Concur. But use of hand was a can of worms I preferred not to open. Folks derailing threads over trivial matters has become the norm here lately and I was trying to avoid that.
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Is it ever ok to use a belt to discipline your child? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter gianmarco
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I grew up with a German father and an Irish mother. Spankings were common in both of their backgrounds and they where physical disciplinarians with us kids. Dad used his belt on bare flesh. He would raise welts. If you had been, in his view, especially bad he would use the buckle end of the belt, and that would bite chinks of flesh and leave bloody pock marks.
Mom had a yardstick she liked to use. It was oak ,much thicker than the few yardsticks you still see around, and it had brass edges.She also had a paddle displayed on the wall in our kitchen. Dad made that paddle. She would use that. In a pinch she would go for a shoe or a slipper. The paddle was never removed when company was over. It was a normal household object in my community in the 1960's.
The Grade School principal had a paddle and used it. His name was Mr. Lingus. You can imagine the names we called him.
The catholic school nuns where experts with yard sticks and pointers. Hands, butts, arms, legs, and the top of the head were all fair targets. Those #####es could have out dueled Zoro they had such expertise with a hand weapon.
I remember several friends homes also displaying paddles and heard that they were frequently employed.
My parents would generally wait to discipline until the anger, if any, had passed, though mom sometimes broke that general rule. They would explain what we had done wrong, state what we might have done, give us our whopping, and then state that they still loved us. This was how they were taught. I just remember resentment and defiance being learned, not the lessons they hoped to impart. I may have learned lessons, however, of which I was unaware.
As a parent myself I understood that there might be times where a quick swat, once, on the buttocks might be appropriate for a child prior to them reaching the age of reason. I also wondered whether that might be the best practice, but I reserved that decision to myself and would have resented the State's involvement or the involvement of busybodies. I always choose, perhaps because of my memories, to find other avenues of discipline and have never spanked my child, though I am not certain those other avenues where ultimately more kind. It seems to me children will often receive discipline only as a negative, perceiving either physical pain, psychological pain, or both. Disapproval, which can be seen as the withholding or withdrawal of love can also have lasting impact. The subject of parental discipline is a difficult one.
All that said there is some line, hard to define perhaps but recognizable by most nonetheless, that cannot or should not be crossed before State involvement becomes appropriate. My Dad certainly got up to, and I think across that line from time to time. I think Peterson did in this instance though he clearly has a clear conscience, which is interesting. His clear conscience shows the line is not so readily visible to some, or is a shifting target, not yet fixed.
In all of this I have found the discussion that this may be a black southern culture thing the most interesting. I thought this was a Germanic and a catholic thing, this spanking.
Oh, Grandpa was allowed to discipline us kids when we were in his care. Grandpa used a switch.
Mom had a yardstick she liked to use. It was oak ,much thicker than the few yardsticks you still see around, and it had brass edges.She also had a paddle displayed on the wall in our kitchen. Dad made that paddle. She would use that. In a pinch she would go for a shoe or a slipper. The paddle was never removed when company was over. It was a normal household object in my community in the 1960's.
The Grade School principal had a paddle and used it. His name was Mr. Lingus. You can imagine the names we called him.
The catholic school nuns where experts with yard sticks and pointers. Hands, butts, arms, legs, and the top of the head were all fair targets. Those #####es could have out dueled Zoro they had such expertise with a hand weapon.
I remember several friends homes also displaying paddles and heard that they were frequently employed.
My parents would generally wait to discipline until the anger, if any, had passed, though mom sometimes broke that general rule. They would explain what we had done wrong, state what we might have done, give us our whopping, and then state that they still loved us. This was how they were taught. I just remember resentment and defiance being learned, not the lessons they hoped to impart. I may have learned lessons, however, of which I was unaware.
As a parent myself I understood that there might be times where a quick swat, once, on the buttocks might be appropriate for a child prior to them reaching the age of reason. I also wondered whether that might be the best practice, but I reserved that decision to myself and would have resented the State's involvement or the involvement of busybodies. I always choose, perhaps because of my memories, to find other avenues of discipline and have never spanked my child, though I am not certain those other avenues where ultimately more kind. It seems to me children will often receive discipline only as a negative, perceiving either physical pain, psychological pain, or both. Disapproval, which can be seen as the withholding or withdrawal of love can also have lasting impact. The subject of parental discipline is a difficult one.
All that said there is some line, hard to define perhaps but recognizable by most nonetheless, that cannot or should not be crossed before State involvement becomes appropriate. My Dad certainly got up to, and I think across that line from time to time. I think Peterson did in this instance though he clearly has a clear conscience, which is interesting. His clear conscience shows the line is not so readily visible to some, or is a shifting target, not yet fixed.
In all of this I have found the discussion that this may be a black southern culture thing the most interesting. I thought this was a Germanic and a catholic thing, this spanking.
Oh, Grandpa was allowed to discipline us kids when we were in his care. Grandpa used a switch.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
My kid sister was generally subject to different rules than the boys, and that went to discipline situations as well. She was never spanked, until one time when it was assuredly going to happen. I no longer remember the transgression, as my parents saw it, that was going to lead to the spanking. I just remember my dad pulling off his belt and dragging my sister by her arm upstairs where the spankings were administered. I swear I use to see that belt coming out of the loops on his pants in slow motion when he would draw that thing.
I remember the terrified look on my sisters face. My brothers and I never had that look that I recall, we being resigned to the matter. I also remember her crying, no actually wailing in fear. Again we boys would not give him the satisfaction of crying before during or after. Stoicism was the rule. At any rate as he was dragging her to her fate my mother called out up the stairs after him to be careful not to hit her legs because she had to wear a dress to school the next day. That ##### was not concerned that her daughter was about to get belted until welts arose, but was only worried about appearances in the community should she go out with evidence of a spanking/whipping. I could not believe it. I saw red. I ran up the stairs and surprised my dad from behind and grabbed the belt and ran. There was really no where to go, but I ran until trapped. Of course to catch me he let my sister go. We had a tug of war over the belt. He won, I was 10 or 11. Well I got a whipping that night, buckle end. I remember saying during the whipping "#### You! I ####### hate you!" and "whip me all you want #######, you will never make me cry." He did, whip me that is, my profanity having enraged him. Profanity was not allowed in our house. I refused to cry out or to sniffle or simper, but I am certain my eyes teared. I remember afterwards tasting blood and my tongue bleeding, though I do not recall biting it.
In all the commotion my parents forgot to give my sister her spanking. I remember her coming into my room and thanking me in the middle of the night. I remember waking the next morning, the bed sheets stuck to my wounds. My mother angry the sheets were a mess, and angry that I could not walk well enough for me to go to school.
I remember the terrified look on my sisters face. My brothers and I never had that look that I recall, we being resigned to the matter. I also remember her crying, no actually wailing in fear. Again we boys would not give him the satisfaction of crying before during or after. Stoicism was the rule. At any rate as he was dragging her to her fate my mother called out up the stairs after him to be careful not to hit her legs because she had to wear a dress to school the next day. That ##### was not concerned that her daughter was about to get belted until welts arose, but was only worried about appearances in the community should she go out with evidence of a spanking/whipping. I could not believe it. I saw red. I ran up the stairs and surprised my dad from behind and grabbed the belt and ran. There was really no where to go, but I ran until trapped. Of course to catch me he let my sister go. We had a tug of war over the belt. He won, I was 10 or 11. Well I got a whipping that night, buckle end. I remember saying during the whipping "#### You! I ####### hate you!" and "whip me all you want #######, you will never make me cry." He did, whip me that is, my profanity having enraged him. Profanity was not allowed in our house. I refused to cry out or to sniffle or simper, but I am certain my eyes teared. I remember afterwards tasting blood and my tongue bleeding, though I do not recall biting it.
In all the commotion my parents forgot to give my sister her spanking. I remember her coming into my room and thanking me in the middle of the night. I remember waking the next morning, the bed sheets stuck to my wounds. My mother angry the sheets were a mess, and angry that I could not walk well enough for me to go to school.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Spin
Footballguy
I was spanked growing up, never with a belt. Nothing close to this. Crazy. Glad to see you're breaking the cycle.
I've spanked my own 2 year old once for ripping his hand away from his mother and running into the parking lot. He got a few steps into the lot before I caught him. I swatted his butt as I was pulling him back near our car. I didn't think about it at the time, wasn't planning on it, more natural reaction and trying to get his attention solely on me to impress upon him how dangerous that was. I didn't swing very hard but afterwards I'm still questioning if it was even effective. I always assumed I would spank for discipline since my parents, grandparents etc always have. But I find myself not doing it. I don't think I could ever use a belt or another object. I honestly don't remember stuff I did that lead to spankings, except one time I stuck a pocket knife into the wall. But I remember being spanked way more then once.
caglassc
President James Madison - Football Guru
caglassc
President James Madison - Football Guru
“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.”
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Can't argue with that. I guess if we're for the government protecting children we must be like Hitler.“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.”
shader
Footballguy
I can't understand how millions of "enlightened people" can abort their babies. I don't feel they are terrible people though. They've allowed society to delude them into thinking that it's not murder. Perhaps understanding the backgrounds of people will keep you from labeling them as "horrible people" just because they whip their kids.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
id probably put a teenager thru a wall or 2 lol
johnnycakes
Footballguy
My linkhttp://www.wcvb.com/news/lawyer-hopeful-tests-show-dead-infants-stillborn/28058304?absolute=trueThe state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.
VA703
Footballguy
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johnnycakes
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
17seconds
root of all aliai
mr roboto
Footballguy
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Why Does Everyone Pretend There's A 'Spanking Debate'?In April, an article in the Canadian Medical Association Journal analyzed two decades of data and concluded that spanking has no upside, and its downsides include increased risk for depression, anxiety, substance abuse and aggressive behavior later in life.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Starting to see a strong correlation of the board's uber religious with the pro-beating your kids to teach them 'healthy fear'. George Carlin had a great bit on this....YOU MUST FEAR THE LORD, WORSHIP HIM OR GO TO HELL......but he loves you!
General Malaise
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
Fun looking back at this thread to see who the pro-beating crowd is. Usual suspects. If anything positive comes from the Peterson abuse, it's that the iTough guys who were pro-beating kids with belts or switches look pretty stupid today.Because a belt spanking on pantzed bum isn't going to do damage, it's going to sting for a moment.. Comparing a belt spanking given by a responsible and loving parent to a whip used on a slave is
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Gandalf the Grey
Footballguy
I got into a pretty intense debate with a regular poster here, it seems like it was a decade ago but based on the dates in your quoted posts maybe it wasn't nearly so long ago (then again, these topics recycle here over and over over the years).Fun looking back at this thread to see who the pro-beating crowd is. Usual suspects. If anything positive comes from the Peterson abuse, it's that the iTough guys who were pro-beating kids with belts or switches look pretty stupid today.Because a belt spanking on pantzed bum isn't going to do damage, it's going to sting for a moment.. Comparing a belt spanking given by a responsible and loving parent to a whip used on a slave is
This poster proudly related how he would spank his child when he argued about going to bed-then when his son wouldn't stop crying he would continue to spank him until he stopped (there's some logic for you).
Spanking is for the lazy or stupid (parent). This garbage is all over FB now too, obviously because of AP. What I find maddening is the endless stream of anecdotal "When I was a kid I got spanked with..<insert appropriately horrifying implement> and I learned respect" etc etc.
Lot of people-typically conservatives who long for the good ole days when they could just immediately impose their will on /female/child/gay person/- go on to mock the use of "timeouts". That's just one behavior modification technique that's used successfully in day cares and schools across the country every day. We had some pretty rough emotionally disturbed teenagers-some inner city gang types- where I used to work and were able to manage them without giving them beat downs. Of course it's takes a little bit of effort.
I don't know how you got the belt, but for me, there were no pants involved - kind of defeats the purpose...ditto for the plastic spoon, and occasional leather hand whip - occasionally you got to keep your pants up, but really, what was the point in that?Because a belt spanking on pantzed bum isn't going to do damage, it's going to sting for a moment.. Comparing a belt spanking given by a responsible and loving parent to a whip used on a slave is
Really what this comes down to is education - what seems obvious to some/most is not obvious to all.
I think you are taking it a step to far there. We don't spank, but I would argue that a parent who does spank - and does so properly, i.e. not done in anger - has a far more difficult task of disciplining. The notion of hitting your child to inflict some pain, even as a punishment and a deterrent, is not an easy task.
Now, I will grant you that some parents spank in anger, or outrage, and without the thought process, just an immediate reaction to the behavior without any teaching moments. But not all, and I have no idea what percentage.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I am on record as being very opposed to spanking in this thread. I mock timeouts because it is more of the same laziness. Here is how it frequently goes...I got into a pretty intense debate with a regular poster here, it seems like it was a decade ago but based on the dates in your quoted posts maybe it wasn't nearly so long ago (then again, these topics recycle here over and over over the years).Fun looking back at this thread to see who the pro-beating crowd is. Usual suspects. If anything positive comes from the Peterson abuse, it's that the iTough guys who were pro-beating kids with belts or switches look pretty stupid today.Because a belt spanking on pantzed bum isn't going to do damage, it's going to sting for a moment.. Comparing a belt spanking given by a responsible and loving parent to a whip used on a slave is
This poster proudly related how he would spank his child when he argued about going to bed-then when his son wouldn't stop crying he would continue to spank him until he stopped (there's some logic for you).
Spanking is for the lazy or stupid (parent). This garbage is all over FB now too, obviously because of AP. What I find maddening is the endless stream of anecdotal "When I was a kid I got spanked with..<insert appropriately horrifying implement> and I learned respect" etc etc.
Lot of people-typically conservatives who long for the good ole days when they could just immediately impose their will on /female/child/gay person/- go on to mock the use of "timeouts". That's just one behavior modification technique that's used successfully in day cares and schools across the country every day. We had some pretty rough emotionally disturbed teenagers-some inner city gang types- where I used to work and were able to manage them without giving them beat downs. Of course it's takes a little bit of effort.
Kid Throws fit at public gathering. Parent says they are going to get a timeout. Usually followed by counting. Kid behaves for 37 seconds. Parents go back to ignoring their kids and carrying on with their own conversations. Kid misbehaves again. Timeout threatened. Kid keeps pitching a fit. Timeout now put in effect. Kid in timeout now just pitches fit sitting on a chair in corner. Parent carries on. Child now leaves chair. Parent eventually realizes and puts kid back in timeout. Rinse, repeat. Until eventually parent just loses interest and rolls with kids will be kids excuse and gives kid what they wanted or promises future reward for stopping. Kid now stops throwing fit. Parent is proud of how timeout "worked". It is almost a game. A game the child almost always wins.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Isn't that kind of the definition of stupid? Making something much harder than it needs to be for no reason at all?
cstu
Footballguy
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Judge Smails
Footballguy
Spanking is for the uninformed. Pure and simple. So much downside. You can raise healthy, happy, respectful, disciplined kids without ever laying a hand on them. If you spank, and it's because "that's how I was raised", be the one in your family who breaks the cycle.
I spanked my daughter one time and have always regretted it. Never again. My 3 are all great young adults now. It's just not necessary.
I spanked my daughter one time and have always regretted it. Never again. My 3 are all great young adults now. It's just not necessary.
bagger
Footballguy
My dad used a belt on me as a kid, now that I am a father I could not fathom hitting my child much less with a belt.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
It's ok if it is the only way to keep your child from making everyone else's life miserable.
For the crappy parents out there who are not able to control their children appropriately, spank away. It is for the greater good.
For the crappy parents out there who are not able to control their children appropriately, spank away. It is for the greater good.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I think you missed the point.proninja said:
Believe it or not there are some worse parenting styles out there than the spankers.
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Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
America is not great anymore because we don't discipline our children. It's the teachers fault, its the police fault, it is their bosses fault etc. All kids need an attitude adjustment from time to time...I can't tell you how many coaches knocked me around growing up...Authority figures were to be respected...
MattFancy
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Abuse and discipline are two different things....Putting a cigar out on someone is abuse....correcting their behavior through a swat on the ### is discipline....An "attention getter" if you will
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
with fear comes respect....i dare someone to walk into a hells angel gathering and start acting disrespectful...it would never happen ...because you know what WOULD happen...so your most basic instinct tells you ''behave or else''...when you realize what respect feels like then you learn how to apply it in all aspects of your life without fear as a motivator....i can tell you if you walk into a hells angels gathering and show respect you will get it back in return...and when you feel how nice it is to both give and receive respect consider lesson learned. (hells angels just an example ...point is when your ### is on the line you dont act like a douch...thats called respect)
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MattFancy
Footballguy
So now we're comparing fighting Hell's Angels members to disciplining your kids?
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Wrigley
Footballguy
MattFancy
Footballguy
No but I was one. Can't say my parents/coaches "knocked me around" when I was growing up. Turned out just fine.
I have an almost 4y/o daughter and a son on the way. Can't saying "knocking them around" has ever crossed my mind.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
no...im explaining how respect is earned thru fear of paying for acting like a #### head....kids can be taught up to a certain age ...most teens start to act like little ####s when they leave the house and hang around a bunch of other little ####s ...thats when the respect they learned growing up goes out the window ...now bring those teens somewhere where they dont feel safe when acting like #######s and see how fast they behave ...im talking from my own experience ...im sure there are hundreds of examples
MattFancy
Footballguy
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