of family and what it all means for the end of life.

In fact, I'm surprised people are so callous as to talk about going to die in the woods and **** like that. There is a serious lack of dignity and respect for the elderly in our society, and it is embodied in some of the responses I'm reading. It's never, ever why I would think of having kids, but to be so callous is just a sign of a malformed mind that needs some existential and spiritual succor.