Is it ever ok to use a belt to discipline your child? (1 Viewer)

[pittstownkiller]

Apparently a belt would have helped here

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but are you saying that parenting has nothing to do with this? ####ification is destroying this country. We have become a nation of handing out 7th place trophies for fear of offending people or hurting their feelings. Or creating handouts for people because they don't have the same opportunities as others. My parents were working four jobs to get by, and if I stepped outta line, I got a whooping. Looking back on it, I'm glad. It taught me a lot about respect. Something these kids don't have obviously....

Crime rates are lower now in the ####ified America than in your golden age of tough man America 20 years ago.

The golden age of tough man America certainly was not twenty years ago.

 

[greenroom]

Apparently a belt would have helped here

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but are you saying that parenting has nothing to do with this? ####ification is destroying this country. We have become a nation of handing out 7th place trophies for fear of offending people or hurting their feelings. Or creating handouts for people because they don't have the same opportunities as others. My parents were working four jobs to get by, and if I stepped outta line, I got a whooping. Looking back on it, I'm glad. It taught me a lot about respect. Something these kids don't have obviously....

Crime rates are lower now in the ####ified America than in your golden age of tough man America 20 years ago.

Overall? I'm not going to argue that. Perhaps that applies to the older crowd. But the values of young kids nowadays has gone down the ####ter. A majority of them have zero respect for anything, whether that be property or maybe even another ones life. And that falls solely on the parents.

The blame for the lack of respect by kids today lies squarely on the parents - and not because they didn't beat them enough. The kids I've seen that lack respect have had parents that want to be their buddy and/or don't require respect from them. None of that has to do with lack of physical violence. If parents don't respect themselves then their kids aren't going to respect them either.

Not saying that parents don't take the majority of blame, but society and the "PC" nature that we have developed has helped with giving children the no respect towards anything. Do I believe spanking your child on the but is child abuse. Hell No... I am not saying that you use it every time in fact the threat of it is more powerful than the actual spanking. There is a difference between beating your child and spanking. If you cannot understand that then that would be on you and your parenting style. You can only make your child sit in the corner (have a timeout), take all way the kids possessions; Guess what those also can also be considered mental abuse of children. So unless you just want to let your child walk all over you, you have to set boundaries.

 

[parasaurolophus]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

 

[the moops]

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

So you are another one without kids passing judgment on the ease of parenting?

 

[the moops]

Let me add to this. Yes, you can learn a lot about how not to parent by observing ####ty parents. That does not mean that it is easy to parent though.

 

[Pick]

Let me add to this. Yes, you can learn a lot about how not to parent by observing ####ty parents. That does not mean that it is easy to parent though.

I'm not saying non-parents don't have anything to offer here, but there is a big difference between the two and some folks don't like to admit it.

 

[Apple Jack]

Beat on the brat, beat on the brat, beat on the brat with a baseball bat oh yeah!

 

[The Commish]

Why on earth would anyone find it appropriate to make jokes about beating a child?

 

[Apple Jack]

Why on earth would anyone find it appropriate to make jokes about beating a child?

Because authority figures beating on defenseless children is awesome! Hello?

 

[Arizona Ron]

I have a daughter in kindergarten, my wife and I have never had to 'beat' her at all (let alone with an object).

If we talk to her about something she did wrong she'll breakdown in tears, we don't need to hit her.

As for me growing up, my parents never beat us; my did punch me in the face when I was about 16 or 17 (I was drunk and decided to tell him what I thought of his job as head of the household).

 

[The Commish]

Why on earth would anyone find it appropriate to make jokes about beating a child?

Because authority figures beating on defenseless children is awesome! Hello?

yeah, you're not funny...

 

[Apple Jack]

I have a daughter in kindergarten, my wife and I have never had to 'beat' her at all (let alone with an object).

If we talk to her about something she did wrong she'll breakdown in tears, we don't need to hit her.

As for me growing up, my parents never beat us; my did punch me in the face when I was about 16 or 17 (I was drunk and decided to tell him what I thought of his job as head of the household).

I'm okay with this last bit. My dad hit my brother when he was drunk around the same age. That was the only time any of the three of us were ever hit by either parent. At that age when you start thinking you know more than your parents and simultaneously are learning how to really push their buttons, a one-off well-delivered punch to the mouth is not the end of the world if you are really being a punk.

 

[Apple Jack]

Why on earth would anyone find it appropriate to make jokes about beating a child?

Because authority figures beating on defenseless children is awesome! Hello?

yeah, you're not funny...

Yeah, I'm not aiming for funny.

 

[saintsfan]

People saying spankings are abuse have no idea what abuse is. Sorry. Schools teaching kids that their parents should never spank them lead kids to believe that they can just report their parents. Horrible, horrible precedent. What they need to teach kids is the difference between discipline and abuse.

If I got out of line at school, I knew I was getting it twice as bad at home. I was spanked like 5 or 6 times in my life and it got the message across.

 

[saintsfan]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

You know nothing until you have kids of your own. Sorry. You don't.

 

[Apple Jack]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

You know nothing until you have kids of your own. Sorry. You don't.

Complete horse####. But if that makes you feel better about yourself, have at it.

The all or nothing, black and white thinking of some around here is insane.

 

[BigJohn]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

You know nothing until you have kids of your own. Sorry. You don't.

Complete horse####. But if that makes you feel better about yourself, have at it.

The all or nothing, black and white thinking of some around here is insane.

Maybe not 'nothing', but it's just as asinine to assume you know how easy it is to be a parent without being one yourself. Im a smart guy. Had great parents, have seen some pretty ###### ones in action and after 3 kids there was a LOT of things that I just wasnt prepared for. Like it or not, saintsfan is mostly right.

 

[saintsfan]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

You know nothing until you have kids of your own. Sorry. You don't.

Complete horse####. But if that makes you feel better about yourself, have at it.

The all or nothing, black and white thinking of some around here is insane.

When timeouts and kneeling in the corner and taking away everything they own doesn't work, what do you do?? I have a 16 year old, so I just withhold allowance because she is too old to spank, but my 7 year old gets a million chances and if none of that works, a couple of swift pats on the butt usually does the trick. Last resort, but I'm sorry for all you bleeding hearts, it does work. It worked on me. I wouldn't use a belt, but my hand?? Sure. If somebody else wants to use a belt, whatever. There is a huge difference between discipline and abuse and people without kids can't possibly understand this, so bull#### right back at you...

 

[Rick James]

I was whipped with a belt as a child. I don't consider it abuse. You guys are throwing around the term "beating" very liberally, I think. It's never ok to "beat" your child, but a whipping is perfectly acceptable if the action justifies it.

I don't think I'll whip my kids with a belt. Not because it's damaging or anything, I just think using your hand is just as effective and doesn't hurt as much.

 

[saintsfan]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

You know nothing until you have kids of your own. Sorry. You don't.

Complete horse####. But if that makes you feel better about yourself, have at it.

The all or nothing, black and white thinking of some around here is insane.

Maybe not 'nothing', but it's just as asinine to assume you know how easy it is to be a parent without being one yourself. Im a smart guy. Had great parents, have seen some pretty ###### ones in action and after 3 kids there was a LOT of things that I just wasnt prepared for. Like it or not, saintsfan is mostly right.

This is common these days, though. Because of social media, everybody thinks that just because they can express an opinion freely makes it valid. I've had people with dogs try to draw some parallel between their dog and my kids. It's absolute crap. I can give you an opinion on astro physics. Doesn't mean I have the slightest clue what I'm talking about and doesn't mean that somebody who is an astro physicist shouldn't mock me for even thinking I have the slightest clue what they do.

 

[Apple Jack]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

You know nothing until you have kids of your own. Sorry. You don't.

Complete horse####. But if that makes you feel better about yourself, have at it.

The all or nothing, black and white thinking of some around here is insane.

When timeouts and kneeling in the corner and taking away everything they own doesn't work, what do you do?? I have a 16 year old, so I just withhold allowance because she is too old to spank, but my 7 year old gets a million chances and if none of that works, a couple of swift pats on the butt usually does the trick. Last resort, but I'm sorry for all you bleeding hearts, it does work. It worked on me. I wouldn't use a belt, but my hand?? Sure. If somebody else wants to use a belt, whatever. There is a huge difference between discipline and abuse and people without kids can't possibly understand this, so bull#### right back at you...

You're tying me to something somebody else said.

 

[Apple Jack]

This is common these days, though. Because of social media, everybody thinks that just because they can express an opinion freely makes it valid. I've had people with dogs try to draw some parallel between their dog and my kids. It's absolute crap. I can give you an opinion on astro physics. Doesn't mean I have the slightest clue what I'm talking about and doesn't mean that somebody who is an astro physicist shouldn't mock me for even thinking I have the slightest clue what they do.

"Hey, I successfully threw a nut into somebody and have been living with a midget for awhile. I am now an expert in human behavior."

You have a very bad habit of making baseless, sweeping judgments based on your tiny little experience. "Everybody" doesn't do anything aside from get born, breathe, then die. There are similarities in conditioning dogs and children. Not many, but they exist. That being said, anybody who would put forth their experience with a dog in a conversation about raising children is an idiot. Therefore, maybe the takeaway here is not that "everybody" does anything, but that some of your friends are idiots?

 

[cstu]

I was whipped with a belt as a child. I don't consider it abuse. You guys are throwing around the term "beating" very liberally, I think. It's never ok to "beat" your child, but a whipping is perfectly acceptable if the action justifies it.

I don't think I'll whip my kids with a belt. Not because it's damaging or anything, I just think using your hand is just as effective and doesn't hurt as much.

The bolded is a very important part. What behavior do you believe justifies it?

 

[The Commish]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

You know nothing until you have kids of your own. Sorry. You don't.

Complete horse####. But if that makes you feel better about yourself, have at it.

The all or nothing, black and white thinking of some around here is insane.

When timeouts and kneeling in the corner and taking away everything they own doesn't work, what do you do?? I have a 16 year old, so I just withhold allowance because she is too old to spank, but my 7 year old gets a million chances and if none of that works, a couple of swift pats on the butt usually does the trick. Last resort, but I'm sorry for all you bleeding hearts, it does work. It worked on me. I wouldn't use a belt, but my hand?? Sure. If somebody else wants to use a belt, whatever. There is a huge difference between discipline and abuse and people without kids can't possibly understand this, so bull#### right back at you...

I hadn't had to think about this question until recently. The answer for me has been "figure out what it is that motivates them and use it". My son was perfectly content with a "punishment" of no TV. That's because he had a billion toys. So I took the toys away too. He was fine with that because he had the iPad....took that away too. I kept on going until I found what would matter to him. Turns out it was going outside to play. I've spanked my child once and it was a "get his attention" pop on the butt because he was crying uncontrollably. Once I had his attention, we could move on to fixing the problem. I won't say that spanking is NEVER off the table. I don't even question that it works. I just think that one should be using it as an absolute LAST resort. Anyone who goes to it as their defacto way of parenting/punishing is a lacking parent IMO.

 

[Apple Jack]

I hadn't had to think about this question until recently. The answer for me has been "figure out what it is that motivates them and use it". My son was perfectly content with a "punishment" of no TV. That's because he had a billion toys. So I took the toys away too. He was fine with that because he had the iPad....took that away too. I kept on going until I found what would matter to him. Turns out it was going outside to play. I've spanked my child once and it was a "get his attention" pop on the butt because he was crying uncontrollably. Once I had his attention, we could move on to fixing the problem. I won't say that spanking is NEVER off the table. I don't even question that it works. I just think that one should be using it as an absolute LAST resort. Anyone who goes to it as their defacto way of parenting/punishing is a lacking parent IMO.

This.

 

[Rick James]

I was whipped with a belt as a child. I don't consider it abuse. You guys are throwing around the term "beating" very liberally, I think. It's never ok to "beat" your child, but a whipping is perfectly acceptable if the action justifies it.

I don't think I'll whip my kids with a belt. Not because it's damaging or anything, I just think using your hand is just as effective and doesn't hurt as much.

The bolded is a very important part. What behavior do you believe justifies it?

* Throwing mud cakes on my grandmother's brand new vinyl siding

* lighting my brother's bed on fire (he wasn't in the bed)

* hitting a baseball through our glass window

* lying

Those are just a few of the reasons why I was whipped as a kid.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

This is common these days, though. Because of social media, everybody thinks that just because they can express an opinion freely makes it valid. I've had people with dogs try to draw some parallel between their dog and my kids. It's absolute crap. I can give you an opinion on astro physics. Doesn't mean I have the slightest clue what I'm talking about and doesn't mean that somebody who is an astro physicist shouldn't mock me for even thinking I have the slightest clue what they do.

The dog thing seems to be a pretty common one.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I hadn't had to think about this question until recently. The answer for me has been "figure out what it is that motivates them and use it". My son was perfectly content with a "punishment" of no TV. That's because he had a billion toys. So I took the toys away too. He was fine with that because he had the iPad....took that away too. I kept on going until I found what would matter to him. Turns out it was going outside to play. I've spanked my child once and it was a "get his attention" pop on the butt because he was crying uncontrollably. Once I had his attention, we could move on to fixing the problem. I won't say that spanking is NEVER off the table. I don't even question that it works. I just think that one should be using it as an absolute LAST resort. Anyone who goes to it as their defacto way of parenting/punishing is a lacking parent IMO.

This.

x2

 

[saintsfan]

This is common these days, though. Because of social media, everybody thinks that just because they can express an opinion freely makes it valid. I've had people with dogs try to draw some parallel between their dog and my kids. It's absolute crap. I can give you an opinion on astro physics. Doesn't mean I have the slightest clue what I'm talking about and doesn't mean that somebody who is an astro physicist shouldn't mock me for even thinking I have the slightest clue what they do.

"Hey, I successfully threw a nut into somebody and have been living with a midget for awhile. I am now an expert in human behavior."

You have a very bad habit of making baseless, sweeping judgments based on your tiny little experience. "Everybody" doesn't do anything aside from get born, breathe, then die. There are similarities in conditioning dogs and children. Not many, but they exist. That being said, anybody who would put forth their experience with a dog in a conversation about raising children is an idiot. Therefore, maybe the takeaway here is not that "everybody" does anything, but that some of your friends are idiots?

Hey, I have NO children and NO experience raising them and even refer to them as midgets, so I'm going to tell you how to raise yours...

 

[saintsfan]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

You know nothing until you have kids of your own. Sorry. You don't.

Complete horse####. But if that makes you feel better about yourself, have at it.

The all or nothing, black and white thinking of some around here is insane.

When timeouts and kneeling in the corner and taking away everything they own doesn't work, what do you do?? I have a 16 year old, so I just withhold allowance because she is too old to spank, but my 7 year old gets a million chances and if none of that works, a couple of swift pats on the butt usually does the trick. Last resort, but I'm sorry for all you bleeding hearts, it does work. It worked on me. I wouldn't use a belt, but my hand?? Sure. If somebody else wants to use a belt, whatever. There is a huge difference between discipline and abuse and people without kids can't possibly understand this, so bull#### right back at you...

I hadn't had to think about this question until recently. The answer for me has been "figure out what it is that motivates them and use it". My son was perfectly content with a "punishment" of no TV. That's because he had a billion toys. So I took the toys away too. He was fine with that because he had the iPad....took that away too. I kept on going until I found what would matter to him. Turns out it was going outside to play. I've spanked my child once and it was a "get his attention" pop on the butt because he was crying uncontrollably. Once I had his attention, we could move on to fixing the problem. I won't say that spanking is NEVER off the table. I don't even question that it works. I just think that one should be using it as an absolute LAST resort. Anyone who goes to it as their defacto way of parenting/punishing is a lacking parent IMO.

I think that's what I said and I agree 100%. Last resort, no problem. But, I'm sorry. People without kids judging really have no clue what they are talking about.

 

[Apple Jack]

I think that's what I said and I agree 100%. Last resort, no problem. But, I'm sorry. People without kids judging really have no clue what they are talking about.

I don't have kids and I'll bet I have a broader range of experience with conditioning children than you do.

 

[saintsfan]

I think that's what I said and I agree 100%. Last resort, no problem. But, I'm sorry. People without kids judging really have no clue what they are talking about.

I don't have kids and I'll bet I have a broader range of experience with conditioning children than you do.

"Conditioning" other people's children is not the same as raising your own. I work with children as well. Not remotely the same.

 

[The Commish]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

You know nothing until you have kids of your own. Sorry. You don't.

Complete horse####. But if that makes you feel better about yourself, have at it.

The all or nothing, black and white thinking of some around here is insane.

When timeouts and kneeling in the corner and taking away everything they own doesn't work, what do you do?? I have a 16 year old, so I just withhold allowance because she is too old to spank, but my 7 year old gets a million chances and if none of that works, a couple of swift pats on the butt usually does the trick. Last resort, but I'm sorry for all you bleeding hearts, it does work. It worked on me. I wouldn't use a belt, but my hand?? Sure. If somebody else wants to use a belt, whatever. There is a huge difference between discipline and abuse and people without kids can't possibly understand this, so bull#### right back at you...

I hadn't had to think about this question until recently. The answer for me has been "figure out what it is that motivates them and use it". My son was perfectly content with a "punishment" of no TV. That's because he had a billion toys. So I took the toys away too. He was fine with that because he had the iPad....took that away too. I kept on going until I found what would matter to him. Turns out it was going outside to play. I've spanked my child once and it was a "get his attention" pop on the butt because he was crying uncontrollably. Once I had his attention, we could move on to fixing the problem. I won't say that spanking is NEVER off the table. I don't even question that it works. I just think that one should be using it as an absolute LAST resort. Anyone who goes to it as their defacto way of parenting/punishing is a lacking parent IMO.

I think that's what I said and I agree 100%. Last resort, no problem. But, I'm sorry. People without kids judging really have no clue what they are talking about.

I'm not arguing with you...just responding I will say that there's a difference between working with kids and working with YOUR kids though. I think some might underestimate that part.

 

[12punch]

What about yelling at your kids?You people are so insensitive to their feelings.

For a guy that doesn't have any children of his own, you sure do have a lot of opinions about how people should best raise them.

Don't have to raise my own to recognize flaws in the partenting of others.

That may be true. But there are pretty large aspects of parenting that only a parent, or someone trained in parenting, really knows.

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

You know nothing until you have kids of your own. Sorry. You don't.

Complete horse####. But if that makes you feel better about yourself, have at it. The all or nothing, black and white thinking of some around here is insane.

Maybe not 'nothing', but it's just as asinine to assume you know how easy it is to be a parent without being one yourself. Im a smart guy. Had great parents, have seen some pretty ###### ones in action and after 3 kids there was a LOT of things that I just wasnt prepared for. Like it or not, saintsfan is mostly right.

This is common these days, though. Because of social media, everybody thinks that just because they can express an opinion freely makes it valid. I've had people with dogs try to draw some parallel between their dog and my kids. It's absolute crap. I can give you an opinion on astro physics. Doesn't mean I have the slightest clue what I'm talking about and doesn't mean that somebody who is an astro physicist shouldn't mock me for even thinking I have the slightest clue what they do.

Looooooooooooll parenting = astrophysics!!!

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm not arguing with you...just responding I will say that there's a difference between working with kids and working with YOUR kids though. I think some might underestimate that part.

"Alright, when this kid goes home today I'm going to work on a new plan to completely revamp our relationship while I work with him the next time he comes in"

versus

"If this little ####### doesn't go to sleep soon so that I can try to get 3 hours before I get up and make him breakfast, I'm going to murder him."

 

[saintsfan]

I'm not arguing with you...just responding I will say that there's a difference between working with kids and working with YOUR kids though. I think some might underestimate that part.

They completely underestimate it. First, most kids, meaning kids who don't do things that are likely to get them put in jail, save their worst and most disrespectful behavior for their parents. Why?? Because ultimately, they know that Mom and Dad aren't going anywhere. Working with other people's children, not only do you often times see those kids best behavior, but ultimately, you don't have a stake in their development. If you are a teacher, you only have to get them to the next grade, then they are somebody else's problem. If you are a therapist or something, once they are no longer in your care, they are ALSO not your problem AND you get paid even if what you try doesn't work. You can always send them somewhere else. If you've tried everything you can, you just recommend another specialist. Once again, not your problem or your responsibility. At the end of the day, you lock the door to your office and go home. I'm a youth director. Work with other people's kids all the time. If they get too out of hand, I just call their parents. I love them and I care what happens to them, but ultimately, they are not my problem.

Your own kids are ALWAYS your problem. No door to lock or no place to go once your day is over and nobody else you can call.

 

[maxwelledison]

I voted no but not because I'm against physical reprimands. The bottom line is parenting sometimes calls for intimidation and, occasionally, contact. I'm pretty sure no right thinking person endorses beatings or excessive contact but to say one can never lay a hand on their child is absurd, IMO.

No, it doesn't.

I think it does but we have to define our terms here.

Say your 2 year-old hits another kid - in that situation IMO a stern talking to is in order (aside from the obvious apology). I consider that stern talking to a very mild form of intimidation; it is necessary and appropriate but the fact that the parent is bigger, stronger, in a position of authority and is adopting a certain tone is a subtle, and very effective, form of intimidation. Now if you think that a stern talking to is not in order and that you can just explain to a two year old why you don't hit then we are ships passing in the night.

 

[Apple Jack]

I'm not arguing with you...just responding I will say that there's a difference between working with kids and working with YOUR kids though. I think some might underestimate that part.

They completely underestimate it. First, most kids, meaning kids who don't do things that are likely to get them put in jail, save their worst and most disrespectful behavior for their parents. Why?? Because ultimately, they know that Mom and Dad aren't going anywhere. Working with other people's children, not only do you often times see those kids best behavior, but ultimately, you don't have a stake in their development. If you are a teacher, you only have to get them to the next grade, then they are somebody else's problem. If you are a therapist or something, once they are no longer in your care, they are ALSO not your problem AND you get paid even if what you try doesn't work. You can always send them somewhere else. If you've tried everything you can, you just recommend another specialist. Once again, not your problem or your responsibility. At the end of the day, you lock the door to your office and go home. I'm a youth director. Work with other people's kids all the time. If they get too out of hand, I just call their parents. I love them and I care what happens to them, but ultimately, they are not my problem.

Your own kids are ALWAYS your problem. No door to lock or no place to go once your day is over and nobody else you can call.

Again with baseless, sweeping judgments about people you have never met, let alone even heard from. Give it a rest. I concede that you successfully impregnating a woman makes you an expert on all things children and anybody who has not impregnated a woman knows "nothing."

And I'm guessing you don't have any brothers or sisters you are close with with kids?

 

[saintsfan]

I'm not arguing with you...just responding I will say that there's a difference between working with kids and working with YOUR kids though. I think some might underestimate that part.

They completely underestimate it. First, most kids, meaning kids who don't do things that are likely to get them put in jail, save their worst and most disrespectful behavior for their parents. Why?? Because ultimately, they know that Mom and Dad aren't going anywhere. Working with other people's children, not only do you often times see those kids best behavior, but ultimately, you don't have a stake in their development. If you are a teacher, you only have to get them to the next grade, then they are somebody else's problem. If you are a therapist or something, once they are no longer in your care, they are ALSO not your problem AND you get paid even if what you try doesn't work. You can always send them somewhere else. If you've tried everything you can, you just recommend another specialist. Once again, not your problem or your responsibility. At the end of the day, you lock the door to your office and go home. I'm a youth director. Work with other people's kids all the time. If they get too out of hand, I just call their parents. I love them and I care what happens to them, but ultimately, they are not my problem.

Your own kids are ALWAYS your problem. No door to lock or no place to go once your day is over and nobody else you can call.

Again with baseless, sweeping judgments about people you have never met, let alone even heard from. Give it a rest. I concede that you successfully impregnating a woman makes you an expert on all things children and anybody who has no impregnated a woman knows "nothing."

And I'm guessing you don't have any brothers or sisters with kids?

I have 16 years experience working with my own children and 7 years working as a youth minister with various kids with different economic backgrounds. I have some experience with this. I don't claim to be the end all and be all, but I certainly know more about raising children than somebody with no children, but whatever makes you happy in your bubble.

 

[saintsfan]

I'm not arguing with you...just responding I will say that there's a difference between working with kids and working with YOUR kids though. I think some might underestimate that part.

They completely underestimate it. First, most kids, meaning kids who don't do things that are likely to get them put in jail, save their worst and most disrespectful behavior for their parents. Why?? Because ultimately, they know that Mom and Dad aren't going anywhere. Working with other people's children, not only do you often times see those kids best behavior, but ultimately, you don't have a stake in their development. If you are a teacher, you only have to get them to the next grade, then they are somebody else's problem. If you are a therapist or something, once they are no longer in your care, they are ALSO not your problem AND you get paid even if what you try doesn't work. You can always send them somewhere else. If you've tried everything you can, you just recommend another specialist. Once again, not your problem or your responsibility. At the end of the day, you lock the door to your office and go home. I'm a youth director. Work with other people's kids all the time. If they get too out of hand, I just call their parents. I love them and I care what happens to them, but ultimately, they are not my problem.

Your own kids are ALWAYS your problem. No door to lock or no place to go once your day is over and nobody else you can call.

Again with baseless, sweeping judgments about people you have never met, let alone even heard from. Give it a rest. I concede that you successfully impregnating a woman makes you an expert on all things children and anybody who has not impregnated a woman knows "nothing."

And I'm guessing you don't have any brothers or sisters you are close with with kids?

And my brother has a daughter and my sister in laws all have multiple kids. All of them have used some form of spanking. Not in any way excessive, but as a last resort, why not?? I also lead a youth band made up of nothing but kids and a youth group with 25 kids. Not to mention all the friends of my two kids. Lots of kids in my life.

 

[timschochet]

People saying spankings are abuse have no idea what abuse is. Sorry. Schools teaching kids that their parents should never spank them lead kids to believe that they can just report their parents. Horrible, horrible precedent. What they need to teach kids is the difference between discipline and abuse.

If I got out of line at school, I knew I was getting it twice as bad at home. I was spanked like 5 or 6 times in my life and it got the message across.

Obviously there are different levels of abuse. I spanked my daughters, at times, when they were little. Usually one hard spank. Some parents don't. I don't regard spanking, within limits, as abusive.

But the title of this thread involves using a belt. IMO, if you use a belt, that's too much. Is it abuse? Not necessarily, though you're getting closer. But it IS bad and lazy parenting.

 

[Apple Jack]

I have 16 years experience working with my own children and 7 years working as a youth minister with various kids with different economic backgrounds. I have some experience with this. I don't claim to be the end all and be all, but I certainly know more about raising children than somebody with no children, but whatever makes you happy in your bubble.

Fine, but your ridiculous sweeping judgment is that all people who have their own children know better than all people who don't have their own children. And as a former counselor for at risk youths in San Francisco and very involved uncle to two recently adopted, formerly beaten in a lifetime of foster care boys, I can assure you that nothing could be farther from the truth. My friends and family are great with their kids, but I have definitely been exposed to countless parents who weren't fit to mind a cactus, let alone their children. Being a parent does not inherently make you a good parent, nor does it make you wiser than some who are not themselves parents.

 

[saintsfan]

I have 16 years experience working with my own children and 7 years working as a youth minister with various kids with different economic backgrounds. I have some experience with this. I don't claim to be the end all and be all, but I certainly know more about raising children than somebody with no children, but whatever makes you happy in your bubble.

Fine, but your ridiculous sweeping judgment is that all people who have their own children know better than all people who don't have their own children.

You are making just as sweeping a judgement, but with no experience to make it. A crack addict who has a child that they use to pick up hits from their dealer is not what we are talking about here. You are also making sweeping judgements about anybody who does any form of spanking saying it is abuse and I am pointing out that people with no children have absolutely no experience to make that judgement. Sorry, you don't. I'm not talking about abuse. Everyone knows that is wrong whether you have children or not.

 

[Apple Jack]

I have 16 years experience working with my own children and 7 years working as a youth minister with various kids with different economic backgrounds. I have some experience with this. I don't claim to be the end all and be all, but I certainly know more about raising children than somebody with no children, but whatever makes you happy in your bubble.

Fine, but your ridiculous sweeping judgment is that all people who have their own children know better than all people who don't have their own children.

You are making just as sweeping a judgement, but with no experience to make it. A crack addict who has a child that they use to pick up hits from their dealer is not what we are talking about here. You are also making sweeping judgements about anybody who does any form of spanking saying it is abuse and I am pointing out that people with no children have absolutely no experience to make that judgement. Sorry, you don't. I'm not talking about abuse. Everyone knows that is wrong whether you have children or not.

Link?

Again, congrats on impregnating a woman, but that does not make every parent on the face of the earth wise in the way s of good parenting and every non-parent clueless. But I will say the "ministry" comment at least sheds some light on your relentless need to make an endlessly nuanced subject black and white.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I have 16 years experience working with my own children and 7 years working as a youth minister with various kids with different economic backgrounds. I have some experience with this. I don't claim to be the end all and be all, but I certainly know more about raising children than somebody with no children, but whatever makes you happy in your bubble.

Fine, but your ridiculous sweeping judgment is that all people who have their own children know better than all people who don't have their own children.

You are making just as sweeping a judgement, but with no experience to make it. A crack addict who has a child that they use to pick up hits from their dealer is not what we are talking about here. You are also making sweeping judgements about anybody who does any form of spanking saying it is abuse and I am pointing out that people with no children have absolutely no experience to make that judgement. Sorry, you don't. I'm not talking about abuse. Everyone knows that is wrong whether you have children or not.

Link?

Again, congrats on impregnating a woman, but that does not make every parent on the face of the earth wise in the way s of good parenting and every non-parent clueless. But I will say the "ministry" comment at least sheds some light on your relentless need to make an endlessly nuanced subject black and white.

Is it that hard to swallow the fact that your lack of experiance eliminates you from what he's talking about? Do you really feel as if you need to particpate, in this subject, that much?

 

[Apple Jack]

I have 16 years experience working with my own children and 7 years working as a youth minister with various kids with different economic backgrounds. I have some experience with this. I don't claim to be the end all and be all, but I certainly know more about raising children than somebody with no children, but whatever makes you happy in your bubble.

Fine, but your ridiculous sweeping judgment is that all people who have their own children know better than all people who don't have their own children.

You are making just as sweeping a judgement, but with no experience to make it. A crack addict who has a child that they use to pick up hits from their dealer is not what we are talking about here. You are also making sweeping judgements about anybody who does any form of spanking saying it is abuse and I am pointing out that people with no children have absolutely no experience to make that judgement. Sorry, you don't. I'm not talking about abuse. Everyone knows that is wrong whether you have children or not.

Link?

Again, congrats on impregnating a woman, but that does not make every parent on the face of the earth wise in the way s of good parenting and every non-parent clueless. But I will say the "ministry" comment at least sheds some light on your relentless need to make an endlessly nuanced subject black and white.

Is it that hard to swallow the fact that your lack of experiance eliminates you from what he's talking about? Do you really feel as if you need to particpate, in this subject, that much?

No, but having spent quite a bit of time cleaning up after the messes of bad parents, I am qualified to speak on the subject.

Plus, everybody here was a child. Everybody here is qualified on some level to address the subject. It's not a good reflection on your analyzation skills to suggest that simply being a parent inherently makes one more wise. Here's a newsflash for you...a lot of parents are morons and don't learn the lessons presented to them. Additionally, a lot of people who are not parents have extensive experience with kids in those extreme scenarios that test patience and are far wiser. But you both seem incapable of grasping this reality, so I'm going to accept that and let the rest of the words be yours.

 

[The Commish]

I'm not arguing with you...just responding I will say that there's a difference between working with kids and working with YOUR kids though. I think some might underestimate that part.

"Alright, when this kid goes home today I'm going to work on a new plan to completely revamp our relationship while I work with him the next time he comes in"

versus

"If this little ####### doesn't go to sleep soon so that I can try to get 3 hours before I get up and make him breakfast, I'm going to murder him."

what?

 

[parasaurolophus]

There is not much you can't learn from your own parents, other parents, and some common sense. Parenting is not as complicated as many people like to make it sound. In fact it is pretty easy to learn a lot about parenting by spending one day with today's typical lazy parent.

So you are another one without kids passing judgment on the ease of parenting?

Nope. I am a parent.

There isn't that much that the experience of parenting has taught me. I went into parenting with a plan and have pretty much stuck with that plan. Just because somebody has kids doesn't make them qualified. There are people that I know that don't have kids that I already know will be better parents than most people I know that have kids. I would trust these people with my son in a heartbeat should anything happen to me.

The vast majority of parents out there are lazy and simply not willing to make the necessary sacrifices in life that parenting frequently requires. We have all sat by these parents in restaurants where the only way they convince their children to behave during dinner is by promising them ice cream afterwards and giving them an ipad at the table.

There are plenty of managers all across the country in various fields that never performed the task they manage.

 

[The Commish]

I have 16 years experience working with my own children and 7 years working as a youth minister with various kids with different economic backgrounds. I have some experience with this. I don't claim to be the end all and be all, but I certainly know more about raising children than somebody with no children, but whatever makes you happy in your bubble.

Fine, but your ridiculous sweeping judgment is that all people who have their own children know better than all people who don't have their own children.

You are making just as sweeping a judgement, but with no experience to make it. A crack addict who has a child that they use to pick up hits from their dealer is not what we are talking about here. You are also making sweeping judgements about anybody who does any form of spanking saying it is abuse and I am pointing out that people with no children have absolutely no experience to make that judgement. Sorry, you don't. I'm not talking about abuse. Everyone knows that is wrong whether you have children or not.

Link?

Again, congrats on impregnating a woman, but that does not make every parent on the face of the earth wise in the way s of good parenting and every non-parent clueless. But I will say the "ministry" comment at least sheds some light on your relentless need to make an endlessly nuanced subject black and white.

Is it that hard to swallow the fact that your lack of experiance eliminates you from what he's talking about? Do you really feel as if you need to particpate, in this subject, that much?

No, but having spent quite a bit of time cleaning up after the messes of bad parents, I am qualified to speak on the subject.

Plus, everybody here was a child. Everybody here is qualified on some level to address the subject. It's not a good reflection on your analyzation skills to suggest that simply being a parent inherently makes one more wise. Here's a newsflash for you...a lot of parents are morons and don't learn the lessons presented to them. Additionally, a lot of people who are not parents have extensive experience with kids in those extreme scenarios that test patience and are far wiser. But you both seem incapable of grasping this reality, so I'm going to accept that and let the rest of the words be yours.

I think what saintsfan is trying to say is that there is a dynamic between child and parent that no one but that child and/or parent can explain/describe. I tend to agree with him. As a parent, I know I get this tunnel vision of what my kids are. I look at them in a vacuum. It's not until I start comparing them to other kids to see how really good/bad they really are. There are times where I think they are absolutely intolerable. Running around the house, screaming like lunatics being loud, "talking back", not cooperating etc etc. However, all it takes is an observation of other children by me, or a comment from their teacher suggesting how well behaved they are to remind me of them in the bigger picture.

I remember when we'd have parent/teacher conferences and my son's teacher would always talk about how well behaved my son was or how cooperative he was. For a while, I thought they were just lying to me to get me in/out because what they were describing was NOT what I dealt with at home. No matter how much we are around other kids, there is NOTHING like that relationship between parent and child. Yes, you can get close, but it's not quite the same. I'm just glad that my kid is great with others and gives me the grief instead of him being great with me and giving others the grief.

 

[gianmarco]

I have 16 years experience working with my own children and 7 years working as a youth minister with various kids with different economic backgrounds. I have some experience with this. I don't claim to be the end all and be all, but I certainly know more about raising children than somebody with no children, but whatever makes you happy in your bubble.

Fine, but your ridiculous sweeping judgment is that all people who have their own children know better than all people who don't have their own children.

You are making just as sweeping a judgement, but with no experience to make it. A crack addict who has a child that they use to pick up hits from their dealer is not what we are talking about here. You are also making sweeping judgements about anybody who does any form of spanking saying it is abuse and I am pointing out that people with no children have absolutely no experience to make that judgement. Sorry, you don't. I'm not talking about abuse. Everyone knows that is wrong whether you have children or not.

Link?

Again, congrats on impregnating a woman, but that does not make every parent on the face of the earth wise in the way s of good parenting and every non-parent clueless. But I will say the "ministry" comment at least sheds some light on your relentless need to make an endlessly nuanced subject black and white.

Is it that hard to swallow the fact that your lack of experiance eliminates you from what he's talking about? Do you really feel as if you need to particpate, in this subject, that much?

No, but having spent quite a bit of time cleaning up after the messes of bad parents, I am qualified to speak on the subject.

Plus, everybody here was a child. Everybody here is qualified on some level to address the subject. It's not a good reflection on your analyzation skills to suggest that simply being a parent inherently makes one more wise. Here's a newsflash for you...a lot of parents are morons and don't learn the lessons presented to them. Additionally, a lot of people who are not parents have extensive experience with kids in those extreme scenarios that test patience and are far wiser. But you both seem incapable of grasping this reality, so I'm going to accept that and let the rest of the words be yours.

I think what saintsfan is trying to say is that there is a dynamic between child and parent that no one but that child and/or parent can explain/describe. I tend to agree with him. As a parent, I know I get this tunnel vision of what my kids are. I look at them in a vacuum. It's not until I start comparing them to other kids to see how really good/bad they really are. There are times where I think they are absolutely intolerable. Running around the house, screaming like lunatics being loud, "talking back", not cooperating etc etc. However, all it takes is an observation of other children by me, or a comment from their teacher suggesting how well behaved they are to remind me of them in the bigger picture.

I remember when we'd have parent/teacher conferences and my son's teacher would always talk about how well behaved my son was or how cooperative he was. For a while, I thought they were just lying to me to get me in/out because what they were describing was NOT what I dealt with at home. No matter how much we are around other kids, there is NOTHING like that relationship between parent and child. Yes, you can get close, but it's not quite the same. I'm just glad that my kid is great with others and gives me the grief instead of him being great with me and giving others the grief.