Isaiah Crowell (1 Viewer)

[need2know]

I understand that crowell is the most talented back out of the three but this seems like wests job if he outproduces tate again. At least for this season.

Prob past time to dump crowell

 

[Van Dyman]

West had team highs with 15 carries and 48 yards for a modest 3.2 average. Tate was held to 3 yards on 10 carries (0.3), and Crowell didn’t get an offensive snap.

“He had a very good week of practice, and I thought he responded,” Pettine said of West. “He ran tough. There were some plays that were blocked for 1 or 2 where he gained 5 or 6.

“When you looked at the tape and really compared the three we feel he’s really coming on. Looks very explosive in practice, and there were times out there game-wise, too.”

West’s longest carry was a 10-yarder, but his most important was a 2-yarder over right guard on fourth-and-1 at the 4-yard line. After West failed in short yardage in Jacksonville, it was significant that the coaches trusted him in this spot.

“I learned from my mistakes,” he said. “I was just trying to do too much. In the league, just gotta take what the defense gives you.

“I learned from that, it made me go straight downhill. Every yard counts.”

Two plays later West caught a 2-yard touchdown pass in the right flat. His final area of contribution was in pass protection, as he made the key blitz pickup that allowed Brian Hoyer time to find Taylor Gabriel for the winning touchdown.

The clutch plays had their beginning in Berea.

“I always took practice serious, but I had to take it to another level, like I’m playing in a game in practice,” West said. “They like what they’ve seen since I’ve been inactive. I learned from it, just move forward.”

For the year, West has 81 carries for 302 yards, a 3.7 average and two touchdowns.

NO CROW

Pettine said Monday that Crowell’s lack of playing time isn’t for disciplinary reasons.

“The kid’s in good standing with the team,” he said on a conference call.

Crowell got one carry and three offensive snaps against Oakland, then none Sunday. He leads the team with a 4.9 average and four touchdowns, totaling 256 yards on 52 carries.

Pettine said Crowell’s lost fumble and two dropped pitches against Pittsburgh on Oct. 12 aren’t the reason he’s not getting the ball.

“That’s not being held over his head, but it was a staff decision,” Pettine said. “We evaluate everything from A to Z — how they’re practicing, just a lot of factors that go into their play. I don’t want to get into projecting forward, but we assess each week who gives us the best chance to be successful and that’s who we roll with.”

Source: http://medinagazette.northcoastnow.com/2014/11/04/browns-notes-rookie-rb-terrance-west-rebounded-rough-stretch-practicing-hard-running-straight-ahead/

The big thing here may be "we assess each week who gives us the best chance to be successful and that’s who we roll with." Before they had said they were looking for one back to separate himself. Here, it's almost the opposite. Any given week they'll go with whoever looked best in practice. Coaches drive me nuts.

 

[mnmplayer]

all this talk about ypc seems to be overlooking one key piece to the puzzle:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000421377/Gabriel-34-yard-touchdown-catch

Pass blocking is kinda important. Gordon is coming back soon.

 

[msudaisy26]

So he is a good buy low for dynasty?

 

[Cheesedawg]

So he is a good buy low for dynasty?

Definitely!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

all this talk about ypc seems to be overlooking one key piece to the puzzle:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000421377/Gabriel-34-yard-touchdown-catch

Pass blocking is kinda important. Gordon is coming back soon.

Yeah, again (again) it's sad what's happened after Mack because that run game was grooving.

But I don't remember Gordon opening things up too much for the run game last year...

 

[just_want_2_win]

all this talk about ypc seems to be overlooking one key piece to the puzzle:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000421377/Gabriel-34-yard-touchdown-catch

Pass blocking is kinda important. Gordon is coming back soon.

Yeah, again (again) it's sad what's happened after Mack because that run game was grooving.

But I don't remember Gordon opening things up too much for the run game last year...

Good post. I was coming here to post this, which dovetails nicely with what you just said:

The Browns offense just hasn't run the ball well, especially since the injury to center Alex Mack. In the three games Cleveland has played since the team's victory over Pittsburgh, they've watched their rush offense drop from the 7th-ranked one to the 25th-best one in the NFL. It's why you can't expect the world from West even if he keeps seeing the highest number of touches in the Browns offense, despite the great schedule.

http://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/3591/15-fantasy-football-transactions-for-week-10

 

[mnmplayer]

The point of the link was to show the importance of a pass blocking RB in keeping the QB upright long enough to throw TD passes. I can tell you West is going to receive kudos during the film breakdowns this week because without that block I don't think CLE wins that game, also probably saved Hoyer from going on IR. I don't own any CLE RB, but I want the QB upright long enough for Gordon to receive TD passes, so I want the best pass blocking RB in there, even if he gives up marginal YPC. I think the coaches would agree when they say ... and I am paraphrasing, "It's important for the RB position to do the other things without the ball well."

 

[oddsbodkins]

Finally dropped him once waivers ran overnight. It's like a 500lb weight has been lifted.

 

[Bronco Billy]

A guy can fumble his way onto the bench and out of the league. Every coach knows the correlation between turnover ratio and winning percentage. And the fumbling, work ethic, and off field issues were at the top of the list for weaknesses in Crowell's scouting report. This is not a surprise.

 

[Godsbrother]

Finally dropped him once waivers ran overnight. It's like a 500lb weight has been lifted.

I would but he is a keeper if I hold onto him all season. I'm just going to wait and see what he does but I do not have high expectations.

 

[Ojaays]

A guy can fumble his way onto the bench and out of the league. Every coach knows the correlation between turnover ratio and winning percentage. And the fumbling, work ethic, and off field issues were at the top of the list for weaknesses in Crowell's scouting report. This is not a surprise.

Demarco Murray has fumbled 5 times this year, he's also carried the Cowboys to their best record to start a season in some time.

 

[saintfool]

A guy can fumble his way onto the bench and out of the league. Every coach knows the correlation between turnover ratio and winning percentage. And the fumbling, work ethic, and off field issues were at the top of the list for weaknesses in Crowell's scouting report. This is not a surprise.

Demarco Murray has fumbled 5 times this year, he's also carried the Cowboys to their best record to start a season in some time.

"apples? meet oranges."

 

[Bronco Billy]

A guy can fumble his way onto the bench and out of the league. Every coach knows the correlation between turnover ratio and winning percentage. And the fumbling, work ethic, and off field issues were at the top of the list for weaknesses in Crowell's scouting report. This is not a surprise.

Demarco Murray has fumbled 5 times this year, he's also carried the Cowboys to their best record to start a season in some time.

Are you arguing that Crowell is as talented as Murray? Transcendent talent gets a lot more leeway..

 

[Insein]

Dropped him for West.

 

[Van Dyman]

This is interesting, from the Browns website:

4) Browns running game vs. Bengals linebackers

Vontaze Burfict is out (knee surgery) and Ray Maulauga (hamstring) has not practiced this week for Cincinnati. The Bengals are happy with third-year linebacker Emmanuel Lamur (49 tackles, 2 interceptions) but Cincinnati ranks 30th in the NFL in stopping the run. The Bengals may be forced to start Nico Johnson, who was claimed off Kansas City’s practice squad, at middle linebacker. There’s reason to believe that Cleveland’s offensive line can raise their performance and they can run the ball like they did in September. Also, watch for Isaiah Crowell to earn more carries this week. It’s just a hunch, but the undrafted rookie might ignite the stagnant rushing attack.

Anyone jumping back onboard?

 

[need2know]

This is interesting, from the Browns website:

4) Browns running game vs. Bengals linebackers

Vontaze Burfict is out (knee surgery) and Ray Maulauga (hamstring) has not practiced this week for Cincinnati. The Bengals are happy with third-year linebacker Emmanuel Lamur (49 tackles, 2 interceptions) but Cincinnati ranks 30th in the NFL in stopping the run. The Bengals may be forced to start Nico Johnson, who was claimed off Kansas City’s practice squad, at middle linebacker. There’s reason to believe that Cleveland’s offensive line can raise their performance and they can run the ball like they did in September. Also, watch for Isaiah Crowell to earn more carries this week. It’s just a hunch, but the undrafted rookie might ignite the stagnant rushing attack.

Anyone jumping back onboard?

Nope. Sold my stock. I think all the Browns rbs are crap from here on out

 

[munygon2]

This is interesting, from the Browns website:

4) Browns running game vs. Bengals linebackers

Vontaze Burfict is out (knee surgery) and Ray Maulauga (hamstring) has not practiced this week for Cincinnati. The Bengals are happy with third-year linebacker Emmanuel Lamur (49 tackles, 2 interceptions) but Cincinnati ranks 30th in the NFL in stopping the run. The Bengals may be forced to start Nico Johnson, who was claimed off Kansas City’s practice squad, at middle linebacker. There’s reason to believe that Cleveland’s offensive line can raise their performance and they can run the ball like they did in September. Also, watch for Isaiah Crowell to earn more carries this week. It’s just a hunch, but the undrafted rookie might ignite the stagnant rushing attack.

Anyone jumping back onboard?

I'm keeping him rostered at least another week to see what happens. You never know.

 

[urbanhack]

This is interesting, from the Browns website:

4) Browns running game vs. Bengals linebackers

Vontaze Burfict is out (knee surgery) and Ray Maulauga (hamstring) has not practiced this week for Cincinnati. The Bengals are happy with third-year linebacker Emmanuel Lamur (49 tackles, 2 interceptions) but Cincinnati ranks 30th in the NFL in stopping the run. The Bengals may be forced to start Nico Johnson, who was claimed off Kansas City’s practice squad, at middle linebacker. There’s reason to believe that Cleveland’s offensive line can raise their performance and they can run the ball like they did in September. Also, watch for Isaiah Crowell to earn more carries this week. It’s just a hunch, but the undrafted rookie might ignite the stagnant rushing attack.

Anyone jumping back onboard?

Maybe a FanDuel flier.

 

[TartanLion]

I have owned all three this season and it has become a complete crap shoot as to which will do what on any given week, not to mention the fact the running game has regressed overall.

There was rumours of West going into the match last week but tbh Tate started for the Browns and split drives with West the entire first half making the issue cloudier - no idea who they will start with each week and will just give the small majority of carries to whoever starts better.

I want to take advantage of the matchup this week because I have a weak RB crew but I'm ####ed if I know how anybody can pick an RB with any sort of certainty unless something definitive comes out.

 

[shady inc]

doesn't matter who is running.. once mack the center went down, it was over

 

[Van Dyman]

doesn't matter who is running.. once mack the center went down, it was over

Wrong. RB1 potential disappeared when Mack went down, but RB2/flex potential is still there.

 

[ImTheScientist]

This is interesting, from the Browns website:

4) Browns running game vs. Bengals linebackers

Vontaze Burfict is out (knee surgery) and Ray Maulauga (hamstring) has not practiced this week for Cincinnati. The Bengals are happy with third-year linebacker Emmanuel Lamur (49 tackles, 2 interceptions) but Cincinnati ranks 30th in the NFL in stopping the run. The Bengals may be forced to start Nico Johnson, who was claimed off Kansas City’s practice squad, at middle linebacker. There’s reason to believe that Cleveland’s offensive line can raise their performance and they can run the ball like they did in September. Also, watch for Isaiah Crowell to earn more carries this week. It’s just a hunch, but the undrafted rookie might ignite the stagnant rushing attack.

Anyone jumping back onboard?

Nope. Sold my stock. I think all the Browns rbs are crap from here on out

Sold low....interesting.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

This is a popular take, that C Alex Mack is the reason for the lack of a running game and to a large extent that is true but Ben Tate has averaged 1.59 yards per carry over the past three weeks and he was essentially replaced by rookie RB Terrance West Sunday against Tampa Bay.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/49782/179/matchup-browns--bengals

Missing C Alex Mack dearly and beginning to look slow and plodding, Ben Tate has managed 65 yards on 41 runs (1.59 YPC) the past three weeks. OC Kyle Shanahan went away from Tate as last week's game against Tampa Bay progressed, increasing rookie Terrance West's usage. Tate wound up playing 30 snaps and handling 14 touches. West played 37 downs and touched the ball 16 times. After playing just three snaps in Week 8, Isaiah Crowell didn't see the field against the Buccaneers. Considering the struggles of Tate and West -- they combined for 51 yards on 25 carries last Sunday -- it wouldn't be surprising to see Crowell mix in more on Thursday night. Even against a Bengals team that ranks 30th against the run, is missing WLB Vontaze Burfict (knee scope), and allows 4.81 yards per carry to opposing running backs, you're on your own starting members of Cleveland's backfield. The entire run-game unit is stuck in mud post-Mack, and there is little or no workload clarity. ...

The Browns rushing attack was so dominating over the first couple of games with Mack that it is possible that all of the woes are the result of his absence but I think its a combination of his absence and opposing defenses figuring out some of Kyle Shanahan's blocking schemes because they are crashing the DEs and loading the box and selling out to stuff the run and leaving QB Brian Hoyer to try and beat them and if you look at Hoyer's ridiculously high average per completion on a low completion rate he is burning teams with deep passes.

Its not puzzling that teams would sell out to stop the run and allow Hoyer to beat them because of the lack of stellar receiving options since the Browns are still without last year's NFL leading receiver WR Josh Gordon and with Pro Bowl TE Jordan Cameron suffering his third concussion in the last two years after he came into this season with a bum shoulder that he re-injured in the first game. Jordan is very doubtful for Thursday night and the Browns leading receiver WR Andrew Hawkins has missed practice and was also uncertain for the game leaving undrafted rookie free agent WR Taylor Gabriel to pick up the slack.

Basically to lay everything soley on the injury to Alex Mack is not entirely true. His injury is a huge part of the rushing problems but its a combination of a few things added to not having Mack but I do feel that Isaiah Crowell will get another shot and since the bar is set so low, less than 1.6 yards per carry for Tate, I think he will fare better running the ball but the coaches probably want someone who can pick up the blitz like West, see his vicious block on LB Davante David, due to the sad state of the offensive line and heavy hits that Hoyer has had to deal with since the loss of Mack, and the other issue with Crow is ball security. He's got to clean that up and be better picking up the blitz because he is a better runner than Tate but Ben has shown he's the best receiver of the backs and he's also good in pass-pro as is T-West.

No doubt Crow is a talented runner but the other things are probably why he's getting his shot right now but its-a-coming soon. Once WR Josh Gordon is back it will open up the offense and TE Jordan Cameron will also be back to prevent defenses from stacking the box. They will be forced to drop the safety and we'll see an 'improved' rushing attack.

 

[Cheesedawg]

John Hansen ‏@Fantasy_Guru 3m3 minutes ago

Talking to @ScottPetrak today, Brown RB situation is fluid right now. West standing out among the three and could get chance to be main guy.

 

[JamesTheScot]

A guy can fumble his way onto the bench and out of the league. Every coach knows the correlation between turnover ratio and winning percentage. And the fumbling, work ethic, and off field issues were at the top of the list for weaknesses in Crowell's scouting report. This is not a surprise.

Demarco Murray has fumbled 5 times this year, he's also carried the Cowboys to their best record to start a season in some time.

Are you arguing that Crowell is as talented as Murray? Transcendent talent gets a lot more leeway..

What was the scouting report on Murray coming into the league?

The fact that a guy like Murray can outperform what many expected of him should cause one to withhold a bit of judgement about a young player who was considered physically gifted but had some off-field baggage coming into the league. At least it would with me.

People act now as if Murray is this uber-stud with obvious top-10 talent. It's like almost no one remembers how people used to bang on him and pick apart his running style. There were people who thought Felix Jones would take back touches once he got healthy because Murray wasn't special. There were people who thought Dunbar and Randle were going to steal touches when they arrived. But now everyone is on the bandwagon, polishing the pedestal for him to stand on and acting like he's a transcendent talent.

I like Murray. I thought he was more talented than he was getting credit for early on but the pendulum has swung too far.

I mean, if we recognize that the Dallas o-line is the major reason Murray is having more success this year compared to years past, and that it took an injury to Felix Jones for him to get his shot, wouldn't it be a bit reckless to dig in on who is more talented (as opposed to more experienced) when the other RB is a rookie playing behind a struggling o-line and competing for touches in a 3-way split?

Hindsight and a short memory span are a dangerous combination.

 

[JamesTheScot]

West had team highs with 15 carries and 48 yards for a modest 3.2 average. Tate was held to 3 yards on 10 carries (0.3), and Crowell didn’t get an offensive snap.

“He had a very good week of practice, and I thought he responded,” Pettine said of West. “He ran tough. There were some plays that were blocked for 1 or 2 where he gained 5 or 6.

“When you looked at the tape and really compared the three we feel he’s really coming on. Looks very explosive in practice, and there were times out there game-wise, too.”

West’s longest carry was a 10-yarder, but his most important was a 2-yarder over right guard on fourth-and-1 at the 4-yard line. After West failed in short yardage in Jacksonville, it was significant that the coaches trusted him in this spot.

“I learned from my mistakes,” he said. “I was just trying to do too much. In the league, just gotta take what the defense gives you.

“I learned from that, it made me go straight downhill. Every yard counts.”

Two plays later West caught a 2-yard touchdown pass in the right flat. His final area of contribution was in pass protection, as he made the key blitz pickup that allowed Brian Hoyer time to find Taylor Gabriel for the winning touchdown.

The clutch plays had their beginning in Berea.

“I always took practice serious, but I had to take it to another level, like I’m playing in a game in practice,” West said. “They like what they’ve seen since I’ve been inactive. I learned from it, just move forward.”

For the year, West has 81 carries for 302 yards, a 3.7 average and two touchdowns.

NO CROW

Pettine said Monday that Crowell’s lack of playing time isn’t for disciplinary reasons.

“The kid’s in good standing with the team,” he said on a conference call.

Crowell got one carry and three offensive snaps against Oakland, then none Sunday. He leads the team with a 4.9 average and four touchdowns, totaling 256 yards on 52 carries.

Pettine said Crowell’s lost fumble and two dropped pitches against Pittsburgh on Oct. 12 aren’t the reason he’s not getting the ball.

“That’s not being held over his head, but it was a staff decision,” Pettine said. “We evaluate everything from A to Z — how they’re practicing, just a lot of factors that go into their play. I don’t want to get into projecting forward, but we assess each week who gives us the best chance to be successful and that’s who we roll with.”

Source: http://medinagazette.northcoastnow.com/2014/11/04/browns-notes-rookie-rb-terrance-west-rebounded-rough-stretch-practicing-hard-running-straight-ahead/

The big thing here may be "we assess each week who gives us the best chance to be successful and that’s who we roll with." Before they had said they were looking for one back to separate himself. Here, it's almost the opposite. Any given week they'll go with whoever looked best in practice. Coaches drive me nuts.

Think about how the part in the red really doesn't make much sense.

When Crowell doesn't get a snap, how much tape is there to compare?

Practice? Maybe that means something. So is Crowell fumbling in practice? Because if West can't punch it in on short yardage in the game but yet the coaches trust him enough to try again next week, is it because he was punching it in the practices in between?

If so, is there a reason they won't give Crowell a second chance as well?

To me, it just starts to look like mind games from the staff and these non-sensical blurbs in the press are their way of avoiding an admission of that.

Is Pettine the new Skelator? Cue the weekly "last week was just a ploy to motivate _____________" threads.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

What was the scouting report on Murray coming into the league?

The fact that a guy like Murray can outperform what many expected of him should cause one to withhold a bit of judgement about a young player who was considered physically gifted but had some off-field baggage coming into the league. At least it would with me.

People act now as if Murray is this uber-stud with obvious top-10 talent. It's like almost no one remembers how people used to bang on him and pick apart his running style. There were people who thought Felix Jones would take back touches once he got healthy because Murray wasn't special. There were people who thought Dunbar and Randle were going to steal touches when they arrived. But now everyone is on the bandwagon, polishing the pedestal for him to stand on and acting like he's a transcendent talent.

I like Murray. I thought he was more talented than he was getting credit for early on but the pendulum has swung too far.

I mean, if we recognize that the Dallas o-line is the major reason Murray is having more success this year compared to years past, and that it took an injury to Felix Jones for him to get his shot, wouldn't it be a bit reckless to dig in on who is more talented (as opposed to more experienced) when the other RB is a rookie playing behind a struggling o-line and competing for touches in a 3-way split?

Hindsight and a short memory span are a dangerous combination.

The pendulum hasn't swung too far on DeMarco Murray IMHO and some were touting his abilities before he made his NFL debut and got beat up for that stance.

Are ya serious that the only reason he got a chance is from an injury to Felix Jones?

Wow. Thought that train of thought got buried years ago.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=607333&hl=+smathers +demarco

Demarco MurrayStarted by Bracie Smathers, Aug 28 2011 11:05 AM

Posted 28 August 2011 - 11:05 AM

Did a search and their isn't a thread devoted just to him...

Starting out with an NFL record eight straight 100 yard rushing games and was on pace to set the all-time NFL single season rushing record when the league has decidedly shifted to a pass dominated RBBC league is highly impressive.

He is the best RB in the NFL today and a legit candidate for league Offensive Player of the Year if not league MVP if the Boys make the post season and do some damage.

 

[mnmplayer]

A guy can fumble his way onto the bench and out of the league. Every coach knows the correlation between turnover ratio and winning percentage. And the fumbling, work ethic, and off field issues were at the top of the list for weaknesses in Crowell's scouting report. This is not a surprise.

Demarco Murray has fumbled 5 times this year, he's also carried the Cowboys to their best record to start a season in some time.

Are you arguing that Crowell is as talented as Murray? Transcendent talent gets a lot more leeway..

What was the scouting report on Murray coming into the league?

The fact that a guy like Murray can outperform what many expected of him should cause one to withhold a bit of judgement about a young player who was considered physically gifted but had some off-field baggage coming into the league. At least it would with me.

People act now as if Murray is this uber-stud with obvious top-10 talent. It's like almost no one remembers how people used to bang on him and pick apart his running style. There were people who thought Felix Jones would take back touches once he got healthy because Murray wasn't special. There were people who thought Dunbar and Randle were going to steal touches when they arrived. But now everyone is on the bandwagon, polishing the pedestal for him to stand on and acting like he's a transcendent talent.

I like Murray. I thought he was more talented than he was getting credit for early on but the pendulum has swung too far.

I mean, if we recognize that the Dallas o-line is the major reason Murray is having more success this year compared to years past, and that it took an injury to Felix Jones for him to get his shot, wouldn't it be a bit reckless to dig in on who is more talented (as opposed to more experienced) when the other RB is a rookie playing behind a struggling o-line and competing for touches in a 3-way split?

Hindsight and a short memory span are a dangerous combination.

Live in the past much? Murray does have a great line, but at one point this season he had the most yards after contact as well as having 4.4 speed. Also he wasn't handed the job just for showing up. He has quite a few records in the bag as well for such a young guy. If he can last 16 games this year he will shed the fragile tag as well. Who would you rather have? Crow?

ETA: Also has soft hands and is a good receiver out of the backfield.

 

[DaWidowMaker]

My opinion is this...The Browns are doing they're due diligence on all of their RB's. West has NOT been impressive as evidence from Sundays stat line. Yeah they may talk a good game stating "West is doing fine"...but what about Sunday's game strikes out to YOU (not to mention the coaching staff) that shows West is head and shoulders above everyone else? Not a got&amn thing...This is an audition for the future and Crowell will get his chance as soon as this week, to definitely show he is the most talented back. What he will do with it..who knows but I would hold if i were you. Yes i am a Crowell owner so take that as you will.

 

[mnmplayer]

The won the game on a key block from West? that stood out to everyone who saw the game.

 

[BigBlue_RI]

Crowell just dropped in my league, we have deep benches and my RB situation is muddied further with the AP situation as I own McKinnon. Might be worth a flier, but for some reason he won't clear waivers until after the game tomorrow.

 

[Bronco Billy]

A guy can fumble his way onto the bench and out of the league. Every coach knows the correlation between turnover ratio and winning percentage. And the fumbling, work ethic, and off field issues were at the top of the list for weaknesses in Crowell's scouting report. This is not a surprise.

Demarco Murray has fumbled 5 times this year, he's also carried the Cowboys to their best record to start a season in some time.

Are you arguing that Crowell is as talented as Murray? Transcendent talent gets a lot more leeway..

What was the scouting report on Murray coming into the league?

The fact that a guy like Murray can outperform what many expected of him should cause one to withhold a bit of judgement about a young player who was considered physically gifted but had some off-field baggage coming into the league. At least it would with me.

People act now as if Murray is this uber-stud with obvious top-10 talent. It's like almost no one remembers how people used to bang on him and pick apart his running style. There were people who thought Felix Jones would take back touches once he got healthy because Murray wasn't special. There were people who thought Dunbar and Randle were going to steal touches when they arrived. But now everyone is on the bandwagon, polishing the pedestal for him to stand on and acting like he's a transcendent talent.

I like Murray. I thought he was more talented than he was getting credit for early on but the pendulum has swung too far.

I mean, if we recognize that the Dallas o-line is the major reason Murray is having more success this year compared to years past, and that it took an injury to Felix Jones for him to get his shot, wouldn't it be a bit reckless to dig in on who is more talented (as opposed to more experienced) when the other RB is a rookie playing behind a struggling o-line and competing for touches in a 3-way split?

Hindsight and a short memory span are a dangerous combination.

So you do think Crowell has talent comparable to Murray.

Well, good luck to you. I don't see the point in any further discussion.

 

[Rimez]

A guy can fumble his way onto the bench and out of the league. Every coach knows the correlation between turnover ratio and winning percentage. And the fumbling, work ethic, and off field issues were at the top of the list for weaknesses in Crowell's scouting report. This is not a surprise.

Demarco Murray has fumbled 5 times this year, he's also carried the Cowboys to their best record to start a season in some time.

Are you arguing that Crowell is as talented as Murray? Transcendent talent gets a lot more leeway..

What was the scouting report on Murray coming into the league?

The fact that a guy like Murray can outperform what many expected of him should cause one to withhold a bit of judgement about a young player who was considered physically gifted but had some off-field baggage coming into the league. At least it would with me.

People act now as if Murray is this uber-stud with obvious top-10 talent. It's like almost no one remembers how people used to bang on him and pick apart his running style. There were people who thought Felix Jones would take back touches once he got healthy because Murray wasn't special. There were people who thought Dunbar and Randle were going to steal touches when they arrived. But now everyone is on the bandwagon, polishing the pedestal for him to stand on and acting like he's a transcendent talent.

I like Murray. I thought he was more talented than he was getting credit for early on but the pendulum has swung too far.

I mean, if we recognize that the Dallas o-line is the major reason Murray is having more success this year compared to years past, and that it took an injury to Felix Jones for him to get his shot, wouldn't it be a bit reckless to dig in on who is more talented (as opposed to more experienced) when the other RB is a rookie playing behind a struggling o-line and competing for touches in a 3-way split?

Hindsight and a short memory span are a dangerous combination.

murray broke onto the scene with 200 yard games, runs a 4.4, catches everything, has a nasty spin move, and took the starting job the second he got his chance. crowell runs a 4.6 with brick hands and average agility, hasnt had a meaningful carry in almost a month, and tore up the steelers twice the same defense that made bernard pierce and doug martin look like world beaters. his last game he went 7 for 18 against the jaguars. if they played the steelers 4 more times this season then yes crowell would be worth stashing, but a demarco murray he is not.

 

[JamesTheScot]

A guy can fumble his way onto the bench and out of the league. Every coach knows the correlation between turnover ratio and winning percentage. And the fumbling, work ethic, and off field issues were at the top of the list for weaknesses in Crowell's scouting report. This is not a surprise.

Demarco Murray has fumbled 5 times this year, he's also carried the Cowboys to their best record to start a season in some time.

Are you arguing that Crowell is as talented as Murray? Transcendent talent gets a lot more leeway..

What was the scouting report on Murray coming into the league?

The fact that a guy like Murray can outperform what many expected of him should cause one to withhold a bit of judgement about a young player who was considered physically gifted but had some off-field baggage coming into the league. At least it would with me.

People act now as if Murray is this uber-stud with obvious top-10 talent. It's like almost no one remembers how people used to bang on him and pick apart his running style. There were people who thought Felix Jones would take back touches once he got healthy because Murray wasn't special. There were people who thought Dunbar and Randle were going to steal touches when they arrived. But now everyone is on the bandwagon, polishing the pedestal for him to stand on and acting like he's a transcendent talent.

I like Murray. I thought he was more talented than he was getting credit for early on but the pendulum has swung too far.

I mean, if we recognize that the Dallas o-line is the major reason Murray is having more success this year compared to years past, and that it took an injury to Felix Jones for him to get his shot, wouldn't it be a bit reckless to dig in on who is more talented (as opposed to more experienced) when the other RB is a rookie playing behind a struggling o-line and competing for touches in a 3-way split?

Hindsight and a short memory span are a dangerous combination.

So you do think Crowell has talent comparable to Murray.

Well, good luck to you. I don't see the point in any further discussion.

I think comparing talent isn't worth a whole lot at this point given how young Crowell is and how experienced Murray is. What you are seeing on the field from Murray at this point in his career isn't just talent. It's maturity and experience as well. So where does Murray's talent end and his maturity and experience begin?

As a rookie, Murray was known for his long speed and receiving. But he was criticized for his ball security, upright running style, questionable vision and lack of wiggle in the hole. He was also criticized for inability to to makes gains after contact. He was a 3rd rounder who some thought was no better than the likes of Dion Lewis, Kendall Hunter and Taiwan Jones.

Sound like the same guy on his way to 2000 yards this season?

Crowell was noted for his strength, pad level, vision and intuition. While he lacks the long speed that Murray has, he does have good short area burst. IMHO, if there's one quality a stud NFL RB can afford to be missing, it's elite long speed. As for his hands, I never saw that they are bad. If you read the reports, they note a lack of production as a receiver, not a lack of ability. So that's more a question of utilization than a conclusion that he can't catch. He didn't catch poorly that I saw at the combine, at least not for a RB. One source actually noted soft hands for him at the combine.

The irony is that Bleacher Report had Murray as the comparable for Crowell. I think there's some truth to that in terms of the aggressive style that both show. While Murray is faster in the 40 and is a proven, accomplished receiver, how good Crowell can be is still a mystery because he was a bit of an enigma in college. He did seem to be holding back. Couple that with his off0field issues when a freshman at Georgia, I can see why he would slide.

So that's my point. We throw around the term talent just because someone is producing when it's obvious that a tremendous amount of his success this season is the result of an o-line that is mauling their opponents.

And don't forget that it took Felix Jones getting hurt, not Murray's play on the practice field or in games, to get his shot. Everyone remembers the 200 yard game, but they forget about his 3.0 ypc average up until that week and how he wasn't pushing Felix Jones for the job.

So it's definitely a case of revisionist history with Murray.

So why someone thinks they can make a firm conclusion about Crowell when he's still a rookie with limited touches is beyond me. I guess "not sure yet" doesn't make exciting enough conversation so people need to throw out nonsense like "hands of stone" or point to the one or two games' usage which seem to support their point while ignoring the rest. I don't know. It's the shark pool. Maybe it's my expectations which need adjusting.

 

[Football Jones]

Crowell isn't your typical undrafted FA. This kid has outstanding raw talent & has shown none of the immaturity issues that caused him to go undrafted. When you combine his talent with that OL (when healthy, of course), you're looking at one of the best FF prospects in the NFL.

That said, this has to play out. They signed Tate to be their starter & drafted West in the 3rd. It's only a matter of time, though. Crow is probably the best dynasty stash in all of FF right now.

 

[Cheesedawg]

Crowell isn't your typical undrafted FA. This kid has outstanding raw talent & has shown none of the immaturity issues that caused him to go undrafted. When you combine his talent with that OL (when healthy, of course), you're looking at one of the best FF prospects in the NFL.

That said, this has to play out. They signed Tate to be their starter & drafted West in the 3rd. It's only a matter of time, though. Crow is probably the best dynasty stash in all of FF right now.

I have followed Crowell since he was being recruited out of HS and I drafted him this year and have held him all season. I disagree with your final conclusion. He has a good ceiling, which is why I continue to hold him in my keeper league, but he is still a sketchy prospect for the same reasons that had him go undrafted and have kept him on the bench. Ball security concerns, character concerns, fragility concerns...there are lots of things which could cause Crowell to not pan out. In fact, I'd say the odds are against him.

All that said, I'd be shocked if he didn't get a shot to carry the ball 20 times in a game this year. The Browns will undoubtedly try to find out what they have and, if they weren't significantly intrigued they wouldn't be carrying him on the active roster all season despite his inability to help on special teams. I drafted him because the Browns kept him on the main roster instead of floating him to the practice squad, which told me they will eventually give him a chance. I think they are coaching him up during the week because he is a raw, very inexperienced RB, trying to get him ready for his shot. Stay tuned.

 

[ghostguy123]

As a Browns fan, I want nothing more than to see the job handed to Crowell and watch him run with it. He is our best RB. Give him the rock and let's roll.

Problem is, it wont happen for a multitude of reasons (at least not in the next few games barring injury anyway).

 

[jurb26]

WTF is going on here. Have people really forgotten how good Murray was in college. I remember going back and forth on this board with people about how he was a stud and one of the best RBs to come out of college in a while. Then, he had several bad knee injuries and things cooled on him considerably. There was a fear, I mistakenly shared it, that he would never be the same post injury. That he had lost his burst, wiggle and agility. How we are comparing him and Crowell from a talent standpoint is beyond me. Crowell was never in the same realm as Murray. Murray dropped in the draft because of these injury concerns. Here's a major difference though, he was still drafted. In the 3rd round no less. Crowell wasn't drafted at all. So, fine you want to say Crowell fell because of character concers. I'm on board with that to an extent. However, I'm in no way on board with it being the reason he wasn't drafted at all. There are plenty of examples of players with character concerns, many worse than Crowell, that still get drafted. Hell, one such player was drafted at his same position this year.

 

[Ojaays]

I was never comparing Crowell with Murray

Only pointing out good RB s fumble too but you still play them.

That is all

 

[cjv123]

4) Browns running game vs. Bengals linebackers

Vontaze Burfict is out (knee surgery) and Ray Maulauga (hamstring) has not practiced this week for Cincinnati. The Bengals are happy with third-year linebacker Emmanuel Lamur (49 tackles, 2 interceptions) but Cincinnati ranks 30th in the NFL in stopping the run. The Bengals may be forced to start Nico Johnson, who was claimed off Kansas City’s practice squad, at middle linebacker. There’s reason to believe that Cleveland’s offensive line can raise their performance and they can run the ball like they did in September. Also, watch for Isaiah Crowell to earn more carries this week. It’s just a hunch, but the undrafted rookie might ignite the stagnant rushing attack.
Mack was playing in September (pls see the highlight from last week of Gerald McCoy pushing the CLE center 5 yards backwards with one hand) and Vincent Rey is CLE's starting MLB.

 

[Peak]

4) Browns running game vs. Bengals linebackers

Vontaze Burfict is out (knee surgery) and Ray Maulauga (hamstring) has not practiced this week for Cincinnati. The Bengals are happy with third-year linebacker Emmanuel Lamur (49 tackles, 2 interceptions) but Cincinnati ranks 30th in the NFL in stopping the run. The Bengals may be forced to start Nico Johnson, who was claimed off Kansas City’s practice squad, at middle linebacker. There’s reason to believe that Cleveland’s offensive line can raise their performance and they can run the ball like they did in September. Also, watch for Isaiah Crowell to earn more carries this week. It’s just a hunch, but the undrafted rookie might ignite the stagnant rushing attack.
Mack was playing in September (pls see the highlight from last week of Gerald McCoy pushing the CLE center 5 yards backwards with one hand) and Vincent Rey is CLE CIN's starting MLB.

Fixed for you. I'm not sold that Crowell's talent as a runner mixes with the task at hand tonight. I could see quick screens to Tate and West to open up the run game, with Crowell pounding the ball in the 4th quarter. CIN's defense aren't all stars and they can be run on, but CLE's oline has been sieve-like the last few weeks. McDonald (CLE C) will get better with time/practice, so who knows what will happen. Should be a good game tonight.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Crowell isn't your typical undrafted FA. This kid has outstanding raw talent & has shown none of the immaturity issues that caused him to go undrafted. When you combine his talent with that OL (when healthy, of course), you're looking at one of the best FF prospects in the NFL.

That said, this has to play out. They signed Tate to be their starter & drafted West in the 3rd. It's only a matter of time, though. Crow is probably the best dynasty stash in all of FF right now.

I have followed Crowell since he was being recruited out of HS and I drafted him this year and have held him all season. I disagree with your final conclusion. He has a good ceiling, which is why I continue to hold him in my keeper league, but he is still a sketchy prospect for the same reasons that had him go undrafted and have kept him on the bench. Ball security concerns, character concerns, fragility concerns...there are lots of things which could cause Crowell to not pan out. In fact, I'd say the odds are against him.

All that said, I'd be shocked if he didn't get a shot to carry the ball 20 times in a game this year. The Browns will undoubtedly try to find out what they have and, if they weren't significantly intrigued they wouldn't be carrying him on the active roster all season despite his inability to help on special teams. I drafted him because the Browns kept him on the main roster instead of floating him to the practice squad, which told me they will eventually give him a chance. I think they are coaching him up during the week because he is a raw, very inexperienced RB, trying to get him ready for his shot. Stay tuned.

I think the fragility concerns are overblown, but they highlight the more troubling question, which is also the reason I believe he slipped so far this spring.

I think it's selfishness, not that he's fragile. I think he was protecting himself in college after he left Georgia. I think it was two fold. One, to not let minor injuries become bigger injuries which could threaten his future. And, two, to avoid putting up bad tape for scouts to review. Imagine what bad tape would cause people to conclude given the level of competition. He blows it at Georgia but knows he has NFL potential. But he also knows the bias against small school prospects because of the lack of competition argument.

But I don't give him a pass for that. It does speak to a diva attitude. "College team be damned, I'm not going to jeopardize my NFL future by risking further injury in this po-dunk minor league game." I don't think that was the right way to play it, but he might have.

So the question is whether that's just who he is and will be in the NFL, or whether that's who he was while trying to get to the NFL and now he will mature and see that 100% every day is required.

Which is why I think there is the possibility that he's being challenged a little bit these past couple of weeks to see if he steps up efforts to try and overtake Tate and West again. It's possible that West got his head out of his ### and the coaches are hoping that rewarding West will cause the light to come on for Crowell. And that doesn't mean Crowell is dogging it. But the coaches don't know exactly where his limits are. So they may be trying to find out. Which is why they are hinting around at practice effort but not actually calling him out in public. He might have gotten a bit settled in after West was inactive and they saw hints that he was getting too comfortable.

 

[Bronco Billy]

So this is all nothing but a ploy to motivate Crowell.



.

 

[JamesTheScot]

WTF is going on here. Have people really forgotten how good Murray was in college. I remember going back and forth on this board with people about how he was a stud and one of the best RBs to come out of college in a while. Then, he had several bad knee injuries and things cooled on him considerably. There was a fear, I mistakenly shared it, that he would never be the same post injury. That he had lost his burst, wiggle and agility. How we are comparing him and Crowell from a talent standpoint is beyond me. Crowell was never in the same realm as Murray. Murray dropped in the draft because of these injury concerns. Here's a major difference though, he was still drafted. In the 3rd round no less. Crowell wasn't drafted at all. So, fine you want to say Crowell fell because of character concers. I'm on board with that to an extent. However, I'm in no way on board with it being the reason he wasn't drafted at all. There are plenty of examples of players with character concerns, many worse than Crowell, that still get drafted. Hell, one such player was drafted at his same position this year.

I don't think Murray went in the 3rd just because of injury concerns. There were questions about his vision, running style and ability to run through contact. He may have fallen because he looked less impressive at times, particularly his last year in college - which would mean there were questions about his talent. But it's certainly possible that his less than impressive moments may have been due to lingering injuries rather than deficiencies in skill or talent. Wasn't that the exact question with Marquise Lee this last year? Guy looks great at times, but then not so much at others. Is that inconsistency proof of a lack of elite talent, the impact of nagging injuries or instead immaturity and lack of consistent effort?

But we don't know really. So many will hedge and let someone drop a bit. Unless you're the Raiders or Josh McDaniels.

So that's why I say there's an element of hindsight being 20/20 when it comes to Murray. He's producing, so it had to be injuries, right? But he wasn't universally considered a can't miss prospect, much like the guy in front of him, Felix Jones, who was also supposedly long on speed and receiving skill.

But you don't have the benefit of hindsight with Crowell yet. So then why the rush to pigeon hole him in a talent evaluation when his character issues so obviously muddy the water?

Crowell didn't fall from grace at Georgia due to a lack of talent. And for all we know he didn't do better at Alabama State because he thought he was too big for the program and was just biding him time until he could make a run at the NFL. If people want to bang on him for his character concerns, be my guest. But his problem hasn't been a lack of talent.

And I think being the anti-Rudy is something that coaches do not like at all. Who wants a talented guy that dogs it and will pull himself out of games, completely depriving you of his talent, when he gets a bump or bruise? We think of those guys as being soft or having no heart or loyalty. We don't really like those kind of guys, right? Crowell's ASU coaches weren't really singing his praises when he left. Remember that. I think that's what hurt him so much. He gets kicked out of Georgia and then rather than getting scared straight, he thinks he's too cool for small school. Who wants to buy that headache? But that has little to do with his talent.

 

[JamesTheScot]

So this is all nothing but a ploy to motivate Crowell.



.

Was making West inactive a ploy to motivate West?

Isn't the benching of any player who is fumbling or missing assignments a ploy to motivate them?

So, yeah, keep laughing, because coaches don't try and motivate players.

 

[DaWidowMaker]

So this is all nothing but a ploy to motivate Crowell.



.

I see what you did there with your tribute to Mr. Tatum....

 

[Soulfly3]

A little birdy told me Crowell is gonna get some "prove it" carries tonight.

Im expecting 5-10, based on that. I wont be starting him, but if he crushes those carries, may they ride him like lightening.

Again, THE best runner on my damn Browns.

 

[SameSongNDance]

A little birdy told me Crowell is gonna get some "prove it" carries tonight.

Im expecting 5-10, based on that. I wont be starting him, but if he crushes those carries, may they ride him like lightening.

Again, THE best runner on my damn Browns.

Yeah, twitter tells me things too.

 

[jurb26]

WTF is going on here. Have people really forgotten how good Murray was in college. I remember going back and forth on this board with people about how he was a stud and one of the best RBs to come out of college in a while. Then, he had several bad knee injuries and things cooled on him considerably. There was a fear, I mistakenly shared it, that he would never be the same post injury. That he had lost his burst, wiggle and agility. How we are comparing him and Crowell from a talent standpoint is beyond me. Crowell was never in the same realm as Murray. Murray dropped in the draft because of these injury concerns. Here's a major difference though, he was still drafted. In the 3rd round no less. Crowell wasn't drafted at all. So, fine you want to say Crowell fell because of character concers. I'm on board with that to an extent. However, I'm in no way on board with it being the reason he wasn't drafted at all. There are plenty of examples of players with character concerns, many worse than Crowell, that still get drafted. Hell, one such player was drafted at his same position this year.

I don't think Murray went in the 3rd just because of injury concerns. There were questions about his vision, running style and ability to run through contact. He may have fallen because he looked less impressive at times, particularly his last year in college - which would mean there were questions about his talent. But it's certainly possible that his less than impressive moments may have been due to lingering injuries rather than deficiencies in skill or talent. Wasn't that the exact question with Marquise Lee this last year? Guy looks great at times, but then not so much at others. Is that inconsistency proof of a lack of elite talent, the impact of nagging injuries or instead immaturity and lack of consistent effort?

But we don't know really. So many will hedge and let someone drop a bit. Unless you're the Raiders or Josh McDaniels.

So that's why I say there's an element of hindsight being 20/20 when it comes to Murray. He's producing, so it had to be injuries, right? But he wasn't universally considered a can't miss prospect, much like the guy in front of him, Felix Jones, who was also supposedly long on speed and receiving skill.

But you don't have the benefit of hindsight with Crowell yet. So then why the rush to pigeon hole him in a talent evaluation when his character issues so obviously muddy the water?

Crowell didn't fall from grace at Georgia due to a lack of talent. And for all we know he didn't do better at Alabama State because he thought he was too big for the program and was just biding him time until he could make a run at the NFL. If people want to bang on him for his character concerns, be my guest. But his problem hasn't been a lack of talent.

And I think being the anti-Rudy is something that coaches do not like at all. Who wants a talented guy that dogs it and will pull himself out of games, completely depriving you of his talent, when he gets a bump or bruise? We think of those guys as being soft or having no heart or loyalty. We don't really like those kind of guys, right? Crowell's ASU coaches weren't really singing his praises when he left. Remember that. I think that's what hurt him so much. He gets kicked out of Georgia and then rather than getting scared straight, he thinks he's too cool for small school. Who wants to buy that headache? But that has little to do with his talent.

We are going to have to agree to disagree here. If you go back and watch Murray as a freshman, early on in his college career I think you will see a different player. A guy with a different burst, lateral agility, explosiveness and dramatic cutting ability. I'm not sure if injuries have reduced that element of his game or it's just and alteration of his style by personal design. He has gained significant weight since then similar to a transformation Portis made in his career. Still, I think he is a different runner now vs then. On top of that there is a huge elephant in the room you still aren't addressing. Murray was drafted. Crowell was not. More often than not guys who aren't drafted do not posses the talent to be drafted, regardless of character. I'd say talent is an issue for Crowell in comparison to Murray without the benefit of hindsight. We don't need hindsight of their performance in the NFL to know one was drafted in the 3rd round despite injury concerns and the other wasn't drafted at all.