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Jamal Khashoggi - Journalist Killed in Saudi Consulate (1 Viewer)

Henry Ford said:
Your first two posts are very different from your third and fourth.  The third and fourth are perfectly reasonable and based on a real-world view of Saudi Arabia as a despotic regime.  The first two suggest that what Khashoggi did was a crime in any country, which is false with respect to what happened in this case.
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You're right.  What he did was treason from a Saudi perspective.

 
stlrams said:
You're right.  What he did was treason from a Saudi perspective.
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Wait, I thought this was a rogue operation and that 11 Saudi's have been charged with crimes by Saudi prosecutors. Isn't that inconsistent with your stance?

 
Sinn Fein said:
You know this makes no sense - right?

A "very volatile" region, by its very definition has no stability....
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Volatile mean liable to change rapidly and unpredictably, especially for the worse.    Therefore you can have stability in volatile region but its prone to change quick.

 
stlrams said:
Volatile mean liable to change rapidly and unpredictably, especially for the worse.    Therefore you can have stability in volatile region but its prone to change quick.
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For the majority of your lifetime, there has been on-going military conflict in that region.

I would hardly say there has been stability.

Now, I think what you perhaps meant to say, is that Saudi Arabia helps prop up the US economy by continuing to support the US$ as the universal currency for oil trades.  And, if the US$ ever lost that position, it could be catastrophic.  

 
Sinn Fein said:
For the majority of your lifetime, there has been on-going military conflict in that region.

I would hardly say there has been stability.

Now, I think what you perhaps meant to say, is that Saudi Arabia helps prop up the US economy by continuing to support the US$ as the universal currency for oil trades.  And, if the US$ ever lost that position, it could be catastrophic.  
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For thousands of years there's been military conflict in region emanating from Sunni and Shiites clans... 

 
stlrams said:
That's up to the Saudis to decide.
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You previously mentioned "Saudi perspective" supporting you, and now here you say it is up to the Saudi's to decide if Khashoggi was acting treasonously. The Saudi's have already taken a public stance on this. They have determined this was an unsanctioned rogue operation and a crime, and Saudi prosecutors have filed criminal charges against 11 who were involved in the murder under Saudi law, possibly punishable by death. Separately, the Crown Prince headed an "investigation" whether there were more involved in the crime. That is the Saudi perspective, and what they decided.

 
stlrams said:
Believe the assessment is without Israel and SA the entire region would be a mess creating more problems then we have today. . 
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We have given countless lives and treasure to the region - why should we care if they kill each other?

I mean, its a dangerous world out there.

 
Bucky86 said:
Burgess Everett‏Verified account @burgessev

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After CIA briefing, Corker says if this was a murder trial MBS would be found guilty very quickly in Khashoggi murder

9:54 AM - 4 Dec 2018
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well, he strenuously denied it.  who knows?

 
Bucky86 said:
Burgess Everett‏Verified account @burgessev

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After CIA briefing, Corker says if this was a murder trial MBS would be found guilty very quickly in Khashoggi murder

9:54 AM - 4 Dec 2018
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I know Republicans are fine with misrepresenting statistics, etc. to make a point but I'm hoping this is a wake up call to GOP congressmen about just how far this administration is willing to go to distort facts for their narrative.  Misleading Congress about the evidence we have regarding the murder of a US resident, just so his SA buddies don't look bad, is taking things to a completely different level.

 
It’s clear that trump and his administration have been providing cover, and lying for Saudi Arabia. The question is, will they start the appropriate investigations into why? Let’s see if some conservatives can break from trump and the Nationalist Populists, and do the right thing here. At some point, something has to make them want to create some daylight between them, and salvage the party. Something has to matter. 

It makes me sad to say it, but I’m not holding my breath. I’m expecting a lot of “concerned” and “disturbing.”

 
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The Football Freak said:
It’s clear that trump and his administration have been providing cover, and lying for Saudi Arabia. The question is, will they start the appropriate investigations into why? Let’s see if some conservatives can break from trump and the Nationalist Populists, and do the right thing here. At some point, something has to make them want to create some daylight between them, and salvage the party. Something has to matter. 

It makes me sad to say it, but I’m not holding my breath. I’m expecting a lot of “concerned” and “disturbing.”
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January.

 
I know this gets played a lot, but seriously imagine if this was the Obama administration we were talking about here and the cover up of the murder of a US citizen.  Rush's head would explode.

 
zoonation said:
I know this gets played a lot, but seriously imagine if this was the Obama administration we were talking about here and the cover up of the murder of a US citizen.  Rush's head would explode.
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not to be *that* guy but JK wasn't a US citizen. he was a resident, employed by a US company, and effectively a political dissident. big difference, i think. 

spelling it out like that, I have to wonder how the Turkish cleric Gulen - in hiding in PA - has lasted thus long. this may be payback from Turkey for not handing him over to them earlier this year. 

 
saintfool said:
not to be *that* guy but JK wasn't a US citizen. he was a resident, employed by a US company, and effectively a political dissident. big difference, i think. 

spelling it out like that, I have to wonder how the Turkish cleric Gulen - in hiding in PA - has lasted thus long. this may be payback from Turkey for not handing him over to them earlier this year. 
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So, in order to exact revenge on Trump, the Turks managed to get the Saudis to kill a Saudi dissident,that lived in the US on Turkish soil?

How exactly do you see that happening?

 
Really makes me question the judgments of Pompeo and Mattis to so publicly defend Trump on this.  Odd hill to die on.

 
jomar said:
well, he strenuously denied it.  who knows?
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Who could know. Honestly, there's a lot of bad people in the world. Aren't they all to blame for this? The important thing is that we have six hundred eleventy kajillion worth of defense contracts and 40 million American jobs at stake here, folks.

 
msommer said:
So, in order to exact revenge on Trump, the Turks managed to get the Saudis to kill a Saudi dissident,that lived in the US on Turkish soil?

How exactly do you see that happening?
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I think it's the Turks releasing their intelligence slowly, allowing SA and the White House enough rope to hang themselves at each turn before releasing the next bit of evidence that blows their previous lie out of the water. I think @saintfool is implying that had we handed them Gulen as Flynn wanted, they might have been a little more discreet about what they had on the Khashoggi killing.

 
Ignoramus said:
Who could know. Honestly, there's a lot of bad people in the world. Aren't they all to blame for this? The important thing is that we have six hundred eleventy kajillion worth of defense contracts and 40 million American jobs at stake here, folks.
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There were good people on both sides inside that Consulate    :shrug:

 
msommer said:
So, in order to exact revenge on Trump, the Turks managed to get the Saudis to kill a Saudi dissident,that lived in the US on Turkish soil?

How exactly do you see that happening?
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No, Turks leaked the info after the fact maybe. We wouldn't be anywhere near this without the Turkish gov't sharing the details and more with the public. It's a stick in the eye of MSB and the KSA but that isn't the best, most nasty possible motivation. They are aware of the relationship Kushner has with MSB. Trump has resisted the requests from Turkey to turnover Gulen. This is their payback. In effect, why are you covering for KSA when they're doing the same thing with a troublemaker? 

 
Ignoramus said:
Who could know. Honestly, there's a lot of bad people in the world. Aren't they all to blame for this? The important thing is that we have six hundred eleventy kajillion worth of defense contracts and 40 million American jobs at stake here, folks.
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Donald Trump should lose his job over it.

 
As an extremely immoral person and one who places the interests of the US above the life of an individual, this whole thing is growing tiresome and is akin to the whole conservative debate and apoplexy surrounding abortion.  

 
bananafish said:
Im not tired of it. The more light on this the better. 
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Is it because it serves as a foil against an extremely distasteful individual and administration with whom you are diametrically opposed or because you value the life of a previously obscure foreign national that greatly?

 
Dooook said:
As an extremely immoral person and one who places the interests of the US above the life of an individual, this whole thing is growing tiresome and is akin to the whole conservative debate and apoplexy surrounding abortion.  
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Pro life - except when it comes to journalist, then they should all be aborted, well except those fox news ones

 
Any good articles on what would be considered an appropriate response here?

Kudos to Graham so far but there needs to be some kind of action.

 
jamny said:
Any good articles on what would be considered an appropriate response here?

Kudos to Graham so far but there needs to be some kind of action.
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1. Stop lying and serving as a mouthpiece to provide cover for MBS

2. Demand that MBS be held accountable and have them find another one of their 15,000 family members to anoint as Crown Prince

 
Ignoramus said:
2. Demand that MBS be held accountable and have them find another one of their 15,000 family members to anoint as Crown Prince
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And how do you propose we do that? We demand and it happens?

I agree with the sentiment but would like to hear concrete suggestions about how to get there.

 
jamny said:
And how do you propose we do that? We demand and it happens?

I agree with the sentiment but would like to hear concrete suggestions about how to get there.
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Demand seems like the wrong word (at least publically). I've seen a number of interviews on both side of the aisle suggesting that the US should publically emphasize its principles in condemning what happened, while expressing a hope to continue working with SA (i.e. not MBS) on important regional goals. Deals and support are either reached or not reached between SA-US depending on conduct of their current leader (e.g. maybe the arms deal is squashed as a consequence of this conduct). SA is left to decide whether their appointed CP is the right choice to further SA objectives, or is he a liability. In other words, quit acting like MBS and SA are the same thing.

 
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