SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
Let's Go Nebraska!
Yeah, I really can't be unbiased as I've never liked PSU, but this is where I am. Paterno was a great coach, but he failed as a man. I really don't want to hear the praises of Joe Paterno at this point in time.For the players I want them to win. but there is a part of me that wants them to get destroyed because I just have this feeling we are going to see lots of "this win is for Joe" garbage.'proninja said:Seems odd, but I'm kind of pulling for the kids on the PSU football team today. None of this is their fault.
Yeah, I really can't be unbiased as I've never liked PSU, but this is where I am. Paterno was a great coach, but he failed as a man. I really don't want to hear the praises of Joe Paterno at this point in time.For the players I want them to win. but there is a part of me that wants them to get destroyed because I just have this feeling we are going to see lots of "this win is for Joe" garbage.'proninja said:Seems odd, but I'm kind of pulling for the kids on the PSU football team today. None of this is their fault.
To compare JoePa's football program to almost anything else in a college setting is beyond naive.Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
You're like a deer caught in the headlights.To compare JoePa's football program to almost anything else in a college setting is beyond naive.Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
The fans and most especially the players are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Joe's been THE shining beacon for them for as long as they've either been at or wanted to go to PSU. I would imagine that most of the players have fatherly feelings for Joe and feel as if they owe their college and future success in some large part to him and his teaching and, up til this week, his integrity. It couldn't be at a worse time either as the last home game coming on the heels of the sheer joy of winning the game that put Paterno at #1 in wins. Like I said before, I am hesitant to call the players and fans victims, because of the gigantic gap between their circumstances and the abused kids, but these PSU players are absolutely victims in this and they've gotta be emotional wrecks. If they don't know what to do and vaccilate between Win it for Joe and Win it for the Kids, I just can't blame them.Yeah, I really can't be unbiased as I've never liked PSU, but this is where I am. Paterno was a great coach, but he failed as a man. I really don't want to hear the praises of Joe Paterno at this point in time.For the players I want them to win. but there is a part of me that wants them to get destroyed because I just have this feeling we are going to see lots of "this win is for Joe" garbage.'proninja said:Seems odd, but I'm kind of pulling for the kids on the PSU football team today. None of this is their fault.
And you're still in mx territory. Find one single example of anything similar. With a dept head who's been there for 60+ years, controlling a massive moneymaking dept and massive non-athlete recruiting impact, with the ability to tell the BoT to go pound sand when they want him to retire, who has dept members that've been with him for 30+ years, and whose downfall encompasses a dean and the university's president. I won't be holding my breath.You're like a deer caught in the headlights.To compare JoePa's football program to almost anything else in a college setting is beyond naive.Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
So? Yes it is possible it could have happened somewhere else. What does that prove? If it happens somewhere else people should still have the same reaction. Another religion could have covered up abuse and enabled pedophiles, but the Catholic Church did do it so they had to pay the price. The argument that it is possible it could have happened with the Baptist church for example doesn't change anything.The "level of this situation" was created because of where it happened and who was involved. But that does not prove that a similar situation could not happen elsewhere on a college campus.You using the word "routinely" and comparing this situation to other normal campus cover ups really makes it look like you haven't fully embraced the level of this situation.Universities routinely cover up crimes on campus one way or anotherCover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
Who said it changed anything?So? Yes it is possible it could have happened somewhere else. What does that prove? If it happens somewhere else people should still have the same reaction. Another religion could have covered up abuse and enabled pedophiles, but the Catholic Church did do it so they had to pay the price. The argument that it is possible it could have happened with the Baptist church for example doesn't change anything.The "level of this situation" was created because of where it happened and who was involved. But that does not prove that a similar situation could not happen elsewhere on a college campus.You using the word "routinely" and comparing this situation to other normal campus cover ups really makes it look like you haven't fully embraced the level of this situation.Universities routinely cover up crimes on campus one way or anotherCover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
When they shut down football at PSU it is going to be because of people like that. The whole campus needs to a priority reboot.Alright, the God Bless You Joe Pa sign pisses me off a bit.
For the Kids is a slogan attached to Penn State's THON program, which raises money for kids with cancer.Looks like there was a group of students with their chests painted "For the kids", on college gameday. It looks damn cold there.
Why?Find one single example of anything similar.
So you are arguing a point that you admit is meaningless?Who said it changed anything?So? Yes it is possible it could have happened somewhere else. What does that prove? If it happens somewhere else people should still have the same reaction. Another religion could have covered up abuse and enabled pedophiles, but the Catholic Church did do it so they had to pay the price. The argument that it is possible it could have happened with the Baptist church for example doesn't change anything.The "level of this situation" was created because of where it happened and who was involved. But that does not prove that a similar situation could not happen elsewhere on a college campus.You using the word "routinely" and comparing this situation to other normal campus cover ups really makes it look like you haven't fully embraced the level of this situation.Universities routinely cover up crimes on campus one way or anotherCover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
This isn't a "school setting" with respect to child abuse. If Penn State was a middle school, this is a much different story.I was dumbfounded to find out that people who work in a school setting didn't have a legal obligation to report even suspected abuse. As a healthcare worker I have always been told that it is my legal duty to report even suspected abuse to the proper authority. Whether that be DHS, or the police. If you report abuse the police still will have to their due diligence and not just rush in and arrest people. I agree the accusations of child abuse/rape are very damaging and even being acquitted can still never erase the stain of people thinking that you are a child rapist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trialI get that suspecting child abuse can be handled through proper channels. For one thing, the accusation alone can be damning, so it's better to have a quiet investigation before ruining lives. What I don't get is why witnessing a crime in action falls under the same rules. It's absurd to think that when witnessing a child getting raped, your only legal obligation is to report out to your superior.Absolutely. Should be in every state.Well if nothing else comes out of this nightmare, maybe Pennsylvania and other states look to change the laws that make it mandatory to report to police child abuse.
To back up what you've been saying.Why?Find one single example of anything similar.
Why do I need a specific example to back up what I'm saying?To back up what you've been saying.Why?Find one single example of anything similar.
WTH are you talking about?So you are arguing a point that you admit is meaningless?Who said it changed anything?So? Yes it is possible it could have happened somewhere else. What does that prove? If it happens somewhere else people should still have the same reaction. Another religion could have covered up abuse and enabled pedophiles, but the Catholic Church did do it so they had to pay the price. The argument that it is possible it could have happened with the Baptist church for example doesn't change anything.The "level of this situation" was created because of where it happened and who was involved. But that does not prove that a similar situation could not happen elsewhere on a college campus.You using the word "routinely" and comparing this situation to other normal campus cover ups really makes it look like you haven't fully embraced the level of this situation.Universities routinely cover up crimes on campus one way or anotherCover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive.You're pretty much in mx territory with your terrible attempt at comparing an English Dept to Joe Pa's football program.
'proninja said:People Christo, if you're going to argue, could you not do it with stupid vague questions that are just annoying?
To back up what you've been saying.Why do I need a specific example to back up what I'm saying?To back up what you've been saying.Why?Find one single example of anything similar.
You have no clue what I've been saying, do you?To back up what you've been saying.Why do I need a specific example to back up what I'm saying?To back up what you've been saying.Why?Find one single example of anything similar.
Apparently I don't either. I beginning to question if you have any idea what you have been saying.You have no clue what I've been saying, do you?To back up what you've been saying.Why do I need a specific example to back up what I'm saying?To back up what you've been saying.Why?Find one single example of anything similar.
Yes I do. Answering a bunch of questions with vague questions to avoid answering questions. Gotcha. Dunno why I even bothered quite frankly.You have no clue what I've been saying, do you?To back up what you've been saying.Why do I need a specific example to back up what I'm saying?To back up what you've been saying.Why?Find one single example of anything similar.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Obviously something got lost at some point.Who's on first?
if it's any consolation, I had a very similar meaningless exchange yesterday. Or maybe it was the day before.Apparently I don't either. I beginning to question if you have any idea what you have been saying.
Yeah, I'm amazed that people don't understand the difference between what he did and what a man of integrity should have done. Even Frano Harris and Jack Ham have been critical of PSU for the firing.Paterno preached winning with honor, integrity, going above and beyond what you have to do. And yet when he was faced with a situation in his life where he had the chance to put into action all of the rhetoric, he chose instead to bury his head and protect his football program. If that isn't hypocrisy, I don't know what is.Alright, the God Bless You Joe Pa sign pisses me off a bit.
Now I really hope they lose.So allegedly if PSU wins, the team seniors are going to walk the game ball to JoePa's house? That's sweet.
It's a non-story, but it's exactly the kind of non-story that ESPN likes to turn into a story.So allegedly if PSU wins, the team seniors are going to walk the game ball to JoePa's house? That's sweet.
I have no problem with that statement. My issue is with the people who think that it could only happen in that specific environment.Christo: "Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive."
Obviously, it hypothetically could happen elsewhere but it does seem there are key characteristics of the environment at Penn State that helped make it more possible there.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.Now I really hope they lose.So allegedly if PSU wins, the team seniors are going to walk the game ball to JoePa's house? That's sweet.
I think that's fair. I also think that the type of environment necessary to allow something like this to happen (the entire scenario, not just the abuse) probably only exists at a handful of universities.I have no problem with that statement. My issue is with the people who think that it could only happen in that specific environment.Christo: "Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive."
Obviously, it hypothetically could happen elsewhere but it does seem there are key characteristics of the environment at Penn State that helped make it more possible there.
I don't think it's nearly that restrictive.I think that's fair. I also think that the type of environment necessary to allow something like this to happen (the entire scenario, not just the abuse) probably only exists at a handful of universities.I have no problem with that statement. My issue is with the people who think that it could only happen in that specific environment.Christo: "Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive."
Obviously, it hypothetically could happen elsewhere but it does seem there are key characteristics of the environment at Penn State that helped make it more possible there.
I do. OK, maybe "handful" isn't the right word. But I think it requires at least an isolated setting, a clean reputation, and a coach who has been there long enough to have enough pull to override the decisions of his "superiors".I don't think it's nearly that restrictive.I think that's fair. I also think that the type of environment necessary to allow something like this to happen (the entire scenario, not just the abuse) probably only exists at a handful of universities.I have no problem with that statement. My issue is with the people who think that it could only happen in that specific environment.Christo: "Cover ups happen all the time in all sorts of organizations. To think something like this could only happen in "JoPa's football program" is naive."
Obviously, it hypothetically could happen elsewhere but it does seem there are key characteristics of the environment at Penn State that helped make it more possible there.
273.Crosseyes has 272 posts in this thread.
No, I think that's OK. For the seniors, it brings closure to their football relationship with Joe Pa. They - like everyone else - will need a lot of time to sort all of this out in their hearts and minds. These kids went to PSU to play football. Let's let them focus in on that for a few hours.I believe the pre-game events - the slow walk onto the field, the gathering with the Nebraska players, the time of silence - helped to frame the game in the appropriate context. If PSU wins, those young men can have some time with Paterno. I'm not going to judge them for that.Now I really hope they lose.So allegedly if PSU wins, the team seniors are going to walk the game ball to JoePa's house? That's sweet.
I'm not judging the players. I get all that. I'm just sick of the "Paterno was really a great guy" stuff.ETA: 274No, I think that's OK. For the seniors, it brings closure to their football relationship with Joe Pa. They - like everyone else - will need a lot of time to sort all of this out in their hearts and minds. These kids went to PSU to play football. Let's let them focus in on that for a few hours.I believe the pre-game events - the slow walk onto the field, the gathering with the Nebraska players, the time of silence - helped to frame the game in the appropriate context. If PSU wins, those young men can have some time with Paterno. I'm not going to judge them for that.Now I really hope they lose.So allegedly if PSU wins, the team seniors are going to walk the game ball to JoePa's house? That's sweet.
I'd rather see the players and fans worry more about the victims than the old man that covered up their rape. That's just me though.No, I think that's OK. For the seniors, it brings closure to their football relationship with Joe Pa. They - like everyone else - will need a lot of time to sort all of this out in their hearts and minds. These kids went to PSU to play football. Let's let them focus in on that for a few hours.I believe the pre-game events - the slow walk onto the field, the gathering with the Nebraska players, the time of silence - helped to frame the game in the appropriate context. If PSU wins, those young men can have some time with Paterno. I'm not going to judge them for that.Now I really hope they lose.So allegedly if PSU wins, the team seniors are going to walk the game ball to JoePa's house? That's sweet.
thats what turned me. I know joepa has done a lot of good, a lot. But to preach about integrity and then yourself not follow it, tough to be on his side.Yeah, I'm amazed that people don't understand the difference between what he did and what a man of integrity should have done. Even Frano Harris and Jack Ham have been critical of PSU for the firing.Paterno preached winning with honor, integrity, going above and beyond what you have to do. And yet when he was faced with a situation in his life where he had the chance to put into action all of the rhetoric, he chose instead to bury his head and protect his football program. If that isn't hypocrisy, I don't know what is.Alright, the God Bless You Joe Pa sign pisses me off a bit.
I don't think that's much of a possibility. Now that there's been a cooling off period I expect the PSU fans to be civil unless they're rudely provoked by insensitive Nebraska fans.'ConstruxBoy said:I'm hoping Penn State wins today so the ####### students don't mistreat the Nebraska fans or riot after the game. Not looking good though.
yeah, we touched on this earlier.some discussion in here: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11316/1189464-455.stmSo I am hearing reports that the general counsel for Penn State in 1998 when they were dealing with the first reported incident was also the general counsel for Second Mile at the time. Anyone think that is going to be a point of discussion moving forward? I bet it is.
Attorney general rebuts claim by attorney that Penn State grand jury report was flawed
Saturday, November 12, 2011
By Jon Schmitz, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
A spokesman for the state attorney general's office has rebutted a lawyer's claim that part of the presentment in the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse case was in error.
Wendell Courtney, partner in the State College firm McQuaide Blasko, said on Wednesday that the grand jury falsely asserted that he represented both Penn State and Mr. Sandusky's nonprofit, The Second Mile, in 1998, when a sex abuse investigation involving Mr. Sandusky occurred at the university.
He said he did not begin to represent The Second Mile until early 2009 and withdrew as the organization's counsel on Monday, after two top Penn State officials were charged with perjury in connection with allegations that Mr. Sandusky sexually abused eight children.
Nils Frederiksen, spokesman for state Attorney General Linda Kelly, said, "It's clear from the findings of the grand jury that Mr. Courtney had direct dealings with both Penn State and The Second Mile and he had knowledge and was aware of the 1998 incident.
"The grand jury findings are based on evidence and testimony," he said. "There's no dispute he had interaction with both [Penn State and The Second Mile]. If he wants to engage in semantics, so be it."
Annual reports prepared by The Second Mile show that Mr. Courtney and his wife, Linette, have been annual donors of $1,000 to $1,999 to the organization going back at least to 2005 (except for 2008, when they gave $500 to $999), and are part of the Arthur C. and Evelyn M. Sandusky Society, whose members have pledged part of their estates to The Second Mile.
Linette Courtney also served on the organization's state board of directors from 2005 to 2008. Reports for years prior to 2005 were not available.
Mr. Sandusky founded the charitable organization in the 1970s, and it has worked since then with troubled youth. The district attorney at the time of the 1998 investigation decided not to prosecute, and the investigation was closed.
Officials of The Second Mile have acknowledged that they knew about sex abuse allegations against Mr. Sandusky as far back as 2002 but did not remove him from dealing with children until 2008.
Mr. Courtney, asked if he informed anyone at the agency of the 1998 investigation, said "absolutely not. Under no circumstances would I have done that."
Because he worked as counsel for Penn State at the time, providing the information to The Second Mile would have been a breach of professional ethics, he said.