Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (2 Viewers)

[Zegras11]

This whole "crosseyed just cares so much because he's a Pitt fan" makes you guys look silly. Cross is a pastor. Know who people of faith go to when their entire life falls apart due to something like this? Their pastor. Pastors deal with the results of this kind of thing on a pretty regular basis. Not from strangers, either. From people they've devoted their lives to serving, friends, and family. It's hard. He's entitled to care about this a little more than most of us do, and he's being perfectly reasonable in his criticisms, even if he is a bit zealous.

Thanks. I've stated some of the reasons for my passion about this subject earlier in this thread. Although as long as this thread is, I can understand how people would have missed that.I've actually seen sexual abuse of children affect my wife's family. Won't go into details, other than my wife wasn't directly affected. And yes, I've spoken to far too many people in my role as pastor who have revealed sexual abuse at the hands of fathers, uncles, brothers, family friends, etc. while they were children. And I can tell you that in most cases it is something that follows people for the rest of their lives.It's easily the most under reported crime in the US. And somehow we need to change the culture that leads to it being covered up as much as it is.

 

[The Future Champs]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/the_citadel_reviews_molestatio.html'>My link

Cross, I hope you show the same enthusiam against the Citidel president.. looks like he looked the other way as well..

I was reading about that case earlier. The folks at The Citadel clearly dropped the ball.But you really aren't suggesting that these two cases are comparable, are you?

No, of course not, b/c only one case involves Penn State.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/the_citadel_reviews_molestatio.html'>My link

Cross, I hope you show the same enthusiam against the Citidel president.. looks like he looked the other way as well..

I was reading about that case earlier. The folks at The Citadel clearly dropped the ball.But you really aren't suggesting that these two cases are comparable, are you?

only the part where a high ranking official at a college looked the other way when presented with child molestation charges.. imagine if the Citidel president acted when he fisrt heard about it.. how many molestations could have been prevented???

I guess the name Citidel isn't sexy enough to get the same attention..

Dude...

Citadel president looked the other way in the face of evidence, no?

We all understand you are upset. But, what does it help/hurt what anyone says in the other thread? It won't make it any better or worst what happened in Happy Valley. Whether it is 1 kid or 100, it is a bad deal all around for both institutions.

 

[CrossEyed]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/the_citadel_reviews_molestatio.html'>My link

Cross, I hope you show the same enthusiam against the Citidel president.. looks like he looked the other way as well..

I was reading about that case earlier. The folks at The Citadel clearly dropped the ball.But you really aren't suggesting that these two cases are comparable, are you?

No, of course not, b/c only one case involves Penn State.

Just stop this nonsense, OK?

 

[Parrothead]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/the_citadel_reviews_molestatio.html'>My link

Cross, I hope you show the same enthusiam against the Citidel president.. looks like he looked the other way as well..

I was reading about that case earlier. The folks at The Citadel clearly dropped the ball.But you really aren't suggesting that these two cases are comparable, are you?

only the part where a high ranking official at a college looked the other way when presented with child molestation charges.. imagine if the Citidel president acted when he fisrt heard about it.. how many molestations could have been prevented???



I guess the name Citidel isn't sexy enough to get the same attention..

Dude...

Citadel president looked the other way in the face of evidence, no?

Your defense of Penn State in these threads is getting creepy. If you don't understand why this is such a big scandal or why Penn State is under extreme scrutiny right now, you can't see the forest through the trees.

you obviously haven't read the whole thread.. I am absolutely disgusted at what happened and called for paterno and others to be fired.. what gets me is the gleeful enthusiam of the haters piling on everything Penn State.. I present another college with a coverup, and it gets brsuhed off.. do the 5 kids molested becacuse the citidel looked the other way not matter??

 

[Parrothead]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/the_citadel_reviews_molestatio.html'>My link

Cross, I hope you show the same enthusiam against the Citidel president.. looks like he looked the other way as well..

I was reading about that case earlier. The folks at The Citadel clearly dropped the ball.But you really aren't suggesting that these two cases are comparable, are you?

only the part where a high ranking official at a college looked the other way when presented with child molestation charges.. imagine if the Citidel president acted when he fisrt heard about it.. how many molestations could have been prevented???

I guess the name Citidel isn't sexy enough to get the same attention..

Stop and think about what you're trying to compare here. Please?

child abuse is child abuse

 

[CrossEyed]

you obviously haven't read the whole thread.. I am absolutely disgusted at what happened and called for paterno and others to be fired.. what gets me is the gleeful enthusiam of the haters piling on everything Penn State.. I present another college with a coverup, and it gets brsuhed off.. do the 5 kids molested becacuse the citidel looked the other way not matter??

Of course they matter. But comparing a situation where there was a person who worked as a part-time camp counselor during the summer with one accusation (5 years after the fact) that was investigated and led to a dead-end, to the situation at PSU is a pretty huge reach, imo.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I've kept up with this thread since the beginning. I'm not gonna argue with you about it, but IMO it's getting creepy. People don't start comparing sex scandals to try and diffuse the heat coming at Penn State. Why bother? Why even mention that kind of thing at this point?

 

[Parrothead]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/the_citadel_reviews_molestatio.html'>My link

Cross, I hope you show the same enthusiam against the Citidel president.. looks like he looked the other way as well..

I was reading about that case earlier. The folks at The Citadel clearly dropped the ball.But you really aren't suggesting that these two cases are comparable, are you?

only the part where a high ranking official at a college looked the other way when presented with child molestation charges.. imagine if the Citidel president acted when he fisrt heard about it.. how many molestations could have been prevented???

I guess the name Citidel isn't sexy enough to get the same attention..

Dude...

Citadel president looked the other way in the face of evidence, no?

We all understand you are upset. But, what does it help/hurt what anyone says in the other thread? It won't make it any better or worst what happened in Happy Valley. Whether it is 1 kid or 100, it is a bad deal all around for both institutions.

not trying to minimalize the PSU incidents at all.. just curious as to the motives of posters who seem to be enjoying themselves at the expense of penn state's failures in this thread..

 

[CrossEyed]

not trying to minimalize the PSU incidents at all.. just curious as to the motives of posters who seem to be enjoying themselves at the expense of penn state's failures in this thread..

You seriously think I'm enjoying any of this?

 

[Parrothead]

you obviously haven't read the whole thread.. I am absolutely disgusted at what happened and called for paterno and others to be fired.. what gets me is the gleeful enthusiam of the haters piling on everything Penn State.. I present another college with a coverup, and it gets brsuhed off.. do the 5 kids molested becacuse the citidel looked the other way not matter??

Of course they matter. But comparing a situation where there was a person who worked as a part-time camp counselor during the summer with one accusation (5 years after the fact) that was investigated and led to a dead-end, to the situation at PSU is a pretty huge reach, imo.

there is more to the story, but this answers my quesiton..good night

 

[Parrothead]

not trying to minimalize the PSU incidents at all.. just curious as to the motives of posters who seem to be enjoying themselves at the expense of penn state's failures in this thread..

You seriously think I'm enjoying any of this?

dude, you have occupied this thread for the last week..

 

[The Comedian]

The rape of several children over a period of many years by a coach that also ran his old charity organization specifically designed to create opportunities for him to rape children, followed by a cover up by several high rankings officials at a major American educational and athletic institution is a major topic, but clearly pales in comparison in importance to finding out why Crosseyed has so many posts in this thread, and I agree that our attention should be directed accordingly.

 

[CrossEyed]

not trying to minimalize the PSU incidents at all.. just curious as to the motives of posters who seem to be enjoying themselves at the expense of penn state's failures in this thread..

You seriously think I'm enjoying any of this?

dude, you have occupied this thread for the last week..

Dude, can you read?

 

[CrossEyed]

Brooks about to be on 93.7 The Fan.

 

[culdeus]

Well Citadel did it too, I guess JoePa can make the road trip now right?

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Well Citadel did it too, I guess JoePa can make the road trip now right?

Surely JoePa doesn't go to any games this year.

 

[The Kerminator]

not trying to minimalize the PSU incidents at all.. just curious as to the motives of posters who seem to be enjoying themselves at the expense of penn state's failures in this thread..

You seriously think I'm enjoying any of this?

dude, you have occupied this thread for the last week..

Dude, it means he cares. Doesn't mean he enjoys it. Can we focus the attention back on the case at hand and not some sort of ####ing contest?

 

[shuke]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/the_citadel_reviews_molestatio.html'>My link

Cross, I hope you show the same enthusiam against the Citidel president.. looks like he looked the other way as well..

I was reading about that case earlier. The folks at The Citadel clearly dropped the ball.But you really aren't suggesting that these two cases are comparable, are you?

only the part where a high ranking official at a college looked the other way when presented with child molestation charges.. imagine if the Citidel president acted when he fisrt heard about it.. how many molestations could have been prevented???

I guess the name Citidel isn't sexy enough to get the same attention..

Grow up.

 

[Not Sure]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/the_citadel_reviews_molestatio.html'>My link

Cross, I hope you show the same enthusiam against the Citidel president.. looks like he looked the other way as well..

I was reading about that case earlier. The folks at The Citadel clearly dropped the ball.But you really aren't suggesting that these two cases are comparable, are you?

only the part where a high ranking official at a college looked the other way when presented with child molestation charges.. imagine if the Citidel president acted when he fisrt heard about it.. how many molestations could have been prevented???

I guess the name Citidel isn't sexy enough to get the same attention..

Dude...

Citadel president looked the other way in the face of evidence, no?

We all understand you are upset. But, what does it help/hurt what anyone says in the other thread? It won't make it any better or worst what happened in Happy Valley. Whether it is 1 kid or 100, it is a bad deal all around for both institutions.

not trying to minimalize the PSU incidents at all.. just curious as to the motives of posters who seem to be enjoying themselves at the expense of penn state's failures in this thread..

You're really embarrassing yourself in this thread.

 

[wazoo11]

This @SPORTSbyBROOKS guy is going to be on Colin Dunlap's show tonight at 11:00 on 93.7 The Fan.

He's the guy who originally reported that Sandusky and Second Mile may have been providing boys to wealthy donors.

TMZ of sports IMO

 

[AmosMoses]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/the_citadel_reviews_molestatio.html'>My link

Cross, I hope you show the same enthusiam against the Citidel president.. looks like he looked the other way as well..

I was reading about that case earlier. The folks at The Citadel clearly dropped the ball.But you really aren't suggesting that these two cases are comparable, are you?

only the part where a high ranking official at a college looked the other way when presented with child molestation charges.. imagine if the Citidel president acted when he fisrt heard about it.. how many molestations could have been prevented???

I guess the name Citidel isn't sexy enough to get the same attention..

This seems like pretty serious stuff. You should make a thread about it.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Pretty sure Parrothead is related to Sandusky or Paterno.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Joe Pa coached that game Saturday as much as he's coached any game in the past 10 years

 

[Short Corner]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/the_citadel_reviews_molestatio.html'>My link

Cross, I hope you show the same enthusiam against the Citidel president.. looks like he looked the other way as well..

I was reading about that case earlier. The folks at The Citadel clearly dropped the ball.But you really aren't suggesting that these two cases are comparable, are you?

only the part where a high ranking official at a college looked the other way when presented with child molestation charges.. imagine if the Citidel president acted when he fisrt heard about it.. how many molestations could have been prevented???

I guess the name Citidel isn't sexy enough to get the same attention..

Dude...

Citadel president looked the other way in the face of evidence, no?

I expect you will be continue to be an apologist for said organizations, PSU or not.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.

Christo: "Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive."

Obviously, it hypothetically could happen elsewhere but it does seem there are key characteristics of the environment at Penn State that helped make it more possible there.

I have no problem with that statement. My issue is with the people who think that it could only happen in that specific environment.

I think that's fair. I also think that the type of environment necessary to allow something like this to happen (the entire scenario, not just the abuse) probably only exists at a handful of universities.

I think these are the reasons that the Citidel situation is salient to this conversation. There have been bold statements that the situation in Penn State was unique and that only in such a situation or a very similar one, could such a 'cover up' occur. Sadly, this may be more pervasive than imagined. Does that exculpate PSU, no. Does it suggest, perhaps, that the problem may be less unique to the culture of the Penn State football program and more a symptom of corporate insularity - yes.

So it is part of this conversation when people bring up shutting down the program and/or cite the unique nature of the PSU situation (not dispositive on the issue, but relevant before anyone attempts to point out all the important differences). Cross Eyed is under no obligation to post 500 times in that thread nor should Parrothead be shouted down for thinking there is some probative value into exploring the Citadel situation.

 

[The Comedian]

Salient. Nice word. Underutilized.

 

[Parrothead]

Pretty sure Parrothead is related to Sandusky or Paterno.

I've ignored you for 89 pages- but please point me to the post where I defended Paterno or Sandusky (you kidding me?? ).. otherwise, ####

 

[NCCommish]

You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.

Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.

Universities routinely cover up crimes on campus one way or another

You using the word "routinely" and comparing this situation to other normal campus cover ups really makes it look like you haven't fully embraced the level of this situation.

The "level of this situation" was created because of where it happened and who was involved. But that does not prove that a similar situation could not happen elsewhere on a college campus.

So? Yes it is possible it could have happened somewhere else. What does that prove? If it happens somewhere else people should still have the same reaction. Another religion could have covered up abuse and enabled pedophiles, but the Catholic Church did do it so they had to pay the price. The argument that it is possible it could have happened with the Baptist church for example doesn't change anything.

Christo: "Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive."

Obviously, it hypothetically could happen elsewhere but it does seem there are key characteristics of the environment at Penn State that helped make it more possible there.

I have no problem with that statement. My issue is with the people who think that it could only happen in that specific environment.

I think that's fair. I also think that the type of environment necessary to allow something like this to happen (the entire scenario, not just the abuse) probably only exists at a handful of universities.

I think these are the reasons that the Citidel situation is salient to this conversation. There have been bold statements that the situation in Penn State was unique and that only in such a situation or a very similar one, could such a 'cover up' occur. Sadly, this may be more pervasive than imagined. Does that exculpate PSU, no. Does it suggest, perhaps, that the problem may be less unique to the culture of the Penn State football program and more a symptom of corporate insularity - yes.

So it is part of this conversation when people bring up shutting down the program and/or cite the unique nature of the PSU situation (not dispositive on the issue, but relevant before anyone attempts to point out all the important differences). Cross Eyed is under no obligation to post 500 times in that thread nor should Parrothead be shouted down for thinking there is some probative value into exploring the Citadel situation.

These are two completely different situations. From the level of the people involved in the kiddie diddlying, to the fact that the Citadel doesn't dominate it's region the way PSU does. I mean this guy wasn't a coach with keys to the showers he was an alum.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I think these are the reasons that the Citidel situation is salient to this conversation. There have been bold statements that the situation in Penn State was unique and that only in such a situation or a very similar one, could such a 'cover up' occur. Sadly, this may be more pervasive than imagined. Does that exculpate PSU, no. Does it suggest, perhaps, that the problem may be less unique to the culture of the Penn State football program and more a symptom of corporate insularity - yes.

So it is part of this conversation when people bring up shutting down the program and/or cite the unique nature of the PSU situation (not dispositive on the issue, but relevant before anyone attempts to point out all the important differences). Cross Eyed is under no obligation to post 500 times in that thread nor should Parrothead be shouted down for thinking there is some probative value into exploring the Citadel situation.

These are two completely different situations. From the level of the people involved in the kiddie diddlying, to the fact that the Citadel doesn't dominate it's region the way PSU does. I mean this guy wasn't a coach with keys to the showers he was an alum.

Thanks for reading. Different - yes.

Completely inapplicable to this discussion - no.

 

[NCCommish]

I think these are the reasons that the Citidel situation is salient to this conversation. There have been bold statements that the situation in Penn State was unique and that only in such a situation or a very similar one, could such a 'cover up' occur. Sadly, this may be more pervasive than imagined. Does that exculpate PSU, no. Does it suggest, perhaps, that the problem may be less unique to the culture of the Penn State football program and more a symptom of corporate insularity - yes.

So it is part of this conversation when people bring up shutting down the program and/or cite the unique nature of the PSU situation (not dispositive on the issue, but relevant before anyone attempts to point out all the important differences). Cross Eyed is under no obligation to post 500 times in that thread nor should Parrothead be shouted down for thinking there is some probative value into exploring the Citadel situation.

These are two completely different situations. From the level of the people involved in the kiddie diddlying, to the fact that the Citadel doesn't dominate it's region the way PSU does. I mean this guy wasn't a coach with keys to the showers he was an alum.

Thanks for reading. Different - yes.

Completely inapplicable to this discussion - no.

Yeah I read. And I disagree. There are really very few parallels beyond the actual abuse.

 

[Flyin Pigs]

Parrothead, whatever your intentions, you are coming off as a jackhole here and in the other thread.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I think these are the reasons that the Citidel situation is salient to this conversation. There have been bold statements that the situation in Penn State was unique and that only in such a situation or a very similar one, could such a 'cover up' occur. Sadly, this may be more pervasive than imagined. Does that exculpate PSU, no. Does it suggest, perhaps, that the problem may be less unique to the culture of the Penn State football program and more a symptom of corporate insularity - yes.

So it is part of this conversation when people bring up shutting down the program and/or cite the unique nature of the PSU situation (not dispositive on the issue, but relevant before anyone attempts to point out all the important differences). Cross Eyed is under no obligation to post 500 times in that thread nor should Parrothead be shouted down for thinking there is some probative value into exploring the Citadel situation.

These are two completely different situations. From the level of the people involved in the kiddie diddlying, to the fact that the Citadel doesn't dominate it's region the way PSU does. I mean this guy wasn't a coach with keys to the showers he was an alum.

Thanks for reading. Different - yes.

Completely inapplicable to this discussion - no.

Yeah I read. And I disagree. There are really very few parallels beyond the actual abuse.

To disagree is fine, to say it isn't part of the discussion is dismissive and short sighted.The assertion was made that cover-ups happen all the time.

Then the assertion was made that the PSU situation was unique.

Mad Sweeney even asked Christo for examples.

Then the Citadel information came out.

It is a cover up of a child-sex scandal at a University. In that sense, it is the same. Is it the same in scope? No. Does that disqualify it as an example of a child-sex scandal that was covered up? No. Does it lend credence to Christo's statement that such things are perhaps more pervasive than we think? Yes. Is it possible to think this might occur (frighteningly enough) on a grander scale than we imagine and that it isn't something that could "only happen in a few cases, PSU being one of them? Absolutely. The nature of the crime itself lends itself to coverup because of the stigma related to its victims.

 

[beer 30]

I've kept up with this thread since the beginning. I'm not gonna argue with you about it, but IMO it's getting creepy. People don't start comparing sex scandals to try and diffuse the heat coming at Penn State. Why bother? Why even mention that kind of thing at this point?

Child abuse is child abuse, doesn't matter who does it or where it's at, still very wrong regardless of national coverage. Threads like this, especially when they go 40+ pages, bring out the crazy in people at some point.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I guess we are about 10 days and close to 100 pages into this news and I am wondering if it is just me that cannot connect the dots into a narrative on what happened into a story that makes any sense? I know some of you have this all figured out, but watching this play out just doesn't add up.

 

[NCCommish]

I think these are the reasons that the Citidel situation is salient to this conversation. There have been bold statements that the situation in Penn State was unique and that only in such a situation or a very similar one, could such a 'cover up' occur. Sadly, this may be more pervasive than imagined. Does that exculpate PSU, no. Does it suggest, perhaps, that the problem may be less unique to the culture of the Penn State football program and more a symptom of corporate insularity - yes.

So it is part of this conversation when people bring up shutting down the program and/or cite the unique nature of the PSU situation (not dispositive on the issue, but relevant before anyone attempts to point out all the important differences). Cross Eyed is under no obligation to post 500 times in that thread nor should Parrothead be shouted down for thinking there is some probative value into exploring the Citadel situation.

These are two completely different situations. From the level of the people involved in the kiddie diddlying, to the fact that the Citadel doesn't dominate it's region the way PSU does. I mean this guy wasn't a coach with keys to the showers he was an alum.

Thanks for reading. Different - yes.

Completely inapplicable to this discussion - no.

Yeah I read. And I disagree. There are really very few parallels beyond the actual abuse.

To disagree is fine, to say it isn't part of the discussion is dismissive and short sighted.The assertion was made that cover-ups happen all the time.

Then the assertion was made that the PSU situation was unique.

Mad Sweeney even asked Christo for examples.

Then the Citadel information came out.

It is a cover up of a child-sex scandal at a University. In that sense, it is the same. Is it the same in scope? No. Does that disqualify it as an example of a child-sex scandal that was covered up? No. Does it lend credence to Christo's statement that such things are perhaps more pervasive than we think? Yes. Is it possible to think this might occur (frighteningly enough) on a grander scale than we imagine and that it isn't something that could "only happen in a few cases, PSU being one of them? Absolutely. The nature of the crime itself lends itself to coverup because of the stigma related to its victims.

Coverup?

"Though the general counsel was unable to corroborate the accusation, the college continued its investigation with the camper's family, who made it clear they were very concerned about maintaining their privacy and not having their names publicized.

No coverup. No pretending it didn't happen. No eye witness to rape. This was an alum who was also a principal in public schools. Multiple background checks were done. The parents were contacted. Now we can say the university should have done more despite the parents desires but there was no cover up that I see.

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

What's amazing that after JoePa (aka KRP) finds out about Sandusky ####### a boy in the shower he could work with him after that.

"Jerry, I was told you were raping a boy in the shower last week, but how do you think we're going to beat Iowa?"

Touched.At 22.

In a a state-related to Colorado.

Hold a press conference.

Didn't read all the pages. What means this?

Most repeated lines in this 86-page thread.Touched = title of Jerry Sandusky's book

22 = not McQueary's age

Colorado = someone kept posting Colorado's law as if it related to Pennsylvania

Press conference = people kept posting that the press conference was canceled

****'s Sporting Goods = Sandusky was spotted there (WEARING PSU CLOTHING!)

Victim numbers = are in chronological order of when they were reported

Gerry = another guy named Sandusky

### Coach - Sandusky's job title per the BBC (Rhymes with mass)

 

[fatness]

Inside the Jerry Sandusky investigation - why did it take so long?

By SARA GANIM, The Patriot-News The Patriot-News

“It was completely mishandled,” one source close to the investigation told The Patriot-News. “I know these investigations take time, some of them, but someone should have been on this day and night from the beginning because of the severity” of the allegations.

 

[CrossEyed]

Inside the Jerry Sandusky investigation - why did it take so long?

By SARA GANIM, The Patriot-News The Patriot-News

“It was completely mishandled,” one source close to the investigation told The Patriot-News. “I know these investigations take time, some of them, but someone should have been on this day and night from the beginning because of the severity” of the allegations.

So what we had here was eitherA) Incompetence.

B) An attempt to drag feet hoping that this thing will just go away so PSU doesn't look bad.

C) Some combination of A and B

Regardless, I think it's pretty clear that this trial (or trials) needs to be moved as far away from Happy Valley as possible.

 

[Smack Tripper]

For Penn State "supporters" to try to bring up Citadel as a means of defense is kind of strange.

But for people to minimize the Citadel thing in light of Penn State is losing sight of this.

One kid, one time, is an unacceptably high amount. I don't know how we'll get past this, as a society, but there is no such thing as "better" in this discussion. I know Citadel probably prides itself on discipline and all that crap, and comes from a similar elitist place that other institutions like the Catholic church came from which makes their certainly more ironic and likely uglier due to the level of trust. But any way this goes down is awful. I would hope our collective and national dialogue would at some point move past hand wringing and finger pointing. I think the only thing to be salvaged from this situation is a meaningful national dialogue on how to eliminate this problem.

But to split hairs over this, I don't know. I don't know how productive our dialogue is at this point. Even those that bicker would have to, i hope, agree that this is simply a terrible, terrible thing. We have scores of damaged children and I pray that they someone can defy the typical and simply find a way to move past this old fool diddling them. Instead of ranking molestation cases though, and instead of wearing stupid blue ribbons and having moments of silence(to celebrate years of silence), we should focus on the only societial salvation of ALL victims of molesting; creating a means to bring permanent light into this darkness.

And to that end, about what we can do, a thought. In this technological age, maybe we need to offer kids more in the way of having a safe way to report any and all abuse. Many have phones, offer a texing means, or if not, an email means of simply maybe giving them a way to report a potentially embarassing problem(embarassing to them). Of course, someone needs to monitor this new technology. Fund it Penn State.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

sganim Sara Ganim

Jack Raykovitz, CEO of #Sandusky charity, just resigned

 

[CrossEyed]

For Penn State "supporters" to try to bring up Citadel as a means of defense is kind of strange. But for people to minimize the Citadel thing in light of Penn State is losing sight of this.One kid, one time, is an unacceptably high amount. I don't know how we'll get past this, as a society, but there is no such thing as "better" in this discussion. I know Citadel probably prides itself on discipline and all that crap, and comes from a similar elitist place that other institutions like the Catholic church came from which makes their certainly more ironic and likely uglier due to the level of trust. But any way this goes down is awful. I would hope our collective and national dialogue would at some point move past hand wringing and finger pointing. I think the only thing to be salvaged from this situation is a meaningful national dialogue on how to eliminate this problem. But to split hairs over this, I don't know. I don't know how productive our dialogue is at this point. Even those that bicker would have to, i hope, agree that this is simply a terrible, terrible thing. We have scores of damaged children and I pray that they someone can defy the typical and simply find a way to move past this old fool diddling them. Instead of ranking molestation cases though, and instead of wearing stupid blue ribbons and having moments of silence(to celebrate years of silence), we should focus on the only societial salvation of ALL victims of molesting; creating a means to bring permanent light into this darkness. And to that end, about what we can do, a thought. In this technological age, maybe we need to offer kids more in the way of having a safe way to report any and all abuse. Many have phones, offer a texing means, or if not, an email means of simply maybe giving them a way to report a potentially embarassing problem(embarassing to them). Of course, someone needs to monitor this new technology. Fund it Penn State.

Agreed.I just haven't seen anyone trying to minimize the Citadel situation. Just pointing out that, other than the fact that it involves sexual abuse, the situations are apples and oranges.

 

[NCCommish]

For Penn State "supporters" to try to bring up Citadel as a means of defense is kind of strange. But for people to minimize the Citadel thing in light of Penn State is losing sight of this.One kid, one time, is an unacceptably high amount. I don't know how we'll get past this, as a society, but there is no such thing as "better" in this discussion. I know Citadel probably prides itself on discipline and all that crap, and comes from a similar elitist place that other institutions like the Catholic church came from which makes their certainly more ironic and likely uglier due to the level of trust. But any way this goes down is awful. I would hope our collective and national dialogue would at some point move past hand wringing and finger pointing. I think the only thing to be salvaged from this situation is a meaningful national dialogue on how to eliminate this problem. But to split hairs over this, I don't know. I don't know how productive our dialogue is at this point. Even those that bicker would have to, i hope, agree that this is simply a terrible, terrible thing. We have scores of damaged children and I pray that they someone can defy the typical and simply find a way to move past this old fool diddling them. Instead of ranking molestation cases though, and instead of wearing stupid blue ribbons and having moments of silence(to celebrate years of silence), we should focus on the only societial salvation of ALL victims of molesting; creating a means to bring permanent light into this darkness. And to that end, about what we can do, a thought. In this technological age, maybe we need to offer kids more in the way of having a safe way to report any and all abuse. Many have phones, offer a texing means, or if not, an email means of simply maybe giving them a way to report a potentially embarassing problem(embarassing to them). Of course, someone needs to monitor this new technology. Fund it Penn State.

I don't think anyone is minimizing what happened at the Citadel. I hope they put that guy under the jailhouse. What people are doing is reacting to the ridiculous claim that this is the same as what happened at PSU as far as the college goes. And it just isn't.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

For Penn State "supporters" to try to bring up Citadel as a means of defense is kind of strange. But for people to minimize the Citadel thing in light of Penn State is losing sight of this.One kid, one time, is an unacceptably high amount. I don't know how we'll get past this, as a society, but there is no such thing as "better" in this discussion. I know Citadel probably prides itself on discipline and all that crap, and comes from a similar elitist place that other institutions like the Catholic church came from which makes their certainly more ironic and likely uglier due to the level of trust. But any way this goes down is awful. I would hope our collective and national dialogue would at some point move past hand wringing and finger pointing. I think the only thing to be salvaged from this situation is a meaningful national dialogue on how to eliminate this problem. But to split hairs over this, I don't know. I don't know how productive our dialogue is at this point. Even those that bicker would have to, i hope, agree that this is simply a terrible, terrible thing. We have scores of damaged children and I pray that they someone can defy the typical and simply find a way to move past this old fool diddling them. Instead of ranking molestation cases though, and instead of wearing stupid blue ribbons and having moments of silence(to celebrate years of silence), we should focus on the only societial salvation of ALL victims of molesting; creating a means to bring permanent light into this darkness. And to that end, about what we can do, a thought. In this technological age, maybe we need to offer kids more in the way of having a safe way to report any and all abuse. Many have phones, offer a texing means, or if not, an email means of simply maybe giving them a way to report a potentially embarassing problem(embarassing to them). Of course, someone needs to monitor this new technology. Fund it Penn State.

I don't think anyone is minimizing what happened at the Citadel. I hope they put that guy under the jailhouse. What people are doing is reacting to the ridiculous claim that this is the same as what happened at PSU as far as the college goes. And it just isn't.

Not the same. Not completely different.It may be apples and oranges, but it isn't apples and gyroscopes.There are some points of similarity. It shouldn't be considered a "defense" to what happened at PSU and I don't think anyone was proferring it as such. But it isn't unrelatable. To say as much is as naive as it is for anyone to say the situations are identical.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Link

The voicemail was left by a buddy from his playing days back at Brown University.

“He made a reference to the Sandusky thing,” Matt Paknis says. “I didn’t know what he was talking about, but it sounded weird.”

The Sandusky thing. By now, America knows it all too well. The Sandusky thing is the indictment of former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky on 40 counts of sexual abuse against eight children, an indictment that already has led to the ousters of university president Graham Spanier and legendary coach Joe Paterno, even though neither has been charged with a crime; to the indefinite leave imposed upon assistant coach and potential star witness Mike McQueary; and to unrest among students on the school's campus.

Sandusky has pleaded innocent to the charges. Paterno released a statement over the weekend, through his son Jay, that he would not have further comment on the situation.

When Paknis, 49, started investigating the Sandusky thing on the Internet, it hit especially close to home.

In two ways: He is a childhood victim of sexual abuse, and a former assistant coach at Penn State, working on the same staff as Sandusky and McQueary under Paterno.

“I was up until 2 in the morning, getting more and more enraged,” says Paknis, a Massachusetts resident. “But, on the other hand, it made some sense to me.”

Paknis is a management and leadership consultant for high-end companies and enterprises, and his unique perspective has inspired him to speak out not only about sexual abuse but also about the abuse and misuse of power at the highest levels of the university and athletic program, which he blames for allowing an abuser to freely operate.

He has done so on a blog entitled “Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.”

“I’m just tired of all these little fiefdoms popping up everywhere, and people hiding in the back office, surrounded by all their henchmen, and doing the wrong things,” Paknis told NBCSports.com. “It’s got to stop. Someone has to step up. I can’t sit back. I’m doing this to help people.”

It should be made clear that Paknis did not witness any sexual abuse while at Penn State as a graduate assistant coach in 1987 and 1988, before leaving to pursue a master's degree in architecture at the University of Rhode Island. He did, however, see some things that made him queasy, especially in light of his own background, and especially when it came to Sandusky.

“He was always grabbing the players,” Paknis says. “He would get in their space, lean up right against them. I’d also been taught you don’t touch anyone unless you are teaching a technique. Boundaries were clearly an issue. It made me feel awkward, the way he would grab or pinch them.”

That wasn’t all that made him uncomfortable during his short Penn State tenure, which followed a successful playing career on a three-time undefeated state championship high school team before starting at Brown.

Paknis found it “bizarre” that Penn State coaches all showered in the same space, behind a clear Plexiglas perimeter.

“They would talk about plays," he said. "I thought that was maybe old-school or something, so I mentioned that to coaches at other places, and they never did that. That was not for me.”

Paknis also was unnerved by some of his interaction with Sandusky, even though none of it was sexual in nature. They didn’t spend much time together, but they coached different sides of the ball. Still, Paknis recalls that “he would repeatedly come close to me, and say that he hated Joe. He was never unpleasant to me, but I could figure out where that was coming from, so I would back off. I didn’t want to get into it.”

That doesn’t mean Paknis was a fan of Paterno’s, either.

Penn State lockers were arranged alphabetically, so Paterno and Paknis were next to each other. In reality, however, they were worlds apart. Paterno had just won the national championship, and was the reigning "Sports Illustrated" Sportsman of the Year.

“I was youngest guy on the staff, four years younger than McQueary was,” Paknis says. “I was the lowest man on the totem pole.”

At Penn State, he valued his classes, admired much of the staff, liked and respected many of the players.

Paknis didn’t think much of the Penn State power structure, or the man at the top, who “wouldn’t give you time of day unless you were on his level, or have any interaction with you without it serving him.” He saw a system that served as a “kingdom,” designed to serve a single person, without checks or balances. He saw a coach who had been able to produce a constructive output on the field, but “underneath, optimized fear.”

And he saw a community that bought so completely into the image that “he does things the right way,” that his way was rarely questioned.

“Joe is perceived to be a father figure or grandfather figure, and that’s a very hard thing for people to get to that realization, that your dad is bad,” Paknis says.

That’s why Paknis isn’t surprised that many former players have spoken out in sympathy toward Paterno since his firing last Wednesday, referencing all the good work he has done for the program and those who have gone through it: “Their whole image is locked into that. That is the way they define themselves. To let go of that, it’s very difficult.”

That’s also why Paknis isn’t surprised that many Penn State students have rallied to Paterno’s defense as well, even doing so with violence and vandalism:

“I think the students are confused," he says. "They had to act out. They were probably acting out in anger. I’d like to think I wouldn’t have acted that way, that I would have sat back and said, ‘Wow, if he’s getting removed, there’s got to be real substance here.’”

Paknis believes that Paterno followed “what was his MO for all those years,” and that “when it was time to step up and protect the kids, he protected himself.” He also believes that the truth is even worse than what has been reported.

“We know publicly now that he was aware of this when McQueary went to him,” Paknis says.

That, according to the grand jury indictment, was 2002, after McQueary allegedly saw Sandusky raping a 10-year-old boy in a Penn State shower.

Paknis thinks Paterno knew something earlier even than 1999, when Sandusky resigned, one year after one boy — Victim 6 in the indictment — reported an incident to his mother, and it was investigated by university police and the district attorney.

That’s because Paknis came to this simple conclusion during his two years in Happy Valley, a conclusion that doesn’t change after Paterno aged well past the point of the average working person:

“Joe knows everything.”

What Paterno can’t know is the pain that Paknis experienced as a child, the pain that makes these news events feel so personal.

“That’s what kept me up, because I got triggered,” Paknis says. “I figured I had most of my feelings had gone. But we all have a lot of compartments.”

He started cursing Sandusky, and anyone involved. He saw himself.

“He picked on kids who didn’t have a support structure,” Paknis says of Sandusky, who founded the Second Mile charity for at-risk kids only to allegedly prey upon them. “Kids who didn’t have the structure in place to make them feel whole and good.”

As a boy in Madison, N.J., Paknis experienced a family in crisis. His father was around, but not supportive. His mother was dying of cancer.

A male neighbor took advantage, grooming him, then sexually abusing him.

Paknis was 11. He said nothing, knowing that his family respected the neighbor, and believing he wouldn’t be believed. His struggles in school suggested something was wrong, however, so his mother sent him to counseling. Paknis felt comfortable with the counselor and eventually shared his secret.

He never shared it with his mother, who died before he graduated high school. The abuse allegation never got escalated to the legal authorities. His abuser never got exposed, so the loop never got closed, though Paknis was able to confront, threaten and stop him after growing to nearly 200 pounds as an eighth-grader.

“I don’t know what happened to him,” Paknis said. “I pray he did not go on to prey on other people. I’m pretty sure he had other issues. I don’t think he lasted too long.”

Paknis persevered. He pushed forward. He tried to put it behind him, with sports playing a role. But, after his mother passed, he started experiencing chronic sleep disruption. That went on for years until, finally, in 1996, after the birth of he and his wife’s second of three children, he decided he needed more help.

Paknis has been under professional care for the 15 years since. And he has come forward all the way, something he wasn’t ready to do in 1999, when he wrote a letter to his hometown newspaper in response to a Sports Illustrated story about sexual abuse in youth sports — in that letter, he shared the role of sports in “saving his life” without sharing the specific abuse history.

As a consequence of counseling, Paknis says he is a safe place now, a place where he feels free to talk.

Where he feels he can help, even if it requires public speaking.

That’s because he knows that others aren’t.

That’s one of the reasons Paknis is upset about the reaction of some at Penn State to this crisis, and their focus on Paterno as a victim rather than on the kids.

“It will not make it easier,” he says. “Not at all. If survivors are in there, they will just blame themselves more.”

He saves no sympathy for anyone but them.

Not for Sandusky.

Not for anyone in the Penn State power structure top to bottom, even if that means clearing out people Paknis liked, like Tom Bradley, who was promoted to head coach to replace Paterno.

“The first thing you’ve got to do is you’ve got to look at the situation honestly,” Paknis says. “Then you have to separate reality from distortions, or your opinions from facts. Someone has to go in there with a lot of credibility, and start putting the mirror up: This is really what was happening, and the behaviors that were really the result of those type of falsehoods and distortions. How do we bring the world back on that kind of axis, so our behaviors and actions are really reflecting the truth? What kind of checks and balances do we have to put in place so no one gets that type of power again? It’s just a culture. You’ve got to clear it. "

Paknis saves no sympathy for McQueary, who is on indefinite leave and reportedly has received threats. And who, Paknis notes, was promoted within a couple of years of his alleged report to Paterno rather than police.

“I hate to throw stones, because I wasn’t there,” Paknis says. “I would like to like think I would have controlled my rage enough not to kill Jerry. But I would have responded in a physical way, with my main objective to protect the young boy. Taken him to police, and left Jerry incapacitated.”

And certainly, he saves none for Paterno, whom he calls a “spin doctor” who believed too much of his own hype.

“It’s sort of an empty reaction,” Paknis says. “Almost like a pitiful reaction. I wish (his ouster) had happened 10 years ago when he first knew about it. I don’t know how much longer he’s going to be here. If it is true, I would have enjoyed seeing him receive a minor, tiny fraction of the pain that was felt by these kids. And that would be plenty. You can add all the infractions in the history of the NCAA, and it wouldn’t add up to the loss of all these boys’ souls.”

 

[NCCommish]

For Penn State "supporters" to try to bring up Citadel as a means of defense is kind of strange.

But for people to minimize the Citadel thing in light of Penn State is losing sight of this.

One kid, one time, is an unacceptably high amount. I don't know how we'll get past this, as a society, but there is no such thing as "better" in this discussion. I know Citadel probably prides itself on discipline and all that crap, and comes from a similar elitist place that other institutions like the Catholic church came from which makes their certainly more ironic and likely uglier due to the level of trust. But any way this goes down is awful. I would hope our collective and national dialogue would at some point move past hand wringing and finger pointing. I think the only thing to be salvaged from this situation is a meaningful national dialogue on how to eliminate this problem.

But to split hairs over this, I don't know. I don't know how productive our dialogue is at this point. Even those that bicker would have to, i hope, agree that this is simply a terrible, terrible thing. We have scores of damaged children and I pray that they someone can defy the typical and simply find a way to move past this old fool diddling them. Instead of ranking molestation cases though, and instead of wearing stupid blue ribbons and having moments of silence(to celebrate years of silence), we should focus on the only societial salvation of ALL victims of molesting; creating a means to bring permanent light into this darkness.

And to that end, about what we can do, a thought. In this technological age, maybe we need to offer kids more in the way of having a safe way to report any and all abuse. Many have phones, offer a texing means, or if not, an email means of simply maybe giving them a way to report a potentially embarassing problem(embarassing to them). Of course, someone needs to monitor this new technology. Fund it Penn State.

I don't think anyone is minimizing what happened at the Citadel. I hope they put that guy under the jailhouse. What people are doing is reacting to the ridiculous claim that this is the same as what happened at PSU as far as the college goes. And it just isn't.

Not the same. Not completely different.It may be apples and oranges, but it isn't apples and gyroscopes.

There are some points of similarity. It shouldn't be considered a "defense" to what happened at PSU and I don't think anyone was proferring it as such. But it isn't unrelatable. To say as much is as naive as it is for anyone to say the situations are identical.

Well that's exactly how it comes off. More so with other posters than yourself. But it smells of see it isn't just us!

 

[Smack Tripper]

For Penn State "supporters" to try to bring up Citadel as a means of defense is kind of strange.

But for people to minimize the Citadel thing in light of Penn State is losing sight of this.

One kid, one time, is an unacceptably high amount. I don't know how we'll get past this, as a society, but there is no such thing as "better" in this discussion. I know Citadel probably prides itself on discipline and all that crap, and comes from a similar elitist place that other institutions like the Catholic church came from which makes their certainly more ironic and likely uglier due to the level of trust. But any way this goes down is awful. I would hope our collective and national dialogue would at some point move past hand wringing and finger pointing. I think the only thing to be salvaged from this situation is a meaningful national dialogue on how to eliminate this problem.

But to split hairs over this, I don't know. I don't know how productive our dialogue is at this point. Even those that bicker would have to, i hope, agree that this is simply a terrible, terrible thing. We have scores of damaged children and I pray that they someone can defy the typical and simply find a way to move past this old fool diddling them. Instead of ranking molestation cases though, and instead of wearing stupid blue ribbons and having moments of silence(to celebrate years of silence), we should focus on the only societial salvation of ALL victims of molesting; creating a means to bring permanent light into this darkness.

And to that end, about what we can do, a thought. In this technological age, maybe we need to offer kids more in the way of having a safe way to report any and all abuse. Many have phones, offer a texing means, or if not, an email means of simply maybe giving them a way to report a potentially embarassing problem(embarassing to them). Of course, someone needs to monitor this new technology. Fund it Penn State.

Agreed.I just haven't seen anyone trying to minimize the Citadel situation. Just pointing out that, other than the fact that it involves sexual abuse, the situations are apples and oranges.

Unfortunately to the victims, they're not. And it also speaks to a systemic silence about the inconvenient truth of revelation, which as I said I think plagues many of these situations. Due to the horrorific nature of the act itself, people don't want to face it, they don't want to be stained by it, either personally or as administration and/or management. And the obvious irony is, look how much institutoins look when this sort of thing finds daylight, which I'd like to say it always does but who knows how true that is.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Pretty sure Parrothead is related to Sandusky or Paterno.

I've ignored you for 89 pages- but please point me to the post where I defended Paterno or Sandusky (you kidding me?? ).. otherwise, ####

You come across as a complete apologist for child rape enablers. Everyone is calling you "creepy" and "jackhole" and saying you are way off base. But you're right, it is everyone but you.

 

[CrossEyed]

For Penn State "supporters" to try to bring up Citadel as a means of defense is kind of strange.

But for people to minimize the Citadel thing in light of Penn State is losing sight of this.

One kid, one time, is an unacceptably high amount. I don't know how we'll get past this, as a society, but there is no such thing as "better" in this discussion. I know Citadel probably prides itself on discipline and all that crap, and comes from a similar elitist place that other institutions like the Catholic church came from which makes their certainly more ironic and likely uglier due to the level of trust. But any way this goes down is awful. I would hope our collective and national dialogue would at some point move past hand wringing and finger pointing. I think the only thing to be salvaged from this situation is a meaningful national dialogue on how to eliminate this problem.

But to split hairs over this, I don't know. I don't know how productive our dialogue is at this point. Even those that bicker would have to, i hope, agree that this is simply a terrible, terrible thing. We have scores of damaged children and I pray that they someone can defy the typical and simply find a way to move past this old fool diddling them. Instead of ranking molestation cases though, and instead of wearing stupid blue ribbons and having moments of silence(to celebrate years of silence), we should focus on the only societial salvation of ALL victims of molesting; creating a means to bring permanent light into this darkness.

And to that end, about what we can do, a thought. In this technological age, maybe we need to offer kids more in the way of having a safe way to report any and all abuse. Many have phones, offer a texing means, or if not, an email means of simply maybe giving them a way to report a potentially embarassing problem(embarassing to them). Of course, someone needs to monitor this new technology. Fund it Penn State.

Agreed.I just haven't seen anyone trying to minimize the Citadel situation. Just pointing out that, other than the fact that it involves sexual abuse, the situations are apples and oranges.

Unfortunately to the victims, they're not. And it also speaks to a systemic silence about the inconvenient truth of revelation, which as I said I think plagues many of these situations. Due to the horrorific nature of the act itself, people don't want to face it, they don't want to be stained by it, either personally or as administration and/or management. And the obvious irony is, look how much institutoins look when this sort of thing finds daylight, which I'd like to say it always does but who knows how true that is.

Did you ignore the phrase right before what you bolded in my post?

 

[Parrothead]

Pretty sure Parrothead is related to Sandusky or Paterno.

I've ignored you for 89 pages- but please point me to the post where I defended Paterno or Sandusky (you kidding me?? ).. otherwise, ####

You come across as a complete apologist for child rape enablers. Everyone is calling you "creepy" and "jackhole" and saying you are way off base. But you're right, it is everyone but you.

again- prove it = where did I defend Paterno or Sandusky? Give me a break.. read the thread