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Is Norv Turner the worst coach ever? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Yellow Line is Unoffcial
- Start date
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
Marty Morningwheg - he took the wind in overtime.
/thread
/thread
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
How bad was he? People are even forgetting his first name. He really is the one guy who should be up there (instead of Norv - Norv does not hold a candle to David Shula). 4 Mike Brown hires mentioned. Interesting. Marvin pisses me off at times, but he's not in this class.
-QG
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Marion Campbell (34-80-1) and Bert Bell (10-46-2) were much better in their other football roles. Phil Handler was the forgettable coach of the war-decimated Cardinals. He went 4-34 for his career. David Shula (19-52) was no Don.
DoubleG
Footballguy
bad team <> bad coachI don't see how this isn't the run away winner.
NYCGangGreen
Footballguy
Art 
Shell
Shell
SSOG
Moderator
Any coach whose team is better under his watch than it was before he got there can't be considered one of the worst coaches in history. Kubiak's all-time win% is 45%... which is a little bit more impressive when you consider the Texans' all-time win% before Kubiak showed up was 28%.Also, while I agree that McDaniels probably sucks, I'm of the opinion that you can't declare a coach among the worst of all time until he actually... you know... loses a game. I'm just crazy like that, I guess.
SSOG
Moderator
Saban? As in, Nick Saban? Took over a 4-12 team, went 9-7 with it Nick Saban? Just making sure we're talking about the same guy. Saban was below average, but he wasn't historically bad or anything.Maybe you meant Lou Saban.
SSOG
Moderator
Only three coaches have ever taken the wind in NFL history. One of them was Hank Stram, a Hall of Famer. Another was Mike Shanahan, a guy who might well join Stram in the HoF one day. The third was Morningwheg. Obviously taking the wind in overtime does not automatically make someone a bad coach. Especially when you consider that teams that took the wind have a 66% winning percentage.
SuperGreen
Footballguy
les steckel, cam cameron, rod rust?
Steckel has to be the worst. I can't believe it took 60 posts before his name was mentioned.
SSOG
Moderator
Based on the numbers...
Most games coached without a win: 13
Faye Abbott, Dayton Triangles ('28-'29)
Worst winning percentage all-time (minimum 20 games): 8.0%
Harvey Johnson, Buffalo Bills ('68, '71)
(honorable mention: Bill Peterson, 5.3% over 19 games)
Worst winning percentage all-time (minimum 50 games): 17.9%
Bert Bell, Pittsburgh Steelers ('36-'41)
Most games below .500: 46
Marion Campbell, Atlanta Falcons ('74-'76), Philadelphia Eagles ('83-'85), Atlanta Falcons ('87-'89)
Most seasons without a playoff appearance: 13
Norm Van Brocklin, Minnesota Vikings ('61-'66), Atlanta Falcons ('68-'74)
Most career losses by a coach with a sub-.500 record: 107
Sam Wyche, Cincinnati Bengals ('84-'91), Tampa Bay Buccaneers ('92-'95)
Turner checks in 5th on the list of losses by a coach with a sub-.500 record with 95. He'll be second by the end of the season unless the Chargers go 12-4.
Most games coached without a win: 13
Faye Abbott, Dayton Triangles ('28-'29)
Worst winning percentage all-time (minimum 20 games): 8.0%
Harvey Johnson, Buffalo Bills ('68, '71)
(honorable mention: Bill Peterson, 5.3% over 19 games)
Worst winning percentage all-time (minimum 50 games): 17.9%
Bert Bell, Pittsburgh Steelers ('36-'41)
Most games below .500: 46
Marion Campbell, Atlanta Falcons ('74-'76), Philadelphia Eagles ('83-'85), Atlanta Falcons ('87-'89)
Most seasons without a playoff appearance: 13
Norm Van Brocklin, Minnesota Vikings ('61-'66), Atlanta Falcons ('68-'74)
Most career losses by a coach with a sub-.500 record: 107
Sam Wyche, Cincinnati Bengals ('84-'91), Tampa Bay Buccaneers ('92-'95)
Turner checks in 5th on the list of losses by a coach with a sub-.500 record with 95. He'll be second by the end of the season unless the Chargers go 12-4.
SSOG
Moderator
59.4% winning percentage = not among the worst coaches of all time. Even if his game-day decisions left something to be desired (and there are plenty worse game day coaches out there), that's just one aspect of a coach's job (albeit the most visible and easily criticized). Schottenheimer was a pretty poor game-day coach, but he only had 2 losing seasons in 21 years despite repeatedly taking over downright awful teams because, at the end of the day, what you do on game day is far less important than what you do on the 6 days leading up to it (and that, in turn, is less important than what you do in the offseason and in TCs and the preseason).ookook said:
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Chaka
Footballguy
In before someone says how a blind monkey with a learning disability (not named Norv Turner) could coach this Chargers team to 11 wins and a first round bye.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I dont think Norv is getting enough credit for helping to mold Rivers into the QB he is.Norvs done a great job this year with all the issues on the D line and O line.In before someone says how a blind monkey with a learning disability (not named Norv Turner) could coach this Chargers team to 11 wins and a first round bye.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Norv is doing a great Job in SD; and his oak run wasn't that bad.... they actually had an offense when he was there.bicycle_seat_sniffer said:I dont think Norv is getting enough credit for helping to mold Rivers into the QB he is.Norvs done a great job this year with all the issues on the D line and O line.Chaka said:In before someone says how a blind monkey with a learning disability (not named Norv Turner) could coach this Chargers team to 11 wins and a first round bye.Raider Nation said:
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
eric mangini
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Do you mean David Shula?
Turner is looking pretty good compared to a lot of coaches.
No one has mentioned Steve Spurrier and Jim Zorn. Spurrier was known to not even have pro style practices.
Les Steckel and Ray Handley were the other names that came to mind immediately. Richie Petibon could be up there too.
No one has mentioned Steve Spurrier and Jim Zorn. Spurrier was known to not even have pro style practices.
Les Steckel and Ray Handley were the other names that came to mind immediately. Richie Petibon could be up there too.
PhilLynott
Footballguy
For an expansion team to lose its first 26 games and make the NFC Championship in its 4th year is quite a coaching accomplishment.My vote for worst coach is Hank Bullough. If you don't recognize the name, he took over as coach of the Bills in 1985 and got canned half way through the '86 season.
Of the last six Redskins coaches, Norv has by far the best record, and in fact is the only one of the six who has a winning record. (That includes Marty Schottenheimer.)With the Chargers, Norv has the best winning percentage of all time in both the regular season and the playoffs. (That includes Sid Gillman, Don Coryell, and yes, Marty Schottenheimer.)
I don't think he's the worst coach ever.
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Polar Dude
Footballguy
The Chargers have only had a handful of seasons where they have won more games than they have this year (with two yet to play) - '61 under Gilman, '79 under Coryell, '04 and '06 under Schotty. That's it. I'm not sure this year's iteration has any more talent than any of those other teams, especially with such heavy losses to the OL, having Jamaal Williams on the IR all year, an ever-revolving roster of safeties, and one of the weakest rushing attacks this team has ever fielded.
Chaka
Footballguy
Huh?The last six Redskins coaches:
Zorn is 12-18 (.400)
Gibbs was 30-34 (.469) during his tenure under Snyder
Spurrier was 12-20 (.375)
Marty was 8-8 with the 'skins and is 200-126-1 for his career.
Robiskie was 1-2 (interim after Turner got fired)
Turner went 49-59-1 (.454) with the Redskins and is 88-98-1 for his career.
Before that:
Petibon was 4-12
Gibbs 124-60 (.674)
What am I missing?
I was going by something that was said on the NFL Network a while ago, and for some reason NBC just showed something similar -- they listed Norv at 7-6 (his final season with the team) instead of 49-59-1 (his whole tenure with the team).So by whatever goofy accounting those networks were using, Norv was the only Redskins coach out of the last six (or seven, I guess, if you count Robiskie) with a winning record.
It's obviously not true with more straightforward accounting.
Norv does hold the distinction, however, of being the only post-merger coach to be fired during the season with a winning record.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Given how strong the Chargers look right now, and how many of the great coaches of recent years are not coaching at the moment (Shanny, Cowher, Gruden, Dungy, etc.), Turner could very well be a Super Bowl winning coach in the next six weeks. It wouldn't surprise me at this point. That is how good this Chargers team is right now.Tanner9919
Footballguy
you watch football much ?
Islander
Footballguy
Given how competitive the NFL is, and how small coaching mistakes can easily make you go from 10-6 to 6-10, you have to be freaking out of your mind to think that the worse coach of modern era can get a first round bye, even with a good team.
Put a top 10 bad coach at the helm in February 2009, and the Chargers would not be better than 8-7 by now. And I am being conservative.
I could be convinced that Norv is below average. But he's probably not even top 50 worst of those that ever coached in the NFL in the last 30 years.
Put a top 10 bad coach at the helm in February 2009, and the Chargers would not be better than 8-7 by now. And I am being conservative.
I could be convinced that Norv is below average. But he's probably not even top 50 worst of those that ever coached in the NFL in the last 30 years.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Great job firing Schottenheimer because "he can't win in the playoffs" to replace him with Norv Turner.
Polar Dude
Footballguy
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Second this.
SSOG
Moderator
Polar Dude
Footballguy
It was Marlon McCree. Cromartie was still at FSU.Even ignoring that, you got the sequence right, but not the causation.
CalBear
Footballguy
And the year before, lost due to a Keading missed field goal against the Jets.Turner sucks. Vincent Jackson kicking the challenge flag is a typical move for a Turner-coached team; no clue and no discipline.
Polar Dude
Footballguy
This same crap happened when Turner wasn't even with the team. It's more of a Chargers thing than a Norv thing.
SSOG
Moderator
While the reason given for Schotty's firing might be the Kurt Schottenheimer situation, I strongly suspect that if he had made the AFCCG, Smith wouldn't have been able to fire him. As a result, the playoff loss might not have been the proximate cause of the firing, but it was the ultimate cause.
Tau837
Footballguy
Great job firing Schottenheimer because "he can't win in the playoffs" to replace him with Norv Turner.
Exactly. Norv has 3 wins as Chargers head coach. Marty had none. I agree with you 100%.
Tau837
Footballguy
Actually, it was two years before. The Chargers missed the playoffs in 2005. Turner's record with the Chargers is 32-16 in the regular season and 3-3 in the playoffs. You have a strange definition of "sucks" for a head coach.
Tau837
Footballguy
So? Even if true, I thought it was the right move. And the results to date have justified that.
Polar Dude
Footballguy
Had the Chargers made the AFCCG, the Chargers may not have lost both their coordinators to (then-struggling) franchises because those guys would have been off the table for at least another week. If the Chargers still have one or both of their coordinators, Schotty is no position to begin sabotaging the team by green-lighting every other coach to interview for lateral positions on other teams. If he doesn't do that, there is no reason to fire him (other than the fact that he was simply being difficult to get along with) and probably retains his job.So yes, you are probably correct, but probably not for the reasons you thought you were.
CalBear
Footballguy
32-16 and 3-3 isn't very impressive when you're taking over a 14-2 team. This team would be better if they kept Schottenheimer.
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