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Jake Vs. Jake (1 Viewer)

thatguy

Footballguy
So, this much anticipated (by some) Super Bowl matchup up fell by the wayside.Neither Jake played well in their respective games today, but it seems (at least to me) that Jake Plummer is taking a lot more heat from the national media than is Jake Delhomme. Plummer seems to be taking the blunt of the blame for Denver's loss. Meanwhile, it seems blame is being deflected from Delhomme and being placed on the Panther's collectively. All this, and Plummer, despite playing poorly, had a far better game than Delhomme against what most consider to be a far better defense. The story seems to go, Big Ben stepped up, Plummer choked. On the other hand, Seattle stepped up on offense and defense--they were just too much for Carolina to handle. Granted, most people here realize that Plummer was not the sole reason Denver lost, but all I'm seeing in articles from the national media is "Jake The Mistake" this and "Bad Jake" that.I realize that both players have their respective histories--that Plummer is known for making too many mistakes, that Delhomme has played extremely well historically come playoff time. However, I think most fans would agree that Plummer had a better season than did Delhomme, and recent history ought to be the most pertinent. Sorry for the rant. There is not really any point to this. Basically, it annoys me that so many writers in the national media latch onto these nicknames, which Jake picked up years ago, and throw them around as liberally as they do just to spice up their stories. It's as if all these people were waiting for Jake to mess up in a big game just so they could write their Jake implosion story again.I could be wrong in this. Maybe both Jake's are taking an equal share of the blame for their team's loss. It doesn't seem that way to me, but I am slightly biased, so who knows.Again, sorry for the rant. I'm done.Congrats Steeler fans. Your team played a helluva game today. Seahawks fans, you too.

 
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Well, I heard a lot of talk this week about how Plummer got the monkey off his back, etc...and got the Broncos their first playoff win since whenever. Well, his team was pretty much dominated by the Pats except for the turnovers and he did squat yesterday....so he underperformed in most people's eyes.Delhomme proved his point with two excellent performances. They were on the road in the playoffs for the third straight week having to travel to the west coast, so the expectations were somewhat lower.Benefit of the doubt goes to Delhomme.

 
Delhomme had a worse game but unlike Plummer he and Steve Smith were the whole Carolina show. Carolina went into the game with their #3 RB as the starter then lost him early, everyone knew this was going to be Delhomme's game to win or lose. While he played poorly he had no choice but to play gunslinger and try to make something happen in a hostile environment.Plummer has one of the best running games backing him up and home field advantage. He made plenty of stoopid plays that are completely inexcusable (underhanded throw anyone?). He cost his team early and couldn't recover.Plummer cost his team. Delhomme was his team.

 
Plummer's 2 picks were probably the only bad decisions of the day.He completed the underhanded throw, and Favre's been praised for his "gunslinger" nature when he does the same thing.I completely agree that this is unfair here. Plummer contributed to the loss, but not nearly to the extent that Delhomme did. The Broncos simply got dominated on 3rd downs, even after forcing the Steelers into 3rd-and-long. They had no answer on defense and that's why they lost.Plummer threw a huge, devastating interception when it was 17-3, and the 24-3 was probably the knockout punch given the constrictor-like way the Steelers hold a lead. But Plummer wasn't the main reason it was 17-3 in the first place.Broncos lost to a better team. They'll learn from this and be back next year.

 
If Plummer played the game of his life I don't know that it would have been enough considering how the Steelers offense owned the Bronco's defense. Roth could do whatever he wanted against the Broncos and it's only when they went into the prevent shell in the 2nd half that they started stopping the Steelers.

 
The heat that Plummer is taking from the media here just shows how incredibly undereducated in the game of football that they are. All you are hearing about is the 4 turnovers & how Plummer played so badly.Turnover 1: Plummer fumbles. Plummer never had a chance. Both edges of his protection collapsed before he even had a chance to set his feet. Getting simultaneously hit from the front & blindside caused the fumble, and a lot of QBs would have fumbled in the same situation.Turnover 2: Plummer INT. Stephen Alexander is isolated on a much smaller CB on an out route 12-15 yds down the field. Plummer throws a timing route out to him, but unfortunately even though Alexander is downfield and 1-on-1, he never turns his head to look for the ball. The CB had an easy play & Alexander never even knew the ball was in his vicinity until after the pick.Turnover 3: Plummer INT. Bad, bad decision by Plummer. he tries to throw to Rod Smith in the middle of the field and he is bracketed by 4 white jerseys. There was no way he could have snuck that ball in there. This one is all on Plummer.Turnover 4: Plummer fumble. It was 4th & 10 late in the game, and the rush was all over him yet again. He tried to pull another wild scramble in the midst of being sacked & lost the football. Hard to see much harm here - if Plummer hung onto the football & is sacked, PIT takes over deep in DEN territory anyhow.The Steelers were all over Plummer all game like bears on honey. The blocking schemes by DEN were clearly inadequate, and apparently Stephen Alexander forgot to set his alarm clock because he slept through the whole game. To put this on Plummer because of his 4 TOs is utter ignorance. The guy was running for his life, Shanahan gave up on the running game way too early, especially since it looked like DEN could have run the ball effectively all game, the O-line played badly on the edge, and the pass blocking scheming was highly questionable.PIT won the game because they are a better team than DEN. They are deeper, their D is more ferocious, and they don't have a legit weakness other than some DB questions which they cover very well with their QB pressure.

 
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Great post, Pony.The saddest thing is that Plummer faced the music, took his lumps, and publicly took blame for the loss even though it wasn't his fault. He's the anti-Manning, and yet some people in Denver want to get rid of him after a 14-win season that was possibly the 3rd-best in franchise history.

 
Foxworth seems a much better candidate to take blame yesterday than Plummer does. Steelers picked on him the entire game and that plan worked like a charm again and again. Really wish Darrent Williams would have been healthy for this game, but hey, kudos to Pitt for exploiting a weakness.

 
Plummer's 2 picks were probably the only bad decisions of the day.

He completed the underhanded throw, and Favre's been praised for his "gunslinger" nature when he does the same thing.

I completely agree that this is unfair here. Plummer contributed to the loss, but not nearly to the extent that Delhomme did. The Broncos simply got dominated on 3rd downs, even after forcing the Steelers into 3rd-and-long. They had no answer on defense and that's why they lost.

Plummer threw a huge, devastating interception when it was 17-3, and the 24-3 was probably the knockout punch given the constrictor-like way the Steelers hold a lead. But Plummer wasn't the main reason it was 17-3 in the first place.

Broncos lost to a better team. They'll learn from this and be back next year.
Agree with this assessment. I really thought Plummer played pretty well today....not exceptional of course, but certainly well. The INTs were costly, but the team was playing from behind and that is usually a by-product of playing from behind. You have to take more chances.

Credit should be given to the Pittsburgh offense who converted 3rd down after 3rd down after 3rd down. By the time Plummer and the offense got the ball back with two minutes to go in the 1st half, the Steelers had pretty much had the ball the whole time.

In the second half, Plummer was stellar except for the one pick. He kept eluding the pressure and got plays off that most QBs in the league couldn't have. The Pittsburgh blitz was just relentless.....again.

So, I'd give Jake P a B- for his performance yesterday, whereas Delhomme truly did struggle for most of the game.

 
The heat that Plummer is taking from the media here just shows how incredibly undereducated in the game of football that they are. All you are hearing about is the 4 turnovers & how Plummer played so badly.

Turnover 1: Plummer fumbles. Plummer never had a chance. Both edges of his protection collapsed before he even had a chance to set his feet. Getting simultaneously hit from the front & blindside caused the fumble, and a lot of QBs would have fumbled in the same situation.

Turnover 2: Plummer INT. Stephen Alexander is isolated on a much smaller CB on an out route 12-15 yds down the field. Plummer throws a timing route out to him, but unfortunately even though Alexander is downfield and 1-on-1, he never turns his head to look for the ball. The CB had an easy play & Alexander never even knew the ball was in his vicinity until after the pick.

Turnover 3: Plummer INT. Bad, bad decision by Plummer. he tries to throw to Rod Smith in the middle of the field and he is bracketed by 4 white jerseys. There was no way he could have snuck that ball in there. This one is all on Plummer.

Turnover 4: Plummer fumble. It was 4th & 10 late in the game, and the rush was all over him yet again. He tried to pull another wild scramble in the midst of being sacked & lost the football. Hard to see much harm here - if Plummer hung onto the football & is sacked, PIT takes over deep in DEN territory anyhow.

The Steelers were all over Plummer all game like bears on honey. The blocking schemes by DEN were clearly inadequate, and apparently Stephen Alexander forgot to set his alarm clock because he slept through the whole game. To put this on Plummer because of his 4 TOs is utter ignorance. The guy was running for his life, Shanahan gave up on the running game way too early, especially since it looked like DEN could have run the ball effectively all game, the O-line played badly on the edge, and the pass blocking scheming was highly questionable.

PIT won the game because they are a better team than DEN. They are deeper, their D is more ferocious, and they don't have a legit weakness other than some DB questions which they cover very well with their QB pressure.
What he said. :thumbup: I knew someone would come along and put my feelings into words far better than I could have done. Thanks, Pony.

 
Neither Jake played well in their respective games today, but it seems (at least to me) that Jake Plummer is taking a lot more heat from the national media than is Jake Delhomme.
One was the QB for a #5 seed, playing the #1 team, in their house, for their third consecutive road game in 3 weeks. The other was the #2 team, hosting the #6 seed on the road for the 3rd consecutive week.
Plummer seems to be taking the blunt of the blame for Denver's loss.
Maybe so. To me, Jake played like Jake plays. He's not going to win games for you. He's Trent Dilfer reincarnated. I give more of the credit for the win to Ben Roethlisberger. Plummer can run around, and evade the rush, but he's doesn't make that pass in the end zone, just over 2 defenders. That's not what he does. Is Jake taking heat? He gave the ball up 3 times that mattered. The fourth was really irrelevent.
Meanwhile, it seems blame is being deflected from Delhomme and being placed on the Panther's collectively.
The Panthers D was absolutely ineffective. The offense couldn't do much. They had no run game, after the 3rd string QB went down. Plummer was in a far different situation.
All this, and Plummer, despite playing poorly, had a far better game than Delhomme against what most consider to be a far better defense. The story seems to go, Big Ben stepped up, Plummer choked. On the other hand, Seattle stepped up on offense and defense--they were just too much for Carolina to handle. Granted, most people here realize that Plummer was not the sole reason Denver lost, but all I'm seeing in articles from the national media is "Jake The Mistake" this and "Bad Jake" that.
I think the reality is that Delhomme has led his inferior teams to a SB, and an NFC Championship over the last 3 years. Plummer has won exactly one playoff game in that time, and he didn't exactly 'win' the game for the team. The Pats gave them the game, and Jake was able to do what average QB's do. Don't lose the game. When he was asked to win it against Pitt, he failed, miserably. Delhomme failed as well, but he wasn't playing for the #2 seed, against a #6, at home, or with his starting RB's. That's football, but there's solid reasons Plummers performance deserves more criticism.
 
Delhomme playing poorly in the postseason went against the norm. Plummer playing poorly in the postseason is the norm.Therein lies the difference.

 
the one word I'm sick of hearing wrt Plummer is "revert". As in, "he reverted to his old ways". One bad game and everyone wants to pile it on.On the second pick, Den was already down by a considerable amount. Jake was pressing - trying to force something that probably wasn't there. I guess the thing is that legendary QB's don't press - when the pressure is on, they seem to magically find clarity and suceed without pressing. Elway was the best at this, and as long as Plummer plays in Denver he will have the shadow of #7 to be compared to. Plummer is a good QB and may turn into a great QB, but will never be legendary.I don't think Plummer is the second coming of Dilfer - that is, a game manager. He can make plays and lead a team downfield. But, he is not, and never will be, the QB who can single-handedly pick a team up off the canvas and lead them to victory. He needs help.That being said, he is the QB best suited to run Shanahan's offense and will continue to be. For Denver to move ahead in the payoffs, the rest of the team will have to compensate. I kind of look at the 2005 Broncos as being similar to the 1986 Broncos - good D, good O, has the peices to go far. The difference is the 1986 Broncos had Elway, who could elevate the play of the entire team. I would like to pose that if Plummer were playing on that 1986 team, they would have made it to Cleveland for the AFCCG, and lost by a similar score to what happened yesterday. That game was won by the grace of Elway alone.

 
One was the QB for a #5 seed, playing the #1 team, in their house, for their third consecutive road game in 3 weeks. The other was the #2 team, hosting the #6 seed on the road for the 3rd consecutive week.
This is a valid point but I really don't consider it all that relevant to my point.
Maybe so. To me, Jake played like Jake plays. He's not going to win games for you. He's Trent Dilfer reincarnated. I give more of the credit for the win to Ben Roethlisberger. Plummer can run around, and evade the rush, but he's doesn't make that pass in the end zone, just over 2 defenders. That's not what he does. Is Jake taking heat? He gave the ball up 3 times that mattered. The fourth was really irrelevent.
I don't think Jake is the reincarnation of Dilfer, but we're all entitled to our opinion on that matter. I agree completely that Big Ben deserves a ton of credit, and he's getting it. I assume you're referring to Big Ben's pass in the end zone that went just over the outstetched hands of Ferguson. Absolutely a great pass. Plummer's second INT was not much different. If you watch the replay, whoever it was who made that INT made a great catch, and if Plummer got just a bit more air under that pass, it would have got through just like Big Ben's pass did. In the first half, Plummer made a tremendous throw to Jeb Putzier--he threaded it perfectly between 3 Pittsburgh defenders. He does make great throws at times--his shortcoming is that he doesn't always check down to the underneathe routes when he should, but instead tries to force it to his primary option.
The Panthers D was absolutely ineffective. The offense couldn't do much. They had no run game, after the 3rd string QB went down. Plummer was in a far different situation.
I don't see how Plummer was in a far different situation. Denver's D was just as ineffective. Whild Denver was running the ball fairly well, they abandoned the run entirely once they were down 17-3. I think the situations were very similar.
I think the reality is that Delhomme has led his inferior teams to a SB, and an NFC Championship over the last 3 years. Plummer has won exactly one playoff game in that time, and he didn't exactly 'win' the game for the team. The Pats gave them the game, and Jake was able to do what average QB's do. Don't lose the game. When he was asked to win it against Pitt, he failed, miserably. Delhomme failed as well, but he wasn't playing for the #2 seed, against a #6, at home, or with his starting RB's. That's football, but there's solid reasons Plummers performance deserves more criticism.
I'm well aware of their respective histories--that's kind of the point of my rant. I don't think it's fair to judge Plummer on what he's done in the past, as he had a very good season. Similarly, I don't think it's fair to give Delhomme a free pass merely because he has historically played very well in games of that magnitude. That's all I'm saying.
 
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One was the QB for a #5 seed, playing the #1 team, in their house, for their third consecutive road game in 3 weeks. The other was the #2 team, hosting the #6 seed on the road for the 3rd consecutive week.
This is a valid point but I really don't consider it all that relevant to my point.
Maybe so. To me, Jake played like Jake plays. He's not going to win games for you. He's Trent Dilfer reincarnated. I give more of the credit for the win to Ben Roethlisberger. Plummer can run around, and evade the rush, but he's doesn't make that pass in the end zone, just over 2 defenders. That's not what he does. Is Jake taking heat? He gave the ball up 3 times that mattered. The fourth was really irrelevent.
I don't think Jake is the reincarnation of Dilfer, but we're all entitled to our opinion on that matter. I agree completely that Big Ben deserves a ton of credit, and he's getting it. I assume you're referring to Big Ben's pass in the end zone that went just over the outstetched hands of Ferguson. Absolutely a great pass. Plummer's second INT was not much different. If you watch the replay, whoever it was who made that INT made a great catch, and if Plummer got just a bit more air under that pass, it would have got through just like Big Ben's pass did. In the first half, Plummer made a tremendous throw to Jeb Putzier--he threaded it perfectly between 3 Pittsburgh defenders. He does make great throws at times--his shortcoming is that he doesn't always check down to the underneathe routes when he should, but instead tries to force it to his primary option.
The Panthers D was absolutely ineffective. The offense couldn't do much. They had no run game, after the 3rd string QB went down. Plummer was in a far different situation.
I don't see how Plummer was in a far different situation. Denver's D was just as ineffective. Whild Denver was running the ball fairly well, they abandoned the run entirely once they were down 17-3. I think the situations were very similar.
I think the reality is that Delhomme has led his inferior teams to a SB, and an NFC Championship over the last 3 years. Plummer has won exactly one playoff game in that time, and he didn't exactly 'win' the game for the team. The Pats gave them the game, and Jake was able to do what average QB's do. Don't lose the game. When he was asked to win it against Pitt, he failed, miserably. Delhomme failed as well, but he wasn't playing for the #2 seed, against a #6, at home, or with his starting RB's. That's football, but there's solid reasons Plummers performance deserves more criticism.
I'm well aware of their respective histories--that's kind of the point of my rant. I don't think it's fair to judge Plummer on what he's done in the past, as he had a very good season. Similarly, I don't think it's fair to give Delhomme a free pass merely because he has historically played very well in games of that magnitude. That's all I'm saying.
:goodposting:
 
*shrug* Both Jake's played poorly. Both were playing down the entire game, and forcing things... pretty simple...

 
Maybe Plummer could' ve flipped the fans off again. Surely that could help endear him to the fans and media.

 

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